>> yeah. >> yeah. >> exactly. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales. thank you for watching. welcome to the show, i'm zerlina maxwell, ginni thomas the wife of supreme court thomas was here to -- donald trump's elections to overturn the election. the constitutional law said the unprecedented involvement of a justices spouse in an attempted coup. and black americans are buying guns at new record levels. we'll take a look at why. but we start with the latest hearing, by the january 6th

select committee. many of us went into the hearings thinking that we knew what happened. a u.s. president wanted to overturn the election, spurred a mob to attack the capitol. forcing the lawmakers there to flee for their lives. but these hearings are showing us so much more than that. for more of what happened that day, and how close we came to losing our democracy. so, how goes? here's how congressman pete aguilar described it. >> approximately 40 feet, that's all there was. 40 feet between vice president and the mob. >> 40 feet! 40 feet! of a mob, that according to an informant, in the -- would have killed vice president mike pence, if they had not gotten hold of him. >> i'm telling you what, i'm hearing the pits. i'm hearing the pits just caved. is that true? i'm hearing on the force that

pence caved. if pence caved? we're gonna drag people through the streets. hang mike pence! hang mike pence! bring out pence! >> the threat to the vice president's life was so intense in the media, that the secret service hustled him and his family quickly, downstairs, to a secured evacuation area where they stayed for four and a half hours. these are images of the vice president of the united states, in wet a looks like a parking garage? and it looks like something that you would see out of a movie, where a high-ranking public official sometimes becomes [inaudible] . that's the plot. this is real life, and the pressure campaign by trump and his allies on pence to block the certification of joe biden's win, including, in quote, a heated phone call between trump and pence on the morning of january 6th. which ivanka trump, and others,

are telling the committee that this is what they heard on trump's and. >> my memory, i remember hearing the word wimp. the word that she relayed to the president, that the president called the vice president, sorry to be polite. do you remember what she said? and they called him. >> the p-word? >> joining us, our kamila, the senior reporter for business insider. and political analyst. camille i will start with you. what are your main takeaways from the interviews so far? >> i thought the last hearing was very explosive, for the fact that the committee presented never before seen evidence of how much they tried to pressure mike pence to try to stop congress's election certification process. even though the advisor, and john eastman, was told by a lawyer in the trump white house that what he wanted to do was

unconstitutional. that mike pence did not have the authority to stop an election certification process. and despite all of these concerns, and all of the legal advice that trump had given, they still went ahead to tell his base that pence had the authority to do so. and really, and truly, just gives evidence to the main argument that he wants to make. and that is, trump played an essential role in prompting the january six insurrection. and not only did he prompt it, but in the minutes before the insurrection, and after the insurrection, he broke several laws. so this is just really, the past hearings, they have a lot of evidence, a lot of testimony. to really strengthen the argument that they are trying to make. >> it's so fascinating to watch this unfold in realtime. given the fact that i'm sure all of us had predictions about what we would see. because we read all of the reporting. susan, at the end of the day, we can all agree, i think, that mike pence did the right thing. you don't want to go against

the constitution, do anything unlawful. to overturn an election when the american people voted in a different way. you stood there in the void, to save democracy. but there are some questions why he didn't say something sooner. or publicly declare, much sooner, that he could not change the election results? i mean, lay that out for us. do you think that the fact that pence did not stand up publicly, sooner, added at all to the chaos and damage that we have seen happen, not just on that day but through the integrity of our democracy? >> well we've certainly seen a lot of would've, could've, should've. from monk pence and others. what they should've done, what they could've done. and some of them, what they would have done if they could've done. and, at the end of the day. it's not surprising when you look at the people who donald trump surrounded himself. and how they acted all along. mike pence served as donald trump's lapdog for four years.

so am i surprised that he did not do something public? beforehand? absolutely not. forehandi am happy though, and m relieved and grateful that he did the right thing at the right time. and these attorneys, they did make the argument. they did lay out the case before january 6th, and said, this is unconstitutional. but, one of my biggest takeaways, i was thinking about this last night zerlina. is that i'm watching this all unfold. and it's been said many times that it's important that there are these republican voices speaking out. these are the people who worked for donald trump. and, they associated with him. they supported him. the important thing here, i think now, is that it's not just about history. which i've said before. but, i think that it is laying out the case to the american public, before merit garland has to try to do it. i think it is laying out enough

information. should the doj start to pursue charges against the former president, or anybody else, the american public has seen all of this testimony ahead of time. and it gives him, i don't want to say cover, but, we were meant to find out after the fact. we're seeing everything happen. we're seeing what the doj case looks like after. now we're seeing what it looks like potentially before. and i think that will make a big difference. and allowed the general public to understand why these charges, if they are filed, have been filed. >> and in terms of that evidence, kamila, one of the things i've been struck by is the amount of new information that we have learned since the beginning of these hearings. through the course of three hearings, every hearing i'm like. i didn't know that. this is a new photo, a new press release.

