for joe biden. alayna treene of axios, thank you, as always. we'll have complete coverage of the hearings, day two, today on msnbc. thanks to all of you for getting up way too early with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. it's important the american people understand what truly happened and to understand that the same forces that led january 6th remain and work today. it's about our democracy itself. we have to protect our democracy. i know it sounds corny to say it. we're all raised in school, democracy every generation has to protect it. i have to admit to you, i never thought that it was going to be this straightforward a challenge before. the rule of law matters in democracies. we're seeing how the battle for the soul of america has been far from won. i know together, and i mean this, we can unite and defend

this nation, democrat and republican. allow no one to place a dagger at the throat of our democracy. >> president biden last week addressing thursday's primetime hearing of the january 6th committee investigating the attack on the capitol. and we're hours away from the committee's second public hearing. at 10:00 a.m. eastern, the house panel will lay out how the big lie got started. also ahead, a compromise on capitol hill. senators from both sides of the aisle agree to what could be the most significant gun safety legislation in decades. we'll tell you what's in the deal and how soon it could get to the president's desk. one of the leading negotiators, senator chris murphy, will join us live right here on "morning joe." we're also keeping an eye on wall street, as the markets are tanking ahead of the opening bell. looks like a bad day ahead. >> good day to go to the track.

>> we'll get some insight on what is fueling this latest sell-off. plus, the average price of gas hits $5 a gallon, and it's not over. we could be weeks away from the peak of this. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, june 13th. with us, we have white house bureau chief at "politico" and host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. and msnbc contributor mike barnicle joins us early this morning. >> this would be a great day to talk a little baseball. mike barnicle, man, red sox just keep winning, and those yankees keep on winning. everybody in the american league east keep on winning, don't they? >> yankees keep crushing every opponent they face. >> yeah. >> they scored eight runs, like, in 6 seconds yesterday in the first inning against the poor chicago cubs. the red sox, of course, you know, a struggling team who finally found strength. big comeback.

they're rolling with devers. there he is right there. >> look at that. he just flicks his wrist. >> unbelievable. >> it was a bad pitch, outside. a bad pitch. devers takes it. man, two outs in the eighth inning, mike. this is one that got away from the mariners. then had an incredible play in the field, incredible catch in the outfield, as well, mike. that kid is something. >> right there. >> watch this catch. oh. >> whoa. >> good way to save it. jonathan lemire, here's the great news, i mean, we're the little engine that could. there's no doubt, we're struggling. we just win a game, you know, lose a game. we're kind of making our way through. >> yeah. >> the great news is, lemire, that the yankees are winning as much as they are, because that means we get to play them in the

playoffs, right? i mean, look at that, i hope the yankees keep winning because, for people that don't know, they're just a team that don't know how to beat the lowly red sox in the playoffs. >> first to note, the red sox went 8-2 on the west coast which seems impossible. >> never happens. >> a sign of perhaps the end times there. >> yeah. >> despite that, the sox have gone 22-10, joe, in the last 32 games. yet, they've lost two games in the standings to the yankees over that point. >> yeah. >> yankees will not lose. matt carpenter, whose career was over a few years ago, comes to the bronx, grows a mustache and turns into lou gehrig. six home runs in a matter of days. but you are right, despite the fact the yankees and their $500 million payroll appear to be running away with the american league east, we have beaten them three straight times in october. maybe we'll get another shot. >> gets a little boring. no, he doesn't look like lou gehrig. he looks like a character out

of -- >> exactly. >> whatever gets the yankees to the playoffs so we can actually beat them. mike, we were going through a series of stories we're going to talk about. the gun deal. we'll talk about a lot of different things. but i always would remember my dad back in the late '70s, coming home and, man, you know, gas used to be 33 cents a gallon. just like that, it was $1 a gallon. that really hit his bottom line budget. you look at the $5 prices. you look at the fact that china is just now reopening from covid. those $5 prices, i'm afraid, are going to just keep going up. because the war keeps getting worse. and when china opens up and there is this massive demand on the economy, gas prices, i wouldn't be surprised if they go up to $6 a gallon. >> joe, i'm going to tell you one thing, that headline, "u.s. gas prices hit a new high: $5 a gallon," you show me a station where gas is selling for $5 a

gallon, and i'm going to race there. the average to the motorists at least on the east coast is more than $5. $5.19 a higher. already soaring to its $6 a gallon. that's a crusher for anyone running for office as a democrat right now. >> it really is. >> a crusher. there's a lot of factors. i mean, you look at the stock market, the demand for housing and all the different ways the economy is being squeezed, inflation, supply chain issues, there's going to be a question as to whether or not interest rates will be raised, which will make it harder for people. >> interest rates have to be raised far more aggressively. >> it'll get worse before it gets better. >> inflation over 8% now. interest rates are going to have to go up significantly. >> we're going to get to that, a lot of that in a moment. also, what we can expect from the committee hearing in a

moment, including the ratings from the first night of hearings. >> did well. >> one major network didn't even carry it, and it got pretty high ratings. >> huge ratings. first, a bipartisan group of senators say it has reached a deal on the framework for a new set of gun violence prevention laws. after weeks of negotiations, ten republicans, ten democrats, announced the breakthrough yesterday, writing in part this. families are scared, and it is our duty to come together and get something done that will help restore their sense of safety and security in their communities. while sources say the final bill has not yet been written, the agreed upon proposal would include significant funding for states to implement red flag laws. more rigorous background checks for gun buyers under the age of 21. the proposal, however, does not include a total ban on assault weapons, and it does not raise the minimum age to buy an

assault weapon. president biden is praising the new gun bill framework. in a statement released by the white house yesterday, the president writes, in part, obviously, it does not do everything i think is needed, but reflects important steps in the right direction and would be the most significant gun safety legislation to pass congress in decades. each day that passes, more children are killed in this country. the sooner it comes to my desk, the sooner i can sign it, the sooner we can use these measures to save lives. >> and it is progress. slow progress but progress. i'm sure you know, abraham lincoln was often criticized for moving too slowly toward ending slavery. abolitionists like frederick douglass noted the view from the abolition ground, mr. lincoln seemed tardy, cold, dull, and indifferent. but lincoln was an

incrementalist because his enemies were absolutists in their support of slavery. so today, take a deep breath. those seeking meaningful public safety reform find themselves surrounded by gun manufacturers and their allies who are trying to block laws that americans support and laws that could slow down and eventually stop mass killings in our schools. passing universal background checks, raising the age of buying assault weapons from 18 to 21 and enacting red flag laws in all 50 states are wildly popular measures that promote public safety. those sound incremental and didn't make it into the framework. but a deal was struck, progress was made. just ask parents of children killed at sandy hook whether that is better than what happened following their tragedy ten years ago. yes, progress is small, but it

is progress. lincoln once said of his often criticized march toward emancipation, and it being too slow, i am a slow walker, but i never walk back. may we all keep walking forward together toward a day when our children can again go to school without the fear of weapons of war and mass shootings. >> amen. joining us now, nbc news correspondent josh lederman. josh was covering this all day yesterday as it went down. josh, what more can you tell us? >> reporter: well, mika, the big success tomorrow, the breakthrough perhaps, if you will, was the fact that there were ten republicans who signed onto this framework agreement that the senators have reached. meaning, assuming that that level of support carries forward, you have filibuster-proof support for this legislation and an actual chance of something becoming law, which you contrast that with the much more sweeping

package that the house passed just last week that would have gone much farther but, of course, was politically dead on arrival in the senate. but this is just a framework, as you pointed out in the intro. there is no legislation written yet. today, senators and their aides will start the very difficult task of turning this framework into an actual bill that lawmakers can look at, everybody can decide whether they support it. frankly, outside groups can start to lobby for it and against it, and that is where getting more political support for this could be really difficult. it's also why senators who are involved in this want to proceed so quickly. they know that, you know, this was a procedural success, but this bill is not yet over the finish line. with the elections coming just around the corner, the time to actually put this into law could be short. i spoke last night with senator chris coons, one of the democrats who signed onto this agreement, and here's what he

told me about the timeline that he foresees for turning this into a law. >> we still face some potential hurdles. my hope is that we can get a vote on this in the senate within the next two weeks. that we can get it to the president's desk before the end of july. that's a tight timeline for the u.s. senate but, frankly, the urgency of now, the urgency of acting while there is still a national focus, a national pressure to act, is what i think gives all of us optimism, that this time may be different. >> mika, it was just a few weeks ago that congressman chris jacobs of new york, the same region where the buffalo shooting took place, came out in support of modest gun restrictions. within a week, was literally chased out of congress, said he is going to resign because, as a republican, it had become politically impossible, essentially, for him to win re-election. this is the opposite of what democrats hope is the message

that will be sent by this legislation. yes, it is incremental according to chris coons, but democrats and gun control advocates are hoping that even a modest step that enjoys republican support, perhaps north of that ten that signed on perhaps, they get closer to 70, as a lot of democrats would like to, they hope that creates a precedent. republicans see more political space for them in the future to endorse even more far-reaching gun restrictions without the fear of the kind of repercussion that just shooed a republican member out of congress. they hope it'll lay the groundwork for much more ambitious gun measures to reduce violence in the future. >> good explainer. josh lederman, thank you very much. jonathan lemire, what are you hearing at the white house? >> the president's statement is clear. this is not everything they wanted. they were hoping for a far more overreaching measure here on guns, that they were certainly hoping to raise the age on

assault weapons to purchase from 18 to 21. that's not happening. but they'll take it. the sense is, as you said, joe, and as josh just reported, that it's progress. even incremental, that's better than nothing. that was the sense from white house aides i talked to last night. there is a hope, and we've heard this from some republicans, too, to get that number up beyond the 60 votes, closer to 65 and 70. not politically to give republicans more cover, but to, indeed, show them this could be something that you can put your name toward and you may not suffer electoral consequences. we know how well these measures poll. we've been talking about them since the wake of the buffalo and uvalde shootings. 70%, 80% of americans believe in the steps. frankly, most of them want to go a lot further than this deal the senate has reached. so aides i talked to last night, senior white house officials, yes, there is a little bit of disappointment they couldn't do more, but they're pleased. they are glad this is a step in the right direction. they do think it could open the door to further steps.

