matter. >> i think you're right about that one, my friend. we leave it at that. good evening to you at home, and welcome to ayman. even more mass shootings overnight. i'm gonna speak to congressman jake auchincloss who is working to tear apart the nra. plus civil rights activist jim on how the end of roe could affect lgbtq people. and republicans break up with big business, spreading political differences. we'll talk about that and more. i am ayman mohyeldin. let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> all right, so we begin tonight with details of even more gun violence in america. at least, seven people are dead. more than two dozen injured, after shootings in philadelphia, chattanooga, south carolina, this as funerals are still being held in both uvalde,

texas, and buffalo, new york. now, this is sad and infuriating ritual to go through ever going list of mass shootings every time we go on the air. this week, biden said enough. he said enough 12 times in a rare primetime speech to the nation. but apparently, enough isn't enough, because no substantial legislative solution appeared on the horizon. the president believes there is some, quote, rational republicans who might be willing to address this gun violence endemic. senator mitch mcconnell got some favorable headlines, which he suggested a willingness to work with democrats on this. but don't be fooled. he's had a decade long history of blocking gun control. this is not the first mass shooting that he's been involved in. the washington post provided a detailed list of times he spent working to quote, delay, obstruct or prevent most major firearm restrictions from being approved by congress. now, his stories begins back

1989, after a mass shooting rocked his own hometown of louisville, kentucky. mcconnell said he was quote, deeply disturbed, and said, quote, we must take action to stop such vicious crime. but then, he followed it with a now familiar phrase for the republican party, we need to be careful about legislating in the middle of a crisis. and mcconnell has been nothing but consistent, when it comes to making that same talking point over the year. here he was, years later, in 2017, after a las vegas massacre left 58 people dead. >> having a particularly on appropriate, politicized event like this, which just happened in the last day and a half, it's entirely premature to be discussing about legislative solutions. >> and after you've all the, texas, mcconnell made no mention of guns or any possible legislation. but he did declare himself second and outraged, thank you.

and said quote words simply fail. i agree, senator. words fail in exactly the same way all attempts to protect americans from gun violence failed whenever you're in the room. for more on this, i'm joined now by massachusetts congressman. congressman thank you so much for making time for us tonight. first, it's the first time you and i have spoken since president biden gave his primetime address. i just want to get your reaction to that speech, and on the need for gun control, and what impact has it made on the debate over gun control since he delivered it? >> president biden was one of the architects of the federal assault weapons ban in 1994. he knows what common sense gun safety legislation looks like. but he also understands, i think, what congress has become in the interim. and what the gop and the senate has become under mitch mcconnell. he's 100% beholden to the nra. i have no confidence that mitch

mcconnell will do the right thing. he is going to repeat the playbook of the nra that they have used at least since columbine. they're gonna blame the mental health problems in this country. where every developed nations have mental health challenges the u.s. is unique in that 300,000 schoolchildren have been exposed to in violence since columbine. they're going to say that the answer to bad guys with a gun is good guys with a gun. they want to make our synagogues and our churches and our grocery stores and our schools fortresses. they want to make it so that every time you walk outside your door, you have to arm yourself, just to feel safe. to distill the invasion of the united states, and this doesn't work. 19 guys with a gun, stood outside that uhde classroom, for 48 minutes, before they reach that door. good guys with guns do not stop bad guys with their gun. and finally, republicans the nra are gonna hide behind the d.c. healer supreme court ruling, and say that gun legislation is unconstitutional. well, justice kelly's top court

for that case said that dc versus how or does not prescribe common sense red flag and background check legislation. the republicans and the nra want to talk about every single thing other than the actual problem, which is guns. we have a gun violence problem in this country. it is because we have too many guns in this country, and americans and both parties, including gun owners, agree that we need common sense legislation to stabilize that. >> yeah so glad that you speak with such clarity about it, because republicans always try to complicate with this issue is about. and we saw there with senator mitch mcconnell. i mean, he's had a long career of obstructing and upholding gun control efforts. what would you state time tonight, as somebody who wields that kind of power over his party, and you know these, he's not at least, in my estimation, a good negotiator about this issue when it comes to gun control? >> i don't think there's

