welcome everybody. i'm alex with, filling in for yasmin -- this hour and msnbc special.

the january 6th committee hearings. an in-depth look at the committee's dramatic first public hearing this week. >> donald trump was up the center of this conspiracy. >> president trump summoned the mob, assembled the mob and lit the flame of this attack. >> but committee providing a wealth of material, including never before seen footage of the riot as it unfolded. >> [noise] >> they were peaceful people. these were great people. the crowd was unbelievable. there was love in the air. i had never seen anything like it. >> an emotional testimony from the capitol hill police officer who nearly died trying to hold

the line. >> there were officers on the ground, they were bleeding, they were throwing up, they, i mean as a friends with blood all over their faces. i was slipping in peoples blood. it was carnage. it was chaos. >> the committee, laying all of that blame squarely on the feet of one, that donald trump, using words from his own loyalists and family to make the case that he knew although all along that his big lie was just that, a big lie. >> -- the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out the stuff which i told the president was -- and i didn't want to be a part of it. >> did that change your perspective about the election when attorney general barr made

that statement? >> it affected my perspective. i respect attorney general barr. so i accepted what he said was saying. >> committee chair liz cheney laying out in a clear, methodical presentation the evidence they gathered about how then-president trump had to cling on to power by fueling the flames of discontent. and then reveled in the clay chaos, even when it came to the threats against his own vice president. >> where were the rioters had a chance to hang mike pence, the president riman responded with this sentiment, maybe our supporters have the right idea. mike pence quote deserves it. >> the former president saying that about his own vice president. shocking words for sure. we want to start this hour with more of the hearings as it happened. we begin with where the committee really began its case. the unequivocal proof that trump was told in no uncertain terms he had lost the election

by multiple people in his orbit, his attorney general, his own disorder and key campaign advisers. >> i was in the oval office, and at some point in the conversation, -- the lead out a person was brought on, and i remember he delivered to the president in pretty blunt terms that he was going to lose. >> and that was based on the data teams assessment of this county by county, state by state results as reported? >> correct. >> alex cannon was one of president trump pain lawyers. he previously worked for the trump organization. one of his responsibilities was to assess allegations of election flawed in november 2020. here's one sample of his testimony discussing what he

told white house chief of staff mark meadows. >> i remember a call with mr. meadows where mr. meadows was asking me when i was finding and if i was finding anything. and i remember sharing with him that we weren't finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states. >> when was that conversation? >> probably in november. mid to late november. i think it was before my child was born. it what was >> meadows reaction to that information? >> i believe he used, so there is no there there. there is no there there. ? >> the trump campaign's mad -- he explained all of the fraud

allegations and the campaign's other election arguments taken together and viewed in the best possible light for president trump, could still not change the outcome of the election. president trump's attorney general bill barr also told donald trump his election claims were wrong. good >> repeatedly told the president and no one's are in terms, that i did not see evidence of fraud. that would have affected the outcome of the election. and frankly, a year and a half later, i haven't seen anything to change my mind on that. >> attorney general barr also told president trump that his allegations about dominion voting machines were groundless. >> i saw absolutely zero basis for the allegations, but they

were made in such a sensational way, that they obviously would influence a lot of people, members of the public, that there was a systemic corruption in the system and that their votes didn't count. and these machines controlled by somebody else were actually determining it. which was complete nonsense. it was being laid out there. i told him that it was crazy stuff and they were wasting their time on that. it was doing a great, great to service to the country. >> the president trump persisted, repeating the false dominion allegations in public, at least a dozen more times, even after his attorney general told quote they were complete nonsense. after barr's resignation on december 23rd, the acting attorney general who replaced, i'm jeff rosen, and the acting deputy, richard donahue, told president trump, over and over

