it's probably one of the hardest times of my life. ever. i was just numb. my heart breaks. my heart breaks. >> casinos, charisma, connections. he was mr. big, -- >> it was very dark flamboyant. >> charming. >> his murder was big to. >> a car explosion at a posh resort, somebody wanted to make a statement. >> who would want him dead? or who wouldn't? a string of angry investors, even whispers about the mob.

>> everybody went, oh, this is mob connected. >> so why would police focus on her, a beautiful socialite, ex-wife number two? >> it was very intoxicating. >> i think she was cold and calculating. >> maybe her former husband was worth more dead than alive. >> it's easy to blame the rich, beautiful woman. the person everyone loves to hate. but she is completely innocent. >> or maybe it was someone else entirely. >> he is obsessed with gary triano, obsessed with him. >> it's a case we investigated for more than five years. now a stunning new in. >> we are going back up under a rollercoaster. spend a little time in tucson arizona and here, in the shadows of the majestic saguaros you will find a thriving metropolis of 1

million people, with a surprising small town feel. it's the kind of place where everyone seems to know everyone. and if you ask anyone from tucson where they were on november 1st, 1996, they will tell you it was the day of a murder. so dramatic, so horrific they will never forget it. >> it was the story that everyone talked about. >> the explosive and of a man who had been larger than life. >> gary had a presence, he had charisma. and the beginning of a mystery that would span nearly two decades. >> never, ever felt that it wouldn't be so. i tucson native, gary triano was a successful real estate developer and entrepreneur and he was known around tucson for his big spending ways.

he chauffeured limousine,'s and for rubbing elbows with folks like donald trump. like the song made famous by sinatra, the forceful and determine gary liked doing things his way. >> he was very, very brilliant. >> reporter: gary's niece, melissa triano. >> he had this personality that was charismatic. people were drawn to him. >> reporter: melissa says her uncle made her see the value in herself. >> my father moved away when i was 17. i was sort of a lost child, if you will. and my uncle kind of helped me realize a lot of my scales. and taught me a lot about the real estate industry. >> it was kind of a father figure? >> sort of, yes. >> and gary was a loving father to five children. four of them from his first two marriages. and a daughter with a woman he

dated named robin gardner. >> he was full of life, gary weighs more full of life than anybody i have ever known. when i met gary he was 21 years older than i. and we would go dancing. we would go to the movies. he was carrying. and fun. >> and charming? >> extremely charming. >> robin moved to tucson in her twenties, from a small town in the appalachian mountains. gary, she says, opened her eyes to a new way of life. >> i had never eaten at a five star restaurant. i had never drank fine wine. i had never been on a private jet. >> and, robin says, gary was generous with the money he made. >> gary was a big giver, a big giver. i remember we were at a restaurant, and there was a waitress that really seemed like she was struggling. he did an origami flower out of

a 100 dollar bill and gave it to her. he did that, not to showboat, he did it to be nice. he did it to be kind. >> and then came the day that changed everything. a nightmare come to life. it was late afternoon, november 1st, 1996. gary had just played a round of golf, at the top tier tucson country club called la paloma. he climbed into the lincoln town car he borrowed from a friend. and was then instantly killed. killed by a bomb that literally blew him to pieces, right they are in the parking lot. gary was just a few days shy of his 53rd birthday. some of his friends were already at his home, preparing for a surprise party. >> my cousin heather kept paging me, over and over again, 9-1-1, 9-1-1. and i thought it was because i was running late. and she was trying to figure

out where i was. >> melissa called her and mary, gary's first wife. >> my aunt mary answered the phone and told me that they believe that my uncle had been killed. and that they knew this because they were watching it on television. and that was his car. and i thought she was kidding. i completely -- i got angry and said, what do you talking about? this is not funny. >> she said, no, it's not a joke. >> reporter: she knew that he planned to meet up with some friends after the golf game. he talked with the bartender. there >> is michael there? please tell me he's. there and he said missy, i'm sorry, what i'm so sorry. >> that's a hell of a way to find out. >> yes, they found out by seeing it on the news. >> it was a very powerful bomb, a powerful explosion. >> melissa raced down sunrise drive to the scene.

>> i got out of the car and i started running towards my uncles car. and detective james gamber came running up and grabbed me. and stopped me from getting closer. what >> reporter: detective james gamber was one of the first at the scene. it was his second homicide case ever. >> i was doing dishes after dinner and i got a call that there had been a car bomb that la paloma, you need to go up there. >> what he saw may have rattled a far more seasoned detective. >> the roof had been peeled off the car, laying behind the car, and the windshield was gone. we found that the next day in the swimming pool of the country club. >> how far away? >> i would estimate 70 feet away, and had to go over some trees 20 vitol. >> i'm guessing that it was pretty clear that this was not an accident. this was not something wrong with the car. >> correct. >> he was dead, what, instantly? >> yes.

>> the goal watch around gary triano's frozen time at five away pm. his family and friends didn't know what to think. who could have done this? and why? coming up, the person who set off the bomb was watching gary triano get have's car? >> they're watching and saying, he's on to. it >> and the motive? what might that be? >> follow the money, follow the money, you look at who benefited from the death. >> when dateline continues. ♪i'm a ganiac, ganiac, check my drawers.♪ ♪and my clothes smell so much fresher than before!♪

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>> i was just so in shock, like the rest of my family. that this could happen at all. >> you don't want to believe it. and you don't want to accept it. no one that i know was killed with a bomb. it was like something on television. >> it was a crime scene no one will soon forget. >> i just thought, oh my goodness. i can't believe this is happening in tucson, arizona. >> reporter: lupita murillo has covered the case for one decades. well she -- >> people kill each other for all kinds of things. >> exactly, but a car explosion at a posh resort. obviously, someone wanted to make a statement. >> so this is a powerful bomb? >> yes. >> pima county sheriff's detective detective james gamber and a alphabet soup of investigative agencies, including the fbi and atf

started looking closely at the homemade bomb that had found its way to gary triano's passenger seat. >> we were able to determine that the vice was a 17 inch piece of pipe, about an inch and a half in diameter. >> reporter: the pipe was filled with explosive powder and it detonated by remote control. >> using something that is normally used to control boats, planes? >> correct. >> handheld planes? >> yes. >> reporter: investigators determined that whoever operated the remote control which probably they are in the parking lot. so the person who set off the bomb was watching gary triano get in his car? >> yes, we had every reason to believe, from the injury patterns, that he was picking up the bag the device was in when detonated. that would make me believe that someone is watching, and that he is on to it. and we have to detonate it now, before he realizes and has a chance to escape.