anything to say to mitch mcconnell. to borrow a line from him, words would fail me, because he's not interested in rational debate about this issue. i could tell that the only time that were deregulate appeared in the united states constitution is to describe how we should approach guns in this nation. but he knows that. he is beholden to the nra. he is beholden to their corrupt interests. and i think it's gonna obstruct any common sense legislation going forward. this is why i have increasingly come to believe that this country, to achieve with the majority of americans want, we have to dismember the nra itself. we have to go after that organization, which focuses on extremism and domestic terrorism, which recruits young men and promises them they can be like seal team, they can just buy high capacity magazines and tactical gears. this organization needs to be torn apart. we gotta go after them through litigation. we have to go after them through their membership rules. we have to go after them through their money. we have to go after them through their gun manufacturing

sponsors. this innovation, for so long as it exists, i think it's gonna be a major obstruction to the gun secularization that will save lives. >> yeah, i'm glad you brought that up. obviously, as you just had calls to ban the nra, dismember the nra, the radical gun group that is clearly huddled by all the scandal and the internal conflicts and all of the issues that we've been hearing about this organization struggling with. do you believe that this group faces an existential crisis because on one hand, we hear how they are financially struggling, yet, at the same time, we see the kind of powers they still have over members of the republican party that they completely are able to obstruct and block any meaningful path forward on gun control? >> i wish. we can't be passive. the nra is not going away until we take a proactive rigorous approach to it. we gotta pursue every avenue possible, like i said,

litigation, money, membership, it's not going away on its own. it's not gonna collapse under its own hypocrisy and evil. we need to attack it, a frontal assault. and i think that's kind of charge used to be left in part by veteran lawmakers like me. i trained a patrol ar-15 for four and a half years. i spent three months with that weapon day not before i was even allowed to put a ground in the chamber. when i went to sleep at night, we locked that weapon behind locked doors, because the united states marine corps understands that these are weapon of war, and they need to be treated with supreme respect. and they certainly have no place in the hands of untrained civilians, much less mentally unhealthy people. >> in the absence and i hate to sound like a broken record, for people who watch this show regularly, congressman, but i usually ask all politicians who come on this program, and the absence of filibuster reform, what can be done to stop mass shootings from happening every few days in this country? >> well, senator chris murphy

is leading the charge in a bipartisan effort right now. and senator murphy is the most passionate, one of the best experts on gun violence in the senate. i have every confidence that if there is a deal to be had, it's gonna be far from perfect. and make no mistake, which we really are gonna need is a federal assault weapons ban. it worked from 1994 to 2004. it has saved lives in that ten-year span, by the majority of americans. and we need to not stop fighting until we can pass it into law. but we also have to take the flight to the states. in my home state of massachusetts, we have an assault weapons ban. we have six storage background check, red flag laws. they save lives. in every state in the nation, if they applied those laws, tens of thousands of people would be alive today. and we can work state by state, while we are waiting for national gun violence legislation. >> all right, congressman jake auchincloss always a pleasure.

thank you so much for your time, always appreciated. >> next, why gutting abortion rights could hurt the lgbtq community, excuse me. but first, richard louis is here with the headlines. a, richard. >> very good evening to you. stories we're watching for you this hour. three are dead and at least 11 injured following a mass shooting in center city, philadelphia. investigators say several suspects opened fire, late saturday, in a popular light knife area. no arrests were announced there. meanwhile, we're taking to tennessee. police there are searching for the gunman responsible for shooting that left three dead outside a chattanooga bar on sunday morning. 14 were also injured. authorities say the victims either sustained gunshot wounds, or were hit by vehicles, trying to flee. and tropical storm alex, barreling towards bermuda. alex is not expected to directly pass over the aisles, got a tropical storm warning, now in effect. it officially gained tropical storm status just hours after it dumped over a foot of rain

