hour on ayman, new details on that fears mike pence's team have on the safety before the insurrection. i will speak to congresswoman jackie speier in a moment. plus, the house republican that has been forced to quit over his support for gun control in this country. then, reefer madness, the gop will blame anything and everyone but guns for our mass shooting epidemic. i am ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. we begin this hour with a stunning report from the new york times about the security risk to vice president mike pence ahead of the capital insurrection. back on january 5th of 2021, pence then chief of staff delivered an urgent warning to the head of the security detail, saying in part, quote, that the

president was going to turn publicly against the vice president, and there could be a security risk to mr. pence because of the. the vice president team feared that the president of united states posed a legitimate threat to him, believe it or not. in the very next day, sure enough, the trump mob stormed the capitol, chanting, hang mike pence. more from the report, quote, mike meadows, the white house chief of staff, is reported to have told colleagues that mr. trump said that perhaps mr. pence should have been hanged. we now know that the january six committee is investigating this reporting. they are also looking into a newly-revealed plan to overturn the 2020 election. in a recent court filing, we learned of a memo approach up attorney, john eastman, that sketched out a plan for mike pence to hold out the certification of the victory, overturning the election. a judge memo said that it is potential criminal acts committed by donald trump and john eastman.

against the backdrop of all these new details, a shift is taking place within the republican party. they're in the 2020 election, as we all know, republicans claim that voter fraud was happening everywhere you look, all the time. now, as this year's primary unfold, we are seeing a very different reaction to election results. suddenly, everything is fine, there is no fraud anymore. you see, when it is republican races on the line, all the votes are somehow magically legitimate. curious how they have changed their tune in such a short time. joining me now is david jolly, an msnbc political analyst and national chairman of the conservative movement, molly jong-fast, it contributing writer for the atlantic and author -- and congresswoman jackie speier of california is going to be joining us in a little bit. sorry, congressman, you have

join us. i apologize, i thought that we would hit you shortly. apologies for that. let me start with you, congresswoman and get your reaction to all of these developments this week, especially with this headline, both about the january six committee in terms of what it is investigating, as well as the developments with a political reporting that the republican party is putting into motion, certain plants to be able to effectively overturn the elections. >> i think this week is going to be one of the most dramatic weeks in congressional history. i think that the committee has worked diligently, has interviewed over 8000 people and while some information has tripled out, i think it is going to be very expository as to what actually happened on january six. those of us that we're in the chamber, we are going to be watching very closely. it was an attempted coup.

there is no question about it. we are going to see the facts the back that up. >> what do you make about the new york times reporting about the threat that mike pence, apparently his chief of staff at the time mark short, felt the need to give to security detail? >> i think that shows more evidence that donald trump was willing to do anything, and he was pressuring his vice president to commit a crime because he did not have the authority to overturn the election or send it back to the states. he resisted that, and it was becoming very clear to his chief of staff that his life was in danger. >> on friday, congresswoman, trump white house trade advisor, peter navarro, was indicted for refusing to comply with the january six committee subpoena. later that day, the doj said

that it was not going to prosecute trump chief of staff mark meadows and danced give you know -- what is your reaction to that news, of navarro's indictment? how would you explain the lack of a prosecution of meadows and scavino? >> that is certainly something for the attorney general to respond to, but clearly, mr. navarro had no special relationship with the president, where you could argue attorney-client privilege. mark meadows, indeed, provided rings of emails and text messages to the committee before he stopped doing it. much of that information has been fertile ground for their investigation. i would venture to say that that was part of what was -- again, the attorney general would be the best person to ask about that. >> okay, but the general six committee is in possession of a memo written by a trump attorney that sketched out a plan for mike pence to stop the certification of joe biden's

victory. you had that federal judge who ruled that the memo was evidence of likely felonies by donald trump and john eastman, the attorney, in a criminal effort to overturn the election. do you believe that donald trump could face criminal prosecution for this, or should face criminal prosecution for this? >> ayman, let me put it this way, donald trump should be indicted. donald trump tried to undo this democracy. he used the office of the presidency over and over again for personal gain, and so that his family members. we dodged a real bullet by him losing that election. we would not be living under a democracy today had he been in reinstated as president of the united states. he was a threat to this democracy, continues to be a threat to this democracy. >> we might partially not be living in a democracy at the