>> reporter: clearly, the killer had to know something about triano's routine. but detective james gamber soon discovered that a lot of people did. >> he had virtually no sense of personal security. he never locked his car, wouldn't lock's house. so someone with intel or information on gary's lifestyle could easily have set him up. and it appeared someone had checked on gary's whereabouts that day. >> what was interesting is that the day of the murder, someone called and asked if he was playing golf? >> man or woman? >> never identified, man. >> it made an impact on cambers boss. then sheriff clarence dubnick. >> i've never seen an assassination of this kind. if in fact it was a hit, it probably was a professional hits. >> reporter: could the sheriff be right? if so, who hired a hitman? who wanted triano dead? >> he was very flamboyant,

outgoing, engaging. he ran in real big circles, running around with donald trump, people like that. >> and he was throwing money around? >> yes. >> and so when a flamboyant guy dies in a flamboyant way -- >> yeah. >> people start thinking? >> you tie him with big money, flamboyant lifestyle, casinos, then killed in a car bombing? everyone makes this automatic assumption that that has to be some mob related hit. >> reporter: and as investigators look more closely into garry's finances, they saw only red ink. by the late eighties, the tucson real estate market has crashed and gary's bottom line took hit after hit. investors learned that in 1994, saddled with debts he couldn't pay, gary triano had filed for bankruptcy. he had rolled the dice and lost.

he old money to casinos and banks and the irs. and just a day before the bombing, a friend said that an extremely anxious gary had come to him, desperate for a 50,000 dollar loan. >> he was tapped out. >> when he died i understand that he had holes on the bottom of his souls in his shoes. >> any indication that any of the people to whom he old money, and they were a lot, were angry enough to kill him? >> no. there were people that openly said, he cost me money, he owed me money. but was it enough for me to kill him? no. >> reporter: not so fast, detective james gamber didn't know it at the time but fbi agents following the same trail had heard the name neil mcneice. the bureau received a tip that neil mcneice had experience with high explosives and that he had access to them.

and that he had a foul temper. and that he had a lot of money. but that was not the end of it. the bureau was also told that neil mcneice carried a profound hatred of gary triano. detective james gamber supervisor back then was keith st. john. >> and you had his name from two different sources. one of which was the fbi? >> yes. >> and you never talk to him? >> no. >> it would be years before investigators realize how significant an omission that was. but there is no disputing that the neil mcneice tip was never followed up. and so investigators changed focus. and looked away from gary triano's business relationships. >> you do two things. let's follow the evidence. and you say follow the money. always follow the money in a homicide. and then you look at who benefited from the death. >> reporter: investigators were

now examining gary triano's closest personal ties. was there someone closer to home? to whom gary may have been worth more dead than alive? >> i remember asking him, why would anyone want to follow you? and he said because of a life insurance policy. >> reporter: coming up, the women in gary triano's, what an ex wives club. and an angry former girlfriend. >> they were not happy, between she and gary triano. >> i think the current husband put it best. when robin is mad, you will know it. it's going to be a street fight. >> when dateline continues. was 16. now i have end-stage copd. my tip is, if you keep smoking, your freedom may only go as far as your oxygen tube. (announcer) you can quit. for help call 1-800-quit now.

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gary triano's gruesome death by car bomb had a lot of people wondering guess who is enemies were. investigators had been looking at gary's business dealings. but started hitting one dead and after another. so they began scouring his personal life. gary head lived large. and it turned out he loved that way of life. and he was no angel. by the time of his death, gary's name was already attached to two divorces and a trail of broken hearts.

he had left his first wife, mary, after two children and more than 20 years of marriage, to web a younger woman, pam phillips. gary had two more children with her. after that marriage ended, gary dated robin gardner for two years. and that union produced a daughter, elliott. but gary and robin never married. after an angry break up while robin we still married. 9-1-1 was even called after his death to report that robin showed uninvited to his home and threw a vase at him. robin told investigators she through the base at the ground after gary pushed her. and so investigators came knocking on robins door. >> they were pretty unhappy at the break up between she and gary triano. >> we looked into robin and i think her current husband put it best. when robin is mad, you will know it, and whatever will happen will happen right now.

so basically it's going to be a street fight. >> and you are convinced that while she was angry at gary triano, she wanted him alive. >> yes. i don't think she would have done that to their child. >> reporter: so investigators looked away from robin. and moved on to some of the other women and gary's life. he had maintained a good relationship with his first wife, mary, after the divorce. and investigators eliminated her. that left his second ex-wife, pam phillips. like gary, pam phillips had been married once before. the stunning blond had a business degree from the university of our sona. and was one of the women to find success working in commercial real estate in tucson in the late eighties. pam and gary seemed off to a good start in 1986. with an expensive black tie wedding on a yacht we on the coast of san diego.

>> i knew gary was mad about, her positively in love with her. >> the wedding photographer, gary's friend, david bean. >> they look like they loved and cared about each other. >> but reporter lupita murillo says, behind gary's back, tucson was whispering. >> what did you hear? >> that she was a gold digger. that she married gary for his money. and that she broke up his marriage. >> reporter: it's common for people on the outside to talk about the new wife that way. remember, gary had left his first wife or pam. that alone spark some anger in the triano family. brian and heather are gary's kids from his first marriage. initially they were less than thrilled about their father remarrying. >> she was a step mom. let's be honest. we were teenagers. >> not happy about your parents getting divorced. >> but it was hard to deny that the marriage was working. >> we saw them together, they were happy. they seemed happy.

>> they would sing love songs. >> reporter: gary and pam had some very good years, says his niece melissa. >> they were running around with marla maples, donald trump, friends with lee majors. and just taking really extravagant trips. >> money flowing like water? >> yeah. >> gary helped pam launch an astrology website, starbabies. com. the site was designed to give parents an astrological reading about their children. it was a business pan started after her children, trevor, and lewis were born. >> what do you say, try of? >> reporter: heather and brian say those new babies brought them closer to their new stepmother. >> we grew to like her and love her as a step mom. and as mother of our brother and sister. >> she was great, very sweet. and i think also being a girl, she helped me fix my hair or get some clothes. or new purposes, shoes. early stuff.

>> reporter: but by the early nineties gary's fortunes had faded and his marriage to pam as well. they were done after seven years. >> he said once, you know, i can understand, i just don't have the money that she was used to as having. >> reporter: pam moved to aspen after the divorce. and then once happy couple started fighting over just about everything. >> there was an ongoing legal battle over child support. she wanted it increased, she wanted it -- and use the bankruptcy to shield himself from having to pay increase child support. >> reporter: which, to some, was ironic. >> i was basically mr. mom. >> pam's former nanny, kevin mcdonald.

>> i was taking care of trevor and lewis for seven days a week. day and night. >> reporter: according to him, pam was too busy shopping to take care of her kids. shopping, that is, for a new husband. >> she wasn't apologetic about it. all of her expensive -- she was getting worried. and said kevin, i'm down to my last $60,000. what should i do, she said. >> i said, get the job. >> but she was focused on finding a man with a job, a good one. >> she wanted to find a husband that was worth at least $20 million. that's what she told me. worth $20 million. >> so the pan that married gary triano for his money hadn't changed. except zip codes. >> yes. zip code and whether. >> reporter: but while pam was looking for the right deal in

aspen, back in tucson, gary triano was feeling uneasy. >> gary said, i think we are being followed. i just thought, you are starting to scare me, dude. [laughs] >> reporter: taylor show bergh, his girlfriend at the time, was gary was convinced that someone was following him. i remember asking him, why would anyone want to follow you? >> and he said, because of a life insurance policy. >> reporter: turns out gary was insured for $2 million. his children, trevor and lowest for the beneficiaries. until they turned 18, though, the money was controlled by their mother, pam. >> they had gone through a nasty divorce? >> yes. child custody and visitation battles. >> so it would be natural that you would be looking at her. >> yes. >> reporter: but detective james gamber's investigation showed that pam was in aspen, not tucson, on the day of the murder.

and pam the socialite certainly seemed more bombshell then bomb maker. and so pam phillips is probably not someone you thought was thinking around building a pipe bomb? >> no. >> reporter: detective james gamber and his team seemed to be had another dead end, until an alert detective 800 miles away caught a news report about the bombing. and some bells went off. coming up -- >> they found a note in the car, buy toothpaste, and down a little further was off shotgun. >> reporter: what could that have to do with the murder of gary triano? when "dateline" continues. the lows of bipolar depression can leave you down and in the dark. but what if you could begin to see the signs of hope all around you? what if you could let in the lyte? discover caplyta.