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of pride month, gallup received a poll showing the level of support for gay marriage across the u.s.. it's under 71% of americans say they actually support legal, same sex marriage, which exceeds the previous high of 70% reported back in 2021. but how much the public opinion matter in this country at this moment? this week the, wall also released a new poll, showing 68% of americans opposed roe v. wade being overturned. yet, we all know from last month's leaked draft opinion that the supreme court is still poised to strike off abortion rights. joining me now that lead plaintiff in the stock 2015 u.s. supreme court case, over

governors hodges. he's also a democratic candidate for the ohio house of representative. jim, it's great to interview you. great to meet you. thank you so much for your time. let's start with this new polling. it suggests that americans are more in supporting of same sex marriage than ever before. do you think that public sentiment could serve as a bulwark for conservative, legal attacks against the lgbtq community in america? >> thanks for having me on, ayman. and i would love to believe that the support that americans show for same-sex marriage would be able work. but i'm not confident that it well. the opponents of lgbtq+ equality, marriage equality specifically, they have been fighting against our ability to actually be part of the people who enjoy equal rights. so i'm not certain that this bowling, while it is encouraging and not surprising,

in my opinion, i'm not certain that it will be taken into account by people who continue to attack us, and demean us, and try to take away our rights that we enjoy. >> after the courts leaked draft opinion, there are folks out there who are immediately concerned about the future of same-sex marriage in this country. some are saying those fears are oval overblown. they're going to justify this, now justice roberts is joining the liberals on the 2020 ballot box suggesting that this court is hostile to lgbtq rights. what's your answer to that? what's your belief that these justices, based on what they had done, historically, would not necessarily be more hostile to those right now? >> well, my thought is, we are at risk of losing marriage equality. we are at risk of losing our right to not have our intimate relations criminalized. i believe lawrence versus texas,

i believe so much of the proxies we have made progress we have made an lgbtq rights is at risk because at this current court, and because of the rationale used in the sweet decision on hub. you know, to say that the fundamental rights that we enjoy, or those rights that are not specifically in the constitution has to have a long history or tradition in our nation in order to be considered writes, that should terrify every member of the queer community, every person who cares about someone in the lgbtq+ community, because less than seven years, lawrence versus texas, 19 years. loving versus virginia, 1967. that is not a long history or tradition, and i believe interracial marriage is often at risk, because of the rationale used in the doctor nation. so i think we should all be concerned about our rights, our

ability to enjoy people -- live live on an equal basis in this country. >> what do you think is the cultural force behind this? i mean, what's driving this? we've seen an obscene wave, upstream wake up just anti lgbtq laws, big introduced on this state level. i mean, florida passed its don't say gay bill. texas is trying to take trans get away from families. you have ohio republicans, they're trying to pass a bill that would allow random people to demand high school, literally undergo genital check during sporting competitions, or because of sporting competitions. what is going on in this country that is just fueling this, and just unrelenting, and letting it be resolved the way it was, through your case and other legal cases? >> that's a great question, ayman. for me, it comes down to the way some people in this nation have twisted and perverted

their definition of religious freedom. you know, really discrete of means you have the ability to worship, to believe the way you choose, in your home and in your house of worship. and that know what one religion has presidents over the other. that has been subverted, so that we have people who are demanding preference for their particular interpretation, of their particular relation, and everything, in public life. and i think that that is at the root of many of the challenges that are being, that are being faced by the lgbtq+ community. and you know, i just have to ask, you know, do any of these bills make life better for anyone? do they helped create jobs? do they rates pay? do they help address the cost of gasoline? or do they help address the cost of groceries? no. these laws do nothing to help people. these laws do nothing to make lives better. in fact, these laws actively harm people. and i don't understand why so

