john lemire? >> yeah, young up and comer, trying to get his way in the world. >> he is good. >> your story is terrific, buzzing all weekend. come back soon for sure. thanks to all of you for getting up way too early on this monday morning. jam-packed "morning joe" starts right now. the first weekend in june saw london celebrate queen elizabeth's 70 years on the throne. rafael nadal's 14th win at the french open. signals from the vatican an aging pope may soon retire. in the united states, unfortunately, it was more of the same. we had another weekend punctuated by the sound of gunfire and a flurry of mass shootings. mass shootings in philadelphia that left 14 shot, 3 dead. in chattanooga, 14 shot, 3

killed. phoenix, a 14-year-old girl was gunned down and 8 others shot at a strip mall in south carolina, where bullets tore through a graduation party, leaving one dead and others injured, six children. in texas, georgia, new york, and michigan. add those numbers up with the other mass shootings over the first months of 2022, and you get 240 mass shootings. let me say that again. 240 mass shootings already this year, in a year that's not even half over. what will republican governors, legislators, and members of congress do to stop the continued killing of our children in schools, our teenagers at malls, our mothers at graduation parties, our families in church, our grandmothers in supermarkets, our friends at country music

festivals? it looks like nothing. nothing to speak of. i just want to know, this so-called party of life, which is anything but, when will they ever respect the life of those who are actually drawing a breath? i don't know. it looks like never. but i will tell you what i do know. i know they think you are stupid. they think you are distracted. they're going to mumble about mental health. they're going to cut funding for mental health. they're going to talk about school safety. they're going to then cut education funding. they will talk about doors. yes, doors, not the jim morison variety, doors, instead of the millions of guns that kill americans every day. they're going to keep trying to distract you from the fact that america is unique in its refusal to do anything rational or sane to save lives, to keep guns out

of criminals' hands, to keep guns out of the mentally unfit, those people's hands. they're going to do nothing to make it safer for our children to go to schools, for our teenagers to go to malls, for our families to go to churches, for our grandmothers to go to grocery stores, for all of us to go to graduation parties. like i said, our neighbors musi fear of being gunned down by some crazy person. so what happened this weekend? tragically in the united states, more of the same. you know, today, today is, i think, a special day for me and for a lot of americans. it is june the 6th. it's the day that our troops came on shore in normandy and liberated an entire continent. from fear, from nazism.

it's a day that bobby kennedy passed away, but he passed away running a campaign that talked about making america a more gentle, a more safe, a more free place to live. so i believe in american exceptionalism. i believe in it economically and politically. sadly, it also applies to a gun culture that's becoming more extreme every day. judges, retired judges, are being gunned down in their homes. we have a political system that, like police officers in uvalde, are doing nothing while americans bleed out because of guns. mika, we can do better. we have to do better. >> joe, people who you would least expect to hear from are beginning to speak out. we'll have that coming up.

then there's the slow work happening on capitol hill. with us, we have the host of msnbc's "politics nation," the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton, with us. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay joins us. and white house bureau chief at politico and host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. we're going to start with the mass shootings in the last 72 hours. 17 dead, nearly 70 hurt, and several have critical injuries. this is normal life in america. according to data from the gun violence archive, there are at least 13 mass shootings from friday through sunday. the independent research group defines a mass shooting in an incident in which four or more people are shot, not including the shooter. two cities saw the worst of the violence. in philadelphia, three people

died and 12 were wounded late saturday night in a popular downtown district. investigators believe the shooting came after a fight between two men, and most of the victims were innocent bystanders. police say officers found shell casings from five different guns at the scene. so far, there have been no arrests. meanwhile, in chattanooga, tennessee, two people were shot and killed, 12 injured early sunday morning. one person died after they were hit by a car while trying to flee. this was chattanooga's second weekend in a row of mass shooter violence. today is the 157th day of the year, and there have been at least 246 mass shootings so far. that's an average of 11 per week. that is normal life in america, joe. >> yeah. again, i think, katty kay, i'm so glad you're here. i certainly want to talk about

the queen's jubilee, but whenever i talk to good friends from britain, conservative friends from britain, torys from britain, people who share my views on culturization, politicians, small government, they'll look at me, and always have, and say, "you americans and your guns." and the contrast between the united states and great britain is so striking, considering we share so much in common. but in this one area, it's just -- the difference is just shocking, isn't it? >> yeah. i mean, this is making it very hard for allies of america, friends of america, people who love this country as i do, who lived here for very long, to defend the country at the moment, when every single morning, we wake up and there is another mass shooting. we keep getting asked, what is going on in that country? why can't they fix this? in the uk, you know this, joe, they fixed it. it was a conservative government

that fixed the united kingdom's gun problem in 1980 after a mass shooting. they banned assault weapons. in the 1990s, they banned handguns after one school shooting. it's all it took in scotland, and the united kingdom banned handguns. it now has amongst the lowest rate of gun deaths of any westernized countries. that was a conservative government that did it. america stands out as a complete exception. this is america's exceptional problem. its relationship with guns and the number of guns in the country, and the seeming tolerance for the number of people that get killed by guns in this country, including children in schools. no other western country tolerates this. on capitol hill, democratic senator chris murphy, who is helping to lead bipartisan talks for new gun safety legislation, says a deal is within reach, but acknowledged it will not include several of his party's priorities. >> we're not going to do everything i want. we are not going to put a piece

of legislation on the table that is going to ban assault weapons. we're not going to pass comprehensive background checks. right now, people in this country want us to make progress. they just don't want the status quo. i've never been part of negotiations as serious as these. there are more republicans at the table talking about changing our gun laws and investing in mental health than at any time since sandy hook. >> the house is scheduled to meet on two gun safety bills tomorrow. one for red flag laws. another would raise the buying age for semiautomatic rifles from 18 to 21 years old. that seems pretty basic, joe. >> well, it seems pretty basic, though i will say, jonathan lemire, again, despite what i said at the top of this show and despite what i think they should do, being far more aggressive with universal background checks, but, hey, i'm just with

the 90% there. i'm sure the 10% have a good reason for not moving forward. but that said, there are going to be a lot of people angry that military style weapons won't be included in this. the universal background check won't go as far as needed. but we're just not there yet. we're certainly not there with a 50/50 senate. seems remarkable to me that a 50/50 -- that 50 republicans mean that 90% of americans are told to go to hell, but that is where we are right now. still, any progress, any progress would be news breaking, given the fact that nothing even happened after sandy hook. >> yeah. joe, there's no question about that. there does seem like momentum from both sides. republicans and democrats, something could get done. nothing is official. the two sides are exchanging paper. there is no official, formal draft yet of legislation. senator murphy has been the lead spokesperson on this, and he has

been sounding a relentless note of saying, hey, we need to get something done, but also optimism that something will get done. it'll be incremental. even the measure to raise the age limit in order to purchase an automatic weapon from 18 to 21, at least for now, that seems like it won't happen either. instead, some background checks will be strengthened, not universal, but enhanced, and there seem to be red flag laws that will be tightened. those are steps in the right direction. people close to the process say to me say, look, anything would be a triumph. from the opposition, from republican leadership like mitch mcconnell, who we heard from time and again say, after a school shooting, what do we focus on, mental health and school safety, and never mentions guns. at least some republicans are willing to go there, at least a little bit on guns. we heard from president biden in his emotional speech in primetime last week saying, look, he recognized, he seemed to telegraph, it might be

incremental, but it is a start. we have to get something done. >> republicans who mention mental health and don't push guns are the same republicans who didn't do anything for mental health or made cutbacks. reverend al, as someone who covers and also speaks at and speaks to the parents of victims at the funerals of these shooting ttragedies, whether in buffalo or uvalde, it shows so many lapses in our laws. >> one of the things that really disturbs me about uvalde is they're talking about mental health at a time the governor cut the budget for mental health. >> correct. >> i mean, the height of hypocrisy is to cut the budget and then talk about maybe this man killed 19 babies -- i mean, school children to me are babies, third and fourth graders -- and you're just going to pivot to something you know

you took the investment out of? the other thing that disturbs me is where are the moral voices? where are the voices that come to the pulpits of america, the evangelicals and others? i preached yesterday at second baptist church in baldwin, new york. as i was up at the pulpit, i talked about how we talk about being baptists. well, these voices that came out about women's right to choose last week or week before last, but they're not talking about how children have a right to live and not be faced with mass shootings. there seems to be a silence with the right-wing moral leaders that seems to be selective in what they want to come in to address in the body politic. if we can tolerate over 200 people being killed in mass shootings, chattanooga, philadelphia, on and on, just this weekend, and be silent,

then i'm wondering what we're preaching and i'm wondering what the politicians are in office for. >> it's the same type of avoidance, joe, that you see, for example, with january 6th, on guns, with these republicans or religious leaders and groups. they just don't want to talk about it. they want to move on. >> just want to pretend it doesn't happen. 19 children bleed out. 19 children gunned down, babies, as reverend al said, killed. in washington, republicans won't even move the age to own a military style weapon from 18 to 21. there's so many other things, you can't get a beer in texas until you're 21. you can't get certain medicine until you're 21. but you can get an ar-15. i will tell you, any republican that says that an ar-15 is

constitutionally protected by the second amendment is just a liar if they actually read the constitution and actually look at heller. it is not. also, you look at states like connecticut and other states that are banning military style assault weapons. those have been on the books for years. the supreme court has let them stand because they're not unconstitutional. nobody, though, in this negotiation is talking about taking away ar-15s or making regulations tighter. they're just talking about moving the age from 18 to 21. republicans won't even do that. it is just aggravating. mika -- >> crazy. >> -- there is a picture i saw, and, you know, it is -- i must say, i think most of us are shocked by the behavior of the police officers in uvalde. there's so many different angles to talk about there. most of us are shocked by what happened in parkland.

the officer that didn't go in was eventually charged. but that's -- you look at the picture. there is a picture of police officers standing outside scared to go in. scared to go in and confront the shooter that had shot children while children were calling 911 and were bleeding out. police officers were scared to go in. now, we need to talk about those police officers. they need to be held accountable. at the same time, why didn't they go in? it is fairly basic. >> there was an order not to go in. i just want to be careful, cops -- i bet you there are a number of cops that would have done anything to go in there. >> right, right. but -- >> they were being held back because they have to follow the orders of the top commander. >> right. >> i want to be careful. >> but my point, mika, is not about that. my point is, you look at the

pictures and they're standing outside. >> i know. >> why? it is very basic. >> they're out gunned. >> because they're out gunned. >> yeah. >> because republicans and the nra have a conspiracy. they work together, so 18-year-old mentally unbalanced kids, 18-year-olds can go in and buy weapons that actually give them, without any training at all, without any background checks at all, allow them -- i say without any background checks at all. there are background checks, but the sort that you would need for this type of weapon. >> mm-hmm. >> they're allowed to just go into schools with that sort of fire power. you look at the picture, that says it all about where we are right now. our law enforcement officers can be outgunned by mentally

deranged 18-year-olds who can buy a gun like this. makes no sense in america. >> no sense. >> makes no sense in britain. that makes no sense anywhere in any country across the globe. >> can't buy -- >> the fact there are politicians suggesting that somehow, this is what james madison and alexander hamilton and jon jay and our founding fathers had in find when they talked about the second amendment, come on. that's crazy. they know it's crazy. >> now, we have -- >> we'll see if the republicans are going to be responsible or not. i doubt it. >> we have a number of major stories to get to this morning. we did need to take a pause to look at all of this through the lens of where we stand in america. how exceptional we are on guns. we will continue. but still ahead on "morning joe," one of the first people to encounter the uvalde gunman on

the day of the attack says he tried to go after the 18-year-old himself but was told by officers to stay back. we'll show you that exclusive interview. plus, for the first time in a month, russia launches new missiles at kyiv. the very latest on the fighting, and the new threats from vladimir putin. and french president emmanuel macron is facing criticism for warning against humiliating russia. what officials in ukraine had to say about that. also ahead, new concerns over highly contagious coronavirus subvariants spreading across florida. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty. an answer.

