and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. good afternoon, you're watching "chris jansing reports" live from msnbc headquarters in new york city. and right now, we're in an extraordinary moment. because the two men best positioned to win the next presidential election face huge challenges. the kind that have proven fatal to presidential aspirations in the past. today also marks the con influence of three major storylines. the faultering economy, january 6 revelations, and political primaries in four more states today all with dramatic implications a about where this country is headed and who is going to lead it. let's start with president biden. he's got record high inflation and record low consumer

confidence and those aren't the only challenges to his reelection, but they maybe the biggest. even so, he delivered a powerful message to the afl-cio today uncysting he is still the right man for the job. >> i'm going to keep fighting for you. are you prepared to fight with me? let's build it together. let's continue to give working families a fighting chance. face our challenges head on. and let's keep building a a better america, because we can do it. >> on the other side of the coin, republicans are also facing potential head winds, but in the form of the former president. with the january 6th committee unveiling new testimony and evidence that shows former president trump embraced election fraud allegations a as a way to raise hundreds of millions from his supporters. republicans a across the country have to be asking themselves whether it makes sense to keep

writing riding trump's coat tails. so far it's been a winning formula. the watts post found 10 primary candidates have won their races while backing the big lie. will there continue to be the case. and one more intriguing detail. the january 6th hearing that was supposed to take place tomorrow has been postponed due to, quote, technical issues. thursday's hearing will go ahead as planned. got a lot to talk about. i want to bring in national political correspondent steve kornacki at the big board for us. matthew doud is a political contributor and michael sheer is reporter for the "washington post". we have glen conscientiouser in, welcome to all of you. so matthew, i want to start with your big picture state of play. both parties right now being led by men who have major weaknesses and actually face threats to their candidacy. biden in the form of the

economy, trump in the form of the january 6th committee and its findings. this convergence providing challenges for both paries and along the way some tough decisions, not just for voters, but their parties as well. >> i think the 2024 is too far off to speulate on who is going to be vulnerable or not. i remember in 182 reagan was history. he lost badly in the midterms and two years later turned around and won in a landslide in 1984. so i would rather be in joe biden's position where he has the ability to move his numbers, where donald trump doesn't. donald trump's numbers have been low for his entire presidency and after presidency. the concern i think for the democrats is the midterms. and if history is any judge when a president has low approval ratings going into a midterm, and this one based on the economy and inflation, usually the party suffers losses. but we're in unusual times.

if democrats want to win, which i still think they can keep the house and keep the senate in this election, but it depends on the campaign they run. they have to make this campaign about a big issue and the biggest issue in my mind is what we have seen unfold in the january 6 hearing, which is the health and protection of our democracy. if they try to fight it in the weeds with the republicans, they are going to lose the midterms. they have to broaden the race and they have to make the race about the fate of our democracy. even while people are suffering through high gas prices and high inflation. >> so let's talk about the races going on now. we're going to dig deeper into the challenges facing joe biden in a minute. let's talk about trump, the republican party because you're following the nevada primaries. and really the maga movement is on the ballot. lay it out for us. >> reporter: the big race here is going to be for the u.s. senate. the democratic incumbent is looking like she will be facing the front runner. adam has been a trump supporter

from the beginning. he supports trump's claims of election fraud. he's been endorsed by former president trump. donald trump jr. was in town campaigning for him. he's a personal friend of ron desantis. so a lot of the members of the republican party that support the maga agenda are standing behind adam. meanwhile, the other big race for the governor's seat. whether the republicans here agree or don't agree with the maga agenda, most of the ones we have spoken to here say they want change. we spoke to two voters earlier today to talk about the change that they'd like to see in leadership. >> we have to want better for not just ourselves, but everybody should want better. to sit by and be content is really not the american way. s that's not how we got to where we are today.

