hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. riding in on a wave of fury and grief, uvalde native and activist matthew mcconaughey stood before the podium of the briefing room, so named for another victim of gun violence, and delivered remarks that were part eulogy for the young victims of the uvalde school massacre and part rallying cry to the nation to demand action on gun safety. mcconaughey grew emotional as he told stories about the families

he met with after the mass shooting and the victims of another preventable tragedy, this time in his hometown. watch. >> uvalde, texas, is where i was born. it's where my mom taught kindergarten less than a mile from robb elementary. uvalde is where i learned to master a disy bb gun. took two years before i graduated to a 410 shotgun. uvalde is where i was taught to revere the power and the capability of the tool that we call a gun. uvalde is where i learned responsible gun ownership. wore green high top converse with a heart she had drawn on the right toe because they represented her love of nature, camilla's got these shoes. can you show these shoes, please?

wore these every day, green converse with a heart on the right toe. these are the same green converse on her feet that turned out to be the only clear evidence that could identify her after the shooting. how about that? you know what every one of these parents wanted what they asked for, what every parent separately expressed in their own way to camilla and me, that they want their children's dreams to live on, that they want their children's dreams to continue to accomplish something after they are gone. they want to make their loss of life matter. as divided as our country is, this gun responsibility issue is one that we agree on more than we don't. it really is, but this should be

a nonpartisan issue. this should not be a partisan issue. there is not a democratic or republican value in one single act of these shooters, but people in power have failed to act, so we're asking you, and i'm asking you will you please ask yourselves can both sides rise above? can both sides see beyond the political problem at hand and admit that we have a life preservation problem on our hands. we got a chance right now to reach for and to grasp a higher ground above our political affiliations, a chance to make a choice that does more than protect your party, a chance to make a choice that protects our country now and for the next generation. we got to take a sober, humble, and honest look in the mirror and rebrand ourselves based on what we truly value. what we truly value.

we got to get some real courage and honor our immortal obligations instead of our party affiliations. enough with the counterpunching. enough of the invalidation of the other side. come to the common table that represents the american people. find a middle ground, the place where most of us americans live anyway, especially on this issue because i promise you america, you and me, we are not as divided as we're being told we are. >> so we don't know yet, we don't know what comes of this moment today in the white house briefing room. mcconaughey's comments might end up in the dust heap of our country's broken politics when it comes to guns or maybe, just maybe those fiery remarks which my colleague katy tur reported

were carried in their entirety on fox news, cnn, and on this network, those comments which veered at times from scripted and theatrical to raw and ad libbed just might be part of a tipping point in this country right now where at this moment, every act from attending elementary school to going to church to shopping for groceries to going to the hospital, all of that carries a risk of being gunned down in our country's next mass shooting. it's where we start today, joining us to discuss the prospects if the kind of progress mcconaughey called for, some of our favorite friends, fred guttenberg, his daughter jamie was killed in the parkland school shooting, and my friend matt dowd, political strategist, an msnbc political analyst. fred, what did you think when you you watched -- actually, i should just share some reporting. a senior white house official told me that today we had the prose and the poetry of governing at the white house as the president met both with

senator chris murphy and with matthew mcconaughey. it's going to take both to overcome a 28-year gap of any federal gun control getting enacted. with that as sort of the president's interest in bringing everything to bear in this fight, what do you make of chris murphy, your friend chris murphy being at the white house as well as actor matthew mcconaughey today? >> listen, matthew mcconaughey, if i could give him a bear hug right now, i would because he hit -- he said everything. i just -- a couple of things that stood out, responsible gun ownership owners are fed up with the second amendment being hijacked. thank you for being a responsible gun owner and saying that as loudly as you did. this has never been about the second amendment. saving lives never has been. this has never been about taking something away from responsible people. this has always been about saving lives and matthew mcconaughey again if i could give you a hug, i would.

and we need more responsible gun owners to step up and say that. and listen, in the same speech he had a chance to talk about why this matters. listen, when he talked about extensive restoration, i can't begin to tell you how real that is, and you know, for my daughter we didn't require extensive restoration. one shot, one single shot severed her spinal cord, but here's the thing, because of that jamie didn't die instantly, so those who needed extensive restoration, they died instantly. they didn't suffer. my daughter did. what i do remember about jamie is the power of that one shot. it knocked her to the floor and put a dent in her face that no amount of makeup could cover up, and i just, again, to hear it

come from matthew is so consequential, and thank you president biden for making sure that america heard from him today. thank you, chris murphy. i know you're running 24 hours a day trying to do this, and i know you're doing it even though mitch mcconnell has still not yet uttered the word gun and the colleagues on the other side are still trying to do everything they can to make this about anything but the gun. don't settle. let's do something consequential that will save lives. >> fred, what i thought was so striking was that he put the gun owners right in the middle of the conversation, and matt dowd also seeks to do that every time we're all here together, but as you have pointed out, the republicans don't want that to happen, right? the republicans need the gun

owners to think they're under threat. they need to think they're under threat of confiscation. the lies that have been told to the gun owners piercing those lies seemed like perhaps one of the most impactful things that might have happened with as katy tur reported fox news airing these remarks as they happened. >> we're talking about saving kids. we're talking about saving adults. we're talking about reducing the instances of gun violence, and then you have people like senator thune who are talking about the need for this weapon to shoot vermin. but here we are. i'm going to say while i have hope and faith because of chris murphy, the fact that mcconnell still won't say gun, and the fact that senator rick scott is running away from governor rick scott is concerning to me because governor rick scott led

on this issue. i've spent many days, many hours on the phone with governor rick scott when he was down here leading. he led this fight, but he won't do it for the country, and so i hope my friend chris murphy can get through to them, but unless they can deliver on bare minimum things like background checks, extreme risk protection, that's not going to save lives. if they want to deliver a mental health plan for the country, that's a good thing. let's do that. i'm okay with that, but don't call it a gun safety bill. >> yeah, it's almost like a long overdue thing that republicans usually aren't for to begin with. i want to play some more of matthew mcconaughey for you, matt dowd. this is him speaking in language that i'm very familiar with you speaking in about our values. >> we need to restore our family values. we need to restore our american

values, and we need responsible gun ownership. responsible gun ownership. we need background checks. we need to raise the minimum age to purchase an ar-15 rifle to 21. we need a waiting period for those rifles. we need red flag laws and consequence for those who abuse them. these are reasonable, practical, tactical regulations to our nations, states, communities, schools, and homes. responsible gun owners are fed up with the second amendment being abused and hijacked by some deranged individuals. these regulations are not a step back. they're a step forward for a civil society and the second amendment. >> matthew, i know you have implored democrats and anyone on

the side of gun safety in america to reframe it in this way, but i wonder what you think of this conversation shifting to the best way to protect gun rights is to use guns responsibly and safely. is that something that you think resonates in places it hasn't to date. >> well, i have to say that watching matthew mcconaughey who's two modern iconic texans, one is matthew mcconaughey, and the other is willie nelson. to have matthew mcconaughey standing up there having been born in uvalde and growing up in texas, who represents texas, you couldn't have a better person to do that. the thing that i thought he did well that i have tried to talk about numerous times was, one, not take this as it's not a debate between gun owners and non-gun owners. it's a debate between people that want to do nothing to solve

the problem and people who want to do something to solve the problem. the vast majority of gun owners in texas and every other state want to do something about this. they're fine with red flag laws. they're fine with universal background checks. they're fine with raising the age to 21 to buy assault rifles. they're fine with all those things, but the other thing that i think was very important and this is something i hope every person that wants this done takes as a lesson. intellectual arguments will not win this debate. intellectual arguments are great to have and they're fine to do, and we can lay out all the facts, but what wins this debate and what ultimately creates the power in politics is when it strikes people's heart and their gut. that's the only way we move policy forward fundamentally, the american politics also votes based on their heart and in their gut. i thought matthew mcconaughey did that exceedingly well. he made this a gut and heart