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♪♪ oh hey, don't forget about the tense music too. would you say tense? i'd say suspenseful. aren't they the same thing? can we move on guys, please? >> reporter: aspen, colorado. alexa, turn on the subtitles. and dim the lights. ok, dimming the lights. a year-round playground for the rich and famous.

>> reporter: aspen, colorado. a year-round playground for the rich and famous. sometimes for the people who pray on them. that's the kind of case that then as been police detective jim crowley called back in 1996. to local businesses said they had been defrauded by a man named ron young. >> but the scam was is that he would become a business manager, help you grow the company, and he did that part of it. but at some point he would have all your credit information so

we would apply for credit cards and your name. at himself as a sign or. uses credit cards to pay bills. >> as far as you can tell, he stole how much money? >> probably between 80 and $120,000. >> but before crowley could get an arrest warrant, ron young disappeared. >> he skipped town? >> yes. >> young fled in a rented mini van that later turned up in southern california. young himself was nowhere to be found. but what was found in the mini van was very curious. >> i note in the car that was kind of like a laundry list. buy toothpaste, down the list further was sawed off shotgun. >> reporter: ron young was not known as a violent criminal. but when police found a shotgun and a taser in the van, it may detective crowley that a man wanted for white collar crimes may possibly more be more

dangerous than he thought. in ron young's mini van, investigators found something else peculiar. paperwork related to the divorce of pamela phillips and gary triano >> at the time the name gary triano meant what do you? >> nothing. >> but pam phillips, that was a name that crowley had heard before. he knew her as another aspen resident who claimed she had been ripped off by ram young. pam said ron had stolen money from her business, starbabies. com. >> did she have a case? >> we don't know because she never came back and refused to answer my calls after. >> so she originally came to you and made it complaints -- >> backed off, yes. >> i never told you? i >> know. >> reporter: their former nanny remembers that ron and pam seem close. pam would come over at least two or three times a week.

and some nights, pam would cook for him, have romantic dinners with candlelight. and music. >> reporter: although, kevin says, ron didn't seem to be pam's type. >> he did not have any money. he was not a socialite. and that's why she generally went for. >> reporter: so what exactly was pans relationship with ron young? and why wouldn't pam cooperate with police? did you want to protect ron? or was she afraid of him? crowley didn't know what to make of it all. and then, about a month after ron young's van was found, the detective happened to read about the car bombing death of gary triano. >> i was aware that what he was gary's ex-husband. -- so that's what prompted me to call into tucson. >> reporter: >> reporter: well

detective james gamber and keith st. john were there when the call came into the department at tucson. it certainly got investigators attention, especially when they learned more about what was found in that van. there was a map of tucson and handwritten notes with the names and types of cars driven by some of gary triano's business associates, family and friends, including his niece melissa and one time girlfriend taylor. and there was more. >> and then we found a receipt for a hotel here in tucson, we are ron young stayed in the hotel, for 18 days, during the summer of 1996. >> which would be, what, a few months before gary triano was killed? >> yeah. >> and what was interesting about his choice of hotels, it was geographically almost halfway between where gary triano and the la paloma country club. >> where he played golf every? day >> yes. >> and even more suspicious, ron young stayed under a phony name. the name of one of the people

he was accused of defrauding in aspen. but that was well before the murder. and there was no evidence that ron young was in tucson when the bomb went off. >> reporter: anything in ron young's record or possession that suggested he either knew how to or was involved in building a remote control bomb? >> no. >> and he's got no history of working with explosives? >> that's correct. >> reporter: still, detective james gamber desperately wanted to talk with ron young. well >> it was an active fugitive case going on, because they had a fraud warrant. but he basically just fell off the face of the earth. >> reporter: who was ron young? and what was his relationship with pam phillips? nine days after the murder of her ex funds beyond, pam phillips agreed to come down to the sheriff's department for an interview. that conversation was recorded. >> i want to ask you about your

relationship with ron young. >> yeah. >> reporter: coming up -- >> the word that i was getting was that it was his former wife. and that this was his insurance policy. >> reporter: pam phillips day with detectives. >> she knew he was going to be -- >> reporter: too many reasons to be suspicious? we >> have this life insurance policy. >> gary is the one that took this out and he also insisted that it be in my. name >> reporter: when "dateline" continues. did i tell you i bought our car from carvana? yeah, ma. it was so easy! i found the perfect car, under budget too! and i get seven days to love it or my money back... i love it! i thought online meant no one to help me, but susan from carvana had all the answers. she didn't try to upsell me. not once, because they're not salespeople! what are you...? guess who just checked in on me? mom... susan from carvana! [laughs] we'll drive you happy at carvana. >> reporter: gary triano's

violent death by car bomb headset the tucson rumor mill on overdrive. but according to local nbc reporter lupita murillo, an awful lot of fingers were pointing in the same direction. >> within 24 hours after the dust settled, the word that i was getting was that it was his former wife. and it was because of this insurance policy. >> reporter: pam phillips, gary 's ex was someone that investigators wanted to talk with, especially afterward came from aspen that pam had been connected in some way to a fugitive on the run from fraud charges named ron young.

nine days after the murder, investigators got their chance. pam phillips voluntarily came in for questioning. >> i didn't give pamela out of what i knew. i let her talk and let her give me what she wanted to give me. >> reporter: detective keith st. john spoke with him three times, twice in person. >> for the record, tell me your full name. >> pamela and phillips. >> he asked him to talk about her relationship with gary, starting with how they met. >> was he already divorced? >> no. he was happily married. >> did she know about those meetings? >> she knew she was going to be scrutinized. i made it clear that we had to deal with the life insurance policy. we have the issue of the life insurance policy. she talked with me about how the payments were being made, when the payments were taken. out she seemed like she was up front.