>> the question when it comes to the maga agenda and candidates like adam, is assuming he would win the primary and face katherine, will the non-partisan voters in places that can swing the election one way or another, will they go with adam. will they be convinced everything that's affecting them is because of the decisions that have been made by the democrats or will they stick with these democrats. that's the question once we move on to the midterm election. >> nevada wanted just four states holding primaries. our political team has a headline that said trump's revenge tour taking him to south carolina. lay it out for us. >> here you go. two districts in south carolina with republican incumbents who face challengers backed by former president trump.

here's the first one. this is charleston. the low country of south carolina, nancy mace, she was elected in 2020. and one of the first things she did upon being elect the was to condemn donald trump for his role on january 6th. vote to certify the 2020 election. that drew the ire of trump and drew katie airington into the race. she's running with trump's endorsement. there was a third candidate who has since dropped out. she's also endorsed airington. mace's approach to this has been to sort of back away from some of those more edgy comments she made about trump early on in her tennessee euro to try to run on other issues and make peace as best she can with the trump wing of the party. but she does have an opponent backed by donald trump.airingto primary in 2018 over then congressman mark sanford with the the backing of donald trump when he was president. so trump has backed her in a primary before. more interesting perhaps is this

test in the seventh district of south carolina. now you're talking about myrtle beach, this region of south carolina. here's tom rice, long-serving republican. didn't just condemn's trump's behavior. he voted to impeach trump. one of the very few republican members of congress to do that. and this is the first time we have been tracking these republican primaries all year, this is the first time it's come up like this. a republican incumbent who voted to impeach trump and is trying to hang on to his seat and has a challenger. fry is a state legislator, a challenger backed by donald trump. this is the first time trump has waded in directly into a primary against a republican who voted for his impeachment. so a lot of interest in this race tonight. one thing worth noting, it's a crowded republican primary ballot. that 50% rule is in effect. if nobody gets 50% here tonight, the top two will go on to a run-off two weeks from now. >> that's going to tell us a lot

about trump so it brings us back to that. "the washington post" found more than 100 republicans who won races while embracing the big lie. now we learn from the january 6th committee the lie was a ripoff with the former president using a grift of quarter billion dollars, taking money for a defense fund that didn't even exist. that is according to the january 6th committee. does that open the door for the kind of charges or legal issues that might be a real problem if he's serious about 2024? >> it does seem like with each new fact revealed to the american people by the january 6th committee in these public hearings, the evidence of donald trump's crimes and criminal intent seems to mount. we already knew what donald trump's public statements were, what kind of tweets he was seconding out. as early as april of 2020, months before the election suggesting that he thought the election would be rigged. he doubled down in wisconsin in

august in a rally, but he just flat out said, the only way we can lose is if the election is rigged. and we now know that on the early morning hours after the election, november 4, he decided to take the leap and say, frankly, we did win this election. but what the january 6th committee is showing us is what wept on behind the scenes as donald trump was making the decision over time to take this position. we know he was looking bad in the polls so he had to start saying the only way i could lose is if the election is rigged. we also know that he knew a about the so-called red mirage. the early election results in-person voting would tend to favor trump. as all of the votes were counted, including the mail-in ballot s, it would favor biden and looked like trump was going to lose. so what did he do on the night of or early morning hours after the election?

he jumped in to the red mirage and he tried to make it real. and now we know from behind the scenes testimony what was going on in the oval office. all of the adults in the room and others said you can't do that, mr. president you have to wait until the votes are counted. s it was only trump who said no, go out, declare victory because if you don't, you'll look weak. through the lens of a former prosecutor, this looks like not only crime by donald trump, but criminal intent. >> the question is does it resinate. i want to play part of what committee member said this morning on "morning joe" about the president's actions regarding this defense fund. >> we were not making a criminal case. we were simply saying that he misled his donors and they were primarily people of modest means. the average donation was under