issue, he made it an american values issue. ask i hope any person talking about this, any person running on this, even if what happens i have hope that something might get done, i have my own cynicism, my hope, but maybe, just maybe what this created is an opportunity for everybody that talks about it and everybody that runs on it from state legislature to president will do it in a fashion that strikes people in their heart and in their guts. >> matthew respectfully and we rarely disagree, i think that fred's been speaking from his heart and his gut and sharing things that no parent should ever have to share about the way his daughter died as have the brave parents whose children died at newtown, as have the family members of those who died in the buffalo massacre. i think the entire conversation has gutted us because it is all from the heart and a place of tragedy. what is it specifically that you think he did that other conversations haven't achieved? >> well, i don't think he's done -- fred absolutely has been

a power in this debate all along. what i'm saying is people like fred, people like matthew mcconaughey, and what i think matthew mcconaughey standing up at the press platform having walked out of a meeting with the president of the united states and being an iconic figure, especially from a place like texas which holds onto our guns as the most -- as sometimes the most vulnerable thing to have in their house, i think what he is showing, not the freds of the world who already know what to do and already know how to do it and already know how to create and talk about this in a compelling way, it's to show the politicians in washington who constantly talk about this but they have no capacity to talk about it in a way that strikes people in their heart and gut. too often it is we rank 53rd on the list of countries in gun ownership and we rank here, and this is what we can do, and this is how many guns and there's 400 million guns. all of those great facts, but i think most of the time the politicians, lucy mcbath

actually did this well who was the congresswoman from georgia who obviously had a personal connection having a loss of life by guns, won a swing district in georgia because she did it in a compelling way, and she talked about it and she won there in georgia, and so it's not a message for the freds of the world or the yous of the world, it's a message for the other people around washington who talk about this issue. >> fred, you pulled out a part of matthew mcconaughey's comments that we didn't pull, just for anyone watching our show, he talked about meeting with all the families and then he talked about meeting with the woman who works at the mortuary to prepare the bodies for wakes and funerals, and there is a debate raging in journalism right now about whether -- whether seeing what these weapons of war do to their victims in this case to third grade victims needs to be part

of the force that is brought to bear in this effort that matthew's talking about, getting people in their guts. understanding that the right to bear arms never -- especially for conservatives who talk about the words in the constitution, it doesn't say ar-15 anywhere yet the perversion of the second amendment that think that's what it means have made this weapon specifically able to go into the hands of people who wouldn't pass a background check. i mean, to change the debate to what the republicans are defending is this unimaginable horror being carried out by a weapon of war, and i wonder what your thoughts are about that, about seeing what this weapon does. >> yeah, i've heard the debate, and i do not in any way, shape, or form support doing that. i don't think it's necessary, and i think the debate and the question of it actually help bring me to a point of claire

think week that i haven't had before because who are we trying to convince? 80 to 90% of america is convinced. they don't need to see that. the president is convinced. he doesn't need to see it. the house of representatives is currently acting in a way where they are convinced. they don't need to see it and so is half the senate. and so the ten members that we would need from the other side of the senate who aren't convinced, showing them the photos isn't going to make a difference. it isn't going to change who they are. the only thing that is going to change this now is for america to make clear that from this day forward the first question they will ask of any candidate is do you support gun safety? and if you don't, i will not be voting for you. for america to make clear from this day forward that they are putting out together their voting plan to be ready to vote on this issue so that there's no

questions asked after the november election. we've moved forward in the direction of gun safety since my daughter was killed. we need one more election to do it. we don't need the pictures. >> matt dowd, i think the question should be asked and answered by the freds of the world. i agree and i want to ask you as someone who had the job not just of understanding public opinion but of helping to push it, can it be pushed? i mean, can you get the other ten or does that vote need to usher in ten different people? >> well, i don't think it needs to usher in ten different people, ten new people or 50 new people would be great as far as i'm concerned in what's going on in washington, i think what it has to do is the vote has to usher in one or two or three new people. one of the things you can count on with politicians in

washington besides hypocrisy and all the other things, is they're scared of their own shadow. and if they see one or two or three u.s. senators elections decided on this issue like just like fred said, decided on this issue and i would add democracy, like if you're going to ask them two questions, do you support democracy, and do you support gun reform, those two questions, that's all i need to know. i don't care anything else you say, and they're both related. is if you beat a couple of u.s. senators and this issue is the driving force, there's a whole bunch of u.s. senators that are so scared of their shadow they'll come right along. >> from your lips. fred guttenberg and matt dowd, thank you so much for jumping on and starting us off today. it's great to see both of you. after the break for us, there's breaking news and brand new evidence emerging in the january 6th select committee's investigation. in these final hours, days before the public hearings again. we'll get to that breaking news and how the january 6th hearings

could change the game for democrats in the midterm conversations. ask later in the program, how the spate of recent mass shootings in america is rattling top national security officials. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. please stay with us. e house" cos after a quick break. after a quick break. please stay with us. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact ont. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. i'm susan and i'm 52

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[ roar ] and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ you coming or what? there is a brand new blockbuster reporting filled with new revelations on the trump coup attempt. just ahead of the first in the series of public hearings for the january 6th select committee. hearings that will, quote, blow the roof off the house according to one member, congressman jamie raskin. "the washington post" out with an incredible scoop about the

ex-president's call to, quote, walk down to the capitol after his rally at the ellipse on january 6th. from that post report, quote, shortly before pro-trump rioters stormed the u.s. capitol on january 6th, secret service agents scrambled to try to secure a motorcade route so then president trump could accompany his supporters as they marched on congress to demand he stay in power. the hectic events that day followed nearly two weeks of persistent pressure from trump on the secret service to devise a plan for him to join his supporters on a march to the capitol from the park near the white house where he was leading a massive rally that he predicted would be wild. that's not the only extraordinary piece of reporting today in the post, this on the scheme to set up alternate slates of electors now under investigation by doj. it formed the linchpin of that strategy to disrupt the certification of the electoral college results. a staffer for donald trump presidential campaign instructed republicans planning to cast electoral college votes for

trump in georgia, despite joe biden's victory to operate in complete secrecy, according to an email obtained by the post. i must act for your complete discretion in this process wrote a man named robert sinners, the campaign's operations director for georgia. the day before the 16 republicans gathered at the georgia capitol to sign certificates declaring themselves duly elected. quote, your duties are imperative to ensure the end result, a win in georgia for trump. it will be hampered unless we have secrecy and discretion. norm eisen tells the post if there was nothing wrong with it, why go through extraordinary lengths to hide what you're doing. it will be a focus of this month's hearings which hope to lay out to the american people the full story and the full extend of the multipronged plot, conspiracy really by trump world and other allies from the work of the most senior trump white house officials in peddling the

big lie all the way to the brutal violence unleashed by extremist groups at the capitol on january 6th. "new york times" reports that thursday's hearings will shed light on the role of the far right pro-trump extremist group the proud boys in the capitol insurrection. the times reports the january 6th select committee intends to present live testimony from a british documentarian who was filming the group with its permission during the riot, and from caroline edwards, a capitol police officer who was injured according to videotape of the incident by a rioter who had been in a conversation moments earlier with one of the proud boys. he spent a good deal of the post-election period filming members of the proud boys including mr. tarrio and is considered a witness. this footage is being used as government evidence in that case against the proud boys. it was released at the request of nbc news.