>> gary is the one that took this out, he also insisted it was in my name. >> reporter: they discussed two out there could be angry at gary. >> gary had so many business dealings. and the insight that you can give us on those? >> he had so many enemies, you know? >> four key st. john, nothing stood out about those interviews, until he asked pam about ron young. >> something has come up that i want to ask you about. it is -- is your relationship with ron young. >> i don't really have a relationship with ron young. >> tell me what it is. >> he's a guy from aspen. god, how does his name come up? >> reporter: st. john felt he might have thrown pam off our game. >> we are trying to do our best on this. >> wow, he's a guy from aspen that did some financial stuff for me. >> are you aware of an arrest warrant out for him? >> no. >> and what was the last time you had dealings with him? >> well, it's been a long time.

since he was doing work for me. >> reporter: and pam denied ever having a romantic relationship with ron. >> and you are never were boyfriend girlfriend? never had an affair? >> no, no. >> in my opinion, she minimized it. she's saying, he's just the person that did some work for me, i didn't see them a month. >> now the guy was involved? with >> no. >> not a guy who i refused to sign the complaint down with the cops came? >> correct. >> but pans question to the ron young issue, the cops had nothing on her. nothing placing them in tucson on the day of the murder. and nothing connecting either one of them to the bomb that killed gary triano. >> after three interviews, other than this thing with ron young, and we didn't have him to talk to, there wasn't

anything that i thought that made her rise to the level of a suspect. >> reporter: and ron young was still somewhere in the wind. >> so safe to say this goes cold? >> yes. >> reporter: in january of 1997, pam phillips received her life insurance payment. $2 million. plus interest. >> did that insurance money give panda lifestyle back? >> for a short while, yes. $2 million does not go far and. aspen >> reporter: pam bought herself a house, 1 million dollar fixer upper. >> and with her exquisite taste, she turned it into a beautiful house. >> reporter: in fact, her deck was featured in the glossy aspen sojourner magazine. she was dabbling in real estate and trying to make starbabies. com a success. to help with the website, she invited gary's daughter, heather triano to come live with her in aspen.

>> i was a company, my father persist for her when they were married. this was great, i thought, this was something my father started. i will come and restarted as it wasn't developed. >> reporter: during the time the heather lived with pam, she took care of her younger siblings. but she never had a discussion with pam about gary's unsolved murder. >> we didn't talk about it, really. >> she was basically a member of your family, at least for a while, and clearly felt close to you. and she never once said, here's what i think happened? >> no. >> no, i don't think so. >> reporter: through the years, heather and brian maintain the relationship with him, even as they had families of their own. >> she was at my wedding. >> she was at my wedding and we were friends. >> reporter: but gary's nice melissa couldn't help suspect that pam had something to do with her uncle's murder. >> in my mind, the only person that had anything to gain from him dying ways pam.

>> there was really a rift in your family, wasn't there? some who believe that pam could never have de anything like this. and others who suspected. her >> yes. yeah. >> reporter: gary's ex-girlfriend robin move back to virginia in 2000, to raise their daughter elliott. >> he was a great father to all four of his other children. and elliott missed that experience. my daughter was a victim. >> reporter: for nearly a decade, gary triano's friends and family waited and hoped for an answer. as time went by and there weren't any arrests, what do you think? maybe i'm wrong about pam? maybe this will never be solved? >> no. i think part of me thought that in time, it would all be found out and that it just wasn't time yet. >> reporter: detectives waited to. until one day in 2005, when the tip came in from 2000 miles

away. coming up -- >> i helped you want something that was, beyond what anybody else in the world would probably do. >> reporter: secret tapes are about to warm up a cold case. >> there's plenty of stuff that i could dig out of the ground, literally. and you are a friday. >> the big thing with catching ron young is he collected all the evidence for us. the tapes for the gold mine. >> reporter: when dateline continues. ♪ (sha bop sha bop) ♪ ♪ are the stars out tonight? (sha bop sha bop) ♪ ♪ ♪ alexa, play our favorite song again. ok. ♪ i only have eyes for you ♪

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you know, the stevensons told me they saved money bundling their boat insurance with progressive. no one knows who those people are. -it can be painful. -hand me your coats. there's an extra seat right here. no, no, no, no, no. we don't need a coat wrangler. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home, auto, and more with us. no one who made the movie is here. when you bundle home, auto, and more with us. (sharon) suction out your tube before you eat. (shane) don't use spray paint. cpr is not mouth to mouth. it's mouth to stoma. (shawn) be very careful shaving. (announcer) you can quit. for free help, call 1-800-quit-now. >> reporter: nine years had

passed since gary triano was killed by a car bomb. police had investigated his business partners and then his ex-wife pam. and they had come up empty. they had deep suspicions about ron young, an accused con man with a murky connection to pam.

but investigators couldn't even find him. it looked as if the case may stay cold forever. and then, in 2005 -- with the tv show america's most wanted feature the triano case and focused on the fugitive ron young. and that works? >> it took about 19 hours. >> reporter: after nine years on the lamb, ron young was fingered in florida by a most unlikely tipster. >> his chiropractor called america's most wanted andy broward county team went out and pick them up. he had a scheduled appointments so they waited for him to show up at his chiropractors office. >> betrayed by a bad back, ron young is now in the hands of authorities. america's most wanted was there when ron was arrested on the old fraud charges and illegal possession of a handgun. and atf officer sat down with him for an interview.

>> did you have anything to do with the bombing? >> no. i had no reason to blow up anybody or kill anybody. >> the big advantage to catching ron young wasn't what he said in that interview, was it? >> no. the big advantage to catching ron young is, he collected all our evidence for. us >> reporter: inside wrong young's apartment in storage locker, investigators found a computer with emails, fedex receipts from spin and a stash of audiotaped that young had apparently recorded in secrets in the years following the murder. conversations with none other than pam phillips. >> the computer and the tapes turned out to be the gold mine. >> reporter: investigators began to play tape after tape. looking for anything that would shed light on the investigation. and on those tapes, they heard ron young threatening pam.

>> there's just plenty of stuff that i could literally dig out of the ground. and your afraid doc. >> reporter: hence mysterious conversations about banks in money. >> i can't deal with this. i can't. i'd rather die. >> then what? >> then sit here and deal with like, well, going to the bank which is totally illegal. every single week. i am not going to do it. >> what do you mean it's illegal? >> i am giving money to somebody, and not spending it. and not declaring it. and you are getting money. are you declaring it? >> listen, you are completely confused on that. >> reporter: and talk of some kind of pre-existing deal between the two of them. >> i am not going to keep sending you more and more and more money unless i know that you can honor our agreement. >> reporter: it all started to

add up, especially when we looked on ron's computer and found a detailed schedule of payments from pam. payments that were made carefully and surreptitiously using a cryptic code that the two had devised. >> i'm really happy that you are 1. 6 six was tax very. >> he talked about you've got your 1. 6 i got my four, which adds up to 2 million, adds up to the insurance payment. >> there is nothing on those tapes which says, ron young says, you hired me for this money to bomb your husband's car. >> it's not directly. but when you piece the conversations together, that is said. >> i helped you want something that was beyond what anybody else in the world would do. >> reporter: perhaps the most damning piece of evidence? >> would you sit in a women's prison for murdering? would you sit in a women's prisons for murder? >> i'm going to hang up.

