months ago they were bullish in hiring and investing are now saying we're going to pull back on hiring and pull back on investment. this takes on a momentum of its own. he knows that. his economic advisers are telling him that. that means there is little he can do between now and then to save the economy and save his popularity rating. >> clock is ticking on democrats. jim vandehei, thank you. we'll talk to you later on "morning joe." thanks for getting up "way too early" on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. there are suggestions by i believe it was mayor ghoul nmsz giuliani to say we won outright. >> was there anyone in the conversation, in your observation, who had too much to drink? >> mayor giuliani. >> the mayor was definitely intoxicated, but i do not know that his level of intoxication when he spoke with the

president, for example. >> how would trump know giuliani was drunk? i mean, does this seem like a drunk person to you? >> tony blinken or how is that guy a general? all the networks, wow. all the networks. whew. i know prince andrew is very questionable now. i never went out with him. ever. never had a drink with him. never was with a woman or a young girl with him. no, i'm a functioning -- i'm probably -- shut up. you are a [ bleep ]! >> all right, rudy, hold that

thought. >> right? how do you know? >> what's the steering wheel? what is that? >> please let the story speak for itself. >> what was he doing? willie, i don't -- what was that? >> should have arrested him for a dui for that move, just all over the road. good lord. [ laughter ] >> it is one of those -- >> how did i miss these clips? >> the story will speak for itself, joe. >> yeah, but it's not like you can just sit there and go, "bitcoin took a 15%" -- i mean, willie, that's crazy, crazy stuff. >> when you see it all in one place, it really is. that was the least surprising revelation from another stunning day of testimony, that rudy giuliani perhaps, allegedly, had too much to drink on election night and served as the primary adviser that evening to the president of the united states. >> exactly. that might have been the

stunner, is that the president was taking advice from the drunk guy, from drunk rudy giuliani to wild claim of suitcases filled with bogus ballots. day two of testimony in the capitol hearings. bill barr portraying donald trump as being, quote, detached from reality. we'll have the key takeaways, and we'll speak with a member of the committee who led much of yesterday's hearing, congresswoman zoe lofgren of california. we're also watching the markets after yesterday's steep sell-off. futures are in the green ahead of a fed meeting aimed at fighting surging inflation. along with joe, willie, and me, we have former u.s. senator, now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill joins us. white house bureau chief at "politico" and the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire.

and attorney george conway, a contributing columnist for the "washington post." it's good to have you all on board. the second hearing into the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol, the house select committee made the case that donald trump had an inner circle of advisers telling him the truth, that the election was not stolen, but then he chose to believe another team of advisers led by, as the committee put it. the other stunner that came out of yesterday's hearing, what the committee called the big rip-off. the former president raised a quarter of a billion dollars off a defense fund that investigators say never existed. the committee accused trump of preying on his supporters. >> willie, there's -- >> that's his m.o. >> yeah, there's so much to get

to here. once again, the january 6th commission, committee, did not disappoint. i've got to say, the fact you have one trumper after another trumper after another trumper after another trumper, people who have invested their professional lives in a guy who they know is damaging the reputation, perhaps permanently, but they're still in there with him, they're the ones who are testifying. there are no liberal democrats here testifying about all the terrible things donald trump has done. these are people closest to him. these are people he hired. these are people he trusted. these are people who were with him until the very end. they're the ones saying time and time again in testimony that donald trump knew that all of these bogus arguments were lies. he was told it day in and day out, and he continued to move

forward with the lie, despite the fact he knew that these conspiracy theories didn't hold water. >> that's what jumped out to me. joe, again, for the second day, the unequivocal nature of the testimony from president trump's own advisers. i think i expected more hemming and hawing and maybe a half-hearted defense of president trump. perhaps to save their own hides, they sat down and told this committee everything, saying, we told him this election was clean. we told him it was not rigged. we told him it wasn't stolen. he stands alone with rudy giuliani and a couple of other crack pots. the other piece that jumped out at me, claire mccaskill, was if you are a trump supporter watching that hearing yesterday, maybe you weren't but maybe you heard about it, and you know that donald trump knew that this whole thing was a scam, that it was a lie, and first he sent you to the capitol, and now you're getting arrested, some of you, and going to prison, then he took $250 million of your money and put it in his pocket based

on something he knew was a scam, don't you feel duped at this point? you either went to prison or gave up a bunch of your money for a lie. >> the problem is, to feel duped, you have to have some self-blame, that you were stupid enough to go along with this nut. i don't think that that kind of reflection comes easily for folks. you know, it is fascinating to me, there's a couple things about that that really struck me. the first is, can you imagine how different history would have been, how lives would have been saved, how we wouldn't have this really inflection point in our democracy, if all of those trump people who we heard on tape yesterday, if in december of 2020, they would have come together and issued a joint statement? you know, all of them. instead, i can't do a ticker tape parade for these guys. just because they've been truthful at this point, they

allowed this to go on. the republicans on capitol hill allowed this to go on. they didn't stand up when they should have. it is really a lesson for the history books, that these people were so afraid of the consequences of saying the emperor wears no clothes, that they hid under their desks. look what happened. we find ourselves with a huge chunk of the country believing a complete fraud around whether or not our elections are counted right. >> you have especially in that case -- >> even after they left. >> -- bill barr. even after he left, he leaves. he gives this positive statement when he is leaving. then i believe when he is asked in march about trump, he said he'd vote for him again. i appreciate the opportunity to update you this afternoon, he wrote in his resignation department review of the voter fraud allegations in the 2020 election and how these allegations will continue to be pursued. he knew it was a lie. he said it was, quote, bullshit.

yet, he puts in departure a note about how we're going to continue pursuing these allegations that barr says repeatedly he knows is a lie. then he says later he'd vote for him again. that's just unpatriotic. i mean, i don't want to -- i don't want to get too melodramatic. i think it's sick. there's just no excuse. especially, it's always sick, but the way people in washington think, oh, i have to protect my career, don't really understand you protecting your career more than, you know, protecting the flag, protecting the constitution. barr's career is over. he was at the end of the career. he soiled his reputation to go back and work for trump. when he figured out that trump was crazy, his words, out of his mind, detached from reality, he still was sucking up to him,

even at the end. what was it worth for ya, bill? just what was it worth? i don't get it. george conway, you can talk about that if you'd like. i mean, i'd love to hear your overview of the hearing, though, but, man, barr, what a fascinating, what a fascinating character study in just corruption. >> well, it is amazing because, i mean, you know, the fact he would say that he'd still vote for the guy is utterly amazing. the irony is he did it more than the other ones did. because he actually did go out on december 1st, and he invited that "ap" reporter to lunch to say there was no "there" there in the election. got him in trouble with donald trump, and he yelled at him, "you must hate trump." he did that, i guess, at the behest, at least it was said in one of the books, of mitch

mcconnell, who was afraid of the georgia run-offs. again, it's still not good enough. i mean, all these other people remained silent and did not say, this has got to stop for the sake of the republic. to claire's point, it wasn't just in december 2020. this is the four-year story of the trump administration. pretending that this guy wasn't incompetent and deranged for four years. i mean, you heard all these rumblings about the 25th amendment early on. they all knew he was nuts. everybody knew he was nuts because he was nuts. >> yeah. >> and a pathological liar and somebody who, you know, couldn't be trusted and couldn't be trusted with the reins of the presidency. he didn't care about the country. he only cared about himself. that's the story for four years, and it always going to, you know, end up this way. >> it always was going to end up this way. that is the story of trump,

isn't it? joe, i mean, to hear bill barr talking about trump being detached from reality, you wonder why. i mean, that's a whole new level. that's not, "i disagree with you, sir." >> right. >> "this guy is crazy," is what he's saying to himself. how many times did that happen in the trump white house and nobody acted. >> this guy is crazy and, yes, given the opportunity, i'd vote for him again. i mean, is -- >> only under the penalty of perjury, when you're deposed, do you actually admit he is crazy. cult-like. here are some of the clips the committee played of its interviews with former attorney general bill barr and former acting deputy attorney general richard donoghue, explaining trump's refusal to accept reality, defeat. >> there was an avalanche of all these allegations of fraud that built up over a number of days, and it was like playing whack-a-mole. something would come out one day, and the next day it'd be

another issue. the early claims that i understood were completely bogus and silly and usually based on complete misinformation. i told them that the stuff his people were shoveling out to the public were -- was bull[ bleep ]. the claims of fraud were [ bleep ]. you know, he was indignant about that. i reiterated that they wasted a whole month on these claims on the dominion voting machines, and they were idiotic claims. and i specifically raised the dominion voting machines, which i found to be among the most disturbing allegations, disturbing in the sense that i saw absolutely zero basis for the allegations, but they were made in such a sensational way that they obviously were influencing a lot of people, members of the public, that

there was this systemic corruption in the system and that their votes didn't count and that these machines controlled by somebody else were actually determining it, which was complete nonsense. it was being laid out there, and i told him that it was -- it was crazy stuff and they were wasting their time on that. it was doing a great, great disservice to the country. >> i tried to, again, put this into perspective and try to put it in very clear terms to the president. i said something to the effect of, sir, we've done dozens of investigations, interviews, and it is not supported by the evidence. we've looked at pennsylvania, michigan, nevada. we are doing our job. much of the info you're getting is false. then i went into, for instance, this thing from michigan, this report of 68% error rate. reality is it was only 0.0063%

error rate, less than 1 in 15,000. so the president accepted that. he said, "okay, fine, but what about the others?" again, this gets back to the point that there were so many of these allegations, that when you gave him a very direct answer on one of them, he wouldn't fight us on it but he'd move to another allegation. >> jonathan lemire, this is not a celebration of profiles in courage. it's just the opposite, in fact. what we're saying is these guys knew, they're specifying in this testimony that everything donald trump and his closest people were saying was a lie and, yet, they didn't speak out publicly about it. but this testimony before this hearing shows exactly what they knew and what they believe, whether we're talking about dominion voting machines or italian satellites or the cyber ninjas. they thought it was ludicrous and insane, but apparently kept the opinions to themselves. >> they all had the opportunity to speak publicly in november, december, in january. none of them did.