this is a new piece of video. i mean, speak to the amount of new evidence that we have seen and that it has actually been quite a few bumps. >> right, i mean as you have noted. there has been a lot of new evidence in these hearings. and we felt that prior to the committee even holding these hearings. that they were gonna show never before seen footage and witness testimonies. to really bolster their claims about how trump orchestrated all of these events in an attempt to try to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. i think it's really telling that during these hearings, we have republican officials, who are in the room with trump while he is decisions are being made. one of the really biggest revelations that came out of these past hearings, was how jon he's been, was advised multiple times about how unconstitutional to have pence try to stop the certification process. but only deemed after the

january 6th insurrection. he then emailed rudy giuliani asking for a presidential pardon. that moment when he sent that email, is acknowledgment about what he thought was unlawful. so i think it's exactly what you've been saying. that this is evidence that they're presenting. this was almost a ten month investigation, let's not forget that. they interviewed more than 1000 people, they have hundreds of thousands of documents. so this is really something that they really try to do a thorough job with. the scope and depth of what actually occurred on the january 6th insurrection. as we know, the justice department is conducting justice clarencethomas their own investigation and they know what's happening to hand over the transcripts of what this testimony is. so that's really telling that the committee is really been seeing. and the justice department hasn't seen before. and that's why these are really compatible. they may have evidence that nobody seen, not even at the highest level of government. >> miller, and christened.

great to have you here today. joining us is constitutional law scholar, and harvard law school professor. professor, to keep this conversation going. about what has happened. but also, the new revelations that come out through reporting. and through the hearings. i want to start with ginni thomas. because, i think it is really unprecedented feels like an overused word at this point. you have the right of a supreme court justice, caught up in the middle of this larger conspiracy. allegedly, that we're learning about through these hearings. but talk us through it. what were your main takeaways from the latest committee hearings, now that we have this new reporting about ginni thomas laid out on top of all of this? thomaswell the ginni thomas stos interesting. but, it's really a sideshow. it's an important sideshow in a sense that if her husband, justice clarence thomas, had

his way, we wouldn't really know about all of the conversations between them ginni thomas and this weirdo, john eastman. john eastman would have not come to the surface in connection with her. and therefore, we wouldn't have known the full extent of the conspiracy. the reason that is true, is that the code voided 8 to 1. with the one being justice thomas descending. that the national archives had to release all sorts of information that included information about the justice's wife. so in other things, he was violating the federal statute that requires all justices and judges to not take part in proceedings in which their spouse is involved, but it is a sideshow if you ask, what do we really learn? what we learned is how the pieces fit together. we learned that all of the talk about a stolen election, was

just hot air. nobody could find any evidence of it. the president kept claiming that there was a big steal. but everybody around him, the attorney general even, told him. mister president, that is just an attorney general's words. bullshit. there is no evidence to back you up. and they basically didn't care. so we've learned that it is absolutely clear that all of the stuff about the election had been stolen isn't true. but, quite apart from that. we have learned, in great detail. that whether it was true or not. the laws in place for deciding who is the next president. the laws that this president, the 45th president, donald trump, who is quite eager to violate, if that's the way he could stay in office. where he could seize and hold on the power. so he finds this weird lawyer, digs him up because it is really hard to find any lawyer who would possibly argue that

the vice president of the united states has unilateral power to name the next president. that would've been great news for al gore, in the u 2000s when he played the role that pence played this time. it would've been great news for richard nixon in 1960. it's crazy, it's not. when people say the legal theory is not right. that makes it sound fancy. it's not fancy. you don't even have to go to law school to know that. ask anybody, a fourth grader. do you think that in our system of government, one person picks the next president? it's ridiculous! there is no basis for it. as the judge loosely pointed out. and what we've learned in that connection is, the president knew it. but, the lawyer that he found to concoct another theory told him, ultimately, in front of the president. told the president and his