november for republicans, who political suggested, will get their way with plans that they are trying to place poll workers, poll watchers in an attempt to evade the system and create chaos and confusion. i am curious about your reaction to what we are seeing play out in realtime. is there something that should be done right now to all of these indications that we are seeing of republicans trying to plan to possibly do every ducks of 2020, but this time smarter and on a state level with the intention of overturning future elections? >> i think the danger there, of course, is getting individuals into positions where they can basically say, this election is not going to be counted, or as in some states now where they do not want to use voting machines. because as we all know, but the machines are always much more accurate than hand counting. we are going to have to be very vigilant. i think efforts by the

republicans to undermine the 2020, 2022 or 2024 elections need to be addressed in the courts. i still believe that the courts are the saving grace here. >> let me switch gears to another topic that has consumed the entire country. that is gun control and gun reform. i wanted to ask you about this before we go. you attended a mom's the man action earlier today ahead of a planned oversight hearing committee to address the growing gun violence epidemic. i believe that is scheduled for next week. realistically speaking, from where you sit in congress, without filibuster reform, is there anything meaningful that congress can do to save lives in this country from gun violence? >> ayman, i really think it will take the american people to move the u.s. senate. there is no question that there

has been a shift, in my mind, by the american people. they are afraid now. they want their lives back. they fear that they are losing their lives to gun violence. 18,000 people have lost their lives to gun violence already this year. we had over 200 mass shootings already this year. it is abnormal. you have to start talking about it as being abnormal. there is no other country on this planet that has the kind of gun deaths associated with it. we have to speak up. now, if in fact this does not become a litmus test for all the senators running for reelection in november, then shame on all of us. it should be the most critical issue whether or not they will stand up for the american people, or stand up for the gun manufacturers and the nra. >> i could not agree with you

more on that. we will see if it is actually an issue come november. it is something that americans care enough about to vote during the midterms. congresswoman jackie speier of california, always a pleasure, thank you for joining us this evening. next, the blue states taken action on gun control. but first, richard louis is here with the headlines. hey, richard. >> hey, some of the stories we are watching this hour, a pile mistakenly restricted airspace over president biden's home over delaware. the fighter jet made contact with that private chain and then escorted the plane out of the airspace. the secret service confirmed that there was no threat to the president or his family. is one of the largest suppliers of baby formula, abbott is saying that they will now restart production at their michigan plant. that plant was shut down in february after the fda found contamination issues which triggered a nationwide shortage of baby formula. a tropical storm blasted through the southern coast of florida on saturday. some areas were hit with

intense flooding. that's summers expected to move east now into the atlantic by sunday morning. stick around, more ayman, with ayman mohyeldin. right after the break. ght after the break. so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty. liberty.♪ to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪ yeah, i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ ♪ yeah, that's all me ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin, that's my new plan ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ keep your skin clearer with skyrizi.

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and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.™ i've lived in san francisco for 20 years. i'm raising my kids here. this city is now less safe for all of us. chesa boudin is failing to hold repeat offenders accountable. he prosecuted zero fentanyl drug dealing cases, even though nearly 500 people have died of overdoses. i'm voting yes on h to recall chesa boudin now. we can't wait one more day when people are dying on our streets. blue state america isn't

waiting for washington to get its act together. new york governor, legislative leaders past the slate of bills this week that will raise the legal age to purchase an air 15 from 18 to 21 and will prohibit the purchase of body armor and restrict the -- last week as that legislation was taking shape, republican congressman chris jacobs whose district includes the buffalo suburbs broke with his party and increase -- federal salt weapons ban. seven days later, jacob has abandoned his reelection campaign. his party, including members of republican leadership condemned his views. they ostracized him from the