but the fear, as one aide put it to me, when the next steps come, will it be in the wake of another gun tragedy? they hope not, but that, sadly, is the political reality we may be facing. >> mike, let's talk about the incremental progress here. it is incremental, at the same time, it is fairly dramatic at the same time. because you look at republicans, they dragged their feet after sandy hook, dragged their feet after el paso, dragged their feet after las vegas country music concert. they dragged their feet after mass killings in churches, in synagogues, in movie theaters, always drag their feet, always said no. i don't think they just showed up this time simply because they felt like it was the right thing to do. obviously, political winds are changing. maybe not dramatically but at least ten republicans have sensed a shift in the mood of the electorate. >> yeah, joe. you know, the success of this

committee, led by -- or this group of senators led by chris murphy is something to applaud. but the level of relief with the accomplishment that they came up with over the weekend has to be combined with a level of frustration that is just endemic in the united states senate. we just heard chris coons say that the urgency is now. the urgency is now is defined as getting this bill through the united states senate as written at the end of july. that's five weeks from now. so far, it's the 13th of june. there has been, by definition, a mass shooting every single day of june thus far, with the exception of only one day. so the united states senate haas done something, or are on the verge of doing something. the bill hasn't been written yet. if you have a wrong adjective or something, you may lose a republican senator. who knows? but the level of frustration

people have feeling has got to be incredible. the urgency of now, the end of july, please. stop it. >> we're going to have senator chris murphy on the show later on this morning. back to january 6th. as we said, the january 6th select committee will be holding its first public hearing. >> a lot of people watched the first one. >> a lot of people like to look at ratings as sort of a success meter. some people look at it that way. >> yeah. >> i don't know. >> it's a little silly. >> does it matter how many people watch? >> obsession over ratings. >> yeah. >> but it is interesting that everybody was saying that the democrats and republicans on the panel failed. >> they were boring. >> oh, these were terrible hearings. they've already failed. remember, we read op-eds before they had the first hearing and they were called failures. >> they were called really boring, like they couldn't keep a viewer. you know. >> by the critics that weren't

watching. >> exactly. because there was a network that didn't carry it. despite that -- like a major network, a powerful network. >> really powerful. >> but based on the ratings for the first hearing, there seems to be a lot of interest. >> a ton. mika, do you know that about 20 million people across america watched thursday's primetime hearing? >> what? >> that's, of course, according to the data. >> i thought one of the biggest networks didn't carry it. >> no, they didn't. as the "times" pointed out, the 20 million viewers is in the ballpark with events like sunday night football. >> oh, my god. >> i want you to compare those 20 million viewers with the biggest ratings donald trump garnered for his reality show. >> right. >> 2014 show of celebrity. >> the finale, the buildup. >> they had 7.6 million viewers. >> oh. >>"apprentice,"

the final season. >> big finale. >> only 4.6 million. >> wow, these hearings trumped that. >> i'm not really good at math, lemire, but it seems -- and if you look -- >> let me write it down. >> the last season of "apprentice," donald trump got 4.6 million. liz cheney got 20 million. >> let's add up both "apprentices." >> no, don't do that. >> no? >> the "celebrity apprentice," 7.6 million. which is good because, you know, after the "apprentice," only 4.6 million for the show he said was the greatest ever, that i had to get celebrities like gary busse and other people on to get people watching, right? trump wasn't -- you know, 4.6 in primetime. >> it was small. >> really small. but anyway, so look at these numbers again. it's pretty significant. like, you know, if trump said

the "apprentice" was one of the most popular shows of all time, that's great. >> 7.6. >> hold on, we're still looking at the numbers. "apprentice" final season, 4.6 million. >> my god. add those up and it wouldn't add up to the hearing. >> no. you could add up his final season average for "celebrity apprentice" and final season for "apprentice," and still wouldn't -- >> weird. >> yeah, looks like liz has him more than doubled there. >> yeah. we need steve rattner to break down the math here because we're struggling with it. but there is no question that the ratings for the first hearing last week dwarfed anything that celebrity developer donald trump got for his itinerary of the "apprentice" franchise. it laid to rest doubts to whether americans would pay attention. it is less than the state of the union but more than just about anything else on television at any other time this year.

that's a real deal. people were watching. there seems to be -- we had in "way too early" a focus group from our friend leigh ann caldwell who said people had opinions changed in the aftermath. it was so compelling, particularly the video. nba finals this year. >> guys, "american idol." >> yeah. world series. all far short of the combined viewership of the january 6th hearings, which, mind you, don't account for some of the online viewers. so this was a big deal. there's real momentum heading into today's second hearing. >> mike, you look at the comparisons. of course, there is no comparison with the "apprentice" or "celebrity apprentice." liz cheney just crushed trump as far as ratings go. >> i don't think she's boring. i'm watching her going -- >> she was the one, you kno -- i was going to say the gary busse. she was like the thatcher of it. >> yeah.

>> you know, these are puny numbers for a primetime broadcast show. let's look at the other numbers that alex put up. you know, and i'm serious here, everybody was saying this hearing was going to be just total garbage. but the final game of the world series, a pretty good one between the braves and the astros, 11.76 million viewers. to the committee getting 20 million. the 2022 nba finals, average of the first three games, about half at 11 million. 11.78 million. "american idol" for the past week, 6.5 million, a third of what the liz cheney hearing got. "survivor," 5.7 million. a little more than a fourth. so, again, for those people whining about how bad the hearing was and how boring it was, america disagrees. >> i think so. >> mike. >> you know, i don't think i'm alone when i say i was surprised

at that number that they achieved, 20 million viewes. this is the event that when you're watching it on television, it is not like the nba finals or even like a world series game, where you turn away and talk about a play, you get a coca-cola or something to watch the rest of the inning or the rest of the quarter. you're paying attention if you're watching this. that residual impact it has on people, i don't think you can measure it out. but it's out there. people who watched this did indeed pay attention to it. >> yeah, you know, flanagan wrote, i finally find a hearing as compelling as what my parents watched during watergate. extraordinarily compelling. for those people whining, saying they learned nothing new, completely false. >> um, didn't watch. >> completely false. you saw it time and time and time again, you saw people

inside the trump white house calling trump out, telling us what happened during the january 6th riots. >> what he was saying was b.s. >> exactly. for the people out there, the anti anti-trumpers who say, oh, they should have pro-trump people on there, that's all they had. they had pro -- people who were so pro trump that they dedicated their professional lives for working for donald trump, even though it was costing them, i think, reputationally. >> his kids. >> he'd done horrific things, and they stayed loyal to him. >> it was incredible to watch, and there's more to come. by the way, on the other side of a quick break, reporting on what to expect from today's january 6th hearing. in our third hour of "morning joe," we talk to a member of the committee, congressman pete aguilar. also ahead, senator murphy will join us on the framework of gun legislation. and the very latest from

ukraine, where russian forces are making gains in the eastern part of the country. what senior u.s. defense officials are saying about that. plus, president biden tours wildfire damage in new mexico and says the u.s. will fund recovery costs for a fire started by federal officials. we'll talk about that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> can you believe liz's ratings versus donald's? >> i believe in her. she's major. >> wow. there's a monster problem and our hero needs solutions. so she starts a miro to brainstorm. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. just then our hero has a breakthrough. "shoot it, camera, shoot a movie!" and so our humble team saves the day by working together.

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happy friday morning. hope you're doing well. hope friday morning is starting well. >> it is about 6:30. what a beautiful, beautiful view of capitol hill this morning. >> love the sky. >> right here, right now. one of my favorite songs from the early '90s.

no, mika, you sit there and go, what were some of joe's favorite songs from the early '90s? >> i hear it every morning. >> jesus, jones. i talked about liz cheney. we're having fun, right? >> well -- >> bennie thompson, obviously, the chairman of the committee. they're all doing great work. i just -- >> amazing work. >> i think the matchup as far as what the certain retiree in florida would fcus on the most. >> trump walked around with the numbers from "apprentice." as president, he'd pull the ratings out of his pocket of his speeches or his debates or whatever and talk about how the ratings matter. since ratings matter, it is important to take a look at who

was watching. >> the weird thing about it was, though, mike barnicle -- >> a lot of people. >> he always faxed the ratings around. >> like it was 1979. >> "apprentice." >> a fax. >> he'd go, i was number one this week. you'd say, wait a second, he is 47. i don't get how he's -- >> i know. >> you threw it away. >> "celebrity apprentice" guy. >> yeah. it's an obsession there. i say liz, bennie thompson's committee, it is america's committee. i'm sure it's america's committee. but 20 million people watching that -- >> that was not boring. >> think of all the garbage they had to hear from the anti anti-trumpers and all the people who were too -- you know, it proves one of the great hollywood quotes of all time that you told me 20 years ago. nobody knows nothing.

>> bill golden. >> yeah, bill golden was right. people are listening, and people are caring. >> interesting. >> all jokes aside, we should all, all americans who love democracy, all americans who love the rule of law, all americans who want justice for those police officers' families, all americans who want to protect the next election, they should be cheered. they should be happy. they can put the ka catastrophe aside. >> 20 million versus the "apprentice" numbers, i'm sure the "apprentice" numbers were rigged. >> yeah. >> i'm sure it was stolen from him. he's probably walking around mar-a-lago this morning talking about the real numbers involved with people who watch the "apprentice." we talked about it in the earlier segment.

those 20 million who watched, they'll retain what they saw. there is no way you cannot think and remember and visualize the first several minutes of that film clip where you had police officers and security guards, capitol police officers and washington, d.c. metro police officers, being attacked by the mob. >> horror movie. >> a mob described by a republican member of congress, more or less, as a group of torists. tourists. people retain the violence. it is a visual reminder of what the day was about, jonathan. >> the video was the centerpiece of the first hearing. a lot of the footage never before seen. >> beating up cops. >> police officers, lives in jeopardy. compounded with the testimony from that officer who, herself, suffered a traumatic brain injury. described in graphic detail tending to her wounded

colleagues, slipping in their pools of blood on the capitol steps. those are images that do stay with people. the committee, as aides put to me, smartly focusing on those in trump world. they feel those would be the most convincing testimonies, including a roster today which includes the campaign manager in 2020, bill stepien. so, mika, the drama here will continue to unfold, spread out over this week and next, as the committee continues to build its narrative and place the blame for one of the darkest days in american history squarely at the feet of donald trump. >> at 10:00 a.m. eastern, the january 6th select committee will gavel in the first of three hearings scheduled for this week. today's testimony will focus on the origin of the big lie and how former president trump weaponized false theories of election fraud. the committee will speak to five witnesses today and two panels. ben ginsberg, a lawyer.

