plan to address rising costs. meanwhile, stock futures are up this morning, ahead of the key decision from the fed. we could see the largest interest rate increase in nearly 30 years. aimed at fighting inflation. we'll also have the latest in the investigation into the capitol insurrection, including donald trump's efforts to pressure the justice department into helping him overturn the election. >> hold on a second here. >> what? you want to do assessment? >> i think what we need to do is dramatic reading. >> no, i think the story speaks for itself. >> and willie -- did you see "the washington post." >> yes, unbelievable. >> they're something some amazing -- let me get past my tweets about guitars and get down -- >> okay. >> and get down to it. >> this is just rehearsal. >> liz cheney sort of did a preview for the next hearing and

talked about what has been thus far but also talked what is to come. >> what is to come. here's the quote, clark decided - it's like a movie. >> you know, like mussolini or something. >> yeah. >> sort of like al haig. no disrespect. you got to know whether you're a utility, infielder or cleanup -- >> like the justice department. >> he decided they're going to take over the justice department. they're going to wipe out everything. >> and trump. >> they call in rosen -- is it donahue -- >> yeah. >> some of these characters, like him and the other guy who said i don't want to hear two words out of you. we always talk about who should play these characters in the movie? >> who do you think? >> these guys should play the

characters in the movie. listen to this, clark, i've done a lot of very complicated environmental litigation, sir. donoghue, that's right, you're an environmental office, how about you go back to your office and we'll call you when there's an oil spill. >> makes a good point. >> by the way, that happened in the oval office in front of donald trump. i'm going to say, willie -- i'll just talk about myself, i have too often painted everybody with a broad brush. i mean, i don't think we have a whole lot of -- you know, great liberators inside the white house. but when called upon by history, you look at a situation like this, you look at unnamed heroes some in the state department. unnamed heroes in the justice department. unnamed federal judges who quietly work, they're people

that at the proper time stitched this country back together. and we've got to be able to hold those two troops at the same time, that we may not have held a lot of stuff they did. but when called upon, they minded the gap, you know? >> yeah, no question about that, we've talked about that with some of the testimony we've seen or even the person leading the committee, liz cheney, who most progressives who probably watch this show probably don't agree on everything. except the fact that she's put her professional career on the line to run this committee. in the case of donoghue, he really did stand in the door. he had help, to this attorney, will clark, you don't get to go around us and hold a private meeting twice with the president of the united states to plot a coup against the united states. and i should point out one of mr. clark's foundational theories about the election, this is true, was that china was

controlling voting machines through thermostats. >> right. >> oh, my god. >> i wish i was making that up. but that was one of his arguments. >> and you have another example where -- who's the guy who said i don't want to hear two words from you -- >> eric hirschman. eric hirschman, former white house lawyer, by the way, this guy defended donald trump in impeachment. i want all of my friends and family members to know this is a friends and family plan and show, okay, these are all trumpers, and they were all until for donald trump. >> yeah. >> but after trump lost the election, admiral, he keeps -- he says you better get yourself an f'ing lawyer, and i want to only hear two f'ing words from you, orderly transition. i don't want to get too dramatic

here, i think i can because american democracy was on the line, i think mcarthur's speech, this is one of those moments where the line held. >> it is. and, you know, picture, if you will, the founding fathers in that room, in the oval, watching that unfold in front of them. first, they're horrified by the situation in which this republic has found itself benjamin franklin. it's a republic, if you can keep it. >> right. >> boy, is that echoing in the room. and then secondly, they're saying to themselves, boy, this is not how we intended this to turn out. >> yeah. >> that's a pretty powerful moment. and by the way, lay alongside that, maybe the greatest resignation in military history, george washington, he resigned as commander in chief in order to preserve civilian control of the military. a lot of ghosts echoing in that

oval office. >> and voluntarily, decided not to run for a third term. >> correct. exactly. >> setting a tradition that held for a century. so, eddie, the takeaway here for our friends and family that are watching, everybody that's watching and i think for all of us is, government's messy. just like i don't know, sometimes, people say university politics is messy. my mother who played music, choir director, played in churches 30 years said to me, joey, if you ever want to lose your religion, work in a church. yeah, academic politics, what's a great quote about that? >> it's henry kissinger who says, why are the arguments so bitter in the ivory tower?

and kissinger said because the stakes are so small. >> exactly. exactly. but things are messy. but i'll tell you what, at the right time, there were americans that stood up at the end of an election, when donald trump was letting everybody know, i'm going to steal this election, we're going -- we're going to undermine american democracy. you're going to do what i say. and there are actually people like rosen and these other gentlemen, donoghue that stood up to him. >> you know, i think there's a distinction we need to make. there are those folks, with whom i disagree like liz cheney who has the background of disagreements that allow us to disagree. she's committed to the background principles that allow me to argue. all of those folks who stood their ground at those moments, even though they were all in with donald trump, at the moment

their background positions were being questioned, they stood the line. >> they did. >> i think that's really important. committed democracy and folks who are not. >> and that's what, we have to keep that in mind, as we head in day in and day out, and hopefully, we stop having to debate these existential crises which it seems like we've been doing for five years now. i sat in the middle of trump, people say what's the all -- i said, you don't understand, i would vote -- and of course, typically, i would rather have -- let's go -- mike pence to bernie sanders. before donald trump. because there would be constitutional guard rails there. >> uh-huh. >> you know, there are a lot of things about mike pence that i disagree with. bernie sanders -- i think his economic policy would destroy america in about two weeks but guess what, he would respect

madisonian democracy and checks and balances. people don't understand, like donald trump, he's unlike anybody else who's ever held that office. he doesn't respect constitutional boundaries, you used to be -- no, i'm actually the conservative. they were the radicals. they don't understand, this is about ideology -- this is about -- >> -- the truth. >> -- the truth and constitutional guard rails that donald trump didn't feel compelled to work with. >> again, as eddie says, it's an uncomfortable position to be with. actually, mike pence may have saved the country that day. he didis job. and that's what we're hearing in the committee about the pressural plied on vice president mike pence that day. we saw the threats on the capitol and yet he carried out his duty. which seemed like an obvious

thing to many people but he was under tremendous pressure to do it. >> yes, and i don't want to surprise new front of everybody when i do this. >> go ahead. >> for your father's main house -- >> yes? >> i bought a mike pence bust, and we're going to put it on the mantel just for you. >> okay. >> in north florida where i'm from, we call that a big flat lie. >> well, these hearings are really doing an incredible service to democracy and service to our country, there is a bigger problem that we can talk about and that is that there is still a fight for the truth in this country. there are news organizations that refuse to cover this. they don't think it's news. the fact that trump officials, people close to the president are showing that they thought they was completely detached from reality. and they were trying to hold the

line, while our democracy was being pulled apart. like this is not an argument. as tohether or not it is th truth being laid out beforehe es of the american people. it's not an argument that this is an important news story that should be covered by legitimate news organizations. and yet, we have this problem. >> well, but -- i just need to correct one thing. >> yeah. >> they know it's the truth. >> they know it's the truth. >> you said they don't think -- no, they know it's the truth. they know our viewers don't want to see the truth. >> well, maybe they do. >> well, they know the viewers based on their market research don't want to see the truth. yesterday, we were flying up yesterday -- by the way, laguardia, it's beautiful, i love pennsylvania. it's always great to walk in. you know the great thing is, there are a lot of amish workers all they've been doing is -- yep, now, they're getting to handle bags.

delta's new terminal literally -- literally -- >> i love w i love the glory of the dirty bathroom spot. i mean, the fact that you get out to your car within five hours. you know it's the truth. yesterday, we're flying up, as we're flying up to laguardia. >> they have little tvs on the seats. >> to land in lancaster county and walk into queens, flushing meadows, mika's watching a certain news channel. and i will say, i said why are you watching -- don't -- they're talking, swear to god about ozzie osborne. apparently, he's sick. they have analysts coming and talk about ozzie osborne's surgery. >> medical analysts on ozzie

osborne's surgery. and his wife says this surgery will determine the rest of his life. >> all right. >> okay. >> i know that because i got the news, apparently, it was biden's economic crisis. biden's manager problem. biden gas. and they did a good whip around on the economy. but literally three hours -- >> yeah. >> three hours, not a mention of the hearings. not a mention of the news that was breaking after the hearings about the next hearings. >> right. >> not a mention. and there are some journalists that i really respect. at this network, i was watching. i could tell it was painful. i wanted to like call this person who i worked with and be like, how is that for you? like how do you feel? because i bet it's hard. >> and ozzie -- they needed to do the breaking news. >> well, honestly -- >> snorted a line of ants at the -- >> i know so much about ozzie,

he had an atv accident years ago which caused more pain for him. yes. and this surgery is really important. and thought it's so important i watched probably about 45 minutes of programming about it. ozzie osborne. he's going to have a grandchild. he already has one. >> okay. so, i appreciate -- >> it's unbelievable. i'm doing it to prove a point. >> like he does. how is mick -- >> 77 or 78. >> and we'll see if ozzie is on the front. >> mccartney about to turn 80. you would guess they would have never survived -- you know what, they're healthy. i think it's vegetarian, yoga.

oh, the "post" is covering this. do not besmirch the morning "post," this is joe's official newspaper. >> to mika's larger point, to get off ozzie for a moment there is an important point, which is to confront the truth about what happened on january 6th. >> or cover the story. >> and to admit you've been duped when you hear you were sent to the united states capitol while donald trump played golf at mar-a-lago later and went to prison. and you sent your money to donald trump went to trump and at least $250 million probably more, did not go to where it was going. you were sent to jail after the attack on the capitol, and you were duped. >> thank you. and more came out yesterday that was legitimately new about it. this is a bigger problem. i don't mean to focus on one

area, but there's a whole disinformation online that we have people working on covering the news about what is happening with democracy, and there are viewers not getting it. >> yeah. there's the thing, when we talk to our friends and loved one that we respect. you believe the conspiracy theorys and you can't talk sense into it. eddie, there's a reason, and the reason is people plug in to their news source, and if it's disconnected from reality. and if they're literally afraid now to show the truth of what trump's advisers were telling donald trump -- trumpists, they defended him during the impeachment, you know, then they're never going to -- they will know the truth if they seek the truth. if they stay hooked into the disinformation campaign they're never going to get it. >> so this conversation is actually tied to an earlier conversation about safe guards,

constitutional laws and principles, right? how so? because the state, the press, is actually essential to a vibrant democracy, so if the fourth of state is compromised even if one element, one side of it. >> right. >> that's the side. we talk about imperial presidency, gerrymandering congress, and compromised judiciary, the press, the press, this is all part of the crisis we pace. . >> admiral, think about it, the trumpists have done one of two things, one, they trashed the press. to attack the press, constantly write negative stories about me then they had alternate realities that they channel through other media outlets. i'm sorry, it's what strong men do in third world countries. it's what strong men do forever.

it's fewer propaganda. there are massive networks feeding right into it and making money and feeding people lies. >> right. it's out of dictator 101 to break down eddie is exactly right, the forth of state. i go international and think of two things. one is i think about our correspondents people reich richard engel who are over there wearing crumby, not effective protective gear, walking around with an iphone sending us the truth. >> right. >> showing us what's going on. commending the press, talking about the press. eddie's point, the criticality of itis crucial. secondly, think how this is playing in london, in paris, in berlin. >> right. >> in beijing, in moscow, this is undermining us deeply. and to the point of the press, their ability to convey the

story honestly and openly is the truth. and the truth is our best weapon. >> and what they do is, willie, what enemies of press freedom and what people who want donald trump to be a dictator do is, and we've seen it, they'll look through the thousands and thousands of "the new york times" and "washington post" stories. and then they'll find an article that they didn't get right. and then we'll hear about it for weeks. a great example, putin's -- putin putting bounties on the heads of u.s. troops in afghanistan. >> right. >> oh, that's all we heard about. see, this is why you can't trust -- and actually the difference was that one intel agency said, no, not likely that happened. we don't have good information that that actually happened. and another i think it was nsa

versus the cia, and may have said, well, there's a moderate chance. we're not exactly sure, we got it from some sources, maybe it happened, maybe it doesn't. they will comb through thousands and thousands of stories, they find one they got wrong and go to town, this is why you can't, fake news, fake news. and then i will say it, they turn out bullshit every single day. lies every single day. misinformation every single day. and they'll go back and find something that somebody, you know, said two years ago, twisted around. again, it's just pure propaganda. we've got to call it what it is. these are people who want donald trump to be a dictator. they hate american democracy. they hate press freedoms. so they're going to attack the mainstream media. >> or they'll fixate on a story like hunter biden. and say that's the biggest story.

