tonight on "the reid out." >> i said to him, are you out of your f'ing mind. now i'm going to give you the best legal advice you're ever getting in your life. get a great f'ing criminal defense lawyer. you're going to need it. >> we now know why that white house lawyer told eastman to get an f'ing lawyer. and why he tried to ask for a pardon. it was all explained in great detail at today's blockbuster january 6th hearing. we begin with a different january 6th.

january 6th, 2001, which played out this way after the disputed results in florida. >> it is the objection in writing and signed by member of the house and a senator? >> the objection is in writing and i don't care that it is not -- it is not signed by a member of the senate. >> the chair will advise that the rules do care. >> now we all remember what happened next. george w. bush's election was certified by al gore, the vice president at the time and bush was the president. vice president al gore did not stop that. no one suggested he had constitutional authority to do so since, in fact, that was never a thing despite a history of multiple disputed american presidential elections including the one which also hinged on disputed florida results back in 1876 which led to the creation

of the elect oral count act. during today's hearing gregory jacob who was lead council to vice president pence was asked if he confronted eastman's interpretation and this is what he said. >> back in 2000 you weren't jumping up and saying al gore had this authority to do that. you would not want kamala harris to be able to exercise that kind of authority in 2024 when i hope republicans will win the election and i know you hope that too, john. and he said, absolutely. al gore did not have a basis to do it in 2000. kamala harris shouldn't be able to do it in 2024 but i think you should do it today. >> in fact, eastman was pushing the spirit even he himself acknowledged that it was unconstitutional and wouldn't hold up in court. >> dr. eastman admit in front of the president that his proposal

would violate the electoral count act? >> mr. eastman acknowledged that was the case, even what he viewed as the more politically palatable option would violate several provisions but he thought that we could do so because in his view the electoral count act was unconstitutional. >> jacob testified that eastman acknowledged that if, if his theory that pence could delay certification of president biden's victory made it to the supreme court, trump would lose unanimously 9-0. the star former federal judge michael lunig who advised pence about his options also made clear along with mr. jacob that pence had no authority under any interpretation of the constitution to do what eastman proposed. >> there was no basis in the constitution or laws of the

united states at all for the theory espoused by mr. eastman, at all, none. >> my review of text, history and frankly just common sense all confirmed the vice president's first instinct on that point. there is no justifiable basis to conclude that the vice president has that kind of authority. >> in fact, judge lunig spelled out how adamantly he felt about that, that pens could not overturn the election. >> that declaration of donald trump as the next president would have plunged america into what i believe would have been tantamount to a revolution

within a constitutional crisis. >> for his part, john eastman remained undeterred and later even spoke at the ellipse on january 6th only further inflaming the crowd with claims about a plot he, as we now know, admitted was illegal in private. >> and all we are demanding of vice president pence is this afternoon at 1:00 he let the lectures of the state look into this so we get to the bottom of it and the american people know whether we have control of the direction of our government or not. >> taken together, today's hearing filled in the blanks of why white house lawyer eric hirschman advised eastman to get a great f'ing lawyer. several of them as pete aguilar revealed another option. >> just a few days later dr. eastman e-mailed rudy giuliani

and requested that he be included on a last of potential recipients of a presidential pardon. dr. eastman's email stated, quote, i've decided that i should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works. >> after trump declined to give eastman that presidential pardon, eastman pleaded the fifth repeatedly when deposed by the committee. 100 times to be exact. joining me now, olivia troy, director of the republican accountability project and a former aide, top aide to vice president mike pence. dan yal goldman, former assistant district attorney. he's now running for congress in new york. and maya wiley, president and ceo of the leadership conference. thank you all for being here. i want to zero in on mr. eastman because it seems to me, i'm going right down the center of my panel here to mr. goldman, it seems to me that not only was

