good afternoon. you're watching "chris jansing reports" live from new york. today, another new chapter in the expanding and complicated story behind the january 6th insurrection. former trump adviser peter navarro was back in federal court today, pleading not guilty to the charges by the justice department. all that comes against a back drop of an apparent rift between the doj and the 1/6 committee. in fact, we know some lawmakers have grown frustrated with america garland's justice department as many of the bigger place in the scheme, people already heavily featured like john eastman or rudy giuliani, are yet to face charges. the committee has disagreed internally whether to recommend criminal charges against

president trump, partly out of concern it would give the appearance of pressure on the attorney general. politico argues that the first three hearings essentially did that for them, laying out stark evidence that trump and his allying now the election was not rig, but they pushed the big lie anyway. there's new evidence that the department of justice may be growing frustrated against the committee as well. we learned of a strongly worded letter by the doj, in which the department accuses committee members of complicating investigations by withholding transcripts of witness interviews, it says, quote, are not just potentially relevant to the overall communications, but likely relevant to specific prosecutions that have already commenced. however, committee chairman bennie thompson made it clear he is not rushing to help out. >> we've interviewed over 1,000

witnesses, that would mean we have to stop what we're doing to then work with the department of justice. we will eventually cooperate with them. we have five more hearings to work through. weft a lot of other things to do. we have excellent staff, but we can't stop our work because someone writes us a letter. >> i want to bring in nbc's ken dylanian, and garrett haake on the ill, and kevin kirshner. grads to see all of you have, look, glenn, let's talk about this letter. the doj is pretty adamant it needs the committee's cooperation. in fact, they called it critical. what is your take on this? why did they write the letter? >> chris, they're presenting the case to a grand jury. they even say in there there's undoubtedly lots of overlap between the witnesses being presented to the grand jury and

the witnesses who have testified to the january 6th committee. what the federal prosecutors want to make sure they see is the entire university of the testimony of any witness. they may be prepared too ask a grand jury to return indictments against one or more individuals. the last thing they want is for a witness they're relying on to seek that indict to have potentially said something inconsistent in other sworn testimony that they gave before a congressional committee. i think the second reason is they are involved in prosecutions present by against oath keepers and proud boys, if they see any evidence in the public hearings that could assist the defendants, the proud boys and oath keepers, all of whom are entitled to a fair trial, they have to checked it up to fulfill their brady obligations. there is multiple reasons for

them to make this pretty serious request. >> garrett, why not give them what they want? they essentially want the same thing, don't they? they want to see people held accountable for what happened on january 6th. >> reporter: that's right. you heard from bennie thompson there, they don't have the where withall to comply with the doj's request and tucked their investigation. the committee doesn't have a huge staff, but i find it hard to believe that they could spare someone to run down and make copies of the transcripts. >> and there is a bit of sour grapes between the committee and the doj, not very well concealed by committee members when they have given interviews like the doj not backing them up on subpoenas, not following through on contempt cases that they have recommended.

so i don't think you'll see the committee rushes to get in the way of their own investigation to help the doj. when these hearings are done, it might be a different story, but certainly not in the two weeks. >> is there, in your mind, as we look at almost the halfway point there a climb clearly emerging? if so, what is it? and against whom? >> i sure think david carter seems to have gotten it right when he was litigating the john eastman e-mail. he concluded that and he found they committed a sect federal. boy, the evidence we saw about

john eastman's apparently criminal conduct, even conceding he knew some of what he was suggesting, and saying let's do it anywhere, you know, it feels like the investigative circle can't get much tighter, and he is in real. garrett, obviously everyone wants to know if there's culpability for the former much, and he suggested he never suggested to vice president pence to overturn the election. i guess that would mean everybody testifies before the committee is lying. >> reporter: while he may be trying to split hairs, but say the election results be returned to the states, he wasn't asking that done for pure academic study.

everything he has said in the intervening year and a half is that he thinking the eis stolen, and he should still by president. taken on its own, that tweet might have the narrowest sliver of truth to it in what he specifically said to mike pence, but taken across the length and breadth of the what the former president has said, especially after when he became former president. >> person after person after person after person told the former president you lost, and, by the way, this scheme that john eastman has cooked up, absolutely is unconstitutional and has no legal weight. so what do you make of that tweet? and the idea that there is a case building here against the former president.