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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." a look at new york city. we're going to be getting to a lot of other stories. i want to go to katty first. really quickly, what in the world is going on with macron? he's saying we don't want to humiliate vladimir putin. i'm curious what the reaction is. i know what zelenskyy's reaction has been. what about the rest of europe? when you have this sort of mass slaughter, the attempted genocide, the raping, the war crimes, and macron is saying, oh, let's not embarrass vladimir putin, how is europe reacting to that? >> yeah, this is the role he's tried to play before, macron saying they need an interlocketer with putin, and he's the person who will try to broker a negotiation and settlement. kinzinger over the weekend teased macron, saying he was trying to give putin the feel-goodsies.

it is a split from my conversations with european diplomats, between those who believe there should be a real effort to grind russia down over this, grind putin down over this, win, basically, which is the american position, which is the british position, and others saying, listen, if we humiliate putin, then, you know, he'll act out. he'll do something crazy. if he feels there is no way out, that's when we get into the risk of a nuclear weapon. there is a little bit of a difference between the western allies over how to deal putin. should your take the foot off the pedal a little bit to give him an out so he doesn't use a tactical nuclear weapon, and others like the brits, who are in the forefront of this, are saying he has to be ground into the ground so he can't do this to another country. putin doesn't have a way out. he launched this war with every

atrocity. he's made it impossible for himself to have a way out. macron's position is an outlier in europe, and it is annoying to the europeans. >> yes. speaking of being annoyed, mika wants to get to the boris johnson story in a second. londoners are annoyed by boris johnson. katty, as you know, i'm an anglaphile and long have been. winston churchill's speech after the death of king george vi, talking about looking forward to saying again "long live the queen." from february of 1952, it is amazing, that spectacle this weekend, millions of people once again chanting churchill's words, "long live the queen." he could not have imagined, no one could have imagined, that in 2022, britain would still be

doing it. this past weekend, you had a front row seat, doing it in a magnificent way. >> yeah, i felt so lucky i was standing outside buckingham on air on thursday morning when the queen came out on the balcony. the whole crowd just went wild. and it was a whole long weekend of festifestivities. she didn't show up for everything. she is frail. you can see it, joe, she is frail. she is 96. in a way, this weekend was a chance to say good-bye and thank you for 70 years of incredible service and duty and stoicism that queen elizabeth has given to the country, the commonwealth, and the rest of the world, really, while she is still with us. we saw her again last night. she came out there, lighting all the beacons thursday night. then she came out with her heir, prince charles, and prince william was there, as well, with his children. for brits, this has been an emotional weekend. even for people who are not huge

monarchists, i think there is a respect and fondness for her majesty. for all of us who had aging parents and lost aging parents, just seeing this frail woman out there on the balcony with her family was an emotional moment. it is also everything she has lived through. it's all of our lives. all of those changes that the world has gone through in the last 70 years. one person has not changed, and that's been the queen. >> absolutely. we're going to get to that other breaking story out of london. prime minister boris johnson is facing a no confidence vote that could see him ousted from power. we'll talk to katty about that ahead, as well, and go live to london on that. we'll have more from russia and ukraine, as russia launches a new attack on kyiv. vladimir putin warns the west against sending advanced rocket systems to ukraine. plus, we continue to follow developments in the baby formula crisis. production has restarted at the company whose shut down sparked

the nationwide shortage. how long before shelves are finally restocked? we'll have the very latest on that. it's been agonizing for parents. and the latest in the investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol, as the select committee prepares to open public hearings that will be televised in primetime. ahead of those hearings, the committee's vice chair, congresswoman liz cheney, said the evidence the committee will present will shock the public. >> are you confident that what you have found as a committee will somehow grab the american people by the lapels and say, "wake up. you have to pay attention"? >> i am. you know, the threat, and it is an ongoing threat -- you know, we're not in a situation where former president trump has expressed any sense of remorse about what happened. we are, in fact, a situation where he continues to use even

more extreme language, frankly, than the language that caused the attack. and so people must pay attention. people must watch. they must understand how easily our democratic system can unravel if we don't defend it. >> was it a conspiracy? >> i think, certainly. i mean, if you look at the court filings -- >> do you believe it was a conspiracy? >> i do. it is extremely broad, extremely well organized. it's really chilling. >> then there's this. the chair of the house republican conference, congresswoman elise stefanik of new york, she thinks the hearings will be a moment for maga republicans to shine. here she is speaking with breitbart. >> it is a political witch hunt. we're working closely with president trump and his team, with leader kevin mccarthy, with jim jordan, and really all of the house republicans will be pushing back in a rapid response

fashion. you will see us all over the air waves. we will be setting the record straight and telling the truth to the american people, sharing the facts, and also really pointing out how unprecedented, unconstitutional, and illegitimate this committee is. we have lots of media bookings already set. many of our members are going to shine in this moment. >> joining us now, congressional investigations reporter for the "washington post" jackie alemany. she's an msnbc contributor and has been following this. what's the hope with the charges they could pull together? it could be a compelling show for people who already believe it was an attack on our democracy. then you hear elise stefanik, and you wonder if this will just royal maga republicans and embolden them. >> yeah. it was interesting that elise stefanik came out as the person who is going to defend former

president trump this week as the hearings start, which are a culmination of an almost year's long investigation into the deadly attack, which is going to represent the most comprehensive record that we've seen to date of, you know, the actual event of january 6th in the broader scheme of all of the efforts and schemes that were undertaken by the former president and his allies to overturn the results of the election. you heard liz cheney tell bob costa she thought it was potentially a criminal conspiracy. think that legal argument is going to be the underpinnings of the hearings we hear throughout june. that the president conspired to defraud the american people. but that argument needs to be made in the context of, again, a broader coup that was arranged with various figures like john eastman, trump's attorney, rudy giuliani, another attorney for

the former president, mark meadows, and several key players who assisted the former president in his quest to overturn his defeat. >> you know, jonathan lemire, first of all, elise stefanik, again, you talk about just a complete joke of a pose. look how she was when she first came out. it's been obvious she wants to be the next speaker. she wants donald trump to support her to be the next speaker. i expect kevin mccarthy to be pushed out of the way. you don't have to have spent time in washington to understand what's going on. so she pushes the front of the line. but bad news for her, bad news for a lot of the super maga people or whatever, or bad news for the freaks and wing nuts and

wackos, extremist. the january 6th committee has received worse news, and you can tell us about this, those receipts come from donald trump's chief of staff. those receipts come from other members of the trump team. they have so much information that there is no hoax here, just like there was, again, you're talking about the russia hoax. this is what -- just for people to understand, you know, don't get distracted by -- the idiots use the word "hoax," but you can look at marco rubio's senate intelligence committee report when republicans ran it. they said trump's connections with russia was a national security threat. no hoax there. no hoax here. jonathan, it seems there are even more receipts showing that this was, in fact, a plan by donald trump to overturn a democratic election. >> yeah. first to note on stefanik, people close to her point out over the weekend that donald trump finally got around to endorsing kevin mccarthy for his

congressional seat. withheld endorsement for mccarthy as speaker. we'll follow that in the months ahead. you're right, some of the bold-faced names in trump world made a point of not cooperating with the investigation. well, their phone is dead. mark meadows' text messages are for all of us to see. the committee is pouring through them. mid-level trump staffers did cooperate. they didn't want to face the potential for criminal referral. the committee is sending signals that they feel like they'll be able to tell a compelling story when the hearings start this week, the first in primetime in a few days. they think they can change some minds. we'll have to see if that happens or not. people's opinions on january 6th seem hardened one way or the other. but they feel this is their moment to really make a difference. jackie, i want to go to you. these hearings come at a time when we saw one trump adviser, peter navarro, get indicted, get arrested, pulled off a plane, and he faces legal trouble now.

yet, the department of justice did not provide to prosecute a couple of top trump aides, including dan scavino and the aforementioned mark meadows, former chief of staff to trump, who seems to be at the center of all of this. walk us through their thinking there. it comes at a time that just democrats so, so frustrated at attorney general merrick garland and others in doj for not pursuing this. >> yeah. jonathan, you know, this decision, why it did not make lawmakers on the january 6th committee very pleased, it wasn't quite unexpected. historically, the department of justice has allowed and provided top advisers to a sitting president, have allowed the claims of executive privilege. there was sort of some undercurrents that if the department of justice this time around, despite the unusual circumstances where it was in the case of a former president and the sitting president waived

those claims of executive privilege, that would set a bad precedent going forward, especially in the case that republicans take back the majority or, you know, in 2024, a republican president comes into the white house and follows up this legacy of not protecting people like the chief of staff and not giving them that privacy of, you know, executive conversations and being able to have that candid relationship in the white house. so you're going to hear lawmakers, again, decry this decision. at the end of the day, this measure is a punitive measure. it is not going to actually compel someone to comply with the investigation and ultimately provide any actual testimony and move the investigation forward. at this point, the committee already talked to over 1,000 people. so i'm not necessarily sure how many more people they need to force to compel. that being said, there are some big names who are not going to cooperate at the end of the day. dan scavino, mark meadows,

though he did provide his text messages. but there are big names that might ultimately come through, and potentially in a public way. the former acting attorney general jeff rosen, rich donahue, mark short, greg jacob, the former counsel to the former vice president. i think things will take care of themselves, even out. regardless of, i think, the hardened opinions, the committee is going to tell a compelling story with new evidence and information they have accumulated over the course of a year. >> all right. jackie alemany, thank you very much for coming on this morning. coming up, a number of nba coaches aren't just talking basketball in the aftermath of mass shootings. we're going to play for you the comments coming from the league. plus, first it was disney. now, it's a pro baseball team. florida governor ron desantis is blocking funding for the tampa bay rays over what he calls