what he was proposing unconstitutional. he knew it was unconstitutional. not only did it violate the law, the electoral count act, he knew it violated that law. he knew in terms of precedent it violated that, too, because he said al gore should not have had the right to do this. he thinks kamala harris should not have the right to do it but, quote, we should go ahead and do this anyway. your thoughts. >> well, you hit the nail on the head. i mean, the difference between just sort of violating the electoral count act and knowingly conspiring with others to interfere with the lawful functioning of government is exactly what you and greg jacobs said today, which is that he knew that what he was advocating for was illegal yet he was doing it anyway. you don't have to take my word for it. you can take the word of district judge carter out in l.a. who made a finding by

preponderance of the evidence that eastman may have committed that exact crime, conspiring to defraud the -- to overturn the election. and who was his co-conspirator according to judge carter? donald trump. so if john eastman is taking the fifth, is asking for a pardon because he clearly at that point recognized that he was in criminal hot water, the only other people who were really integrally involved in pushing eastman's theory were rudy giuliani, mark meadows and donald trump. it does seem at this point like what we've seen over the last couple of weeks is most of the rest of white house officials were behind the scenes pushing against this whole scheme. eastman kept pushing forward even where he fully acknowledged what he was doing was illegal but he just wanted vice president pence to do it anyway.

>> let me just read for a second, maya, from the 12th amendment to the constitution. aside from everything else that we're learning, it's a fantastic civics lesson that americans are getting by watching the hearings. they don't necessarily know the minutia in the constitution. one thing is very clear, if you do remember january 6th, 2001, the position of the vice president in that moment is ceremonial, purely ceremonial. it's like the oscars. the person reading the oscars envelope is literally reading it. so is the vice president. mr. pence went and asked people who would know. he asked people like michael luttig. he asked dan quayle. he asked just to be sure. his council asked, no, you need to stick with this. the president of the senate shall, in the presence of the senate and house of the representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted. that's the job. his persistence, maya, is what's mind boggling here, right up

until the day of the insurrection he himself gets on at the podium and still starts spouting this demand to mike pence. what do you make of all of this? >> look, i make of all of this what was already largely in the public eye but that these hearings are making crystal clear with additional new and powerful evidence, which is everybody, including those close to donald trump, appointed by donald trump, that donald trump chose to take before senate confirmation, that he relied upon to defend him in impeachment and brought into the white house council's office, these are his close supporters all saying the same thing behind closed doors, which is, no, this is insanity. this is crazy. a judge luttig, the thing about this is, this is a person with whom i know i personally would

share very few things that we would agree upon. i can say that the -- saving an american democracy requires us all to understand what the boundaries are. that 12th amendment is a crystal clear boundary. what we have seen, what i make of it is those who seek power like a john eastman, like a rudy giuliani and like a donald trump are really saying, we will ignore the constitution of the united states if it serves us. and the reason this committee hearing i hope is getting the time and attention it deserves is because the true message here is no matter your political beliefs or your party, this is a an existential crisis. if we believe lies because they are told repeatedly, including lies about what our constitution tells us. >> olivia, let me go to you. you worked for mike pence.

can you imagine what would have happened in 2001 had vice president gore simply said, no, i disagree with what the supreme court has said about the outcome in florida and i will simply declare myself the president. i mean, that is literally what was being asked of mike pence, declare himself vice president again. i want to have our audience listen again to the vice president's team, some of the members of his team, reacting to donald trump then releasing a statement on january 6th lying about mike pence's believes and saying mike pence believed. >> we are shocked and disappointed because whoever had written and put that statement out, it was categorically untrue. >> i was irritated and expressed displeasure that steven could have put out a statement that misrepresented his viewpoint without consultation.