>> i think that has been laid to rest three times over. everybody but for an apparently inebriated rudy giuliani seemed to be in lockstep that what donald trump was trying to do was not authorized, unlawful, unconstitutional, and yet he went and stepped in the camera the on january 4th, where every adult in the room counseled him against that, because he did not win that election. it will be so easy to infer donald trump's corrupt intent from everything we have heard, when and if we get him inside a courtroom. >> congressman, one of the big takeaways from yesterday seem to be that trump's words put a target on pence's back, and instead of dialing things back on that day, he may have intentionally made things worse. let's take a listen. >> the noise from the rioters became audible, which we

recognized that maybe they had gotten into the building. then president trump treated mike pence didn't have the courage to do lashed have been done to protect our country and our constitution. >> it was clear it was escalating quickly. [ chanting ] >> so when that tweet, the mike pence tweet was sent out, i remember us saying that that was the last thing that needed to be tweeted at that moment. the situation was already bad. so it felt like he was pouring gasoline on the fire by tweeting that. >> carlos, bethain the legal implications, what are the politics of this? is this committee preaching to the converted? do you think this could change voters' minds after you see day after day after day of the case building? >> chris, i think what this does is highlight who donald trump really is, and put it out there

for every american, including his supporters to see, the contempt with which he tweeted mike pence, the hatred he expressed for him, a man who was at his side for over four years, loyally defending hills actions, trying to excuse some of his behaviors, a man who wanted to leave the ticket after the "access hollywood" tape, but stayed. because mike pence did not walk to absolutely loyal to him, basically hung him out there to dry, expressed at least a disinterest for his personal safety and security. this just reminds everyone, including a lot of trump supporters who this man is, what he put this country through, and what he put people who were very close to him through. then there's ginny thomas u.

talking about overturning the election. she says hey, i'm happy to talk to the committee. here's what bennie thompson had to say about that. >> well, look, we have sent ms. thomas a letter, asking her to come and talk to the committee. what you say is, okay -- listen to me. what you said, if she responded while the hearing was going on, that she wants to come, we look forward to her coming. >> glen, maybe he's a little frustrated there. help people understand why she could be important to the narrative. >> if she actually testified truthfully, she could be a hugely consequential. the problem is she would be incriminating herself. we now have information she was reaching out to arizona

electors. the text to meadows alone, she would be cross-examined in great detail by the j-6 investigative team. they would present her with the hard evidence of her own texts to meadows, which included these wild claims of biden crime family members and ballot fraud fraudsters. i think it will be extremely unlikely she will raise her right hand and testify under oath. >> i wonder if you're hearing anything, especially from democrats -- i know a few think and have said already clarence thomas should recuse himself from anything having to do with 1/6, but this might amp things

up. >> the committee has always viewed ginni thomas in the last couple days as tangential to the main things. she's a conservative activist. she involves herself in these issues, but she's been a behind the scenes player in washington for a long time. the bigger issue, as far as other democrats,s have been the ethical questions you raise. if her husband is involved to any of these cases about the 2020 election or future election-related disputes. the pair has always maintain they firewall their professional interests, but that bears more scrutiny than it has gotten in a real forum thus far. there's been a lot of discussion how thick we think that firewall really is. having ginni thomas testify