republican party, believe or not. let's bring in my saturday night panel. david -- national chairman of the serve america movement. this is an nbc news -- contributing writer for the -- great to have all of you with us. david, i will start with you. your reaction to, as a former republican congressman, kris jacobs, being chased at his party, basically, just for expressing vague support for a federal assault weapons ban. i mean, how did guns in america become this much of a travel issue that the republican party will not even tolerate dissent amongst its ranks. >> well, you can go back to the 90s when the nra and the gun lobby began indoctrinating and entire generation of republicans and republican leaders to bring us where we are today, where congressman cannot step out of that paradigm within the republican party. we saw it after i believe parkland, with brian last, a

relatively young florida member of congress who called for an assault weapons ban, within a week reversed his position. look, i have walked the walk that new york congressman. when i served as a young member i supported a major piece of background check legislation, went farther than many democrats would. i also sponsored the no fly, no by bill which said that if you are on the terror watchlist you can't buy a gun. the interesting thing is that the nra, before i had a voting record, was all in. the moment i started voting and have legislation that i had introduced? they abandoned me. with this new which congressman expressed is that the entire party abandoned him. then, there is nowhere to go because very frankly the democrats already have their candidates who were right on the issue as democrats see it. so, the new york congressman found himself a man without an island, a man with a party. honestly, probably made the right decision to just leave. >> molly, i have to tell you about this moment this week

when i was banging my head against the wall. it was in the aftermath of the uvalde shooting, president biden referring to mitch mcconnell and john cornyn as good faith, quote, rational republicans. working towards real gun control compromise. i probably spent a 20 minutes solidly just paying my head against the wall. does he still think that we are in the 90s here? i mean is there a strategy that i am somehow missing that he thinks that he can get mitch mcconnell and john cornyn on board with any meaningful gun reform legislation in this country? >> well, let's hope that he was playing 15 dimensional chess. he was just hoping to get them along and charm them. >> [laughs] >> which, you know, sometimes he does. i am much more optimistic on the state level. i think that blue states should go and do two guns wet red states have done to abortions. i think that there is a large appetite in the voting base, and i think that people want their democratic leaders to do that. i think that your horry seeing

it in new york, in delaware, indifferent states. so, i think that you're gonna see that more and more. i think that that is probably the way to go. but, you know, it's probably possible that -- i think the stakes are too high. the republicans get nothing from doing anything that isn't just radically partisan. >> yeah, and to that point you have blue states, they are not waiting around for republicans to get on board, or washington for that matter to tackle the gun violence crisis. you've got states like new jersey and california. gavin morris and phil murthy. they are trying to advance gun measures. is this going to be the model for the future of gun reform in this country? i mean is this a hopeful sign after all of this tragedy that these states are not waiting and hopefully get something done? >> well, a man, i think we are fast becoming a country a nation that is polarization inaction. it's gonna depend on where you

live, on whether or not you can access to the gun or access abortion or access a number of other issues. right that people think people have so when i think about the idea that blue states are waiting on this, it really to me just hammer home the idea that what i hear, when i'm out talking to people which is that people don't have faith that the federal government is going to get it right on these issues, when uvalde happen i was in minnesota reporting on the in his first three of george floyd. instantly, what i found was people looking at congress and saying they don't get it right on life or the issues where there's -- it is not going to be a congress or lawmakers that can work together to deliver. as a result, you see these blue states in california, in new york, in new jersey. saying, okay, well we don't know what's gonna end up with this bipartisan bill. but democrats already deemed very moderate. they have to be very moderate in order to get some sort of congeal past. so, yeah, it's not surprising that you see blue states saying,

okay, we're gonna have to make sure that our schools are safer and that our schools will not be a place where 18 year olds can go out and buy a rifle, even though they can't buy a can of beer. >> yeah, it's one of those unsolved mysteries in this country. are you are able to buy in ar-15 but not able to buy a beer, by age. i want to ask you about what you hear about republicans, david, behind doors. listen, i speak to some republicans anecdotally, you certainly know a lot more than i do. but, behind closed doors do they acknowledge that the party line on guns is just bonkers? i, mean to the acknowledge that you can't just be destroyed coney and. >> no. >> with every single, no, not at all? >> no, ayman, they are true believers. understand, the last time we saw moderation on gun policy and republicans was bush 41 leading the camera because the nra began this position of absolution. that is fundamental right as an absolute right. so, today we have republican leaders who do not believe that