>> as far as i know, the only murder in pam phillips life was the murder of gary triano. what >> reporter: coming up, a brand-new mystery. where was pam phillips? >> pam's disappeared. she could be anywhere in the world. but ask me to pull a rabbit out of my hat, i don't think i have any more. rabbits >> -- >> yes. >> when dateline continues. nues [ screaming ] [ dinosaur snarls ] flo: it's a good thing you bundled your home, auto, and rv insurance with progressive. you saved money and you get round-the-clock protection. so don't worry. it's all under control. [ screaming continues ] that's cool. we'll finish up here. bye! [ roars ] [ screaming continues ] that's why you go to the restroom before the movie starts. get epic protection for your dominion with progressive. why burn a candle when you can switch get epic protection for your dominion to air wick essential mist? it's the modern way to transform fragrance

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dollar life insurance policy. and he was using pam phillips at his bank he was earning 4% interest on his 400,000. >> why would someone who had committed a murder, a murder for hire, keep detailed records that would essentially prove their own involvement and that of the person they hired? >> two reasons, i think one if your ego is that big. if you think you will not get caught you are too smart to get caught. and to, your saving it as evidence or as a threat something to hold over your coconspirators. >> in case she stops thing? >> yes. >> ron young was sentenced to ten months in federal prison on gun possession charges. the fraud charges were eventually dismissed. detectives still did not have enough to charge ron young with gary triano's murder. but they did have enough to turn up the heat on pam. >> we went up to aspen and filed for a search warrant and

also let me search her house. >> but in her home, they didn't find anything related to ron young or the bomb. >> absolutely nothing related to the murder. >> once again, despite their suspicions, they couldn't charge pam phillips with any crime. for gary triano's children, heather and brian, it was impossible to believe their former stepmother could have anything to do with their father's murder. >> i was her friend i live with her. so no, i didn't think she was a suspect at all. >> then they read the search warrant affidavit, which detailed the audiotaped conversations between pam phillips and ron young. >> when you sit in a women's prison for murder, would you sit in a woman's prison for murder? >> and it's at that point, that we realized something was wrong.

that the whole thing was not right. >> what was it like you for you that she would have been your stepmother, and your friend. >> a very good friend. >> that she was implicated? >> i wanted to throw up. >> in november of 2007, 11 years after the murder, heather and brian along with gary's youngest daughter elliott, filed a wrongful death civil lawsuit against pam phillips, and ron young. elliott's mother, robin. >> it was not to recover money? the idea was to serve subpoenas, and maybe get the investigation going? >> it had came to just a slow halt. and it just seemed as if it was as cold as cold could be. so the children got together, and as you said, not for revenue. but to simply get the ball rolling. >> despite all the evidence investigators had uncovered in

ron young's possession. prosecutors in tucson, still didn't feel there was enough to charge either ron young or pam phillips with murder. why do you think prosecutors didn't want to bring a case? >> i don't know if there was an official reason, or if it was a reluctance on just the sheer size of the case. how big this case was, would it be a career ender case? so ... no one ever gave me a solid answer. >> frustrating? >> a little bit yes. >> but the civil suit change things. prosecutors decided, it was time to move. you think the wrongful death suit is sort of wet gilded prosecutors into going forward? >> or it showed them how valid the case was. >> nearly one year after the civil suit was filed in october, 2008. ron young who was out of prison for serving ten less on gun charges, was re-arrested in california. this time, for the murder of

gary triano. it ron young was flown back to tucson, lupita murillo is one of the people who like to greet visitors at the airport. >> good to be back in tucson, sir? >> well not so good. >> did you kill gary triano sir? did you place that bomb? >> no, of course not. >> is pam phillips your accomplice? >> where was pam phillips? it turns out, she may have outsmarted everyone. by leaving the united states, just one month before authorities filed arrest warrants for her and ron young. >> she took what we believe was an innocent trip to switzerland, to visit her daughter. >> and she decided what, i'm not coming back? >> i think when the news broke she made a conscious decision it would be best for her to stay in europe. >> but if you think she was living a rough life as a fugitive, think again. our cameras caught it

firsthand. went "dateline" tractor down in february, 2009. we found her living in the beautiful lake cytokine of --, switzerland. the area known of switzerland's version of monte carlo. her daughter, just a little girl when gary triano died, was now a college student there. we discovered pam phillips living in a 5000 dollar a month apartment. and she had made a new friend. a well heeled widower, for whom she would often dine overlooking the lake at this five star hotel. maybe it's proof, that if you do enough shopping, sometimes you find exactly what you are looking for. >> just basically living the very affluent lifestyle she didn't need to work, apparently >> back in pam phillips's former country of residence, and november, 2009. three of gary triano's children won their wrongful death lawsuit against pam phillips. a judge ordered her to pay them

$10 million. but gary triano's friends and family wondered, would they ever see pam phillips returned to the united states to face charges? because, by then, detective james gamber had learned pam was no longer in switzerland. >> and it's like i told heather, i said pam has disappeared. we don't know where she is anymore she could be anywhere in the world. and i said the sheriff told me to find her. and i said, they are asking me to pull a rabbit out of my hat, i don't think i have any more updates. >> you are feeling defeated? >> yes. >> and what did you think, you are never going to see pam phillips again? >> yes. >> coming up ... -- >> i think she was cold and calculated. >> so calculating she could allude the cops. the worldwide hunt for the socialite suspect is on. >> she had thought that she had gotten away with this. >> when "dateline" continues. "dateline" continues making friends again, billy?

i like to keep my enemies close. guys, excuse me. i didn't quite get that. i'm hard of hearing. ♪ oh hey, don't forget about the tense music too. would you say tense? i'd say suspenseful. aren't they the same thing? can we move on guys, please? alexa, turn on the subtitles. and dim the lights. ok, dimming the lights. there's an invisible threat in your backyard alexa, turn on the subtitles. that could cause deadly heartworm disease for your dog. but not if you protect him every month with heartgard plus, the #1 choice of dogs. digestive and neurological side effects have rarely been reported. ask your vet for heartgard plus. (rebecca) i would try and encourage anyone to quit smoking. i can't tell you what to do. but what i can tell you, is that this can happen to you. (announcer) you can quit. for free help, call 1-800-quit-now. >> in tucson, arizona, a

warrant was out for the arrest of socialite pam phillips accused of masterminding the death of her ex husband gary triano. there was only one problem, pam phillips was not in arizona, or the united states's, or switzerland where she had been living. like a femme fatale in an old movie, she had left town with no forwarding address. >> and that was one of the frustrations that was she was in the european union where there's basically no borders. you know, it is not like she has to go through emigrations or customs, she can move. >> but investigators in europe or cooperating with u.s. authorities, and they started tracking pam cell phone. >> so even though you don't

know where she was, authorities of there were still hot on the case? >> yes. >> they kept checking the records and looking for pam, and induce ember 2009 more than a year after she went on the land, they found her in austria. detective robin gardner received the newsom overseas, and realized he was not out of -- after all. >> a coded message that said she is in custody in vienna, do you want to extradite her? it was like in one word response, yes. >> but pam would spend some time waiting in an austrian jail first, while her accused coconspirator ron young stood trial. in february 2010, prosecutors presented their case against ron young to a jury, they argued ron young planted the bomb that killed gary triano, and that pam phillips paid him to do it. >> everything you say, everything you have heard,

weeks of conspiracy, it takes to people who are so cold and so greedy that they believe that nothing else matters. >> gary's niece melissa testified, and learned for the first time that her name had been on a list found in ron young abandoned van. >> it was alarming, it was horrifying. >> the defense argued that pam's payments to ron or just extortion, and blackmail, and that there is no evidence tying ron young to a bomb or placing him into exxon on the day of the murder. >> you have a -- just as much sense as -- >> the jury however did not buy it. >> we find the defendant ron young guilty of -- >> in march of 2010, ron young was found guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to