schmidt was commissioner of philadelphia. bjpak resigned after refusing to claim voter fraud in georgia. those three will be grouped together. also taking part, chris starewalt, fired after the2020 election, he'll be joined with bill stepien, who is reportedly appearing under subpoena and is currently an adviser to the trump-endorsed primary challenger to the committee chair -- vice chair liz cheney. the sometimes reports the january 6th committee suggested in a letter sent to mr. stepien that it had evidence that he was aware that the trump campaign was raising money by making false claims about election fraud. today's hearing is expected to last about two hours but could

run a bit longer. congresswoman of california is expected to play a key role in this morning's proceedings. >> let's bring in now congressional investigations reporter for the "washington post," jackie alemany, and betsy woodruff swan. jackie, what do you expect to hear today? >> joe and mika, we'll hear about the origins and evolution of the big lie. you're going to see the committee trying to show, as they did in part in the first hearing, that trump knowingly spread the big lie. he was told time and time again his claims of election fraud were false, that his defeat was fair and square, but propagated the claims anyway. we'll see the split two ways. the fundraising and political apparatus that was built around the big lie to bring in record-raising cash haul in the aftermath of trump's electoral defeat. then the other side of this,

which was the way trump's claims sort of radicalized the insurrectionists and sort of spread this lie in order to galvanize and mobilize his supporters and to leverage that in order to stay in power. but i think bill stepien is certainly going to be an interesting matchup. he is also advising harriet hageman's campaign. that's liz cheney's primary challenger. and he can also speak to the fundraising aspect of this, which i think is going to be notable for the committee and ultimately for the doj in trying to prove a criminal case, which is that the trump campaign was knowingly raising money, defrauding the american people off of these false claims. there could be potential emails, various records intermingled with these testimony to prove that the trump campaign knew these claims were false but continued to do so anyway, along with the republican national committee and other official arms of the republican party. >> that's what is so critical

about donald trump's state of the mind, is actually the proof he knew he was lying all along. the proof we heard time and again that he knew he lost the election. despite that fact, they still spread that lie for the purposes of stealing money from the american people, from his supporters. betsy, mike pence has come into sharper relief since the hearings have begun. what is happening in pence's world? what is the reaction? what new do we know about them? >> over the last couple days, we've obtained and published two internal memos from mike pence's white house legal team that were produced just days before the january 6th attack. the select committee has copies of both memos, as well, but they haven't previously been seen publicly. the first one we got is gaited january 1st. it is literally a spreadsheet. it goes through all these allegations of voter fraud and

mismanagement. this memo was produced to prepare pence for january 6th. one box on this spreadsheet specifically lists about a dozen allegations that the trump campaign itself made in court, in georgia, with lots of specific claims about voter fraud. the memo specifically says those allegations were made on december 4th. this memo is dated january 1st. it also specifically says that within a month, almost 30 days later, mike pence's own white house legal team was unable to verify any of those allegations that the trump campaign made. the gist of the memo is lawyers who had access to everything they could have had, found nothing to show the outcome was changed from the election. the memo is the day before the

january 6th attack, also prepared by pence's legal team, to get him ready for a day they knew had the potential to be calamitous. in that memo, what it does is, it's the most authoritative takedown pence's team ever wrote of the crazy, wild, legal arguments that john eastman was making to try to get pence on board with their bizarre plan to overturn the election results. the subtext of this memo is not only was eastman's plan farfetched, not only was it illegal, not only was it unconstitutional, but my read is in the view of pence's top lawyer at the time, greg jacob, eastman's plan was also stupid. he specifically says this would not have worked. there weren't any republican legislatures at that moment that were ready to get fully on board with the crazy eastman-trump plan. it had no future. not only that, it would have pitted pence essentially against

the rest of the country. both chambers of congress as well as all these state legislatures. it's a short read, only three pages. it is written in simple language. it just lays out why pence didn't get on board with january 6th and takes you deep inside the thinking on his legal team. both of these memos give us a detailed, behind the scenes look of why pence did what he did. we believe they're historic documents. makes sense for people to read them as they're getting ready to watch the hearings this week. >> fascinating. jackie alemany, lay out the rest of the week for us, what the plans are, what the strategy is, and on parallel tracks, the feds are still making arrests. who is the audience they'll be appealing to? >> mika, on wednesday, we're going to hear from the committee yet again, and they're going to be making the presentation about how trump tried to use the department of justice in order to stay in power. we'll hear from trump's former acting attorney general, jeff rosen, steve angle, rich

donahue, people who worked under jeff rosen, and how they were really, you know, one of the final obstacles to the president to actually implementing some of these conspiracy theories that he was trying to get various players, people like jeffrey clark, a mid-level attorney in the department of justice, to take power and actually execute. on thursday, we're going to hear a lot of what betsy just described from mike pence's own team. that's greg jacobs, his counsel, mark short, and a handful of others potentially, who can speak to the pressure campaign that trump and his co-conspirators, john eastman, i think. we'll start to hear about some of the people who were working alongside trump later on this week in order to, again, actually do the implementation of these conspiracy theories that people were presenting to him. i think, you know, it's going to be extremely gripping but also

explanatory. i think that is a really important component this week. it is ultimately the technical mandate of the committee. i think we're going to see a lot of complex legal theories being put forth. it is the committee's job, ultimately, to make that accessible and easy to understand for the american public who, again, might have just been tuning in for the first time on thursday or maybe this week. >> all right. the "washington post"'s jackie alemany and politico's betsy woodruff swan, thank you both for your reporting. it is fascinating, you listen to the setup, what jackie is talking about, where they're going to try to prove state of mind. which i think they've already proven, trump knew this was a sham. everybody close to trump, everybody inside the white house has said all along, he knew he had lost. >> yeah. >> he'd been told time and time again he was going to lose and that he did lose. but think about, despite knowing that, think about the hundreds

of millions of dollars he's raised off of that big lie. >> my god. >> i mean, he's defrauded, i mean, how many of his own people? >> well, and i used to be -- i had to block it. it was too disturbing. used to be on the texts he'd send to his followers, yelling at them, "don't you believe us? we are losing. they're taking over." horrible things about biden and why trump won. they're using the lie to make money and get ready for the next election. that, by every estimate, should be frightening. >> well, it should be a crime is what it should be. >> it should be a crime. >> if you know you're lying and you're raising money off of a lie. >> so many things that should be crimes. >> my god, i'm sure the justice department is looking at that. >> we'll see. >> yeah. coming up, from record high gas prices to rising inflation, there is a lot to talk about with "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. he joins us next with those charts.

at the top of the hour, we'll be joined by senator chris murphy. he's the lead democrat involved in gun legislation negotiations. we'll also get the latest from ukraine as russian forces are surrounding a key city in the east. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ ♪ i'm the latest hashtag challenge. and everyone on social media is trying me. i'm trending so hard that “hashtag common sense” can't keep up. this is going to get tens and tens of views. ♪ ♪ ( car crashing ) ♪ ♪ but if you don't have the right auto insurance coverage, you could be left to pay for this... yourself. call a local agent or 1-888-allstate for a quote today. right now, we're all feelin' the squeeze. we're having to get creative. find a new way. but birthdays still happen.

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just about ten minutes before the top of the hour. beautiful shot of new york city on this monday morning. >> happy monday. >> yeah. gas prices hit a national average of $5 a gallon over the weekend, and here's the problem, it's not over. analysts say the costs could continue to climb. the peak is nowhere in sight. american households are spending about $160 more per month on fuel than they were a year ago.

that comes on the heels of friday's consumer price index showing inflation rose to 8.6%. we're talking about a four decade high. >> yeah. mom and dad, wake up the kids. he's here. he's got charts. >> we need him. >> he's pissed off. >> i'm sure he is. he's doing just fine. >> no, he's not. steve rattner, i look at the numbers. i'm sure i was like you, hoping against hope that the inflation would start to go down and ease a little bit. man, between the war, between china slowly starting to open up again, i mean, it only seems like demand is going to keep going higher, right? >> joe, we were all hoping the numbers would be better but they weren't. they were really disappointing. it's not just gasoline, although gasoline is a critical importance to americans and a sticker price you see every time you drive down the street, but it is unbelievably broad-based

inflation and, as you say, it's not getting better. in the friday numbers that came out, you can see how widespread it was. the red being energy, 28% of the inflation. shelter, housing, is 21%. food was 17%. two-thirds of the inflation came from things that americans have to have, necessities of life. on the right, i put some just random categories, just to show you what some of the individual price increases have been over the past year. gas up 50%. airfare up almost 40%. eggs up over 30%. things like window coverings, who thinks about window coverings, up 20%. >> tell me, so tell me, steve, why are eggs -- explain to our viewers why eggs would be going up that much, why window coverings would be going up that much. >> well, certainly, it's not like people are buying huge amounts more eggs. it comes more probably on the supply side in this case. in the case of eggs, you do have this issue of a flu going through the bird population that

may have had some impact. a lot is classic supply chain problems that manufacturers, agricultural growers, whatever, can't get enough of the supplies they need, so they supply less. consumers continue to demand just as much. prices just go up. coffee up 16%. tires up 16%. we're seeing large increases really across the board on all kinds of things. >> yeah. >> so -- >> no, no, i was just going to say, you look at these numbers. it all seems like it's bad. it's all going to keep going up. my god, over the last year, we have seen wages skyrocket. we've talked about it a good bit. yet, your next chart shows that no matter how much more money people are making, they're not feeling it at the end of the day because the price, inflation, is outpacing whatever gains they

may be making in their salaries. >> they're feeling worse at the end of the day, joe, as you indicated. we had during the occasion of the unemployment report a week which is good. wages continue to grow, as you say, in a nice 4%, 5% range. when you have 8.6% inflation, obviously, you lose something like 4% of your purchasing power. that's the little red line in the red circle you can see on the chart at the left. so we went from a period, a long period, where wages were exceeding inflation. that's the turquoise line. then you can see they've gone off a cliff. on the right, last friday, we also got the consumer sentiment report, the monthly consumer sentiment report. that's the red line circled there. hit its lowest level ever since the index was compiled in 1978. you have a lot of unhappy americans out there. we still have an incredibly low unemployment rate, 3.5%. 55% of americans think we're in a recession at the moment.

that's how bad they feel because of what's happening with inflation and their wages and gas prices and all of that. >> yeah. steve, i read one op-ed after another about how this is joe biden's inflation. this is joe biden's fault. it makes me tired. it would make me much more tired if i didn't know democrats would do the same thing to a republican president. everybody is going to blame whoever is in there. it seems to me that so much of this is outside the hands of a president, which leads to the next question. it seems to me the fed chair and the fed have the real power. how much should they jack up interest rates? if you have inflation at 8.5% and it can go even higher, at what point does the fed step in and start getting really aggressive? >> well, the fed is going to have a meeting this week, and they're going to make an announcement on wednesday. the market expects another half a percentage point in interest rates to go up. it is probable -- >> is that enough? >> excuse me?

>> is that enough? >> it's not even close. >> is that enough? >> no, it's not enough. it's not enough. you'll have to have interest rates go up substantially more, maybe 4%, 5%, 6%, who knows, in order to really deal with the inflation. interest rates, raising interest rates has consequences, as you can see on the chart that's up now. you can see how sharply interest rates have gone up since the beginning of this year really. i show you the ten-year treasury but also mortgage rates, which barnicle and i were talking about. up two full percentage points to up over 5%. another important thing for people to understand is the relationship between interest rates and the stock market. i drew a vertical black line on the two charts, the one on the left being interest rates and the one on the right being stock market, which hit its peak in january of this year. they both moved almost at the same moment. interest rates began to climb. the stock market rolled over, which is why the market went down so much on friday. by the way, we're going to have a really ugly day this morning on the stock market, at least at the open.

enough to bring the s&p index into bear market territory, dh which means a decline of 20%. so this is all not good. >> yup. you know, steve, i just have to say in passings, you and i spent our adult lives warning about rising deficits, rising debt. there have been many progressive economists saying we were chicken littles, you know, saying the sky is falling, the sky is falling. this is what we've been warning of. this is what happens. i was wondering why it was taking so long, but you flood the economy with too much money, with too much government debt, with too many, you know, government programs, too much deficit spending, this is exactly what happens. my god, i just wonder, what would have happened if progressives had gotten their $6 trillion wish earlier this year? >> yeah. ironic way, you almost have to thank joe manchin for blocking

that. $6.5 trillion of spending in this economy would make these numbers look small. yeah, look, we had a huge budget deficit. we had an unbelievably aggressive reaction by the fed to the pandemic. you can understand why they were trying, but they just tried too hard. now, we're all going to pay the consequences in a very, very tough environment over the next year or two while this gets sorted out. >> by the way, i wouldn't even say ironically thank joe manchin. you can just thank joe manchin if you're glad that interest rates aren't even higher. >> all right. steve rattner, thank you very much. we appreciate your coming on this morning. see you once again soon. still ahead, a 30-year logjam broken in the senate. senator chris murphy joins us at the top of the hour to discuss the bipartisan deal on a framework for new gun safety legislation. plus, how did donald trump's big lie fuel the rioters on

january 6th? did it? that's expected to be the focus of today's second public hearing before the select committee. a member of that panel, congressman pete aguilar, joins us before the start of today's session. we're back in two minutes. we're back in two minutes. only from discover.