i wanted to read this quote. it was an infamous quote now from the "washington post." they talked to a republican operative after what is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time, this republican operative told the "post." it goes on to say, it is not like he is plotting how to prevent joe biden from taking power on january 20th. he'll tweet about how the election was stolen, then he'll leave. that is the issue. mitch mcconnell did that for a time, too, claire. not just people in the white house but republicans in power, any of whom could have thrown their body in front of this and said, this has to stop. they all were under the belief, let him unwind and blow off steam. he doesn't like losing. instead, by indulging him, we got a moment that not only was democracy upheld on january 6th, but he's still around. he could still run again. those are the stakes of these hearings, right? >> absolutely. you know, i want to make sure we correct the record in one regard. barr didn't say he was detached

from reality. he said if he believed these things, he was detached from reality. that's a really important distinction to make because that goes to his state of mind and his criminal intent, which leads us to the grift. i don't believe that donald trump really thought this stuff that rudy giuliani and sidney powell and the other pretend lawyers were coming up with. i don't think he believed it. i don't think he was detached from reality. i think he was trying to commit a fraud. he was, a, trying to hold on to power and, b, he saw a way to keep it going, keep the grift going. i mean, if you look at the amount of money he raised, and i think that's going to be a secondary story that's going to continue to develop, where every penny of that $250 million went, and whether or not there was just blatant consumer fraud involved. that means a lot of attorney generals around the country have got some work to do if, in fact, this case continues to develop the way it did yesterday. >> you know, people close to him

say early on, oh, he's going to move past it after the election. when he didn't move past it, then it was like, well, he understands that if he ever admits he lost outright, the party would move on from him. this is the way he keeps the party engaged and keeps them on his side. the second he says, yeah, i lost, they move on and they find somebody else and throw him to the side. i thought it was interesting, george conway, when we were listening to the testimony about michigan, where trump accepted that but then moved on to another conspiracy theory. it reminds me of what willie and i have been talking about, about our friends. i'm sure you have many of these same friends growing up in republican politics like myself. you know, i'll get emails that say, well, what about this theory that i picked up from a crank website? then i'll patiently, because i've known them for decades,

explain why that is a conspiracy theory, and they'll go, oh, yeah, well, what about the box in georgia? you explain the box in georgia. okay. well, what about -- that's what donald trump was doing. it is whack-a-mole where conspiracy theorists, and that's exactly what donald trump was doing inside the white house. >> in the case of donald trump, as claire points out, it's criminal whack-a-mole. this shows criminal intent because he -- you know, if you go and think about what goes on in his own mind, i mean, it's a mismatch of lies, half truths, deceptions, and things that pop in his head. his mind is a mess. the fact of the matter is, this was -- you know, this was sociopathic lying to commit a massive fraud. he shows that by, you know, barr's line about there was never an indication of interest in what the actual facts were. he actually said that yesterday. then that last line that you

played from richard donoghue, where he said he'd move on to the next one. this was all a willful blindness to the truth. he refused to listen to anybody who was -- you know, all the people, how many people you can't keep track of at this point, about how he lost the election. he listened to drunk rudy instead. it was all part of, again, this sociopathic, predisposition to deny the truth. it began before the election. it's important to remember it began before the election when he was talking about how mail-in ballots were corrupt and this was going to be the most corrupt election ever. if he ever lost, it was going to be because of the corruption. he did that and attacked mail-in ballots, even though, we heard yesterday, stepien and kevin mccarthy went in to talk to him to say, hey, we rely on mail-in ballots, too. it all reminds me on something that lesley stahl talked about a couple years ago.

she told a story about how, off camera, she was talking to trump during, i think, the transition in 2016. and he bashed the press and stahl asked him, why do you keep doing that? trump said, i demean the press because if they write a bad story about me, people won't believe it. that's what he did with the entire 2020 election. he bashed the process before a vote was even cast. he bashed the process so that he could claim fraud if he lost. that, to me, is the proof, combined with everything else, all the individual people telling him he lost and his refusal to listen, it's just powerful, powerful evidence of criminal intent. >> you have to establish that lie, and on that foundation, he built the $250 million fraud,

according to the committee. we'll get back into some of the testimony yesterday. we want to now bring in a guest. this month's hearings especially personal for members of the capitol police force, many of whom were assaulted, of course, by people attacking the capitol on january 6th. that includes sergeant gonel, seen here on the right from last week's hearing. he was nearly beaten to death during the capitol attack and testified to the committee about that last summer. >> january 6th, for the first time, i was more afraid to work at the capitol in my entire deployment to iraq. i arrived at home nearly 4:00 a.m. on january 7th. i had to push my wife away from me because she wanted to hug me. i told her no because of all the chemicals that my uniform had on. >> sergeant gonell joins us now.

he is here, by the way, in his own capacity, not speaking for the capitol police department. good morning. it is great to have you with us. first, thank you for your service to the country. thank you for your service to the united states congress and for what you did on that day, january 6th. as i mentioned, you were in the hearing room last thursday nigt night for the first of the hearings. the video was shown, something you lived through. what was it like to watch the scenes again? >> good morning. thanks for having me. it's very hard to relive it, but i seen enough of it, plus i lived through them. i'm still around, so it's hard but i have to because it is personal to me, to hold these people accountable. i just want the american people to know exactly what was done. just because the former president orchestrated and

planned this whole thing. >> sergeant, it is important to tell that story because it has been so whitewashed by so many people over the last 18 months or so. some members of congress dismissing it as a little riot or a protest that got out of hand, or some people saying it was a regular tourist visit. what would you say to people who are skeptical, despite all the evidence, despite all the video, that this was as bad as it appears? >> well, those people, they never had talked to me about it. they never had, like, a minute so i could tell them or show them my injuries. i can assure you that was not a tour. those people, whoever assaulted me and my fellow officers, they should be in jail. they were not the good guys during that day. a apparently, to some people, they are the good guys because they're fighting for them to be

released from the department of justice. >> sergeant, can you speak to the way this day, january 6th, unfolded for you? did you feel prepared on that day, and once the crowds advanced on the capitol, what you experienced personally? >> i mean, january 6th was a culmination, just like the previous dpe previous guests were stating. this went on for months, planning, coordinating, telling people to be here, especially on january 6th. prior to january 6th, we deal with a lot of demonstrations on a daily basis. we had two, three, sometimes even ten demonstrations at the capitol, on capitol grounds. we never had an incident as big as this. at that time, we had the covid-19 protocol at the

capitol. yes, we didn't have enough people, but the president was around 16 blocks away. he had the authority to authorize the other federal agencies to come and assist and reinforce the capitol. that was not evensergeant, my us your injuries, some of them are permanent, and you're still working at the capitol? >> yes, ma'am. i'm on administrative duty capacity right now, yes. >> and just what are your thoughts on continuing to do your job, even protecting some of these people who want to pretend this didn't happen? >> i can only speak about my experience. it is disappointing to me that, like i was saying earlier,

instead of -- they fill their mouth with "back the blue," or "we are pro law and order and the rule of law," then they have a chance to hold the people accountable and, yet, they are fighting for the january 6th rioters and calling them patriots or political prisoners. yet, to them, i think we are considered the bad guys of january 6th because we stopped them from doing whatever they intended to do on the horrific day. >> which is ridiculous. sergeant gonell, thank you so much for your service. thank you for being on this morning. >> thanks for having me. we have much more ahead on yesterday's hearing. we'll play more of the testimony and hear more analysis from george conway and claire mccaskill. we'll be joined by congresswoman zoe lofgren who took the lead role in yesterday's january 6th committee hearing.

plus, senators have reached a bipartisan deal on gun safety, but now they're racing to write the legislation before the july 4th recess. the challenges there. democratic senator chris coons, who has been taking part in those talks, will be our guest. also this morning, pentagon press secretary john kirby will join us, as the biden administration prepares to announce more military aid to ukraine. as we go to break, bill barr is calling bs on the big lie, but nevertheless, he is willing to support the former president if he runs for office again. >> liz cheney said he is not fit for serve and should not ever be near the oval office again. do you agree with that? >> i certainly made it clear, i don't think he should be our nominee. i'm going to, you know, support somebody else for the nominee. >> if he is the nominee and your

choice is donald trump or whoever is running on the democratic side, would you vote for him? >> because i believe the greatest threat to the country is the progressive agenda being pushed by the democratic party, it is inconceivable that i wouldn't vote for the republican nominee. >> so even if he lied about the election and threatened democracy, as you write in your book, it's better than a democrat? >> it is hard to project what the facts are going to turn out to be three years hence. as of now, it is hard for me to conceive that i wouldn't vote for the republican nominee. (♪ ♪) (♪ ♪) bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression.

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what people were shoveling out to the public were [ bleep ]. that the claims of fraud were [ bleep ]. you know, he was indignant about

that. and i reiterated that they wasted a whole month on these claims on the dominion voting machines, and they were idiotic claims. i specifically raised the dominion voting machines, which i found to be among the most disturbing allegations, disturbing in the sense that i saw absolutely zero basis for the allegations, but they were made in such a sensational way that they obviously were influencing a lot of people, members of the public, that there was this systemic corruption in the system and their votes didn't count. that these machines controlled by somebody else was actually determining it, which was complete nonsense. it was being laid out there. i told them that it was -- it was crazy stuff and they were wasting their time on that. it was doing a grave, grave disservice to the country.

to be three years hence, but as of now, it is hard to see how i wouldn't vote for the republican nominee. >> willie, i'm reminded of -- >> my head hurts. >> -- actually "the simpsons." when homer left after leaving his stint at the convenient store, apu said he slept, stole, was rude to the customer and, yet, there goes the best damn convenient store employee i've ever had. so here, you have barr going, and i wrote it down, that he is full of b.s. >> i'm going to allow this. >> idiotic claims. what he did was a, quote, grave disservice to the country. he lied about the election. he tried to subvert democracy. he lived in an alternate reality. he was delusional. he should never be close to the reins of power again.

and, yet, yeah, i'll vote for him if he's the republican nominee. there are no words. >> he's not the first, by the way. i did not see that reference coming. impressive from you, joe. >> thank you so much. >> connecting that back to january 6th. but he's not the first. he won't be the last. we've heard other republicans who have written entire books about rescuing the republican party and all the problems with donald trump and how he almost brought democracy down with him, then saying, yeah, but if he is the nominee, i'd vote for him. you can say, i think, joe, it is an option, i might sit that out, might not vote, or, write in your mother, ronald reagan, whatever it is. but to see what we all see very clearly in black and white during this hearing, most of us have known it but now the whole country is seeing it with evidence from republican witnesses, from his own advisers, from trump's own advisers. to watch that and then say, bad, but i'd still like to see him in the white house again if it is a choice between him and any democrat, that -- everything

else you've just said falls apart. i doesn't matter you've criticized him publicly or privately if you'd say, i want to see him back in the white house. that's your definitive statement. the house committee also played testimony yesterday from former trump campaign manager bill stepien, who drew a blunt distinction between two separate sets of advice. he says the former president was receiving it during his final weeks in office. >> there were two groups. we call them kind of my team and rudy's team. i didn't mind being characterized as being part of team normal. along the way, i built up a pretty good reputation for being honest and professional. i didn't think what was happening was necessarily honest or professional at that point in time. >> what they were proposing, i thought, was nuts. the theory was also dom pleatly completely nuts. the italians, germans, different things floating around as to who

was involved. chavez and venezuela. somebody said there was software. philippines. all over the radar. >> did you share, mr. kushner, your view of mr. giuliani, your perspective on him, with the president? >> um, i guess -- yes. >> tell me what you said. >> basically not the approach i would take if i was you. >> if you're listening in the car, that was the voice of jared kushner. george conway, put all that together, all the things that you've been saying for years that were, of course, crazy, that were unlawful, and in the case of this january 6th attack and this big lie, almost overturned the election of the president of the united states. what do you think when you hear all these voices, some of whom i assume you know, now coming out in this testimony and speaking out against the president?