might be useful for -- >> i want to talk about the judge who said if mime pence had gone along boo the schemes, it would have plunged the kung into a revolution, a constitutional crisis. are there people who may actually agree, but just assume, i don't know, we were never in that much danger to begin with? >> chris, you get the sense that republicans are start to go wake up to the reality of who donald trump was and what he did. look, for sure he is still the dom nap force in the republican party, but that domination is no longer absolute. we have seen a number of primaries where people who have questioned, openly opposed donald trump and his efforts after the 2020 election, have survived, have won. certainly georgia walls a big example of that. california primaries were another example. even south carolina where trump

won one and lost one, you're starting to do that fade. people are starting to realize how dangerous this situation, really if not no mike pence and mitch mcconnell, we might be in an ugly situation in this country, perhaps even worse than the one we're already living. i do have a sense it's having an impact. it's gradual, but people are waking up to what happened, and how prepareius our institutions were at that time. >> and ken is against that backdrop, which is very wide, that peter navarro, was an assistant back then. >> the white house trade adviser pleaded not guilty to the contempt of congress charges after he refused to comply with a subpoena for documents and testimony, and a man who once had a lot to say after hi ace

rest have lawyered up and quieted down. after first saying he would represent himself, because he didn't want to spend his retirement savings on lawyers, as he put it, he now has two attorneys who signed up, and has withdrawn the civil lawsuit he filed late last month which claimed the committee wasn't properly set up and had no authority to issue subpoenas. his lawyers today asked the judge when the trial could be delayed until early next year, because he has a book coming out in the fall and want to engage in a marketing campaign, but they'll need time to analyze what is complex legal issues, but the judge said it's not that complicated a indicate. he set the trial date for november 17th. navarro and his lawyers briefly spoke to reports after the hearing, and navarro let his lawyer, john raleigh do most of the talking. he criticized the government's handling of navarro's arrest

earlier this month, saying he had never seen any so outrageous. he was strip simped, placed in leg irons and denied a phone calls. prosecutors responded that fbi agents offered to contact an attorney, but he wanted to use his phone to let a media outlet know he was likely to miss a scheduled tv interviews. >> tv interviews, book tours, but courts take precedence. thank you. a great conversation. thank you so much. another big headline from that hearing, the run on presidential pardons. who may have gotten one that we don't know about. we'll talk to a pardons expert, ahead. but first, gas prices at record highs, a new survey of ceos that found almost two thirds of them now expect a recession. i'll talk to gene sperling, senior adviser to the president,

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stocks are all over the place, up, down all day after a brutal week of selloffs and plunging share prices. a live look now at the dow, in positive territory by 117, but investors know this is officially bear market territory. meanwhile, the price of gas is at a record high. the average price for a gallon

of regular is exactly $5. diesel all the way up to $5.79. these are some of the highest prices in almost 50 years. what's more, little signs of relief it could come soon, but president biden is doubling down on his direct appeal to oil companies. he did a new interview with the associated press, say, in part -- in the short term, do the right thing. don't buy back your own stock. don't, don't just reward yearselves. gene sperling, the president was clear in his message to oil companies. what can you tell us about the mindset? >> listen, we understand the overwhelming force has been the unthinkable aggression by russian in ukraine. on january 17th, when putin

started moving troops, prices were actually $3.31. that was in real terms below averages over the last ten years. now, as you say, $5, $1.70 higher at the gas bumps for american families. even higher increases in european countries. the president has tried to blunt that with the strategic petroleum release but he directed a lot of what he had to say to the oil companies, particularly refining profits. now we are below capacity, while they are having record profits, $35 billion, 225% margins.

you've seen the analysis saying when oil prices were at this level in the past, gas prices at the pump had still been 75 cents lower, so yes, he has a direction message. we are at a time of war. this is not a time to be focusing on record profit margins and stock buybacks, as on posed to doing everything you can to expand refinery capacity so that we have lower prices at the pump again, this is a time of war, and he's having the secretary of energy meet with the major refiners and oil companies next week. he made clear he's using a lot of emergency powers so far, and there's nothing off the table. >> as you know, the american petroleum institute seats it very differently. they pointed the finger at the administration's efforts to move

away from foss 8 fuels as the real culprit here. what do you say to them? >> we have a report production of natural gas, near record production of oil. they're saying even though the refining capacity they took off-line that we're dealing with, happened under the previous administration, not this administration. listen, the president is talking directly to them. the secretary of energy is talking directly to them. we're trying to work together, but that's not a satisfaction torrie response. i tell you, a lot of family would think that 75 cents a gallon would be a big help right now.