if you look closely, it shows the head of the oath keepers, that's stewart rhodes meeting in a parking garage on the eve of the attack on the capitol with the head of the other group, the proud boys, enrique tarrio. both men have been charged with seditious conspiracy in connection to the january 6th attack. joining us "new york times" congressional reporter luke broadwater and jackie alemany, it's not surprising there's a crush of developments, new sort of visibility into both investigations, the justice didn't and the congressional committee, but let's start with the extremist groups. talk about the congressional committee's interest in these groups, in these actors and how fruitful their efforts have been to tie those groups to trump's circle. >> yeah, so we learned yesterday through sources that the proud boys will be a focus of thursday

night's hearing from the january 6th committee. these -- the two witnesses you announced i think will have very valuable information that maybe the public has not heard yet. some of the video that this documentary filmmaker has shot has not been seen publicly before, and he is also reportedly aware of conversations that the proud boys were having not just during the attack on the capitol but in the planning before the attack on the capitol, and you know that the committee is very interested in the fact that this was a coordinated attack and not just a random mob that got out of control. and then the officer, caroline edwards, anybody who's spoken with her knows that she has a very powerful story to tell. she was one of the first officers assaulted on january 6th and sustained a concussion, and even months later was still

fainting, having fainting spells due to her injuries. i've interviewed her, she's a very tough person, and i think a lot of people will find her story inspiring because she will talk about how the capitol police have rallied in the months since that attack on the capitol, so the committee is going to be delving into these developments with these extremists and showing that their inspiration and their interactions and their connections were to political actors and to donald trump himself inspiring them and calling them to the capitol on january 6th. and they're going to tie it all back into the plot to overturn the election that went on for months and weeks before january 6th. >> you know, luke, i want to get to jackie's reporting on the secret service in a second, but i just have to ask you, i mean,

some of your -- one of the first stories we had on asking you about is your reporting out of the associations and appearances and ties between sitting republican members of congress and these extremist groups, and i wonder if any of this testimony will reveal any such appearances, associations or ties to any republican members as well. >> well, i expect there to be at least one of the hearings, several of them will be about connections between the domestic violence extremists and the political world, and in fact, you don't have to look that hard to find them. we've written articles about these very topics. some of these people themselves occupy a foot in those spaces. enrique tarrio, the head of the proud boys was also part of latinos for trump. and if you look at that meeting there in the garage, you have people affiliated with both the oath keepers, the proud boys, and the trump campaign all intertwined there. so there are, you know, you

don't really have to do that much digging to see the connections. now, i think the next step for the committee is establishing basically was there -- beyond connections was there sort of instructions or encouragement, and i think you do see a lot of encouragement towards extreme behavior that was going on that day. >> jackie, take us into this story in this sort of news cycle from the other side. what you and your colleagues are reporting is about premeditation, plans in december to participate in what would become the insurrection on january 6th. just take us through your reporting about the secret service's role in that and what they've shared with the committee. >> yeah, nicole, so my colleagues, carol leonnig, josh dossi and i reported today that

trump desired to walk with his reporters from the capitol to the ellipse far earlier than has previously been reported, which suggests he was well aware of the plans that were going to go down at the capitol. he applied lots of pressure in various different ways on his u.s. secret service and those around him making clear his desires to do so. he told our colleague in an interview even that that was what he wanted to do, march to the capitol but that u.s. secret service wouldn't allow him to do it. our reporting shows that the secret service actually did act in those very final moments, just an hour before protesters sieged the capitol and actually breached security to try to fulfill trump's wishes after he told pro trump supporters who had gathered to watch him speak at the ellipse that he was going to march with them, if not for the d.c. police intervening and rebuffing those efforts that might have actually happened, but they responded to secret

service at the moment saying that they were incapable of being able to block intersections and clear the necessary areas in order for the president to safely make that march. on top of that, again, trump had insisted from very early on that joining the march was something that he wanted to do. it hadn't been previously reported as well, but secret service officials had considered actually taking steps to actually transport him there. our story more broadly speaking also reflects a growing focus by the committee on whether or not the trump white house did try to drag secret service into the president's quest to overturn the results of the election and whether or not he succeeded more than anybody publicly realizes in actually doing so. >> and jackie, in terms of the committee getting to the bottom of that question you just posed, it seems from your reporting that the secret service is cooperating with the select committee's request, right? >> yeah, that's exactly right.

various secret service agents have appeared before the committee and according to people who have been briefed on the testimony and secret service told us in a statement on the record that they were cooperating with the committee's work as well. >> i want to ask both of you about a witness that is not a household name, but it seems as all these threads come back to whether republican members were involved, what the white house and what they knew, cassidy hutchinson keeps coming up as someone who has pieced together for the select committee. we don't have visibility where doj is heading in these areas, but in terms of testifying to what the white house knew about the potential of violence, the story reminds us that cassidy hutchinson, she was special assistant to the president for legislative affairs told the congressional investigators that she recalled anthony arnado, senior secret service official who also held the role of a

political adviser at the white house, quote, coming in and saying that we had intelligence reports saying there could be -- there was the potential for violence on the 6th. mr. meadows was in receipt of that intel in that report saying, quote, all right, let's talk about it. what is the importance, luke, of sort of establishing this time line that ahead of time they knew it would be violent, ahead of time we now know from this reporting that trump and the secret service were trying to have trump participate in it, and you know, the other side of the ledger, all of these criminal investigations into nothing less than seditious conspiracy. there has to be a flashing yellow light that these two things could intersect very soon. >> yeah, exactly. i mean interest to federal investigates and the justice department is how did -- not just people come to d.c. but directing the mob to go to the

capitol, creating an environment where an angry group of thousands of people is demanding mike pence do something, that the members of congress do something, and sort of setting this stage where violence could be considered almost inevitable, and you know, so cassidy hutchinson is one of those lower ranking aides who when their bosses wouldn't talk to the committee, the aides did, and she told them very valuable information, not just that mark meadows was told well before hand that there could be danger but that some -- at least one republican member of congress was in favor of telling the crowd to march to the capitol and that this was actually a topic of discussion among the members of congress as well. and we also know that cassidy hutchinson was asked about other important matters including, you

know, donald trump's reaction to hearing the chants of hang mike pence and how he was reportedly reacting favorably to those chants. so a lot of this does get to sort of the mind-set of strufrp trump and his associates to how open they were to aggressive tactics, even violence or pressure, to those members of congress and to mike pence to get what he wanted, and that was to stay in office for another term. >> it's amazing and both of your reporting today brings us right up to this first very high stakes public hearing. jackie al mayny thank you for joining us to talk to us about it. up next for us, how those january 6th hearings might end up helping the democrat shift some of the political narrative ahead of the ever important midterms. that's next. ofd the ever impor midterms midterms that's next.metimes, i'm all bu. a serious chair for a serious business woman!

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there's more new reporting today, this reporting is on how house indicates are hoping to use their colleagues january 6th hearings starting this week to refocus and remind voters back to that violence a year and a half ago and the still active plots and threats to undermine democracy and to use these hearings in part to persuade voters that this year's midterms just five months away are a chance to hold republicans accountable once and for all. from "the new york times" reporting on this rare high profile chance for democrats with a majority at stake this

year, it's a chance to recast their messaging. it's an uphill battle al at a time when polls show voters' attention is focused elsewhere including on inflation, rising coronavirus cases and high gas prices. democrats argue the hearings will give them a platform for making a broader case for why they deserve to stay in power. some democratic operatives believe the political payoff could be substantial both in energizing the party's core supporters and in appealing to independent voters who may turn against republicans based on what they see and hear. joining us amy stoddard associate editor and columnist for real clear politics, tim miller writer at large for the bulwark and luke broadwater is back with us. luke, this piece was so interesting because it seems that the members of the select committee have been allergic to any political overtones. liz cheney and adam kinzinger have paid a monumental political price for participating in the fact finding mission as members of the select committee, but there is a reality, and i think

even cheney and kinzinger are well aware of it of this being front and center. talk about the political stakes of these hearings. >> reporter: yeah, you're absolutely right. i mean, the committee has done its work very with a bipartisan and -- we've had very serious former federal prosecutors working on this. they have been meticulous in their fact finding, and they plan to present it in an apolitical way as well, but it is still congress, and you can't deny that there's a political reality at stake here, you know, if you talk to most pollsters, the democrats are very much in -- of losing the house. some say losing 20 or 30 seats even, and so they're trying to recapture a moment shortly after january 6th when much of the country was united and condemning what happened on january 6th. if you look at polling from after january 6th, republicans,