again, that the evidence did not support the allegations he was making in public. many of president trump's white house staff also recognize that the evidence did not support the claims that president trump was making. this is the president's daughter commenting on bills barr's statement that the department found no fraud sufficient to overturn the election. >> how did that affect your perspective about the election, when general barr made that statement? >> it affected my perspective. i respect attorney general barr. so, i accepted what he said was, saying. >> still, trump persisted and working to overturn the election results. here's committee with new details on the heating meeting in the oval office just before january 6th. >> on december 18th, 2020, a group including general michael flynn, sydney powell, rudy giuliani and others visited the

white house. they stayed late into the evening. we know that the group discussed a number of dramatic steps, including having the military seize voting machines and potentially re-run elections. you will also hear the president met with that group alone for a period of time, before white house lawyers and other staff discovered the group was there and rushed to intervene. a little more than an hour after miss powell, mr. giuliani, general flynn, and the others finally left the white house, president trump sent a tweet on the screen now, telling people to come to washington on january 6th. be there, he instructed them, will be wild. as you will see, this was a pivotal moment. this tweet initiated a chain of events. the tweet led to the planning for what occurred on january 6th, including by the proud boys, who will led the invasion

of the capitol and the violence on that day. the indictment of a group of bad boys alleges that they plan to quote oppose by force the authority of the government of the united states. according to the department of justice, on january 6th, 2021, the defendants directed mobilized and led members of the crowd on to the capitol grounds and into the capital. leading to the dismantling of metal barricades and destruction of property the, breaching of the capital building, and the assault on law enforcement. although certain former trump officials have argued that they did not anticipate violence on january 6th, the evidence suggests otherwise. as you will see in our hearings, the white house was receiving specific reports in the days leading up to january six, including during president trump's ellipse rally, indicating that elements in the

crowd were preparing for violence in the capitol. on the evening of january the 5th, presidents close advisor steve bannon, said this on his podcast. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. just understand this. all hell is gonna break loose tomorrow. >> as part of our investigation, we will present information about what the white house and other intelligence agencies knew. and why the capital was not better prepared. but we will not lose sight of the fact that the capitol police did not cause the crowd to attack. and we will not blame the violence that day, violence provoked by donald trump, on the officers who briefly defended all of us. in our final hearing, you will hear moment by moment account of the hours-long attack, for more than half a dozen white house stuff, both live in the hearing, room and via videotape

testimony. there is no doubt the president trump was well aware the violence as it developed. white house staff urged president trump to intervene and call off the mob. here's a document written while the attack was underway. by a member of the white house stuff. advising with the president needed to say, quote, anyone who enter the capitol without proper authority should leave immediately. this is exactly what his supporters on capitol hill and nationwide were urging his president to. do he would not. you will hear that leaders on capitol hill begged the president for help. including republican leader mccarthy, who was quote scared. and called multiple members of president trump's family after he could not persuade the president himself. not only did pro president trump refused to tell the mob to leave the capitol, he placed no call to any element of the united states government to instruct that the capital be

defended. did not call the secretary of defense on january the 6th. did not talk to his attorney general. he did not talk to the department of homeland security. president trump gave no order to deploy the national guard that day. he made no effort to work with the department of justice to coordinate and deploy law enforcement assets. >> sit with that for a minute. our special coverage on the january 6th committee hearings continue. i have an excellent panel to break it all down. after this short break, cheney details how multiple capitol members discuss removing trump from office. plus gripping tara monee testimony by capitol police officer. >> i was slipping in peoples blood. i was catching people as they fell. i was, it was carnage.