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both teams are wearing the shirts. i think we feel strongly as a league that it's time for people to take notice and to take part in what should be a nationwide effort to limit the gun violence that's out there. so the idea behind wearing the shirts for both teams is to make people aware that they can contribute to different gun safety, gun violence prevention groups. the biggest thing, i think, is to vote. if you feel strongly about saving lives and possibly even someone in your own family, get

out and vote. that's the only way that you convince the people we need to convince to start implementing gun safety. 44 past the hour. that was golden state warriors coach steve kerr during a pregame news conference last night, discussing the decision by the warriors and the boston celtics to make a statement about gun violence with their warm-up t-shirts ahead of game two of the nba finals. it is one of the latest examples of sports figures speaking out about the issue in the wake of a rash of mass shootings in the united states. the list also includes former duke men's basketball coach mike k who called it out on his radio show last week. saturday in san antonio, coach

gregg popovich criticized texas lawmakers while speaking at a stand with uvalde rally. >> wouldn't you like to just get one of them in a room? i don't care if it is the attorney general, the lieutenant governor, the governor, one of the senators, get one of them in the room and say, "how many will it take?" a massacre a month? two massacres a week? 15 kids? 24 kids? when we kill 74 sometime, then maybe you'll do something? get off your [ bleep ]! do something. meanwhile, another florida business is facing punishment by the state's republican governor after voicing an opinion. days after the tampa bay rays used its social media feed to raise awareness about gun safety and announced a $50,000 donation to a gun violence prevention group, governor ron desantis vetoed $35 million in funding for a potential spring training

complex for the club. asked about tweets and his subsequent veto, desantis made clear he does not support using taxpayer dollars for pro sports stadiums, but also added, it is also inappropriate to subsidize political activism of a private corporation. joining us now, senior national political reporter for nbc news, mike caputo, and attorney aronberg. >> you're obviously a reporter. i am a guy who is a small government conservative. i have been. i still am. i don't like government on any level stepping in, telling businesses what they should or shouldn't do. we saw in covid he was telling small businesses what they could or couldn't do, school boards what they could or couldn't do, telling walt disney what they can or can't even say inside their own company.

now, a tweet, a tweet. it cost a beloved baseball team a heck of a lot of money because he's vetoes bills because of tweets. it seems to have become more, my words, not yours, extreme by the day. what's going on here? >> well, i think in this specific case, he's kind of logrolling these two things. number one, he wanted to veto a lot of spending because he is a conservative. however, this is a massive budget. there is a lot of government spending here. conservatives traditionally don't like a lot of government spending. $109 billion. he vetoed $1.3 billion. he was looking for things to cut. this is an easy one because a lot of people don't like the idea of subsidizing sports teams. then it was one of these things like, oh, yeah, you know, and they did this. so for him, it was kind of a win-win. you are going to see more of this, though, to your point. saw it with disney. you're going to see it with

other companies that step out of line, in his view. he said, hey, i'm against sports stadiums, but formula 1 and nascar got some tax breaks when the legislation was signed. he's not opposed to giving certain breaks to some sports franchises or enterprises. but in this case, he -- >> yeah. dave aronberg, he did, though, if it were just about the sports stadiums, he could have vetoed it and said, "i don't support giving money to sports stadiums or outfits," when, of course, mark pointed out he does for ones he prefers. again, there is an authoritarian streak here. if you tweet something that a governor doesn't like, he will veto your spending. he will tell you that's why he vetoed the spending. he could have just vetoed it and said, "i don't like sports stadiums." but no, he wants people to know.

he is punishing a public enterprise because of their political views with taxpayer money. same thing again, i talked about it before with disney. talked about it with cruise lines that wanted, at the height of covid, to keep their people safe, to have them wear masks, which any sane doctor would have said, this makes sense. told them they couldn't do that. told small businesses they couldn't have mask mandates if that's how they wanted to run their small business. told school boards what they could or couldn't do despite the fact there's 67 counties in the huge state of florida. i mean, it is craziness. this is not conservative. this is authoritarian. it is plain and simple. conservatives know that. >> yeah, joe. this is just the latest attack against private enterprise by a governor who ran as a pro-business conservative. you know, as you say, he's gone

after social media companies who banned trump. he penalized cruise lines for rekwaring vaccine mandates. punished disney for opposing his don't say gay bill. yes, critics call him an authoritarian. i would say he is more authoritarian curious. he often resembles the socialist dictators he loves to hate, all while labeling our state the free state of florida. he even last week believed the special olympics -- that's a new low -- he said drop the vaccine mandates or you'll face a $27.5 million fine. the special olympics said, we don't want to fight, but they dropped it because they didn't want the legal fees. this is another attack on an american institution. if you're keeping score, he's attacked the special olympics, baseball, mickey mouse, and the first amendment itself. yet, he will be running in 2024 as an america first candidate

for president. you know, that's par for the course in maga world, where it is performance over policy, and the cruelty is the point. >> yeah. marc caputo, things aren't going to get easier for people who cross-run desantis. let's look at this poll. right now, he is sort of in the middle of a political battle with a senior citizen from south florida. we saw the western conservative summit straw poll. straw polls mean little, as mr. lemire suggested last hour. if you don't believe me, just ask president ron paul. but ron desantis ahead in the straw poll over donald trump. we saw the same thing happen out of wisconsin earlier. again, it may not mean a whole lot, just the fact, though, that desantis is doing better than donald trump may not mean much in the future.

we certainly know it means a lot to donald trump. should we expect more positioning by ron esantis moving forward, virtue signaling to the conservative base? >> well, he's managed to stay in the -- i'm wondering if you can hear me. it looks like my skype is cutting in and out. i apologize for that. but it appears that desantis just managed to remain in the national spotlight. he makes conservative hearts go pitter-patter. one of the things he did recently last week was he did a double barreled approach tackling the issues of transgender surgeries, hormones, and puberty blockers. he wants to ban medicaid from funding any of it for transgender people. at the same time, his administration has asked the board of medicine that regulates doctors to essentially make it impossible for a doctor to

perform these various therapies. again, it is puberty blockers, hormones, and in some cases, surgeries, from operating or administering that to minors at all. this is something that is a huge issue in republican politics. you've seen across the nation various senate candidates during the primaries that spent money advertising about transgender-related issues. you'll see it going forward. desantis is going to be a leader in that regard, as well. >> we've also heard from former president trump in his most recent rally, and email statements also talking about these transgender issues. republicans seemingly making it a talking point going forward. dave aronberg, i won't weigh in on the fact that if the tampa bay rays couldn't have a new training facility, it could help their rivals, the red sox. but the governor has to face his race in florida before a

presidential race. you're right, it seems everything is not just aimed at tallahassee but washington. >> he has 105 million reasons to be overconfident in his re-election. that's how much money he's raised thus far, which would be more than any statewide candidate has ever raised in florida by far. the democrats are going to raise just a tiny portion of that. he's looking past this year's re-election toward 2024. things like this, the tampa bay rays, special olympics, yeah, they can hurt him in a general election, but he is so far ahead in money that he doesn't care right now. one interesting thing, if the rays wanted to, they could sue the governor, like disney could sue the governor. under supreme court law, government officials can't retaliate against companies speaking out. 2010, corporations are people and they have the same first amendment rights as people.

so the governor can no more retaliate against the tampa bay rays as they could against the tampa bay rays players for expressing their first amendment right. will they? i don't think so. i think the rays will stay silent, play the game of go along to get along. as marc caputo knows, the governor is so powerful, the state legislature conceded all power to him and don't want to mess around with this. they'll live to play another day. >> i don't know if, of course, we'll find ultimately striking out against private enterprise to be illegal, but i think most floridians, most americans know it's just not right. fascinating to see where that goes in the future. state attorney for palm beach county, dave aronberg, and nbc's marc caputo, thank you both so much. reverend al, i've been looking, i've been fascinated by how extreme republicans have been going. we can talk about guns.

we the look at the polls there. we can look at the polls after the roe v. wade decision was leaked. we can see the numbers are breaking pretty dramatically away from republicans on their positions. you can look at the generic ballot tests where biden's numbers are stuck in the low 40s. yet, democrats have picked up 10, 12, 14 points over republicans in the last several months. we've seen extremism in florida. going after a great baseball team, going after the magic kingdom. at some point, doesn't this extremism catch it with extreme leaders? >> i think it has to catch up after a period of time. i think it is beginning to catch up because it is illogical. at some point, you have people saying, wait a minute, you love babies until they're born?

you protect embryos, but then you cut child care -- >> mental health. >> -- education. after a while, i don't care how conservative one sees themselves as being, they deal with the reality of what you are saying is inconsistent and does not make sense. when you have people now looking at these mass shootings all over the country, not limited to regions, not limited to the same motivations, and you won't even do background checks, yet you want background checks for people to vote in texas, north carolina, after a while, even the most conservative republican says, "this is starting to not make sense. this is cult type of stuff." i think they all will not drink the kool-aid. ahead, we'll have the latest on what is and is not on the table when it comes to gun reform legislation. plus, the women's champion of the french open sends a

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this is a radical position being offered by our friends on the other side of the aisle. they claim that we should support ensuring that people who are in imminent danger to themselves and others, such that they might commit mass murder, have a constitutional right to access a firearm. and to deny them the right would, quote, trample on an individual's due process and second amendment rights. you know who didn't have due process, who didn't have their constitutional right to life respected? the kids at parkland and sandy hook and uvalde and buffalo and the list goes on and on. so spare me the [ bleep ] about constitutional rights. >> democratic congressman david cicilline last week during a house judiciary committee hearing on gun safety legislation.

welcome back to "morning joe." >> by the way, mika. he is so right. i mean, if you look at a gun the wrong way, people go, oh, you're trampling my second amendment rights. there is nothing in any legislation that's being proposed right now, whether you're talking about universal checks, that does anything to infringe on second amendment rights. nothing at all. if you read the constitution, if you read the second amendment, if you read heller, the decision that said second amendment said what the second amendment said, there's nothing in there. the same thing with -- we're not even talking about military style weapons, banning them. but even if you were to regulate them more, other states are doing it. the court has not overruled those. hasn't said that's unconstitutional. what you agree or disagree, that's one thing. to say second amendment rights are being trampled on, that's what everybody says, it's a lie. >> it is. >> it is just a lie. to say red flag laws would

trample on second amendment rights, or moving the age somebody can get a military style weapon. or if you don't like that language, how about this? a weapon that was designed for war. a weapon that was designed to kill people as fast as possible. a weapon that was designed to give people more firepower than police officers have day in and day out. so this is a catch phrase that people have been using for 20, 30, 40 years. it is a lie, just plain and simple. democrats need to start calling that out every single day. republicans who actually care about saving children's lives, care about saving parishioners' lives, care about saving the lives of people at country music concerts, care about saving the lives of people at grocery stores, they need to call out that lie, too. it's a lie, and it is something that republicans, democrats, and independents agree on.