guns are the problem. they don't. they absolutely do not believe that guns are the problem, so they will do nothing to address the guns. what we are gonna see come out of blue states ultimately will be the pipeline that creates the cases for federal courts and ultimately the supreme court to make decisions on whether or not someone in a blue state regulations can pass. d.c. heller was a local devastation case in a way, the supreme court has the bruin case out of new york right now regarding the constitutional right to carry. just as we see blue states move towards regulation we are seeing red states more towards relaxing red restrictions on creating this premise of constitutional carry. republicans do not believe that we have a gun problem in the united states, it's why that if that's what informs your politics, you really only have one party to vote for in november. >> yeah, it's the party of guns that also wants to overthrow our elections, i don't know that will very bode well very well for our future generally speaking when you have that cocktail brewing. molly, after uvalde the go-to gop talking point was arm all teachers. after the shooting at the tulsa

medical facility, the hospital there, since francis, they started saying we should arm all doctors. nurses, i'm starting to think by the end of the republican talking point, if you were to basically have a gun everywhere there has been a shooting? we are gonna have priests and preachers and moms and rabbis and doctors and nurses and teachers walking around with guns to basically protect every single place that has been shot in america? >> yeah, the whole thing is, the whole premise is that it's everything but the guns. you blame everything else. i mean, ted cruz blamed doors. right? open doors. they are saying they are gonna -- >> backdoor -- >> right. but there is just anything that they can think of that is just not guns. it's kind of, i, mean they look ridiculous doing it. but, they really think that they can just run out the clock. i, mean the whole goal here is that they know that these mass shootings are, you know, bad. that if the public sentiment is

that they don't like that people are getting killed, children are getting killed, that's cool. so, they are literally just trying to run out the clock now in the hopes that people will forget and that another news cycle will come. so, you're hearing them say every wacky thing they can. they're just throwing anything they can on the wall to see will stick. >> sad, sad strategy in this country. panel, stick around, we've got a lot more to break down. coming up, how the trump administration helped conservative news media push lies about hillary clinton's campaign in 2016. a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose.

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exactly. this week -- yvonne yiu. democrat for controller. acquitted of lying to the fbi in a case brought for trump era special counsel john doe, as we see with team trump, there wasn't a there they're the jury

of four woman told -- it was a waste of time and resources, the legal ethics -- quote, it's hard to understand why it was brought other than to support trump's allegation that the quinton campaign falsely alleged a trump russia connection. bingo! let's be clear here, the intent of this trial was not to get a conviction. it was to push and attack against hillary clinton. as former trump attorney general bill barr said in his own words, and making clear just this week. well he did not -- he crystallized essential role played by the hillary campaign in launching as a dirty trick the whole russia gate collusion narrative. >> what? imagine that. i mean, this is a playbook republicans of lose time again and again, getting parts of the news media to launder their

lies and conspiracies. it also happened a lot with hillary clinton as we saw back in 2015. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right. we put together a benghazi special committee. a select committee. whatever numbers today? her numbers are dropping. why? because she's an trustable. but no one would have known any of that happened not -- >> i give you credit. for that -- >> in the age of trump, the results are irrelevant. what's important is peddling enough lies and innuendos that voters get confused and believe that anything is possible. that is the republican playbook. our panel is back with me, david, let me get your thoughts on this. what did you make of the conservative media reaction to this verdict and that same book that we played there phil bar. i mean, did they get what they wanted which is, they got the acquittal, but they didn't necessarily want the acquittal, but if it is, bill barr's out

there saying that -- they put this narrative, injected this narrative into our body politic? >> i suppose conservative republicans got with a wanted, if their plan for 22 and 24 is to re-litigate the 2016 election and hillary clinton and the russia investigation. what is notable and you cover it perfectly, ayman, is that this case was not actually about whether or not the tech was credible enough to be invested. it was whether or not sussman was able to before that tape as, assess -- someone who should have acknowledged his affiliation with the clinton campaign. which is why i think most legal analysts have suggested that it never should have been brought. but, it was only brought because he was brought into place to essentially carry donald trump's narrative for as long as he could possibly carry it to feed this conservative republican base. it's focused on 2016, not 24, that is their own undoing. >> let's talk about the politics of this, in particular,