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-so, what should i do with all of these coals? -don't just toss them out. put them in a metal container because those embers can start a wildfire. -i understand, the stakes are high. assistant smokey vo: ha-ha, ha-ha. -see, smokey think's im funny! i have said, and i'll say it again, while i'm interested in compromise, i'm not interested in just checking a box. i'm not interested in doing something unless that something is going to save lives. unless that something is going to be impactful and meaningful. my hope is that we'll be able to deliver good news to you, transformative news to you soon, because this country needs it. this country needs to know that washington is listening to them. if 80% and 90% of the american public agree on something, that democracy will deliver.

>> that was senator chris murphy on friday talking about the potential for a deal on gun legislation. yesterday, we heard of a big breakthrough in the talks. senator murphy is our guest in a moment. the other big story on capitol hill this morning is the second public hear from the january 6th committee. we'll go through today's witness list and what is the focus for lawmakers? also, in ukraine, it's a battle for every meter in the east. that's what the ukrainian president is saying about an important city with thousands of civilians trapped inside of it. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, june 13th. jonathan lemire and mike barnicle with still are us. as we said, senator chris murphy is standing by on the deal just reached that could lead to the biggest change in gun laws in nearly 30 years. first, let's get to details from nbc news correspondent josh

lederman. >> reporter: democrats and republicans doing what almost no one thought they could, reaching a deal on guns. it is a compromise, far short of what democrats wanted. like an assault weapons ban. still, president biden saying it'd be the most significant gun legislation to pass congress in decades. saying, the sooner it comes to my desk, the sooner i can sign it. this weekend, tens of thousands took to the streets across the u.s., demanding that congress act. >> i want to bring a measure to the floor for a vote as quickly as possible. >> reporter: it targets 18 to 21-year-old gun buyers, requiring them to wait for enhanced background checks, including a check with local police. it is a framework with details missing. ten republicans have signed on, enough to survive a filibuster and stand a real chance of becoming law.

even senate republican mitch mcconnell supporting the negotiations, though not necessarily the final product. >> i think that there is a little breakthrough here. >> reporter: a breakthrough congress failed to reach after previous mass shootings. this time, lawmakers reaching for more modest steps, agreeing to help states carry out red flag laws which let courts take guns away from people deemed a risk to themselves or others, and closing a loophole that's allowed some domestic abusers to buy guns despite their violent pasts. there is also money for school security and mental health, key republican asks. the most recent push on gun violence following major mass shootings in buffalo and uvalde, texas. >> frankly, what made the difference this time was how horrified millions of americans have been. >> senator chris murphy joins us now. when i look at the legislation, i'm reminded of quotes from the

19th century. one, politics is the art of the possible. second was abraham lincoln who said, i'm a slow walker but i never walk back. i guess this is a step forward, right? >> it is. there is a reason we haven't passed any gun legislation in 30 years. this is difficult. fact of the matter, we reached a compromise over the weekend that will save lives. i understand that the heart of the news is the breakthrough. you're right, this does allow us to break this log jam, and it allows us to be set up for future success. but the content of this compromise, in and of itself, will save lives. the ability to help states pass red flag laws will stop thousands of suicides and homicides. the closing of the boyfriend loophole means domestic abuse else, boyfriends that beat up their girlfriends, won't be able to buy guns.

protections for 21 and under buyers means there is a pause for any 18 to 21-year-old going to a store to try to guy bye an ar-15, like the uvalde shooter, and the chance for intervention. we're talking about billions of new dollars for mental health, a lot going to underserved communities. that'll save lives, too. this is a compromise, but it is a difference maker. it is a substantial compromise that is going to stop a lot of suicides, a lot of homicides, and save a lot of lives in this country. i'm really proud of it. i'm proud of my negotiating partners for coming to the table and getting this done. >> a couple of things to draw out there. first, let's talk about on the gun side of things. i would guess most americans think it makes sense to move the age from 18 to 21, at the very least, for selling of weapons of war. you didn't have the votes for

that, but tell me, what new safeguards are in place there specifically that will make a real difference? >> yeah. i think when we sort of count the votes in the senate, it was not clear that we had 60 votes to raise the age. obviously, something i support. but in many ways, what we built into the law is a pretty significant change. first, there's going to be a pause for any 18 to 21-year-old buyer, in order to conduct this more comprehensive background check. part of that comprehensive check is a call to the local police department. now, in the uvalde case, this individual probably didn't have a prohibition that would have stopped him from buying a weapon, but he had interactions with the police department. that alert to the local police department, that this very disturbed young man was going to the gun store days after his 18th birthday to buy two assault weapons would have set off a red flag. perhaps would have led to an intervention that could have stopped this murder. so that pause we've built in, i

really do believe will save lives. while it is not everything i want, it is much better than current law. again, it is going to, i think, stop many of these mass atrocities from happening. >> so the second thing, let's talk about health care, mental health care. it's something we've talked about a great deal on this show. specifically, increasing funding for mental health care in underserved areas. you know, if you're on the east coast, if you're on the west coast, if you're in metropolitan centers, chances are good you have more access to health care, mental health care. but you look at uvalde, you look at some of these other people that are falling through the cracks, this is where so many of these tragedies are occurring. what can you tell us about the funding mechanism for the mental health part of this compromise? >> well, there's -- we have not

announced any numbers, but suffice it to say, we're talking about billions of new dollars in mental health spending that will be part of this bill. our intention is to pay for it, and that's important to all of us but especially to many republicans. we're going to do three main things. first, we're going to build out a national system of community health centers. this is somebody debbie stabenow and senator row blunt have been working hard on. those will be focused on underserved areas. new community health centers all across the country. second, we'll invest in telehealth. that is important to rural communities. >> that's great. >> we'll make it easier for people who live in rural communities to be able to get access to mental health via the internet or the phone. lastly, we're going to invest in school-based mental health. we're going to put a lot of new money into building mental health clinics in our schools so more kids get served there. i haven't run the numbers based on comparisons to previous investments, but this will be one of the biggest non-budgetary

investments in mental health in the history of the country. >> senator, maybe getting into the weeds too much, but on mental health, i think that the thing that people will go to first is, you know, create places for people who are feeling sick responding to mental health problems when many might argue a mainstreaming of mental health services, training, social-emotional training, self-regulation training should go into classrooms as a form of prevention. >> well, you'll see as you read our outline that that's what we intend to do, is to build safe schools. >> great. >> building safe schools means creating teachers and administrators who can identify the warning signs of mental illness. now, let me be clear, i've always been uncomfortable sort of pairing these conversations, of gun violence and mental

health, because there is no evidence that people who are mentally ill are prone to violence. in fact, they're more likely to be the victims of violence. i don't want to do anything here that builds a stigma around people with mental illness. nor do i think investing in mental illness is the primary reason for the violence, but why would we balk in adding to the broken mental health system, while at the same time, we're making significant changes to the gun laws which we are doing in this bill. >> i couldn't agree more. i'm sure a lot of people out there couldn't agree more. we've been having debbie stabenow on this show for years now, talking about the need to increase mental health coverage. jonathan lemire, as you know, mika and i have been talking for some time, real concern about mental health in underserved communities, especially for younger americans. and, yes, so many people, you know, the governor of texas talking about mental health, but

he is cutting mental health, that's a copout. so if republicans will come to the table and they think they're hiding behind mental health while funding it, that's fine. because you move forward on gun safety, on public safety, and you move forward on helping those americans who need mental health counseling. >> to be sure, some of the gop focus on mental health felt like an excuse to not deal with guns. it's not to down play the importance of mental health, too. that is certainly a key part of this. senator, certainly, this is progress. we've heard from a number of people over the last day or so note that. this is a good step forward in the right direction if, perhaps, incremental. part of that is the fact that you have at least, so far, ten republicans signing on. what is your hope that that number, a, could grow immediately, but, b, down the road, that perhaps this could provide a sense to republicans that they can stand for some

sort of gun measure, maybe not pay the price at the ballot box, and lead to further, more substantial movement down in the future, perhaps not requiring another mass shooting to prompt it? >> so i think the theory is exactly right, and i've been saying this for years. i think there's been this mythology out there in america that you pay a political price, that you'll lose your primary, your election, if you step out and support these common sense gun measures supported by 90% of americans. now, we've never been able to test the theory because a substantial number of republicans have never supported anything close to what we'll put on the floor of the senate. i believe this is the moment where we show to republicans in the senate and the house that if they support these measures, that might not be supported by every single one of the second amendment groups out there, that they'll win votes, not lose votes. that it is a good thing to vote with 80% or 90% of your

constituents. that will allow us to build on this. what i know about every great social change movement in this country, and i think the anti-gun violence movement is in that category, is that they didn't get 80% of what they wanted in the first bill that passed congress. they built on success after success. they grew their coalition over time. that's what we're doing here. a 30-year logjam ending, not with a figure leaf, not with a box checking exercise, but a bill that has serious changes in it that will save lives and allow us to get more success down the line. >> senator, while joe might, the rest of us have very little understanding of the degree of difficulty and effort you put in in corralling as many legislators as you managed to corral to support this bill thus far. so we thank you for that. but on the improvements in this bill, an 18-year-old under this bill, as you've put it together

over this past weekend, an 18-year-old goes into a gun shop and tries to buy an ar-15, as happened in uvalde, texas. what happens to that 18-year-old's efforts to buy that gun immediately on the restrictions of this bill? >> so, listen, i think it will be different on a case-by-case basis. what we know under this bill, and we still have to work out the legislative text, but what we know is that under our agreement, that 18-year-old would not walk out of the gun store with an ar-15. they would have to be more comprehensively checked than the instant background check that takes five minutes. it'd include a call to the local police department, to check if there are juvenile records available or any leads on juvenile records that might disqualify this individual from buying a gun. now, query, whether someone who is planning a criminal act is going to go into a gun store and

buy a weapon if they know that that purchase is going to result in a call to the local police department. but that call also could provide for an intervention as i mentioned. so, listen, i'm not saying that this is foolproof or close to what i'd support. of course i'd support a ban on assault weapons or, at the least, a raising of the age. there is no doubt that this provision, you know, especially in uvalde, might have made the difference. i think that's the business we need to be in, is trying to pass laws that maybe are not perfect but substantially decrease the chance that these mass atrocities will ever happen in the future. listen, this is what can get 60 votes in the senate right now. other changes that lots of my constituents want can't. i just don't think this time the answer was for us to do nothing. i think my job was to try to find what is possible. john cornyn made clear where he couldn't go, right? he told me, i can't do anything that restricts the constitutional rights of gun owners. i can't go after law-abiding gun

owners. we honored those bright lines for john cornyn and came to this compromise, which i think is substantial. >> well, of course, universal background checks wouldn't do that and many other things wouldn't. that said, i'd underline one thing you've said, senator, and that is that there's just this -- there's this urban legend, i guess, around washington and state legislators that if republicans do anything on public safety, gun safety, they'll be penalized. after sandy hook, i talked to and knew a lot of republican legislators in connecticut. they would hold town hall meetings, and even their most fierce gun advocates understood they survived, they got re-elected after voting for, i think, perhaps the most aggressive gun safety law in america. same thing happened in florida.