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administration who for months gleefully peddled the presidents lie publicly. listen. >> you will hear about members of the trump cabinet, discussing the possibility of invoking the 25th amendment and replacing the president of the united states. multiple members of president trump's own cabinet resigned immediately after january 6th. one member of the cabinet suggested that the remaining cabinet officers need to take a more active role in running the white house and the administration. when the president fails to take the steps necessary to preserve our union, or worse, causes a constitutional crisis, we are in a moment of maximum danger for a republic. some in the white house took responsible steps to try to prevent january six. others egged the president on. others, who could've acted, refused to do so. in this case, the white house counsel was so concerned about

potentially lawless activity that he threatened to resign multiple times. that is exceedingly rare and exceedingly serious. it requires immediate attention. it's specially when the entire team threatens to resign. however, in the trump white house, it was not exceedingly rare and it was not treated seriously. jarred, are you aware of instances where -- threatened to resign? >> like i said, my interest at that time was trying to get the pardons done, and i know that he was always saying all, we're gonna resign, we're not gonna be here if this, happens of that happen, so i kind of took it up to just be whining to be honest with you. >> for more on all this, let's bring in right now msnbc legal analyst joyce vance, msnbc political analyst matthew dowd, and msnbc contributor and

coauthor of the book i alone can fix it, donald j trump's catastrophic. year big welcome to your. all caroline let start with you. give me a sense of what the most important information that we learn from that first hearing thursday night. >> first, off i'd like to credit can delaney an msnbc for describing it as exactly as it was. it was the opening statement of a prosecutor laying out the culpability of donald trump. with both chairman thompson and liz cheney, the group laid out all of the ways, all of the evidence of people around donald trump who was telling him repeatedly, you lost the election. there is no significant fraud that would change the results. and you have to stop doing this. and violence is likely if you continue to try to solve in a mob to the capitol. those things tell you the

evidence suggesting donald trump's intent was to blow through facts, ignore them, promote falsehoods, in a conspiracy, a multi-step conspiracy to block the peaceful transfer of power. and use every lever he had behind that green curtain. at the temple of oz. to use every level he lever he had, even though he was worn this was illegal, and this was dangerous. to proceed, to promote the big lie, and to whip up a fearsome mob to accomplish what he hoped to accomplish. >> it terms of the doj joyce, we know attorney general garland is watching these hearings very closely. based on what you've heard so far, and with the community has suggested we're gonna hear over the next several weeks, is that enough to prove conspiracy and bring charges against donald

trump? >> the evidence at this point against donald trump is accumulating, it's strong, it's solid. there is clear evidence at this point that there was a conspiracy at the goal of which to interfere with the certification of the election. i think it's very hard at this point based on what we know to assert that donald trump was not involved with that conspiracy in some capacity. when doj evaluates evidence in a situation like this, they have just two questions. can we indict? and here is my sense is the evidence cross that threshold. but the second question is should we indict? and too many people the answer to that seems easy an obvious, given the criminality that we've seen evan aiding from the oval office, it's a deceptively difficult question to answer. doj will have to carefully parse through the implications

of inviting a former president. and everything that brings with. that all the trappings that -- becoming a banana republic, where politicians are routinely indicted by their successors. ultimately doj will have to consider whether this moment was so singular in american history, this efforts attempts by this president to hold on to power through any at, what does that merit accountability through the criminal justice system? -- >> with regard to the should part, josh, which can you throw out the quote, this will be from barbara mcquade, a fellow msnbc legal analyst, and she brings up among those things what could happen.

that is a concern about violence. is that something that garland has to be concerned about work t to indict donald trump? >> one of the factors that prosecutors are told to consider in the federal principles of prosecution, when they look at cases, is whether there's a national interest involved in bringing the case. this is a difficult question in the situation. i think it's unprecedented. and we all hate saying unprecedented. but we are clearly in uncharted waters. garland will have to consider whether the country's interest in vindicating itself is so strong here that it is worth running whatever garland assesses are the risks. an important part of that, and what makes this very different from this than watergate, is when nixon left office, it was clear that he was not coming back. with donald trump, though he's made it clear that he's gonna try to return, gonna try to win office again, and garland left

away the nations interest and seeing a prosecution whatever the cost might be in this particular instance. >> so matt, was it a strategic error for kevin mccarthy to discourage other republicans, and the two that sit there, cheney -- from sitting on the committee? what's the f to loose? couldn't the president of trump's loyalists blunted the findings? or was he afraid that those appointed might come to the conclusion that they agree with what we've been told? >> well, first, i want to quickly address something that joyce said. i actually think there is a precedent for this. the president for this is when we don't hold people accountable to the law, especially in this instance, it festers and indicates the republic. the perfect example of that is what happened after the civil war, when lincoln wanted to exiled leaders of the confederacy, he gets killed. and then andrew johnston

