-- that doesn't change. >> and even in the midst of mourning his brother, john morelos takes some comfort in how he helped solve nick's murder. you've still got his back, don't you? >> absolutely. >> i guess that never ends. >> no. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales. thank you for watching. well ♪ ♪ ♪ >> welcome to the show. i'm mehdi hasan. you need a license to drive a car, you also need proof of insurance. to maximize safety, every state in america has hundreds of laws regulating driving. they tell you what side of the road to drive on, one to stop, how fast you can drive. it requires you wear seatbelts, that you drive sober because everybody knows -- operated safely in the wrong hands, they can kill and maim.

with a robust set of laws, we can significantly limit damage. why can't we do that with guns? -- on that point. and they always fall back on the same argument, the constitution doesn't guarantee you are right but it does guarantee your gun right. a well regulated militia being necessary to the free stay, the right to the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. the second amendment. argue that the second amendment makes america unique, exceptional, and they're right. apart from the uk, we don't have the second amendment there, it's a right that doesn't exist in canada or france, or india, or russia, or brazil. in fact, only three countries on earth have gun rights embedded in their constitution. the united states, mexico and guatemala. both those two countries say

that right only extends to the home, and they both make it very difficult to purchase guns. america, of course, is different, not just because of the second amendment but how the courts have interpreted it. take the militia clause. historically -- states and only states could raise militaries comprise of their own armed populace. in 2008, a conservative lead, john roberts supreme court -- in, it -- that the second amendment confirmed, not a collective, but an individual right to bear arms. since then, republican led states have rushed to expand gun rights, stand-your-ground, open carrie, permit-less carry. we now live in the only nation on earth where there are an estimated more guns than there are people, where guns now killed more children than adolescents in america than cars do.

the late supreme court justice, john paul stevens, blame the decision for this turn of events, saying, his peers are taking the power to govern out of legislators hands. >> the effect of the second amendment, as it's now construed, is to make federal judges the final arbiters of the gun policy, which is quite wrong. quite contrary -- >> that was a combination of decades of demagoguery, and fearmongering by the gun lobby. as another retired supreme court justice, chief justice who argued more than three decades ago. >> if i were writing the bill of rights now, there wouldn't be any such thing as the second amendment. this is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, i repeat the word fraud, on the american public.

>> so, what can we do about a constitutional amendment, whose novel legal interpretation, thanks to a conservative supreme court, it's so broad, as to preclude any reasonable limit on gun ownership. an interpretation that renders us incapable of doing much of anything to prevent mass shootings like you've all day, buffalo, parkland and sandy hook. some say, get rid of the second amendment. it might sound crazy, but one of the people who said it was just a stephens, after he retired from the bench. steven said, an op-ed in 2018, after the parkland shooting, titled, repeal the second amendment, quote, overturning via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the second amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the nra's ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option. mehdi, you're saying, conservatives will accuse liberals of wanting to take all their guns. the thing is, they already say

that. >> they want to take away second amendment rights, that's what they want to do. they >> immediately start calling that we've got to take away the second amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. >> the objective should not be how to get rid of the second amendment. >> i'm here to protect the second amendment. >> they're gonna try and take away or second amendment liberties. >> they want to defund the police and take away or a second amendment rights. >> with the second amendment, and with the heller decision, conservatives have managed to paint any limit on gun ownership, even the hugely popular universal background check, red flag laws, storage requirements, a ban on assault style weapons. they managed to paint all of that as liberal gun grabs. the destruction of the second amendment. remember this presidential coup

ad from -- obama wants or guns. obama didn't want them, he didn't grab them, but to republicans, it didn't matter. if this is how they respond to background checks, then part of me wonders, why don't democrats go further? why not with the second amendment on the table for negotiation? if that's what they're using to cynically block -- most popular of gun control measures, why not put it on the table? why not make the constitution a living document again, by amending it? we've done it before. the original constitution didn't give women the vote, so we amended it. it didn't give slaves the vote -- so we amended it. we understood once that the world of our founders is not our world. that's why they give us the constitution with the broad strokes, and with a mechanism for being updated. if hard line conservatives and their allies on the supreme court are going to keep