>> olivia, talk about the pressure that was on mike pence who was a partisan supporter of donald trump and the pressure he and his staff and his team was under. >> to your point, he was an unwavering follower. you saw no daylight between him and trump the entire time even if as a frustrated staffer i really wanted it to be there. but he was unwavering on it. i was -- when i saw that statement go out initially i was thinking to myself like this is definitely a false statement. it's not the first false statement that donald trump has put out, right? this is his -- this is his usual modus operandi is what i will say about donald trump and who he is. so that just shows the intimidation because that was the intent of that statement. that statement was meant to publicly intimidate the pence team and mike pence himself. it was also, let's be honest, meant to rads callize trump supporters and followers to continue to fuel and fan the

flames that were going to lead up to what we saw develop on january 6th. >> and we know that from the washington post reporting a few days before that on january 3rd trump is literally telling the people in his office, don't tell mike pence anything. he's isolating the vice president, olivia, and saying we're going to pressure him and isolate him and then make him the hate object of that growing and increasingly angry crowd. >> yeah. so it's a secret going on that they're planning to overturn a a free and fair election and then there's this kind of secret type of lot against his own vice president and, look, you may disagree with mike pence's politics and his ideology, political ideology, but we should never no matter what party you belong to be okay with a scenario where the vice -- where the president of the united states is plotting to

figure out how to navigate into getting his own vice president to commit treason with him. mike pence is a lot of things but he's certainly not a traitor to our country. >> dan, the justice department has said they're quite interested. they would like to see the transcripts of all of these interviews. shouldn't they already be interviewing these same people? what do you make of the fact they're saying they would like the transcripts? >> i don't think there is any question the department of justice is woefully behind the select committee. they made a decision they were not going to be able to stay ahead of congress as the department of justice prefers to do so they just let them go and do their thing. i do think though that, yes, of course they'll be able to get their own interviews and they will have to interview everyone themselves, but it really cuts to the chase if you're able to go through current testimony or recent testimony on the same topic of 1,000 people and my

suspicion and what i hope will happen is some of the staff members on the january 6th committee after these hearings are over will guide the members of the department of justice through the transcripts and indicate to them which transcripts may be very valuable and which ones are not so valuable because, remember, so many of the staff members on the january 6th committee are former federal prosecutors. so they certainly know how to build a criminal case, and it would short circuit a lot of work for the department of justice if they could get some guidance from the committee staff. >> oh, absolutely. oh, if i were john eastman right now i'd be sweating because today i thought they built a pretty rock solid case that he knew he was fulmenting crimes and trying to get on the pardon both. my guests are going to stick with me. up next. i'm here to report pence caved. if pence caved, we're going to drag the [ bleep ] through the

streets. you politicians [ bleep ] are going to get dragged through the [ bleep ] streets. >> the threat to the life of vice president pence caused by his boss, donald trump. stay with us. as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend.

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today's hearing provided the most detailed account that we've seen so far of what former vice president pence endured on january 6th. let me just paint you a picture of his day. that day in a last ditch effort

called the vice president to tell him to have, quote, extreme courage. on that call former pence legal council testified that he overheard trump calling pence a whimp and he said he called him the p word. after that call pence left for the capitol and trump went to deliver a speech at the ellipse, a speech that had zero mentions of pence in the draft remarks but according to the committee here's what trump wound up saying that day. >> i hope mike is going to do the right thing. i hope so. i hope so. because if mike pence does the right thing, we win the election. mike pence is going to have to come through for us, and if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country. because you're sworn to uphold our constitution. >> those remarks cranked up the maga crowd's anger against pence. that anger grew after trump tweeted pence didn't have the

courage to do what needed to be done. he did this after he was informed there was a violent mob attacking the capitol. they surged after that tweet. pence was escorted to a secure location. congressman aguilar pointed out they were only 40 feet away from the vice president. in fact, an informant told the fbi the proud boys would have killed pence if they had caught him. in newly released photos we see vice president pence was moved to a loading dock where the secret service directed him to get into a car but he refused saying he didn't want the insurrectionists to have the satisfaction of knowing that they forced him to leave the capitol. they directed the response and checked on the safety of congressional leaders. jacobs said he was frustrated that trump didn't call to check on him. after 4 1/2 hours pence went back to the senate chamber and late that night certified the election for joe biden. just as the constitution