$20. and he fed them lies. and is using the money for something other than what he said. >> so i guess when you look at that, and whether or not there are charges far before donald trump decides whether he's going to run, does any of this resinate in the primaries that we're seeing now and if they are going to go on for a bit and certainly in november. >> i don't think it resinates in the republican primaries because whoever is the biggest election denier in the biggest attacker of the democrats trying to hold the republicans accountable seems to be doing the best in this. that is a perfect example of this. you have a plethora, almost every single candidate running on the republican side is an election denier and doesn't believe in the accountability of january 6th. you have tom rice who want to hold donald trump accountable. i don't think it has any effect on the republican primary. it does give the democrats, as i

alluded to, an opportunity to basically broaden the debate and say our republic is on the line. we have to hold people accountable. if we don't people accountable, then we're going to lose our democracy. and that's the path, i think, that it continues to give the democrats if they want to win. >> and you had a fascinating article about the shadow race for the republican nomination involving more than a dozen candidates. what does this, what we're seeing now with the january 6th committee say, what do primaries tell us a about that, and how are these candidates likely to read any of it. >> i think there's a lot of optimism within the republican party that donald trump's current standing is not going to last a year from now. if you dpo back to 1990, bill clinton was not polling in

democratic primary polls. in 2008, or 2006, barack obama was not polling. rudy giuliani was winning the early primary polls. and you do have a real rebellion. they would like to turn the page. the question is how to do it. trump still has the mega phone. he has a significant portion of the party. he has the ability to et threaten to basically blow up the party. he could -- if he has the primary fight, he's going to say to his devoted followers, don't vote for this guy no matter what. and almost guarantee a democratic win in the general election in 2024. it's a delicate dance, but it's definitely underway. there are quite a few governors, senators, other politicians traveling to early states, raise

ing money, drawing up power points and making the case that they are better or will be better than trump as the nominee in 2024. >> all of this if your a pragmatist is about the middle. who is going to be a able to attract the voter who is are going to swing any election one way or another. and what's really interesting because we had a democratic senator on just in the last hour who was talking about joe biden. let me play for you what he had to say. >> that $a 5 gas sign, it's stunning to ordinary americans and the president has pretty limited power to change that. >> ultimately, we don't know where we're going to be, but you can never, ever rule out the economy a as a major driver, particularly for those folks in the middle. >> that's right. it's clearly the biggest thing

in politics right now. it's driving his approval ratings below 40%. the democrats hope a variation of what matthew was saying to make this a choice again. there is some indication that voters are not holding all democrats accountable for the economic situation. there are a number of governors across the country who are in tough races who are polling well ahead. there are senators in tough races in places like arizona polling ahead. and i think what democrats will have to do and this january 6th stuff will be a part of that is make this election choice, make the choice that the alternative is not better than the current situation. >> what a great panel. thank you. with those primaries getting underway today, millions of voters are taking those economic pains into lkt and the fed is poised to hike interest rates again. what would that mean for americans already struggling?

plus the january 6th committee just postponing tomorrow's round three of hearings with the possibility of criminal charge referrals still up in the air. we're going to dig into everything we know ahead. you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. ansing reports," only on msnbc. no, he's seizing the moment with merrill. moving his money into his investment account in real time and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it. usually. and in it. mostly. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour.

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inflation. it was president biden in front of union members in pennsylvania drawing a sharp contrast with republicans in a campaign-style speech. >> republican in congress are doing everything they can to stop my plans to bring down the cost on ordinary families. that's why my plan is not finished. look, i believe in bipartisanship. but i have no illusions about the maga party. i have been a able to bring some republicans a along on parts of my plan, butt fact is republicans in congress are still in the grip of the maga agenda. they still refuse considering any of the tax cuts which delivered massive wind fallss billionaires and others. >> the question is how hard a sell is that because you have the federal reserve likely to raise interest rates by three-quarters of a point. americans are still struggling

as prices continue to rise for everything from clothing to gas to groceries. and new numbers this morning show the increase in wholesale prices in june pushed the yearly increase to 10.8%. that's near a record annual pace. and wall street is struggling to recover from yesterday's nose dive with the s&p 500 falling into the bear market. all of that adding up to the ceo of morgan stanley saying he thinks there's a 50/50 chance of a recession. joining me to break it down is tom costello, kelly o'donnell and matthew dowd. let's start with that economic part of the puzzle. what would an interest rate hike of three quarters of a point mean? >> i think we should probably stress the reason the fed is going to do this is because it only has one tool in the tool box to get inflation under control. and that's a hammer, only they are using a sledge hammer right now.