>> i'll never, ever be able to fully comprehend the inability of even a small critical mass of people to just come out and say, this guy is completely unfit for office. i just -- i still cannot fathom it to this day. they all knew. they all knew from the very beginning. i guess the answer that there is just too much, you know -- they have too much of a stake in it financially or, you know, politically. the point that claire makes, it takes a certain amount of -- it was hard for people to admit they were wrong. what donald trump does, he leads people so far over the horizon that, to walk yourself back after a while is really almost

impossible. he makes you -- he forces you to make a choice. every time you make a choice in favor of trump, you're kind of doubling down and you're going further away from the ability to say, okay, that was all a big mistake. you begin to look ridiculous after a while. that's how he corrupts people. that's how -- you know, it was sort of like -- >> one of the many ways. >> one of the ways, yes. james comey said, he eats at your soul. that's what he does to people. still, to this day, it astounds me, even though we've been watching it for four years. it is a phenomenon that is almost like a law of physics. >> yeah. you know, george, this is what i never understood. mika and i knew him. everybody knows we knew him for a very long time. you know, early on in the 2015 campaign, whenever we talked,

i'd be like, you know, you can't insult john mccain. you can't insult this. you can't -- you can't insult a war hero. you shouldn't be going after the press. you shouldn't be attacking megyn kelly. you shouldn't be attacking -- you know, just whatever. you shouldn't be, you know, saying what you say. >> this is gross. >> right. much was made of that. i remember the morning. december 3rd, 2015. >> yup. >> he comes on and talks about the muslim registry. i say on the air that day, there's no way i can ever support this guy, vote for this guy. this is germany 1933. >> for the record, just for the record, for the record, this was during the campaign. >> right. >> this was -- >> this was two or three months before the primary. now, i'm not saying that to say, oh, gee, i'm great. i'm saying that to say, it's

pretty damn simple. it's pretty damn black and white. i understand what you are saying. you know, you obviously -- you talk to this guy, as well, but what shocks me is there are no lines for any of these people. like, there are certainly lines for a group of former republicans who just said, no, can't do that. no, i can't go there. but, george, i mean, i understand that some people are so desperate to be around him, so desperate to have power, that they're going to do whatever they can to stay on board, but people you and i grew up with, people that you and i worked with, my god, why weren't there ever any lines? >> it's hard. i mean, because it's just hard to explain. i mean, if you look at his behavioral characteristics, and once you fully accept, it's easy to sort of deny at first.

i thought at some level that he was a human being who would, you know, ultimately conform in some manner to what a president could be. it was complete self-deception, but i thought that at first. then i wondered, why can't he do it? there is just a pathological impossibility. >> correct. >> of him doing it. then when you started to look at it and you realize it is black and white, as you say, then you start thinking, like, he does everything that you tell your children they shouldn't do. lie, cheat, and steal and bad mouth people to, you know, aggrandize himself, brag. all of these characteristics of, you know, a complete lack of honor, honesty, decency. he's everything you tell -- you should be telling your kids not

to be. yet, you know, he has the christian evangelical right in his pocket. he has millions of republicans who, you know, as you say, joe, there are people that you and i know and, yet, they refuse to accept the reality of who he is. they refuse to -- you know, they just basically say something like, well, all politicians lie. well, he's the world record leader in history of the most documented lies in history, i'm sure, given the pervasive lying and the degree who which it has been recorded by modern means of media. so you have to -- in other words, this he leads people into massive denial. once you get past a certain point, i guess it's hard for people to come back and say, i

was wrong. because you made the wrong turn about 50 times or 100 times by the time we get to today. >> yeah. >> that's the best way i can characterize it. >> denial is kind. he preys upon people with weak character. there are names i can say now that he knows he can get something on, then he controls them for the rest of time. >> runs them over. >> yeah. >> you're right, weak. >> really weak. >> you have -- i won't go down the list. >> i know. >> it's too long. claire mccaskill, i mean, there's obviously so much to say here, but i want to go back to barr for one second. here's a guy that could have stayed out of the trump white house and would have had a pretty good reputation, among at least republican lawyers and the legal community in washington, d.c. he decided to go back in regardless. then you hear all of the things he said about donald trump.

he lived in an alternate reality. he did damage to the country. he can't be trusted. then he says, yes, i'll vote for him again if he is the republican nominee. if there's not a greater indictment that i've heard about the negative partisanship in washington, d.c. in quite some time, i can't think of it. that's about as great of an indictment, how screwed up our two-party political system is. >> yeah. i remember when barr was nominated. i remember all of us talking about -- that folks we respected were telling us he is normal, speaking of team normal. he will help keep the president in a place where he can do the least damage. that was the commonly held belief on capitol hill. let's look at team normal for a minute, joe. as george said, the arc of what happened during the trump presidency. this is a classic tale as told as time of power over country.

of party over country. and team normal includes most of the elected republican officials in washington, d.c. all of them, all of them tried to ignore and deflect the lies and the terrible things that trump did. by the way, they go to meetings tat white house and come back laughing at how ignorant he was about basic public policy issues. they were all saying that he was a joke. they all kept quiet. then there was him setting up that this was going to be a rigged election, with malice aforethought, as we'd say in the criminal law. he set it up, that it'd be rigged. then he called them to washington and said it'd be wild. he lit the flame, and they all ran in fear that day for their lives. and then they all panicked. team normal panicked. for one brief, shiny moment,

they said what needed to be said about donald trump. lindsey graham said it. mitch mcconnell said it. kevin mccarthy said it. then, you know what happened? it faded. it faded. all of a sudden, it was power over country again. they sit there today still cowering in front of this obvious fraud. as george said, everything we don't want our kids to be. it is astounding to me that there haven't been a larger group of normal, team normal republicans that have been willing to stand up for their country at this moment. >> it has been. >> really sad. >> mika, the thing is, everything -- and i, of course, was there in '98 and '99. >> yeah. >> everything that republicans said about bill clinton, that the conservative establishment said about bill clinton, talking about character, he lacks the

character to be president of the united states, the impeachment of bill clinton, everything, add it all up, everything you heard from all of the republicans, the self-righteous indignation on why he -- >> they had a right to be upset. >> of course they did. >> yes. >> but everything they said about him, preachers said about him, everything that conserve conseratives said about him, everything they all said about him, suddenly they forget and it's okay if it is a republican. >> it's okay to just continue to -- >> it's okay. >> george conway, thank you very much. >> hypocrisy. >> thank you for the insight. we appreciate it. coming up, a risky gamble by democratic groups ahead of the midterms. we'll look at the candidates

getting support now in hopes of better matchups in november. and one of the most watched senate races this fall will be in georgia. democratic senator raphael warnock is seeking his first full term. he is our guest next hour. plus, we'll get an update on the war in ukraine. and the brutal fight for the donbas region in the east. that's all ahead on "morning joe." >> you can take this job and restaff it. >> giddy up, dad. >> he slept, he stole, he was rude to the customers, still, there goes the best damn employee the convenient store ever had. from prom dresses to workouts

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beautiful shot. >> 54 past the hour. >> can you imagine living in mika's condo there, willie? never lets anyone up there, but what a view, huh? >> she got a good deal. she got a penthouse apartment in her deal. you and i got unlimited alf merchandise at the store. >> the alf pogs, i collected all of them. griffin, when he was still here, got me the last two. i want to go back to the shot. >> no. >> the only time -- she's let me go up there one time, and it was to move the satellite dish. >> yes. >> i had to move it west. she wanted to see the steelers and chargers game one afternoon. it was like at 4:30. it was snowing. it was awfully cold.

>> okay. >> but i turned it, then when i came back down, she made me put the slippers on the shoes because she didn't want me to mess up the floor. >> not me at all. >> that's how she rolls. stocks rose after an intense sell-off. >> tough. >> the major averages are hammered by data showing inflation is getting worse. meanwhile, the fed kicks off its two-day policy meet meting meeting today. the fed could raise rates. bitcoin is hovering near $22,000. the world's largest cryptocurrency yesterday briefly fell below $21,000, its lowest level since december 2020. >> let's bring in senior markets correspondent, cnbc's dominic chu. thanks so much. >> where do i begin? >> let's talk yesterday, a brutal day. you obviously are getting into bear territory.

looking rougher in the coming weeks because interest rates are going to keep going up. >> yeah, we're busy in not a good way across the river here in new jersey. we've been watching all these things. you're seeing all the headlines right now. this is all very much tied to this idea that the federal reserve is on a campaign to tamp down inflation. but can they do so, can they effectively do so without sending the american economy and, by extension, parts of the global economy into an economic contraction or recession? traders and investors for the last several weeks, if not months now, have been becoming more pessimistic with each passing day about this idea that we can somehow solve those problems without putting the american economy into a recession. for that reason, the hardest parts of the market that have been hit have been the ones that are the most economically

sensitive. the ones that do well when the economy is actually doing well. the places that are actually doing better on a relative basis are the ones that don't need the economy to do anything for them to do well. that's consumer staples companies. people always want to buy toothpaste and toilet paper and cleaning products regardless of the economy. the issue right now is going to come down to whether or not the federal reserve buy raising interest rates by -- we won't know until tomorrow -- but if the discussion is racing interest rates by three quarters of a percent at the policy meeting that kicks off today and resolves by tomorrow, can that do enough to wrap inflation or keep it under wraps without pushing the economy into a recession? that's the big key right now. >> boy, that's going to be tough. cnbc's dom chu, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. good luck today. take a deep breath. it'll be another wild ride. willie, you know, i think everybody that has watched this

show for more than a week understands that, you know, i'm not the smartest finance guy. when i got out of college, my dad said, i'll buy you three stocks, $100 each. i chose delorean motor company. >> wow. >> seemed like good bets at the time. >> the car that opened? >> opens up, "back to the future." >> i like that. >> i thought it was -- >> john delorean? >> you predicted the interview. you said, get me pets.com. that was a long time before pets.com existed. >> exactly. my dad said, joe, doesn't exist. so you led right into my next point. even though i don't know much about the economy, i remember back in 2008, early part of 2008, i believe the "wall street journal", i kept reading about credit default swaps. i said, i don't get it.

"financial times," "new york times," "wall street journal," it didn't make sense to me, how you move this stuff around and you're just moving bad debt around. but i finally said, well, these smart people must know something that i don't. well, here we are. of course they didn't. here we are, over the past year or two, i'm like, crypto. i don't really get it. it's not connected to anything. these nfts, these, like, monkey memes for, like, a billion dollars that celebrities are -- i don't get it. and, you know, spacs, and i go, what is a spac? what is it connected to? what is bitcoin? ends up, they're not really -- bitcoin is not really connected to anything. so once again -- and we find this out every 15, 10 years. the market is still the market,

and stocks are still connected to things with real value. if you're not connected to things with real value, yeah, you can make a quick buck. people have made billions and billions of dollars. but at some point, you can only sell tulips for so much. the dutch economy crashes. >> yeah. i mean, it is one of those things. i remember in 2004/'05, people i knew saying, yeah, you can get a house but you don't have to pay for it. huh. how does that work exactly? you pay some way down the line, and it is all going to be fine. that brought the economy to its knees. i mean, it is a layman's point of view, admittingly, but same for crypto. how does it work? what is it rooted? there are tens of thousands of the different cryptocurrencies out there, many of which will fall by the wayside. as we've seen them collapse, jonathan, we've heard speculators say, well, it was a high-level game for people to play. but there are millions of people in this country who bought into the story and who have invested

in them. some will stick around. they may make people money in the long run, we'll see. as they've collapsed, a lot of regular people who were not big speculators or financial swingers, you know, they've lost a lot of money. >> in reminds me of my bet on new coke, similar to what joe did there. >> play the long game on that. >> hoping it'll make a comeback. you're right, we talked to a colleague from cnbc on "way too early," and she made the point, as well. for people a lot of money in the markets, perhaps this was a hobby, experiment. but regular folks put a lot into this, and they're really panicking. it undermines the overall confidence right now in the markets. we are seeing potentially into a bear market. we know that there are worries, tremendous worries about inflation, prices at the pump only going up. past $5 a gallon on average. that continues to look like it'll swirl.