provides. greg jacob, who i thought was the most effective presenter today, said that after all of this happened, he e-mailed eastman just to button up our eastman conversation. thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege. he emails him back and says, i implore you to consider one morelltivelily minor violation and adjourn for ten days even as it's all hitting the fan. he's still asking him to violate the law. >> he's begging him in words in writing, in print. i mean, and he's a lawyer. this goes to tell you how brazen and how transparent john eastman's efforts, but remember, it's his efforts that donald trump searched for, right? i mean, donald trump, what we've heard in prior days testimony is donald trump didn't like what he was hearing from his campaign. he did not like what he was hearing from the department of justice. he did not like what he was hearing from mike pence's lawyers or from white house

council and so he went in search for and found the person who would tell him what he wanted to hear, what he was searching for and the thing that enabled him to ginn up the crowd. one point we should just add to the danger to mike pence that day. it was because the foot soldiers in this revolution were actually white supremacists and extremists. that roger stone had been cultivating a relationship with since 2018, who was actively engaged in the war room along with steve bannon who at breitbart did work to normalize and whitewash extremism and white supremacy and that all of this culminates in the proud boys. this is the testimony i'm afraid may have been missed a little bit. the committee pulled this out, that before, before the speech that day the proud boys were already scoping out the capitol and entry points and then we

hear that they may have been within 40 feet of michael pence. >> yeah. >> but what does that tell us about what's at stake in our constitution? it's also about how we're driving racism and hate and violence and i also in addition to greg would add judge luttig in stating this isn't about looking backwards at what happened, this is about looking forward to what will come if we do not interrupt it now. >> indeed. you know, olivia, look, mike pence called it rubber room stuff. it was also extremely dangerous stuff. to maya's point, it's not as if the people around trump didn't know who the proud boys were. they were the people who he told to stand back and stand by. roger stone has a lot of experience with them. they knew who these people were and per the previous testimony that we've seen during these hearings, they were doing recon. some people who made really violent threats were doing recon with members of congress who

were taking them to places that people don't normally go on tours. so they had intel on where to find people. they knew who to find and then they were siphoned off from the rally and sent to the capitol with the mob then coming up behind them. this is mike pence looking at trump. this is when trump finally sends out a video telling everyone to go home. that's one picture we see of mike pence looking wisconsinfully at that. then you've got a picture of pence moments after being evacuated. you can see him with his wife karen, daughter, brother, who voted to decertify the pennsylvania election and voted against having an inquiry into his brother's potential hanging, mike pence seemed to be the odd man out. did he understand donald trump was cultivating extremists around him? did he have any sense what donald trump was bringing his way in your view? >> yeah. my personal opinion is no one

who has worked anywhere near donald trump in that circle, it would be naive to go into this situation and not understand the gravity of what you're dealing with and who donald trump is. we've all lived it. we know what he's capable of and so i'm sure that mike pence that day knew that he was going to incur the wrath even though he was just doing his constitutional duty. to your point and to maya's point, what is really alarming here is the extent of coordination that went on amongst eastman, amongst all these entities and with trump and with domestic extremist groups. and that coordination is ongoing but that is happening. some of these people are running for office. some of them are being installed in critical positions that could be very, very influential or possibly overturn future elections and the threat lives on. the threat was to mike pence's life that day and to our country's leadership, but that threat still loomts large in our communities. these divisions are being

created every single day and they're getting larger. and it's all driven, honestly, by what started off as this lie of a stolen election. and that stolen election narrative continues still today. and republicans, i will say this, this is my own party having been a lifelong republican, continue to enable it. and what i'm hoping is that this hearing -- these hearings will maybe make a dent or a crack in this whole maga foundation that's taken over the republican party and get americans to step back and say, enough, or we've got to start moving in a different direction because this is so fundamentally dangerous for all of us. >> these are important points, dan. you did have the republican party messing around with the tea party. this is quite different. you know, this is the main lining of extremist groups. the proud boys now control the republican party in miami-dade county. dozens of people with this