dismisses reconstruction, pardons every single confederate leader, and what we are left with was 100 years, it took 100 years before the ideals of abraham lincoln were actually foster, because we didn't hold the people accountable in the moment and processed through. i think we are in that same moment. if we don't do that, then we've decided the president is above the law and can do anything they want, even a treasonous activity as regards to an insurrection. not your question. i think he made a huge mistake. but this is not, the cloud that surrounds donald trump ville is not strategic. i think it was a visceral decision. nothing kevin mccarthy didn't want to get the antipathy of donald trump, if he said yeah i'll do, that and donald trump will say why are you going along with that? it's just a mistake. if he was a strategic about, it and just reacting viscerally, not wanting to get donald trump mad. i think it was a huge mistake.

one, if they had people on the committee they would know that the be aware of all of the things that are being presented and going to come out. so they could've gotten out more in front of them and not be surprised, and not know exactly where this prosecuting cases going. so that's one instance. the second instance if they could've interrupted, they could've stopped the stream of events in the course of these hearings, they could've made it more unclear to the american public, in all of those different ways that they could act in a dramatic fashion at a hearing, and all the different things, if a trump loyalist or republicans who don't believe in this commission, it was a fundamental error. it doesn't surprise me in the world of trump, that they don't think strategically. the only thing viscerally. >> yeah yeah. the washington post reported yesterday representative liz cheney urged her fellow community members against investigating virginia thomas. -- direct respect any --

do you fear that perhaps the committee may have put all of its eggs in one basket with the focus on donald trump? >> this committee, as led by a former federal prosecutor who has incredible chops, and by other federal prosecutors who are deputies to him, realizes with their essential purposes. that's what liz cheney is trying to tell the republicans and the public. they didn't go at this thinking, we are going to indict donald trump, because that's not within their power. they went out this trying to figure out what were the events that led to our democracy almost getting a mortal dagger in the heart. what's almost led to a situation in which we might not have a duly elected president running the country today, it's a few things that gone differently on that violent, chaotic, series of events on january 6th. so ginni thomas is ultimately a

sideline, a slight player, in the effort to understand what happened, what caused january six and how do we prevent it from happening again? i think the committee is very much, according to my sources, mindful of their central duty. if a president can make this happen, if a president can lead to the fomenting of a mob that attacked our democracy, and threatens to kill our vice president, then we have to find ways to stop that through laws, through statutes, policy, we have to prevent that from happening again. ginni thomas's role ultimately, while shocking, because of a relationship with the chief justice of the supreme court, and a worry about why clarence thomas does not do this as an appearance of a serious conflicts of interest, that's

really shocking an important. but it is ultimately not at the center of the committee's work. >> all right. the three. view that want to thank you so much. i hope garland knows his mid 19th century history as well as you too, with that vignette that you explain to us. you're right. that gives us something that actually sets a level of precedents. thank you all. up next, the committee unveiled video of the attack never seen before by the public. >> [noise] [inaudible] for 45 years. i've been taking prevagen on a regular basis for at least eight years. for me, the greatest benefit over the years has been that prevagen seems to help me recall things and also think more clearly.