peak season is seven weeks away, mid to late july. we'll hear from chairman powell tomorrow. interest rates expected to go up more than first anticipated to try to combat inflation. it is hard on the american consumer right now, and certainly it is hard politically, as well. even if the forces are outside of the control of the white house, the party in power will take the punishment. democrats and president are seeing poll numbers fall by the day. >> willie, maybe social security -- it's just a conservative in me, but i tell my kids, if something seems to be too good to be true, it's too good to be true. if something doesn't make sense, there is a reason. again, you look at, like, cryptocurrency. i've read repeatedly. what is this connected to? what stops it from falling off the edge of the cliff? why is it going up? not to repeat myself, but the same with the nfts. a lot of this stuff just doesn't

make sense. yeah, billionaires have dabbled and lost some money, but think about a lot of middle-class americans who threw tons of money into this stuff thinking it have the future, who lost the money. >> it is a game or hobby to rich people. they can afford to have the game or hobby. most of us can't. again, some of these may survive. this may become the currency of the future. right now, a lot is collapsing under its own weight. >> yeah. i mean, originally, it made sense. let's be really blunt. if you're trying to move money illegally, okay, i would guess bitcoin would make sense. if you are a schoolteacher in des moines and you're trying to make investment, i mean, again, not that moving money ill heelly is the right thing to do, i'm just saying, i can understand. if a criminal network is going to move stuff around, i guess they done want to do it through

banks. from there, you have something that millions and millions of people are investing in and losing money. it's really sad. >> crazy. it's just about five minutes past the top of the hour. we want to turn back to yesterday's hearing on the january 6th attack. we learned how former president trump raisd millions of dollars by pushing the big lie. the panel demonstrated how the trump campaign told supporters their donations would go toward fighting legal challenges related to the 2020 election. in reality, millions of dollars went elsewhere. >> the trump campaign sent millions of email to trump supporters, sometimes as many as 25 a day. the emails claimed the, quote, left-wing mob was undermining the election, implored supporters to, quote, step up to protect the integrity of the

election, and encouraged them to, quote, fight back. but as the select committee demonstrated, the trump campaign knew these claims of voter fraud were false. yet, they continued to barrage small dollar donors with emails, encouraging get to donate to something called the official election defense fund. the select committee discovered no such fund existed. >> i don't believe there is actually a fund called the election defense fund. >> is it fair to say election defense fund was another marketing tactic? >> yes. >> tell us about these funds as marketing ttactics. >> just the topic mattered. where money could potentially go. how money could potentially be used. >> the claims the election was stolen were so successsuccessfu. $250 million was raised. nearly $100 million in the first week after the election. in 2020, trump created the save

america pac. the save america pac made millions in contributions to pro-trump organizations, including $1 million to meadows' conservative partnership institute. $1 million to america first policy institute. $204,857 to the trump hotel collection. over $5 million to event strategies inc., which ran president trump's january 6th rally on the ellipse. >> all of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by a bold and radical left democrat, which is what they're doing. >> the evidence developed by the committee highlights how the trump campaign aggressively pushed false claims to fundraise. telling supporters it'd be used to fight voter fraud that did not exist. the emails continued through

january 6th, even as president trump spoke on the ellipse. 30 minutes after the last fundraising email was sent, the capitol was breached. >> we're going to get to our guests. i guess everyone, you know, is watching to see if merrick garland comes up with charges or what will happen, but isn't there a class action lawsuit or something that could come from thousands of people sending millions of dollars toward a big lie, then that money used for other things? >> ended up just being a marketing employ. >> seems like an opportunity for people to, i guess if they understand that this has happened to them, that could be an issue. >> they were lied to. >> joining us now, co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei. pulitzer prize-winning columnist and editor for the "washington post," eugene robinson. and denver wiggleman, who served

as an adviser for the january 6th house select committee. good to have you bawl this morning. >> jim vandehei, we've gone through some of what was said yesterday. i'm curious, your take on one trump insider, one trump staffer after another saying, we tried to get him to stop lying. we kept putting the facts in front of him, and he kept pushing us aside. >> there's a lot of republicans and democrats wondering why yesterday's hearing wasn't the primetime hearing. it was compelling. it was damning. it was in the words of basically everyone other than an intoxicated rudy giuliani, standing around and saying, you don't have the evidence you're saying is wrong. it is morally wrong. it is wrong based on the facts we're seeing. barr, jared kushner, stepien, all these people saying

non-sensual sensical. you have liz cheney and others saying there should be criminal indictments that flow from this. it is just shocking, the number of people who are around him so close, so intimate, who said this is nuts. and the reason that this matters, i think a lot of people ask, whenever we have our minds made up, the reason it matters is it's not team normal they described in the hearings yesterday that will be around donald trump if he runs and wins the presidency again. it'll be more people like team rudy. you're not going to have a white house with a lot of restraints like you saw in the early years of the first run of the trump presidency. it'll be much more like rudy, like trump, people who are backing his views, his high lye lies and broach.

that could have massive consequences for the country. i do think the hearings matter, and i think yesterday was very, very compelling. >> congressman, you were adviser to the january 6th select committee. i noted you've announced just in the last few days that you've left the republican party. can you tell us about that decision? >> yeah. i mean, you know, i was one of the first to see the actual meadows text messages. i have to tell you, when you look at that, it is very difficult to stay in a party that's embraced fantasy over facts. right beforehand, mika and joe were talking about it, and i thought it was crushing, about economics. it feels like it is a very good way to make money, is push that fantasy into the ecosystem. it's scary when you see the 12-page manifesto president trump put out yesterday. it's still pushing the fantasy into the ecosystem where they're going to raise money. you're seeing it now, money can be made in a very bizarre way by pushing conspiracies into the co system, your voter universe, and

leveraging that to run for office. almost seemed like the manifesto was a campaign announcement by trump yesterday. >> congressman, were you surprised by anything as you worked with the committee, how clear cut the case appears to be, the way it's been presented anyway? that donald trump knew he lost te election, continued to perpetuate the lie, and stood down on january 6th and didn't call in any governmental agency or anything to protect the united states capitol. when you looked at the evidence, were you shocked by it? >> i was definitely shocked by the language in some of the evidence i saw. especially not just text messages but emails and all of the evidence in the documents the committee compiled. then to merge all that data together. you're talking about billions of bits of data, right? you're talking about an incredible amount of data you have to merge and analyze. you see language of people who

bought completely into the big lie. they were not afraid of that. they weren't afraid to say, this is true. there's democrats that drink blood in basements. we need to put people in gitmo. there's watermarks, people burning ballotballots. all this was pushed out there, and so many believed it. the midterms are coming up. you'll have individuals voting op that fantasy. that's something we have to fight. in the war between facts and fantasy, there is no guarantee that facts win. i think the fight is just starting. again, it's worrisome for people like me in the intelligence business, seeing people completely bought in on this fantasy. >> gene, one of the jobs of the committee, what it is trying to do, is connect donald trump's pushing of the lie to the actions of the people on january 6th. the committee ended yesterday's hearing with a video of trump supporters repeating the former president's election fraud conspiracy theories on january 6th.

let's listen. >> i know exactly what is going on right now. they think they're going to [ bleep ] us out of our vote and put [ bleep ] biden in office. it ain't [ bleep ] happening today, buddy. >> have you voted? >> yes, sir. >> how'd it go? >> voted early. went well. except for the -- can't really trust the dominion software all over. >> we voted. right at the top right-hand corner of the dominion machine, there was a wi-fi signal with five bars. that definitely -- they stole that from us twice. we're not doing it anymore. we're not taking it anymore. whatever happens, we're not laying down again. >> it didn't work. >> it absolutely -- >> trust the system. >> 200,000 people that weren't even registered voted.

430,000 votes disappeared from president trump's tally. >> you can't stand there and tell me that it worked. >> i don't want to say that what we're doing is right. but if the election is being stolen, what is it going to take? >> those are the words of trump supporters on january 6th. we heard about the dominion voting machines, italian satellites. we heard about cyber ninjas. all of which, if you watched the testimony yesterday, attorney general barr and others said, i'll paraphrase, were complete b.s. >> people believed the b.s. the people who stormed and sacked the capitol on january 6th, 2021, did so because they believed the b.s. being put out, principally by president trump, others around him, team rudy.

look, this is, you know, incitement to riot. it was, i think, a seditious conspiracy. this was also fraud. because they raised $250 million on the bogus claims that people around the president knew were completely bogus, were untrue. you know, the question of criminal intent is going to come up, at least i hope it comes up. i hope merrick garland was paying close enough attention to that hearing to be, you know, taking notes about the president's criminal intent. you can say, you know, he's nuts. he's crazy. he's out of touch with reality. but if you actually look at what he said and did, this all -- this was all intentional. he started it before the election. he continued it through the

election. his aim was to cling to power and keep the grift going. to keep the money flowing in. he was extraordinarily successful at that time. it is -- i thought yesterday's hearing was stunning. i'm sorry, but i can't jump to my feet and applaud bill barr. barr at least did say something after the election. he did say he saw no fraud. all these other people around the president, around president trump, who still said nothing, who knew this stuff was all bogus, who knew all along how unfit he was for the presidency and who said nothing. i'm sorry. i'm not going to applaud them. i'm not going to clap for them. >> former congressman

wriggleman, it is jonathan lemire. supporters perhaps realizing they'd be defrauded. let's remember, of course, steve bannon was indicted for taking money from trump supporters to build the wall in mexico, that didn't go anywhere. he is still a beloved figure in maga world and good with the president again. we had a little disagreement last night on the committee. bennie thompson didn't believe any criminal charges would stem from the hearing about former president trump. he received pushback from his colleagues, later amended his statements. what do you think? is that a possible path here from the aftermath of this committee? we know attorney general garland said he is watching carefully. >> i heard about separation of powers, things like that, making sure we do stuff that's sober. politically expedient and correct. i think what you're seeing is as

more evidence is going to the committee, the members having difficulty parsing exactly what they need to do as far as going forward. do we suggest, you know, to the department of justice that charges be brought, that there is some criminal intent here? i think when garland said they were watching it closely, i don't know the committee needs to. once they turn over the evidence and the doj as the evidence with what they have in their executive authorities, they'll be able to merge more evidence. want to tell the american public this. congress is limited in the data they can receive. they are counting on the doj to merge what other data they have with the interview, the metadata, text messages, records testimony committee has to merge it into a emergency investigation. i think that's what they're looking at. they're going back and forth, trying to figure out what they want to do. i don't think it changes the facts as far as what's happening with the evidence and what we saw yesterday. i want to say something really quick from mr. robinson.