we had a member of congress vote for a ban of military style weapons. he easily got re-elected. the florida legislature, one of the most right-wing in america, passed gun safety laws. they weren't penalized. i mean, it's just -- it's garbage that is spewed out by the nra and by other gun groups, isn't it? >> well, listen, i use joe manchin as an example. in 2013, joe manchin represented one of the most republican states in the nation, west virginia. he led the compromise that would have, at the time, expanded background checks to all commercial sales. there were a whole bunch of democrats who represented much less republican states who voted against that compromise. they lost. joe manchin won in that state. pat toomey, who was part of that compromise, won in a, you know, pennsylvania, a state where democrats were doing very well during the time of his

re-election. he won because he picked up votes in the pennsylvania suburbs that wouldn't have been available had he not voted and led on the issue of background checks. there is example after example of how you do well in democratic areas and republican areas when you take this issue seriously. i think this time, the reason republicans are at the table, is there is this just new, palpable fear and anxiety in the american public. i have never seen parents as scared as they are right now about the conversations their kids are having to have in school. so this time, i do think the republicans realized that going home and blocking this kind of legislation, especially when a reasonable offer was on the table, was just not sustainable. and i'm glad for the fact that so many republicans took a risk and sat down at the table to get this done. >> that's great. >> this time is different because they can't hide from it. there will be another mass shooting. there is one every day, and there will be one coming to a state or a congressional district near them at some

point. you cannot turn away from it, even if they try. >> that's the grave tragedy. >> pervaded our society. >> senator murphy, thank you for being with us. as the framework deal focuses on mental health, researchers are pointing out key similarities of the attackers in the worst shootings. >> robb elementary, parkland, sandy hook, and virginia tech, shooters were 17 to 23 years old. researchers say studies show the pre-frontal cortex, critical to understanding the consequences of one's actions and controlling impulses, does not fully develop until about the age of 25. the "washington post" reports salvador ramos, who killed 19 children and 2 teachers in uvalde last month was said to be bullied over a lisp and a stutter. nikolas cruz, who murdered 17 students and staff at marjorie stoneman douglas high school in

parkland had exhibited behavioral issues since middle school. adam lanza, who killed 26 people in sandy hook elementary school in newtown in 2012, was a loaner who spent much of his last few months locked in his bedroom communicating with his mother via email, even as they lived in the same house. the "washington post" spoke with a criminologist studying the lives of mass shootings. it reports, quote, when she has gone back decades later to sbrer view perpetrators who committed an attack in their teens or early 20s, they don't even recognize the person who did that. she said the perpetrators describe feeling disconnected from their murderous earlier selves. experts say in the case of shooters, quote, we're talking about boys who have been emasculated over a period of time. we were bullied or ignored or didn't have the dating life or

popularity they wanted. this often leads to fantasies of unlimited power and greatness and a disconnection of reality. remember, that with the brain that hasn't fully developed up until the age of 25. >> mike barnicle, it is -- you look at this, you look at other studies, i mean, that's why so many decisions are made that young men especially, like, for instance, can't rent a car until they're 25. i mean, we've heard time and time again about how boys' brains take longer to develop. we may be seeing, unfortunately, the tragic consequences of that here. >> joe, all of that that mika referred to, it's all true. it is all tragic. it is all universal. it's all a sense of wary for if you have a young boy in the

house, a young man, 18, 19, 20 years of age, whatever. but there is no getting around the fact that despite the vortex of your brain at whatever age, the availability of a handgun or an assault rifle is the crucial issue here. we eight not to get weighted under with the psychological stuff, without really worrying about the access to weapons. >> to your point, mike, other countries have young boys in them. they have the same brains that are growing the same way with the same limitations at different times in their lives. the one difference, of course, is the hundreds of millions of guns that are just, you know, roiling around in the american public and available. >> and, again, what makes the difference here, mike, is, again, talking about banning weapons of war for 18, 19,

20-year-olds. making people be at least 21 years of age. i mean, i would recommend much higher, but at least 21 years of age. one other thing, this is a side note, obviously, and i'm not drawing comparisons. but, mike, when you hear about this study and how this woman said that when she talked to people who were in prison for committing crimes earlier, doing things, they say they didn't even recognize -- >> i can't imagine doing that. >> -- themselves. let's turn it from one of the most extraordinarily negative situations to one of the most positive situations. you know, when we were -- you and i have been to normandy several times on anniversaries. i remember on the 60th anniversary, walking along the cliffs of normandy with men then in their 70s, late 70s and early 80s, saying, how did you do that? how did you get off these

landing crafts and charge up the hill? to a person, they said, you know, i would have never done it at 30. for some reason, at 18, i just thought they want me to do it, and i never once thought anything would happen to me. >> amazing. >> i just charged the beach and got up the hill. i said, yeah, but how did you do it? they said, they told me to do it. it was my job. and so, you know, there may be a reason why it has been in the past 18, 19, 20, 21-year-old boys and -- i say boys because i've got four kids. >> a lot. >> three boys. but it is, there are developmental issues, and we need to figure out how, in public safety, in gun safety, we take that into account to protect all americans. >> and identify issues. >> that's certainly true, joe. everything you said is true. you know, when you're coming

off, you know, a boat on a beach in normandy at the age of 18, 19, whatsoever, the thing that really pulls you off that boat and onto the beach and withering gunfire, you're petrified, already soiled yourself probably several times, is peer pressure. because the person alongside of you is going. you want to go, too, because of the person alongside you. i think the average age of the first four, five years, casualty rates in vietnam, i think the average age of death was just a bit over 19 years of age. >> oh, yeah. >> think about that. >> terrible. >> i mean, this is a country now so locked into political paralysis that common sense flees. common sense disappears. >> yeah. >> if you say, joe, what you encounter in the course of your day, the course of your political life, what we want to do with assault weapons is raise the age of purchase from 18 to 21, i'd bet even if your old

congressional district, you'd get a majority of people saying, let's do it. now, no way. >> no doubt about it. i will tell you, again, i've said it time and again, i grew up in baptist churches across the deep south. any time something like this would happen, you know, in sunday school, people would be muttering. why do they need that type of gun? why do they need that much ammo? why do they need? i'm looking around, again, at people who have been hunting with their dad since they were very young, who probably had three, four shotguns and knew guns a hell of a lot better than any of these 18-year-old did that go in to buy their first gun. yeah, you're exactly right. again, i will say, close to 90% of americans support universal background checks. we need to keep moving in that direction for the safety of all americans. but, mika, i agree with you, this is a step forward. >> it is. >> and we need to commend -- >> we'll take it. >> -- chris murphy.

we need to commend john cornyn. we need to commend all of those republicans and democrats that sat down together. just because it seems simple to those of us that are sitting on the sidelines, you know, doesn't mean it is simple for those people who are sitting in that room. >> obviously not, no. >> we will certainly, in the interest of our children and those we love, we will take that small step forward. still ahead on "morning joe," in just under three hours from now, the house committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol will kick off its second public hearing. we'll be joined by a member of the panel before things get under way. plus, new emails show jinni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice thomas, pressured dozens of lawmakers in arizona to overturn the 2020 election, far more than previously known. is this okay? >> no, it's not okay. >> it can't be okay.

>> it is also not okay that conservatives in washington continue to act like she's a great leader of the conservative movement there. >> she's married -- >> when she's trying -- well, when she's trying to overturn a presidential election. she has her job. her husband has his job. hopefully the two don't meet, even though there are suggestions that perhaps they do. still, right now, i'm locklookit the conservative community in washington, d.c., who still put her on a pedestal, despite the fact she's trying to overthrow an american presidential election. >> we'll dig into the reporting, folks. >> no excuse. the white house loosens covid testing requirements for international travelers. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪♪ ♪♪

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32 past the hour.

the biden administration has lifted the requirement that all airplane travelers must test negative for covid-19 before entering the u.s. a senior administration official says the cdc made the decision, quote, based on the science and data that this requirement is no longer necessary at this time. the agency is expected to reassess the decision in 90 days, according to the official, if there is a need o to reinstate the requirement, the cdc will not hesitate. a massive wildfire is burning across new mexico. the fire, which has been raging since april 6th, has grown to be the largest in the state's history. the u.s. forest service accidentally sparked the blaze during a prescribed burn operation. president biden traveled to the state on saturday and flew over the perimeter of the fire in air

force one to view the damage. the white house said in a statement that biden's order would cover, quote, debris removal and emergency protective measures for 90 days. and we are learning more about the efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election by the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. the "washington post" reports that ginni thomas sent emails to at least 29 republican lawmakers in arizona in november and december of 2020. the first round of messages were sent just daysclared the offici that state. in them, thomas calls on state lawmakers to, quote, stand strong in the face of political and media pressure. and ensure a clean slate of electors is chosen. she sent another batch of emails in december before members of the electoral college were

slated to cast their votes. the "post" has previously reported on ginni thomas' text messages to mark meadows, the chief of staff to former president trump, asking him to help reverse the election results. the wife of supreme court judge pushing the big lie and getting involved. coming up, an important conversation on the war in ukraine and a strategy for the long haul. that's the latest piece from the president of the counsel on foreign relations, richard haass. he joins us next. also ahead, artificial intelligence that's too advanced? a google engineer claims the company's new chat bot is more human than robot. was that engineer put on paid leave because of that revelation? we'll explain more coming up on "morning joe." thinkorswim® equips you with customizable tools, dedicated trade desk pros, and a passionate trader community sharing strategies right on the platform.