many of our elected officials are focused on this, instead of actually engaging in public service, and making things better for everyone in their, in their constituency. >> yeah, and we are seeing it had real life consequences to your point. we're seeing recent homophobic entrance phobic messages from leading conservatives. these have really scary effects on the ground for people and their lives. in fact, out of play you a short group of protests that took place outside of dallas gave yesterday, and get your response. >> [noise] >> what do you make of that? again, you see some folks there with a trump flag, and chanting outside of a gay bar. and to your point about, you know, just the rear left consequences for the community? >> i mean, i find it

disgusting. and, ayman, let me put it this way. i grew up a baby of six in a family. everyone in my family's straight. i grew up. i was born in 1966. i grew up in a world where i never saw any gate person, any lgbtq+ person in culture, in my neighborhood, out. i never saw any of that. yet, i still grew up gay. we do not groom. we simply are who we are. we are who we are born to be. and talking about the existence of lgbtq+ people is not grooming. it is simply acknowledging reality. it's simply saying, we exist, we deserve to exist. and we deserve to enjoy life on an equal basis. and even, i'll give you one quick story that just illustrates how important things like when -- i spoke at a university, a young woman came up to me after work inside, jim, i just want

you to know that if it weren't for this case, i wouldn't be here today. if it worked for marriage equality becoming the law of the land, this young woman would have committed suicide. and that's with these people are commenting. that's what they're making our children worry about or consider. and it's hardening. it's disgusting. and inhumane. >> but nascar really quickly before i let you go, jim. as i mentioned, we're in pride month. bright is of course, a celebration, to the advances of cool people in this country. but it's also a time for lgbtq people and allies to focus on the challenges that remain. what would you encourage viewers and allies to do during this pride month? >> i think with any pride month we should celebrate our existence. we should celebrate that we are here, and that we deserve to be

here, and we deserve respect. but this pride month, i think it's especially important, because we need every one in the lgbtq+ community. we need all of our allies. we need our corporate allies. we need our families. we need our friends. so, use their voices to stand up and say, this anti-lgbtq plus animus is wrong. it's anti-american. and we will not stand for it. we need everyone who believes in our ability and our right to live life, to be on our side, and to be vocal, and to vote. vote for candidates who actually believe in treating everyone as a human being. vote for candidates who actually believe in making a positive difference, and not attacking people, because they happened to be different. >> jim obergefell, thank you so much for your time. i greatly appreciate it. >> thank you very much, ayman. >> next, why the republican party isn't so pro business

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supporting businesses, that he was never one to shy away from calling for a boycott. macy's, apple, harley davidson, cnn, goodyear tire, these are just a few of the many companies the former president called to boycott before he was kicked off twitter. but that usually is the extent of his attacks on companies. low it about the trump era -- >> we are with the governor of florida, ron desantis. he has done a spectacular job in florida. he enjoys high popularity and that's for reason. the reason as he's doing a good job. >> florida governor ron desantis is being seen as the potential 2024 gop candidate of trump that can run again, and

he is going one step further in the gop's attack on businesses. desantis has a new enemy that tampa bay -- the florida governor vetoed for a new facility this week after the team hosted tweets calling for gun safety loss after last week's school shooting in uvalde, texas. let that sink in. they just posted tweets. this was just weeks after he waged war on disney and took away their tax status for the crime of opposing the don't say gay bill. how can republicans say that they are the party of businesses when they are targeting them like this? we're going to have much more after this. g to have much mor after this coming up at the top of the hour, giovanni destefano is known for representing charles manson and saddam hussein. that was before questions about his identity started to surface. msnbc presents the three parts guy regional series, devil's advocate. the mostly true story of giovanni d. stefano.