one man, donald trump as you can imagine, he wasn't happy with the sussman -- >> i look forward to bill durham's report, that is the one i look forward to. >> what happened to durham? where is durham? >> by the way, where is durham? what happened to durham? where is he? he disappeared? >> it's hard to imagine, i, mean someone waiting so intently on the prosecutors findings is playing fairly here. i mean, didn't trump know from the outset that this durham probe was phony. or did that not necessarily matter to him as long as he can just weave this narrative about his campaign and what happened in 2016 that of politics. >> well, a, man i could also ask that's very same question on a number of false claims that former president trump has made. i mean, i think the -- to meet the goal as somebody who has studied trump who has

obviously covered him for a long time. the goal has always been to have people talking about him. have people having the discussion about whether or not the 2016 campaign and hillary clinton's campaign was wrong and whether or not they should be looked into whether not she should be jailed. but the 2020 election, no matter the fact that clearly it was a fair election, clearly bill barr knows that president trump has lied about a number of things including the fact that he lost in 2020. but, it's the fact that this lie continues to be repeated. as a result of conservatives in the dark web and conspiracy theorists, they can all sort of throw in and have a conversation about this. get people confuse who are not paying attention who maybe don't want to pay attention. want to just believe the lies that former president trump. i think the key here is that the media attention to this and the conversations is i think the goal based on my reporting. but it is something that, of course, former president trump was waiting on the so long and now it turns into an acquittal. the fact that there's a juror

saying that they should be prosecuted at all? i think it underscores just that issue. which is that pottered of it was that it even got to court. that there even was a trial here. >> yeah, molly, listen, i'm old enough to remember when both bill barr and john durham were appointed. we were told, you know, they were serious men who wouldn't play politics. their history showed that they were up to the task of being a political, take on their roles in this important and dignified manner. how much of a hit have their reputations taken since they have become stooges in this donald trump narrative that he has pushed out over the last couple of years? >> yeah, i mean that i think it's pretty clear that bill barr has ruined himself. i mean i think that he, i mean, he was a well respected republican that no longer is a thing that people can be. under maga. so, i mean, i think he has become just another one of trump's people.

i mean, i think what's amazing is that he's already trying to discredit it by saying that it's in d.c., a d.c. jury. like, something wrong with the jury because it's in d.c.. he's also, again, the thing with these people is that the truth doesn't matter. , so they will, you know, it's the spin more than anything. so, the conservative media will run with this, right? say that it means something completely different than it does. you know, they will be qanon on people saying that this is proof that hillary colluded. i mean, it is all timidly when the facts don't matter, the narrative could be anything. >> yeah, david, for me, again, this is an example of the difference between republicans and democrats. because when the mueller probe was taking place, all we heard from republicans was witch hunt, which hunt, witch hunt from everybody. but durham probe has now lasted longer than the mueller probe. it has not even gotten anywhere near the kinds of serious

indictments, charges, convictions, that the mueller probe brought on. how long can durham continue with this probe and could he drag this out indefinitely? because, again, democrats are sitting here watching us. they are being very respectful, they are not calling it a witch hunt. they are not calling it a waste of time. not in the same way that republicans attacked the mueller probe and undermined it for the two years that it ran. >> yeah, look, i think democrats are being very smart. first of all, we largely know that there is no there, there, to this republican conspiracy theory. also, what democrats know, ayman, is that the more republicans talk about hillary clinton and joe biden's stealing of the 2020 election, the russia investigation, also things. they are so far off the message from where they should be in this cycle. right? the republicans in this cycle actually probably have a net edge going into november if they would just focus on the contrast between joe biden's favorite but -- generic republicans. this is a favorable republican

environment for them. but, what we saw going all the way back to the georgia senate, runoffs coming off that 2020 election, what we saw coming out of other races and primaries thus far, it's one republicans re-litigate 16 and 20 and the big lie? they lose. they are on a losing message. so, democrats are right. let republicans have this message. because, it will only weaken their hand going into november. but >> molly, with the gop, i've got to ask. why does everything circle back to hillary clinton? what is their obsession with the clintons? >> you know, i was dealing with that because i was thinking, she's not even gonna run. i mean, there's no world in which he's gonna run. sometimes conservative media will get a story going, like, hillary thinks about running again. she's not running again! there is no world in which she is running again. and there is no world in which she is getting the democratic nomination. but, she has been around a long time. they feel that they have really muddy the waters with her. i don't know if that is true. benghazi worked. i mean, that is the joke. benghazi actually did work.