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it >> welcome you all back as you heard vice chair liz cheney recounting on thursday former presidents stunning support of rioters demands to hang mike pence over pence's over pence's decision not to buckle under trump's demands. -- the committee also revealed new never before seen footage from the capitol attack. let's take a look. >> i am not allowed to say what's going to happen today, because everyone's just gonna have to watch for themselves. >> [inaudible] [noise] this is now essentially a riot. we have a breach of the capitol. >> mike pence didn't have the courage to do a should have been done to protect our country and our constitution, giving states a chance to

assert -- [inaudible] the u.s. demands the truth. >> [noise] hang mike pence. hang mike pence. hang mike pence. hang mike pence. hang mike pence. that >> we need an area for the house members. they're all walking over now. >> [noise] [inaudible] >> we're coming in if you don't

bring her out. you back up. >> [noise] [inaudible] >> they were peaceful people. these were great people. the crowd was unbelievable. that i mentioned the word? love the love in the air i've never seen anything like it. >> love? and for the first time, the public heard chilling testimony from kara capitol police

officer caroline edwards, who is believed to be the first police officer injured that day. she was pepper sprayed and suffered a concussion after she was shoved by rioters who force their way through the barricades. -- take a listen. >> i can just remember my breath catching in my throat because what i saw was just a war scene. it was something like i had seen out of the movies. i couldn't believe my eyes. there were officers on the ground, you know, they were bleeding. they were throwing up. they had, i mean i saw friends with blood all over their faces. i was slipping in peoples blood. i was catching people as they

fell. it was carnage. it was chaos. i can't even describe what i saw. never in my wildest dreams that i think that, as a police officer, as a law enforcement officer, i would find myself in the middle of a battle. i'm trained to detain, a couple of subjects, and handle a crowd, but i'm not combat trained. that day it was just hours of hand-to-hand combat, hours of dealing with things that were way beyond any law enforcement officer has ever trained for.

i just remembered that moment of stepping behind the line and just seeing the absolute war zone that the west front have become. >> officer edwards for trying to push back rioters, president trump was watching his followers from the comfort of his white house. members of congress were trapped inside the car -- among those trapped -- for you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ ♪ ♪

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and to secretary, miller -- kept the guard down here, put down this situation, et cetera. >> by contrast, hears general milley's description of his conversation with president trump's chief of staff mark meadows on january 6th. >> he said we have to kill the narrative that the vice president is making all the decisions. we need to establish the narrative that the president is still in charge, and that things are stable -- i mediately interpreted that as politics, politics, politics, red flag for me personally with no action, but i remember -- >> america's top military leader there, treatment of the joints chief of staff mark milley offering testimony about the role and actions of vice president mike pence on january

6th. his comments before the house select committee illustrating the vp's efforts to put an end to the insurrection attempt, while former president trump did nothing to stop the attack. joining me now to discuss trump's inaction, and pence's efforts to fulfill his constitutional obligations as illinois democratic congressman russia -- a member of the house intel committee who was inside the capitol during the attack. i welcome you, sir, it is good to talk with you again. let me just say i was watching you on a monitor here in the studio as we were playing part of the video showing the insurrection, and also listening to officer edwards. you watched intently to officer edwards, yet i saw look away at points during the actual violence and the mob and what was going on. how much does this bring back, to you, what you must have suffered through in a very frightening way on that day? >> well thanks, alex, it is not as dramatic a day --

i found out there is a bomb placed 200 feet from my office window that day, alex, and i was evacuated maybe two or three times from building to building until we could hide in place, get hold up while the insurrection was put down. it is very traumatic for me and my colleagues, and i think that quite frankly, it is just one of the pieces of footage that brings back some haunting memories from that day. >> i can imagine. i'm sorry you have to go through that. but let's talk about the initial presentation by the house select committee, specifically to the role of former vp mike pence, and trump's attempt to villainized him to the angry mob. what are your thoughts on that? >> my thoughts are that it was one of the most insidious acts that the president and administration could take. one of the interesting things that i was piecing together, i had a chance to question acting

secretary of defense chris miller with regard to the delayed response of the d.c. national guard, and other a law enforcement authorities while the insurrection was going on. there's about a three hour gap between the time that people were requested help, and when it finally arrived, and now we know based on what we heard during the hearings a couple nights ago that trump inaction actually lead to that particular situation. in other words, that was a deliberate attempt to keep the national guard from putting the right down. that is the biggest -- duty you could possibly imagine, because people were obviously getting injured, and in some cases mortally injured. 140 officers were injured in total. of course, the capitol was breached, and as you know, they wanted to do harm to pence and