why aren't you covering it? tom winter about all over that story. that's the predicate for everything. as eddie has said, tear down the media, don't believe what you're hearing, none of the reporting in "the new york times" or "washington post" or "wall street journal" is right, particularly when it's negative about me, president trump would say that is really the foundation. >> right. >> discredit the press. now, everything i say is the truth and nothing they say can be believed. >> by the way, if you want to know how bad faith these people are, my friends, i don't know what to do -- there's no -- i'm so confused. so, i'm going to go to china's, call it conspiracy. i can't trust anything. so, i'm going to look at a facebook -- viral facebook post that says that a pig is actually running the state department. and i go, well, there's a really simple answer for that, why don't you just read "the wall street journal"? >> yeah. >> a murdoch newspaper. the best reporters in the

business. >> yep. >> they're down the middle. listen the "times" skews left. they just do. but the "times" has the most extraordinary writers. and it's worth the read. you know that going in there. just like eddie's class. we go to eddie's class, conservative -- eddie's a progressive. but still, he's got a lot of really smart things to tell you. and "wall street journal," really conservative editorial page. but there is a wall between editorial. so, stop your lying, stop acting stupid. >> and pretending. >> you all have post-grad degrees. stop being idiots. stop acting like -- oh, i'm so confused. no, you're not confused. you want to live the lie. you want to bathe in the lie. you want an excuse to go around and lie to your friends.

while you're having dinner with them. to lie with your friends when you're having baseball -- when you're watching baseball games. i'm just telling you, this may be the paper of record for "morning joe." but i'm just telling you, forgive me for saying it again, but this is a bullshit detector right here, all right? it's a murdoch paper. the reporters at the "wall street journal" are as good as it gets. and you have no excuses, if you want to get the straight news, to get it from "the wall street journal." and then, yeah, go either editorial page, it's conservative. and they also call out donald trump's lies on january 6th. >> so, some of the other stories we're covering this morning, a split decision for republican lawmakers who former president trump worked to unseat. we'll have the results from last night's primaries. and a major step forward for

gun safety legislation, as senate minority leader mitch mcconnell voices support for the framework. we're also following the latest from ukraine as russia is closer than ever to taking full control of the epicenter of the conflict in the east. ukraine's president says they need more weapons. the u.s. says they're on the way. and new reaction from the state department after russia extends the detention of american basketball star brittney griner, she needs to come home. let's sneak in a quick break. we've got a lot to talk to you about. we'll give you the details and play the new sound behind the january 6th update we've been talking about. also, the economy, brian sullivan joining us. we'll be right back. at adp, we use data-driven insights

to design hr solutions to help you engage and retain top performers today, so you can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leads to another, yeah, yeah ♪ bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog.

this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish]

it's still the eat fresh refresh, and now subway's refreshing their italians. like the new supreme meats, topped high with new italian-style capicola. that's one handsome italian. uh... thanks. not you, garoppolo! ♪♪ subway keeps refreshing and refreshing and refres-

the economy has really been struggling lately. the stock market is now in the biggest free fall since the start of the pandemic. right now the ticker on cnbc is just showing the lyrics to "everybody hurts." >> this was shot in new york city, t.j. -- brian sullivan, how weak is it going to be today? >> it's a lot. >> well, okay, by the way, automatic for the people, fantastic album named after a diner, by the way, in augusta, georgia. >> uh-huh. >> yeah. let's talk about the markets today. but i've got some breaking news i also want to get to you guys about energy and inflation. president biden sending a letter to about seven oil and gas ceos this morning. we've got a copy of the one of the letters sent. i'm not going to read it it's about a page and a half, shell

exxon, valero and a few others talking about record high profit margins saying you need to raise your output, raise your refining capacity as well. you and your companies have the opportunity to take immediate action to decrease gas. and president biden saying i've directed the secretary of energy to convene on the topic and engage the national petroleum council in the next few days. this is all brand-new, guys. i apologize for looking down. the president looking to bring down gasoline prices. will it work? i don't think so inhe near termeclobal demand is so strong, but they're trying, guys. this is an incredibly inflationary environment. which is why, to your point, we are seeing the stock market tank because inflation and real risk of recession in the next year to 12 months, 18 months is out there. >> all right. cnbc's brian sullivan, thank you

so much. you and i are the only people, admiral, at the table to remember what happened in '74. that really was the start with opec. the embargo. that was the first time we realized it's really beyond our control. president biden can release as much as he wants from the strategic oil reserve. he can do these other things on energy. but this is driven by supply and demand. >> yeah. >> the oil -- the oil companies, and i'm not blasting the oil companies because it made sense during covid, they cut back dramatically in production because demand was way down. >> yeah. >> you can't just turn on the light switch and have oil production ramp right up. >> yeah. and the overlay to everything you just said is geopolitics, right? so, you have covid-induced factors. then you have supply and demand, kind of driven by economic cycle. and then, bang!

>> the post-correct surge. >> and then, bang, right on top of it comes a war in which russia is pushed out of the oil markets, essentially. >> uh-huh. >> and saudi arabia does not step up, as we want them to. and where do you end up? you end up with president biden not only doing what we just heard about, but he's also going to saudi arabia. >> right. >> the trip just announced. that's a smart move. there are some, you know, some negative baggage that will come along with that, understandably. but at the end of the day, you've got to work the geopolitics if you're going to rewire the system, given the supply and demand. >> by the way, it's not just as simple as oil. >> right. >> there are thousands of strategic reasons why we have to figure out a way to work with saudi arabia, including the fact that right now, we have a lot of gold states and other people standing on the sidelines, mika, in this war of -- with russia. one other thing that many of the

oil-producing states are saying, you think it's bad now, it's going to get much worse because china's economy is coming back online, that's going to drive the economy up even more than now which is the prices going up. i understand it, being the first one that the white house has to look like they care, republican or democrat, but not a lot you can do. >> to your point, it's not just oil, it's also agriian products coming out of ukraine, because russia is blockading the black sea. all of that will contribute to the inflationary cycle. i don't envy the president and his toolkit here. >> jonathan lemire how is the white house trying to navigate how they message this, especially the trip to saudi arabia? >> yeah, it's a problematic trip, one the president, we learned, didn't want to really make. he called saudi arabia a pariah state. he was critical of the crown

prince there of jamal khashoggi, the journalist. and at this point, every little bit helps a white house adviser told me. and certainly that trip has other geo strategic implications including iran so there are other reasons to go to the middle east. certainly, gas prices front of mind from the white house. you heard the president yesterday in a fiery speech in philadelphia, to a convention, talking about inflation, recognizing that it is indeed the central focus right now for so many americans including this administration, gas and groceries numbers one and two. costs up across the board. we're all awaiting interest rates. they're certainly the lead on battling inflation by the president knows he has to talk about it and talk about it differently. white house advisers say. they're trying to sharpen their attacks on republicans trying to draw contrasts with their plan, versus what the gop is doing, or should we say, not doing, trying

to stay on the sideline on this issue at times even cheering on inflation. the white house believes. and they're going to push industries as they can including this letter to oil companies today. but at the end of the day, white house advisers know the president's toolkit is pretty empty here. there's not much he can do. it's global inflation. the war in ukraine. overheated economy, post-pandemic. there are so many things out of his control, he's going to try to message this to americans, he can understand the frustrations, he'll do what he can, but he understand the political peril that he and his party face with inflation in the coming months. >> you know, it's interesting who presidents who always take credit for the economy turning around and, of course, do what they can to stop it. so much of it is out of the president's control. and this is really -- if you look again, speaking of "the wall street journal," there's an

editorial, an op-ed, a couple days ago, where it said this is really more on the fed. and the fed perhaps miscalculated, thinking this is transitory. but when you have inflation, you know, when the cows get out of the barn, and if that far out, the only person that can get that cow back in the barn is the fed chairman. ask jimmy carter who lost his presidency because paul volker went in and did what paul volker had to do, he raised rates almost 20%. and he crushed inflation. of course, also crushed jimmy carter. but the economy was saved. and ronald reagan began to enjoy the -- you know, the lower interest rates. and lower inflation. and here we are again. >> and probably too late at this point, but the president started

to take that action likely this week. half a point, some people saying three quarters of the point going up that high to raise the rate. you're right, as the president has to be seen ago doing something. but not a lot in reality, you can go back and look at system muss packages around covid and everything in hindsight, but, boy, there's a slew of things driving this out of control. >> a slew of things, one thing you can look at. you can look at the last covid relief package. but, of course, you know, i'm fine with independent economists doing that. i'm not fine with capitol hill doing that, when they ran the biggest deficits and largest debt. the biggest budgets, the biggest spending programs in the history. republic. so -- >> under a president who thought -- would do the trick --

>> well -- >> i'm just saying trump's covid response was murderous, okay? >> okay. but we're just -- >> well, i'm just saying president biden's covid relief plan, you can't really criticize that without looking at president trump's non-covid relief plans. his complete denial that it even existed, even though he would tell people like, you know, wod woodward, he knew it existed and let all of these people die. there are realities. when things happen in this country that are impacted by global events, it costs money to rectify them. >> by the way, sometimes, hearings the key to a good marriage -- >> wait -- >> -- sometimes, mika just doesn't listen to what i'm saying, right? >> yes. but sometimes, i say something that's quite right and everyone agrees, right? >> you're always right. it was just a nonsequotor.

>> i'm looking forward to your insights on ozzy osbourne. >> i know everything. i know sharon osbourne was crying when she went to the hospital. i saw lots of pictures. >> help me. all right, willie, i guess the point is, what we're saying is -- >> inflation is bad. >> they spent some money, biden, republicans didn't go along, you look at inflation, that's 5%, 10% of pent-up covid demand. $2 trillion on the sidelines during covid. the war, the food crisis, et cetera, et cetera, and ozzy osborne. >> and by the way, democrats know we had senator warnock, and congresswoman demens running for

the senate in florida, there's just no good answer. and they know that's how people are going to vote. let's turn back to the january 6 committee hearing, the next one will take place tomorrow afternoon. the one originally scheduled for today has been postponed. the congresswoman told us yesterday that the postponement was due to technical issues stemming from an overwhelming demand on staff to produce videos we're watching. >> i'm not sure about that. i think you don't want to step on your headlines, admiral. they had some really good headlines coming out of the last hearing. don't step on that, let's let it breathe a couple days right? >> totally. and again, i'm kind of win you, it sounds like pretty thin gruel to say we'll having trouble producing videos. this is the united states of america. if you need more people to produce videos, get them in

there to do it. we've got that technology. >> let's talk about the last segment, starting with joe's dramatic reading. we're getting new details about former justice department's jeffrey clark in his effort to help donald trump overturn the 2020 election. "the new york times" is first to report a tense meeting inside the oval office in which trump considered replacinging then acting attorney general with jeffrey clark. the plan never materialized because justice department officials threatened to resign if rosen was dismissed. now, "the washington post" has pieced together this puzzle better. rosen reportedly told the senate judiciary committee that he and clark clashed after rosen refused to sign on to a letter to georgia lawmakers urging them to send to congress an alternate slate of electors supporting trump. the following day, just three days before the january 6 attack on the capitol, rosen told the committee, clark said the

president offered him rosen's job and that he would take it. rosen would be replaced in days. and the justice department would, quote, chart a different path. rosen says he told clark, quote, i don't get to be fired by someone who works for me. rosen says he then requested to meet with trump. soon after, rosen, clark and then acting attorney general richard donoghue were in the oval office. according to the deposition, trump told clarkful he became attorney general he would conduct real investigation that would in his view uncover widespread fraud. the "post" reports that they repeatedly said, you two haven't done anything. you two don't care. you haven't taken appropriate action. everyone tells me i should fire you. well, suppose i do this.