>> there was one survey recently that said 60% of ceos expect a recession. the president does not believe a recession is -- >> we think that too many people are not working at the more reassuring elements of this economy right now. they're not realizing that the american rescue plan put a historic number of people back to work. you know, today we just got out state unemployment numbers. there are 30 states in the united states where their unemployment rate is already below what it was before the pandemic hit. that's remarkable progress -- >> i have to stop you. >> 15 of those states are at the lowest level of ungloimt level. >> that's true, but we have a situation with the fed raising

rates. a lot of corporations are already talking about layoffs, already talking about putting the brakes on hiring. should we brace for higher unemployment -- for higher rates of unemployment? >> well all know that the record smashing numbers we have seen on job, the 6.5 million in 2021, the most ever. we understand those type of report performances doesn't go on forever, and you need to transition to a more stable and balanced economic growth with lower prices. what we are saying is having so many americans working, back in the workforce, with less household debt service, with stronger checking accounts, all of those things mean more americans have a degree of resilience. we're not putting out a crystal

ball saying we can predict all the risks in the economy and global economy, but we are saying when you look at the united states, when you look at the impact that the american rescue plan has had on employment, household economic security, we think we are better positioned to make that transition to more balanced, stable growth, even in light of some of the tough steps that the federal reserve is likely to take to tame inflation. that might include a higher ungloimt rate? >> the types of things even the federal reserve were talking about were all still at historically low unemployment rates. we do believe we can make this transition while keeping a large amount of the historic gains wove seen in the labor market, in the job market, in terms of the unemployment rate. just this month, just this week, we got another strong number on

unemployment claims, and saw again really remarkable fact that 30 states have unemployment rates not only have they recovered, but below where we were before when the pandemic hit. >> gene sperling, thank you for the times. >> thanks so much. in alabama, an investigation is underway after a gunman opened fire, killing two people, injuring another. what local authorities are now saying. gun legislation being crafted by a bipartisan group of senators. well, that deal has hit a road block. that's next. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. jansing reports" only on msnbc ories of . i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be.

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had been an occasional attendee at church services. how frequently was not specified, but somewhere between 5:00 and 6:30 p.m., which is on the church's website when this potluck dinner was taking place. he started firing. the calls came in at 6:22 according to police. only after the 71-year-old man pulled out a conceal handgun and started shooting, killed an 84-year-old man, a 75-year-old woman. another 84-year-old woman is injured in the hospital, so three families and lived shattered by the sequence of events. investigators are not tipping their hands much on whether or not there was interaction with law enforcement. i also asked if he obtained a weapon legally. the captain told me we're not taking any more questions, and the issue is how much more loss of life there could have been.

license to this exchange. captain, how many people were inside the church. you described the -- >> it was extremely critical in saving lives. the person that subdued the suspect, in my opinion, is a hero. i don't know how many people were in the meeting at the time of the ehaven't, but the person that subdued him is a hero. >> reporter: chris, we also know that the pastor of the chump was leading a pilgrimage at the time. he had 20 parishioners in greece. they still there. the pastor is on his way back. it's also noteworthy in this small community where we are, they were 300 to 4u7bz -- 400 cars of a local church, a different church, as he they would service to honor the lives they lost. this is the same process we are

seeing repeated all over this country, as the nightmare -- where the police chief said is one of the safest cities in alabama. >> we should get you up to date on the legislation that's being talked about, the four key senators negotiating that landmark gun safety package are now at an impasse over a major sticking known as the boyfriend loophole. for many americans, the issue of gun violence is wrapped up in images of random attacks by strangers, but in reality, nearly one in three homicides in the u.s. are domestic, a category that includes killings by intimate partners, parents, siblings, other family members. one in six specifically involves the killing of an intimate partner. in 53% of mass shootings, an intimate partner is a victim. a source tells nbc that negotiators are dug in.