$250 million, i believe, is the floor. there is going to be more money we're tucking about coming up. when you looking at the financial aspect, $250 million is a small number on the amount of money that flows through this ecosystem. >> jim vandehei, i want to develop on gene's point. these with people only spoke after. really, is there anyone who has come clean on trump without having to be deposed under the penalty of perjury? i can't think of anyone. maybe there is. when you think about it, we're talking about people who were working around a guy committing potentially criminal acts, talking about getting dirt on a foreign -- on a political opponent from a foreign leader. talking about a guy ripping off americans of millions of dollars. trying to steal an election.

think of all the people who died during covid because of stupidity, because of someone being completely detached from reality, as bill barr put it, when he was speaking under the penalty of perjury, when he had to tell the truth. is there anybody who has come out of the administration and said all these things were happening, until they had to? >> i can't think of any. certainly anyone prominent who has done it. it speaks to our species in some ways, like what lemmings people can be and how tribal our politics has become. you talk to the same people that i do. one of the things i'm always trying to tell people around in terms of how peopleternally saw trump, that people outside of washington and new york done believe, is when we talk to these people, they're telling us he is nuts, shouldn't be there. we're trying to control him. in public they're saying, great guy. love donald trump. >> yeah. >> you see a little of that

always in politics, but never like this. people that think the person they're working for or supporting is morally corrupt or dangerous and they believe that, they'll tell you that, then they stick with him or stick with him rhetorically in public. now, it's come to define most of the party. look at the races that are taking place this year. one of the litmus tests for the campaigns, especially if you want donald trump's endorsement, is do you believe what he was saying is true? that he is the rightly elected president of the united states. candidates are running on this. even if trump doesn't run, and i think he will run, the legacy live on. most republicans you see runing for often are more like donald trump than the ones from five years ago, the paul ryans and

mitt romneys. the legacy lives on. you're talking about the conspiracy of the $250 fited of that. for a class-action lawsuit, the people defrauded have to dare. i don't think they care. the money goes to the system. you don't just see this in politics. one thing, you look at the church. why does donald trump have so much power? evangelical leaders and, therefore, their flock. many christians believe he is a biblical figure? it's astonishing. it is ripping apart many of the churches because it is a divide, a tribalization of churches. it's not just inside the white house. it's a hell of a lot wider than that. >> it is. jim, briefly, before you go, tell us about the article in axios this morning, about democratic groups funding and

promoting far-right candidates? >> claire mccaskill did this in 2012. nancy pelosi's pack doing this. they're looking at races they think it'll take a moderate to win and putting in money. california '22, nancy pelosi's pac trying to elect a trump conservative. why? they believe a moderate republican has a heck of a lot better chance of winning. to a lesser extent, it happened in pennsylvania. this is a belief in some places that these fringe candidates are more conservative, the trumpian candidates won't win. hillary clinton thought about this. how do we prop up donald trump when no one thought he could win? they thought he was the least electable. probably an upside to the

strategy like this one also a downside. >> jim vandehei, great to see you. thanks. before we let you do, congressman, give us a prix view of what you think we may see in the next couple days and into the week as the case is rolled out by the select committee? >> you saw on the first day of the hearings, you saw them break down the timeline, giving them an overview of where they'll go. there are five or six investigative teams that actually do the investigaive push. they talked about the timeline, then financial crimes. i shouldn't say crimes yet but financial issues. then the push toward trump's inner circle, people telling him it was false, wasn't fact, it was fantasy. now, i think you'll see them build the case from the ground up. you'll look at oath keepers, rally-goers, state legislators, alternate electors. all this will happen over the

next few days and next week. at the end, they'll put all of that together, every specific group from trump -- the people around trump, trump family, the financial problems that are there, the financial issues that you have. they'll look at the day of, the rally-goers, they'll look at the organizers. that i going to put it together. there is one word the american public hopes they can actually push into the public ecosystem, and that's coordination. if there is one word the american public should be looking at through this proceeding, it is coordination. >> this was a plot and not a riot that got out of control. former congressman wriggleman, we appreciate it. for from the january 6th committee hearing, incluing the campaign manager and mccarthy trying to convince the president mail-in ballots weren't a bad

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31 past the hour. intense fighting continues in the streets of a critical ukrainian city, now at the heart of russia's invasion. nbc news foreign correspondent molly hunter reports. >> reporter: this morning, severodonetsk is still standing, but all three bridges into the city destroyed.

there is no way out. president zelenskyy says the battle for the donbas region will go down in military history as one of the most brutal battles in and for europe. lacking the heavy artillery needed, ukrainian soldiers are engaging troops in street battles in the key eastern city. but even as losses mount for ukraine, zelenskyy says, we are still beating back russian forces. the head of ukraine's armed forces says that russia has ten times more firepower than ukraine. but additional help may be on the way. sources telling nbc news the biden administration could soon announce more military aid for ukraine, including additional weapons and equipment. it's badly needed. after severodonetsk, russian artillery is pun elling lysychansk. there is nothing good happening here, balia says, and it is not

clear how this will end. where there is no longer fighting in suburbs of kyiv, a stark contract. bucha was left 2 1/2 months ago, with some of the most brutal scenes this war has seen. several more civilian bodies uncovered from a mass grave. police say they were tortured, shot in the knees, their hands tied with tape. the recovery here is slow going. a long road. returning comes first. resilience, says military psychologist natalia, is not in short supply. how do you heal a town like this? how do you possibly start? where do you start? >> people would like to clean everything from russia. >> reporter: just shrub it, get it all away? >> absolutely. >> nbc's molly hunter with that report. just ahead, we'll speak live with pentagon press secretary john kirby about new aid to ukraine that could be announced

any day now. much needed. coming up, we'll have much more from yesterday's hearing on the january 6th attack, including testimony from a trump-appointed prosecutor that debunks a conspiracy theory pushed by rudy giuliani. a bipartisan group of senators are working to get their deal for gun legislation on paper, but one big issue is threatening to stall any momentum for getting a bill passed. plus, democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia is our guest. next on "morning joe." from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences.

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president trump made numerous claims regarding fraudulent voting practices in philadelphia, including the claim that dead people were voting. in fact, mr. giuliani told pennsylvania state legislators that 8,000 dead people voted in

pennsylvania. you investigated those claims of voter fraud. can you tell us what you found? >> not only was there not evidence of 8,000 dead voters voting in pennsylvania, there wasn't evidence of 8. we took seriously every case that was referred to us, no matter how fantastical, no matter how absurd, and took every one of those seriously, including these. >> there wasn't even of eight. that was former philadelphia city commissioner al schmidt, the only republican on the election board during the 2020 election. testifying yesterday before the house committee that's investigating the january 6th attack. also testifying yesterday, a former trump-appointed u.s. district attorney from georgia who also debunked a widespread conspiracy theory about election fraud. bjay pak said the, quote,

suitcase full of ballots, he was asked by william barr to investigate that claim. >> we found that the suitcase full of ballots, the alleged black suitcase that was being seen pulled from under the table was actually an official lock box where ballots were kept safe. we found out that there was a mistake in terms of a misunderstanding, that they were done counting or tallying ballots for the night, and the partisan watchers that was assigned by each of the respective parties were announced and sent home. once they realized the state, someone from the secretary of state's office indicated, no, you need to go ahead and continue counting. once they packed up the lock box full of ballots, they brought back the official ballot box again and continued to tally the ballots from the lock box. >> again, mr. pak, a point

appointee. he also told the committee giuliani only played a selectively edited portion of the video during a georgia senate hearing, fueling a social media campaign targeting election workers. >> the fbi interviewed the individuals depicted in the videos who purportedly were double, triple counting the ballots, and determined nothing irregular happened in the counting. the allegations by mr. giuliani were false. >> joining us now, democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia. he's author of the new book titled "a way out of no way," a memoir of truth, transformation, and the new american story. senator, good morning. it is good to see you here in new york with us. >> good morning. thank you. >> want to get to the book in a moment. i also want to ask what you've seen in this hearing room over the last several days, and what you think the stakes are, why this is an important exercise for this committee. >> nothing less than our

democracy is at stake. thanks, great to be here. we've got work to do. democracy is not a noun, it's a verb. it's the reason why, you know, i decided to run. my whole life has been about ministry. i knew early on i'd go into the pastor. i think the people of georgia found their voice, and they stood up in unprecedented numbers. on january 5th, georgia sent its first african-american senator to the united states senate, and its first jewish senator, in one foul spoon. i feel like martin luther king jr. and rabbi herschel were smiling. they marched together in selma, with this vision. all the people of georgia stood up. we have to take serious what happened january 6th, after all.

the violent attack that we saw on our capitol from voter suppression bills all over the country, including georgia. january 6th happened. anti-semitic signs, xenophobia, traffic through the capitol, police officers were brutalized, people died, all driven by the big lie. that certain voices don't count. that you don't get to decide the future of the country. january 6th happened. it tells us something about our complicated family story, our american story that we may not want to hear. january 5th also happened. a kid who grew up in public housing got elected to the united states senate. so what's at stake right now, we have to decide if we're the america of january 6th or the america of january 5th. are we going to give into the forces of division and demagoguery in our country, or are we going to push closer to

the ideals? >> you're right. so much of the story of 2020 took place in georgia. that was sort of the center. on the presidential side, when president trump called secretary of state raffensperger and said, find 11,000 votes and overturn the election. why did you make the -- you write about this in your book, senator, from being a prominent pastor at ebenezer, one of the most prominent churches in the country, where martin luther king was pastor himself, why did you say i'm going to leave that life, perhaps temporarily, and go jump into this arena of politics, where it is ugly and it can be tough on families and everything else that politics is. why did you do that? >> well, to be sure, i have not left my pulpit. >> yeah. >> i still preach most sundays. but not only am i a pastor, my dad was a pastor, mom is a pastor. my dad was an older father, born

in 1917, world war ii veteran. he also had two jobs. he was a junk man. he salvaged junk cars, loaded them on the back of a truck, the mechanisms of which he designed himself without a degree of engineering. when i think about it now, i marvel at how he stacked these cars on top of another. that's how he took care of his family. the junk man who lifted broken cars during the week lifted broken people on sunday morning, convincing them of their value. inspired by him, i was able to finish morehouse college, go to seminary, become the pastor of ebenezer church. i've been working for years on issues that broken people and broken communities are experiencing, everything from health care to voting rights to making sure hard working people can have a livable wage and find a way for their children to pursue the american dream.

with some convincing, i decided to get involved in something as messy as politics. to be clear, i'm not in love with politics. i'm in love with change. i am willing to be engaged in this work with the hope that we might create a future that embraces all our children. >> just as you have begun to settle in on capitol hill, you have to run again. you won your primary. now you're facing herschel walker in the primary election. he is, of course, a football star and icon in that state. all of the things we're talking about here perhaps pale in comparison to the fact that people in georgia and across the country are paying a lot of money now for things like gas and groceries. what is your message to those people who say, look, we've got a democratic president, democratic senate, democratic house, and all these problems are taking place on their watch and we need some change? what do you say to that voter? >> i think as people are sitting around the kitchen table right now, they're trying to figure out their problems. they're not thinking of the

politicians' problems. i think the problem with politics so often is we're thinking about the politics, who is up, who is down, who is in, who is out? i'm fou kusfocus on the struggl ordinary people. i know what it is like to try to figure out how you're going to pay your tuition. i'm number 11 out of 12 in my family. i go back to my church every sunday morning so i can hear the concerns of ordinary people, which is why i introduced a bill to lower the cost of insulin. i come from a state where 1 in 12 people have diabetes. as a pastor, i've been there with families when the diabetes has gotten out of control and someone has to have an amputation or go to dialysis. we're witnessing big pharma gouge the cost of insulin. a drug that has been around over 100 years. consumers are paying record prices at the pump, but oil and gas companies are enjoying

record profits. >> what to you do about that? people in marietta, alpharetta, albany, they want to know what you'll do. >> you have to be engaged and work on these issues. i'm also focused on lowering the cost of prescription drugs. i've introduced a bill that would suspend the federal gas trax. in the meantime, while we work on this short term, we have got to embrace a future that is sustainable. i introduced a bill called the clean commute for kids act, which is literally focused on greening our yellow school buses. we've got a company down in fort valley, georgia, that's leading the way with electric school buses, sustainable energy. so there's no silver bullet for all of these. we've got to be focused on the issues. make sure we're focused on the

people, not the politicians. >> inflation, obviously, front of mind, but there are other challenges right now facing democrats. you mentioned that georgia is one of a number of states that changed voting laws, that tightened access to the ballot in the wake of the big lie and all we saw on january 6th. you spoke passionately about the need for federal legislation to affect the voting rights. didn't go anywhere. speak to your frustration now as the fact that this congress, with democrats in control of both houses of congress, democrats control the white house, but nothing got done to protect the franchise, voters who put you and president biden in office. >> i take the long view. i was john lewis' pastor. i think often about him. i think about a young john lewis crossing that edmund pettus bridge. state troopers on the other side. there was no reason for him to think he could win. yet, he crossed that bridge.