ideology extremists, christian nationalists, et cetera, are mainstreamed into the party. play mob games win mob prizes. the republican party is dancing with some extremely dangerous people in a bid to gain electoral power. does that fact and that fact that the justice department must be aware of, how does that factor into these indictments? do they then make that connection to the political party that used them as foot soldiers? >> well, i think that the threats and the dissension into sort of this extremist -- these extremist supporters comes from this continued anti-democratic fervor in the republican party. i thought judge luttig at the tail end he was asked to sort of sum up why he is so concerned about the future. but it was his first sentence in the statement today where he

said, our democracy remains on a knife's edge. and that is exactly right. we are in an existential crisis right now about whether we're going to be a democracy going forward or whether we are going to allow for the cult personality, thor ri taryn dictator wanna be down in mar-a-lago want to steal the next election. olivia laid it out very well. that's what they're gearing up to do in 2024. the supporters unquestionably are the supporters and that's why the department of justice focused on the domestic violent extremists who were involved in the riot and the insurrection. they are dangerous people who need to be removed from the street and their charged with very serious crimes. that's important. you see this great replacement theory and all the buffalo shooter and his anti-semetic racist vitriol that led to the

shooting. it is overtaking the republican party and it's a combination, it's a toxic combination of extremism and authoritarianism that is driving this party and it is why we are at such a breaking point. >> let's not forget the mob boss. his vice president deserved to be hanged. they're cultivating extremism up to the top. thank you all very much. still ahead, another major january 6th development today. the committee wants to hear from ginni thomas. ded to be here. ruby's a1c is down with rybelsus®. my a1c wasn't at goal, now i'm down with rybelsus®. mom's a1c is down with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪) in a clinical study, once-daily rybelsus® significantly lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes.

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there was an interesting plot twist before today's hearing started. it comes from none other than a woman married to a sitting supreme court justice, virginia, ginni thomas. we've known she was encouraging the trump plot to overturn the election. what we didn't know and we have found out thanks to "the washington post" is she seemed to have a conversation with john eastman, the man who gave donald trump the dubious distinction to steal the election. eastman argues that there is a heated fight underway at the supreme court over whether to hear arguments about the president's efforts to overturn his defeat at the polls. here's a good time to point out that justice thomas was the lone

dissent in the supreme court's order to withhold documents from the january 6th panel. dimension eastman once clerked for justice thomas. he published the email in question. in it you can see that thomas was asking for an update on his coup attempt. in a statement today eastman said i can categorically confirm at no time did i discuss with mrs. thomas or justice thomas any cases coming before the supreme court. not only did she email eastman, she reached out to trump's chief of staff, mark meadows and to arizona lawmakers. today bennie thompson told reporters that the committee wants to hear from mrs. thomas. >> some information refers to ginni thomas. we think it's time that we would, at some point, invite her to come talk to the committee. >> later he added the committee

has sent a letter to mrs. thomas. thomas who speaks only with right wing media organizations told the "daily caller" she can't wait to clear up misconceptions. i'm going to start with you, jill. three of the emails that were sent to mark meadows by ginni thomas. the majority knows biden and the left are attempting the greatest coup in history. it takes time for the army who is gathering for his back and a third, can't see americans swallowing the obvious fraud just going with one more thing and the with no frickin consequences. we can't continue the gop charade. if you had virginia thomas in front of you on this committee, what would you want to ask her? >> i would want to ask her all the questions about her full

role, not just these emails to eastman, not just her emails and texts to mark meadows, but i want to know more about her planning possibilities. did she participate in planning this? she certainly attended. she said she left because it was cold. not very believable to me, but, you know, maybe it's true. i certainly would want to know that, but i would want to know what she was talking about when the army assembling. what army was she talking about? how much did she know about the attempt to get into the capitol before the actual breach of the capitol? those are things i'd want to know. i'd also want to know more about how she worked with eastman who was her husband's clerk and this nonsense about, well, i live in a different world than my husband, we don't talk about stuff like this. that's just nonsense. he has to recuse himself which is a separate issue from her criminal culpability.