she was a very popular secretary of state, they sort of slandered her. and she became, you know, after hours and hours and hours, they were able to muddy her. so they like. her also, she's a powerful woman. so, she is just a favorite target of them. but >> again, i think it's an example of the difference between how republicans play politics with the benghazi committee and how democrats do. so, to your point, you're absolutely right. i would ask all of you to stick around we've got a lot more to break down after this break up. next, conservatives with, as i mentioned, will bloom everything but guns on air mass shooting epidemic. we'll talk about it. stay with us. stay with us the ram 1500. v6, hemi v8 with e-torque or ecodiesel. exceeding expectations... again.

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not talking more about the pot psychosis violent behavior connection. >> let's also talk about the fact that this kid was a heavy marijuana user. heavy marijuana use leads to psychosis. >> you can even walk to new york city with a breathing in secondhand smoke by marijuana, it's disgusting, it's why moved out. >> completely oblivious to what's legalization of marijuana has done and is doing to an entire generation of americans, with violent consequences. >> congressman, your reaction? [laughs] apparently it is they contact -- that's making everybody go bonkers in places like texas and buffalo. >> look, i can and you break down a lot of these conservative media and republican responses into a few categories. some are pandering to voters and to gun rights voters. some are chasing money, either corporate mediocrity or frankly for politicians seeking gun

lobby money. some as a pure deflection, they don't want to talk about the gun, and honestly, a man, a ton of ignorance. nothing about giving elected to congress ensures that you are smart. you don't run necessarily on being -- >> [laughs] >> profound ignorance in today's republican conference on capitol hill. they don't realize that the access to guns is the issue. all these other things, sure, there issues, of course they. our public issues, mental health issues, all kinds of issues. but, the fundamental driver of gun violence is easy access to any permission of gun violence culture. that's it. until we crush that culture and that easy access to guns, we will never solve that problem. laura ingraham will say whatever she wants, they will all say whatever they want. but, it's return keurig nerds. >> it means, it's not just marijuana, fox has blamed everything but can control. they have mentioned covid lockdowns, video games, porn, you name it. for me it's kind of bizarre because we have had mass

shootings before we had covid lockdowns. before we had violent video games, before we had access to the internet. i mean, are you at all surprised by what republicans are willing to say except for guns? >> it's not surprising, and i also think it goes back to earlier comments tonight when you said you were banging your head against the wall talking about president biden calling mitch mcconnell and other republicans reliable good faith negotiators. because, mitch mcconnell at one point was also saying that it's about mental health and focusing very much on that. the white house press secretary had to come out and say, well, president biden firmly disagrees with that. thinks that the problem is guns. so, i think that this all goes back to the fate of krystal jacobs. right, representative jacobs who is literally, whoever's in the district, that's ten miles away from buffalo new york where black people were literally shot to death by someone, by a racist gunman. with the kind of guns that democrats frankly are now trying to make less accessible.

he clearly had to have -- so, i think a lot of this is about politics, frankly. it's about pandering to the people that see guns as the number one issue. that they are gonna be voting on it. also, in some ways, really complicates what we say we look at this bipartisan group of lawmakers that are negotiating because the backdrop of all of this is that fox news is where those constituents are going to be looking for. it's gonna be fox news that in some ways is gonna be dictating how people see, whatever the deal, is that comes out of this. over the, delisting across no it will be moderate. that the guns issue is gonna still be this sort of confluence of democrats saying, yes, comes to the problems. republicans looking for all sorts of other issues to talk about other than the fact that this is gonna. one last thing, of course other countries have video games and marijuana. all the other things. so, we talk to experts. they also point to the fact this is a uniquely american problem. that has to be underscored and we talk about the way that people are talking about this,