according to that source, either the democrats accept what the republicans are asking for on the boyfriend loophole, oy it's dropped entirely. we'll keep you posted on that. also in washington, new questions surrounding the power of presidential pardons. as evidence suggests, john eastman may have known that his efforts to overturn the election were illegal, but did it anyway. you're watching accounts chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. c new dove ultimate antiperspirant. our unique water based formula and 6x more glycerin. helps restore skin to its best condition. new dove ultimate. ♪ i want to rock and roll all night ♪ ♪ and party every day. ♪ ♪ i want to rock and roll all night ♪ applebee's late night. because half off is just more fun. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. fishing helps ease my mind.

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new questions today about presidential pardons after yet another revelation from the january 6th committee that those pardons were in hot deup and down after january 6th. the latest revelation, 1/6 commit year members showed that john eastman was aware that the memo was in fact not legally sound. as if to one wait the point, just days after the

insurrection, eastman reached out about legal protection. >> dr. eastman e-mailed rudy giuliani, and requested to be on the list of potential recipients for a presidential pardon. the e-mail stated, quote -- i decided i should be on the pardon list if that is still in the works. dr. eastman did not receive hi president uses pardon. >> he was not on the list of 116 who received the trump pardon that year, appeared later pled the fifth more than 100 times in his deposition to the committee. jo inning me now is kermit roosevelt, professor at the university of pennsylvania's kerry law school. good to see you. so, isn't a logical inference that people would probably make, if you're asking for pardon, there is a consciousness of guilt there? >> yeah, i think that's true.

if you think you'll be prosecuted unfairly, you might want a pardon also, but it seems from the behavior, the memos he wrote, he knew he was breaking the law. he news hi plan was in violation of existing federal statutes. >> as sort of the other side of the coin, if eastman pled the fifth more than 100 times because he did not get a pardon, could that also mean that some people who did testify before the committee, and whose testimony potentially rised questions about their own criminal liability may have pardons, we just don't know it? >> i think it's unlikely there's secret pardons we don't know about. i mean, that would be extremely unusual, but if -- >> let me read, if i can -- there were a lot of people we know interested in pardons. not just eastman.

i want to remind folks of what liz cheney said earlier this week. >> representative perry contacted the white house in the weeks after january 6th to seek a presidential pardon. multiple other republican congressmen also sought presidential pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the 2020 election. >> so what do we those about what you mentioned, secret pardons? i think they're sometimes called pocket pardons? is it possible to know how rare they are? >> well, you know, if it works and it's completely secret, you don't know, but the pardon is only valuable if someone tries to prosecutor you. in that case, it would come out. historically we just adopt have a lot of examples of this. >> let me read the guidelines from the website of the office of the pardon attorney -- the specific reasons for the president's decision to grand or deny a petition generally are not disclosed by either the

white house or the department of justice. documents reflecting deliberative communications pertaining to presidential decisionmaking such as the department's recommendation to the president in a clemency matters are confidential and not available. i think typically because we get these lists of who he pardoned, and often we don't get a big long explanation or any explanation at all of why we decided what he did decide. tell me a bit about that process, and about the whole idea that this is unilaterally something that any president can do. >> well, generally in our constitutional system we don't like to give too much authority to one person. the pardon power looks dangerous, because it's totally up to the president. we do worry about corrupt pardons. there are procedures that the

president usually does follow in granting pardons or considering them. the trump administration ignored a bunch of those. trump's grant of pardons has been much more ad hoc and individualized, less systematic than his predecessors. >> there's a lot of talk about whether a president could preemptively pardon himself. that's up for debate, isn't it, in the legal community? >> it is up for debate. that's one of those things where you would hope it would never happen, it seems so obviously corrupt, that you would think no president would ever do that. of course, one of the things we saw with trump was presidents do things you couldn't mac, or at least that president did. >> kermit roosevelt, thank you. we appreciate your time. lots more to talk about, including flooding, fire, dangerous heat and violent storms. could this become or new normal because of climate change?