interpreting the second amendment in a way that it wasn't understood for the majority of american history, as kids are massacred in schools, maybe it's time to make the meaning of that amendment, in the constitution, much clearer. >> what's the worst is going to happen? conservatives attack liberals is anti--- as we just saw, they already do that. to those who think repealing are changing or amending the second amendment is unrealistic, impractical, impossible even, i say, fair point. it's all of those things. you know what else is unrealistic, impossible, even, getting republicans to vote in favor of any -- especially if they can hide behind the second amendment as interpreted by the roberts court. joining me now to talk about all this -- he writes extensively about the second amendment in his new book, allow me to retort, a black eyes guide to the constitution. ali is also justice correspondent for the nation

magazine. thank you for coming back on the show. >> in your book, you argue that an individual right to self-defense, with a gun, was not provided by the second amendment, but by the conservative supreme court interpretation of the second amendment. you also say, quote, there was an original purpose of the second amendment, but it wasn't a key people safe. it was to preserve white supremacists and slavery. briefly, how do we know that to be the case? >> i'm coming up with that just because i'm reading patrick henry and george mason, who is then governor of virginia, at the founding of the country. this is not my words, this is with those white guy said when they were debating the second amendment. they said, they needed the second amendment because they needed the armed, disciplined militia, to put down slave -- they were worried -- the federal government had all of the power to raise the militia, right? the southerners needed the militias to put down slave

votes, because you know, it's a little -- against their will, so you need some military superiority. the second amendment was there to make sure that the states have the power to raise emotional issue on their own. virginia could races on militia to put down -- without having to ask connecticut whether or not they agreed with that. that's why it's there. that's why the white folks said it was there! fast forward to 2000 nate, -- makes up an entirely different second amendment right out of thin air. >> so that's the history. i'm glad you clarified it for us. we are in the current day, 2022, americas one of only three countries in the world, as i mentioned a moment ago, that has a constitutional right to bear arms. even mexico and guatemala don't so you could wander around college campuses, or whatever it is, public places, supermarkets with guns.

how do we get to this point? how do we get to this exceptional's point? ted cruz talking about my old colleague, mark stone, as sky news, have a listen. >> why does this only happen in your country? i really think that so many people around the world -- they cannot fathom, while only in america? why is this american exceptionalism so awful? >> you know, i'm so sorry that you think it's awful. >> this aspect of it. >> you got your political agenda -- >> no. >> god love. you why is it that people come all the -- it post -- on earth. >> it may be the freeze -- >> alley, how do you debate with conservatives, who, when you point out to them that american exceptionalism is a bad form of exceptionalism, nobody else has kids dallek this in schools, they celebrate that exceptionalism? >> you don't debate them. they're not interested in debate. they're not arguing in good faith. there is no winning argument.

there is no -- oh, look at the apocryphal on ted cruz, that's making ted cruz not be a dripping hypocrite. you don't debate them, you beat them. you don't debate them, you win. what has to happen is that when democrats have power, they have to use that power, maximally, to stop these people and defend our children. that's the only option because, as you saw in that clip, debating them is pointless. they're not interested in any kind of logical framework of debate. other countries have mental health issues, other countries have disaffected mill youth. other countries have violent video games. what other countries don't have is a bloodthirsty interpretation of a second amendment and a right to bear arms -- >> given that interpretation -- >> -- >> given that interpretation, given your point about wielding power, maximally, let's talk

about amending the constitution. you want to repeal the second amendment. john paul stevens had change a constitution, get rid of the constitution, is the only way to get past howler and the likes of the late scalia. people listening say, great, in theory. it's never gonna happen and rely. food you say to them? >> i don't know why it's never gonna happen and realize because i come at this from a very simple perspective. if you do not agree with me that the second amendment allows for a gun regulation -- if you just have a intellectual belief that the second amendment does not allow the government to regulate guns, to stop these mass shootings, then how can you not to be for repealing such a dumb law? if you honestly think that the second amendment is so dumb that we have entered a suicide pact, that requires us to be allowed to kill each other, then how can you not be in favor of repealing the second amendment? i think the second amendment is