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39 past the hour. ukraine is being outgunned and outmanned in its effort to stop russia's takeover in the eastern donbas region and are losing grip on a key eastern city. nbc news foreign correspondent molly hunter reports. >> reporter: this morning, russian forces inching closer to encircling the city of severodonetsk. ukrainian president zelenskyy says the fighting is for every meter of that city, now almost entirely under russian control with an estimated 10,000 civilians still inside. russian state media showing smoke rising from the ukrainian-controlled azov chemical plant, where the regional governor says 500 people, including children, are sheltering. in nearby villages, as the fighting creeps closer, not everybody wants to evacuate. this woman says, sweetheart, where can i go? who is waiting for me there? let others go, they are young. president zelenskyy says russia can still be stopped but with

more weapons. one of his advisers tweeting out their military wish list overnight. but president putin saying if more longer-range weapons systems were supplied to ukraine, we will use our means of destruction, which we have plenty of. over the weekend, an adviser to president zelenskyy suggesting to the bbc as many as 200 ukrainian soldiers were dying every day. combined with the wounded, ukraine may be losing some 700 fighters from the battlefield daily. but those still fighting are determined. filmmaker turned front line soldier elisa was in kharkiv for a 12-hour break. >> when you're exhausted, completely exhausted because of the intensive months. it's a moment you can be so exhausted, that you can make a mistake. it can mean death. >> reporter: but for elisa, there is no question, she's going back. >> i still have power to go back

to. >> let's bring in the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. richard, just looks like a deadlock. no reason for either side to give in right now. take us through it. >> well, it's a deadlock in the sense that neither side is prepared to compromise for peace, but it is not a deadlock on the ground. what we're seeing, and i think that report captured it, joe, is at some point, quantity overwhelming quality. i would argue the ukrainians have pound for pound a higher quality military. now that the war is basically being fought in a relatively confined space, the sheer quantity of russian arms and armor is beginning to grind the ukrainians down, which is why you see president zelenskyy and others pleading for as quickly as possible various, longer-range systems to come into their hands. that way, they can deal with the russian forces from a greater distance. but i would say the last two weeks or so have been the worst two weeks of the war for ukraine.

the fact that things are going well for the russians, there's zero chance mr. putin is interested in stopping a war he feels is finally going in his direction. the ukrainians have zero interest in stopping a war where they've already lost 20% of their territory. add up what they lost in 2014 and the last three, four months, you simply don't have the prerequisites for diplomacy here. >> mika, on the ground, you have the russians who were beginning the war, sped themselves too thin, had too many goals. they've consolidated and are moving slowly. they've slowed everything down strategically on the battlefield, and they are now, finally, bit by bit, grinding it out and making slow progress but progress all the same in eastern ukraine. >> richard, let's get to your latest article in "foreign affairs," which is entitled "a ukraine strategy for the long haul." the west needs a policy to manage a war that will go on.

you write, in part, quote, diplomatically, the ukrainians have little interest in accepting russian occupation of large swaths of their territory. russian president vladimir putin, for his part, has little interest in agreeing to anything that could be judged at home to constitute defeat. the inescapable conclusion, then, is that this war will go on and on. the west, thus, needs a strategy for the long haul, while avoiding direct military involvement. the united states and europe should keep providing ukraine with the arms it needs, along with associated intelligence and training, so that it can frustrate russian military actions and regain control of more of its territory. they should back ukraine's goal of restoing its full territorial integrity through an open-ended policy of sanctions and diplomacy while holding fast

to their refusal to recognize any territory that putin attempts to make part of russia. i guess my question is, what do you mean by that, including crimea, territory taken years ago? >> possibility of cry mae i can't crimea. also, richard, what do they need now? they're losing ground. what does the west need to provide now that they haven't? >> ukraine needs more of what it's got. more rocket systems. more longer range missiles. i actually think it still needs aircraft. i think at some point, i'd love to give them the capability to go after the russian ships in the black sea that are blockading the port. with military help, of the sort i described, i think ukraine can hold off the russians. i don't think, though, there's any chance that, no matter how much military help we give ukraine, they could ever get back crimea or the donbas or all of the south. it is almost a divided strategy. we give them military force to hold off the russians, then it's got to be through sanctions and

diplomacy. i'll be honest with you, i don't think it happens under vladimir putin. he is comparing himself to peter the great. i think this is going to be a long haul thing. ukraine holds the line militarily now, and only probably with subsequent russian leadership do you say, you don't want to be the pariah putin turned you into. ultimately, we try to make a deal with a future russian leadership that might want to reintegrate russia and europe to the world. i think putin is hopeless. i don't think we can solve this now. i think what we can do is help ukraine and keep it as a viable, sovereign country. >> richard, let's say that the russians are continuing to progress in the donbas, severodonetsk, and it does fall. what will that mean if that whole region falls under russian control? are there fears here? we're starting to hear some from the ukrainians. do we think they'd consolidate

that victory and attempt to move further into ukraine or do they stay put and hold the land? >> that's the defeat, whether putin will say it was enough of a victory, then they'll debate in the west, is this acceptable? my sense is not. or whether the russians would use this as a platform to resume the war on kyiv. i don't rule it out. we have to take or adversaries literally. listen to putin. he has grandiose ambitions. he sees himself as a pre-soviet leader, this russian terms. he wrote about it last summer and is talking about now. he wants to create large swaths of the russian empire, so i take him seriously. my own sense is no matter what he agreed to, it'd be tactical. he wants something more. he does not want an independent ukraine, for example, ever being a viable democracy, much less joining the european union. he does not want that example on his border. >> so, richard, stay with us. we have much more to talk about. obviously, a big weekend in

golf. we'll talk about where golf meets foreign policy and talk specifically -- >> sports. >> -- about the liv tournament. talk about what's happening over in saudi arabia and the consequences. we'll be right back. es we'll be right back. was not g. i had periodontal disease, and i just didn't feel well. but then i found clearchoice. [ forde ] replacing marcia's teeth with dental implants at clearchoice was going to afford her that permanent solution. [ marcia ] clearchoice dental implants gave me the ability to take on the world. i feel so much better, and i think that that is the key. fishing helps ease my mind. it's kinda like having liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. woah! look out! [submarine rising out of water] [minions making noise]

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52 past the tour. pga tour commissioner jay monahan joined yesterday's cbs broad caster in the final rounds of the rbc canadian open and defended his decision to suspend players competing in the rival liv golf series international. >> why do they need us so badly? because those players have chosen to sign multi-year, lucrative contracts to play in a series of exhibition matches against the same players over and over again.

you look at that versus what we see here today, and that's why they need us so badly. you've got true, pure competition. that's why they need us. that's what we do. but we're not going to allow players to free ride off of our loyal members the best players if the world. >> on the course, rory mcilroy successfully defended his title in toronto with a two-stroke win and took a dig at liv golf. ceo greg norman. >> yeah, this is a day i'll remember a long, long time. 21st pga tour win, one more than someone else. that gives me a little extra incentive today. happy to get it done. >> mcilroy marking his 21st pga tour win, one better than norman. 2011 masters champion swrls schwartzel banked nearly $5

million with hit liv win. brian dechambeau signs on with liv. those players will face the same punishment as the 17 who were suspended last week. what's going on here? >> richard, let me ask you -- >> since you are or foreign policy and golf analyst. >> exactly. the roger bennett of golf for "morning show." let's talk about liv before roarry. what is your take on the liv developments? >> saudis use car racing and the rest to wash their image. liv, by the way, jonathan

lamere -- these are 54 rather than 72 role tournaments. if you birdied every hole in a 72 tournament, you would card a 54. so that's what this is. that's what this is about. they've attracted mainly older players. a couple in their prime. and they're paying them outrageous sums. charles schwarzle averaged $88,000 a hole for three days. that's pretty good wages if you can get it. and the pga is taking a really tough line. we saw jay monahan up there. the question is whether you can sustain it, whether you can have two rival tours. people are seeing whether the saudis get television access, whether more players defect to it. this could be like the early '60s when youed a the afl

rivalling the nfl. we'll see whether it can survive. but for the saudis, this is part of a larger effort to break out from their pariah status after the murder of mr. khashoggi. >> you had some golfers asked, who wouldn't you play for? would you play for puten? basically, is there no depths who you'll play for? of course, a lot of people, rightly concerned, by phil mickelson's initial reaction to all of this. but richard, the president of the united states is going to go to saudi arabia at some point himself and most foreign policy people have decided we have to have a working relationship with the saudis. how do those two things get squared? >> the golfers are remarkably inarticulate at justifying what they are doing. it is about the money.

the reasons for joe biden to go to saudi arabia are more, shall we say more worthy. you have the possibility of saudi arabia following suit with other countries and creating relations with israel. we need greater saudi output on oil. we want them to extend the cease-fire and the war in yemen. we could probably get some political human rights promises from the saudis about the future. so i think there's a legitimate reason for having a relationship with saudi arabia, if you're the president of the united states. is there a legitimate for phil mickelson to have this relationship or greg norman? no, this is simply greed, no more, no less. >> richard, thank you very much. still ahead. we're following the two biggest stories on capitol hill this morning. the latest on a bipartisan deal for a framework on new gun safety legislation in the senate. and what to expect from the

january 6th committee, as it prepares for a second public hearing. plus, we'll get a live report from cnbc as record inflation and soaring gas prices have wall street poised for another big selloff. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ment you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. only at vanguard you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means that your priorities are ours too. our interactive tools and advice can help you build a future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership.

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back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. it is the top of the third hour of "morning joe." what a beautiful shot of capitol hill, where a lot will be happening this morning. >> a lot happening this morning. happy monday. >> yeah. >> it's 8:00 a.m. might be time to get up. you think it's time to get up? >> if you're getting up now, you're late. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east

coast. >> you know what? stay in bed for a while. >> the second public hearing on the january 6th attack on the capitol starts in two hours from now. >> get up for that. >> the select committee will go through the history and how it fuelled the violence at the capitol. mean while, a group of senators have narrowed down what could be the most substantial gun legislation on preventing gun violence in decades. we'll go through what is and what is not in the dole. but there is a deal. >> yeah. >> and on wall street, the markets are picking up right where they left off on friday. the dow is down 600. >> going to be sufficient. >> we're going to start this hour with the house select committee investigating the attack on the capital, holding a second public hearing this morning. the focus today on president trump's so-called big lie, with

two panels of witnesses testifying, including trump's 2020 campaign manager. nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker has more. >> reporter: in just a few hours, the january 6th committee will hold its second high-stakes hearing. an aide saying it will focus on the anatomy of former president trump's big lie. his decision to declare victory in an election he knew he lost, spread claims of fraud, and then ignored dozens of court routings against him. >> he knew it was a lie but he continued to act on that. >> reporter: today's testimony could be explosive, when his former campaign manager bill sep yen takes the hotseat. according to "the new york times," he was in a meeting which he told president trump of the exceedingly low odds of success with his challenges. ultimately, stepien played a role in the stop the steal messaging. >> they cheated and they rigged our presidential election.

but we will see win it. >> another notable witness, a former fox news editor, chris stirewalt, who came under fire from the former president and his allies for being a part of the fox team that called arizona first for joe biden. >> i'm not in a position to tell you what i'm going to testify about. >> reporter: membering of the select committee have enough evidence for the justice department to pursue a criminal indictment of mr. trump. >> i would like to see the justice department investigate any credible allegation of criminal activity on the part of donald trump or anyone else. >> reporter: but many republicans disagree. >> you can make the case, and i would agree, that he's politically, morally responsible for much of what has happened. but in terms of criminal liability, i think the committee has a long way to go before they could establish that. >> reporter: the committee is aiming to keep the momentum going, after its dramatic opening hearing last week, which included videotape from ivanka

trump, who accepted former attorney general bill barr's statement the election was not stolen. >> i respect attorney general barr. so i accepted what he was saying. >> so a lot of things happened during the trump years, including trump with an emphasis on ratings and crowd size meant success. >> it was all about him. >> for sure, yeah. so around 20 million viewers were watching the story about him in the united states, tuned in for the first time, for the first primetime hearing last thursday. that according to preliminary nielsen data. 12 networks aired it. but fox news did not air it. but still, as "the new york times" points out, those 20 million viewers is in the ballpark with big television

events like sunday night football or the macy's thanksgiving day parade. >> you want to, compare those 20 million viewers with the ratings that donald trump got in his finales, for his final seasons. 2014 season of "celebrity apprentice" was the final season, 7.6 million. and his original "apprentice" that was when it was just trump before they added gary busey and other people. so think about this, mike. you know, president trump and all of his -- all of his stooges have been talking about how january 6th committee was a failure, even before it even started. it's boring. they weren't even watching. people on fox news talking about how boring it was.