democrats, independents all saw it for the most part as a dark day in american history, and they knew who to blame for that dark day. in the months since that time the parties have retrenched and voters have gone back to their original camps, and so this is a potential opportunity for many democrats to promote what they're seeing at these hearings, the new revelations that will come out and to remind voters and the american people about how democracy is on the line on january 6th, and that's not something to forget about as you're making your decisions going into the midterms. >> and you know the smoking gun evidence that the right knows this is fox news's decision not to carry it, and if you look at the way fox news carried trump's water, it was by smearing colonel vindman, it was by smearing marie yovanovitch, it was by smearing any government

official who spoke up on the side of the rule of law and the truth. the challenge -- i wouldn't call it a challenge, but the sort of fly in the ointment for the trump side here is that all the witnesses will be deep, deep trump insiders and all the testimony will be on tape and in texts. it's in their own words how they tried to politicize an election and overthrow the u.s. government. (. >> right, i think trump will just continue to lie about it in all his, you know, fund-raising requests that he sends out and any interviews that he gives, but this puts every republican candidate, nicolle on defense. you know, you can't say i'm not a member of the proud boys. i wasn't mark meadows in the white house that day. i don't know how it got so far out of hand, and have been silent all of these months when all of the revelations that we already know have been divulged,

have been deranged and shocking and dangerous before the hearings have even started. they have been silent, and they are complicit in their silence. kevin mccarthy unless something crazy happens and trump stops him from becoming speaker, if democrats lose the house will be the third in line for the presidency, and has lied about his conversation in which he told colleagues he believed the president needed to resign immediately because he had abused his power, incited the riot, and you know, kevin mccarthy was there to protect his oath to the constitution. if he will lie about that, he will lie about anything. democrats can talk about this to voters, ask their republican congressman, republican challenger what are they going to do with the power once they get in when they have abetted and e defended in their silence insurrectionists. they have to go straight to the heart of this. dancing around it is a waste of time. yes, people care about inflation and gas prices, but they can talk about this too, and they

owe it -- democrats owe this to the body that they serve, to their own oaths to the constitution to talk about the fact that if you house and harbor insurrectionists, if you lie for them, you don't deserve to hold power. >> tim, what is your sense of, you know, i think the story about washington is sort of its intractable information silos and echo chambers. we don't know what we don't know about how roadblock coverage over the course of a month and another report to come out in the fall, we don't know with whom that lands and how it will land among independent voters. >> i think that's exactly right, nicolle, and that's why i think if i was advising the democrats, i would caution them against worrying about like how is what we're doing today going to impact the midterms and the january 6th committee. and i would look bigger than that. the democrats need to make -- and you know, liz cheney and adam kinzinger along with the democrats need to make a broad

case to the country and remind them about what really happened last year. this was orders of magnitude worse than watergate. you know, you know about watergate in the history books, this blows watergate out of the water. this was a president literally trying to prevent his successor from entering power, using violence, capitol being stormed, and i think that they just need to focus on that big picture and hopefully it will -- to them politically. we don't know what a month's impact is going to have on this. we don't know what the midterms are going to look like. we don't know what inflation and the economy is going to look like in october. by gaming this out and by spending time worrying about people on pundit panels on this one are going to say the next day i think is missing the forest for the trees, and i think they really just need to make the best case they can to show just the magnitude of the threat that donald trump posed

and just the seriousness and the gravity of what we all experienced last year through the voices of people that experienced it. >> luke broadwater, thank you for being here to talk about all your incredible reporting leading up to this public phase. we'll continue to call on you. a.b. and tim stick around. quick break for us. you. a.b. and tim stick around. quick break for us i love all types of dancing... salsa, and even belly dancing! i am a triathlete. i've always been into health, and wellness, and fitness... i tried everything with diet and exercise, and nothing worked. there was just kinda this stubborn area on my stomach.

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every trip is a big deal. every year we try to exercise more, to be more social, to just relax. and eating healthy every single meal? if only it was this easy for us. a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. we're back with a.b. and tim. i'm digesting both of your points about backing up and telling a big story about

democracy and the coup and i want to offer a sort of the other side, is there a smaller, narrower, more pointed point to make? trump equals loser? trump equals violence? trump equals danger? i mean, is that a simpler story to tell that will be backed up by everything we already know, tim? >> well, i definitely think you could make that within the context of the proud boys and this is why -- look, i think you got to be able to do two things at once. this is a committee that is about history, not just the politics of the midterms but also you can be narrower and tactical and talk about the connections between trump and violence, between the proud boys and violence and between, as we talked about last week, the proud boys now taking over state parties and how that implicates politics, so i think you can waterfall down from there, but i just -- i was mostly cautioning the democrats against worrying too much about d.c. pundit brain and focusing mostly on the biggest possible picture. >> yeah, and i think we should be fair. what luke's reporting says, a.b., is that while the

committee has been so cautious about guarding against politics and the politics for the two republicans are terrible, other democrats see opportunities and having this roadblock coverage inside donald trump's inner circle and the coup plot. >> right. and that's why i made the point, if you're in a tough district, battling for re-election in a very tough wave, year, nicole, as a democrat, you should not be afraid to talk about the fact that the republicans who are taking -- poised to take control of the congress next year are the ones who have been silent on this, who have among their rank and file people that were involved in this. there are several members of congress involved, and so it's not a story just about trump. it's about the republicans who have permitted this and looked away and would they do so again. what are they preparing for in 2024 or january of 2025? they should not shy away from those questions. those are the things i think that are going to be the most compelling to independent voters

who are disgusted with both parties but who turned out in 2018 and 2020 to try to get rid of trump. >> yeah, and i mean, it's worse than silence. i mean, there are six members that they would like -- the committee would like to talk to because they did something worse than stay silent. to be continued. a.b. stoddard, tim miller, thank you so much for spending time with us today. when we come back, the nationwide outcry to do something, anything on gun safety from uvalde to buffalo and beyond. and the battle in washington for action this time. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. of "deadline white house" starts after a quick house" starts after a quick break. an innovator in all of u. that's why we build technology that helps everyone come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (sha bop sha bop) ♪ ♪ are the stars out tonight? (sha bop sha bop) ♪ ♪ ♪

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our lives are forever changed, forever damaged by an act of profound hate and evil, and nothing will ever take away the hurt, the pain, or the hole in our hearts. for her to be murdered, taken away from us by someone so full of hate is impossible to understand, and even harder to live with. but we're more than hurt. we're angry. we're mad as hell because this should have never happened. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. powerful, powerful, heartbreaking testimony on capitol hill today. that gentleman was garnell whitfield jr. he lost his mother, ruth whitfield, in that heinous mass shooting at a buffalo grocery store less than one month ago. in that mass shooting, ten people were gunned down by a man

motivated by white supremacist ideology. all of those he killed were black, and the suspect has been indicted by a grand jury on 25 counts, including murder and domestic terrorism. today, mr. whitfield was speaking at a senate judiciary committee hearing examining the rising threat of domestic terrorism in this country in the wake of that attack in buffalo. listen to more of his powerful testimony. >> we're good citizens, good people. we believe in god. we trust in god. but this wasn't an act of god. this was an act of a person, and he did not act alone. he was radicalized by white supremacists, his anger and hatred were metastasized like a cancer by people with big microphones in high places, screaming that black people were going to take away their jobs and opportunities. every enforcement agency charged with protecting the homeland has

conducted risk and threat analysis and determined that white supremacy is the number one threat to the homeland. and yet, nothing's been done to mitigate or eradicate it. you're elected to protect us, to protect our way of life. i ask every one of you to imagine the faces of your mothers as you look at mine and ask yourself, is there nothing that we can do? my mother's life mattered. my mother's life mattered. and your actions here today will tell us how much it matters to you. >> this hearing comes as this morning, the department of homeland security reissued a national terrorism advisory bulletin saying the u.s. remains in a heightened threat environment and that the department expects that environment to become more dynamic, more, in the months ahead. the bulletin points out racially motivated attacks against