more elastic than the -- if you agree with the nra, then certainly, you must agree to the constitution being amended to be a more safe document than it was in the 18th century! i don't think that the argument that, well, people will just never go for it really holds water, when -- you get people to agree, that we should be safer. the problem that you have is getting people on that first step. they don't think we should be safer, they think wrongly -- >> what's so funny -- >> that guns are what keeps us safe. that's not true. >> what's so funny, ali, republicans think that liberals want to get rid of the second amendment anyway, as i pointed out. it's the people have to convince is actually our own side. it's liberals who think that this is a bad idea because republicans think liberals are doing it anyway. there's an argument for why not just give them what they want. elements, always a pressure.

thank you for your time. speaking of the constitution, remember that whole church and state separation? well, there is a great subset of christian right-wing leaders, who say there should be no separation at all. we'll take a look at the rise of christian nationalism after the break. don't go away. the break. the break. don't go...is really cool. -seriously? -denied. can we go back to meeting at the rec center? the commute here is brutal. getting a quote to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? should flo stop asking the same question every time? -approved! -[ altered voice ] denied! [ normal voice ] whoa. (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪

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to flee to safety. >> president biden can for more help is on the way. >> do you believe that the department of justice is dragging their feet? >> divisions in the republican party growing deeper. >> it is happening here on the ground. >> if you have ever wonder just how extreme some elements of the christian rights really are, well, maybe pastor greg locke. >> if you vote democrat on even

want you around this shirt. you can get out. you can get you demon. you can get out your baby butchering, election teeth. you cannot be a question and voted democrat in this nation. i don't care how made it makes you. you cannot be a question and vote democrat in this nation now. >>, before you brush them off as some fringe crazy figure, you should know that he has millions of people who follow his teachings and sermons. pastor rock heads the look global vision bible church in juliet, a small town on the outskirts of nashville. that is the only small part about it. according to the washington post, 4 million people followed him across his social media platforms. 4 million. his sunday services boast more than 1000 attendees who come from hours away. and locke says his church raised more than $4 million last year alone. think about that. when as we go across the

country are followed a man who says the democrats are butchering demons. and you can't be a christian and a democrat. do you see this happening here? this particular string of hate fills fear filled ideology, coming out of the larger white evangelical community in america, hasn't recent decades locked arms with the broader conservative movement in america. it is a match made in a weird sort of political heaven. evangelicals have become the backbone of the republican party, making up over a third of trump voters in 2020. in fact, according to trump, it grew his support. his support among white evangelicals grew from 77% in 2016 to 84% in 2020. at first glance, it was shocking to see this group of christians back the twice divorced former casino owner who bragged about sexual assaults on tape. then again, trump they to do more to promote a right-wing evangelical agenda, than maybe any other previous presidents.

namely stacking the federal court in supreme court with judges who many believe would really deliver when it came to some of the issues that matter most to the religious right, there was charged issue of all being abortion and lgbtq rights. as well has political issues and morphed into religious ones. like a guns. states rights. and yes. race. we often talk about evangelical support for trump and the republican party, when you really mean white evangelical support for trump and the gop. a pew survey from 2020 found suddenly 30% of non white evangelical protestant voted for trump. that includes just 12% of black evangelicals. in fact, there are plenty of scholars who argue that what we are facing is not your garden-variety white evangelism, but a much newer and more worrying brand of white christian nationalism. this idea that the u.s. is fundamentally a christian nation, specifically a white christian nation, and the government should actively keep

it that way. but there is no separation between church and state. this is dangerous stuff. it is driven much more by race than religion. much more about politics and by faith. according to one research, when america to embrace christian nationalism or more likely to think it is too easy to vote in the u.s., that voting fraud was ramp, it and that voter suppression is a non issue. in the aftermath of the 2020 election some extremism experts and religion experts say that question nationalism had a significant influence on the insurrection. and now, two years later we are seeing how it is playing up in our elections. in pennsylvania, the mask around he's becoming a figurehead of the christian nationalist movement. a trump acolyte who espouses election denialism like it is biblical doctrine. he calls the separation of church and state a myth, and he was also inside of the capitol win january six rioters broken. master only was shocking with just one gubernatorial primary last month. he is perhaps the highest