90% of americans, 85%, 87% of americans have believed since sandy hook, in universal background checks. the majority of republicans, the majority of nra members, the majority of, well, all voters. it's just republican politicians in washington and across the country that i guess just can't -- they just can't quit the nra. >> they can't. they want to keep their -- >> people are dying in their district. >> look -- >> they can't quit it because they fear losing a primary more than they fear losing more children in their district. >> that math right there is the god's honest truth. the congressman's frustration is laid out before your eyes here with this as a backdrop. another deadly weekend in america. more than a dozen mass shootings over the past three days. we'll tell you where negotiations stand on efforts to

curb gun violence, on any efforts to get anything done. plus, new signs that possible lawsuits could be on the way for the company that makes the gun that was used in the massacre in uvalde. and we'll go live to london, where news broke overnight that british prime minister boris johnson will face a no confidence vote by members of his own party who are frustrated with his leadership. jonathan lemire, katty kay, and reverend al sharpton are still with us. we turn back to the deadly weekend of shootings in the country. in the past 72 hours, at least 17 people have been killed. nearly 70 were hurt. several of those victims have critical injuries. according to the data from the gun violence archives, there were at least 13 mass shootings from friday through sunday. the independent research group defines a mass shooting as an incident in which four or more people are shot with a weapon, a give up, not including the shooter.

two cities saw the worst of the violence. philadelphia, 3 are dead, 12 wounded late saturday night in a popular downtown district. investigators believe the shooting came after a fight between two men, and most of the victims were innocent bystanders. police say officers found shell casings from five different guns at the scene. so far, no arrests. meanwhile, in chattanooga, tennessee, two people were shot and killed, 12 injured, early sunday morning. one person died after they were hit by a car while trying to flee. this was chattanooga's second weekend in a row of mass shooter violence. today is the 157th day of the year, and there have been at least 246 mass shootings so far. that's an average of 11 per week, just to sort of clear up the math here. there are seven days in a week. 11 mass shootings per week.

>> yeah, it's staggering. the numbers are staggering. reverend al, you know, when a mass shooting happens, as much as it does -- if it's, you know, in a school, if it's in a grocery store, america stops and they watch. of course, they're just shocked and staggered. for some reason, second amendment extremists -- and i say extremists, people who don't give a damn about what the second amendment really says -- but people who are extremists, who are doing the bidding of gun businesses, they'll go, "well, this happens every weekend in chicago. this happens every" -- to which you and i say, "you're damn right it does. you have to bury 2-year-olds. you have to go to funerals for 2-year-olds shot by stray

bullets." you see the shooting in philadelphia, in chattanooga, see the shootings in texas again, see the shootings this weekend again in phoenix, not only in phoenix but also in mesa, and the thing is, that's where most of the killing is done. these weapons of war, we need to regulate them a lot more closely, but most of the shooting and the killing is done by handguns. they're purchased illegally. that's what they don't understand. this is what -- this is what law-abiding gun owners understand. that most of these shootings are being done by people who got guns illegally or got guns when they shouldn't have gotten guns. like the uvalde shooter. but for some reason, the nra and republicans don't want to keep

guns out of criminals' hands. for some reason, they want them to keep being able to go and buy guns without having universal background checks for all gun purchases. and that's what -- you see this, unfortunately, every weekend, the shootings, the killings, the funerals. you take calls. you're on the phone all the time. i just -- i don't understand what political party would not want to ensure that when somebody has a gun, they have that gun legally. >> you hit it right on the head. the fact is that in many of the communities that we serve at national action network and others, this kind of mass shooting, these kinds of killings happen all the time. now that the profile of it has been raised with the mass

shootings, we are, in my opinion, at a real moment that this country is going to have to deal with the fact we've allowed people to go around with whatever background checks that could be made law, whatever kind of regulations that could be, to deal with the fact that you are not safe anywhere now. so it was accepted when it was in certain communities that many lived in of low income or a certain race. now, it has become something that everyone is threatened by, whether it is you in a school, whether you are a child, whether you are at a grocery store. unless we deal with this existential threat, i don't understand where we think this country is going. for a politician to stand up and defend by his silence or inaction, to have this culture of devaluing human life and

allowing people to continue like this, i don't see how we allow them to continue to be in office. i repeat, we love babies until they're born. we might for making women to have babies, then allow people to kill them and we do nothing about it. when we talk about people with mental health, people we just consider hoodlums, none of them could kill if they didn't have easy access to guns. you have to cut off the supply. you have to go after the suppliers. you need law to do that. >> so wisconsin police are investigating the murder of a retired judge who was shot and killed in his home on friday by a gunman with an apparent hit list. police say judge john roamer was found bound with zip ties. there was a self-inflicted gunshot wound. the men had a connection in

2015. the judge sentenced the suspect to six years in prison for armed burglary and firearms charges. investigators say a hit list was found in the suspect's car which targeted prominent politicians, including michigan governor gretchen whitmer, and also senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. the suspect -- the judge took thebench judge retired in 2017. esther knows all too well how dangerous the life of a judge can be. her son daniel was murdered at their home in an attack targeting the judge who was just 20 years old and would have graduated college this year. judge, thank you for coming back on the show. there is so much to your gripping story. you've been working ever since, trying to pass legislation to protect other judges.

since 2020, the daniel security act would at least protect the names and addresses of judges. why hasn't it gone through? >> good morning, mika. thank you, again, for having me. i wish i could answer that question. the daniel judicial security and privacy act is just languishing. you know, for some reason, we can't seem to get it through. it boggles my mind.broken when heard about the judge's assassination. let's call it what it is. it is an assassination. if attempt on my life was an assassination attempt. it is time that our leaders start to lead. i mean this from, you know, again, the bottom of my heart, that i am begging our leaders to step up and do something. that starts with president biden. it starts with, you know, pelosi

and schumer and mcconnell. you know, obviously, it has to be with congress. >> esther, judge salas, tell us, if you could, what exactly the legislation would do. why is it so difficult to get through? >> it is so difficult to get through because, right now, it seems like a very few of our leaders, congressional leaders, want it to include them. they want the law to include members of congress. i say to them, yes, do you deserve to be protected? absolutely. but the daniel bill has been ready for months. it is time to move this bill. if you want a bill, begin to work on it. mirror ours. pass yours. let's not let judges continue to die because we're not taking action, serious action, that would make a difference.

protecting our personally identifiable information would make it harder for them to find us and to kill us. for one reason, by the way, mika, because we're doing our job. >> yeah. >> that's not what america is about. you know, our constitutional system hinges on an independent judiciary. we need congress and we need our leaders to step up and say, "yes, we believe in the rule of law. yes, we believe in democracy. yes, we are going to protect our judges." that is what this country mandates. >> two years later, who is standing in the way of this passing? >> you know, i would say that there are a select few. i personally want to, you know, appeal to all members of congress to work together. i want to say that i know that things are always -- you know, you want something different. you want something added. you want something changed. but this is not about partisan

politics. this is about the rule of law. so i would say to you and to the american people that, you know, our democracy mandates that we do something now. my heart and mark's heart is broken. you know, this is a wound that will never heal. when we see something like what happened to judgeromer, and we think of his family, my prayers and thoughts are with them, the pain they're going through right now. the one thing i want to say, mika, is judge romer, my beautiful boy 20 years old, husbands and mothers, we've had judges now assassinated, i want to say the names. judge woods was killed by a sniper. judge deronko was gardener when the shooter came up to him and shot him several times. judge vance opened, december 16th, a box he thought was a gift and it blew up and killed him instantly. judges are being assassinated,

and it is time now we say enough is enough. enough bloodshed. let us begin to do things to protect our judges and to protect democracy. i just can't tell you how much the news this weekend just hit us and, you know, obviously, we miss daniel so much, but we know that we can't give up the fight. it's been 22 months and 18 days since my boy was taken. and i am asking congress to do something. his anniversary is next month. the anniversary of his murder is next month. you know, i'm going to hold on hope that we can get this bill through by then. i'm going to hold on to all the love and the hope and the faith that i have, and i know we can get this done. >> judge salas, thank you. don't stop. thank you so much for being on this morning. >> thank you. we continue to hear more stories from the massacre in

uvalde. a texas funeral home worker says he was the first to come face-to-face with the school shooter. in an exclusive interview, cody, who helped bury several of the victims, says he tried to go after the gunman but was told by police officers to back away. take a listen. >> the gunman had already entered the school. the cops start showing up. my wife gets there and gives me my gun. i get my gun and start walking toward the school, passing the funeral home. the cops show up. he told me, hey, what are you doing? i'm going to go in and try to stop him. he told me, you stay the [ bleep ] back. i said, look, he's already inside the school. he's like, stay back and shut

the [ bleep ] up. that's what he told me. my intention was to stop him. i mean -- i feel guilty, man. i couldn't stop him. >> we also previously reported the story of a mother who was put in handcuffs after she and other parents urged officers to enter the school. she was eventually released from the handcuffs and made her way into the school by jumping a fence and rescued both of her children. >> if anything, they were being more aggressive on us parents that were willing to go in there and, like i told an officer, i don't need you to protect me. get away. i don't need your protection. if anything, go in there with me to protect my kids. if anything, they were being more aggressive on us. they were more focused on keeping us back than getting into the school. >> gomez also says police tried to stop her from sharing her story. she claimed someone in law enforcement called her and

threatened charges that would violate her probation if she kept talking to reporters. but the judge in the case told gomez he was going to reduce her probation time because of her bravery. the father of one of the uvalde victims and a school staffer have taken initial steps that could lead to lawsuits against the company that manufacturers the semiautomatic rifle used in last month's attack. lawyers for alfred garza, the father of 10-year-old amerie jo garza, sent a letter asking the company to provide information about its marketing to teens and children. the assault style rifle used in the uvalde shooting was purchased legally from a federally licensed gun dealer. by an 18-year-old. in a separate action, marin, a teacher at the school,is