they wouldn't even let people watch it. it was -- again, 20 million viewers. again, liz cheney's performance the other night talking, going meticulously through the evidence, through the facts. it showed donald trump's own people said he knew that he lost. that he was putting together this conspiracy, this lie. she -- for a guy who judges everything by ratings, looks like "the apprentice" was trounced. >> there are a few elements here. first, we'll deal with the mar-a-lago numbers, the 20 million for 12 million for president trump's "apprentice." those numbers are clearly rigged

by the left. anybody who knows anything about tv has to be. you know, he did very, very well. that's what he would probably tell you this morning. the other aspect is that 20 million, legitimate 20 million viewers, who watched the opening round of the hearings last week, i think that surprises even to people who expected the hearings to do well. but the important thing, i think, is that culturally we are in an age, a visual age. so the things that people take from the hearings, the things that people responded to in the hearings, would be the visual aspect of the hearings. the beginning of the hearings, where they showed a riot against the police. we showed police lives in danger. spectacularly so. upsettingly so. and jonathan, i don't know whether you agree with that contention, but that's the image people are going to live with. >> no question. that's footage that was never

seen before, the violence. some taken by the body cams on these capitol police officers, we're showing some of it now. just the pure terror you could hear in some of the voices and the menace of what's happening here. it's hard to fathom. and the 20 million, i talked to people, joe, close to the committee. they were very encouraged by that number. this was a significant number of the american people. i'm also struck by the difference in viewership between "celebrity apprentice" and the regular "apprentice" of 3 million. do we give credit to gary busey, which would mean told be a formidable 2024 candidate. we'll have a daytime hearing today. it will draw fewer numbers. but those in the committee feel like it will have a resonance going forward as they tell the tale of what happened that day and put the blame at the feet of

donald trump. >> we're showing the "celebrity" numbers, having a little fun there. but, again, it's important for people to realize when you look at how much attention this first hearing got, after hearing all the whining from washington, even the media talking about how these people had failed, even before they began. more people watched the opening hearing than watched the final game of last year's world series, between the braves and the astros. about 20 million to 11.76 million. same thing with nba finals going on right now, between boston and golden state. again, 20 million for a hearing, for a congressional hearing. >> amazing. >> 11.78 million for the nba finals this past week. "american idol" got 6.5 million. "survivor" 7.5 million, again, doing about a third and a fourth

as well as the hearing. 20 million people again. so it's significant. again, for people that always are saying nobody cares, nobody is paying attention, well, they are paying attention. and -- and they want to know more or else they wouldn't have sat there and sat through that, all 20 million americans. >> joining us now, a member of the january 6th select committee, congressman pete aguilar of california. he's vice chair of the house democratic caucus, as well. it's good to have you on this morning. we're going to be watching this morning, what can we expect to hear and see? >> thanks for having me, mika and joe. what you'll hear today is a continuation of the conversation we look to have with the american public. you heard us start to make the case at our first hearing last week. and a key part of that was that a number of people told the

president that he lost the election. you saw some of those clips in the first hearing. we're going to pick up where that left off. so we're going to talk about the number of voices that told donald trump that he lost the campaign. yet he continued to push this lie. but also they look to make -- to profit off of it, by sending out hundreds and hundreds of campaign emails to continue to push the lie. >> is bill stepien one of those people who told donald trump he lost? >> i won't get ahead of the witness testimony, but what i can tell you is that a key theme of this hearing will be a number of people who told the former president that he lost the campaign. yet he continued to go on tv, he continued to go using any type of platform he had, whether it was twitter, whether it was speeches, to continue to push

the lie that we all know, and he did it because he was at the center of this coordinated assault on democracy. >> all right. british documentary filmmaker nick quested says appearing before the january 6th hearing was "the most nerve-racking experience of my career." speaking to nbc news following his testimony last week, quested said, "it was a privilege to testify in this way, and i think it's important that they find the truth." on "meet the press" yesterday, quested discussed the significance of filming the garage meeting between the leaders of the proud boys and the oath keepers on the eve of the attack. >> when did you realize that was such a key moment and it was going to be a key moment legally? because that is evidence in

these seditious conspiracy charges that they are dealing with. >> we realized its importance after the january 6th -- we thought it was just an optically bad thing to do when we were shooting it. but having met them -- having sort of rendezvoused at the phoenix hotel earlier, that is sort of when we really understood it to be a -- an optically bad situation. >> congressman, what is the significance of what -- the filmmaker's testimony, as well as what he was able to show the panel? >> well, we appreciate him coming before the panel, as well as sharing the hours and hours

of footage that he shared with us. the importance was to help set the table, to talk about january 6th. we need to see what happened on january 6th, and this was a very unique view. so you saw that, and our use of multimedia presentations to stitch together the police body cam footage with the foot an from the capitol itself, looking outside to the crowd, and then layered with the documentaryian coverage. really painted the picture for what is happening, especially on the west steps. it was powerful, it was moving. you're going to see a lot of multimedia in the coming weeks ahead with these hearings, because we think it's important to capture the public's attention to set the stage and to show exactly what was happening. >> yeah, i love the phrasing there, optically bad situation to describe the meeting to prove

a conspiracy that could put people in jail for a long time. >> two outlaw groups trying to overturn the constitution of the united states. congressman, going forward, will the american public be given more evidence of the alleged members of congress, republican members of congress, who have allegedly asked for pardons? >> yes. there's more evidence that we look to share on that topic, and a variety of others. and we'll share them through the hearings. i'm not going to get ahead of the hearing ahead of us today. today, we're going to hear some powerful testimony, and it's an important piece of the puzzle that we are putting together here. but there will be more opportunities to share that information. >> congressman pete aguilar, thank you very much for being on. we'll be watching. we have an update now on two primary races. former governor and vice

presidential candidate sarah palin has advanced in alaska's primary election to fill the state's sole congressional seat. a total of 48 candidates were on the ballot, including a man legally named santa claus. the top four candidates, including palin, moved on to the special general election, taking place in august. the special election was prompted by the death of congressman don young, the longest serving republican in the house, when he died back in march. and in alabama, the senate race there, former president trump, two had previously endorsed congressman mo brooks, and now endorsed katie brit, the former chief of staff to retiring senator richard shelby. trump rescinded his endorsement of brooks back in march after their relationship soured. in his announcement on friday, trump said --

>> that's probably a lie based on everything he ever said in the past. >> but i cannot give it to him. katie britt on the other hand is a fearless america first twitter. brooks wrote in part -- >> boy, that's an understatement. time and time again. you talk to republicans in georgia, they will tell you, he always endorses the wrong person. you talk to republicans in pennsylvania, they've done it there. >> dr. oz. >> he's made it -- the same thing with ohio. he's made it extraordinarily difficult for republicans who should be -- who should just be cleaning up this fall. he's certainly made it a lot tougher for the republicans to do well in the senate races.

>> and the candidates should be republicans. that would be new. now to an interesting story involving google. and engineer at the company says he was placed on leave after claiming an artificial intelligence chat bot at the company had developed the ability to perceive or feel things. so he told "the washington post" that the chat bot was showing the ability to think and reason, like a human child. he said the bot could express thoughts and feelings, and was able to have conversations with him about rights and personhood. after making these claims, he was placed on paid administrative leave. a google spokesperson said the claims about the system being sentient are false and put him on leave for violates their

confidentiality policy. >> i read this a couple of times, which was crazy. what do you think? >> this is how the word ends, joe. we have seen this movie before. >> that's what i was thinking. >> ha's how this ends. fast forward, it's arnold schwarzenegger wearing leather and things are on fire. like when machines come to life and start having feelings, nothing good can come of it. so i just want to say, it's been an honor working with you guys, and i'm concerned about how this will be one of our final shows. >> let me just say to our friends running the matrix, what jonathan lamere says is his opinion, and no other opinions of any other carbon based life forms on this show. seriously, google has been warned by a.i. ethicists to

watch their step. >> think about how scary this is, that you have these little machines and you have it in your desk, and it starts ordering breakfast for you. it's talking to you in child-like terms. whatever. it is a movie in the making, no doubt about that. it's already been made a couple of times. but wow, a.i., artificial intelligence, the things that we do not know that google knows. and by the way, that the pentagon knows about artificial intelligence are frightening. >> yeah, yeah. mike, you just said ordering food, ordering other things on our computers and phones without us knowing about it. you just described our children, mike. >> we don't need more of that. really. don't need any more. you, mike, don't need any more. >> let's just leave it to the kids.

still ahead on "morning joe," our conversation with senator chris murphy. what he had to say about the newly announced bipartisan deal on gun legislation. and why he's proud of the compromise that lawmakers have reached. for the first time, gas prices have hit $5 a gallon nationally. what analysts are saying where those prices are headed as we move into the summer travel season. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. all night ♪ ♪ and party every day. ♪ ♪ i want to rock and roll all night ♪ applebee's late night. because half off is just more fun. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. right now, we're all feelin' the squeeze. we're having to get creative. find a new way. but birthdays still happen. fridays still call for s'mores. you have to make magic, and you're figuring out how to do that. what you don't have to figure out is where to shop.

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because this country needs it. this country needs to know that washington is listening to them, and that if 80% and 90% of the american public agree on something, that democracy will thriver. >> welcome back to "morning joe." senator murphy is standing by on the deal just reached that could lead to the biggest change in gun laws in nearly 30 years. but first, let's get the details from nbc news correspondent josh letterman. >> reporter: democrats and republicans doing what almost no one thought they could -- reaching a deal on guns. it's a compromise, far short of what democrats wanted. like an assault weapons ban. still, joe biden saying it would be the most significant gun legislation to pass congress in decades. the president pushing congress to pass it fast, writing, the sooner it comes to my desk, the soonerky sign it. just this weekend, tens of thousands took to the streets across the u.s., demanding that

congress act. >> i want to bring a measure to the floor for a vote as quickly as possible. >> reporter: the centerpiece of the deal targets 18 to 21-year-old gun buyers, requiring them to wait for enhanced background checks, including a check with local police. it's a framework, but ten republicans have signed on, enough to stand a real chance of becoming law. even senate republican leader rich rich, a staunch gun rights advocate, issuing a statement supporting the negotiations. though not necessarily the final product. >> i think that there is a little breakthrough here. >> reporter: a breakthrough congress kaled to reach after so many previous mass shootings. this time, lawmakers reaching for more modest steps, agreeing to help states carry out red flag laws, which let courts take guns away from people that are a risk. and closing a loophole that allows some domestic abuers to

buy guns. also money for mental health. the most recent push following mass shootings in buffalo and uvalde, texas. >> what made the difference this time is how forified millions of americans have been. >> senator chris murphy of connecticut joins us now. senator, when i look at this gun legislation, i'm reminded of a couple of quotes from political giants from the 19th century. one was bismarck who said politics is the art of the possible. the second is lincoln who said, i'm a slow walker, but i never walk back. i guess this is a step forward, right? >> it is. there's a reason why we haven't passed any anti-gun violence legislation in 30 years. this is difficult, and the fact of the matter is, we reached a compromise over the weekend that will save lives. i understand that part of the new series, the breakthrough,