and all the other things that people are bringing up. >> yeah, i'm so glad you brought up the issue of politics, molly, yamiche brought up, -- they love to -- senate candidate billy long bring him laying these shootings on abortion. take a listen to this. >> something happened to our society. i go back to abortion, when we decided it was okay to murder kids in their mother's wombs. life has no value to a lot of these folks. >> what do you make of those comments, molly? >> everything but the guns. you know, like, abortion, the women aren't doing the shootings? largely. it's men. so, the idea that anderson is tied to this, it's completely silly. again, they will do anything but the guns. i would say that abortion is an issue that they are super, you

know, the basis to break cited about taking away women's right to choose. that is got them very gender, up marijuana, i mean, with marijuana you have this issue where older people watch fox. older people have a lot of anxiety about marijuana. like this is sort of a well thought out way to sort of blame shooting on everything but the guns. the reality is that gun violence is caused by guns. it's not caused by anything else. >> david, how do you fight this cultural war when you have republicans that are blaming it on marijuana? on abortion? ohio gop senate candidate j.d. vance saying last year that he wanted to ban pornography as a way to help families. paul gosar tweeting his support, saying that vance is right. pornography is having horrible effects on the public. how do you go out and fight a cultural war with people that are this tone deaf about this issue of guns? >> politically, you defeat every single one of the ballot

box. every single one espousing these ignorant, wrongheaded, frankly dangerous narratives across the country that are willing to accept the status quo of gun violence. you defeat them. you support candidates who are going to support and assault weapons ban. comprehensive and universal background checks. a zero tolerance enforcement policy for people who failed to store their government -- hugo scorched earth on this politically. culturally, look, we have our work to do culturally. but we can't do that until we can first elevate leaders that can set a narrative for the nation. that we are done being the shameful partner on the world stage when it comes to gun violence. that we are no longer going to fail our children and recognize that going into a school house now, going to the synagogue, going to a shopping mall, going into a grocery store now, it's something that might actually risk your life. until we shame these elected republican officials and candidates that try to defend

why, they have a greater right -- without the fear of gun violence. then shame on them! shame on them! to feed them at the ballot box, but defeat every single one. >> but, senator lindsey graham is facing -- mobilizing retired and former military service members to help secure schools. it is just one of several, i would say, crazy ideas that have been put forth by republicans. your thoughts on lindsey graham mobilizing veterans to basically equip them with guns and arm them and have them guard our schools? >> i think it goes back to what we have been talking about, which is that republicans, including lindsey graham, want to focus on things that are not going to be threatening to the base of voters that they need to win elections. so, if lindsey graham is looking at this and saying we need to have schools be safer, that is going to be the issue. i know that at one point in the days --

somebody went to in school miami, is struck me are so weird. i went to a lot of schools where the classrooms were outdoors. so, literally, there would be no way to have, in my high school or a number of my middle schools, a number of the places in florida and other places like texas, there are outdoor campuses. people go to school and trailers. the question is really what is our nation going to do about this. whether it is lindsey graham or someone else, the republican party is going to continue to sort of come up with also it's of reasons why this is not guns. democrats are going to continue to place that reason why they think it is guns. so, at the end of the day it is going to go back to this idea that we are going to be living in this polarized society where blue states do where they want to do, red states do what they want to do. then, the supreme court will have the final say on whether or not to red states and blue states can live like that. yamiche alcindor, molly jong-fast, david jolly, thanks to the three of you, greatly present your insights, we'll be

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the issues. >> the whole world is now beginning to have its doubt. not only on the legality of the war, but if the war was so legal, why not charge this man? where the charges? >> whatever we might think of our clients, doesn't mean we just hang them or short them, we have a trial. we have a process. >> if we want to preach democracy and the gospel according to democracy, in other countries, we have got to start with doing things properly. >> one of the common threads of british justice is that every man is entitled to the best possible defense, because even the devil differs a fair say when he is pratt before a court. but >> you can catch episodes one and two of devils advocate tomorrow at 10 pm eastern, right here after this show on msnbc, streaming on peacock. thank you for making time for us evening, come back tomorrow night at nine eastern, we are here on msnbc. democratic congressman james auchincloss, who is calling for

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