seeking an order for the company to turn over documents relating to the marketing. marin was initially accused of leaving the door propped open that allowed the gunman to enter. it was proved she later closed the door but it didn't automatically lock as it was supposed to. there were questions about the school, the decisions made in the school, whether the lock worked, whether the police were too scared to go in, the terrible call by the top officer, the chief of police, not to go in immediately and confront the gunman, but the bottom line is, the massive of amount of military style weapons out there, easily available, that have left police departments outgunned completely. there are arguments to be made that the entire police department could have been mowed down by the weapons, plural,

this 18-year-old gunman purchased, one on his birthday, and then all the ammo and then another gun within a few weeks later. ridiculous. >> yeah. i mean, it is ridiculous that we americans have allowed one party in america to allow gun manufacturers and their lobbyists on k street in washington, d.c., to actually put law enforcement officers in a position where they are outgunned by an 18-year-old who buys a military style weapon designed for war. i've said this before, i said it a couple weeks ago, and i'll say it again. this style weapon deadlier than what we had our soldiers carry around during vietnam. but we actually have one

political party in america that will not allow us to do anything to move forward, to give police officers the ability to go in. and i think, more importantly, to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, to keep guns out of the hands of people who are mentally deranged, keep guns out of the hands of people -- especially military style weapons out of the hands of people who are not trained and who are not capable of having those guns. the only reason people purchase those guns -- i've had these debates before. i had it after sandy hook. they used to be afraid to tell you this, but now they're just admitting it out loud. it's because they're so paranoid. they want to be able to kill cops. they want to be able to kill u.s. troops. they want to be able to kill people coming to their homes if

they're breaking the law. they want to have more firepower than the federal government. they want to have more firepower than local cops. they want to be able to kill law enforcement officers. they want to be able to kill people who protect this country. that's where we are right now. it is absolutely crazy. again, this reality brought to you by this republican party who refused to do anything after sandy hook, who refused to do anything after, well, what happened in parkland. refused to do anything after what happened in el paso. refused to do anything. now, they're refusing to do anything after uvalde. maybe around the margin, some senators, a few republican senators may do something around the margins, but why not stop 18-year-olds from being able to get weapons of war?

why not pass universal background checks? why not pass the toughest, most aggressive red flag laws possible so we can make sure that only law-abiding citizens, that only sane citizens have weapons? it is interesting, katty kay, the last story mika read talked about a lawsuit that they're thinking about passing -- i mean, that some parents are thinking about pursuing against the gun manufacturer that they believe are responsible in large part for this mass care. you know, not so many years ago, that would have been unheard of. people would have said, oh, they'll never, ever succeed. not the case. sandy hook parents won a $73 million verdict. actually, got a settlement from remington. they got $73 million from remington but also, very important for them, they got a trove of internal documents that remington had to release.

so there may be a way forward for some of these parents to actually hold these gun makers accountable and hit them in the only place that they really care about, and that is their bottom line. >> yeah. i mean, the sandy hook parents faced disappointment after disappointment up on capitol hill, right? they haven't managed to get the things done that they thought in those days after the killing we thought maybe things would change on capitol hill. it didn't. but that suit against remington, the success of being able the do that, is one of the things sandy hook parents point to as something they have had as a success. we've seen around the country, at local levels, in terms of the industry itself, there have been some changes that people who advocate more gun safety would say have been a movement that has happened that has been progress. it's just here in washington that nothing can get done. we have to -- you know,

increasingly, joe, when it looks to big things in america, whether it is climate change, whether it is gun control, major issues, you cannot look to washington to movement. you have to look to the state level. you have to look to the private sector. you have to look to groups like the sandy hook parents being able to win this suit against remington. that'll be a model now for the parents in uvalde. it doesn't stop the next shooting, but it does mean that the gun industry, if you hit them on their bottom line hard enough, perhaps they'll be held accountable and will be forced to do something. >> it's just -- we're so exposed at this point. globally, we are the leaders of the world in this problem. it is so obvious that guns are a major factor. yet, they won't do simple legislation, let alone collective, real, effective legislation. maybe a massive gun buyback. i mean, the toothpaste is way out of the tube, and it has been for years. we are suffering the

consequences every day. this is going to come to a home or a school or a public place near you inevitably at the rate we're going. still ahead on "morning joe," oscar winning actor matthew mcconaughey pens an emotional response to the school shooting in his hometown of uvalde and calls for action on guns. we'll take a look at that brand-new piece. plus, as investigations brought by bill barr come up, the former attorney general admits he didn't tap john durham to prosecute criminal behavior. dana millback joins us for the latest column for the "washington post." and pope francis stokes speculation about his possible retirement. we'll have that new reporting ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. finding the perfect developer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in prague, between the perfect cup of coffee

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33 past the hour. former attorney general bill barr met with the committee investigating the january 6th attack last week. he was spotted on capitol hill thursday leaving a conference room used by the panel to conduct interviews. he declined to comment to reporters. meanwhile, barr did comment on the failed prosecution of the former hillary clinton attorney charged with lying to the fbi. it was a charge brought by barr's appointed investigation into the origins of the trump/russia probe. columnist for the "washington post" joins us now and talks about this in "bill barr's reign of inuendo unmasked." a jury deliberated for just six hours before reaching a

unanimous verdict, acquitting former hillary clinton campaign lawyer michael sussman, leaving the barr special prosecutor john durham with essentially nothing to show for his years' long attempt to find wrongdoing by the fbi and the clinton campaign in the trump/russia probe. hours after the jury dismissed it, buzzfeed published a previously secret justice department report, also ordered by barr, in which his own doj concluded that the obama administration didn't intend to expose the identity of trump national security adviser michael flynn for political purposes or other inappropriate reasons. it was further evidence that another favorite trump claim enabled by barr, that obama officials engaged in illegal unmasking, was bunk. the day after these twin

repudiations of barr's fantasies, the hoaxster explained himself on fox news, arguing the failure in court was, in fact, a triumph. he did not succeed in getting a conviction from the d.c. jury, barr said, i think he accomplished something far more important. [ laughter ] what, joe, might that be? >> i don't know. but i know we at "morning joe" accomplished something. we've read dana's article in full so you don't have to. thank you for being with us. i'm a simply country lawyer, as you know. a generalist who gives generalists bad names. i'm a generalist. but i remember one of durham's last pleadings. it was impenetrable. i kept reading it over, and mika will tell you, i don't go around

reading legal pleadings and then calling lawyers for the next 24 hours. but that's what i did. i didn't want to go with it the next day. we held off the date, but it seemed to be such utter nonsense, virtue signaling. we get to the end of this story, at the end of the day, he's writing pleadings, he's bringing charges, as barr says, not to get convictions but to virtue signal. so you can get pro trump outlets writing outrageously false stories. why is merrick garland allowing this nonsense to continue? >> well, i think durham is taking care of discrediting himself well enough without merrick garland giving him the hook right now. but, you know, i think barr made sort of that classic michael kinsley gaffe of telling the truth. it'd be well and good if he could get prosecutions in this

case, but far more important is to tell the story. isn't that what bill barr was doing all along for trump? he is continuing to do it. you know, sitting on the mueller report and then giving his summary, which wasn't really a summary, but gave a very different impression. told a very different story from the one that mueller had put out, even though mueller, in fact, had won a large number of convictions. you see that in the unmasking case. they found no wrongdoing but sat on the report. didn't put that out at all until buzzfeed got it. now we're hearing the real purpose of durham's investigation is virtue signaling, to tell a story and provide talking points for fox news. this was actually what barr was describing as the relatively easy case rather than proving there was something nefarious going on at the fbi. he said that was going to be virtually impossible to prove in

the first place. i think he is really sort of exposed what his motivations were here. >> well, you know, dana, your column is so important because it was one of these moments where we need to just stop, step back, and look at what's preceded us. as the russians would say, look at the fire hose of falsehoods. you are so right to bring up a pattern. first you had the mueller report. he held it, then he put out his summary which mueller and everybody else associated with it knew wretched the words of that report from their proper context. you bring up the point, and it is so important, michael flynn, there was no obama efforts to unmask michael flynn. barr admitted it, that was on the up and our. then we get the trump outlets and the headlines saying that it is true, it is true, clinton spied on trump.

we find out that, too, is a lie. then as you said, barr accidentally tells the truth, commits that washington gaffe by saying, "oh, we don't want -- we don't need convictions. we're just virtue signaling." taken all in all, what a damning record for barr. what a damning record for all of these people who have been reporting these lies. >> yeah. joe, it actually has worked. you know, as you lay it out that way, you know the old saying, a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still lacing up its shoes. think about what happened here. you know, we finally have this admission after the fact that, okay, it wasn't about a legal matter. it wasn't really about wrongdoing. it was just about trying to put political cases out there. but they did get that political case out there unchallenged because this was the justice department with the authority of the justice department saying this day after day, week after week, and it being echoed. so now, this sort of corrective

comes out a couple years after trump is out of office, but i would bet in the minds of most americans, they thought there was something going on there with russiagate. or they thought there was something going on there with the unmasking. >> dana, good morning. jonathan lemire. let's pitch forward a little bit here. what sort of legacy do you think bill barr has? how damaging, perhaps, is it to the reputation of the department of justice going forward? part two of that, let's say a donald trump or a donald trump disciple were to become president in 2024. what are your fears as to what he or she would want his attorney general to operate? >> two things. the damage to the justice department is incalculable. if you want to make a political statement particularly with a case you expected you'd lose, you are in violation of justice

department policy. that's essentially what barr was having his lawyers do in this case. it's yet more damage to the justice department. you know, damage to barr's reputation, i think that ship sailed a long time ago. he decided he didn't want to be the elder statesman, the two-time attorney general going back to george h. w. bush. he wanted to cast his lot with trump. he has done that. now we see the january 6th commission meeting with him. that's one area where, in his book, he thought it was in his interest to disassociate himself with trump. although, if i'm the january 6th committee, i'm not sure exactly what i would believe coming out of the mouth of bill barr. >> "washington post" columnist dana milbank, thank you very much. >> thanks. coming up, ukraine loses its bid to compete for the world cup but retains support for its fight against russia. we'll show you the scene at yesterday's qualifying match. we'll also have the latest from the fighting in eastern europe, as moscow renews its

attack on kyiv. vladimir putin warns the west against providing military aid. we'll go live to london where british prime minister boris johnson faces a vote of no confidence today that could see him removed from office. "morning joe" is coming right back. so this is the meta portal plus. a smart video calling device that makes working from home work. a 12-megapixel lens makes sure your presentation is crystal clear. and smart camera auto pans and zooms to keep you perfectly in frame. oh, and it syncs with your calendar. plus, with zoom, microsoft teams, and webex, you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. now that's a productive day. meta portal: make working from home work for you.