this would be the biggest since 1994. it would mean new mortgage rates would go higher, car loans would go higher, credit card loans would go higher. if you take out a home equity line, that would go higher. all of those costs would start to grow and and grow and grow. it means companies that want to borrow money to expand, they maybe not willing to do that because everything costs more. the whole idea is slow down the pace of the economy, slow down inflation, they have a couple strange caveats here. unemployment right now is at a 50-year low. 3.6%, even as we have inflation running so hot at 40-year highs. that's really unusual. so the fed needs to slam on the brakes to stop this. the trouble is as you know, if they slam the brakes on too hard, we hit a brick wall and go into recession and then you could have layoffs. so they are walking a very fine line. but the inflation picture has gotten so serious that the fed now expected to raise rates by three quarters of a percent, whereas a week a ago the

thinking was they would raise by half a percentage point. >> if you're looking at the politics of this, it's pretty fraught for democrats. and the message is nuanced. so the president acknowledged in his speech that there are these problems of gas prices, food prices, he also touted his economic wins. he talked about how hard it was to inherit the covid economy. a lot of that is the same approach we have heard from him. is the white house settling on a messaging strategy and any indication that people who are running for office a at the end of this year are going to pick up on it? >> the president was certainly road testing some of the messaging today. we might see this packaged and reworked a bit and used in other places. this was a very safe audience for the president, union workers and organized labor are among his most solid, loyal and long-standing supporters. it was a good place for the president in terms of trying to test this kind of message.

you're right, this is problematic in the sense that the president is trying to remind people of how hard things were when he came into office. people lived through that. he does have some good things to say about the economy. but it's offset by what people are experiencing day-to-day, which is higher prices at the pump, the grocery store n their everyday lives. while salaries may be higher and jobs plentiful, they are still experiencing that economic pinch. one of the challenges is the president has ideas legislatively that he would like it try to enact to address that, but he's not been able to do that. and so that is a big stulabling block for the president a as he's trying to argue for his party in the midterms. that is part of what he saw play out today when he was calling out republicans and the president's brand does include bipartisan sorks you heard addressing that split by trying to work with some republicans and trying to label others ultimate maga and calling them out as being too aligned with

president trump. and the policies of the former administration. so not an easy thing to do. one of the questions will be how much does this effect other democrats. the president also noted that while in pennsylvania, he had a zoom call. he told the audience he had spoken by zoom with john fetterman, the nominee for the senate seat, who we know has been off the trail due to held concerns. he had been able to make contact there. doing a little local politics and trying to set a bigger table for what the issues could be. these aren't easy issues and certainly republicans are pushing on their range of things touting all the time the kinds of economic pains that the country is feeling as an argument against the president while he's trying to say the country has come far. stay with him and that his ideas and poliies could give that stability that the country needs. not an easy argument for the president, but he's it's one he's out there trying to make.