speaker pelosi and others. so, i'm just piecing together some of the testimony from before, and now it is starting to come together as to why the response was delayed. >> the committee also says that they have multiple republican lawmakers who saw presidential pardons including pennsylvania congressman scott perry, following the attack on the capitol, take a listen. >> as you will see, representative perry contacted the white house in the weeks after january 6th to seek a presidential pardon. multiple other republican congressman also sought presidential pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the 2020 election. >> well a perry spokesperson has stated this is a ludicrous and soulless lie. but i would like your reaction to the comments that were laid out by liz cheney regarding the complicity of fellow members of congress. >> well first of, all we are

going to have to hear what the evidence says on this particular issue. but if it is correct that folks like mr. perry and others sought a pardon, then we have to understand why. why is it that they sought a pardon? what was the activity or, what was it that they did that they were so worried about? that is really at the heart of whether it was complicity or more, and then we have to look at the evidence and determine where to go from there. >> attorney general merrick garland has a lot riding on him at this state of the game. we know he is someone who does not like to engage in the marriage of the law and politics. but how does -- likely do you think these bipartisan hearings are to result and potentially charges against the former president? >> i don't know. i think that he, like everyone else, is going to wait for the

evidence to unfold. in general, as i have said on your program, in the past, i think the attorney and department of justice have been slow with regard to the prosecution of numerous cases related to january 6th, i think hundreds of people who breached remain and arrested or not prosecuted. and, you know, people like even the bomb maker that i was referring to earlier with regard to the bomb, 200 feet from my office window, we still don't know who made it or who the masterminds were behind that. so i'm just a little concerned about the tempo of the investigation. i know the doj conducting its own, but we have to accelerate this because the longer that we prolong it, the more the people who did it as well as others who might be contemplating other acts of insurrection think that they can get away with it. that would be just horrible. >> absolutely critical concerns are expressing their. thank you, sir, for your time.

coming up, what's expect from monday's public hearing and those in the weeks ahead, including testimony from former active attorney general under president trump jeffrey rosen. our special coverage on the january 6th hearings we'll be right back. ght back ♪♪ ♪ thunderstruck ♪ ♪♪ ♪ thunderstruck yeah, yeah♪ now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. that's why we build technology that helps everyone come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ wow! it's been 38 years since we were here. back then we could barely afford a hostel. i'm glad we invested for the long term with vanguard. and now, we're back here again... no jobs, no kids, just us. and our advisor is preparing us for what lies ahead.

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republican colleagues, you are defending the indefensible. there will come a day when donald trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain. >> the committee is set to hold a -- six more public hearings this month, here's what we know about what is to come. this monday the committee is said to talk about the spread of the big lie, then on wednesday how doj can friend -- fred the former president, then thursday trump's efforts to pressure the vice president to refuse to count the electoral votes, we don't have dates for that three hearings after that, we do know they are set to cover the pressure campaign on the state officials, trump's incitement of the mob, and finally inside the white house on the day of january 6th. so far, witnesses are said to include former fox news political editor -- as well as former acting attorney general jeffrey rosen and greg jacob a key adviser to vice president pence. then both georgia secretary of

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gilchrist in four -- we have a lot of -- much for our lives rallies across the country today and a national call to action on gun regulation in the wake of the school shooting in uvalde, texas. activists hoping their voices will move those on capitol hill to do something. coming up, i will talk to activists touch my tragedy as well as congressman gerry connolly. also this hour, stunning new revelations about efforts some ginni thomas's wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas just avert the 2020 presidential election. this as the nation reacts to the start of the public hearings on the capitol riot including donald trump with a surprising message about his daughter ivanka. all that, plus gas prices hit a new high. the national average now topping $5 of gallon. live report on that is just ahead. now across the cnt t