trump said, what would you do? sir, i would resign immediately. donoghue said. clark specializes in environmental law. when one time trying to state his qualifications, donoghue shot back, how about you go back to your oil and we'll call you when there's an oil spill. trump asked another official, steve engle, steve, you wouldn't resign, would you? absolutely i would, mr. president. you would leave me no choice. and then what happens within 48 hours wes have hundreds of resignations from your justice department what does that say about your leadership. trump reportedly turned to clark, thanked him for his willingness and told him he would keep the current leadership in place. >> wow. >> so, admiral, what's most frightening about this. >> there are a lot of things we've already said to feel good about, people that stood in the

gap. but what's most frightening, and the guys in the article mentioned it. we worked for him. he's a level-headed guy. harvard law -- no, harvard undergrad. georgetown law school. bush justice department, kirkland and ellis, they knew him -- they're like, this isn't the rue he was. another example of somebody put in this position who lost their head. >> yeah. >> who became power hungry and were willing to trash the constitution. and actually get in the way of the peaceful transition of power for the first time in american history. >> yeah. the phrase, it shocks the conscience really comes to mind. and the idea that this environmental lawyer, despite the pedigree and so on, this environmental lawyer would float over and become the attorney

general would be me playing power forward for boston celtics in game six. and i've 5'6" tall. i'm small, but i'm slow. >> exactly. >> in any event, that's absurd. you don't put people in those crucial jobs because they raise their hand and say, gosh, i'd be a great attorney general. power corrupts absolutely. you see it on display. it's the human drama unfolding in front of us. >> yeah, you know, eddie what he just said, my coach at prince catholic high school, how are the crusaders going to do this year? he said, let me tell you something, they're small, but they're slow. >> okay. >> and he was right. but, eddie, again, there's so it's throughout history where people are called upon to rise. to greatness.

or to just fall. and we have seen it too often. and you have -- anne applebaum wrote a great story, instead of doing what happened in nazi, germany, it's too stark. she looked at the difference between east germany and west germany. and who pushed back in east germany. and then she took is to, if you had said before the trumble trump crisis, if you put mitt romney and lindsey graham together, no one would have ever guessed that it would have been mitt romney that actually was the outsider who dared to stand up to power. because that's where it came from. and that lindsey graham, a guy who served, a guy who was an attorney in the military, a guy who came from humble beginnings would actually be the one to

suck up to power and disregard -- let's just say the constitution of the united states time and time again. in this country's greatest hour of need since the civil war. >> yeah, yeah. what's interesting, the characters that are emerging at least in my mind, right. there are those folks who are holding the line as we talked about, the folks committed to the constitutional principles. then there's incompetence, folks running around who don't know anything. >> right. >> and then folks whose souls have been distorted by political power. and that combination of incompetence and those folks who are just sker sidesing the will to power, right, created a firestorm. to mix my metaphors. >> imdeed. and you know what we're seeing also only display here is the difference between leadership and character. leadership is how you influence others. it's a big door that swings. but that big door swings on a

small hinge of character. that's what's in the human heart. and what we're seeing here is a failure of that hinge of character in the face of eddie's point, the witch's brew of power. >> let's get more on this new reporting from investigative reporter at the "washington post" carol leonnig. carol, it's an incredible tiktok that you've put together at the "post" about this meeting with donoghue out on the mall in a t-shirt and jeans, he rushes into the oval office without time to change and get back and talk to the president and try to intervene in the madness taking place. let's step back for a minute, who exactly is jeffrey clark? and this as simple as a guy down the chain of command, way down, getting a whiff of power, having the ear of the president and saying i'm going to do whatever it takes to perhaps become the neck attorney general including to promote theorys as i mentioned in a memo from rosen

to donoghue that the chinese were controlling voting machines with internet connected thermostats in the united states. and donoghue dismissing that out of hand? >> just a great article by my colleague here at the "washington post." and one at the department of the justice telling jeffrey clark maybe he should go back to his office and they'll call him when there's an oil spill. because he has no qualifications to be an attorney general. he has no criminal prosecution record, nothing to even qualify him to talk about an investigation of election fraud which he promises he will deliver to donald trump which is also a huge red flag. when i investigate it, we'll find a ton of, you know, widespread fraud, that's kind of a worrisome thing for someone to say. i will just answer your question, willie, your smart question, by saying that this is

an attorney who had a very conservative history and record. even after leaving georgetown. and at kirkland and ellis, while at this very respected firm was viewed as being pretty conservative, although level-headed as joe mentioned earlier. what is so interesting about him is he is sucked in to the president's vortex. president donald trump at the time is essentially, everyone in the administration, behind the scenes, who had any enter action with donald trump knew what he wanted to hear. there is fraud. this election can be overturned. and when jeffrey clark said that, he was invited to the oval office rather quickly. >> right, absolutely. and, carol, give us a sense of what we can expect in the next hearings. but also in these conversations, i think what we see for the first time is real dialogue between people who are holding the line. that's something that we all

sort of tried to figure out what was going on in there. we weren't sure that was happening. it was happening. >> yes, such a smart point, mika. this idea and now i see donoghue and rosen, especially in this narrative where they're basically saying, are you crazy, mr. president? what is it going to look like when everyone in the justice department is resigning days before this great rally you're planning for january 6th? what's that going to say about your presidency? there are a half dozen people and donoghue and rosen are among them, along with vice president pence, that if t had done anything differently in those days leading up to the insurrection, the attack on the capitol, if they had done anything differently just by a hair's breadth, you know, joe biden might not be president today. the people that -- the person that the american people chose to be president might not be in

the oval office. >> carol, can you elaborate on that? carol, that is so important that people realize, people like me say, oh, the center is going to hold. we're going to get through this. we have a strong constitutional republic. great checks and balances. but you see in the story that we're still here, as a constitutional republic, we're still here as a nation that doesn't throw out elections when one side doesn't like the outcome. because of some people that almost every american has never heard of before who have quietly -- quietly worked, you know, as the storm is gathering and quietly worked and furiously worked. and i think most importantly stood up to an angry president at the very time we needed them to do that. >> you know, it's such an

important point, joe. and it's like on the continuum. everyone may or may not remember alexander vindman. a man listening to a phone call between president trump and president zelenskyy in ukraine. he's just in a basement office of the national security council. and he stands up and says, wait a minute, what the president just asked the ukraine leader to do, investigate an american citizen who happens to be named joe biden and his son hunter biden, that seems like a crime to me, i need to report this. that's standing up. well, in this case, fast forward to 2021, you have, as the transfer of power is about to happen, it's only, you know, maybe 17 days away, donoghue and rosen, the acting attorney general say, not on my watch. if you remove me as attorney general, if you hire this gone,

we're gone. it must have been quite a thing to say that to the president who everyone knew wanted one answer. you will announce corruption and fraud in this election. and then as trump said, i'll do the rest. i'll take care of the rest. just have a press conference. he wanted to sow doubt, kind of like tobacco companies wants to sow doubt about, you know, cancer being caused by smoking cigarettes. and if the president could do that, he could unsettle and disturb the ultimate transfer of power. that's what he believes he could do. >> yeah. >> and vice president pence, to your good question, did the same thing. once rioters broke into the building and president trump put a target on vice president pence's back and people were chanting to hang mike pence, pence said, you know what, i'm going to stay in this building and i'm going to certify this election. >> here here.

"the washington post's" carol leonnig. >> thank you, carol. >> i just wanted to add one person, mitch mcconnell who everyone wanted to break. mcconnell said, to hell we're going to break. we're going to stay here. and again, extraordinary progressive people locked in a room with him who have not vouched for mitch mcconnell. who said everybody wants to go. mitch mcconnell said we're not moving. incredible times. i want to say other things, too. she was talking about vindman. i remember after 9/11, there was if you see something, say something. an extraordinary column i remember 20 years later on that very content. but that's what will we have here, whether it was vindman, whether it was donoghue, you have these people who saw something, admiral, and they said something. >> exactly right. we're talking about that difference between leadership and character.

john wooten, a great basketball coach said character is what you do when you think no one is looking. in that quiet moment inside your heart, you make the right decision. sometimes, that comes out. more often, it does not. but at the end of the day, what you do in that quiet moment is who you are. and i think we saw that on display in the oval office. >> and speaking of, admiral, we also have you here to talk about the latest ongoing in the russian invasion of ukraine. and the russians making gains in the east. this dragging out painfully long and quite frankly holding the war hostage. may not be a world war in the grand scheme of things by definition. but the world is stuck in this war. giving us the latest, in terms of troop movements, militarily aid headed to ukraine. and where the russians are right now. >> and what we need to do to help. >> yeah. >> good news and bad news as

usual. bad news, putin has consolidated his forces that allows him to overcome some of these logistic challenges that he faced when he failed so miserably at the start of this thing. now, he's concentrated in the close southeastern. he's kind of closing a pincher moving around that center of the red zone you just showed on the map. that's the bad news. the good news is, this foot race, and you just alluded to it, joe, to put the right wells in the hands of ukrainians is continuing to move in the correct direction. particularly the addition of artillery, all of that will allow president zelenskyy -- by the way, speaking of character -- will allow the ukrainians to reach back and intercept some of the logistics going forward. bottom, look for a static land front. and i'll close with this, look

to the sea for the next big movement here. we'll call that the black sea fleet blockading. as a result of that getting out of ukraine, the next big mission set to analyze and think about will be should leave the west open a corridor and escort that grain out. that could lead to a confrontation. watch the sea. that's where things will go. >> add stavridis, thank you soap. his newest book. >> great book. >> on breaking news, brian sullivan reported just moments ago, the head of the u.s. department of energy secretary jennifer granholm will be our guest to talk president biden's plans. five states held five primary elections yesterday. steve kornacki is back at the big board to break down

elections across the country including the splittics for u.s. congressional candidates in south carolina backed by trump. we're back in 90 seconds. and, we're back! it's time to see which chew provides the longest-lasting flea and tick protection. bravecto's the big winner. 12 weeks of powerful protection, nearly 3 times longer than any other chew. bravo, bravecto! bravo!

all right. it's the top of the hour. look at this beautiful shot as we begin the second hour of "morning joe." there's three more, guys. it's wednesday, june 15th. >> three more airports? >> three more hours. >> t.j., what else do we look at? >> national airport. >> chamber of commerce day. very exciting. very excited to be in the big apple. >> it's good to be here. so inside to be here. >> there's mika with that shot -- >> you guys, to beat a dead horse -- >> oh. >> sammy. >> can i just say something about sam stein? >> i think he's the cutest thing in the world. >> we -- >> thank you. >> i've been first to admit we've not always been nice to

you your son, mrs. stein. >> we have too much -- >> we're a little hard on him. >> i think three people -- if i think over the past years. the three people, sam stein, donny deutsch, he asked me to -- he said, i know, it's horrible. >> but sam, one of the tech people, sam, remember when we just called him out really bad on the air? >> yeah. >> and he had to leave. he had to leave. >> he had a counterpunch. i'd go like this and he'd go -- >> sam, we're sorry. >> sam, we apologize. we're tough. we're tough on you. how are your parents doing? >> they're great. first of all, it's not mrs. stein, it's dr. stein. >> thank you, it is. >> she worked -- she worked hard. >> she did. >> she is dr. stein. >> thank you.