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ranked's poland player defeated coco gauff to claim her second title. during her post-match speech, she extended a message of hope for the war-torn country. >> i want to at the end say something to ukraine, just stay strong. the world is still there. >> poland, of course, has opened its arms to so many refugees from ukraine. the ukrainian national soccer team, their quest for the world cup is over. an own goal scored in the first half qualifier would be the team's undoing in a 1-0 loss to wales. the spirit of the crowd remained with the losing side. after the final whistle, fans chanted, "glory to ukraine" in a show of support for the country's fight against russia.

the top of the hour, we'll have the latest on the war in ukraine, including new attacks on kyiv. and british prime minister boris johnson will face a vote of confidence later today. it was triggered by members of his own party. the vote comes as johnson continues to face backlash over parties held at 10 downing street during covid lockdowns. joining us live from the westminster nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk. stephanie, what more can you tell us about this? >> reporter: mika, this is how this is going to play out today. there's going to be a vote, 6:00 to 8:00 tonight in london. that's 1:00 to 3:00 in the states. the conservative party, everyone who is here in london, will be able to cast a ballot. now, what's interesting about this vote, it is in secret. they'll put out a ballot box. everyone casts their vote, whether they have confidence or no confidence in boris johnson. they'll tally the votes. british public will have no idea who voted what unless they go

public with it. that's done because they don't want ministers to be worried about some sort of fear of retribution, depending on what their vote may be. now, the threshold is 108. if 180 conservative mps vote against boris johnson, he is kicked out of office. doesn't mean there is no leader here in this country. the process will take weeks. boris johnson continues to be prime minister during that time. now, what's interesting here, as well, is that if he wins this vote, it could be a question of margins here, whether or not he stays prime minister. because if it is really close, imagine having maybe 40% of your party against you at a given time, there will be an enormous amount of pressure for him to step down in the coming weeks and months. keep an eye on that. as stubborn as boris johnson can be, he may not be able to withstand that pressure down the road. >> we've been hearing about these parties for some time, that happened back during the height of covid. i'm curious about the timing

now. are they concerned about local races that appear to be going against them? what's precipitated this sudden movement toward the no confidence vote now? >> reporter: one big reason, joe, is this report this sudden movement toward the no-confidence movement now? >> well, one big reason, joe, is this report that came out last month that was conducted and looked at at a series of parties during the height of covid and it included a birthday party for boris johnson and garden parties that all seemed to break the rules and you weren't allowed to get in groups unless there was essential business. at these parties there was alcohol and food which had the impression of not being entirely essential and boris johnson said he didn't attend any of them and it turned out he had pictures and he had to come out and said

i did and i regret attending them. he had to do backtracking, as well. in the weeks since that came out. members of his party has come public. one of them said there was a casual lawbreaking. >> stephanie gosk in a noisy london. thank you so much for being with us and demonstrators behind her, of course. the party and so many people in britain have been completely fine with it. why is now different? >> well, while he can win

elections convincingly, the conservative party is prepared to tolerate all of those things that boris does. the question now for the tory party is it's ruthless and laser focused on whether they can win or not win is how popular boris johnson is. if he's not popular with voters anymore then they don't want to have him around anymore. all of the signs are that he'll win this no-confidence vote, but that's not a massive reassurance to him. teresa may won a no confidence vote and she was out of office six months later. so having a no confidence vote and knowing that there are dozens of your own member was your own party who don't support you really chips away at boris johnson's authority and this is a reflection of where the british party is. if the public doesn't want boris johnson, then the conservative party won't want him either. >> i'm curious, katy. could it be that labor has

possibly righted its ship after being led disastrously for a decade or so? >> so labor is in a better position than it was under jeremy corbin. it seems to be doing better in the polls, but it's not a huge threat to the tory party at the moment. there are hangovers of brexit here around the united kingdom, whether brexit is actually working and business people finding it very differ cult to do business with europe. people up in the north of the country who switched from voting labor to voting conservative now finding they're not getting as much out of the johnson government that they were expecting and looking like they might jump again to the labor party. so there's some of that going on, but a lot of this is about boris johnson and those parties and people were really fed up with what they felt was hypocrisy from 10 downing street when they were suffering so much under very strict lockdowns.

>> up next. we'll have the latest from ukraine following the first attack in the country's capital in more than a month and we'll be joined by "the atlantic's" anne applebaum who argues in her latest peace of all of the talk of giving vladimir putin a so-called off ramp is pretty much pointless. plus, an update of where gun negotiations stand this morning after another weekend of gun violence and mass shootings across the country. ♪♪ ♪♪ okay season 6! aw... this'll take forev—or not. do i just focus on when things don't work, and not appreciate when they do? i love it when work actually works! i just booked this parking spot... this desk... and this conference room! i am filing status reports on an app that i made! i'm not even a coder!

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that delta is no longer a factor in the state and that omicron and its sub variants are spreading at increasingly high levels. health officials say three in four florida residents live in a high-risk county. still ahead, hearings of the january 6th capitol attack come to prime time this week. we'll tell you what republican liz cheney is saying about the evidence. we're back in one minute. ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ when combined with diet and exercise. plenity is not a drug - it's made from naturally derived building blocks and helps you feel fuller and eat less. it is a prescription only treatment and is not for pregnant women or people allergic to its ingredients. talk to your doctor or visit myplenity.com to learn more. finding the perfect project manager isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found him. he's in adelaide between his color-coordinated sticky note collection

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since sandy hook. >> that is democratic senator chris murphy discussing where negotiations stand right now on efforts to reform gun laws. he says only modest changes are being discussed like dealing with mental health, school safety and red flag laws. the gun talks come amid another deadly weekend of mass shootings across the country. at least 17 people have been killed, nearly 70 injured since friday. nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez has more. [ shots fired ] >> this morning newly released video captures the moment gunshots rang out in philadelphia. kills three people and leaves 11 others wounded. >> horrendous and unthinkable acts. >> 12 more people were injured and two others killed by gun

fire at a nightclub. >> there will be multiple shooters and we cannot confirm how many, but there's definitely more than one. >> the back-to-back deadly shootings capping a weekend of gun violence across the nation. since friday there have been 13 mass shootings across country according to the gun violence archive which defines four or more shot, not including the shooter. eight injured and in summerton, south carolina, one person was killed and seven others injured including five minors. >> i'm furious, not just for my neighborhood. for the whole country. >> it comes less than two weeks after a lone gunman killed 19 children and two teachers at robb elementary in uvalde, texas. >> he looks right back at me with that evil look, and i see this rifle. >> cody briseno tells nbc news he locked eyes with the shooter moments before the gunman began his rampage inside the school. >> i feel guilty, man, because i

couldn't stop him. >> the immense pain felt in uvalde, buffalo, tulsa and a growing other communities pressure congress as they hope to present a bipartisan gun reform package by the end of the week and some on both sides are cautiously optimistic. >> it feels to me that we're closer than i've been in the senate. >> we can deliver at a moment of just fierce anxiety among the american public. we are closer than ever before. >> that's nbc's gabe gutierrez with that report. >> jonathan o'mere, did anything stop happening since children were slaughtered at sandy hook and after shoppers were slaughtered at a walmart in el paso, stopped doing anything as we've seen one tragedy after another. this year, 240 mass shootings. i just can't even believe the number. already this year, 240 mass

shootings in five months in the past five months. the question is we understand what's not going to happen. chris murphy has told us what's not going to be done. i'm curious, though, the fact that republicans are even talking about anything. the fact that jon cornyn is talking, with what has shifted. >> it's hard to fathom the gun deaths. to this point, any changes came at the state level, in the northeast in particular tightened their gun laws dramatically after sandy hook. florida did after parkland and they made changes as well which is florida is the example that democrats are trying to use saying this is the role model here. let's do this. this should be palatable for the national gop. there's been so much pressure in the wake of guns that there are

some republicans who say, look, we need to be able to do something here. this might actually draw the wrath of voters down the road if we don't. though, the republican with the loudest megaphone, mitch mcconnell is doing something about safety and not guns. there is a sense as senator murphy said, this is still fluid. we might be another week or so before we know and things can fall in or out of the bill and no paperwork drawn yet and the hope is expanded background checks. if not universal, that's probably not going to happen. expanded background checks and they won't be able to raise the age to buy an automatic weapon and they're hoping to get some things across the bill to show some sort of progress even incremental. >> god. >> you know, mika, it is interesting. we heard the news of the

republican in the buffalo area that talked about getting rid of military-style weapons and a week later he has to resign and a week later he's driven out of office and maybe he should have struck around a couple of more weeks because you look in florida and the florida legislature about one of the most conservative and i don't really say conservative, but in many ways far right-wing legislatures in america after parkland there were gun reforms and there were some very conservative members of congress, republicans who voted for a so-called assault weapon ban and then got re-elected no problem. so we can write these story about how members of congress were chased off because they dared to speak out against guns. no, they didn't stay in and actually keep their name on the

ballot to see how voters would have responded because florida is an example of how people who are on the far right of the ideological spectrum can actually vote for sane, rational gun legislation and get re-elected. >> you can only hope that we will get something done. we want to turn now to russia's vladimir putin making new threats over the united states sending ukraine advanced long-range weapons. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel has the very latest. >> good morning. russian president vladimir putin warned the united states and nato not to send ukraine more advanced weapons or he'll expand the war. >> speaking on russian television, president putin promised to strike unspecified new areas if ukraine's western allies supply it with rockets that can fire hundreds of kilometers into russia. perhaps to prove he's serious, russia bombed kyiv this weekend

for the first time in weeks. there were no immediate reports of deaths. the united states has agreed to equip ukraine with modern artillery and rockets, but for now, washington is not supplying the advanced munitions putin appears to be warning about. president zelenskyy has promised not to fire american weapons on to russian soil. this weekend, he visited ukrainians displaced by the fighting and rallied soldiers out in the country's south and east where ukrainian forces are facing their biggest challenge of the war so far. russian troops have encircled a pocket of the donbas region. they're pushing toward the center to close a gap still held by ukrainian forces. ukrainian-american miro popovich fought for the united states and afghanistan, became a citizen with the g.i. bill and has returned home to fight for his country. he says after failing to take

kyiv early in the war, russian troops changed strategy. >> i think they re-evaluated their capabilities. they brought much more artillery, more rockets, more soldiers and it looks like its soldiers are never-ending. we keep wiping them away and still they bring more. you know, it's like a dragon, you slash his head and three more grows. it's pretty much the same thing here. >> are ukrainian troops will be able to hold on? i think so. i hope so. they are pushing. we are strong, as well, plus we have the support, equipment from the middle east, from the states. >> all right. joining us now, staff writer at the atlantic and applebaum, an associate professor of global politics at the university college london, brian closs. he is a contributing writer for "the atlantic" and on the heels

of emmanuel macron, french president said we have to worry about humiliating vladimir putin, that it's potentially a danger to humiliate him and talk of giving him after off ramp, i want to read from your latest piece from "the atlantic." it's entitled the war won't end unless putin loses and you write in part this, the wrest should not aim to offer putin an off ramp, our goal, our endgame should be defeat. in fact, the only solution that offers some hope of long-term stability in europe is rapid defeat or even to borrow macron's phrase, humiliation. military loss could create a real opening for self-examination or for a major change as it so often has done in russia's past. only failure can persuade the russians themselves to question the sense and purpose of a colonial ideology that has

repeatedly impoverished and ruined their own economy and society as well as those of their neighbors for decades, and yet so many are worried about him needing to save face and can you explain why it doesn't work? >> so, first of all, there's no evidence that putin wants an off ramp as you just showed in your introduction there. he's now once again bombing kyiv. he's issuing aggressive threats. as far as we can tell, his goals remain the same, to make ukraine an invalid state, to remove ukraine from the map, to hold eastern ukraine and eventually to conquer kyiv and the rest of the country. he's changed his tactics, but he hasn't changed his war aims and so offering him a way out now is a way of saying, okay, you can have a cease-fire. you can rest and recover and then allowing him to try again which is what happened in 2014.