i presided over his funeral. when i was getting ready to do that, i was running for the senate at the time, i asked myself, what was john lewis thinking when he was facing the formidable odds? what i'm clear about, he wasn't thinking about getting a presidential medal of freedom. he didn't think that at the end of his life, three end of his life three presidents would show up on both sides of the aisle because they respected his voice. he was just trying to live to fight the next day, and through some stroke of destiny, he was able to bend the arc a little bit closer to justice. so these are difficult times, but as john lewis' pastor, i don't have a right to give up. i'm going to keep fighting the good fight. we raised the issue around voting rights. i think it could have died last summer had i not pushed so hard. i'm going to keep pushing because i believe a vote is a kind of prayer for the world we desire for ourselves and for our children. i think that democracy is the

political enactment of a spiritual idea, that all of us have a spark of the define. we ought to have a voice in our democracy. we have to fight for this. this is our democracy. it doesn't belong to the politicians. some of us get the sacred trust of representing the people for a time. it belongs to the people, and i think when we stand up, we win. we don't know when it breaks through. think about how long voting rights was filibustered and civil rights, literally for decades, and yet people kept the faith. they believed that they could make a way out of no way, which is a phrase, by the way, that's deep in the culture of the black church. you're not in the black church long before the preacher says god makes a way out of no way. it's a phrase born of struggle and it's my honor to continue that struggle. senator, mika has a question for you. mika. >> senator, i know you have been working on the issue of voter suppression for a very long time, and i'm wondering what your thoughts are to what we're

hearing during the january 6th committee hearings? >> it's very concerning, and i think, look, there's some things that transcend political party. the four most powerful words in a democracy are the people have spoken, and the thing i love about america is we have messy, big, rambunctious arguments, about guns and butter, health care and a whole range of concerns. but at the end of the day, the people get to speak, and the problem right now is that we're seeing a crop of transactional politicians who are much more committed to their own power than they are to the idea of democracy. i believe in democracy. i think that among mere mortals it is the best solution we have to abuse, to tyranny, it gives us a chance to fight for a future that embraces all of us, and i'm going to stand up for

it. >> let me ask you, senator, about your opponent, herschel walker, we have been talking this morning about donald trump's willingness to tell lies. it seems herschel walker gets caught in one lie after another. he has lied repeatedly. atlanta journal constitutional uncovered repeated lies about being in law enforcement, about being in the fbi, and several others. does he have the character to be a united states senator given that and all the other information about his past, and is he qualified to be a united states senator? >> well, i think that's something the people of georgia get to decide. they have a real choice in front of them. it's going to be a long campaign, and the question really is who's ready to represent the people of georgia in the united states senate at such a critical time in our country's history, and i'm proud of the work that i've done

because the people of georgia stood up. we passed the single largest tax cut. >> i mean, excuse me, senator, i understand all of that, but we're all asking ourselves, why didn't people stand up earlier and call out donald trump's lies? why did people just turn the other cheek, let him continue lying and not call him out earlier? i mean, here it's very clear that herschel walker has trouble with the truth. shouldn't you call him out for that in this campaign on georgia's future? >> you know, sunday is father's day, and i think often about my dad. he said, look, and i think he said to me one day after i mowed a neighbor's lawn and didn't do such a good job. son, when somebody hires you to do a job, do the job they hired you to do, and so i'm going to stay focused on my job. we passed the single and largest tax cut for middle and working

class citizens in american history. i found a way to work on both sides of the aisle to help farmers in georgia get their products to market in europe. and right now i'm focused on lowering costs for ordinary americans. that's the work the people of georgia hired me to do, and i'm going to do it as long as they give me the honor to do it. >> gene robinson is with us and has a question for you. gene. >> senator warknock, georgia is a fascinating state, in many ways, ground zero during the 2020 election. it's a state that sent you and jon ossoff to washington. it's also the state that sends marjorie taylor greene to washington. how do you speak to the georgians who are on the other side of that divide? or do you try to speak to them? >> well, the issue you point to, i think, it transcends any single individual. we have seen a kind of

gerrymandering all across our country that creates a systemic issue that i think sells people up in a certain kind of bag. what we've got to do is focus on the health of the democracy, make sure that every eligible voter's voice is heard and that their vote matters, and i think we demonstrated that in our race in georgia. now, you talk to me about talking to folks who have a different point of view. listen, i've been a pastor my whole life. if you can convince the folks who like anthems and hymns to be nicer to folks who like contemporary gospel, you can do anything. so i have reached across the aisle time and time again. i've created alliances when it helps across the aisle to do work that's necessary for the people. i think you have to center the concerns of ordinary people, and that's the job they hired me to do.

>> and by the way, let me just clearly say that my mother was on the side of hems and got very angry every time somebody would try to play contemporary music in in a church. and i remember my grandma, i got up on youth night and was playing a song with a guitar with a friend of mine, steve finley, and i was tapping my foot, and my grandma said if you want to dance, go to a dance hall. if you want to sing in a church, then sing in a church. for those who haven't been raised in a baptist church, i know of what you speak. finally, speaking of growing up. i was born in georgia in a little place in 1963 was way out in the sticks, doraville, georgia, which isn't in the sticks anymore, but i'm just thinking about the fact i was

born, i was six months old during the march on washington. so many challenges in georgia, alabama, mississippi, all the states that i grew up in. i just sit here, just thinking about the fact that a black man and a jew were elected to the united states senate in my native state of georgia, who in the world would have imagined that in 1963. it is extraordinary, is it not, despite all of our problems, despite all of our failings as a nation, it is extraordinary, isn't it? >> listen, to serve and represent the people of georgia is the honor of my life. when i was born in 1969, georgia was represented by two art segregationists. one said we love the negro in his place, and his place is at the back door. i sit in his seat. that's the wonderful thing about

our country, we get to push it closer toward our ideals, and we have to stand up in this moment. >> early voting in your race, and the gubernatorial race tripled in 2018. the numbers were good, despite the concerns that you and president biden expressed about the new law that was passed last year. are you encouraged by that huge threefold increase in early voting in your state? >> yeah, i mean, look, the people of georgia showed up, and i don't take that for granted. i can't tell you how many times i have run into folks who said i waited eight hours to vote for you. i'm glad they voted for me, they shouldn't have to wait for eight hours. we have to make sure every eligible voter can access the ballot, and we have to remain vigilant on that front. >> a lot of people come out and vote this time. the book is "a way out of no way," a phrase from the church, a memoir of truth, transformation, and the new american story. senator raphael warnock, thank

you for being here, and great to have you with us in new york. >> thank you. in a few moments we're going to speak with a senior administration official on national security matters, john kirby. he joins us live from the white house. we'll ask him about a development in president biden 's overseas travel. plus, senator chris coons wants congress to pass new gun legislation and send it to the president's desk by the end of july. we'll ask the senator for an update on where all of that stands. also ahead, democratic congresswoman val demings joins us on her bid for the u.s. senate, trying to take on marco rubio in florida. and. there was an avalanche of all of these allegations of fraud that built up over a number of days, and it was like playing whac-a-mole because something would come out one day, and the next day it would be another issue. i told him the stuff people were shoveling out to the public was [ bleep ]

the claims of fraud were [ bleep ] and, you know, he was indignant about that. >> so many of these allegations that when you gave him a very direct answer on one of them, he wouldn't fight us on it but he would move to another allegation. >> congresswoman zoe lofgren will join us on the quarter of a billion dollars donald trump raised off the big lie. is the committee trying to lay the groundwork for a criminal case? the attorney general says he and his prosecutors are watching. congresswoman lofgren will be our guest in the next hour after leading much of yesterday's hearing which featured testimony from top members of the trump justice department, saying they told the former president that his claims of voter fraud were bogus. >> we have been talking about, it's very interesting that even in march, even after he said it was bogus, even after he said it was bs, and even after he was

harshly critical of donald trump, he said he would vote for him with the republican nominee in 2004. that's fascinating. first, let's bring the national security council coordinator for strategic communications, retired admiral john kirby. thank you so much for being with us. mika and i were talking this morning before the show, just going through the news, and we're looking at energy prices, continuing to go up. we're talking about the possibility of russia once again using food shortages as they did against the ukrainians in the 1930s to starve 2 million ukrainians, but now it's against them shipping food across the world. this grinding war of attrition. the russians making slow but steady progress in the donbas. if you look at the impact, this really is -- whether we want one or not, in a way, this is turning into a world war, a war against economies, a war against food supplies. does the white house -- what's

the level of concern at the white house that things are not going the way we want them to go there. >> certainly, you have heard the president talk, joe, about the putin price hike, right, the impact globally of mr. putin's unprovoked war in ukraine, and the impact that that's having obviously on the prices at the pump but also, you know, now it's going to impact food security, not just in europe but around the world. there absolutely is going to be and has been a global impact of this war in ukraine, which is why we're working so hard to make the ukrainians better on the battlefield, to give them the security assistance they need, to fight back and to win back their territory. >> obviously the narrative has changed over the past couple of weeks. the russians obviously consolidated their troops. they're not trying to take over an entire country. they're consolidated, and that mass is having more of an impact in a grinding war of attrition.

what else do we need to do? what else does the west need to do to let the ukrainians push the russians back? >> we are continuing to talk to the ukrainians every single day, joe, about their military requirements, and as you know, we now have additional funding available to us to send more material into ukraine, and i think you're going to start to see additional packages very very soon of other capabilities that we know that they could benefit from in this fight in the donbas. you talked about this grinding fight, and that's a very good way of describing it. it's a smaller geography, it's a part of ukraine that the russians and ukrainians have been fighting over literally since 2014. they're familiar with the train, and it's dependent on long range fires, artillery, the kind of material and assistance we're going to give them are designed to help them with the standoff range and to be able to defend themselves more capably, in what is a very, you know, flat sort of open topography. >> admiral, good morning, you all in the white house just

moments ago announcing president biden will take a trip to saudi arabia next month to meet with the crown prince, someone he called a pariah during the presidential campaign. what will be his message on issues of oil, obviously that's front and center for many americans right now, but also on issues of human rights. >> now, the president's going to saudi arabia because they're hosting the operation counsel, plus three. nine heads of state from the region to talk about a whole range of issues, multilateral and bilateral in the region, including counter terrorism. absolutely, look, oil production is going to be part of that discussion, and we would note that opec plus three just increased by 50%. the increases they already plan to do in july and august. there's obviously going to be some discussions about energy production, but also, i mean, look, again, the destabilizing behavior of iran, that will be front and center again, ending the war in yemen. we have a truce now that's two months in.