minorities and specifically details the mass shooting in buffalo this way. "the suspect in the grocery store attack in buffalo, new york, in may 2022, claimed he was motivated by racist anti-black and anti-semitic conspiracy theories, often referred to as the great replacement or white genocide. these theories claim that minorities, multiculturists and ruling elite are deliberately threatening the existence of the white race. the alleged 2019 attacker at a walmart in el paso, texas, cited similar grievances in inspiration for the attack and both the buffalo and el paso attackers indicated that they were inspired by the 2019 attacker of two mosques in christchurch, new zealand. white supremacists, as we've heard from the fbi director in previous appearances before congress, make up the largest chunk of cases in the agency's domestic terrorism portfolio and are responsible for the most lethal attacks over the last

decade. robert, a political scientist professor at the university of chicago and another witness in today's senate hearing, spoke to one of the reasons why. >> we have volatile capabilities, those are the weapons you're talking about, now combined with volatile ideas and beliefs in the mainstream. it's not one or the other. you've got the combination of these two, which is why we're seeing many more of these events in the united states than we are, say, in britain. and this is a very important combination that's a deadly cocktail that promises more violence going forward. >> promises. meanwhile, negotiations over gun safety legislation are under way on capitol hill at this hour. senator chris murphy leading the talks among a bipartisan group of senators. he met with president biden today on his way into the oval office, murphy told reporters that he would fill the president in as they were, quote, entering a pretty critical stage. addressing this heightened

threat of domestic extremism as gun safety negotiations continue is where we begin this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. msnbc national security analyst frank figliuzzi is back. he's the former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence. also joining us, christopher goldsmith, a senior fellow at the innovation lab for human rights first and an analyst on intelligence, extremism, and disinformation. and with me at the table, former top state department official and msnbc political analyst, rick stengel is back. frank figliuzzi, i want to start with you in this really powerful testimony from the senate judiciary committee about not just buffalo but about this heightened threat environment. tell me what you understand to be growing more dynamic to mean ahead of the midterms. >> yeah, we should pay attention when our department of homeland security uses language like, this will become -- the threat environment will become more dynamic until the months ahead. let me translate that for you.

things are going to get worse. and where does that come from? lessons have been learned from january 6th, so the analysts, the intelligence analysts, and the intelligence community and law enforcement agencies are having more voice than ever, and they're seeing some of what i am seeing as i monitor the chat rooms of violent extremists. i see them talking about things like the likely overturn of roe v. wade and the soft targets that will be presented by pro-choice protesters who come out against that. there's violence being talked about on -- even on both sides of that issue. they're talking about the hearings. they're talking about further actions that might be taken against trump and/or his associates. when you combine all of this and the likelihood that maybe it's some compromise on gun legislation might come out of the talks that are on capitol hill right now, you do have an enhanced threat environment.

we should pay attention to that and not become numb to that. with regard to the hearing today, yes, indeed, extremely moving, compelling testimony by mr. whitfield about losing his mother in the buffalo supermarket. is it enough to change hearts and minds and move legislators toward action on the issue of domestic terrorism? i think not. but i do think the value of today's hearing was not so much for domestic terrorism changes but rather for the talks right now on gun enforcement and gun safety. you'd have to be less than human to hear this testimony and not be moved to do something. and only to respond to your constituents who say, what are you doing? but i will say this. there is another takeaway from today's domestic terrorism hearing, and that is, i think the far right position on domestic terrorism and any steps toward mitigating the threat really was encapsulated by

senator ted cruz. you know, we had a long hearing today that really spent a valuable amount of time talking about white replacement theory and how radicalized people have become to violence from that. and then it's ted cruz's turn, and what does he say in that context of radicalized rhetoric, violence, radicalization processes? he says three things. violence is really bad, and people who are violent should be prosecuted. what he hinted there, and what's been inferred from that is, all violence is the same. we don't need any special laws to address violence. the guy who hits a guy over the head on the sidewalk is the same as somebody who shoots people up because they're black at the supermarket. violence is violence. it's bad. number two, hate's really bad we should despise hate. number three, here's the semicolon that's important. number three, but, we don't need the federal government controlling political ideology. so, who's talking about political ideology here? we're talking about white replacement theory and violence.

and he's equating that with political ideology that can't be controlled by the government. that's a message. white replacement theory has become political ideology. >> frank, if mr. whitfield's mother was killed by foreign terrorists, the democrats and the republicans on the committee would be promising him the moon. what is -- i mean, is it as obvious as it seems, that domestic violent extremists are an important part of the voting coalition on the right? i mean, what is the structural impediment to pardoning the homeland against domestic violent extremism? >> so, we heard the issues again ad nauseam today, which are important. there is a clear distinction in treating domestic terrorism as a threat, because of first amendment, freedom of speech. we don't want to police ideology. freedom of assembly. we don't want to monitor people's discussions, chat, groups, backyard barbecues. we can't have that.

so, we seem to walk away from the whole issue because we seem unable to take on that challenge. but you're absolutely right. the threat is domestic. we should be treating it like an international terrorism. we have a law against international terrorism. we all get entire law enforcement intelligence community gets energized at the moment of an intelligence -- an international terrorism threat, but yet, we still don't have a domestic terrorism law, and nicole, we're not going to have one in the foreseeable future, certainly not with the divided nation we're in. >> i still take my shoes off at the airport because democrats and republicans thought that doing absolutely everything to protect against absolutely every threat, the ones that were successful and the ones that were foiled, was really important. ted cruz was among them. chris, i guess it would be funny if it wasn't so freaking scary. i mean, what is out there in terms of the extremist content you monitor? >> so, my heart breaks for

mr. whitfield, but i'm also angry, and i spend virtually every single day, because it's my job, hanging out in neo-nazi chat rooms and i watch them discuss not just white replacement theory and all of these anti-semitic theories but how they're trying to radicalize republicans, and when you have someone like senator ted cruz defending white replacement theory as if it's a legitimate political ideology, they are celebrating. i mean, they notice that. they watch television. they know what senator cruz is saying about them. and i would -- if i ever had the chance to sit down with cruz one-on-one, i'd want to ask him, what is he doing about the two white supremacist organizations that are youth-based in texas? white lives matter and patriot front. they grew out of his state. white lives matter is now an

international organization. once a month, they hold days of action. last day of action was the day of the buffalo shooting. now, that, to be clear, there doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between the organization, white lives matter, and that specific shooter, but what's governor hochul doing about white lives matter in new york state? it's an extremely active organization. and it's all over the world. you know, what frustrates me is the inaction that we see from government. i understand the first amendment concerns. and that's why i just launched a new organization called task force butler. every time i'm on your show, i get veterans reaching out to me saying, hey, i want to help, what can i do? i want to go hunt nazis. we well, now i've got a program for that. go to testforcebutler.org, they can sign up. supporters want to donate. we're trying to basically build an army of anti-fascist veterans

so that we can, you know, clean these nazis out of our country with sunlight. everything that we do is within the bounds of the law. we're simply making communities safe by letting people know about the nazis in their neighborhood. and when i say, nazis, i'm not being hyperbolic. i'm talking about the people who do hitler salutes, who have swastikas tattooed across their chests. we've got a major, major problem, and government's not going to be the solution. it's going to take people like us. >> kris is talking about the name and shame campaign. i guess my question for you is, is there still shame in these associations in parts of the republican coalition? >> i hope there's some shame, certainly in the mainstream part of the republican party or conservative movement. i mean, part of the problem is the mainstreaming of these noxious, hate-filled ideologies, and because of the web, because of social media, things that