he needs to understand and it's not really just him, the broader elite and the rest of the country that this is a pointless war that is a disaster for them and that it is a disaster for the world and this idea that russia has to be an imperial power that dominates its neighbors has to be abandoned and really only when we get to that moment will we be able to talk about really having peace in the region. >> and anne, if you could just provide context because you know the history better than anybody, you know, i read some -- some things that dr. brzezinski had written back in the '70s and the '80s a month or two ago just to get insight on what was going on now and he wasn't describing soviet leadership in 1983. he was describing vladimir putin from 2008 to 2022. this is russia's history. this is who they are, and so can

you talk about how ridiculous it is for us to suggest that vladimir putin all of of a sudden going to become westernized and that he's not going to continue going into ukraine, trying again to subvert the will of the people there? >> so i should say that i don't think any country is condemned by its history. i don't think anything is inevitable and i don't think anyone is trapped by the past, but it is true that putin is captivated by the soviet past and by the russian imperial past. russia is a country that has grown to the extent that it has through conquest over many centuries. the soviet union continued that. putin was a kgb officer in the 1980s at a time when the soviet empire extended into germany. remember, he spent many years in east germany as a member of an occupying force. so he remembers a russia that extended well into europe, and

he seems to want to repeat that to put it back together, pulling in ukraine and belarus and creating a state, and he said that very --. he speaks often of the past. he tries to evoke the past conquest, world war ii and czarist-era victories. he has decided to adopt this and it doesn't mean a follower of his and the folly of russia's imperial aims just as other empires in the past have ceased to be empires. there's no british empire. no french empire. most states have made peace with the idea and respected their borders and that's why we've had peace and prosperity in europe for the last decades and russia needs to be a normal state and not an empire that continues to spread.

>> well, and brian, of course, as anne said, russians shouldn't be trapped by their history and i've always been fascinated by russia not just its history and it's literature, it's art and musing, but you have a lead here who is livering and not in 1988 and just look at what's happened over the last 30, 40 years with the soviet union and russia. they are the sick man of europe as what was once said of the ottoman empire. their economy has collapsed. they have an -- a gdp you will smaer than the state of texas, and their military has been humiliated by ukraine. doesn't that just make it all the more dangerous that you have a man living in the czarist past

who has an ever-weakening country that he's running? >> it is dangerous, but it's probably more dangerous to not defeat him. the dynamic would somehow get better if he was given the quote, unquote, magical offramp in which he seems to have one is farcical. the reality that this is not just a lesson that has to be established for vladimir putin and it's a lesson established for autocrats around the world. when you hold countries hostage and you murder civilians and you disrupt food supplies and try to extort and steal wheat from a country during a time of high wheat prices globally, there are consequences for those things, and i think the united states is in this global moment right now where it has to make a choice. are we going to stand up now or are we going to continually debate why are we in this situation three years ago. i think some of the missteps

that have been put in place of past acts of russian aggression are precisely of why we are here today is because the off ramp mentality prevailed. what's different this time to the biden administration's credit they have sent a lot of lethal aid to ukraine. they've sent serious weapons which wasn't the case. to back down now after getting should invested after humiliating vladimir putin would be catastrophic for the world. >> the bet that putin seems to be making is that he can outlast the west, that the west resolve will weaken and so far in the u.s. we're not seeing that and only fringes on the far right saying, hey, we're giving up too much to ukraine and he's betting with rising fuel prices, rising food prices and as the weather gets cooler again this fall, that will be a real issue in europe that europe will start to cave, and we are seeing not just macron saying, hey, we don't want to humiliate them and other leaders pushing, is it a time,

zelenskyy we start looking for a way out of this. give us your read in europe as to whether those capitals will continue to be a steadfast against russia if this goes on for months and months and months. >> well, there is a huge amount of political pressure. boris johnson is facing for an unrelated reason a vote of no-confidence potentially this evening and there is pressure on cost of living crises in europe, et cetera. the fact that russia can outlast the west is a mistake in view and the economy is much smaller and it's between italy's and mexico's. the idea that we'll be pushed around economically by a country of that economic power is ludicrous so it's a question of political will and i would put it as a question that's long term versus short term pain. i think we'll have serious economic and energy-based crises if we don't sort this issue out now because as households are having to deal with rising fuel

prices there's now pressure on the biden administration to soften, perhaps, on venezuela, iran or other autocratic states that have major oil reserves and so the question is do we want to live in a world where we are per perpetually beholden and that's why we have to endure pain because there will be much more pain down the road if vladimir putin doesn't learn his lesson this time. >> what the short term pain should be and putin, you're right, shows no signs that he wants to negotiate or that he wants an off ramp. the question i hear from diplomats is what does it look like when a nuclear power loses and that's clearly what the big problem is, right? it's one thing to say we have to make sure that russia loses this time around. russia can't be allowed to win, but what does it look like when

they have as many nukes as they do? do you think that russia is in a position where they would ever think of using those nukes or where do you think that stands, the whole question of the nuclear weapons? >> so i was much more worried about nuclear weapons at the beginning of the war when it wasn't clear exactly how putin was thinking and how rational he was. as the war progressed, as we saw them make the rational decision, for example, to withdraw from the north of kyiv, to change their battle tactics. it became clear that they're thinking rationally and they're making rational military decisions, and the use of a nuclear weapon would not either help their war aims nor would it help their larger goal of re-creating russian glory. it would alienate them immediately from allies, and countries like india who have tried to remain neutral during the war. i don't see they have an interest in doing that. at the same time, we know those

observing russian military moves also say they're not making preparations to use nuclear weapons at all. i don't see that as a real threat. at the same time, putin controls the entire narrative inside russia. all television stations and all newspapers and most social media will write what he wants them to write. so if he decides to end the war, if he stops the war, he can tell russians whatever he wants about it, he can make up whatever story, whatever narrative he wants and i don't think it's our problem to worry about how he's going to sell this to the russians or how he's going to explain it. he will do it. he will go on creating whatever reality that he wants and we should focus on winning the war, making sure that ukraine has a stable future, that it becomes a country that people want to return to and that can prosper and let putin worry about how he's going to sell this at home. >> before you go, i want to just

get your latest take on europe or european allies. how the west is holding up. we've heard a lot of talk about what's happening in germany, sweden and nato. how is the nato alliance holding up? how is the eu holding up? thoughts about poland obviously taking in an extraordinary number of immigrants, perhaps something that we couldn't have imagined six months ago. give me your take, if you can. >> it's important to be nuanced. each country has a slightly different attitude. i do think, overall that the alliance is holding up extremely well. there is a lot of enthusiasm for nato. even those countries that are -- that sound different diplomatically or publicly, for example, france are still supporting ukraine so the french

continue to send weapons to ukraine even though macron is trying to speak to putin and negotiate and by the way, i don't think negotiations are bad or wrong it's just that they need to have a clear goal. i'm not sure they do yet. the germans, the german public seems to be ahead of the german government. they want germany to push harder and send more weapons and be more supportive. that's a very interesting, important and profound change in german attitude. those two poorer countries in western europe are somewhat better than the public debate sometimes indicates. in poland, the enthuiasm for helping ukraine and ukrainians is very high. they've had refugees in their house somehow supporting them including me and that seems to be something people are willing to do. there is an economic price being

paid not only from the war, but more generally from inflation that might cause problems for all european governments in the past, but so far right now it's not causing people to question the broader policy towards ukraine. >> all right. anne applebaum, thanks so much. we'll be reading your new piece for "the atlantic." brian, thank you, as well and the twins. what gives, man, they're winning? >> they are. they're atop the central. not so bad this year. >> not so bad this year at all. >> all right. go, twins. mika, what do we have coming up next. still ahead on "morning joe" this week the january 6th committee lays out the case against the former president and his supporters and one republican is calling the prime time hearings a must-watch. also ahead, florida governor ron desantis takes on another big name in his state. why he is blocking millions in funding from the tampa bay rays

baseball team, and it's shaping up to be a bounceback monday on wall street. we'll have more on what's fueling the rally and other business headlines with cnbc's andrew ross sorkin. that's in the fourth hour of "morning joe." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪♪ ♪♪ and neither will she. meta portal, make working from home work for you. wow! it's been 38 years since we were here. back then we could barely afford a hostel. i'm glad we invested for the long term with vanguard. and now, we're back here again... no jobs, no kids, just us. and our advisor is preparing us for what lies ahead. only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor you're an owner. giving you confidence throughout today's longer retirement. that's the value of ownership. (music)