actually nine weeks in and got extended for another two months. that will save thousands of lives. there's a lot of work to be done inside the gcc. the president will speak bilaterally with the heads of state as well. >> i want to push further on the saudi trip. economic analysts have said even if saudi were to put more oil in there, first of all, it's not clear they can produce much more than they have, and it wouldn't make necessarily that much more of a difference. officials, though, previewing the trip say the president will indeed meet the crown prince there, mohammed bin salmon, who authorities have said is responsible for the death and dismemberment of "washington post" columnist jamal khashoggi. what would be the purpose of that meeting, sir? >> he's going to meet bilaterally with king salmon. i suspect he'll see the crown prince in the context of the

meetings. he's grateful for the king's willingness to host the gcc plus three. he's looking forward to, again, a wide scope of discussions. obviously human rights is something we bring up with partners and friends and folks all over the world every time we meet. it's a key component of the president's foreign policy. he believes that foreign policy has to be rooted in our values. obviously human rights will come up as a part of that discussion. >> on that when the president does meet with the crown prince, specifically, does he address the murder of khashoggi. >> i'm not going to get ahead of the individual discussions the president has had. he has held saudi arabia accountable for a series of measures when he released and published that report from the intelligence community about the murder of jamal khashoggi. he has spoken strongly about that. human rights are always on the agenda, when we're meeting with counter parts all over the world. >> thank you so much, admiral john kirby, greatly appreciate

you being with us. >> always. >> as always. >> you know, willie, it is obviously -- this is a tough decision for any white house to make. we have been hearing about obviously the strategic concerns about oil, and again on the oil front, a lot of observers don't think the saudis have much more production anyway. that they could give but when you're talking about iran, when you're talking about yemen, you're talking about a lot of other issues around the region strategically. the biden white house it seems has very few options when dealing in the middle east. i would say that of any white house at some point, we're going to have to figure out if we can stitch this relationship back together again or not. >> you have a tough task in front of them. the white house is not particularly excited about

talking about that element of the story, the human rights element of it, and jonathan lemire, we have seen in the last few weeks with the break away saudi golf league how intense the heat and scrutiny can be on anything in saudi arabia, because of what you cited to admiral kirby about the killing and dismemberment of jamal khashoggi. they can say this is about oil and of course a lot of it is because we want to get gas prices down, but that is the elephant in the room. >> it is. and certainly this administration far more critical of saudi arabia. jared kushner had a whatsapp die long with the crown prince. it shows the strategic importance of saudi arabia, on oil and gas, and regionally. the threat that that nation poses to the region. the white house, they're going reluctantly. we know the president publicly had seemed saudi arabia a pariah. privately, recent weeks

questioned the wisdom about going on the trip. felt he was going back on his word by having to go, but he's boxed in, and he does need to go. saudi arabia is too important to ignore, but certainly the white house is framing this as this is also an important visit to israel, to reaffirm that commitment. israel is the first stop, and saudi arabia because they're the head of the regional golf council states right now, that would be the next logical step. he does have to go next there, not to riyadh, he's not traveling to the capital of saudi arabia. this goes to show at this moment, the president doesn't have any good or easy choices when it comes to saudi arabia and the middle east, he has to go. >> especially if you look at the reaction to the war in ukraine with russia. it wasn't just the saudis and others who were trying to play down the middle. israel surprisingly enough, at least surprising to me at the beginning trying to play it more

down the middle than we would have expected. i'm sure joe biden feels the need, again, to get in front of several leaders across the middle east especially as this war against ukraine by vladimir putin drags on. >> we want to play for you another moment from yesterday's january 6th house select committee hearing. the committee played part of a deposition from former trump campaign manager bill stepien, explaining that he and house minority leader kevin mccarthy tried to convince president trump that mail-in votes were not indicative of fraud. >> in particular, i invited kevin mccarthy to join the meeting, he being of like mind on the issue with me, in which we made our case for why we

believed mail-in voting not to be a bad thing for his campaign. but, you know, the president's mind was made up and he understands, you know, how many times to, you know, go to the well on a particular topic. >> yeah, i understand. tell me a little bit more about the argument that you and mr. mccarthy made to the president in that meeting as to why it wasn't a bad thing that mail-in voting was available. >> largely two pillars to that argument, both of which i previously mentioned, one, you know, leaving a good deal to chance, pushing or urging your voters to vote fully on election day leaves a lot to chance, that's a. and b, also previously mentioned the fact that the trump

campaign, republican national committee, republican party had an advantage of grass roots workers and volunteers on the grounds that would allow, you know, an advantage to enhance return rates of ballots. those were the two pillars of the argument. >> i see. and what if anything do you recall representative mccarthy saying during that meeting. >> we were echoing the same argument. i mean, his words echoed mine and vice versa on those two topics. >> so, joe, they were trying to convince him about mail-in ballots. they are convincing a person who doesn't need convincing because he used mail-in ballots himself. >> right. >> the frustration here is that these people are saying that they were trying to help him understand something. trump fully understood everything he was doing. >> right.

and he was using, and again, i talk about chris christie, but others heard six months before the election, trump already trying to use the excuse of mail-in ball lots fraudulent. >> the mail system, u.s. postal service. >> a lot of people believe he tried to make the u.s. postal service less effective. what's so bizarre about this is republicans always historically have done well with mail-in ballots, with absentee ballots. the thing that i learned very early on as a republican candidate, you try to bank as many votes with absentee ballot votes as you can because you'll have a lot of military voters overseas that are more prone to vote republican. you have other people across the world, but also maybe older voters who may not be able to get out and vote. so, you know, we always -- and it's so strange, it's changed

since donald trump, you know, you'd always hear people on election night saying, okay, these are the early returns that are going to favor republicans because republicans do much better with absentee ballots, absentee voters. that's always been the case. the fact that donald trump was working against interests and discouraging republicans to vote early, discouraging republicans to do absentee ballot voting, there's no doubt it hurt him not only during his election where he fared worse than republicans across the country but also in the georgia race, also in other republican races. i mean, now these republicans understand he's doing a great disservice to the republican party by doing that. let's bring in right now, democratic senator chris coons of delaware. first of all, i'm sure the senator can echo what i have just said about republicans traditionally, pretrump, doing very well with absentee voting, but he's also a member of the foreign relations committee and judiciary committees.

senator, if you will, tell us your take aways from yesterday's january 6th hearing. >> joe, these january 6th hearings are remarkable. they are riveting. they are delivering new evidence. i'll tell you, frankly, as someone who sat through the whole second impeachment trial of president trump around the january 6th trial and his role in it. i didn't think there was a huge amount of new evidence that i would see by watching these hearings. there is. it's compelling. and i think chairman bennie thompson and ranking member liz cheney are doing an excellent job. the testimony day after day is building a case that president trump knew he had lost the election, that he was fraudulently reaching out to his donors and getting them to send in millions of dollars, that he refused evidence that he had lost from his close supporters and that he went ahead anyway with a quarantine led by rudy giuliani with planning the january 6th riot that ultimately led to the first time in our

history, a mob stormed our capitol to try and disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. simply striking, and i hope folks are watching these hearings. >> you've said quite a number of times that you really want americans to zoom in on what's happening during these hearings, and you touch on something that my father talked about in the final decade of his life and the concern about the inequality in this country, and the potential for political violence for people to be swept up, like in a trump type cult. and here we are today looking at january 6th and we have republicans serving right now in the senate and in congress who want to pretend it didn't happen, who want to sweep it under the rug, who don't want to look at it, so could you explain why shining a light on what

happened january 6th is important in stemming political violence or could it do rather the opposite? >> mika, you had reverend and senator raphael warnock on just a few minutes ago, and i thought he gave a compelling insight about this, a core question is are we a january 6th nation, driven bipartisanship or a january 5th nation, the day on which he and jon ossoff were elected in georgia. significant change, progress certainly from my perspective in that georgia elected its first ever black senator and jewish senator, and added to, of course, the change in the senate by giving us the majority. i'll mention that senator john cornyn and i yesterday reintroduced a bill called the civics secures democracy act. it's a bipartisan bill with several supporters here in the senate. it would authorize spending a billion dollars a year on civics

education in our country. only nine states require a full year of civics in high school or middle school, and i think part of what's going on, the fraying of trust and confidence in our system is because too many of us at all ages are distracted by social media that spins us into more and more extreme and isolated perspectives, where we are reinforcing our negative views of our political opponents and demonizing them. president biden since he ran, since he was elected has tried to help bring our country together by making appeals to our common american interests. that's a lot of why i supported him. i believe in president biden's view that compromise can bring us together and joe and mika, i am encouraged that we have 20 senators willing to work together after the horrific shootings in uvalde and buffalo and many others to make some progress on gun safety and mental health. >> senator, let me ask you about

that, good morning. you do have ten republicans on board now with ten democrats who have come up with this deal, no legislative text yet but we know the broad outlines of it on red flag laws, mental illness, mental health, and school safety. are you encouraged? we know there's some sort of bill writing that has to get done here and may be some snags along the way. are you encouraged that something might not get out of your small group, but may pass the senate. not something that checks the box, and makes significant progress into stopping gun violence in the country. >> i'm encouraged that we continue to make progress towards legislative drafting, the framework that was announced this weekend is an important step forward, but turning it into a bill on the senate floor, that's the hard work, and i spoke to several senators last night and this morning who are engaged in this. i did speak to several republican senators who are not a part of this framework group

yet who said they were looking it over, and considering supporting it. i'll mention one other feature you didn't mention there in what's included, the so called boyfriend loophole, in this country if you are convicted of domestic violence against someone you are married to, you can be prevented from buying a weapon, not if you have been convicted of domestic violence against someone you're dating, that's a loophole this bill, as we turn it into bill text would also close. it makes advancements across the water front in gun safety, in combatting gun violence, and investing in community and school mental health. is it everything i would have wanted, no, absolutely not, but politics is the art of the possible. and this is a moment for us to embrace the possible to show the american people that elections matter and that we can still do things here in the congress in our democracy that make a difference. >> senator, let's talk about the

turbulence in the u.s. economy. the "wall street journal" business and finance headline, bond yields reach 11-year high out of fear of inflation. a "wall street journal" front page, markets dive, feds eye bigger rate, and then "the new york times" growing economic worries push the market into bear territory. gerard baker said the wishful thinking of joe biden, of the fed, of democrats in congress has come at a very steep price for thinking that inflation was transitory. what's your reaction to that? did the democrats take too long to respond to the growing inflation fears? >> president biden has said that tackling inflation is his top economic priority, and i'll remind you, joe, we have a plan. the republicans have no plan. i remain hopeful that we will yet pass a bill that will reduce

prescription drug prices, reduce the cost of health care for the average american. that's something senator war knock was talking about, a bipartisan bill that we have in front of us that would reduce the cost of insulin. your average american needs to see prices come down, and that's something we are all tackling here in congress. in my caucus, we have a plan for how to do that, and i do think the next couple of months will be challenging if we cannot get the cost of gas and groceries and every day living down. one of the things i hear most about from my constituents is the cost of prescription drugs and health care. >> senator chris coons, thank you very much for coming on this morning. a lot to do there in washington. >> so much. still ahead on "morning joe," more from yesterday's testimony from former attorney general bill barr played during the second hearing into the attack on the capitol saying donald trump was quote detached from reality as he tried to

overturn the 2020 election, and we'll be joined by the lawmaker who led much of yesterday's hearing, congresswoman zoe lofgren, and also ahead, congresswoman val demings will be our guest, we'll ask her about her fight to unseat republican senator marco rubio of florida. and it's primary day in five states across the country. steve kornacki joins us in our fourth hour to break down all of today's big races including in south carolina where donald trump is looking to unseat two more incumbent republicans that he views as disloyal. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. al you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. for the first hearingen 20 million people tuned in, which is higher than the nba finals. he didn't know whether to worry about the hearing or the ratings. >> biggest ratings in history.