were in the margins and the darkness and the corners is now available to everybody, and in fact, in that terrorist advisory bulletin, one of the things they mentioned is the groups that are saying that the shooting in texas was a false flag operation by the federal government to promote gun control. i mean, that's just so noxious and awful, and you know, in listening to my colleagues, in some ways, treating domestic terrorism shouldn't be so much like treating international terrorism, but the way we treat organized crime. those groups need to be infiltrated. these groups need to be infiltrated the way the justice department was all over organized crime for decade after decade. it's a much greater threat to our country than organized crime, and it should be treated like that. >> well, we've got a law enforcement person here. frank, what about that? i mean, i guess i'm for all of the above, but what feels at least from the outside that the

political paralysis is leaving law enforcement with precious few tools that we're not doing any of the above. what's your response to rick's idea? >> well, totally -- i totally agree, by the way, and really, if you talk to fbi agents who work organized crime and talk to fbi agents who work international terrorism, they're birds of a feather. they take the same approach. so, totally agree. here's the problem. it can't be done. right now, we don't have -- the reason why you can work international terrorism like organized crime and treat it as an enterprise and treat people as investigative subjects because of their association with a group is because we have designation of international terrorism organizations. we have a law called material support to terrorism that applies to international terrorist affiliates and associates. we've got nothing of the kind with regard to domestic terrorism. so, yes, amen. let's treat domestic terrorism as organized crime. how do you do that when you have no tools in your tool kit but

have to look at every individual and their actions, right, not their affiliation with a group because as ted cruz says, that's political ideology, that's free speech, that's freedom of assembly. i would say, once you're in a chat room or a member of a violent militia, you are -- you should be fair game for an investigation by the fbi and other agencies. >> kris, i know you, in terms of infiltrating where the hate is spread and generated and finds common cause among people who have the same noxious views to borrow rick's view, it's a place where you have been able to infiltrate, but just pick up on what frank is saying. once you're there, people have too few tools in terms of who to call, what you do about it, what rises to the level of involving law enforcement. explain. >> so, first -- the first

amendment is what scares every fbi agent away from bringing the heat against white supremacists, because what they don't want from researchers like me is, hey, this guy is brainwashing kids with white supremacist ideology. what they want is, there's going to be a specific attack at a specific time, and frankly, that stuff is just way too rare for us to prevent these things from happening. so, frank and rick are really on to something, and one of the things that the innovation lab of human rights first has been doing is we've been analyzing leaks from white supremacist organizations where they documented themselves committing hate crimes, traveling across state lines, engaged in interstate conspiracies to commit hate crimes. well, there's a whole host of tools that can be used. so what we're going to be doing in the coming weeks is we're going to be publishing on our website at the innovation lab,

the human rights first, information about where these hate crimes happened, when they happened, so we'll be specific about, like, last year, the pride mural in olympia, washington, it was destroyed. that involved patriot front members from three states who planned this out, who documented it themselves, who are known and, you know, if the police aren't going to go after them, district attorneys can, and groups that defend vulnerable communities can file lawsuits. and i think rico is probably going to be the best tool against these types of organizations, because whether it's henry enrique or stewart rhodes at the proud boys or the oath keepers, almost every single one of these organizations, at the center of it is a grift, and there's money being exchanged. there are interstate conspiracies. all of the tools are out there. we just have to get a little more creative.

>> frank figliuzzi, you continue to scare me, but thank you for highlighting these issues. kristofer goldsmith, thank you. rick sticks around. all eyes are on the january 6th committee this week as it holds its first hearing in primetime thursday night, except for people watching fox news. they won't see that there. fox announced it will not be carrying the hearing. it will stick with its line-up of mostly big lie disseminators instead. former obama senior advisor dan pfeiffer, the author of the new book, "battling the big lie" will be our guest at the table. later in the show, the growing civilian casualty toll in the war in ukraine and new signs of revolt among ukrainians in russian occupied territory. we'll check in with our friend, igor, later in the hour. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. "deadline ws "deadline ws after a quick break.nnovator in. that's why we build technology

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but it's all working out, and just remember, what you're seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening. and i'll tell you, i have so many people that are so in favor -- because we have to make our country truly great again. >> you may not remember that. it was in the middle of one of his many anti-free press public therapy sessions when trump said, don't believe what you see, what you see, believe me, that's real. more than a few people noticed that that particular line's proximity to another from george orwell's "1984," the party told

you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. it was their final and most essential command. put that in your back pocket for a second. we learned yesterday that the network calling its fox news channel will not provide any live news coverage of what could be one of the most important congressional hearings in a generation. thursday's january 6th hearing will instead air on fox business while the primetime opinion line-up will go about their normally scheduled programming. yep. the same network whose evening shows devoted some 1,100 segments to the benghazi hearings in the 20 months following the attack has determined its viewers do not really need to see or hear or know any of the details about a deadly insurrection right here in this country. remember, what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening. joining us at the table, dan pfeiffer, co-host of "pod save america," former obama senior advisor and author of the really important, fantastic new book, "battling the big lie: how fax, facebook, and the maga

media are destroying america." tell us how they're destroying america. for people that have yet to get through the whole book, tell me the thesis. >> well, think about what's happening right now, which we had an election in this country. it was a close election. it wasn't that much closer than trump's victory in 2016 or george bush's victory in 2000. yet, huge swaths of the country believe that election was stolen, despite the fact that there's no evidence of that, that election officials testified to the integrity of the election. judges appointed by trump dismissed all the claims of fraud. and so people believed it so powerfully that they stormed the capitol and tried to murder donald trump's vice president. >> right. >> and to this day, 70% of people still believe that. and i wrote this book because that is not an accident. that is the end result of a billionaire-funded, decade-long plan to build up an alternative media ecosystem in this country to allow propaganda, disinformation, and become the primary political strategy of the right wing and it is a huge threat to our democracy, in my view. >> so, we see what is most

public facing, right, so we see and we try to cover the most egregious disinformation and the great replacement theory and other of the real low moments on fox news, but we don't see the other thing you write about, how that's amplified and frankly in the case of tucker carlson, it is the genesis for his programming. talk about that symbiotic relationship. >> on any given night, 4 million people are watching tucker carlson. 160-something million people voted in the election. that is a drop in the bucket but that messaging, that content is like a mobius strip. it is flowing online. it's all over facebook. tucker carlson or someone picks it up,talks about it, then it gets pumped on facebook even more. 7 in 10 americans use facebook. half of those people go to facebook multiple times a day and 4 in 10 of them see facebook as a primary source of news and that is a platform that is rife with conspiracy theories, disinformation, and this sort of extremist messaging all overthe place. it is a major contributing factor to what happened on january 6th.

the lie spread on facebook and other social media platforms, the organizers congregated on facebook, and that is something that none of us in media and politics pay attention to because we're all on twitter. and facebook is ground zero for what is happening. >> even today, you go on there and there's disinformation about covid vaccines and boosters at a time when the only people dying, really, are people without any immunity to it. there's rampant disinformation today about future elections, not just the one in 2020. what is the antidote to that? >> there is not an easy, simple solution. everyone in -- who cares about democracy has a stake in fixing this, right? democrats, people in the media, people in government. >> liz cheney and adam kinzinger. >> republicans of good faith, right, who believe that this is the wrong direction. i wrote this from the perspective of a democratic political operative who worked in the white house and presidential campaigns who watched the republicans build up this massive media weapon over

20 years, and now see it as the most powerful weapon in american politics. and so, what i think democrats have to do is we have to do three things. we have to build up you are own megaphone. i'm not saying be like fox or breitbart, but we need to have ways to communicate our message on our terms. there is a role for the media to play. to think about how they cover people who lie and spread disinformation for a living because that is not -- all of the rules and culture in a lot of political media is based on an idea that people mostly tell the truth. >> and that a fact check was politically devastating. i mean, you and i both came out of campaigns. it was a real ding, you were in the dog house, you lost a news cycle in a campaign which is valuable time if you got three pinocchios. how do you wage a fight -- how do you deal with the asymmetry? what i see as the greatest danger is that on the right, they reward all the things that used to be disqualifying, celebration of violence, lying, corruption, enriching yourself and your adult children with the public office. >> the fact check is a great example, right, which is both -- >> trump killed the fact check.