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night panel. imani gandhi is senior editor of law and policy at rewire news group. and christina greer is an associate professor and political science at floating intercity. i'd like to get your reaction, e-money. going after the tampa raise, he doesn't seem to shy away from going after companies if they're not selling his political line. >> i think what's interesting about the training facility on the tampa bay raids, it seems he was already inclined to do that. according to him he doesn't think the taxpayers should be paying for these facilities. in terms of that sort of reasoning, trying to protect florida constituents, it seems like a good reason, but then --

disclaim about tweet, this claim about the tampa bay raise -- that's what it's sort of begins that he is trying to highlight his own conservative bona fide 2024 run. and whether or not he is waging a war on business. depends on with as business said and with that business hold. >> desantis also went after the special olympics this week tread threatening to find them millions if they did not drop their vaccine mandate. they reversed it. desantis took that looked -- that this governor is still trying to block people from mandating vaccines. >> he's an honorary coach there. but using that position to strong-arm them. we have to remember this is florida, there's so many of his

constituents. they want this authoritarian character to kind of come in and demand justice and demand policy. that's exactly what he did. unfortunately the special olympics acquiesced to his demands without ignoring the science and the facts. -- to say nothing of some of these people are immunocompromised. he needs to be people to be vaccinated. i think this whole conversation about the as he is eyeing the 2020 for -- donald trump cannot or does not right, it's really dangerous setup, because he's really catering to the most far-right extremist in the country and in the party. >> some republicans have called out the sentences war on disney saying it's not the right approach to business -- to punish businesses for political reasons.

do you think that what desantis is doing could backfire against him, or because he is the air apparent republicans, looking towards, i'm looking at him as a model governor? >> republicans are not particularly ones to adhere to principles, so i think if it suits around the centers to go after disney or to go after any business because they oppose certain policies that he appears to, or because he sees that they're involved in this quote unquote, culture war surrounding lgbtq people, but i think it is important to recognize is that when it comes to something that conservatives want, corporations of people, like when it comes to money's politics. when it comes to dark, many corporations of people. -- they should be able to flood the political process with money. but when it comes to speaking out for lgbtq rights or speaking out for gun advocacy, or speaking up for any of the

myriad of things that american people need, for elective representatives to focus on, that's when you get in, i don't know if i believe in that so much. i don't think the people that ron desantis is trying to appeal to are particularly concerned if he sorts of flip-flops on protecting business or not protecting business. they want -- they agree with him. they agree that for example, lgbtq people are grooming children and that disney is somehow participating in that. they believe that the second amendment [laughs] ronny sentences walking his own path, but i'm fearful that there are a lot of americans that -- with him. >> including his lieutenant governor, jeanette nunes who is on newsmax back in april. basically implying that this knee would get back its tax status of the reverse their political comments. watch this. >> is there an opportunity for disney to change their minds and say we will disregard this

whole woke agenda. a lot of people don't want to not like disney anymore. >> sure. we want to make sure that we're protecting the interests of floridians. not necessarily a will corporation that take their marching orders from burbank, california executives that have a very public agenda to indoctrinate our children. >> it seems to me that's a bit of blackmail. they're literally saying if this needed sweat we asked them to do they will get their tax status back. >> this is straight out of the donald trump playbook bullying and intimidation. anyone knows that, when he was a television star before he became the manhattan landlord. this is what he has always done. now it's ron desantis trying to do that. i think what's really frustrating is the way that the republican party has taken this

idea of not just wokeness, but this indoctrination of children. it ties into how they accused their elected officials being pedophiles. it's a much more insidious project that the republican party is taking a part of. >> it seems that way. i'm going to ask both of you to stick around. we will take a quick break. we have a lot more to discuss. next, how big donors are spending big money to shape the democratic party's future. to shape th democratic party's future. democratic party's future. plus, superior nutrition. because the way we care is anything but ordinary. ♪♪ (burke) a new car loses about ten percent of its value the minute is anything but ordinary. you drive off the lot. or more. that's why farmers new car replacement pays to replace it with a new one of the same make and model. get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield.