>> so talk about the stakes of this message working. because if joe biden, if his party loses control of the senate or the house or both, building a record that people will vote for in 2024 becomes harder, doesn't it? >> i actually think the white house is making a mistake on this. campaigns are won and lost by campaigning on issues that you have an advantage on and not waiting too far into issues you have a disadvantage on. the republicans have a huge advantage on the inflation, on gas prices, on the economy. they have a huge disadvantage, republicans do, on the threat to our democracy. on women's health care choices, on guns. if i were the president of the united states, i would basically say, here's the threat to america today. it's big, it's broad, it's confronted by the republican party. if we turn over the keys to the republican party in the house and the senate, what they did on january 6th and what happened is

only going to get worse. the voter group that's most important in this election who will determine this election are people that dislike donald trump and dislike joe biden. and that group of voters, democrats have an overwhelming advantage on those issues i mentioned. choice, guns and democracy. >> so why do you think that's not the message? >> because i think what happens in white houses is they get very defensive of what they are doing. they want to proof out to what they are doing even if it's not the right election strategy. they want to prove out what they are doing is the right thing. and you can make an argument on the economy that all of what joe biden has been done is helpful. and you can make an argument that inflation is a global problem. there's not a lot we can do specific to a country. the problem with that is when you get defensive on those issues and try to explain you're

not offensive on the other issues. so if i were advising the white house, i would say make this a big argument on the fate of our democracy and we cannot turn over the country to the republicans who have no interest in holding anybody accountable that threatens our democracy. that's what the race should be about if the democrats. to win. >> thank you all very much. we'll get the latest from capitol hill where the january 6th committee has officially postponed round three of its public hearings. former doj officials were expected to take the stand amid mixed messages from committee members on potential criminal referrals. you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. no, he's seizing the moment with merrill. moving his money into his investment account in real time and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company.

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12 weeks of powerful protection, nearly 3 times longer than any other chew. bravo, bravecto! bravo! think he's posting about all that ancient roman coinage? no, he's seizing the moment with merrill. moving his money into his investment account in real time and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. the january 6th committee hearing scheduled for tomorrow was abruptly postponed. the committee saying they need a little more time to get some evidence together, especially all those videos that they are compiling of testimony and events from the attack on the capitol. and now questions about what comes from these hearings. the chair said yesterday there would be no criminal referrals from the investigation. followed by tweets from two committee members. liz cheney saying no decision has been made yet and elaine

luria saying if criminal happened, it's their responsibility to report it to doj. with me now is msnbc legal analyst glen kushner and tim o'brian. anybody who has put together anything and you have done trials. what they are doing with this committee was complicated. so maybe this postponement as they maybe even getting in more stuff isn't probably a terrible surprise, but one thing we do know because during this hour, attorney general merrick garland said yesterday afternoon he and his prosecutors are watching these hearings very closely. as a case, what might they be learning to help them with any potential criminal charges. >> yesterday, i think the american people and the federal prosecutors who are handling the insurrection investigation learned a little something a about donald trump's motive to

engage in the conduct. and to give birth to the big lie and the early morning hours of november 4. i think it was worth noting prosecutors never have to prove motive to hold somebody accountable for a crime. we need to prove that a crime has been committed. we need to prove the identity of the perpetrator, the person who committed it beyond a reasonable doubt. and we need to prove that the person had the requisite criminal intent when they were engaged in the conduct that institutes the crime. but we never have to prove motive. that's why somebody committed a crime. a rare exception like in hate crimes case where is we need to prove motive, but what we got from other members of the committee and witnesses in the last public hearing was evidence of donald trump's motive. we sort of assumed all along that one of the reasons donald trump wanted to retain the power of the presidency was one kind of feels good. but two, we have this really unfortunate doj policy that

sayhouse can't criminally indict a sitting president. so he could out of jail free if he could win a second term. what we learned in the public hearings and this came to impactly nobody's shock or surprise is that donald trump's motivation was also money. because once he gave birth to the big lie and wrongfully, falsely declared that frankly he did win this trial in the early morning hours after election day, he almost immediately started to try to steal from his supporters, tried to grif his base saying send me money so we can use it to go into the kourlts and fight against this rigged election result. and representatives exposed that motive, the big ripoff, she called it. and when you can prove motive, even though it's not an element of the crime, it goes a long way