>> doctor. >> oh, my god, be quiet. >> i know. okay. i've got an edge about that. i'm not done, how's your dad doing? do we need to insult your dad, sam? >> no, you don't need to insult my dad. he's doing great. coming on his 80th birthday. incredible. >> i'm glad to hear. we have a couple red sox fans here. >> yeah. >> let's get jonathan lemire in the picture and willie. >> we should be mean to lemire. he doesn't get enough. >> transfer your rudeness to lemire. >> i think so. if we could have the three-shot of willie, sam stein and jonathan lemire. >> why willie? willie is equally cool to them, isn't he? >> this is a segue right now. what are they doing -- did i

just ask for cold fusion here? where's sam? >> oh, my goodness. >> it's a rocky road. >> this is great tv. >> i just asked t.j. to crack the code for "cold fusion." >> i want to talk about the economy. >> mika, that's not going to happen right now. anyway, lemire, let's just face it, it doesn't matter how well the red sox do, the yankees are going to keep winning. we should just give it to them. there's no way to catch up, you're the greatest team of all time. it's all over, right, lemire? >> yeah, i'm willing to cede the peaceful transfer of power here from the red sox. 12 1/2 games out, something like 23-10 in the last 30 plus games and we've lost ground to the yankees and $700 million payroll in that time fm. >> 23-10 -- we had a great run. >> yeah. >> went 8-2 on the west coast.

still didn't pick up any games on the yankees. you guys are just too good. and as richard haass says, it's over. >> i know. i want to hear two words from you -- orderly transfer. hand it over right now. you know what they're doing this year -- they're pitching. these are red sox highlights. yankees won 2-0 against the rays. gerrit cole is lights out. they're hitting the ball. now, look, it's a very long season as we all know, there have been some injuries, some on the dl. jays will play better, they'll cream up. but i'm not talking the haas position that the season is over and we'll hand the yankees the world series. by the way, let's not sleep on the mets across town. >> oh, my gosh. >> the greatest pitchers. >> that's record in the national league without those pitchers. >> you know what has made the

greatest difference for the yankees, you get rid of a pitch here would drink a pdr -- the yankees may have been one of the laziest baseball teams since the early '70s when they all smoked cigarettes in the dugout. >> gary, god love him, he was a stabber, he'd try to stab at the ball and go as the runner advanced. but we love him. >> you guys did not look athletic last year. big difference this year. >> yeah, yeah, they're playing great defense. i get it, i'm not going to jinx them. the yankees very good. also considering the mets have a bigger payroll, the dodgers have a bigger payroll. >> oh, come on. former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele is with us. great to have you, michael. >> michael, are you the orioles

or the nats. >> nats. >> okay. we've got a lot to get to. okay, we start with new details surrounding what we're learning about the next january 6th committee hearing which will now take place tomorrow afternoon. the focus will be on former president trump's efforts to pressure former vice president mike pence into overturning the 2020 election results. vice chair of the committee, congresswoman liz cheney teased ahead to the hearing in a new video posted on twitter. >> in our next hearing on thursday, the select committee will examine president trump's relentless effort on january 6th and in the days beforehand to pressure vice president pence to refuse to count lawful electoral votes. as a federal judge has indicated this likely violated two federal criminal statutes. president trump had no factual basis for what he was doing. and he had been told it was illegal.

despite this, president trump plotted with a lawyer named john eastman and others to overturn the outcome of the election on january 6th. to give you a sense of the gravity of these issues, here's a clip of one of president trump's own white house lawyers eric hirschman who talked to mr. eastman the day after january 6th. >> it was the day after. eastman -- i don't remember why he called me, or he texted me or he called me, wanted to talk with me, he said he couldn't reach others. and he started to ask me about something dealing with georgia, preserving something, potentially for appeal. and i said to him, are you out of your f'ing mind.

and i said, i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth from now on, orderly transition. and he said, i don't want to hear any f'ing words coming out of your mouth, other than orderly transition. repeat those words to me. >> what did he say? >> eventually, he said orderly transition. he said, good, john. now, i'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. get a great f'ing criminal defense lawyer. you're going to need it. >> then he hung up. >> then he hung up on him. what did you do then? he hung on me in the movie, eric herchmann should play eric. he defended him in the impeachment, i think in the first impeachment trial. but, sam, that's what's so compelling here, is they're not getting lefties from you know,

ivy league law school professors lounges. these are full-on trumpers. these are people who defended donald trump during impeachment. these are people who did his bidding and when it came to january 6, then they shut it down. which, again, makes it even harder for donald trump, makes it harder for all of the trump media outlets to say, oh, this is just a left wing operation. >> well, yeah, if you're a trump-leaning media, either you have another option which is you don't air it, right? you saw that the first night of the hearing. but, yeah, to your point, these are not true liberals. these are people who served with trump. bill stepien, jason miller come out and say, yeah, this was crazy and we told him so. these people have some currency in maga land. and to the degree that it helps

convince people that there were team normal at the time stepien said, that's good. the problem is i don't know how much of a universe of convincible people are out there. let me say this, if i refer myself needing to like someone, i'm going to outsource liz cheney. she's very good at it. her presentation has been impeccable. the video clips are compelling. and the way she handled herself during the hearings, you could not ask for a better prosecutor. but again, to have these numbers to get it done, the universe of people who are willing to change their mind about this is very small. the key here is what i think liz cheney is getting at in her video messages, the people they want to convince in the justice department, they're working on

this and observing of course, merrick garland. the key line, there is a judge who has deemed this illegal conduct. i think that was more than just a wink to merrick garland who is a trumpette who said pick up the baton here. >> that's exactly right, to get on the report for history for make it undeniable, as it's done in the facts of the case, the facts that led up to january 6, the facts that happened from video from witness testimony, as joe said, that comes from inside the oval office. that comes from inside the white house. that comes from republicans who are on board with just about everything else donald trump until this point. so, sure, fox may not broadcast it. there are corners of facebook where they're going to say this is a circus. united states senators are saying that as well. but the fact is, as sam said, they are prosecutors on this trial making a case. and i've talked to a bunch of members of congress who have been pleasantly surprised at the

lack of grandstanding, how prosecutorial this has been which is different from working in congress for a long time what we're used to seeing for a congressional hearing. >> yeah. i think a lot of that goes to the fact that the members of the committee have seen now two examples of the effort to prosecute, if you will, to use that word, donald trump on the things that he's done, the two impeachment trials. to see the hearings that have taken place regarding members of the administration. and it has always been played publicly as that, political grand standing. and you've had members on the committees at times show more of their political biases than, you know, playing balls and strikes. what they've done very effectively here, led by liz cheney in the way she's comported herself and brought forth the conversation to the american people is to show this is of such a gra nature, that

there is no space here for politics. that there is no, you know, foothold that those who claim that this is nothing more than a witch hunt or nothing more than a political gamble by democrats to go in and sort of poison the evidence. so, they've been very careful about that. they've been very direct about that. and liz cheney, to her immense and enormously important credit, at the very outset looking at the camera and said specifically to republicans, the guy you've been following whose behind you've been kissing will be gone, but the imprint of your lips will remain effectively, right? that stain is going to be there on you, on your legacy as a party. and as members of the house and the senate who comported themselves in the way that dishonored the constitution. and i think, you know, she's

held up that end of the conversation with the american people to show exactly and expose exactly who these people are. and how they, more so than trump in many cases, fomented insurrection, pushed that narrative along and here we are. >> and eddie guad, this is standing along with adam kinzinger. there is has been over time, ted cruz, kevin mccarthy saying this is the past. look at biden's economy. whatever. i want to know what they're saying?

and what networks would be covering this wall to wall, if this exact act happened but it was black lives matter protesters? >> yeah. >> the hypocrisy is so obvious but at the same time, it makes me really sad because the assault on our democracy and on our process is something that both sides should care about. >> absolutely. we know liz cheney is fighting for a political life right now. >> she doesn't care. >> i can't believe i'm saying this about liz cheney, but this is true. but i want to say this about these folks who held the line. human beings are complex. there's an interesting thing about those republicans who supported donald trump and that dishonor will remain after he's gone. even those folk who stood the line who stopped the coup, what did they do afterwards? >> i know. >> we talked about this with bill barr. we've talked about this with other folks. with mike pence.

in other words, there are folks -- there's the right thing to do and the right thing to do easily shades into the right thing to do for me. there's one moment where you do the right thing and another moment when you're acting out of your own sense of political livelihood as it were. and that's the complication. even though you have folks standing the line, joe, you also have folks not coming out, saying what they should have said before the committee in realtime when it was happening. and it's that complexity we have to wrap our minds around. >> let's bring in a member of the january 6th committee investigating the attack on the capital, democratic congressman adam schiff. congressman, thank you for being here. the hearing delayed a day. we heard over the congresswoman

it was so far a video matter. is that all it's about? >> it's just logistics really, it's not about any witness difficulties or any division of the committee. we just like to make sure that we received in the most orderly way that we have the most professional hearing as possible and so we're making adjustments. mostly, this is a logistical matter. >> let's look ahead to tomorrow's hearing, with the vice president pence and the leadup to january 6th. what can people expect to see and hear that we don't know already? >> well, i can't get into too many specifics, as you've seen before, it will be a mix of things that the public knows. new information about the pressure campaign, potentially new images. new deposition testimony. you know, interwoven in a way that tells the story. because, i think among the most

important things we're doing in these hearings, we're showing how one thing related to another. how one pressure campaign related to another. how this effort built and built, until there was his last-ditch effort to stop the counting on january 6th that led to violence. and the pressure campaign against the vice president. is a very integral part of that. there are multiple lines of efforts to overturn the election. any one of them could have failed which would have resulted in a constitutional crisis. so you can expect to see stuff you haven't seen before, interwoven with things you have to tell a compelling story i hope. >> congressman schiff, jonathan lemire, we heard the comical rantings and ravings of rudy giuliani. in the last hearing, we talked about the department of justice to use doj inappropriately in order to throw out results,

claim out investigations and use that as an impetus to contain the hold on power. talk to us about doj, subject to the upcoming hearing, but also more broadly what they have found about the efforts to use the levers of government itself to try to stay in power? >> well, i think is this going to be a very important hearing next week. we saw at the very end, the pattern that we've seen throughout much of the trump presidency, that is when he didn't get the answers he wanted he would sack people. in this case, there was an effort to decapitate the leadership of the justice department that wouldn't go along with this effort to overturn the election. wouldn't essentially push out to the states false claims of massive fraud. wouldn't question the election the way donald trump wanted. but there was no evidentiary basis for it. and yet, also, part of the story is jeffrey clark and there seems to be jeffrey clark's multiple

points at this spot, people willing to do anything to cede power, to hold power, to advance themselves for their career. so, i think it's a really important part of the story. the justice department is supposed to stand for justice. and here there was an effort, at the very top of the president on down to use that department to defy the interest of justice. >> and congressman, it's sam stein here, it strikes me there's two parallel story lines going on around january 6th. one is the work that you and the rest of committee is doing right now. and the second with what's happening around the country with the election, with a lot of republican candidates who believe the big lie. and a lot who have said they would not have certified the 2020 election. i'm wondering how is that informing the work you do? and also do you think that you may have moved too slowly in

getting this stuff out to the public in that there are these people who are critical offshoots in the next election? >> well, on the first point, i think it showing the enduring importance of the work we're doing. that the big lie didn't end on january 6. that the big lie has promoted to this day. and therefore, parts of the hearings that we've been demonstrated where we show it is a big lie. that donald trump knew he had lost. that he pushed his claims anyway. and he pushes them to this day. i think it shows more important than ever that we get that good information out. i also think in terms of, you know, if we wait too long, no, the investigations have a pace of their own. gives you time to accumulate the evidence that we have accumulated. and we didn't want to present it until we knew if not all of the facts, enough of the facts, and to show the country, you know,

the conclusions that we're reaching about the president's role in this pot. but we are -- and this to me is a fundamental point -- our democracy today is more vulnerable than it was on january 6th because of the lie that brought about that violence continues to proliferate around the country in just the manner that you said. >> all right. adam schiff, a member of the january 6th select committee. >> thank you. >> thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. and, sam, to underline adam's point, the congressman's point, i'm looking at the new polls you brought to us today. >> yeah. >> and much of the numbers pretty much unchanged. a little bit here, a little bit there. mike pence, actually responsibility drops ten points from 37 to 27% from january 21 to june 22. but i go over to the next poll which talks about -- and trump's ticks down a little bit but that's mainly because of republicans where in january