commit murder. he was sentenced to life in prison. just two months later, pam phillips was extradited back to the united states. you can guess who was there to welcome her back. >> what do you say to the -- family? what do you say to your own children who don't have a father, whose mom and dad will be in jail? >> but lupita murillo wasn't the only face she saw at the airport. was that like to see them come back to see trial? >> it was -- she was not happy to see me. >> also present, melissa triana. >> why was it important for you to be there? >> i think because she thought that she had gotten away with this and i think that we wanted her to see that we knew that she hadn't. >> there she was on full

display, a former socialite chauffeured limos was now a county sheriff's car. gary's youngest child elliott was just seven months old when her father was killed. by now, she was beginning to understand more about how her father died, and who might have done it, and why. when you heard that pam was accused of having your father murdered for 2 million dollar insurance policy, what did you think? >> i don't know what it is like to live the kind of life that she was living, but i know what it is like to grow up without having my dad around, my biological dad. >> pamela and phillips, this is your rain, those are your charges. >> pam phillips pleaded not guilty to murder and charges to commit murder -- assigned to prosecute the case. >> she married gary for his money, we believe, she divorced

him for the same reason, he was bancroft at the time. -- >> you say she was killed over his money -- >> the scent right. >> the fence that -- human calculator right? >> calculator is an apt description, she was cold and calculated. she used man for her benefit. and, ultimately, she used gary for her benefit. >> it would take years before prosecutors would actually get to try the case, as they meandered through the legal system, motion after motion. for a time, pam was ruled mentally incompetent to stand trial. she told one doctor somebody had been watching and listening to her for years, and she believed she had tracking devices placed in her passport, and her head. but why late 2012, the judge said she was fit to proceed. >> i think that the police got tunnel vision with regard to this investigation.

>> the woman who had lived the good life, now had a court appointed attorney, her name is alicia -- >> been described as a narcissist, gold digger, and ultimately ruthless, cold blooded, murder. you are shaking your head. >> no. >> how would you describe her? >> i would describe as a mother of two, who worked hard, who made her life for herself. >> did -- >> no, absolutely not. he was the father of her children. she did want him to be involved in her children's life. >> it's not crazy the police is -- they had this contentious relationship, got some serious money out of that insurance settlement. pam later was found to be associated with a guy who police believed was actually responsible for planting the bomb. >> there is absolutely no physical evidence linking ronald young to that murder, or

to that bomb. nothing whatsoever. >> and yet, he was convicted. >> exactly. and it is a statement of how powerful an accusation can be. people now have to prove their innocence. people are presumed guilty because the press puts it out there. >> so this is our fault? >> well, partly, partly yes. people are now presumed guilty. that is the hurdle that offense has to try and overcome. >> and so, alicia and her team said about overcoming that hurdle, preparing a vigorous defense for kim phillips, as their client ready to face a jury more than 17 years after the murder. coming up -- dni? >> and it wasn't painful abstaining? >> it was not. the only thing they had was the tapes, and that was it. >> when dateline continues. hen dateline continues to see the signs of hope all around you? what if you could let in the lyte?

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the latest. record temperatures are expected across the country

today, with dangerous -- to the carolinas. texas already saw triple digit temperatures this weekend. and more than 450 rallies against gun violence swept america over the weekend, the protest followed last month shootings in uvalde, and of buffalo. many were organized by march for our lives, the group created by survivors of the 2018 parkland, florida, school mask. or now, back to dateline. >> february 2014, more than 17 years have passed since gary triano a shocking death by car bomb outside a tucson country club. his ex wife pam phillips was now on trial, charged with his murder. and right from the start, pam's defense team insisted that police rushed to judgment. >> it is a lot easier to go after the ex-wife then -- it is easy. that is the low hanging fruit. >> in his opening statement,

attorney -- defended not just pam, but her latched coconspirator as well. >> the evidence you're going to hear is going to convince you not only that my client is innocent, but that ron young is innocent. >> the defense insisted there was nothing placing ron young or pam phillips in tucson on the day of the murder. >> if you are going to do a bombing, you have to come in and to the bombing. they have no evidence whatsoever -- >> and says comes attorney alicia there was no proof ron even knew how to build a bomb. >> there is no evidence he had the ability, no evidence he had the knowledge, nothing in his van or any of the stuff that was found on his computer. it is not like he had a workshop in his garage and tinkered on the weekends, and he had a slight tremor in his hands. he did not have the ability to do this. not at all. >> and this defense expert analyzed some trace dna found on the bomb parts. >> my conclusion is that ron

young's markers or not president. >> it was not run young stand? >> it was not. >> and it was not pam phillips dna? >> it was not. that is correct. >> but there is all the evidence police discovered in his abandon van a month before the murder. maps of tucson, paperwork related to pam and here is divorce, a notepad with names of some of gary's friends and family, and a receipt showing ron spent 18 mysterious days in tucson the summer before the murder under a fake name. what was all that about? >> he was looking to help them get more child support by investigating the hidden assets of gary triano. that is why he was here. >> there was a notebook containing a few names of people associated with gary. >> you know why, because he was thinking carrie might have put his vehicle on his knees's name, gary maya's vehicle and his girlfriend's name. >> but why is an assumed name during his visit? >> he was already on the run from the police in aspen,

colorado. he was hiding at that point. >> and as for the theory that pam killed garrett for the $2 million in life insurance, nonsense, says her attorney. >> pam had wanted to let go of the insurance policy about a year prior. >> a friend of hams testified that you took overpayments on the policy because pam was short on money. a judge would not allow us to show the friends face. >> it was about $600 a month, and she felt that that was one piece that she could get rid of, and stop doing. and, i said, absolutely not. if you cannot pay for, it i will. but you need to have the security for the kids. >> and, the friend told the jury, she actually forgot to make the last two payments on the insurance policy before gary was killed. >> which you think are significant, why? >> because she testified at trial, that pam never asked her again about the insurance policy. it never came up in any conversations with her. she just let it go.

>> so if pam was killing gary for the insurance, she would have said something to your fan like, you made the last payments, right? >> exactly. >> but then how to explain those last recorded phone calls between pam and ron, the discussion of payments? >> i'm really happy that -- >> the threats. >> there's just, plenty of stuff, that, i could literally dig out of the ground. >> and talk of prison time? >> when you sit in a woman's prison for murdering -- when you sit in a woman's prison for murder -- >> the defense argued ron was extorting pam with threats of ruining her reputation in aspen. >> i mean, i'm living in fear. >> -- embarrassment to you. >> living in total fear. >> i think he was trying to threaten her by saying, look, you see all these things that are in the press right now with regard to you being a suspect in this murder, i'm going to make sure that it goes to the front pages of the aspen times.