>> he did and he has sowed so much distrust in the mainstream media that an incorrect fact check is actually proof of truth. >> shep smith fact checked. >> it becomes proof that you're right, that the elites or the media says you're wrong. and so what i think we have to do from a democratic perspective is we're going to have to build up and communicate directly with our voters so we have to build up a progressive megaphone to match this and i think the thing that's really important is for democrats, we have millions of people who will text bank, phone bank, at the drop of a hat. what if we asked them to become messengers? because one of the things recently, there was a study that was done a couple years ago that showed that when people see a news story online, their trust in it is not based on who wrote the story. >> it's who sent it to them. >> so if we can get people to communicate with the people in their networks, that's how we can breakthrough some of this right-wing propaganda. >> so, i always feel like that scene in jerry maguire where

he's like, help me help you and what i want to say to democratic strategists is help me help you fight like republicans. how do you get democrats who have -- if you look at public opinion on literally every issue, whether it's roe, 65% of all americans, including republicans, support leaving it in place, whether it's background checks, 85% of americans, whether it's abortion bans with an exception for life of the mother, 93% of americans, i look at the democrats where you have all public opinion on your side and all these front burner issues and it feels like there's this sense of defeatism around the midterms. >> we definitely had -- there is a democratic doom loop happening, which is self-perpetuating and it's a real problem. when you bring up the reason why i wrote the book, to answer the question, why is it that when democrats have more voters, more popular positions, more popular politicians, we keep coming out on the short end of the stick and we are losing the messaging wars in a lot of ways? one of the reasons for that is, and i put out this playbook in the book, republicans view

political communications as information warfare, and democrats view it as public relations, and we have to get on a war footing, build up our army and weapons. we have to communicate on our terms. i don't think -- disinformation would not work as a strategy for democrats, our coalition is different, but we have to find ways to have our message not get drowned out because republicans pick the topic. they are the assignment editor for the american political conversation on a daily basis. look at how critical race theory was used in virginia. it's exactly that. >> rick? >> so, one of the things -- congratulations on the book. it's really important. the timing is great. one of the things you talk about, too, which is a kind of a structural issue, is the democrats are a big tent party. there's senator manchin and there's aoc and there's lots of people in between. the republican party is more homogenous. it has a narrower point of view. so when you have a party that has that diverse points of view, it is harder to message, isn't it? >> it is absolutely harder. the democratic challenge is harder. it's not just that we have a structural deficit in terms of

number of media outlets and how much they have, we need our political task is harder, our coalition is more diverse and we depend on turning out voters who are new to the process. and so that is much harder. we can't just turn out our base. and the political, you know, the electoral college and the senate, we have to turn out voters who are more conservative than the median democrat. they may be closer to joe manchin that are bernie sanders. >> how do you find a message? >> president biden did a lot of this. obama did it in 2012. the unifying message among democrats is populist economics. you know who one of the biggest supporters of raising taxes on the rich and corporations? joe manchin. one of the biggest supporters of forcing prescription drug companies to negotiate with medicare to lower costs? joe manchin. we can focus on those issues. in politics, you want to pick issues that unite your base, divide theirs.

for democrats, that's economics. for republicans, that's cultural issues. but they are putting the focus on cultural issues because they hold the megaphone. >> no one's going anywhere. we're going to have to sneak in a quick break. o one's going anye we're going to have to sneak in a quick break. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. frank is a fan of fast. he's a fast talker. a fast walker. thanks, gary. and for unexpected heartburn...

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we're back with dan pfeiffer and rick stengel. we're trying to understand how to win this battle against the big lie. i want to read something from the book. you write this. america is still a democracy and republicans may not be able to shut down the media outlets and

other information sources that contradict their party line but they can convince the public to shut them out, to restrict information in this way, sowing distrust in every institution other than right-wing media outlets and republican politicians. winning the war on truth depends on defeating the truth teller. i watched adam kinzinger take off on twitter last night. i mean, to your point that we're all on twitter. saying, you know, if anyone at fox is a real journalist, now would be a good time to quit after their decision not to air the hearings. i used to ask that question of the trump administration. if any of you weren't fine with grabbing women between the legs or good people on both sides of a kkk rally, why doesn't anyone quit? can you talk about the permission structure inside these media echo chambers to broadcast what a lot of them know are lies? >> i think a lot of them know are lies but they have been convinced of this apocalyptic view of america, they are the last line of defense against this horrible change that's coming, that is a more diverse, more culturally pluralistic --

>> do you think they believe that? >> i absolutely do -- >> do you think they -- >> there are definitely people both at fox and at the media outlets and in congress who are kind of like winking and nodding at this and there are a lot more people every single day, holding the levers of power in the conservative movement in this country who absolutely believe it. >> how do you unwire that? because that takes more than just an election. that's an ideology that's dangerous. >> we've always had threads of that in this country. what has changed is demographic changes that have given disproportionate political power in the senate electoral college to that extreme minority and now because of facebook, social media, the internet, that -- that messaging is spreading hyper-speed at scale to people all over the world. all over the country and the world. you're not going to fix that overnight. in a lot of most hard core believers of that are never going to believe something different, just as the people on the left who will -- >> and i guess what you would say from campaigns is you don't need to convince all of them.

you just need the group that pays -- and the truth about swing voters is they're registered in one party or the other, but they pay attention to news. that's why the actual news is such a threat to the maga base. are you optimistic that this can be sort of called into question among enough voters to have a positive impact for democrats? or are you pessimistic at the end of this? >> i am realistic about the challenge. i have hoped that we can cross -- look, this is a country that has a growing progressive majority, that rejects this ideology, the ideology that fuels the right-wing media and fox in the republican party right now. i see a lot of really smart people digitally savvy progressives doing really interesting things, radically -- and i talk about some of them in the book, radically rethinking how we communicate with voters and that gives me hope. some of the next generation of democrats, whether it's stacey abrams or aoc or others are

incredibly savvy about how they're communicating and i think can go toe-to-toe with that right-wing media machine. >> do you think, though, those are the kind of voters that keep your big tent together? >> stacey abrams is someone who got more votes in georgia than any democrat before joe biden and rafael warnock. it has huge reach. some of them are going to be progressive. some will be moderate. beto o'rourke did some interesting things in texas, came very close to winning. and so i don't think ideology is the challenge here that we have to address. it is, can we communicate authentically with people on our own terms? >> and in an aggressive way. >> absolutely. >> there's such a hunger for democrats to be aggressive. thank you for writing the book. thank you for coming here and talking to us about it. congratulations. >> thank you. >> the new book "battling the big lie," is out now, dan and rick, thank you so much for being here today. shifting gears for us completely. there is a staggering number of civilians who have been killed or injured in a mounting guerilla resistance to russian occupation. we'll check in on the war in

ukraine with our good friend, igor nobikov, who's in kyiv today. friend, igor nobikov, who's kinyiv today. and, we're back! it's time to see which chew provides the longest-lasting flea and tick protection. bravecto's the big winner. 12 weeks of powerful protection, nearly 3 times longer than any other chew. bravo, bravecto! bravo! ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. that's why we build technology that helps everyone come to the table and do more incredible things.