2021, 41% of republicans blamed trump for january 6th. that has dropped to 29% now. proving that, again, two-thirds of the republican party all in on the big lie. >> yeah. i mean, it's not just the voters. we now have contemporaneous reporting that the elected officials themselves, kevin mccarthy, lindsey graham, mitch mcconnell, they all blame trump privately after january 6th. they all wanted him gone. they all committed to their colleagues that they would encourage him to resign. implicit in that was them saying trump was responsible for what happened on that day. and now, of course, we're, you know, a year and a half removed from it, and they're implicitly supportive of trump. so it's not just the gop electorate, it's the gop-elected officials as well who have taken it away from trump and applied it elsewhere. >> i want to get to michael steele and get his reaction. first, interesting gun

legislation polling. numbers are exceedingly high. they're all 80s. ban sales, red flag laws, require a three-day waiting period, 81%. require guns to be stored in safe units, 76%. ban high capacity magazines, 69%. ban them completely, 66%. ban them on schools, college camps, 66%. the takeaway, numbers are high. like the background checks. you attempt to ask yourself has any organization ever perverted the american democratic process than the nra when you have one issue after other, 60%, 70%, 80% support from the american people. i guess a more pertinent question to ask is has any political party ever ignored the will of the american people on any issue? and most remarkably, on a public safety issue like this? >> i mean it feels like we're

having deja vu here. how many times have you and i and the rest of the crew talked about these polling numbers in the wake of a mass shooting and wondered what is going on in terms of stoppage of political progress. in this case it's different obviously because we have a tentative gun legislative framework coming out of the senate. and it doesn't include provisions that have immense popularity in the poll. and to your point, yes, the politics of this have been warped tremendously. the republican party has committed to the idea, the proposition, that if they were to, you know, sign onto far-reaching gun legislation it would be to political peril. all i can say, we have sort of an experiment with this in florida in the wake of the nightclub shooting then governor rick scott signed legislation that raised the age of selective purchase of 21. and he did not suffer. he's now in the united states senate. scott says this is something

that a state should take up individually. but i think that sort of proves your point which is maybe the lure of the nra's power on this is misplaced. >> i think, michael steele, we look at florida, at parkland, one that passed gun legislation. there are conservative members of the congress who voted for banning of military-style weapons. they all got re-elected. every one of them. you go to connecticut, representatives of sandy hook passed some of the most sweeping gun laws in america. and just out and out gun control laws. up in connecticut, those legislators all got re-elected. again, i'm kind of curious how the nra continues this lie. supporters say you won't get re-elected. it's just not the truth. >> it's not the truth. and they do it through two means. one is the threat of an opponent in a primary. and the other is the withdrawal

of cash. they have flooded the gop market with a lot of money over the years. it was the ftc filings for any member of the united states senate from mcconnell on down and you will see how deeply those tentacles reach. and, of course, if you want to continue the narrative around the idea of fear about those things that are important to you like cash and your re-election, this is the way you do it. and you dangle this out in front, even though the evidence has shown by senator scott and others will tell you something very, very different. that there is not a penalty for doing the right thing in this space, joe. as the polling shows. how will you get unelected on a 70% issue? how do you get unelected in an 80% issue? it's all b.s. and they know it. and yet the party continues to

perpetuate the lie around it. because it's cash. and primary votes. and so, hopefully, some of this fever is starting to break. you've got a growing effort out there among -- staunch gun owners like yourself, joe and others, who are taking a different narrative. very strong second amendment conservatives like joe walsh who are moving into a different space. and partnering with, you know, folks like david hogg and others to move this narrative. so, there's some real opportunities here. and, of course, you know the gun owners of america is really challenging the supremacy, the promise of the nra. so there's a lot of vibration in this space. >> yeah. >> polling strengthens that vibration in a way that we haven't seen in a long time. and that's that this time is different, it appears. >> yeah, speaking of lies. and 70%. you look at sam's poll, 70% of

the republican party, my former party, 70% of my former party, do not believe that donald trump is responsible for the events of january 6th. that number's dropped by 10, 11, 12 points. you know, we've been blaming kevin mccarthy, lindsey graham, all of these republicans for being such cowards through the years. and blamed them after pretending their mind after january 6th and they should have never done it. there is no doubt, though, they are looking at the lincoln file of the republican party. you know what, just tell me your lies, tell me sweet little lies is what they're saying. to their -- to their members of congress. they want to be lied to. so this is like, we can blame the politician. it's the rank and file of the republican party. they like living the lie when it comes to january 6th. they want to avert their eyes from the truth. they know the truth.

they can live in the light, to paraphrase the bible scripture, but they choose the darkness when it comes to january 6. >> all right. politico's. >> michael steele. >> go ahead, michael. >> they do, and what is very sad and compelling about that is not only is the tail wagging the dog, it's choking the life out of the dog. and the reality of it is, the members, the leadership, have ceded the most important opportunity they have, and that is -- as we've seen at difficult times in the past when the john birch society tried to take a foothold in the party. when the party tried to lean all into the southern strategy and there was resistance. that resistance now has been broken down. and we are where we are because this is where we want to be. and now, you know, unlike folks like yourself, joe, who have left, those that remain like myself, are re-evaluating and

evaluating and saying to themselves, okay, what's next. denver riggleman a former congressman for virginia just this week said adios. so you're seeing the corpse rot in a way that the stench is it too great. there's nothing really salvageable left. and here we are. and i think that's because the leadership, not only failed, but just said, yeah, this is okay. we'll do more of this, the big lie, all of it works for us, as we're back again as the january 6th commission is telling us, the grift works. there's too much cash gets into pockets. and too many that they're willing to sacrifice because the most important thing for them, unlike what we see with liz and adam kizinger. dam

dammit, i've got to keep this seat. i'm nothing. >> not putting the country first. politico's sam stein coming on. and dr. fine -- dr. stein. >> thank you, sam. >> she's wonderful, by the way. and next time i see her, she's great. okay. speaking of the gun legislation, we'll note that senate minority leader mitch mcconnell offered his support for the proposed framework. still ahead, more from the president's fiery speech on the economy, blaming republicans for standing in the way of recovery and asking what ideas do you have? and we'll tell you about eddie guad's new project.

and we'll be right back. dry skin is sensitive skin, too. and it's natural. treat it that way. aveeno® daily moisture with prebiotic oat is proven to moisturize dry skin all day. you'll love our formula for face, too. aveeno®. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements,

which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪ every year we try to exercise more, to be more social, to just relax. and eating healthy

every single meal? if only it was this easy for us. daddy, is that where we're from? well, actually, we're from a lot of places. see, we're from here, and there... give dad a gift worth sharing, at ancestry.com

we've been streaming all day from every room. the power and speed of this super-sonic wifi from xfinity is incredible. mom! mass speeds was my idea, remember? get minion net, with speeds of up to one minion bite per hour. [ low screaming ] but that was an epic fail. with xfi we can stream, share, swipe, like... impress your mom with super-sonic wifi. it's unbeatable internet for a more unbeatable gru. i mean, you.

♪♪ it's 38 past the hour, why we're hearing jay z? because a moment from monday night's nba finals in san francisco where jay z was in the crowd. and he may be a music legend but to his daughter blue ivy. he's just another embarrassing dad. >> back with us today, here at j center tonight, 24-time grammy award-winner, the one and only jay z! >> she's like, no. my hair. okay. very cute moment. >> eddie, we want to hear about

your new project. you've teamed up, i have to question this. you've teamed up with meachem, okay. how do we keep this thing alive? what is it? >> one of the thing, it's calls history is us. it's in some ways an extension of our conversation. until my latest book "begin again" trying to give an account of our current moment. i was really struck at this moment after january 6 when senator ted cruz invoked the presidential election of 1876. >> uh-huh. >> as a framework for resolving the conflicts around the 2020 election. so, what we do in this six-part podcast series, we go all the way back to radical reconstruction. and we tell a story about race and how race has shaped our journey to now. >> i like it. >> and in some ways, mika, i would say this, there's an untold of the january 6th story. remember when donald trump said stand back and stand by.

>> yes. >> it's in response to a question around white supremacists and the proud boys. >> yeah. >> when we think about stop the steal? what are we talking about? atlanta, milwaukee, detroit. they're talking about particular voters, right when we thank you about richard pappas' analysis of most of the folks who participated in january 6 insurrection. most came from districts that biden won but districts that are changing demographically. so the feeling of replacement is at the bottom or underneath it. i'm trying to sell the story of how race shadows the current crisis. >> and you and meachem were perfect to put your minds to this. who do you wish would listen to this? >> actually all americans, really. i really think those in attendance, those folks who aren't locked in their positions. those folks who haven't settled who are really concerned about the state and the policy to

understand this motel in history because we're in that battleground clearly. and this podcast is our intent, through the conversations that we've been having over the so many years, this battle, even our conversations, joe, as we try to tell a thicker story about how race shadows so much of what we do today. >> i was going to say eddie's been a great guest on meachem's podcasts have have been phenomenal. you're taking on a long space of time here, a long scope. so what is the story you tell over all of these centuries, really? >> i tell the story that ready cal reconstruction didn't end, it was killed. i talk about the way in which we turned our backs on the idea of a racial democracy and when we have black men voting not black victim, these black men voting after the 15th amendment. oh, we have to talk about

election integrity. not just in colfax, louisiana, or tennessee. but also the violence directed at those black poll workers, trying to organize their committees. and talk about the ways in which, every time we take a step forward, the american story isn't this linear progression to perfection. joe, we've been having this argument. the story is one step forward, two steps back. and people finding desperate how to live together. we have the secretary of the smithsonian. we have historians, david blight and martha jones. and senator cory booker, latosha brown, from reconstruction all the way to the current moment. >> you know what's fascinating, i think people are starting to realize this now. what's so fascinating if you really want to look and see, with united states, always moving towards a more perfect

union, that walk that march, really only started in ernest in '64 or '65, if you're a black american with the passage of the laws that were passed there. and it did seem -- i think a lot of us, maybe people like myself, got a little too confident that it would forever be so. 1965 till 2015, and i think a lot of us were shocked by what happened in 2015. and what's been happening since. and what donald trump has permitted in so long polite society. >> you know, joe -- >> i'll tell you this quickly. and i've noticed this by talking to my younger children and my older children. my older children, it shocks people -- my older children in the south, like me, we didn't grow up around people that said the "n" word. we just didn't.

we didn't hear it. i can't say that about my younger children. >> right, right. >> which is shocking. >> yeah. >> like i'll get reports that, you know, a sports game is on -- wait, what? >> what did you just say? >> what? i played sports, i played football. baseball, basketball. no, not my kids, but they would come home and report that they were hearing this. >> yeah. >> our children have grown up in a bitterly divided america. >> yeah in that. >> june 19th is coming up, what's so striking about june 10th, joe, this is june 15th, 1865, they found out they were free, what's distinctive about it? freedom is not an end, it's a practice. freedom is not the 13th amendment. freedom is not the emancipation proclamation, it's not 1964 and 1965. it's not something you do and

then -- it's over. freedom is a practice. so, we have to practice it every single day. so, today, i drama the first two episodes of "history is us" start with reconstruction. >> this blends beautifully into the next block. coming up breaking news out of the white house, president biden is putting pressure on u.s. oil companies calling on them to produce more to alleviate the burden on high prices on consumers. we'll talk about the push to bring down gas prices with u.s. secretary of energy jennifer granholm. and also, the big lie to big one, overseeing all elections in a swing state. "morning joe" is coming right back.

i'm mark and i live in vero beach, florida. my wife and i have three children. ruthann and i like to hike. we eat healthy. we exercise. i noticed i wasn't as sharp as i used to be. my wife introduced me to prevagen and so i said "yeah, i'll try it out." i noticed that i felt sharper, i felt like i was able to respond to things quicker. and i thought, yeah, it works for me. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. so this is the meta portal plus. a smart video calling device that makes working from home work. a 12-megapixel lens makes sure your presentation is crystal clear. and smart camera auto pans and zooms to keep you perfectly in frame. oh, and it syncs with your calendar. plus, with zoom, microsoft teams, and webex, you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. now that's a productive day. meta portal:

make working from home work for you. only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means that your goals are ours too. and vanguard retirement tools and advice can help you get there. that's the value of ownership.

right now, we're all feelin' a little strapped. but weekends are still all about grilling. and walmart always keeps prices low on our fresh ingredients. so you can save money and live better. ♪ it's still the eat fresh refresh, and subway's refreshing their app. so you can customize your favorite footlong, set a pickup time, and jump the line! oh, here she goes! ugh, i thought she was actually gonna jump. just use this code and order on the subway app! you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it. usually. and in it. mostly. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour.

when that car hit my motorcycle, and delivered to your door insurance wasn't fair. so i called the barnes firm, it was the best call i could've made. call the barnes firm now, and find out what your case could be worth. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million and i d d so my y quesonons coueouout hicacase.y y son, ♪ call one eight hundred, cacalledhehe bars s filion and i d d soit was the best call coueouout hii could've made. call the barnes firm aand find out what your case all ccould be worth.uld've made. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪

49 past the hour. our next guest known for his study of racism. and its origins. is now looking at it through the lens of being a father. joining us now andrew w. long professor in humanities and founding director of the boston university sector for anti-racist research. his original 2019 book is entitled "how to be an anti-racist." years later as a father to his then 4-year-old daughter,e realized tre wase h wanted to understand how to raise her to become someone that would fight for equality. he's out today with a new book entitled "how to raise an anti-racist." it's great to have you back on the show.