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in full swing, with less than six months until the midterm elections. the political super pac does already spending millions, from dark money groups including the united democracy project, dropping millions on boosting endorsed candidates, and attacking progressives in those primaries. we want to talk to groups about this trend, but only one agreed to come on this program. with me now is the president of a lobby organization that is pro israel and pro movement. that organization did not respond to our request. jeremy, thank you so much for making time for us. so, from your vantage point, what do you make of this money pouring into these democratic primary races? and what do you think is fueling it? >> well, it's very clear what

is -- obviously, there's a number of sources in different facts. but they have been involved in the political process for many years. but never actually explicitly admitted what it was doing. now, the curtain has been called back on their activities. and we're seeing tens of millions of dollars flowing into democratic parties, primaries, with a very specific agenda, which is to shut down people who have a critique of what the israeli government is doing. and its occupation of the palestinian people. and that is the position within the democratic party, that is gaining increasing currency, particularly among progressives, which really in the center of the party as well. and a pack is spending tens of millions of dollars to shut down that dissent, and they're still fear for people who might dare to criticize the israeli policy. >> yeah, and to your point, they're backing both republicans and democrats right now. and they said in a statement to politico that they backed

members of both parties, either requiring bipartisan support in congress, to adopt legislation that would advance fewest israel relations. what do you think of these kinds of endorsements that are simply based on one single subject, like the u.s. israel relationships, regardless of whether republicans are pro democracy, pro american democracy or not. i mean, there are members of congress who voted to basically overturn the 2020 election. but if they're good for israel, a, they're good for pac. >> it's really ironic that pac shows to name it's super packed, they united democracy project. they don't acknowledge that it's a back -- and then they endorse 109 members of the house and senate who voted to overturn the results of the 2020 election, and who have not stood up to donald trump's big lie. so very fundamental for that exists to american democracy comes from the swing of the republican party that aipac is

endorsing. at the same time, through is super packed, it's spending tens of millions of dollars not to endorse the candidates who threaten american democracy, but to threaten and defeat progressive democrats who dare to criticize israel's democracy. so it's really an irony within an irony. they are focused exclusively on one side of the political equation. and that is doing damage and driving a wedge into the democratic party. around the issue of israel. yet, a pack is always claim that its mission is to build bipartisan support for israel. and the set of activities is undermining that bipartisan support. >> talk to me, jeremy, about the political endorsement of j street. how do you thread that needle, and what are you doing in terms of funding ahead of the midterms? how do you strike that balance between what the u.s. is going through, what israel is going through, and the concerns you have for both?

>> well, we are a super pac as well now. we have joint into this, and have our own super pac, but we call it j street. and we are very straightforward about what is it that we are doing. we are backing candidates who are promoting democratic values in the united states, and when it comes to israel, palestine. but we support candidates who are in favor of an american foreign policy that promotes the resolution of the israeli palestinian conflict, the end of occupation, both jewish rights and palestinian rights, when it comes to the conflict. most importantly, candidates who are standing up for american democracy, and willing to protect and stand against the very real threat that we are facing from one wing, sadly, right now of one political party. but >> and let me ask you, finally, we have about 30 seconds. i know it's a very difficult question to ask. but in your general opinion, what do you make of the relationship right now between the u.s. and israel?

is it back on track after the strange years of the obama netanyahu years? >> well, i think the fundamental relations are on track. i think there's those diversions in terms of policy attacks. you know, during trump years, there was support for let's say, a one state revolution of this conflict, with only the state of israel for the jewish people, and no state for the palestinian people, under joe biden, we are now back in reporting the concept of two states for two people. the israeli government unfortunately, at this point in time, does not explicitly agree to this. and i think we still have some policy differences between the two governments. >> all right, jeremy, thank you so much for making time this evening. next, the state of california may soon be paying millions to african americans.