profile victory so far for the question a nationalist movement in america. again, it is worth emphasizing that we are not talking about all christians or evil evangelicals. we are talking about those white evangelicals who subscribe to this a very authoritarian, and you saw on that greg locke quick clip a moment ago, hate filled brand of christian nationalism. talking to evangelical leaders who are not a part of this movement, what do they think about what is happening today. how worried should we all be about the likes of lock or mastriano? let us talk to when you vigilant left in this country. joined by reverend, rev. jim wallis, he is the author of the 2019 book a christ in crisis, why we need to reclaim jesus. reverend wallace, thank you for joining us today. the term evangelical is a bit nebulous. how would you define it going

forward? because it seems -- to say evangelical win they see somebody like greg locke, who i assume you have very different feelings towards? >> i'm glad you are raising this issue. it is very important. i define evangelical the way jesus did in his first opening sermon at nazareth. he said, the spirit of the lord is upon me. because he has a north of me to bring good news and work for great news, evangelize for the four. evangelical supposed to be good news, especially to the poor. as you point out, black and hispanic evangelicals are very different from white evangelicals today. at least the kind that we see here. this is not just a theatrical tantrum by an egomaniac who loves attention. he certainly seems to do that but. this is, really as you are pointing out, the rise. the rise of any theology, the

rise of idolatry. the name of it is white christian nationalism. it was at the core of the capital insurrection, and i listened to his whole take. and he, said we are not done with insurrections. you are going to see more of this. in a democracy it's depends on how we are seeing our citizens as neighbors not adversaries. he is calling people demons, and calling people demons's a license to kill. that is why he is doing here. >> let me ask you this for a moment. when you look at greg locke or dog mastriano in pennsylvania. or candace tailor the white rent, the woman who run the primary in georgia. she made her slogan jesus guns babies. it is clear that this is a phenomenon both taking place among white evangelicals, but also driven by the republican party. these people are also

republican, very much political. how did this fusion of politics and religion come about? in this very unique way. i don't see it happening in other western european christian countries. >> it is not accidental. it has been very strategic. it would they have done is they are trying to fuse religion with the politics. let's be clear. you are suggesting that would lock is saying is not kristen. it is not evangelical. in fact, i would say that mr. lock is preaching the gospel that this anti christ. it is antichrist. so let's be blunt here. the rising fascism in this country. i'm using these words deliberately. the rising racial fascism in america needs churches for its support. it needs churches for its support. and ironically, it may be only the churches that can help stop it. so we are talking about not

just a politics that is more and more anti democratic. but an insurrection against democracy. they need a religion to go along with it. so these books all around the world dummy same there. the answer is not just politics. it is in fact to -- religiously. >> what is so bizarre, though, is that we look at the fusion of politics and faith in america. say, abortion. a classic example of where evangelicals track to vote for politicians that promise to overturn roe v. wade, which they are already accustomed to doing. and it kind of makes some sense. it may be not the protestant church, it is a modern phenomena. catholic church obviously a longer phenomenon. then you look at somebody like a guns. what do guns have to do with christianity or the bible or the church? and yet poll suggest that white evangelicals are some of the strongest opponents of gun

control legislation. they also have some of the highest growth ownership rates. how does that come about? >> the polling also shows that white evangelicals are the population most against a multi racial future. so this is not about religion. the warship of gantz is contrary to the warship of god. indeed, this is about fundamentalism. you know about fundamentalism all over the world. in judaism's lob christianity, fundamentalism takes over religion. fundamentalism is a religion of power and control and violence. in fact, fundamentalism really distorts religion in favor of political power. and you are seeing now, the recruiting use of religion for, in fact, a movement that is indeed futuristic. so i want to say mister law, i don't even call him a reverence,