>> professor, thank you for being with us. tell us why you wrote the book. >> i wrote the book because the more i researched this issue about race in children, the more i continued on as a father, the more i realized that kids are actually the most vulnerable to racism. but they're the ones who are least likely to engage about it. so, i wanted to write a book that would allow parents and teachers and caregivers to figure out ways to protect our children from these simplistic messages like dark is ugly. and light is good. so they can grow up to be whole people who recognize racial equality. >> and your message is that parents should understand that children are already forming opinions at a very early age, some research says as early as 3 or 4 years old? >> they do. and that's the unfortunate

truth. but according to scholars, by 3 years old, our kids have an adult-like concept of race. by 3 years old, our kids are attaching qualities like smartness and honesty and cleanliness to skin color. and all the while, parents are thinking and teachers that our kids aren't thinking about skin color. or even seeing it. so, we're not stepping in to counteract those messages and we need to. >> you know what's so fascinating my two youngest kids when they were young in the formative years, they grew up when a black man was president of the united states. and, really, it -- that's the world that they first came into. >> right. >> and i think it dramatically, dramatically changed the way they look at black and white. the way they look at power structure. even saw it as they were for myf

here, i do wonder, what about children that have been raised over the past four, five, six years and they're seeing images. i remember the image of bobby kennedy's death, but what about charlottesville, proud boys, hearing about muslims, i do wonder what impact that has on so many young kids coming of age? >> it is having, i think, a major impact, particularly for white teenage boys who are facing and being recruited by white supremacists online in multiplayer video games if they weren't been taught about white supremacy, it's hard for them to see it and identify it and see it as wrong and not go down that

rabbit hole. for young kids it's so important to protect them from white supremacists to teach them about racism and white supremacy. >> let me ask you, i'm sure i'll offend a lot of people in the twitter sphere, oh, my gosh, i don't know how i'll get through the day. one of the messages i've had from friends that work at progressive institutions is my fear that, you know, we hear about the wokeness, and we hear about young, 7, 8, 9-year-old boys being told they're inherently bad. i know you're not saying that. but that's just sort of the general -- that's general critique from the right. i have been concerned at times, you talked about this white boys moving into the teenage years. i just talked about how unfortunately i do think there's more racism in our society now even than when my younger kids were growing up.

how do we make sure that we don't push them into a corner of trumpism. or push them this way or that way. how do we -- how do we thread that needle, i guess, is the best way to put it to say, listen, here's the history of america. this is what our past is. and let's work together, moving forward to a more perfect union. and as you say, a place where anti-racism is actually the norm. >> well, i think, first, we have to just acknowledge that we live in a society of all sorts of racial disparities and our children, our young people, are seeing like darker people on average have less. and the question is, they're asking is why. and we have been teaching our children that no group is better or worse, has more because they

are more, have less because they are less, and there's nothing more unifying than the idea that we're all equals. and that the problem is bad policies. >> right. >> and not bad people. and we have to convey that to you're children. we also have to convey when we're teaching about slavery, you know there were white people who enslaved. and there are white people who are abolitionists. so our kids can see those abolitionists as people to look up. that's where you tell the story. >> good morning, this is eddie. congratulations on the new book. let me ask the question on the arc of the book. there's always the talk about being anti-racist, or anti- something. but that's in a more positive vision of the world. as we're raising our kids to be decent human beings, what is the message in your book about the world that we aspire to live in?

>> well, i'm happy you mentioned the arc, eddie. and congratulations on your new podcast. and that arc, first, is we have to recognize that when we engage with children, we have to engage at a developmentally appropriate level. so the chapter sort of moved from pregnancy to toddler to school kid to, you know, teenager. and really the central message is for them when they're younger to see the beauty of the human rainbow. for them to realize that the way -- we may be different, we may have different colors and cultures. we're simultaneously the same. as they get older for them to see racial injustice and racial equities as the problem. and for them to not be duped by this idea that those other people who don't look like them or who don't live like them, who don't worship like them are the

problem. so they can connect. and learn how to connect across difference. we have to teach children how to relate and connect across difference. because, otherwise, they're going to be told to rank difference. >> ibram, this is michael steele here. congratulations to you. congratulations eddie. i clearly need to get busy, sigh got work to do to catch up to you, brothers, i'm just saying. here's an interesting piece because how you just framed the end of the -- your answer there is important to me, because it reminds me of a story a friend told me that she had with her young child in the 1980s here in washington, d.c. in dupont circle. her kid is playing -- young african american kid playing in the park. young white kid coming into the park with his mom. you know, midafternoon. boys being boys, they start playing together. the white mother goes and snatches up her child and says

to her child who is about 4 years old, 5 years old. i told you i didn't want you playing with them. so this is -- this was very instructive. so i won't share what happened after that. police were involved. it was ugly. but the reality of it is it's how we raise our kids. what we saw in charlottesville were kids dressed up. they were wearing their khakis, their little nice shirts. but that behavior that led them there, was it taunt? was it instinct? what's going on that parents feel that they need to pass that on to their children in such a harmful and destructive way? >> because, i think, parents themselves have been taught these ideas. parents want to protect their kids so if they have been taught this idea that those brown kids or black kids are dangerous, then they're going to want to keep their kids from them. but the problem is that idea,

those ideas are dangerous. not allowing kids across difference to connect and be friends is actually what's dangerous. but what's also interesting about that example is that parent didn't necessarily say those black kids don't mess with, or play with those black kids. they said don't play with those kids. so what's happening is you have nonverbal racial language that is teaching kids who is good and who is bad. and for younger kids especially, it's the non verbal language that's very impactful. so we have to be as teachers and caregivers be cognizant what is said to our kids because they're studying us. everything that we say and do they're really studying us. >> that is for sure. the new book is "how to raise an anti-racist." ebb brim x. kendi, thank you very much. it's now the top of the

third hour for "morning joe." today is the day that wall street prepares for what could be the largest interest rate hike in nearly 30 years. we'll discuss the latest efforts to fight surging inflation and out-of-control gas prices let alone the inability for anyone to get or buy a house or rent an apartment. in just a few minutes, energy secretary jennifer granholm will join us on the heels of the breaking news that the president is putting new pressure on oil companies to boost supply and lower prices. and ahead in our fourth hour, nbc's stephanie ruhle joins us to break down the latest moves with the economy. plus, steve kornacki with last night's election results as donald trump works to reshape the republican party and congress. >> he had a great night in nevada. split decision, though, in south carolina. >> in south carolina, we'll get to those results. but we want to start this hour with new details about the next january 6th committee hearing

which will take place tomorrow afternoon. the focus will be on former president trump's efforts to pressure former vice president mike pence in overturning the results of the 2020 election. vice chair of the committee, congresswoman liz cheney teased ahead to the hearing in a new video posted on twitter. >> in our next hearing on thursday, the select committee will revisit president trump's relentless pressure phone mike pence to refuse to count lawful votes. a federal judge likely indicated this likely violated two criminal statutes. president trump had no factual basis for what he was doing and he had been told it was illegal. despite this, president trump plotted with a lawyer named john eastman and others to overturn the outcome of the election on january 6th. to give you the sense of gravity of these issues, here is a clip of one of president trump's own

white house lawyers, eric herschmann, who talks to mr. eastman the day after january 6th. >> it was the day after. eastman -- i don't remember why he called me. and -- or he texted me or he called me, wanted to talk with me. he said he couldn't reach others. and he started ask me about something dealing with georgia, preserving something, potentially, for appeal. and i said to him, are you out of your f'ing mind? right. he said i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth from now on, orderly transition. and said, i don't want to hear any f'ing words coming outside of your mouth other than orderly transition. repeat those words to me. and i eventually he said orderly

transition. he said, good, john. he said, now, i'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. get a great f'ing criminal defense lawyer. you're going to need it. and i hung up on him. >> he hung up. >> willie, you group up in jersey, right? >> i sure did. >> yeah. >> like, i see some -- scenes like this in tv shows and movies? >> that was real. >> you're not going to ohm the restaurant, okay? say it. >> say it. >> say it i'm not. >> i get it, i'm not going to ohm the restaurant. wait -- again, eric herschmann plays the role in the movie. >> you can see it by his tie. but eric herschmann, who is a former trump white house attorney defended former president trump during his first impeachment trial. and he was the one shutting down that line of questioning. joining us now at the table

executive editor for news at new york.com, he's a road investigative journalist. david, so much to look into the hearings. i know you've been looking at sort of the justice department angle in all of this. and whether the committee is speaking to merrick garland and those at doj hoping perhaps there will be charges brought. have you seen anything in the first two days of testimony on whether what happened on january 6th, or potentially the potential for fraud, $250 million funneled into an account where people were told it was going to, have you seen anything that rises to prosecution here? >> i met with a justice department official recently and they said they are emphatic that garland can and will prosecute if there's enough evidence. they have pointed back to his speech in january that said he will follow every lead. and also the speech he gave at harvard, a graduation speech about public service but he

talked to that class about the importance of defending democracy. but i do think the justice department sees it as a last resort. a member of the judiciary committee told me they're trying to defeat donald trump politically first, what happens at the ballot box. but the $250 million, $1 million of that going to an organization run by mark meadows. lying people to raise money, not using it for the purpose you promised. so, i think that's another angle for a very clear answer, more cut and dried possible prosecution. >> at the front, doesn't that mean people who gave the money to feel they were victims -- and i -- i don't know, i think that we are so divided and there is such a lack of understanding of what the truth is, the constitution, what this is all about. i'm not sure people who gave money feel they were victimized, even though they were. they were ripped off.

their money was taken, and it was not used for what they were told it was going to be used for. >> yes. and prosecution can make that case, but it getting back to the whole problem of intent. and donald trump is very clever about hinting what he wants, signaling what he wants but not having that definitive proof. so, there's a huge desire among people, skeptics of trump or even people who fear him for a prosecution. >> right. >> but the bar is much higher for a criminal prosecution. and again, i think -- i don't think we know jet what merrick garland is going to do, but it's a very serious thing to do it. it's a last resort. i think whether trump is put on trial or acquitted. >> so, let's talk about, also, just the historic impact of a current president's justice department prosecuting the president going out of office. i remember a lot of discussions when george w. bush was leaving office in 2008, early 2009, there were a lot of democrats,

there were a lot of progressives, you a lot of obama supporters that wanted george w. bush prosecuted for war crimes. >> yep. >> and barack obama wisely said, no, no, we don't want to get into that. and i say wisely because, of course, barack obama eight years later could have had war crime charges brought against him for his use of drone strikes against american citizens. i'm just saying at the end of every presidency, you could go back, cherry-pick, so, i've always said, you just -- you don't bring charges against the last president. i agree with the kennedys. when it came to gerald ford, that pardoning nixon, moving on, even though it cost ford the presidency was the thing to do. that was a really long wind jum to say -- but in this case -- but in this case, we have a president for the first time in american history that is trying

to destroy american democracy. and is very open about it, that he wants to undo a presidential campaign. if we don't move here -- i mean -- i guess what i'm saying this, a hell of a quandary for merrick garland, isn't it? >> it is. and it's a hell of a moment. i mean, if we can't agree on election results, we're looking at chaos and civil war. and i've covered this before. and people resorting to political violence is a very dangerous thing for the country. so, i think it's an option. prosecution is necessary if you defy election results. >> but you're optimistic? >> i'm optimistic. >> what are you optimistic about our democracy? you have to explain is this. >> i'm optimistic, i'm impressed with the job that the january 6 committee is doing. they're elected politicians. they're informing voters and producing new information on what the president did. >> are they informing all

voters? >> no, but clearly, trumpism is winning. he did well, as you said until nevada last night, he split the difference in south carolina. does that represent the majority of americans? we won't know until there's an election. but that's the danger, if we can't agree on election results, we're headed for chaos. >> i've got to say, willie, in general elections, though, willie, i mean, it was critical, in fact, two-thirds of republicans don't blame donald trump. >> yeah. >> but we're operating on such small margins now in these elections, you know, people want republicans to set their hair on fire and say we were wrong. it's never going to happen. but you look at what happened in georgia in the suburbs of atlanta. north of atlanta. something that people who have been voting republican their entire life, going democratic, and they're never coming back because of donald trump. you know, for democrats looking at this, you moved two, three, four, five, six percent of the

republican party away from donald trump. you just impacted every presidential election for years to come. >> yeah. but we're talking about 10,000 votes in certain states to swing an entire election. that's very slim margins. senate races in ohio and pennsylvania, for example. nevada and i know we're going to talk about this in a minute. that was an interest case, the two people who won for the primaries and secretary of state avowed election conspiracy theories. in fact, they've helped donald trump try to film the election in nevada. if they win, if that guy becomes secretary of state until nevada, you get another election on those margins, you've got a problem in state of nevada with democracy. i do want to ask you, david, coming back to january 6, how much does it weigh on the department of justice and attorney general garland the impact of prosecuting donald trump? so that is to say, he may have committed a crime, but are they considering what happened on january 6th?