to convincing people that he really did commit the crime because there was something in it for him. so i am keenly interested in what we will hear in the next of the public hearings and i'm typically not a bing watcher, but i was disappointed they were going to postpone tomorrow's hearing. having tried big, lengthy cases among others, we often have these bumps along the way because there's so many moving parts with witnesses and testimony and video clips that i'm not all that surprised that they have experienced this little bump in the scheduling road. >> but to glen's point, you wrote, tim, donald trump knew exactly what he was doing on january 6th. explain that. >> bill barr said if trump believed the things he was saying, he must have had a departure from reality. i actually think he correctly frames it. donald trump spent his entire business and political career

fabricating narratives to get away with doing whatever he wants to. even if that involves breaking the rules or breaking a law. and i think he knew full well when he engaged of this idea of the big lie, he knew that was false. he had advisers all around him who were republicans telling him it was garbage. i think barr described it as idiotic and used a word we can't say on television. and he has to be held to account for that. that's why it's so important to look at these proceedings as establishing intent. in a way in that capacity, i think there's almost an audience one for these hearings. >> is that merrick garland? >> it is. i don't think voter who is believe in trut and our maga republicans are going to be swayed by these hearings. historians, it's important for the historical record to get this stuff down.

should be held accountable for that. that relies on merrick garland taking action at the end of the day. >> what do you think? how much more did they have to push sort of the proof for that to happen or do you think there's a an awful lot that he's already got that we don't know? >> they have it buttoned up. if they were being more active, there would be leaks in the media. but he has signalled he's paying attention. he doesn't need a criminal referral from this committee in order to take action. and in fact, i think a criminal referral from a political stand point would be problematic because it has this umbrella hanging over it. it was a democratic referral to the doj and this is a political hit. i actually think from a strategic perspective, it makes great sense for garland to make his own call on this. i hope at the end of the day, he prosecute this is. >> we were just saying we haven't seen each other in

person for like three years. thank you for coming in. aulgs great to have you on the program. former trump lawyer rudy giuliani has not responded to acusations in the january 6th committee hearings that he was trunk on election night. he wrote, i am disgusted and outraged at the outright lie by jason miller and billstep yen. i was upset they were not prepared for the massive cheating. my favorite drink, diet pepsi. he testified before the committee for nine hours last month. that's according to a source familiar with the matter. from yellowstone to chicago, heavy rains, mud slides, extreme heat, massive tornadoes, how the dangerous weather is impacting people all over the united states. you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. g "chrig reports," only on msnbc. inspirel stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it.

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right now, one of the most famous national parks is closed indefinitely and visitor hs to be evacuated. heavy rain washed away roads and led to mud slides. rangers shut down every single entrance because it's dangerous. take a look at this. a house in montana was swept away by the raging yellowstone river. the water broke the home's stilts. heavy yan rain and the snow pack sent water sba the area. as of now, this is the good news, there are no reports of injuries from those floods. and a across the midwest, severe heat is bringing dangerous storms and leaving a trail of destruction behind. tornado sirens were blaring in chicago. fierce winds tearing into the roof of this apartment building in a chicago suburb. the storms are fuelled by a heat dome making its way across the u.s. more than 235 million americans

expected to see temperatures above 90 degrees this week. some cities issuing excessive heat warnings raising concerns over heat-related deaths. the mid-atlantic now facing some of the hottest temperatures in decades. kathy park is live in chicago for us. i like the look of the water behind you. our affiliate in chicago says when you factor in humidity, it's going to feel between 105 and 110. how does it feel and how are people there trying to stay safe? i hear sirens behind you. >> reporter: that is absolutely right. we just started to hear those sirens. we're not sure who is in the ambulance right now, but i can tell you the heat wave has officially arrived here in chicago. at last check, it was 93 degrees and climbing. as you mentioned, when you