>> so he's blackmailing, her even though she'd into anything wrong? >> she did not do anything wrong. she was concerned about her reputation, because reputation is everything in the business that she did. >> okay, let's follow that out, even though she hadn't committed any crime, even though she didn't tie wrong young or anyone else to kill her husband, she couldn't go to the police when she got extorted? >> do you know how many people don't go to the police when they are extorted. >> somebody frenzy for a murder i had nothing to do with, it read -- the police is the first phone call i'm making. >> there are many, many people who get extorted, blackmailed, and they basically just want to make the problem go away. >> and so rather than go to the police, ham continued making payments to ron young. >> the only thing they had were those tapes, and that was it. those were the words of a person trying to get money from another person. that is it. >> that is not a criminal conspiracy in the wake of him having hired run to kill gary? >> that was after the fact. after the murder.

not before. they do not have a single thing, a single shred of evidence of conspiracy before the fact. >> but if pam and ron did not conspire to kill gary triano, did not carried out, well then, who did? you are about to hear one wild story of a man police never checked out. a man who had the means, the motive, and apparently the desire to kill gary triano. coming up -- >> he was cooked out of his mind, he was about as evil as they come. >> could he be the real killer? >> he was so obsessed with gary, he immediately started declaring he would kill him. >> wait, you heard him say? that >> oh yeah, many, times many many times. >> when dateline continues. teline continues flings for the first time the other day and forgot where she was. you can always spot a first time gain flings user. >> on the eighth floor of the

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-- county courthouse, pam phillips attorneys were -- her case. prosecutors, they, said had it all wrong. not only was pam not guilty, but there was real evidence someone else committed this crime. and, the man the defense pointed out has a name you might recall. a lead that came up early in the murder investigation, one that was never pursued. neil mckinney's. >> well, he was coke out of his mind, and he was about as evil as they come. >> this is lawrence patrick antonio, the doctor of osteopathic medicine. he sat down with us to share the extraordinary tale he told the jury about neil mckinney's. a man, d'antonio says, suffered from a couple of abnormalities. >> one was a drug addiction, the other one was exceeding wealth. >> the doctor says he first met him around 1989, and says neil's mother paid him to block off his schedule and look after

her son, who was at the time, addicted to heroin and cocaine. >> he had a very sweet types humble personality when he wasn't on drugs, -- >> but then when he would use -- >> hundred 80-degree, change very paranoid, blamed all his problems on select people, and then went after them with conventions. >> and there was his storage locker full of weapons. >> it was all military weapons, it was all m16s, militarized shotguns, and you could see hand grenades laying on the ground. >> and his use of dynamite for sport. >> and he throws dynamite on firecrackers -- >> and then there was a company he kept. the doctor says in the early 90s, neil was hanging around with anti government militia types in montana, and then right after the oklahoma city bombing in 1995, neil's girlfriend showed up at -- house. >> and she swore up and down that he felt he was involved in

those, financially. >> so at this point in time -- >> neil's girlfriend told you that she thought neil had bankrolled the oklahoma city bombing? >> yes. >> the doctor even called an fbi hotline to report neil, there's no indication the bureau found any link between neil and the bombing. but the fbi did eventually contact -- when they were investigating mick niece for something else. mckinney's found himself a defendant in a federal wiretapping case, accused of extorting money from a man who had been his friend. -- ultimately pleaded guilty to receiving the proceeds of extortion, and was sentenced to two years probation. why was any of this relevant in the murder trial of pam phillips, because, as doctor -- his frightening acquaintance -- had a history of bad blood, with none other than gary triano. it started, the doctors, that

after -- and gary triano agreed to purchase an item together at a charity auction. >> gary did not have the money to pay, so neil paid, and he was supposed to pay neil 50% later. at first he did not pay him. >> then, some years later, around 1991, gary tried to get neil to go into business with a high flying real estate mogul. and, their meetings were held not in a boardroom, but in a series of limousine. >> because they could keep neil captive audience in the limousine. >> -- says -- wanted a finder's fee for the arrangement, but in the meantime -- >> carrie had to pay for all the wine and dining, it was very costly. >> and they're in the limousine, -- says gary asked neal for a loan. using pam phillips wedding ring as collateral. >> and this was a magnificent ring, it had two appraisals, that i remember, one about 235, 000, the other close to

250,000. he wanted an 80,000 dollar cash loan. >> the doctor says neil agreed, but -- >> he ended up with -- worth about $70,000. >> gary switched the rain on him -- >> at some point, that is one nil lost it toward scary. he went berserk, and he was so obsessed with gary, he immediately started declaring he was going to kill him, years later. >> wait, wait, where you heard him say that? >> many. times many many times. hundreds, to maybe thousands of times. he is obsessed with gary triano, obsessed with him. >> that was the case that offense made to the jury. they argued neil had the means and the motive, and the stated desire to kill gary. >> any evidence that investigators never looked at this guy as a possible suspect? >> no. no. they ignored this whole line of

investigation completely, completely. >> the defense even connected -- to a potential bomb maker, his close friend jerry who happened to be a master woodworker and handyman. >> one of juries hobbies was he was a avid radio control airplane operator, and he would build planes from scratch. >> he would do it during the same types of components found in the bomb that killed gary troiano. before the trial, the defense inspected -- former would shop. >> the new owner allowed us to go into the shop, and we found items in that shop that everything there was could have been used to build the bomb. cut pipe, wires, sir beau units for the model planes, this is something they could have found in 1997. >> there's just one problem with this defensive theory, it is pretty hard to check out. >> where is mr. -- now? >> he died.

>> and neil is dead? >> right. so these guys are a third party defends for you guys? they can't stand up and call you a liar? >> but the evidence is, what it is. the evidence is there. >> and the defense argued, doctor -- was not the only person to mention neil, as a potential suspect in the case. >> gregory -- >> this friend of gary told detective -- about nil -- not long about the murder. >> but did you tell them about a person by the name of neil? >> yes. >> did they ask you about -- and -- ? >> a friend of mine, just something he had said. >> so why didn't the detective at least talked with neil? >> because it's just one of those things that fall through the cracks, or because you guys were so focused on pam phillips? >> that is what the defense would have you believe, that we were focused on pam phillips, i would say there were 8 to 10,

what i felt were viable leads in addition to pam phillips? >> and neil was not one of them? >> no. >> in hindsight, you wish you had dragged him through and asked some questions? >> of course. >> if you had done, that would you think you would have found? >> based on the evidence that i have seen, both from our investigation and the defense investigation as we would have cleared him some way, we would not have -- any level where he would have been a suspect. >> there was nothing to the -- story said investigators and prosecutors. the true killer, they say, was the person sitting in that courtroom. and if there were any doubts, the prosecution had a star witness. who was about to share the secret she had kept for nearly two decades. coming up -- >> i just did not feel safe. >> a former friend, turns powerful -- >> she started talking about how easy it would be to just hire a hitman, and have him taken out because he had such a

predictable schedule and played golf every day. >> you sure you remember that conversation accurately? >> absolutely. >> when dateline continues. when dateline continues so i said, "yeah you're saving hundreds with the home and auto bundle from progressive, but there's no saving that casserole!" [ both laugh ] i just love that word "bundle." it's so fun. two things coming together like a force of nature, like it was really meant to be, y'know? yes, yes, i do. and i'm so glad you wanna save money. rodney, set up a bundle for jon hamm. mm! of course! jon, is it still cool if i catch a ride home with you? i never said it was. but technically you didn't say it wasn't. it's not. yet. it's not. you said you'd never get a dog. you said you'd never do a lot of things. but you never knew all the things a dog could do for you.