is a christian fascist. and kristen can't be fascist. so indeed, we are taking people like rambling on the basis of our faith. not just politics. let's go to the left, go to the right, go deeper here. go deeper than when our faith really says. true, authentic faith isn't annually to people who want to take power in autocratic retaliatory movements. they are afraid of us. and that is why -- >> it is interesting to hear you talk about taking people like him on. because there are some who would say that the left has allowed the right to hire christianity. to take christianity for itself. as being a kind of vacuum that the right was allowed to fill. the democrats allowed republicans to make groups to the republican votes. because there was a time when your democratic party leaders, presidents and senators, it will very question. and even today, to be here, joe

biden, the democratic president is a very powerful esophagus if i christian. but the thing is for the demonetization's, activists, churchgoing is not a common phenomenon. did democrats push christians into the arms of republicans? is it a fair criticism? or no. >> it is fair. we are talking about religious fundamentalism. , i would say. i would say the secular fundamentalism is also a problem. it is equally irrational. and some of that is on the left. in fact, plenty of democrats are people of faith and political leaders have been. there is no reason -- the separation of church and faith, i believe in it, doesn't require the segregation of moral values and religion from our public life. but it has got to be authentic paydays. so i was telling students all the time. many of them go to -- manual practice faith. but they are drawing to a kind of faith it is authentic and courageous and takes on power.

and so there is a movement grower, the confession church, were even younger people are joining with their black and brown brothers and sisters to create, really, a new american church. the global body prices the more diverse human community on the planet. and here we have this rise in nationalism which in fact is contrary to the gospel. so it needs to be pointed out that it is. i am not just against him. i am for the kind of multiracial face faith, with jimmy baldwin called the new jerusalem, that is rising up to. that's kind of multiracial fate could help to be the foundation and the guiding way for a new multi racial america to be first multi racial democracy in the world. we are in a battle for the soul of this nation.

and that has got to be fought at the deeper level than just politics at the left and right. and many of, us a whole lot of young people, already for that value. the testament closet spiritual warfare. that is what we are here to prevent. spiritual warfare for the sake of -- >> strong words, reverend jim wallace. we'll have to leave it there. thank you for the fascinating discussion. i appreciate it. still to come, why iran's military might be saying thank you to donald j trump. stay tuned. stay tuned ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ the census tells you a lot about people. you could tell on the census records that at very, very young ages, they were cooks, they were farm hands, they were servants. there's auralia, 4-years old. i have learned a lot about the rest of the family,

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want to update the world on our efforts to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. i am announcing today that the united states will withdraw from the iran nuclear deal. in a few moments, i will sign a presidential memorandum to begin reinstating u.s. nuclear sanctions on the iranian regime. >> that was then president donald j trump in 2018, abandoning the nuclear deal, a deal struck by the bottom ministration in 2015, that impose limits on iran's nuclear program in exchange for sanctions relief. the aim of preventing iran from ever building a nuclear weapon, trump's moved move those obstacles and restored economic sanctions instead. what does iran's nuclear program look like now, four

years after trump abandoned it? oh, would you look at that! the international atomic energy -- iran is now accumulated uranium to build in a tom bomb, should it choose to do so. that bomb's control association says the time it would take to do that could be measured in days, not months or weeks. so, congratulations, donald trump. the iranians couldn't reach is point without you. still to come, remember those government payments at the height of the pandemic that help keep so many families out of poverty? some say the government should do more of that. we'll take a look at the case for a universal basic income after a very short break. don't go away. don't go away. -packed vitamins... that help unleash your energy. loaded with b vitamins... ...and other key essential nutrients... ...it's a tasty way to conquer your day.