there is the criminal element of her role and then the terrible disservice that he is doing to the credibility of the supreme court by not recusing himself in all these cases. >> you know, i mean, has to recuse? he's doing a lot of work there. there's almost no rules. the supreme court exists in a rules free environment. claire rens thomas said they've melded into one being they work so closely together. yet, here he is being the lone dissent working on the committee of emails that could concern his wife. is there anything that chief justice roberts could do? is there any recourse with clarence thomas having the insurrectionist right there in his home? >> there are rules. there's a federal statute requiring a federal judge or justice to recuse from the case in which his or her impartiality might be questioned. with the united states supreme court, nobody enforces the rules or nobody will enforce the

rules. that's why we need a code of ethics for the supreme court and passed by congress. congress can enforce them through the impeachment clause. i will remind everyone that in 1968 or late 1960s justice abe fortis was forced to leave the court and would have been impeached by the house and maybe convicted by the senate because he took money from a party to a case before the court. apparently under pressure from his spouse. well, perhaps justice fortis should have known the better route would have simply have been for the spouse to become a consultant to the client. fortis recused and he was still forced off the court simply because of the money for the party in the case before the court. justice thomas did not recuse from the thompson case. he needed to recuse. he must have known that his wife was in the middle of this contesting the election business. he must have known that. we don't know how much.

we don't know how much he knew that she was talking with mr. eastman. we will point that out when she testifies in front of the committee, i believe that justice thomas should testify in front of the committee or at least in front of the judiciary committee because the integrity of our courts is absolutely critical and the impartiality of our justices in a case like this. >> that will be a good question, jill winebanks, whether the senate judiciary or house judiciary could separately call justice thomas. we know there are separation of powers issues here but is that a possibility? seems as if he lives in an accountability free zone. >> unfortunately he does live in that accountability free world. possibility? of course there's a possibility. whether fls political will to do it and how long it would take while the court continues to suffer and whether justice roberts could in some way approach justice thomas and say, you're killing the court.

you have to do something here. at this point i don't think that recusal is enough. i think the damage that he has done and the politicization that is apparent from the relationship and, as i said, it's ridiculous to think that justice thomas doesn't know what mrs. thomas is doing or mrs. thomas doesn't know what the cases are before the supreme court. we all know what the cases are and she knows that her case was being decided by him and he was a lone dissenter and the result of losing that case, of it being -- he being the lone dissenter is that we now have these extra documents that show her involvement with eastman. >> yeah. >> so i think it's so obvious that it was wrong of him not to recuse. ridiculous. >> there are so many things that are killing the credibility of the supreme court. clarence thomas is one of them. he's one of the big things. >> thank you both very much. we'll be right back after this.

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on january 5th, 2021, raphael warnock became the first black george began elected to the united states senate alongside jon ossoff and it was fueled by the might of black voters and voters of color. the very next day a maga insurrectionist mob stormed the halls of congress. senator warnock reflected on

these two crucial days in history. warnock wrote of his late father, quote, on january 5th, 2021, his youngest son was elected georgia's first black united states senator and only the 11th in the history. what would he and the one he always knew he could become. joining me now, senator raphael warnock, author of the new book, a way out of no way: and more of two transformation and a new american stock which i'm very excited to read. senator, and our friend, doctor warnock, thank you so much for being here. i really appreciate you. so, tell me what do these two parallel events, what do they say about our country? >> thank you so much, joy. it's great to be here with you. listen, every family has a complicated story, all of our families. and there are parts of family stories that we may not be eager to can. but that's the only way healing comes. and as you point out, i was