the idea of prosecuting donald trump and reaction from supporters had shouldn't weigh into your decisions but do they think about that and what that looked like and what the result could be doing that? >> i think they do. that's why they weigh the power of the evidence. every prosecutor only brings a prosecution when they think they can get a guilty verdict. and agreeing for that verdict so the stakes are very high. so i think there's a higher bar but on the evidence, again, they're emphatic to me, if the evidence is strong enough, garland will do at this time. they point to enrique tarrio's proud boy last night. we're not there yet. maybe it's shifting the voters. i want to phrase, frankly, the republicans, i've had issues with bill barr in the past to stem in and others, there are republicans standing up to trump, they're winning elections in georgia, you know, and the information that they're sharing on the january 6th committee is

progress. >> well, and by the way, if you talk to members of the january 6th committee, they will say, okay, yeah, it would have been great if they would have come in earlier, but thank god they're coming in now and participating. because all of these people are laying out how ugly it was inside the white house. so, that's something that -- sigh know that -- >> and it's striking to see bill barr. >> oh yeah. >> saying it was b.s. >> yeah. >> and to see, you know -- donald trump's children, who were his advisers as well. >> yeah. >> under oath saying something very different. >> you brought up nevada, really quickly, i just want to say, if i'm a republican, like worried about winning senate seats and i look at the kooks they've given

it to in, again in ohio, a venture capitalist playing a kook in ohio. and pennsylvania, a democrat who voted last in turkey playing a kook. >> herschel walker. >> herschel walker -- my god, what does he ever say? one other thing about herschel walker, if i had won the heisman, about law enforcement, or being in the fbi or being vag valedictorian, i'd be like, yeah, i won the heisman trophy. it's like neil armstrong didn't go around -- he walked on the moon. but walker, here's another great example. they keep nominating kooks, and mitch mcconnell have got to be thinking, my god, donald trump is going to cost me the senate

again. >> in georgia again. that's all donald trump. that's hand-picked, donald trump drafted and played for the new jersey devils and usfl. playing purely on celebrity. if you listen to herschel walker's presentation on the issues, it's clear his platform is i won the heisman trophy, go dawgs. as americans struggle with american gas prices, president joe biden is calling on oil companies to boost production and help prices at the pump. in a scathing letter this morning to the ceos of top u.s. oil refineries, biden said they are taking advantage of the process as their profits have tripled. biden said his administration is prepared to take any, quote, reasonable and appropriate steps that would help companies increase their output in the near term. joining us now u.s. secretary of energy jennifer granholm. good to have you on the show this morning. so, tell us more about what exactly he's asking the oil

companies to do. and i just wonder if the president needs to sort of level with the american people about the situation, the energy situation globally. and how it's impacting gas prices here at home. because isn't it the case that some of this he cannot control? >> oh, totally, mika. i mean, there's so much that is beyond my leader in the globe's control, unless they own, state-owned enterprises that are producing gasoline. so oil is traded at today about $120 a barrel. and that price is being paid by people in japan. it's being paid by people in europe. in fact, gas prices today over $5 a gallon in united states. in canada, you'd be paying$6.20 something like that. in germany, $8 a gallon. in singapore, you'd be paying $9

a gallon. it's happening all around the world. but the united states is the largest producer of oil and gas and the president feels like we've got an additional responsibility, we as a country, but really our oil and gas producers have a responsibility. we're on a war footing. the price of oil, the price of gas, is precipitating the high percentage of inflation around the world. and so he's acting upon our domestic and international producers to produce more. russia's invasion of ukraine has caused the price of gas in the united states to go $1.70 a gallon since the invasion occurred. so, oil and gas companies who are part of the global community need to understand that we need to make up for the amount of russian barrels of oil that have come off the market since that invasion. because countries like the united states rightfully have said, we are not going to purchase russian oil. so, the bottom line is he's calling for an increase in

production both of producing and extracting oil but also refining it to make sure we can have gasoline at the pumps. >> so, secretary granholm, so much of this, though, is market-driven. i mean, there's a reason why oil companies aren't producing as much as we'd like them to produce right now. that's because the demand was driven down so much by ccovid, and it takes a while to crank it back up. going back to what mika said, should the president just level, hearings the demand. it take a while for demand to ramp up. we also have another problem, we don't have enough oil refineries, because the regulations around oil refineries in the united states have choked off the ability to do exactly what we need to do right now. >> well, let me just say, joe, it's not that the regulations are on oil refineries. 80% of the oil refining came off the market before joe biden took

office. it's a global issue as well. it's not just a regulatory issue. some of those refineries flipped over to bio fuels. and the president is saying, you know in march -- this is an example, joe, in march, the price of oil per barrel on the global market was about $120. and in march, people in the united states were paying about $4.25 a gallon. today, the price of oil on the global market is about $120. same price, but we're paying 75 cents for more at the pump. why is that? so the president is just asking these refiners which of course are owned by these oil and gas companies to increase supply. and if you can't, tell us how we can help to make sure we increase supply in the way we can. plus, mika, just quickly in terms of what the president does have at his disposal, he does have the biggest tool ever which is the strategic petroleum reserve and he's releasing 1 million barrels a day to try to

make up for that lost supply. but you are right, it's a pretty market, a capitalistic market. we're not against profit, it's just when you have 225% increase in profit year over year in quarter one it just tells you something else is going on. >> when you ask the oil companies tell us how we can help, isn't it just increased production right now, but permanent solutions so we're not dependent, and the world isn't dependent, and being held hostage right now by the russian invasion of ukraine? my brother was telling me, he's heads to latvia in june for the three seas summit. and it's working on getting completely energy independent. in the central european countries, interconnected. and isn't that more relevant than ever? because right now, if you levy a sanction on russia, it's going to hurt the country, too, that's levying the sanction. and it's going to be an ongoing

process with russia unless we cut ties. >> yeah, you obviously understand this very well, mika. i mean, clearly when the eu is deciding to cut off russian supply of oil and gas, that, too, causes a crimp in supply. and it causes prices to go up. so, to your point, yes, ultimately, the solution to make us energy secure, to make the baltic states energy secure, to make the entire world energy secure is to move to clean energy. no country has ever been held hostage to access to the sun. or to access to the wind. ultimately, those are the price volatility, continues to -- at least on clean energy there's no volatility, it continues to drama. we're not under the thumb of petrol dictators and ultimately that is the solution. but in the immediate, we know that people are hurting and we've got to increase supply wherever we can, globally, including in the united states to make sure we try to moderate

the barrels pulled up by the war in ukraine. >> energy secretary jen from gran home, thank you for being on the show. we have a development to report with wnba star brittney griner detained in russia for nearly four months. her detention has now been extended a third time for another 18 days until july 2nd. that's according to a russian state news agency report citing a decision by a court outside of moscow. griner was detabled at a russian airport in mid-february when authorities there claimed she was carrying vape cartridges containing cannabis oil. u.s. state department spokesperson ned price yesterday acknowledged the russian media reports about griner's case. >> i've seen the report. i've seen the report emanate from russia that her suspension has been extended.

our position on this is very clear. brittney griner should not be detained. she should not be dedantained a single day longer. we were able to have access to brittney griner last month. we were able to press for all detainees, we've been working behind the scenes. we've been in regular contact with russian authorities. >> the state department last month reclassified griner as wrongfully detained, yet, she remains in detention in russia. >> you know, david, it's ongoing. >> she's a political prisoner. i'm biased. i was held by the ttaliban. there are 40 being held. she's most prominent, it's outrageous, it would be like maria sharapova or ovechkin

being detained. it's just outrageous. >> what are the hopes she will be released? >> not anytime soon. paul whelan has been held there for four years. austin tice has been missing in syria for nearly a decade. so, it's an enormous problem. and i do call onlied administration to do more. >> the nba speaking out, adam silver, the commissioner. calling for release but to no avail, they keep extending the prison time. and there's breaking news about alexei navalny has been moved out of his prison. without warning, secretary blinken not warned about that. >> executive editor for news at new york.com, david rogue, thank you for coming on great to see you. still ahead on "morning joe," our conversation with

congressman adam schiff. a member of the house select committee investigating january 6. and what he had to say about the upcoming hearings. plus, five states held primary elections yesterday. in our fourth hour of "morning joe," steve kornacki joins us from the big board to break down some of the biggest results and what they mean. you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. only at vanguard you're more than just an investor

you're an owner. that means that your priorities are ours too. our interactive tools and advice can help you build a future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership. we believe our military heroes can help you build a future for the ones you love. deserve a company who will fight for them just as they do for us. from buying to refinancing, the loan professionals at newday usa have given enlisted veterans a different kind of financial experience. with more ways to help more veterans, no bank, no lender, no one knows veterans like newday usa. ♪♪ making friends again, billy? i like to keep my enemies close. guys, excuse me. i didn't quite get that. i'm hard of hearing. ♪♪ oh hey, don't forget about the tense music too.

would you say tense? i'd say suspenseful. aren't they the same thing? can we move on guys, please? alexa, turn on the subtitles. and dim the lights. ok, dimming the lights. (music) alexa, turn on the subtitles. who said you have to starve yourself to lose weight? who said you can't do dinner? who said only this is good? and this is bad? i'm doing it my way. meet plenity. an fda -cleared clinically proven weight management aid for adults with a bmi of 25-40 when combined with diet and exercise. plenity is not a drug - it's made from naturally derived building blocks and helps you feel fuller and eat less. it is a prescription only treatment and is not for pregnant women or people allergic to its ingredients. talk to your doctor or visit myplenity.com to learn more. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight.

this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. when it comes to cybersecurity, ask your doctor if latuda the biggest threats don't always strike the biggest targets. so help safeguard your small business with comcast business securityedge™ it's advanced security that continuously scans for threats and helps protect every connected device. the choice is clear. get unbeatable business solutions from the most innovative company. so you can be ready for what's next. get started with a great deal on internet and voice for just $49.99 a month for 24 months with a 2 -year price guarantee. call today. at xfinity, we're constantly innovating. and we're working 24/7 to connect you

to more of what you love. we're bringing you the nation's largest gig speed network. available to more homes than anyone else. and with xfi complete, get 10x faster upload speeds. tech upgrades for your changing wifi needs. and advanced security at home and on the go to block millions of threats. only from us... xfinity. ♪♪ while the hearings are really doing -- while these hearings are really doing an incredible service to democracy, and service to our country, there is a bigger problem which we can talk about and that is that there is still a fight for the truth in this country. there are news organizations that refuse to cover this. they don't think it's news. the fact that trump officials,

people close to the president, are showing that they thought he was completely detached from reality. and they were trying to hold the line while our democracy was being pulled apart. like this is not an argument as to whether or not it is the truth being laid out before the eyes of the american people. it's not an argument that this is an important news story that should be covered by legitimate news organizations. and yet, we have this problem. >> well, i just need to correct one thing. >> yeah. >> they know it's the truth. you said they don't think it's the truth -- no, they know it's the truth. they know their viewers don't want to see the truth. >> well, maybe they do. >> well, they know the viewers based on their market research don't want to the see the truth. so, yesterday, we were flying up yesterday, by the way, laguardia, it's beautiful, i love pennsylvania. it's always great to be able to walk in. you know the great thing is

there are a lot of amish workers, all they've been doing is -- yeah, now, they're getting to handle the bags. delta's new terminal literally -- literally -- >> i love what you were about to say? >> what i like the dirty bathroom spot. at least you get to your car in less than five hours. but that they know it's the truth. yesterday, we're flying up and as we're flying up to laguardia. >> they have like little tvs on the seats. >> to land in lancaster county and walk into queens. flushing meadows. >> no. >> mika is watching a news channel. and i tell her -- i will say, why are you watching -- don't -- they're talking -- swear to god about ozzy osbourne.

apparently he's sick. they have analysts coming and talking about ozzy osbourne's surge. >> analysts on ozzy osbourne's surgery. >> is he going to be okay? >> his wife says this surgery will determine the rest of his life. i know that because i got the news, apparently, it was biden's economic crisis. biden's energy problem. biden's gas. they did a good whip around on the economy. literally, three hours, three hours, not a mention of the hearing. not a mention of the news breaking out for the hearings, about the next hearings. >> right. >> not a mention. and there are some journalists that i really respect at this network i was watching i could tell it was painful. i wanted to call this person who i worked with and be like, how is that for you? how do you feel? because i bet it's hard. >> but ozzy -- they needed to do

the breaking news about ozzy. >> ozzy snorts the line of ants -- >> i know so much about ozzy, he had an atv accident years ago which caused more pain for him. and the surgery is really important. in fact, it's so important, i watched probably 45 minutes of programming about it. ozzy osborne, he's going to have a grandchild. he already has one. >> okay, let's go, i appreciate -- >> unbelievable. i'm doing it to prove a point. >> how old is mick? >> 78. >> and mccartney -- >> i'll see if ozzy's on the front. >> mccartney about to turn 80. you would never guessed they

would survive in 1980. they're healthy. i think it's like vegetarian, yoga. >> nope. >> on the "post" -- >> it will be in there. >> the "post" is covering this. do not besmirch the "post." this is joe's official -- okay, mika -- >> to mika's larger point, about ozzy, there's an important point, which is to confront the truth about what happened on january 6th. >> or cover the story. >> to admit you've been duped when you hear you were sent to the united states capitol while donald trump played golf at mar-a-lago later and went to prison. that you sent your money, $20 to donald trump and $250 million or not more that did not go where he said it was going. and then the attack on the capitol. you can't confront that

reality -- >> thank you. and more came out yesterday that was legitimately new. we'll talk about those developments just ahead. nbc's ali vitali previews tomorrow's big hearing on capitol hill. that's just ahead on "morning joe." before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn... claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn?

she's feeling the power of listerine. he's feeling it. yep, them too. it's an invigorating rush... ...zapping millions of germs in seconds. for that one-of-a-kind whoa... ...which leaves you feeling... ahhhhhhh listerine. feel the whoa! and, we're back! it's time to see which chew provides the longest-lasting flea and tick protection. bravecto's the big winner. 12 weeks of powerful protection, nearly 3 times longer than any other chew. bravo, bravecto! bravo!