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decades to bring pam phillips to trial, and according to prosecutors, there was no doubt she was guilty of murder. >> if there's one reason that gary triano was murdered, one reason, he was murdered because his death benefited pamela phillips in a big, big way. >> and while there was no physical evidence tying pam phillips or ron young to the car bomb that killed gary triano, and nothing placing either one of them in tucson at the time of the murder, prosecutors urged the jury to listen carefully to those phone

calls between ron and pam that were reported after the murder. there is talk of an agreement. >> i'm not going to keep sending you more and more and more money, unless i know that you can honor our agreement. >> and doing something for pam, no one else would do. >> you know, and i also hope to on something that was, you know, beyond what anybody else in the world would probably do. >> neither pam, nor ron explicitly says those payments were for a murder. >> the defense argument was that he was extorting her. >> right. was it that ron young could have on her, that she had to pay him $400, 000, if it wasn't the murder. >> and if those tapes did not persuade the jury, prosecutors had one more star witness. a woman who is about to share

publicly a secret she had kept for a very long time. >> pam's husband gary and the gentleman i dated played golf together. >> her name is laura chapman, and she first met pam back in the late 80s. >> she was very sweet, very nice. >> the two became good friends, and laura had a front row seat at pam and gary's upscale lifestyle. >> they had a dining room table that actually came out of the floor, which i thought was a bit over the top, but it was interesting. >> it was a lifestyle that, laura, says pam was not pleased to part with one gary's finances started to crumble. >> to pam, that was more significant then thinking to yourself, well, he's a wonderful guy, i love him, he is the father of my children -- >> i have to wonder, if she really truly ever did love, him or if it was just the lifestyle that they had she was in love with. >> and when pam and harry separated, pam told laura about the problems they were having.

>> she started talking about how easy it would be to hire somebody, that she should just hire a hitman and have him taken out. how easy it would be, because he had such a predictable schedule that he played golf every day. and then, she started talking about their insurance policy, the life insurance policy, and of course you know, at the time, you think it is just somebody who is venting, angry -- >> you don't think she is actually plotting the murder of her husband? >> of course not. >> you thought this -- was >> yeah. >> and so laura brushed the conversation aside. this of course was three years before gary triano murder. pam and laura stayed friends, even after she moved to aspen. then, november 1st 1996, laura heard the news about the car bombing at -- >> i remember once i heard who it was, that it was gary, i remember saying to my husband, oh my gosh, she really did it. >> but laura chose not to go to

the authorities. >> his body parts were blown all over sunrise drive. it was -- and knowing that somebody could do that, and take it farther away from five children, i just didn't feel safe. >> and so, for years, laura kept that secret, until one evening and 2011 while dining at a local restaurant, she saw gary's daughter heather. something told her, it was time. >> i said, heather, i think there is something that i need to tell you. i told her what pam had shared with me that night at her house. >> and the very next day, laura shared her story with detective keith st. john. >> what made you decide to come? forward >> seeing heather, and knowing how much she loved her father. knowing that what i knew could possibly help them convict the person who was responsible for

his murder. >> on the stand, the defense attacked laura, saying she was not remembering things clearly, because of a brain tumor she had been diagnosed with back in 2005, which laura says, is nonsense. >> you sure you remember that conversation with him accurately? >> absolutely. >> your health problems? the prime tumor you survived in any way impacted your memory of things like that? >> absolutely not. >> how important a witness was laura? >> i think she was very important. she was critical. this was phillips saying that i could hire somebody to take him out, i have insurance on him, his golf game is pretty predictable, i can do it. and that is exactly what happened. >> of course, gary's niece melissa had never wavered from her belief that pam was guilty. >> she is the only person that could gain anything from his death, monetarily.

>> as the trial headed to its close, -- and his co-counsel -- felt confident, but one never knows which way a jury will go. >> we both firmly believed that we had the right person on trial, we both firmly believed the evidence showed she was guilty, and the question was, given the circumstantial nature of the case, did we produce enough? >> coming up -- >> ladies and gentlemen, you are excused -- >> do you feel confident, those the jury -- >> long enough to never be confident about anything. >> a 17 year investigation comes down to a single moment. >> it is overwhelming. >> my heart breaks. my heart breaks. >> the verdict, when dateline continues. in continues.

>> april 2nd to 2014, it had

been 17 years, five months, and one day since gary triano and the life he lived had parted company. now each side had one last chance. the defense insisted that investigators had blinders on when they went after pam phillips, carelessly ignoring other possible leaves like neil -- who had openly wished gary triano dead. >> there is plenty of proof that we have summoned that there is a reasonable doubt. the state went after the easy -- the woman who got a 2 million dollar insurance policy, and the guy that was extorting her. >> but, said the prosecutor, the idea that any one else was responsible for this murder, other than pam and her coconspirator ron young was just pure fantasy. >> it makes for a good story that neil --

did -- must have been him. it makes for a good story that he has a friend who does model airplanes and has -- that are similar to those used in -- it is time for pamela phillips to be responsible for her crimes. it is time to find pamela phillips guilty. >> ladies and gentlemen, you are excused to delivery. >> and so, the jury retired, and everyone else waited. >> do you feel confident? as the jury went all? >> i've been -- long enough to never be confident about anything. >> after two and a half days of deliberations, the jury had a verdict. and the story that had been the talk of tucson for so many years, entered its final chapter. >> -- pamela and phillips guilty -- >> pam phillips, guilty of first degree murder and -- conspiracy to commit murder,

for the now retired sheriff's detective james gamber, it was finally over. >> it was the end of a long road for you guys? >> yes. i went for my second homicide, to my last homicide. >> but when word spread among gary's friends and family, there were few if any cheers. >> it was overwhelming. it was surreal. this is a sad, sad story. in every pect of it. >> the day that she was convicted was very bittersweet day. >> why bittersweet? >> i am a mom, and i was extremely saddened for all the children that were involved. >> because for his kids with pam, their mom has just been convicted of killing their dad? >> and i can't imagine. my heart breaks. my heart breaks. >> the next month, pam was back in court, with her jail issued

jumpsuit and gray hair, looking nothing like the money socialite she had wanted to remain. no longer was she the stepmother -- gary's oldest kids had grown to love, a woman who had been their friend. they each made an emotional statement. >> my father's death was sudden, and violent. his life was taken as the result of greed, hate, and malice. >> heather spoke about the woman she had once defended. >> t think i had actually stood up for this woman, and suggested she might have been involved in the murder, i told her to keep her head held high because she had nothing to do with this murder theft. boy was i wrong. >> and then, pam phillips had the floor. she turned towards the gallery, and spoke out for the first time. >> i just want everybody to know that i am innocent, i am innocent, i am innocent. okay. and i'm truly sorry, so sorry

-- this is a nightmare. this is a nightmare. and, gary was my husband, okay, gary was my husband and he was the father of my children. i am innocent, and i want everybody to know that. this is a travesty, this is a nightmare for me. okay? and i don't understand how this can even happen, right, but i want you all to know that. i am innocent. thank you. >> the judge issued his sentence, the woman who once lived the jet-setting will highlight, would now spend the rest of her natural life in a prison cell. >> is it fair to say that if -- biden kept such careful records that nobody knew where he pam would -- >> i think there's a good chance of that. >> if it sounds like a victory, the triana family would assure

you it isn't. >> my uncle is not coming back. no conviction, or life sentence is going to change that. all it did was, you know, making murder murderer out of m cousin's mother. nothing else has changed. nothing else has changed this sunday, the january 6th hearings. >> president trump summoned the mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack. >> the evidence? >> we present president trump's plan. the most desperate chance to halt the transfer of power. >> the sophisticated seven-part plan to overturn the