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summer worried about money. almost avenue percent saying the state of the u.s. economy is bad. president biden addressed some concerns in the new wall street journal op-ed this week, titled, my plan for fighting inflation. biden writes the job market is the strongest since the post world war ii era, with more than 8 million new jobs. the fast declining unemployment on record, and millions of americans getting jobs with better pay. business investment, he says, is up 20% and manufacturing jobs are growing at their fastest rate in 30 years. it'll take more than op-eds to make americans more confident in the economy. one thing biden isn't talking about right now, the direct payment that's administration may two americans just last year, which is kind of surprising, given how popular and effective they were. nearly four in five voters supported the 1400 dollar payment last year. when you add up all the payments from the pandemic relief, most adult americans got around $3,000. starting in july of last year, the child tax credit sent a

minimum of $250 to families every month. according to research from columbia university, this resulted in the lowest poverty rate on record, both child poverty, and poverty amongst black people. remember, that's during a pandemic decimated the economy just a year before. if these cash infusions work to reduce poverty in 2021, would in more payments help reduce poverty this year and every year? that's the idea behind a universal basic income. give americans direct pass payments -- regardless of income. cities like stockton, california have piloted basic income programs, sending qualified residents payments every month. how far can these programs be expanded, and are they really the key to alleviating poverty in america, or are they too utopian and expensive? my next guest has spent years making the case for a basic income -- universal basic income, or ubi,

-- michael thompson, the former democratic mayor of stockton, california. he spearheaded a and otis -- rowley, senior vice president for -- at the rockefeller foundation. thank you for joining me. michael, let me start with you. you spearheaded the basic income project, owes outcome? there one happened and who got the money? not everyone, right? >> yes, because we were doing a pilot, we weren't able to get to everyone but we made sure that we made a represented sample of the community. what we saw was that -- you, i and the viewers view money. on their kids, on maintenance, car insurance, groceries. we also saw that those received the guaranteed income were two times more likely -- those who didn't and two times less likely to be unemployed. we also saw significant mental health impacts, comparable to clinical trials of prozac. that's really interesting,

especially given that you raised, that in 2021 we had the lowest poverty rate on record, during a pandemic because we gave people a little bit of income, they were still having this conversation. we know what the data shows. people need cash to get to work, people need cash for all types of health outcomes -- to do that. >> otis, critics say, if you send people free money, they won't want to work. what is your response to that? common criticism of basic income programs. >> first of, all the rockefeller foundation -- we are nonpartisan and we are led by data and science. i really appreciate that you love the conversation today with the data that shows that biden's plan -- the funds that came into the american pocketbooks and wallets, it was actually spent in a way that secured economic security. it really created opportunity for folks to have their wiggle

room. the u.s. equity in economic opportunity -- is focused in on all these workers and how do they create more security and mobility. we know that the data tells us -- the data shows us that if folks have more cash, surprise, surprise, they're making the right decisions. we don't have to be paternalistic, in terms of how the money should be spent because folks have the financial wherewithal, once they have those dollars, to make those decisions. we saw that -- we saw that with a guaranteed income. i tried to dispel the myth information with facts. the data shows us that the facts are solid in clear, and if we infuse this capital into the pocketbooks of americans, -- it actually creates more economic security and wiggle room for economic security. >> michael, it's a bold idea. we have a democratic party

that's not known for pushing bold ideas. sorry to be blunt about your political party. what do you make of the biden administration's handling of the economy right now, broadly, not just basic income, not just checks, but the kind of bold ideas that are going to lift people out of poverty, that transforms peoples lives, and gets people to the polls. >> i think we have to bear the context of which we came in. -- particularly as it pertains to inflation and shipping issues because of the tariffs of the last administration. given that context, and the pandemic, no one's perfect, but the biden administration has tried and has done a lot to increase -- also the child tax credit. the one thing with the president didn't want to get done, he went on tv and said, this is my top priority. the issue is that there's a -- who failed prey to the tropes and stereotypes that many people do about why people are poor, why people spend money.

of course, there is room for improvement, but we can't lose sight of the fact that the price is -- about what he wants to see. it's really about giving congress and the senate, and particularly, -- or a whole other 40 plus sun -- to also get on board with an agenda that's good for all americans. not just democrats who need money, the majority of americans don't have enough money for one emergency. there should be something that gets bipartisan support. e some>> we are very familiar wh the blocking tactics of the senator from west virginia on this show. otis, let me ask you this -- joe biden was asking about -- economic victories which i think is a six -- you're from a think tank that's not a republican or democrat, let me just ask you the practical question that's associated with a lot of this rhetoric. people are talking about balancing the budget in deficit reduction, and someone like yourself, or michael comes