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over climate change. officials at yellowstone national park expect to remain closed for a substantial amount of time after floods submerged home, tore out infrastructure and even changed the course of rivers. now the area's main source of income, summer tourism, is at a complete halt. meanwhile, western wildfires have forced thousands of evacuations as hot, dry and windy weather fan the flames. then there's the heat waves from nebraska to south carolina, which at one point put a third of the u.s. under advisories. just this last week, chicago faced hurricane force winds and temperatures in triple digits. just this morning president biden convened a meeting of more than 20 of the world's largest economies. >> we cannot let the goal for

climate goals get out of reach. >> joining me is director of the earth sign center at pen state university and author of "the new climate war." all of these extreme weathers, what does it tell us about global warming? >> thanks, chris. it's good to be with you this is climate change. for a long time climate change seemed like something far off in the distant future, that maybe it impacted polar bears up in the arctic but it wasn't really a problem for us. that's no longer true. we are now seeing the impacts of climate change, a play out in realtime, in our headlines. that's what we're seeing in the united states, in europe, record

breaking heat in some parts of the continents, unprecedented flooding. one thing you left off your list was a line of tornadoes that came through the midwest. here in central pennsylvania we were under a tornado watch yesterday. that all has to do not just with a warmer planet that produces more heat and more moisture, which can produce large amounts of rainfall, but it also has to do with the unusual way that the jet stream is behaving and we think that climate change is actually altering the behavior of the jet stream that makes it sort of get stuck in these very wavy patterns. when it's very wavy, there are big high and low pressure centers underneath those ridges and troughs in the jet streams and wildfire in one place and extreme rainfall in other places. >> the president just said the science tells us the window for

action is rapidly narrow. how rapid and how narrow is it? >> rapid and narrow. we have less than a decade to bring carbon emissions down globally by 50% if we are to remain on a path that keeps warming below that sort of catastrophic 1.5 degree celsius, 3 degree fahrenheit warming of the planet when things get much worse and extremes we haven't seen before. that isn't someplace we want to go. we want to prevent the problem from getting worse. we need to carbonize our environment. there's an opportunity to pass climate legislation this term in congress, if we can get a few stragglers to get behind some, you know, basic policies that would incentivize renewable energy that would begin to defund infrastructure for fossil fuels. these are things we need to do

now. we can't wait. we have to get on that path immediately if we are to prevent the worst impacts of climate change. >> we've only got 30 seconds but i have to ask you, do you think because of the economic impact, not to mention lives lost because of the extreme weather conditions, governments that have been slow to act, members of congress who have been slow to act might actually take more action? >> well, let's hope so. we never thought that we would see any possibility of any sort of common sense gun legislation, and we're seeing that now because there's a demand on the part of the people, because people are crying out and demanding their policy makers to do something. we need to see the same thing with climate. we need to demand that our policy makers act now before it is too late. >> michael mann, good to see you. thank you so much for being with us today. meantime, montana's governor is back in his state right now surveying the devastating flood damage we showed you, but his

return comes after a six-day absence and a lot of questions about why he didn't rush back from what his spokesperson called a long scheduled personal trip to deal with the historic flooding and its economic impact. now we're learning he was on vacation with his wife in tuscany and got back just last night. most montana residents didn't know he was away until wednesday because that's when the state's formal request for disaster relief showed up on the president's desk signed by the lieutenant governor. >> babies and toddlers are one step closer to being vaccinated against covid. how soon it could happen. don't forgive to tune in every day 1:00 eastern time on msnbc. don't go anywhere. i'll be back next hour after this short break. this short break this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place.

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