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with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ we need to reduce plastic waste in the environment. that's why at america's beverage companies, our bottles are made to be re-made. not all plastic is the same. we're carefully designing our bottles to be 100% recyclable, including the caps. they're collected and separated from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. that completes the circle and reduces plastic waste. please help us get every bottle back. we're going to turn to ukraine. there is some harrowing news this morning out of ukraine. the united nations released new figures showing the staggering death toll from the war with russia. u.n. confirms that at least 4,253 civilians have been killed. the number includes 272 children

since february 24th with officials saying that the actual figures are significantly higher as many death reports are still being corroborated from areas where the fighting continues. it's horrible and tragic news comes as russia continues to claim that it's making major advances in ukraine. the kremlin today stating that it's taken control of 97% of the luhansk province of the donbas as russia attempts to take control of the eastern part of that country. comes after the news we told you about yesterday, about the first air strikes in kyiv in more than a month just as life seemed to be returning to a new normal in the ukrainian capital. joining us now, our good friend, igor nobikov, former advisor to ukraine's president zelenskyy. first, you and i talk, even when you don't appear here, and i feel like there is a consequence when america moves off this ongoing raging war in ukraine. can we talk about that first? >> yeah, well, obviously, i mean, the world's attention is our best defensive weapon.

the only weapon that we have. it's the only way for us to defend the lives of -- and the wellbeing of our civilians, our soldiers, and even a freedom. i know it sounds bonkers but it's true and when the world looks the other way, i mean, we're one-on-one with russia. that's incredibly difficult. there's also second reason. i'll give you a bombshell now. look, back in the day, when i was zelenskyy's advisor and i was dealing with a certain rudy giuliani, for example, some of the people on his team, some of his representatives actually lobbied us to provide water to ukraine, claimed to be in direct contact with the russians so that's the -- talking directly political spectrum in check because, i mean, this is not a political situation. it's a war of extermination and

we need to keep the world's attention. otherwise, we're in trouble. >> can you tell us what's been happening? i mean, i know you follow the news very closely here. you know that we have been burying the dead from mass shootings in buffalo and uvalde. but it sounds like this war has taken a really brutal turn in the east. can you tell us what's happening? >> well, it's a very intense and a very localized war now, so as i mentioned a couple of times before, my cousin is actually a soldier fighting on the front lines and i spoke with him today. he got a couple days off, actually shot down a russian helicopter a week ago, so he told me that the situation is very bad, and i quote. so, you know, russia is slowly advancing and we need those weapons. i mean, the rocket systems and the rest as quickly as possible. i mean, it's a matter of life and death for ukraine. >> president zelenskyy made his way to the front lines. can you talk a little bit about

the mood of the country and how, at this point, 100 days, i think, maybe 102 days in, it is sort of the tenacity and the skills of the ukrainian military and the strength of the ukrainian people that has been the big story that we focused on so much, but how are people holding up 100 days or 102 days in? >> well, people, first of all, they're exhausted. it's not something you should be living through for a hundred days or 200 days, whatever. it's incredibly terrible, and i feel really sorry for every horrible situation that happens to do with guns in the u.s., but it's very similar, and i said that before. i mean, ukraine's been going through continuously, nonstop, 24/7, for more than a hundred days. so, there's also a beginning of an insurgency in southern ukraine, which is, on one hand,

a very welcome sign that kind proves russia wrong, that people don't support it, but at the same time, you know, those people are in the very dire situation because, i mean, yeah, i mean, ukraine is known for its insurgencies. i mean, ukrainian patriotic army after the second world war fought the russians well into the '50s in ukraine, but at the same time, i mean, there's only so much they can do, and unfortunately, russia is just increasing the oppression of those people. we see infiltration camps, torture, murders, deportations. i mean, the number of kids, ukrainians, simply ukrainian kids they've forcibly deported to russia is just staggering and horrifying at the same time. >> so, what is -- i mean, can you talk to us about some of those -- it's hard to know what to trust. we use the u.n. numbers because they seem to be quoted in the most places, but do you have any more reliable sense of the number of lives disrupted, injured, killed in ukraine? >> well, it would only be an educated guess but i'll give you

something to kind of go by. i've spoken to a few people and i have seen this number pop up constantly. in the bucha district alone, the infamous bucha, where the population just under 37,000 people before the 37,000 people before the warrer there are more than 1,000 casualties. so multiply that by the entire length of the front line, and i think the numbers are going to be horrifying. but unfortunately we're not going to learn. >> igor, what is the ting that america and americans can do now to stay connected, to continue to stand by our allies and to stand by people who 103 days ago were living the lyes we were living and have had their whole worlds destroyed, shattered? >> well, i mean, easiest thing you can do for us is pay

attention. i know it's difficult women live in a crazy world of the internet and all the depp/heard trials and all those distractions, and the cats of the instagram alone, i mean, come on. ukraine must get boring at some point, but you know, keeping that focus, that attention partially an ukraine is important, although it might seem impossible. and here's a positive story. you know i was not going to leave with you that one. >> i knew it was coming. >> yeah, it's a sad story that has an interesting ending. so here's the bad news. i've actually learned -- there's this platform called roblox. it's char to mine craft. it's a metaverse on the internet where kids play, and that platform is refusing to leave russia. so they let the russian accounts play. and the russians have been systematically that razz you're razzesing ukrainian teenagers.

i learned the story of a 13-year-old girl who got harass by 20-something-year-old players from siberia, and they painted zs and swastika over ukrainian flag she painted and shouted to her. it was horrible. now for the good news. that girl was sofia, my daughter. now, a little background knowledge about me -- i mean, i've spent more than six years studying psychological warfare. i moderate open intelligence -- open source intelligence community. i teach counterpropaganda, counterdisinformation for a living. so we decided to have a little fun since they were over 18. in two hours, thanks to ukrainian volunteers, we had the phone numbers, the addresses, because of the stories in social media work we knew what their partners looked like, who they were, who they were friends with, and then we decided to give them that immersive experience of what it's like being a ukrainian teenager. very heavily inspired by the

horror flicks from hollywood. so, the end of the story, disclaimer, no psychological damage to them, but we spoke to them after three days of subjecting them to the movie the ring, pretty much. and they swore they'll never support putin again. we actually jumped on a phone call with them at the end. two morals of the story. first of all, i mean, we need to pay attention to social media multiplayer games. and this war extends way beyond the real world. it stems into that gaming metaverse, and also roblox should leave russia. it's a serious situation. but, you know, it ended well, so -- and sofia's learned her lesson, so i think next time she'll do it herself. >> she's lucky she has you for a dad to get in there and launch your professional acumen against the russian players. igor, it's a pleasure to talk to you, and i am sorry that this

conversation is long overdue. good to see you. stay safe. >> thank you. quick break for us. we will be right back. k break fs we will be right back. because when you save money, you can live better. attention please. millions of at&t and verizon customers are suffering from unexpected price hikes and economic adjustment charges. but there is a solution.

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it's tuesday. that means it's primary night in america. voters in seven states are going to the polls today, including voters in california and new jersey. the results in those races will shape the matchups for november as democrats fight to keep control of congress. join msnbc's coverage throughout the night as the results come

steve kornacki will be at his big board and we'll be up late tonight following the results from the west coast. it all starts in two hours on msnbc. another quick break for us. we'll be right back. msnbc. another quick break for us we'll be right back. i mean, "riders" is cool, but "bikers"...is really cool. -seriously? -denied. can we go back to meeting at the rec center? the commute here is brutal. denied. how do we feel about getting a quote to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? should flo stop asking the same question every time? -approved! -[ altered voice ] denied! [ normal voice ] whoa. hey businesses! -approved! -[ altered voice ] denied! you all deserve something epic! so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? yep! every business deserves it... like one's that re-opened! hi, we have an appointment. and every new business that just opened! like aromatherapy rugs! i'll take one in blue please!

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join over 3 million members and start enjoying rewards like these, and so much more in the xfinity app! and don't miss jurassic world:dominion in theaters june 10th. thank you for letting us into your homes in these extraordinary times "the beat" with ari melber starts now. >> hi, nicole. thank you. i am ari melber. we have an unusual show for you tonight. we have a special report on justice in america and whether donald trump will be charge in the georg that actually remains the one place, the one jurisdiction where he faces the most criminal liability. that's coming up after our first break. the question, though, in that special report overlaps with the top story tonight, the january 6th committee barrelling towards those high stakes, live

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