along and says, give people money directly, basic income. the come back, in d.c. in particular, is how we're going to pay for it? >> [laughs] we will pay for it in a way we've always paid for it. in terms of the out tax revenues, that's our dollars, coming back to us to help to ensure that we are competitive and secure. i do feel -- is about biden at the national level. but i feel like old -- the leadership -- leadership that we often see and -- it builds itself up. we are investing in 12 places, to our rockefeller opportunities, with mayors, counties, who like mayor tabs are at the vanguard. they're at the tip of the spear, in terms of looking for innovation, they are bipartisan we. have republican democratic mayors, or leaders who recognize that if we're going

to do something, it has to be now and that our dollars are best spent on us, in a way that really creates real security and mobility. i know that when you think about those populations that have been hard to say, not just with covid but historically, if they are black, they are indigenous, and we saw in -- that you talk about the beginning of the show, those populations are positively affected by this stimulus dollars. we know by the work of mayor talks and others, and in other cities, -- we have mayors who are doing this guaranteed income, not because they think it's a good i d a, because the data shows it is. they want to do it was in the best interest of the population. i pray and hope that the state and national level, to follow the leadership that these mayors are stepping up and moving forward, in terms of putting the people first. >> it's a fascinating point that we talk a lot about what

happens on capitol hill but it is a lot of the politics these day -- driven by governors and, we're happy to have this discussion about what people like michael thomas used to do in stockton, california. we appreciate both of you coming on the. show we're out of time. michael tabs, otis rowley, thank you very much. still ahead, when you're defending policies allowed a teenager to mask or children with an assault style weapon, it's easy to mess up your talking points. that's what happens the texas governor greg abbott. it's the tale of two abbots after the break. after the break. wealth is breaking ground on your biggest project yet. worth is giving the people who build it a solid foundation. wealth is shutting down the office for mike's retirement party. worth is giving the employee who spent half his life with you, the party of a lifetime. ♪ ♪ wealth is watching your business grow. worth is watching your employees grow with it. ♪ ♪

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moscow out of this devastating crime. the answer is absolutely yes. there will be laws in multiple different subject areas. for example, we do fully expect to have every law that we pass in the aftermath of the sanitation movement to be completely revisited.

and first we need to gain information about exactly what happened at the school to find out the extent to which these laws were complied with, to find out what shortcomings allowed this travesty to occur. and second, we need to have a discussion of passed laws to make sure that our schools are safe. >> that was texas's gop governor greg abbott last friday, addressing gun violence following the elementary school massacre that killed 19 kids and two adults. he promised to the grieving community that legislation would be on the table. he called the travesty quote, unacceptable. and vowed that there would be proposals meetings, on the table. sounds good to me. but then there is this. his prerecorded message for the nra's annual meeting on the same day. >> there are thousands of lazily books across the country that limits the owning in using of firearms. law have not stopped mad men

from carrying out evil acts on innocent people and peaceful communities. justice laws did not stop the killing. we will not like his evil acts stop us from uniting the community that he tried to destroy. i am in uvalde this afternoon working to heal a broken heart. >> funny how your message changed when you are speaking to an audience of gun owners instead of grieving parents. that does it for me. make sure to join us on, instagram twitter, tiktok, and facebook. i will see you tomorrow right here on the msnbc hub on peacock. from four, now from me, goodbye. from me goodbye. to support a strong immune system your body needs a routine. centrum helps your immune defenses every day, with vitamin c, d and zinc* season after season. ace your immune support with centrum. now with a new look!

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right now, we're all feelin' a little strapped. but weekends are still all about grilling. and walmart always keeps prices low on our fresh ingredients. so you can save money and live better. ♪ this is the katie phang show. live from miami, florida. we've got so much news to cover in a lot of questions to answer. so let's get started. the countdown is on until the january six committee's first public hearing just four days away, now. i want to know what is their strategy for these public proceedings, after months of work. and how do they avoid a big letdown? i will dig into the frustrations they are facing. nbc news sources say that the suspect also had a hit list of