this does allow us to break this log jam and it allows us to be set up for future success. but the content of this compromise, in and of itself, will save lives. the ability to help states pass red flag laws will stop thousands of suicides and homicides, the closing of the boyfriend loophole means boyfriends that beat up their girlfriends won't be able to buy guns. protections for 21 and under buyers, that means that there is a pause for any 18 to 20-year-old who is going into a store to buy an ar-15, like the uvalde shooter, and then the mental health spending will be transformative. billions of new dollars formental health, a lot going to underserved communities. that will save lives, too. this is a compromise, but it is a difference maker. it is a substantial compromise that is going to stop a lot of

suicides, a lot of homicides, and save a lot of lives in this country. i'm proud of it and i'm proud of my negotiating partners for get thing done. >> a couple of things. first, on the gun side of things. i would guess most americans think that it makes sense to move the age from 18 to 21. at the very least for -- you didn't have the votes for that. but tell me what new safeguards are in place there specifically that will make a real difference? >> yeah, i think when we start to count the votes in the senate, it was just not clear that we had 60 votes to raise the age. obviously, something that i support. but in many ways, what we built into the law is a pretty significant change. first, there's going to be a pause for any 18 to 21-year-old buyer in order to conduct this

more comprehensive background check, and part of that is a call to the local police department. in the uvalde case, this individual probably didn't have a prohibition from stopping him, but he did have interactions with the police department, and that alerts the police department that this disturbed young man was going to the gun store days after his 18th birthday would have set off a red flag and perhaps would have led to an intervention that could have stopped this murder. so that pause, i do believe will save lives. while it's not everything i want, it is much better than current law, and, again, is going to i think stop many of these mass atrocities from happening. >> so the same thing, let's talk about health care, mental health care. something we've talked about a great deal on this show. and specifically, the increasing funding for mental health care in underserved areas.

if you're on the east coast, if you're on the west coast, if you're many metropolitan centers, chances are good you have more access to health care, mental health care. but you look at uvalde and some of these other people that are falling through the cracks, this is where so many of these tragedies are occurring. what can you tell us about the funding mechanism for the mental health part of this compromise? >> well, there's -- we have not announced any numbers, but suffice it to say, we're talking about billions of new dollars in mental health spending that will be part of this bill. our intention is to pay for it, and that's important to all of us, especially to many republicans. we're going to do three main things. first, we're going the build out a national system of community health centers. this is something that debbie stabenow and senator blount have been working on, to focus on health care centers across the

community. and we're going to make it easier for people that live in rural communities to get access to mental health via the internet or the phone. and lastly, school-based mental health. we'll put a lot of money into building mental health clinics in our schools so more kids get served there. i haven't run the numbers based on comparisons, but this is one of the biggest non-budgetary investments in mental health in the history of the country. coming up, live to the white house for this morning's reaction to the gun safety framework on capitol hill. but first, police arrest 31 men with alleged links to a white nationalist group. and authorities say they were dressed for battle. that is next on "morning joe." ." there's a monster problem and our hero needs solutions. so she starts a miro to brainstorm. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it.

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welcome back. more than 30 alleged members of

a far-right group in idaho were arrested over the weekend. police say they were heading toward a pride parade. nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: the dramatic scene unfolding in a small town in idaho. dozens of suspected white nationalists zip tied and arrested, after coeur d'alene police found the group crammed inside this u-haul truck blocks away from a pay pride event. >> no one should fear going to a pride celebration because of a white supremist. >> reporter: the men, one of them wearing a shirt with the words "reclaim america." >> these guys stopped a u-haul full of dudes. >> reporter: they got a 911 call from someone that described them as a little army. >> they were wearing similar attire. they had shields, shin guards, and other riot gear. >> reporter: police say they also recovered at least one

smoke grenade and paperwork similar to a military operations plan that included heading to a park nearby where the pride festival was underway. >> i don't think this would have been as successful had we not had one extremely astute citizen who saw something that was very concerning to them, and reported it to us. >> reporter: all 31 men are now charged with misdemeanor conspiracy to riot. investigators say they came from 12 states and appear to belong to a network talled the patriot front, described as a white supremacist group. formed after 201's unite the right rally in charlottesville, virginia. >> you look at their language and symbols, if you look at their ideology, it is white nationalist to the core and deeply dangerous. >> reporter: during pride month, filled with so many celebrations nationwide, many in the lbgtq community now on edge. >> it just hurts my heart to know these people want violence

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gas prices hit a national average of $5 a gallon over the weekend. and here's the problem -- it's not over. analysts say the costs could continue to climb. the peak is nowhere in sight. american households are spending about $160 more per month on fuel than they were a year ago. that comes on the heels of friday's consumer price index, showing inflation grows to 8.6%. we're talking about a four decade high. >> mom and dad, wake up the

kids. he's pissed off. steve, i look at these numbers, and, i mean, i'm sure i was like you, hoping against hope that the inflation would start to go down and ease a little bit. but man, between the war, between china slowly starting to open up again, i mean, it only seems like demand will go higher, right? >> joe, we were hoping the numbers would be better, but they were really disappointing, because it's not just gasoline, although gasoline is of critical importance to americans and a sticker price every time you see driving down the street. but it's broad based inflation and it's not getting better. what you can see in the friday numbers is how widespread it was. you see the red being energy 28% of the inflation. but shelter, housing is 21%. and food was 17%. so 2/3 of the inflation came

from things that americans have to have, necessities of life. and on the right, i put some just random categories just to show you what some of the individual price increases have been over the past year. gas up 50%. airfare up almost 40%. eggs up over 30%. window coverings, who thinks about window coverings -- >> explain to viewers why eggs would be going up that much, why window coverings would be going up that much? >> well, certainly it's not like people are buying huge amounts more eggs. it's more on the supply side in this case. in the case of eggs, you do have this issue of avian flu going through the bird population that may have had some impact. a lot is just classic supply chain problems that manufacturers, agricultural growers, whatever, can't get enough of the supplies they need, so they supply less, consumers continue to demand

just as much, and prices go up. coffee is up 16%. so we're seeing large increases really across the board on all kinds of things. and that's -- >> i was just going to say, you look at these numbers, it all seems like it's bad. it's all going to keep going up, and my god, over the last year, we have seen wages skyrocket. we talked about it a good bit. and yet your next chart shows that no matter how much more money people are making, they're not feeling it at the end of the day, because the price, inflation is outpacing whatever gains they may be making in their salaries. >> they're feeling worse at the end of the day, joe, as you just indicated. we had, in the occasion of the unemployment data a weeker earlier, wages continue to grow

5%, but when you have 8.6% inflation, you lose 4% of your purchasing power. that's the little line or circle on the left. so we went for a long period where wages were exceeding inflation. and then they have gone off a cliff. on the right, last friday, we also got the consumer senate report, that's the red line circled there, hit its lowest level since the index was compiled in 1978. so you have a lot of very unhappy americans out there. we still have a low unemployment rate, about 3.5%. but 55% of americans think we're in a recession at the moment. that's how bad they feel because of what's happening with inflation and their wages and gas prices and all of that. >> yeah. so steve, i read one op-ed after another about how this is joe biden's inflation, this is joe biden's fault.

it makes me tired. it would make me much more tired if i didn't know democrats would do the same thing to a republican president. everybody is going to blame whoever is in there. but so much of this is outside the hands of a president. which leads to the next question -- it seems to me the fed chair, the fed have the real power. how much should they jack up interest rates? if you have inflation at 8.5%, and it can go even higher, at what point does the fed step in and start getting really aggressive? >> the fed is going to have a meeting this week, and they're going to make an announcement on wednesday. the market expects another half a percentage point in interest rates to go up. >> is that enough? >> that's not even close. >> no, it's not enough. it's not enough. you're going to have to have interest rates go unsubstantially more, maybe 5%, 6% to deal with the inflation.

but raising interest rates has consequences. you can see how sharply they have gone up since the beginning of this year. i show you the ten-year treasury and i show you mortgage rates, which are up two full percentage points to over 5%. to understan relationship between interest rates and the stock market. and i drew a a vertical black line on the two charts, the one on the left being interest rates and on the right become the stock market which hit the peak in jarn of this year and the interest rate begans to climb and the stock market rolls over and by the way we're going to have a ugly day this morning on the stock market, at least at the open. enough to bring the s&p index into bear market territory which means a decline of 20%. and so this is all not good. >> steve rattner, thank you very much. we appreciate your coming on this morning. coming up, the best moments from

the biggest night on broadway. we'll recap the tony awards just ahead. plus, live reporting from capitol hill where another big day in the investigation into the january 6 attacks kicks off just a short time from now. a preview of today's hearing is straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. we hit the bike trails every weekend shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables

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♪♪ the 75th annual tony awards took place last night with host ariana debose with a match up of musicals over the decade. -- won the best musical and layman trilogy, and take me out and a gender swapped adaptation of company won five tonys including best revival of a musical. joining us now, the host of new york one's on stage dank di

lella. so big night for the company. >> absolutely. steven sondheim passed away so this was a tribute to sondheim. with katrina link leading the way and of course patty la pone, picking up awards for best futured actors in a musical. it was a great night for company. >> and miles frost won best performance by an actor in a leading role for his portrayal of michael jackson in mj the musical. michael jackson's children introduced the performance during the awards. >> a lot of people think that our dad changed popular music forever and who are we to disagree. but people may not know that he loved musicals and that is why we're honored to introduce tonight's first nominee for best musical. mj, using many of his hits looks at the brilliance of our

father's process. >> this number showcases that creative process as he builds a dance routine step by unforgettable step to one of his best loved hits. drawing on some of the influences who helped inspire his signature style. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> all right. frank, tell us about miles. >> miles is 22 years old. it is his first professional stage debut. his other credits include credits from high school. they actually found miles last minute. the original guy who would going to do the role on broadway had to back up because of a film commitm and miles came in last minute. they saw a video of him doing beat it and he booked the roll.

he's 22 years old and this morning he wakes up a tony award winner. >> and another big winner, jennifer hudson. now kind of claim to fame for her. >> she's an egot winner. she took home the award for best knew musical and now she has every major award to be an egot winner and a good night for jennifer hudson. >> she's so talented and amazing. i want to show billy crystal performed a number from his musical "mr. saturday night", where he took the audience through some improved yiddish scat. take a look. ♪♪ ♪♪

>> i love it. all improv and so much fun and it seems like it was an amazing night. >> and ariana debose being the host, she's fresh off hollywood gold for winning for west side story. it is nice so see her at the end of the tony awards celebrating. she's a broadway gal. >> and frank, i'm all for short of theeagot, but there was a tribute last night toward some of the understudies. this is a tony awards that comes in the shadow of the pandemic. we were talking before you came on, broadway largely returned to life but still seeing reports of cast members going down because they test positive. so talk about the important role that the behind the scenes people have played to keep broadway going during this tough time. >> well ariana gave multiple shoutouts and what was