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attorney's office to pursue justice for everyone. but like so many of my colleagues, i resigned in protest because chesa boudin interfered in every single case and failed to do his job. the office is absolutely in disarray right now. chesa dissolved my unit prosecuting car break-ins. now criminals flock to san francisco because there are no consequences. we can't wait. recall chesa boudin now.

since the abolition of slavery. but -- instead of the political, legal, health, financial cultural, social and economic assistance of the united states. and that is according to a new landmark report on reparations out of california. in a stunning 500 page

documentary, documented first in the nation's task force. today's inequities, documenting how federal state and local policies amounted to virtual states sanctioning oppression. but acknowledgment is not the very first step towards justice. the task force is now demanding comprehensive preparation for black americans. so what could that look like? my panel is back with me to -- let me start with you, only get your reaction to the significance of this report out of california, and how we build on it going forward? >> i think it's such an important that this report came out particularly at a time when black americans are under siege, in the wake of buffalo, with covid and this is affecting black communities harshly. i think it's important to remember that -- let black americans know that we are as important as the other groups of people who have

been harmed, and have gotten reparation. it's outrageous that we are 160 years past the end of slavery, and we hadn't even really had a robust enough conversation to really talk about numbers and what that policy would look like. so, i, for one, i would love this idea. and i hope democrats and others, other blue states, will take up this task as well. >> i was gonna say, forget the dollars for a moment. we never even had a truth and reconciliation commission in this country, to lay out what's happened, and so that we can all understand what's happened, as opposed to what republicans are trying to do now, which is ban the teaching of slavery and racism in this country. christina, the report identified some specific areas in need of reform, like education, voting housing wealth and equality criminal justice. on that last point they referred to the prison system as quote, legal slavery. and a lot of people think the harms of slavery and ended centuries ago, but how do modern systems like the prison system in this country carry on

the ugly legacy of slavery? >> we can't say anything of tearing parents apart, targeting black men specifically, making sure that women are pushed out of their homes, while men are locked in prison, when they get out, they're not allowed to get involved, participate in the economic life, that can really lift the wealth gap, or provide even a foundation for their families. we see this across the country. and one of -- the same and we've been incarcerated for decades, because of marijuana, can no longer participate in this robust, million dollar, billion dollar growing economy. and i think it's also really important, amen, thinking about the work my colleagues do, that the university of san francisco, it is important that california -- california the largest state in the nation. we have to remember that so many black americans migrated to the west. and it's not just because of

the prosperity, and the prospect of job and the new opportunities. they were fleeing lynching in the south. they were fleeing domestic terrorism. they were fleeing, people that we see, like dylan ruth, and the individual in buffalo who killed our elders. this is not something that's been new. so i think they're living through this. and something that i think about, u.s. chattel slavery, that happened in that particular moment, we have to remember jim crow. we have to remember the legacies of -- so many ways that are the black men have been terrorized in their own country. and as you mentioned, it's not to teach black american history. why children aren't learning about their own history and how they are being part of the system that we see playing out today. >> we have about 45 seconds left. but talk to me about what these reparations could look like. i mean, the specifics are still obviously being worked out. but as one organizer from

california told the washington post, we are in a position that even direct compensation is aimed reparation. do you think direct cash reparations are the only answer? or should other programs like free tuition, or housing grants, be part of that broader discussion? >> well, i think the issue is whether the institution is affecting black americans specifically. and we've seen so many government programs do that. i think there needs to be an acknowledgment that this issue that is affecting black americans, and i fear it is being broadened to be a policy that affects people of color, or that affects low income people. and i think that those are people that do need help, but i think this could mean particular black americans, and i think there needs to be money involved, and money in hands. >> money to black americans that are -- or to all black americans regardless? >> that's an interesting question, because i have a hard time answering a question,

because i'm adopted. i don't know in my background is. i don't feel like i should have to submit the dna testing. i don't know with the answer to that question is. i don't know the answer to that question. it's hard as an adoptee. >> yes. it's an important conversation to have, but at least we are beginning to have it in this country, and hopefully it will continue. in many gandhi and christina greer, thank you so much. i greatly appreciated your time and your insight. thank you at home for making time for us tonight. i'm ayman mohyeldin. devil's advocate, the mostly true story of giovanni destefano starts right now. >> i am a born catholic. i