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in the second hearing into the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol, the house select committee made the case that donald trump had an inner circle of advisers telling him the truth that the election was not stolen but then he chose to believe another team of advisers led by, as the committee put it, an inebriated rudy giuliani who urged the former president to declare victory prematurely on election night. the other stunner that came out of yesterday's hearing, what the committee called the big ripoff, the former president raised a quarter of a billion dollars off the big lie for a so-called election defense fund that investigators say never existed. the committee accused trump of

preying on his supporters. >> there's so much to get to here. once again, the january 6th committee did not disappoint, and i've got to say, the fact that you have one trumper after another trumper after another trumper after another trumper, people who have invested their professional lives in a guy who they know is damaging their reputation, perhaps permanently, but they're still in there with him, they're the ones who are testifying, there are no liberal democrats testifying about all the terrifying things donald trump has done. these are people closest to him. these are people that he hired. these are people he trusted. these are people who were with him to the very end. they're the ones saying time and time again in testimony that donald trump knew that all of

these bogus arguments were lies. he was told it day in and day out, and that he continued to move forward with the lie despite the fact he knew that these conspiracy theories didn't hold any water. >> and that's what jumped out to me, joe, again, to your point for a second day is the unequivocal nature of the testimony from president trump's own advisers. i think i expected more hemming and hawing and a halfhearted defense of president trump, but perhaps to save their own hides they sat down and told the committee everything, saying we told him this election was clean. we told him it was not rigged. we told him it wasn't stolen. he stands alone with rudy giuliani and a couple of other crack pots, and the other piece that jumped out at me claire mccaskill, if you're a trump supporter watching your hearing, maybe you weren't, but maybe you heard about it, and you know that donald trump knew that this whole thing was a scam, that it was a lie, and first he sent you to the capitol, and now you're

getting arrested some of you and going to prison, and then he took $250 million of your money and put it in his pocket, based on something he knew was a scam, don't you feel duped at this point that you either went to prison or gave up a bunch of your money for a lie? >> well, the problem is to feel duped, you have to have some self-blame that you were stupid enough to go along with this nut, and i don't think that that kind of reflection comes easily for folks. you know, it is fascinating to me, there's a couple of things about this that really struck me, the first is can you imagine how different history would have been, how lives would have been saved, how we wouldn't have this really inflection point in our democracy, if all of those trump people who we heard on tape yesterday, if in december of 2020 they would have come together and issued a joint statement, you know, all of them, but instead, you know, i

can't do a parade for these guys because just because they have been truthful at this point, they allowed this to go on. the republicans on capitol hill allowed this to go on, and they didn't stand up when they should have, and it is really a lesson for the history books that these people were so afraid of the consequences of saying the emperor wears no clothes that they hid under their desks and look what happened. here we find ourselves with a huge chunk of the country believing a complete fraud around whether or not our elections are counted right. >> and you have especially in that case bill barr, even after he left, he leaves, he gives this positive statement when he's leaving, and then i believe when he's asked in march about trump, he said he'd vote for him again. i appreciate the opportunity to update you this afternoon he wrote in his resignation, review

of the voter fraud allegations and how these allegations will continue to be pursued. he knew it was a lie. he said it was quote bullshit, yet he continues pursuing the allegations, and he'd vote for him again. that's unpatriotic, i don't want to get too mellow dramatic. i think it's sick. and there's just no excuse, especially, it's always sick, but the way that people in washington think, they go, oh, i've got to protect my career. don't really understand you protecting your career more than, you know, protecting the flag, protecting the constitution, but barr's career is over. he was at the end of the career. he sullied his reputation to go back and work for trump, and when he figured out that trump

was crazy, his words, out of his mind detached from reality, he still, he still was sucking up even at the end. what was it worth for you, bill? coming up, congresswoman val demings is standing by. she has a pointed new message for fellow democrats when it comes to defunding the police. quote, that's just crazy. the former police chief joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." s straight ahead on "morning joe." only at vanguard you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means that your priorities are ours too. our interactive tools and advice can help you build a future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership. -dad, what's with your toenail? -oh, that...? i'm not sure... -it's a nail fungus infection. -...that's gross! -it's nothing, really... -it's contagious. you can even spread it to other people.

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. welcome back to "morning joe," we've been recapping yesterday's hearing on the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. here are some of the clips the committee played of its interviews with former attorney general bill barr and former acting deputy attorney general richard donahue explaining trump's refusal to accept

reality that he lost. there's an avalanche of all of these allegations of fraud that built up over a number of days, and it was like playing whac-a-mole because something would come out one day, and then the next day it would be another issue. the early claims that i understood were completely bogus and silly, and usually based on complete misinformation. i told him that the stuff that his people were shoveling out to the public were [ bleep ] that the claims of fraud were [ bleep ] and you know, he was indignant about that. and i reiterated that they wasted a whole month on these claims on the dominion voting machines and they were idiotic claims, and i specifically raised the dominion voting machines which i found to be among the most disturbing allegations, disturbing in the sense that i saw absolutely zero basis for the allegations, but

they were made in such a sensational way that they obviously were influencing a lot of people, members of the public, that there was this systemic corruption in the system, and that their votes didn't count and that these machines controlled by somebody else were actually determining it, which was complete nonsense. and it was being laid out there, and i told him that it was crazy stuff. and they were wasting their time on that. and was doing a great disservice to the country. >> i'd like to, again, put this in perspective and to try to put it in very clear terms to the president, and i said something to the effect of, sir, we've done dozens of investigations, hundreds of interviews, the major allegations are not supported by the evidence developed. we've looked at georgia, pennsylvania, michigan, nevada, we're doing our job. much of the info you're getting

is false. and then i went into for instance, this thing from michigan, this report about 68% error rate, reality is it was only .0063 error rate, less than 1 in 15,000. so the president accepted that. he said, okay, fine, but what about the others, and again, this gets back to the point that there were so many of these allegations that when you gave him a very direct answer on one of them, he wouldn't fight us on it, but he would move to another allegation. >> so jonathan lemire, this is not a celebration of profiles in courage, it's just the opposite, in fact, what we're saying is these guys knew and they're specifying in this testimony that everything that donald trump and his closest people were saying was a lie, and yet they didn't speak out publicly about it, but this testimony before this hearing shows exactly what they knew and what they believed, whether we're talking about dominion voting machines or italian satellites

or the cyber ninjas, they thought it was ludicrous and insane but apparently kept those opinions to themselves. >> they all had the opportunity to speak publicly in november, december, in january, none of them did. i wanted to read this quote. it was an infamous quote from the "washington post," we talked about it briefly on the show. what is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time, this republican operative told the post, i won't read the whole thing but goes on to say this, it's not like he's plotting how to prevent joe biden from taking power on january 20th. he'll tweet about lawsuits about how the election was stolen and he'll leave. that was the issue. mcconnell did that for a time too. not just people in the white house but republicans in power, any of whom could have thrown their body in front of this and said this has to stop. they all were under the belief, let's let him wine, blow off steam, we know he doesn't like losing and instead by indulging him we got a moment where not only was democracy in peril on

january 6th, but he's still around, he could still run again. those are the stakes of these hearings, right? >> absolutely. and you know, i want to make sure we correct the record in one record, barr didn't say he was detached from reality. he said if he believed these things he was detached from reality. that's a really important distinction to make because that goes to his state of mind and his criminal intent, which leads us to the grift. i don't believe that donald trump really thought this stuff that rudy giuliani and sidney powell and the other pretend lawyers were coming up with. i don't think he believed it. i don't think he was detached from reality, i think he was trying to commit a fraud. he was, a, trying to hold on to power, and b, he saw a way to keep it going, to keep the grift going. i mean, if you look at the amount of money he raised and i think that's going to be a secondary story that's going to continue to develop where every penny of that quarter of a billion dollars went, and

whether or not there was just blatant consumer fraud involved, that means a lot of attorney generals around the country have got some work to do, if in fact, this case continues to develop the way it did yesterday. coming up, it seems like a novel concept in the era of the big lie. >> we just told the truth, and it's based on facts and evidence not opinion. that's what we hope to do today, and i think hopefully we achieve that. one of the leading voices from the house committee investigating january 6th, congresswoman zoe lofgren is our guest straight ahead on "morning joe." is our guest straight ahead on "morning joe. ♪ ♪ entresto is the number one heart failure

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coming up next, we'll go live to south carolina where hard fought primaries are playing out today. republicans nancy mace and tom rice criticized donald trump after the january 6th insurrection, and now they are

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i would much more prefer not to turn over the party to a con-artist like donald trump. >> he's like 6'2" which i don't understand why his hands are the size of nun 5'2". >> and there those on the right to justify how they fell into the trap of supporting donald trump. >> if he's going to run for president in 2024, he's the republican nominee, i will support him. >> there are many people an ott right explaining and justifying how they fell into this trap of supporting donald trump. >> he'll be the republican nominee. >> how they fell into this trap of supporting donald trump.

>> of course i would support him. >> i'm so confused. florida senator marco rubio, who wants one of former trump's fiercest critics has transformed into a loyal deporter, i guess depending on day of the week. that is one of the reasons that val demmings is mountaining a challenge against the incumbent senator this november. and the first female police chief is out with a new new ad highlighting one of her key positions. >> chief val demings. >> protect and serve florida, that is what i've done as police officer and chief. >> under her leadership, crime is down 40%. >> and the senate i'll protect florida from bad ideas like defunding the police. that is just crazy. i'm val demings. and i approve this message.

because florida it is time to send a cop on the beat to the senate. >> and congresswoman demings joining us now. i'm laughing at your ad, it is a good ad. i like it a lot. it makes an important point, differentiating that not all democrats are so far left that they have these concepts that get out there and run away with them like defunding the police. how do you plan to create a campaign that could beat marco rubio in the state of florida? >> well, mika, it is great to be back with you and, look, i'm very proud of that ad because i'm very proud of my ears of public service. you know, it was interesting watching the clips of marco rubio and i say don't listen to what they say, watch what me do. the bottom line is, our safety and security, the safety and security of the people in florida, the people of our nation should be our top concern

and we cannot say one thing and do another. my record of service demonstrates i'm committed to getting things done. i have the courage and the boldness, i'm a risk taker to take us to another level. and i believe that florida deserves more than someone who will just say anything, but deserves someone who is committed to the task at hand. i'm traveling the state from the panhandle down to the keys. talking to people about things that matter to them. not my personal agenda like marco rubio does. because he really wants to run for president again. and that is fine. let him help himself. but talking to people about things that keep them up at night. like crime, like the cost of gas at the pumps and things in the grocery store, the fear of losing their health care or social security and medicare, those are the kind of things this race is about and we're going to make sure that voters are heard by traveling state.

>> well two clear reasons why you might be a force to be reckoned with, former police chief and mother of four daughters. >> i'm the mother of three sons. >> oh, three sons. >> but for -- the grandmother of four granddaughters and one grandson. so, yes. >> oh, my god. >> so that is a force to reckon with in and of itself. >> i'll give you that. but on safety and security, tell me how your opponent has said one thing and done another. >> well mika, i think it is so great that my ad highlights the 40% reduction in violent crime under my time as chief of police. when i was appointed, crime in orlando was in the an all-time high. and i thoughts with interesting, orlando gets the first woman and crime is at an all-time high. but instead of focusing on the

crisis, i focused on the opportunity and that is to provide my best service to swing for the fences, bring our communities together into our efforts and by doing that we were able to reduce crime. what we do know about my opponent is that he will pick and choose winners and losers based on their ability to pay to play. marco rubio has been in elected office, the career politician that he is, since 1998. i've never seen the reduction of crime being a priority of his. matter of fact, as he painfully watched the january 6 hearings, marco rubio voted against an independent commission to investigate. and just as you clearly indicated, he said a lot of things about the former president trump on one end and then doing everything he with right now to win the favor. this is not about the former

president, this is about floridians and i'm going to work every day to do everything that i can to keep them safe once i'm in the u.s. senate. >> congresswoman demings. good morning, it is willie geist. nice to see you. >> good morning. >> marco rubio has it a circus and made for tv event saying the focus should be on things like the price of gas. one could say you could have both of those thoughts in your head at the same time and address both of those problems. so let me ask you about the second one which is the price of gas. the price of groceries. the sticker shock people are seeing every time they go to the store in the state of florida and across the country. we have senator warnock a few minutes ago and asked him the same question, that is front and center for voters come november. what are you proposing to do about inflation. is there anything the government could do about it at this point before election day. >> well willie, it is great to see you as well. let me say this, i do understand

that when