factor in the dew point, it feels a whole lot hotter than that. when you look around me here, it looks like a beautiful summer day here in chicago. clear, blue skies and a very inviting lake michigan. and folks for a tuesday afternoon, it seems like they are staying busy and embracing this heat wave. they are seeking the shade. we saw some people take a plunge into the lake. i checked the temperature. it's only about 53 degrees. but after a long, hard jog or a bike ride, that actually feels pretty good. but as you mentioned, this heat wave can be very dangerous. city officials earlier today talked about those dangers. take a listen. >> do not underestimate the health risks of heat and humidity. they are dangerous and in some cases can be deadly. some telltale signs of a heatstroke include a high body temperature of 103 degrees

fahrenheit. dizziness, nausea, headache, a pulse that is rapid and strong, skin that is red, hot and dry and confusion. >> reporter: chris, we should point autothat heat is the number one weather-related kill er in the u.s. with hundreds of heat-related deaths every year. and health officials say please keep a watch on the most vulnerable, including those under 2 years old and the elderly 65 years and older. and for everyone else in this heat wave, probably a good idea to stay hydrated and we're in the light-fitting clothes. like i said, people seem to be enjoying the heat wave for now. >> kathy park, stay cool out there. hydrate. thank you. we've got troubling new details a about what's happening in the southern border. why some mite fwrants are getting seriously hurt at former president trump's border wall.

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. some negotiators are scrambling to finish new gun legislation by the july 4th recess. satisfying democrats without alienating republicans is proving to be tricky. among the issues causing friction, money that would go to red flag laws and plans officials to raise buyers from 18 to 21-years-old. two sources tell nbc news it could cost between between $15 and $20 billion. an aide, a top negotiator, senator john core then says he doesn't believe it will cost too much and isn't sure because the bill will be done. we'll keep you posted on that. illegal border crossings remain at an all time high, el paso seeing an increase in injuries among migrants scaling the wall. they are offering them a ladder to climb to the top. often leaves them stranded with

no way down on the other side. some falling nearly 30 feet in certain sections of that border. joining us now with more on this is julia ainsley, so, what is going on? >> look, ejust got back from el pass so i stood right there, where that woman was loaded in an ambulance. border agents said she had fallen and this is common. they say they now seen 229 injuries just in the el paso sector just since october ranging if foot and ankle, which is likely what they think this woman sustained and also spine injuries, brain injuries and even death. here's what the agent had to tell me when erode along with her last week. >> we are in this area, just like that, that quickly, he was exploited by a person who encouraged her and possibly

forced her to scale the barrier. unfortunately, she fell and she injured herself. the girl was very young. a young little girl. she may be underage. but again, this goes back to how they exploit these migrants. >> so you see there, she is very young. that's a big reason why we would not show you her face. i can tell you, she was in a great deal of pain. we had left this area. all of a sudden we get a report of an injury. she had been left alone at the top of this wall. she says, agent morales, told me a lot of times someone was tied to the top thinking they can scale down on the other side. they use a make-shift heard. when they get up. they night i might not have the upper body temperatures, the temperatures are soaring every day. it can be excrushitying to try to hold on to one of those 30-foot steel beams, they let

go, that's when the injuries occur. one of the many unforeseen consequences of trump's border wall. >> absolutely horrifying, especially for someone that young. that will do it at this hour. make sure you join us every day 1:00 eastern time here on msnbc. stay tuned. katy tur reports last time.

it's good to be with you.

i'm katy tur. the january 6th hearings were in full swing today where the committee unexpectedly said it will delay tomorrow's hearing. what is behind the day? it was set on a fan to corrupt the doj. on thursday, they plan no examine the pressure campaign to get vice president mike pence to stop the certification of the election. there was also word of a new witness. j. michael luttig, a former federal conservative judge who had advised mike pence. while the wide question swirls around tomorrow's delay, yesterday's was focused so intensely on former president trump's refusal to accept the truth the election was fair and he lost that there are real questions about what the committee will do with all of the evidence. will they send a criminal referral for the former president to the department of justice?