elected on january 5th, alongside john ossoff, the state's first black senator and first jewish senator, elected in one fell swoop, i'd like to think, that somewhere martin luther king jr., rob i, they marched alongside one another in selma. and we came to the senate on a wave of multi racial coalition for the sake of the future of the country. then, on january 6th, we saw this violent attack on the capitol, driven by the big lie. and that set a premise that certain voices don't count. you don't get to determine the future of the country. and so, where this inflection point, and we gotta decide, are we the america of january 5th, or the america of january six? i choose january 5th. i choose what martin king called beloved community. and when i think about my dad who i mentioned, i talked about him in that essay, born in 1917, a world war ii veteran, who was

once asked to give up his seat to a white teenager while riding the bus in a uniform. but saw the arc of history in our country, i remain hopeful, and we must all remain vigilant. >> the reality is the january 5th, in some ways, cost january 6th, right? that reality that a state like georgia in the south, a state that historically has been repository of racism, et cetera, and oppression, produces this black to senator, because of the change in the vote. like that's what they were mad about, right? it's this new electorate that's capable of electing a new jon ossoff, so people are angry about that. what do you expect and hope to hear, when to republican members, you know, who are still elected officials in your state, brad raffensperger, who we know donald trump pressured to try to give him the election in his deputy, gabriel sterling, they're gonna testify to the same january 6th committee. what -- do you think anything about what have been changed them and their perspective about politics? >> i think georgia, and a real

sense, saved the country. it gave the country a chance to fight and push towards this ideals, and as a kid who was born and raised in that state, i'm very proud of what the people of georgia did. we, again, have to remain vigilant. as i talk about my story in this memoir, a way out of norway, which by the way, is a phrase that comes out of the black church. it is a phrase, as you know, god makes a way out of no way. it's borne off challenge and oppression. and yet, keeping the faith, even in the midst of challenge, we have to keep the faith, and we have to keep up the fight. and so, i remain hopeful and, i'm not about to give up on our democracy, and it's the most precious think we can defend at a moment like this. >> you speak -- you do your pastor to this church. it shows that ebony's -- do still preach that church? you're still an active pastor.

do you recall with the first sermon is that you preached after the january 6th insurrection, and what you said to that beautiful church? >> yeah, forgive me, i preach every sunday. [laughs] but you know, it all runs really well. i think i talked about this tension, this creative tension, that we live in. an oath speaks to an important part of who we are. we can pretend like january six isn't a part of us, it is. but the good news is, so it's january 5th. and when i think about my own and probable journey, what i think about, not only about my dad, but my mom who grew up in waycross georgia, picking somebody else's cotton and tobacco. those 82 year old hands that used to pick somebody else's cotton and tobacco, picture youngest son to be a united states senator.

and yes, there are challenges. there are moments when the democracy expands. there are moments when it contracts. but, even contractions can give birth to new possibilities and a new world, and we have to fight for it. >> i would be remiss if i did ask you, i need to address it. but what do you make of the fact that the voters on the other side of the aisle, someone like herschel walker, who's a football legend. but given all of its challenges, is there a pound cake speaks version of what black man should be doing in terms of the home, and the reality of the his own situation, these babies. what do you make of that democracy, and the fact that he is who republicans think is fit to serve the united states senate, and to remove you from the senate. >> i think that in the midst of this campaign, the people of georgia have a real choice before them, about who they think is ready to represent them in the united states senate. and proud of my life like

commitment of service, and how i translated that into the senate. and the work that we are doing, the spike for ordinary hardworking families. >> it was very diplomatic. you said it faster, that was very diplomatic. senator raphael warnock, thank you very much. congratulations on the. and special coverage for all of our audience, today's dramatic hearing is coming up next. with all of our friends, you can see them there. don't go anywhere. n't go anywhere. ent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash.

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