- common percy! - yeah let's go! on a trip. book with priceline. you save more, so you can “woooo” more. - wooo. - wooo. wooooo!!!!! woohooooo!!!! w-o-o-o-o-o... yeah, feel the savings. priceline. every trip is a big deal. only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means that your goals are ours too. and vanguard retirement tools and advice can help you get there. that's the value of ownership.

as a business owner, your bottom line can help you get there. is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.™

♪♪ we're getting new details about former justice department official jeffrey clark in his effort to help donald trump overturn the 2020 election. "the new york times" was first to report a tense meeting inside the oval office, in which trump considered replacing then acting attorney general jeffrey rosen with clark. after rosen refused to go along

with the president's election schemes. the plan never materialized because justice department officials threatened to resign if rosen was dismissed. now, "the washington post" has pieced together this puzzle better. rosen reportedly told the senate judiciary committee that he and clark clashed after rosen refused to sign onto a letter to georgia lawmakers urging them to send to congress an alternate slate of electors supporting trump. the following day, just three days before the january 6 attack on the capitol, rosen told the committee clark said the president offered him rosen's job and that he would take it. rosen would be replaced in days. and the justice department would, quote, chart a different path. rosen says he told clark, quote, i don't get to be fired by someone who works for me. rosen says he then requested to meet with trump. soon after, rosen, clark, and

acting attorney general richard donoghue were in the oval office 0. according to donoghue's deposition, rosen told clark he'd uncover investigations that would uncover widespread fraud. and repeatedly went after rosen and donoghue saying, quote, you two haven't done anything, you two don't care. you haven't taken appropriate actions. everyone tells me i should fire you. well, suppose i do this, trump said to donoghue. what would you do? sir, i would resign immediately, donoghue said, there's no way i'm serving under this guy, talking about clark. clark, as we mentioned specializes in environmental law. at one point when he tried to state his qualifications to the attorney general, donoghue shot back, how about you go back to your office and we'll call you when there's an oil spill. >> oh, my god. >> trump asked another official in the room, steve englewood,

steve, you wouldn't resign, would you? absolutely i would, president mr. you would leave me no choice. and what happens if 48 hours we have hundred of resignations of the justice department? what does that say about your leadership. trump then thanked clark for his willingness and said he would keep the current leadership in place. >> admiral, what's most frightening, there are a lot of things we've already said to be -- to feel good about. that people that stood in the gap. but what's frightening, and the guys in the article mentioned it, we knew this guy, we worked with him at kirkland & ellis. he was a level-headed guy. harvard undergrad. georgetown law school, kirkland & ellis. they knew him.

this isn't who he was. another example of somebody put in this position who lost their head. >> yeah. >> who became power hungry and were willing to trash the constitution and to actually get in the way of a peaceful transition of power for the first time in american history. >> yeah. the phrase, it shocks the conscience really comes to mind. the idea that this environmental lawyer, despite the pedigree and so on, this environmental lawyer would float over and become the attorney general would be like me being the power forward for the boston celtics in game six. and i'm 358'5" tall. >> you're sturdy, you're tough. all muscle. >> i'm small, but i'm slow. >> exactly. >> in any event, that's absurd. you don't put people in those crucial jobs because they raise their hand and say, gosh, i think i'd be a pretty good attorney general. you know, power corrupts,

absolute power corrupts absolutely. >> yeah. >> and you see it on display, it's the human drama unfolding in front of us. >> you know, eddie, that's -- what he just said, my coach at catholic high school, how are the crusaders going to do this year? he said, let me tell you something, they're small but they're slow. and he was right. but, eddie, again, there are so many times in history where people are called upon to lie, to greatness, or just fall. and we have seen it too often. and you have -- anne applebaum wrote a great story -- instead of trying to do what happened in nazi germany in which she said, of course, it's just too stark. and she looked at the difference between east germany and west germany. and who pushed back in east

germany. and then she took it to heart. if you would have said before the trump crisis if you put mitt romney and lindsey graham together, no one would have ever guessed that it would have been mitt romney that actually was the outsider who dared to stand up to power. because that's what he came from. and that lindsey graham, a guy who served, a guy who was an attorney in the military. a guy who came from humble beginnings would actually be the one to suck up to power. and disregard -- let's just say the constitution of the united states time and time again. in this country's greatest hour of need since the civil war. >> it's interesting two characters emerging at least in my mind, right. those folks holding the line as we talked about. those folks committed to those constitutional principles. 31 there's incompetents.

folks running around who don't know anything. >> right. >> and then there folks whose souls have been distorted by the power. they're cynical in their pursuit of it. and that combination of incompetence, and those folks just exercising the will to power, right, created a firestorm. to mex my metaphors. >> indeed. and you know what we're seeing also on display here is the difference between leadership and character. leadership is how you influence others. it's a big door that swings. but that big door swings on a small hinge of character. that's what's in the human heart. and what we are seeing here is a failure. that hinge of character in the face of eddie's point, the witch's brew of power. coming up, donald trump weighed in on two congressional races in south carolina with mixed results. steve kornacki is standing by at the big board to break down last

night's primary races which could tell us where the midterms are headed. that's next on "morning joe." and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. only at vanguard you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means that your priorities are ours too. our interactive tools and advice can help you build a future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership.

daddy, is that where we're from? well, actually, we're from a lot of places. see, we're from here, and there... give dad a gift worth sharing, at ancestry.com [zoom call] ...pivot... work bye. vacation hi! book with priceline. 'cause when you save more, you can “no way!” more. no wayyyy. no waaayyy! no way! [phone ringing] hm. no way! no way! priceline. every trip is a big deal.

first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized watch me. purchases on your discover card. and, we're back! it's time to see which chew provides the longest-lasting flea and tick protection. bravecto's the big winner. 12 weeks of powerful protection,

nearly 3 times longer than any other chew. bravo, bravecto! bravo!

♪♪ let's bring in a member of the select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol, democratic congressman adam schiff of california, he is chairman of the house intelligence committee. congressman, good to have you with us this morning. let's start with housekeeping. the hearing delayed to a date to be determined. we heard from congresswoman lofgren it was over a video matter. you all have seem to have been well organized in your presentations so far. is that all this is about? >> it's just a logistics really. it's not about any witness difficulties or any division in the committee. we're just trying to make sure that we proceed in the most orderly way that we have the most professional hearings possible and so we're making adjustments. we also continue to learn new

information, but mostly this is a logistical matter. >> so let's look ahead to tomorrow's hearing then as scheduled, which will focus on the pressure that was applied to vice president -- then vice president pence in the lead up to january 6th and on the day of january 6th. what can people expect to see and hear that we don't know already? >> well, you know, while i can't get into too many specifics like the hearings you see before, it will be a mix of things that the public knows, new information about the pressure campaign, new image, new deposition testimony. you know, interwoven in a way that tells the story because i think among most important things we're doing in the hearings, is we're showing how one thing related to another, how one pressure campaign related to another, how this effort built and built until there was this last-ditch effort to stop the counting on january 6th that led to violence. the pressure campaign against

the vice president is a very integral part of that. there are multiple lines of effort to overturn the election. any one of them could have failed, which would have resulted in a real constitutional crisis. you can expect to see stuff you haven't seen before, interwoven with things you have, but to tell the story in, i hope, a compelling way. >> congressman schiff, good morning. jonathan lemire. in the last hearing we heard the comical rantings of rudy giuliani. in the show we talked about the department of justice and the former president's efforts to use doj inappropriately to throw out election results, claim their investigations and use that as an impetus to continue his hold on power. talk to us about doj, because that's the subject of an upcoming hearing, but more broadly, what the committee has found about the former president's efforts to use the levers of government itself to try to stay in power? >> well, i think this is going to be a very important hearing

next week. that is, that, you know, we saw at the very end a pattern we had seen throughout much of the trump presidency, when he didn't get the answers he wanted, he would sack people who would stand up to him, who would do the right thing. in this case there was an effort to decapitate the leadership of the justice department that wouldn't go along with this effort to overturn the election, wouldn't essentially push out to the states false claims of massive fraud, wouldn't question the election the way donald trump wanted, but there was no evidentiary basis for, and yet, also part of the story is jeffrey clark and there seems to be jeffrey clark at multiple points in this plot, people willing to do anything to seize power, hold power, advance themselves or their career. i think it's an important part of the story. the justice department is supposed to stand for justice and here there was an effort, at

the very top from the president on down, to use that department to defy the interest of justice. >> congressman, it's sam stein here. there's -- it strikes me there's two parallel story lines going on around january 6th. one is the work that you and the rest of the committee are doing right now and the second is happening across the country with the election of a lot of republican candidates who believe the big lie, not only that, have said they would not have certified the 2020 elections. i'm wondering, how is that informing the work you do? and also, do you think that you may have moved too slowly in getting this stuff out to the public, in that there are people winning critical offices that will oversee the next election? >> on the first point it shows the enduring importance of the work we're doing, that the big lie didn't end on january 6th, that the big lie is promoted to this day and, therefore, the

parts of the hearings that we've been demonstrating where we show that it is a lie, there was no massive fraud, that joe biden did win the election, that donald trump knew that he lost, he pushed these claims anyway, and that they pushes them to this day, i think it shows more important than ever we get that good information out. i also think, in terms of did we wait too long, no, the investigations have a pace of their own. it takes you time to accumulate the evidence we've cumulated and we didn't want to present it until we knew if not all of the facts, enough of the facts, to show the country the conclusions we're reaching about the president's role in this plot. but we are -- and this to me is a fundamental point -- our democracy today is more vulnerable than it was on january 6th because of the lie that brought about that violence continues to proliferate around the country in just the manner

that you described. >> all right. adam schiff, member of the january 6th select committee, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. coming up, we're closing in on the start of the trading day on wall street and what could be a make or break moment for the fed. nbc's stephanie ruhle previews the looming decision on interest rates next on "morning joe." oe" right now, we're all feelin' the squeeze. we're having to get creative.

find a new way. but birthdays still happen. fridays still call for s'mores. you have to make magic, and you're figuring out how to do that. what you don't have to figure out is where to shop. because while you're getting creative, walmart is doing what we always do. keeping prices low for you every day. so you can save money and live better. ♪ my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured.

don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. (music) ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. who said you have to starve yourself to lose weight?

who said you can't do dinner? who said only this is good? and this is bad? i'm doing it my way. meet plenity. an fda -cleared clinically proven weight management aid for adults with a bmi of 25-40 when combined with diet and exercise. plenity is not a drug - it's made from naturally derived building blocks and helps you feel fuller and eat less. it is a prescription only treatment and is not for pregnant women or people allergic to its ingredients. talk to your doctor or visit myplenity.com to learn more. top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." >> look at l.a. >> 6:00 a.m. out west. >> yeah. >> 9:00on the east coast. >> willie, you may be going to l.a. for the world series. >> oh. >> could be. could be. the dodgers are playing pretty well, but watch out for the mets and the padres have now tied the dodgers in the nl