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welcome back. now to the latest in the investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol. as the select committee prepares to open public hearings that will be televised in prime time. ahead of those hearings the committee's vice chair, congresswoman liz cheney said the evidence the committee will present will shock the public. >> are you confident that what you have found as a committee will somehow grab the american people by the lapels and say wake up, you have to pay

attention? >> i am. you know, the threat and it's an ongoing threat. we are not in a situation where former president trump has expressed any sense of remorse about what happened. we are, in fact, in a situation where he continues to use even more extreme language, frankly, than the language that caused the attack and so people must pay attention. people must watch and they must understand how easily our democratic system can unravel if we don't defend it. >> was it a conspiracy? >> i think certainly, i mean, look, if you look at the court filings -- >> do you believe it was a conspiracy? >> i do. it is extremely broad. it is extremely well organized. it's really chiing. >> and then there's this, the chair of the house republican conference congresswoman elise stefanik of new york, she thinks

the hearings will be a moment for maga republicans to shine. here she is speaking with breitbart. >> it is a political witch hunt. we're working very closely with president trump and his team and leader kevin mccarthy and jim jordan and all of the house republicans who will be pushing back and you will see us all over the airwaves and we will be setting the record straight and sharing the facts and how unprecedented and unconstitutional and illegitimate this committee is and we have lots of media bookings already set, and i know many of our members are going to shine in this moment. >> joining us is congressional investigators reporter jackie alemany. she's an msnbc contributor and she's been following all of this. what's the hope and the charges, perhaps that they can pull together in these hearings. clearly, it could be a compelling show for people that

already believe it was an attack on our democracy and then you hear elise stefanik and you wonder if this will just royal maga republicans and embolden them? >> mika, it was interesting that elise stefanik came out to defend former president trump this week as the hearings start which is the culmination of almost a year's long investigation into the deadly attack which is going to represent the most comprehensive record that we've seen to date of the actual event of january 6th in the broader scheme of all of the efforts and schemes that were undertaken by the former president and his allies, to overturn the results of the election and you heard liz cheney say, tell bob costa that she thought it was potentially a criminal conspiracy, and they're the underpinnings that we hear

since june that they conspired to defraud the american people, but that argument needs to be made in the context of, again, a broader coup that was arranged with various figures like john eastman, trump's attorney, rudy giuliani, and another attorney for the former president mark meadows and several key players who assisted the former president in his quest to overturn his defeat. >> jackie, i want to go to you. this comes, though, these hearings at a time when we saw one trump adviser, peter navarro get indicted, get arrested and pulled off a plane even and he faces legal trouble now, but yet the department of justice did not decide to prosecute a couple of top trump aides to dan scavino and mark meadows when seems like he's the center of all of this, walk us through their thinking there and it comes at a time when democrats are so, so frustrated at attorney general merrick garland and others for doj for not

pursuing us. >> jonathan, this decision, while it did not make lawmakers on the january 6th committee very pleased, it wasn't quite unexpected. historically the department of justice has allowed and provided top advisors to a -- to the former -- to a sitting president and have allowed claims of executive privilege and there was sort of some undercurrent that if the department of justice this time around despite the unusual circumstances where it was in the case of a former president and the sitting president waved those claims of executive privilege, that it would set a bad precedent going forward especially in the case that republicans take back the majority or in the case that, you know, in 2024, a republican president comes into the white house and follows up this legacy of not protecting people like the chief of staff and not giving them that privacy of, you

know, executive conversations and being able to have that candid relationship in the white house. so you're going to hear lawmakers again, decry this decision, but at the end of the day this measure is a punitive measure and it is not going to coveragel someone to comply with the investigation and provide any actual testimony and move the investigation forward and at this point the committee has talked to over a thousand people and i'm not sure how many people they need to force to compel. that being said there are big names who are not going to cooperate at the end of the day, dan scavino, mark meadows although he did provide text messages and the former acting attorney general rosen, rick donohue, the former council to the former vice president.

i think things will sort of take care of themselves and regardless of, i think, the hardened opinions and they will tell a compelling story with new information and evidence that they've accumulated over the course of a year. >> "the washington post" jackialmany, governor ron desant sis targeting a key asset in his own state. yet florida congressman is doling out political punishments and that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." t ahead on "morning joe.

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♪♪ ♪♪ another florida business is facing punishment by the state's republican governor after voicing an opinion. days after the tampa bay rays used its social media feed to raise awareness about gun safety

and announced a $50,000 donation to a gun violence prevention group, governor ron desantis vetoed $35 million in funding for a potential spring training complex for the club. asked about ray's tweets and his subsequent veto desantis made clear he does not support using taxpayer dollars for pro-sports stadiums and also added it is also inappropriate to subsidize political activism of a private corporation. joining us now senior national political reporter for nbc news mark caputo and state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aaronberg. joe? >> mark caputo, this is me saying this, not you. you are obviously a reporter. i am a guy who is a small government conservative. i have been and still am and i don't like -- i don't like government on any level stepping in telling businesses what they should or shouldn't do.

we saw in covid he was telling -- he was telling small businesses what they could or couldn't do. school boards what they could and couldn't do, telling walt disney what they can and can't even say inside their own company and now a tweet, a tweet and it costs a baseball team, a beloved baseball team a heck of a lot of money because he's vetoing bills because of tweets. this is -- it seems they've become more -- my words, not yours, extreme by the day. what's going on here? >> i think in this specific case he's kind of log rolling these two things. number one, he wanted to veto a lot of spending because he is a conservative. however, there is a massive budget and a lot of government spending and they don't like government spending and he vetoed $3.1 billion and he was looking for things to cut because people don't like the idea of subsidizing sports teams

and then it was one of these things that, oh, hey, and they did this. for him it was a win-win. you are going to see more of this, though to your point, with disney and with other companies that step out of line, in his view. that having been said, hey, i'm against sports stadiums and formula one and nascar did get breaks and legislation signed. he's not completely opposed to giving certain breaks to some franchises and enterprises. >> dave aaronberg, he did, he could have vetoed it and said i don't support giving money to sports stadiums or sports outfits when mark just pointed out that he does for ones he prefers, but again, there's just an authoritarian streak here. if you tweet something that a governor doesn't like, he will veto your spending and he will tell you that's why he vetoed the spending. he could have just vetoed it and

said i don't like sports stadium and leave it there, but no, he wanted people to know. he's punishing a private company, a private enterprise because of their political views with taxpayer money. same thing again. i talked about before with disney, talked about it with cruise lines that wanted at the height of covid to keep their people safe and to have them wear masks which any doctor, a sane doctor would have said this makes sense, told them they couldn't do that. told small businesses they couldn't have mask mandates if that's how they wanted to run their small business, told school boards what they could or couldn't do despite the fact there's 67 counties in the huge state of florida. i mean, it's just craziness. this is not conservative. this is authoritarian. it's plain and simple and conservatives know that. >> yeah, joe. this is just the latest attack

against private enterprise by a governor when ran as a pro-business conservative. as you say, he's gone after social media companies who ban trump. he's penalized cruise lines for requiring vaccine mandates. he has punished disney for opposing his don't say gay bill ands why, his critics call him an authoritarian. i would say he's more authoritarian curious. he often resembles this socialist dictators he loves to hate all while labeling our state the free state of florida, and he just last week even bullied the special olympics. that's a new low. he said drop your vaccine mandates or you're going to face a $27.5 million fine. the special olympics responded we don't want to fight. we just want to pay and they capitulated otherwise they would face hefty legal fees so this is yet another attack by desantis on an iconic american institution. if you're keeping score at home, he has attacked the special

olympics, baseball, mickey mouse and even the first amendment itself and he'll be running in 2024 as america first candidate for president and that's par for the course in maga world where it's performance over policy and the cruelty is the point. >> dave aronberg and mark caputo, thank you both very much for coming on this morning and coming up, pope francis is fueling new speculation about his future in the vatican. what it all means for the catholic church just ahead on "morning joe." "morning joe." he. meta portal, make working from home work for you. the unknown is not empty.

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a new announcement from the pope is fuelling speculation about the future of his tenure. nbc nose ever news correspondent ann thompson has more. >> prove on penta cost sunday warning cack liths that folk ug on the past risks making faith a

museum piece. this morning -- the vatican announcing over the weekend that the pope will visit the italian city hope to pope francis the fifth who resigned in 1294 and where pope francis benedict made a symbolic gesture in 2009 before announcing his own regular ignition four years later. now there is speculation this trip means tran sis might do the same. phil palella who reports on the vatican doesn't see that at all. >> he still enjoys being pope. he doesn't seem to have any hesitation about making decisions. >> francis will make the trip the day after he created 21 new cardinals, 16 are under the age of 80 and eligible to choose his successor including robert mcelroy of san diego.

francis will have chosen the vast majority of cardinals electors. might that be another reason to step aside. >> this is just business. it is logical and it is normal. >> at 85, francis enduring physical challenges, also fuelling speculation. he underwent colon surgery last summer and suffering from sciatica. he recently started using a wheelchair because of pain in his right knee. >> i don't think -- being in the wheelchair has effected his papacy whatsoever. he hasn't slowed down one bit. >> what can dismiss this is the presence of pope benedict. >> i don't think pope francis is going to resign while pope benedict the 16th is still alive. it is confusing number that

people think there are two popes. >> that is ann thompson reporting. and coming up, a live report from the white house as president biden kicks off another busy week. plus what is driving the day on wall street? andrew ross sorkin has business before the bell. but first former obama adviser dan pheifer with his new book on battle the big lie. "morning joe" is back in a moment. so this is the meta portal plus. a smart video calling device that makes working from home, work. it syncs with your favorite vc apps so you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. meta portal, make working from home work for you. okay season 6! aw... this'll take forev—or not. do i just focus on when things don't work, and not appreciate when they do?

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it's 3 minutes before the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." a new poll shows that as time goes on a number ever people who hold former president trump responsible for the january 6 insurrection, is dropping. 45% of americans now say trump is solely or mainly responsible for rioters who overtook the

capitol. that is a shift from an nbc poll taken days after the attack when 52% said trump was either solely or mainly responsible. trying to shift those numbers is go fog be a task ahead for the committee investigating the attack which holds its first public hearing this week. it is also going to be the task for democrats and midterm elections approach. joining us now, former white house communication director for president obama, dan pheifer. he's the author of the new book entitled "battling the big lie." so perfect to have you here. congratulations on the book. >> thank you. >> and there is a level of disinformation that has pervaded our politics, if you agree with that then how to battle the big lie. >> how is it possible that to this day 70% of republicans believe the big lie. and easily disproven lie. >> how is it. >> because the republicans and

right-wing have spent decades building up this cable television and digital outlets and media on youtube and facebook that have created this hermetically seals where they are presented to their voters and this is a challenge for democrats and drowning out our message and it is a challenge for anyone who cares about democracy in my view. >> and facebook, i would think, on social media and you say digital outlets play a huge role in this. new networks that have popped up that are solely for the big lie and for trump type information. >> right. if you were someone -- 70% of meshes go to facebook. 40% of americans get their news on facebook. >> that is not you get news. it is not news. >> they think it is news. it is hard to distinguish between opinion pieces and actual reports reported by

someone like nbc news or "new york times." but it shows up in your feed and it is poisoning our democracy. >> dan, what has been to shocking and willie and i talk about it all of the time, you have this idea of people that are believing the conspiracy theories, and the big lie and the way the media usually portrayed it as it's the great unwashed. it is people living -- living out in the hinder lands that don't are a college -- just but that is complete nonsense. willie and i will talk about, he has people that work with hedge funds that will talk about the italian dude who used a satellite to steal votes. i get the craziest calls from friends i've had my entire life who have advantaged degrees, are brilliant people, what do we