aides, we would lose 9 to 0 in the u.s. supreme court if it really came to that. but here's the weird part, he then said, but not to worry. because the court, he promises, would not take part. maybe his friendship with ginni thomas had something to do with his interviews, if that's what would happen. but what does it mean? it means that we can get away with, i was gonna say get away with murder. that's usually just a metaphor, but in this case when we look at, would i regard as a smoking gun that came out during the hearings, that tweet from the president at 2:24 in the afternoon, afternoon we had seen that this bond was really riled up. they were talking about dragging people out to the gallows. they were talking about killing the vice president, killing the speaker of the house, they are all wild up. and then he says to him, the vice president who is in that building that you are about to

break into, he is the power. he's not gonna keep us in power. remember this is a group that he has already told that the election was stolen. now he's telling them that the process for deciding whether it was stolen, is being abused by a traitor. by none other than the vice president. when you put that all together, it is overwhelming. and i think that susan was right when she said that the impact of all of this being seen by tens of millions of people, is that it's not going to be quite as shocking when the attorney general decides to approve a prosecution of the former president. increasingly, it's going to be shocking if he doesn't. people will be stunned to know that in our system of government, there is one person who, once in that oval office, can violate whatever laws they want to stay there forever. the business about two terms only. what does that mean? if the president can just

violate the law and get away with it. jusit is such an important poit about the founders. i do not think we let britain and georgia third come here to let mike pence decide the election. this is not what the founders intended. thank you so much for helping us understand this and be safe. coming up, to those accused or even convicted of intending the insurrection, and be allowed to run for public efforts? this is looming over a number of -- this is this midterm election. we will talk about this coming up next. up next. n. uh, how come we don't call ourselves bikers anymore? i mean, "riders" is cool, but "bikers"...is really cool. -seriously? -denied. can we go back to meeting at the rec center? the commute here is brutal. denied. how do we feel about getting a quote to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? should flo stop asking the same question every time? -approved! -[ altered voice ] denied!

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that fateful day in january, 2021, still donald trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present danger to american democracy. >> that was testimony from retired appeals court judge michael, from the hearing on thursday. he is sounding the alarm over what he feels is a clear and

present danger over our democracy. the warning comes as allies of the former president will embrace the fraud claims who work to install themselves throughout the government. candidates like mastriano and pennsylvania. nova and in ohio. they are all front runners in the respective races. there are also lawmakers in office who are attempting to whitewash what happened with the insurrection. one progressive organization is urging election officials in states to block lawmakers as well as the former president from holding elected office. joining me now is joseph, the executive director of our revolution, one of the organizations behind this initiative. there is a section three of the 14th amendment which forbids election officials to engage in insurrection, rebellion, or giving aid or comfort to those who have. speak to the significance of

that. lay out clearly for us how banning these folks is in the constitution. >> zerlina, i want you to know one thing, the january 6th hearing are important. but they are reminding the american people what we already know. john donald trump and his conspirators are a danger to the republic. here is the thing, while congress has the power to investigate and expose and does not have the power to punish or prosecute those who violated the constitution. our constitution is clear. if an elected official took an oath of office like donald trump did, like marjorie taylor greene did, and then they engaged in insurrection. they try to overthrow the government. they are disqualified from

serving in government ever again. that power to punish vowels -- falls in these hands of secretary of state and chief election officers across the country. the constitution empowers them to say, you do not need age or residency inquiries. it also empowers them to say that if you engage in violent overthrow of the united states government, you are unfit for office. we are calling on secretary states to do their jobs right now. >> how dangerous do you think it is to have folks who were allied with the insurrectionists wanting to overturn the last election, in office, when there is another election coming right up? >> again, as we said, there is a clear and present danger to the republic. there was a vast white right wing conspiracy led by donald

trump. it was joined by doug mastriano, scott perry, and other elected officials, who are still seeking power and trying to embed themselves more deeply in critical positions around the country. here is what we know. donald trump is already talking about running in 2024. we have a slate of insurrectionists who are running for a higher office in 2022. if we do not stop them now, there is a fundamental threat to our democracy that is looming in the horizon. >> we have 30 more seconds here, why do you say that it is rigging the game before it even starts? >> in terms of rigging the game, yes, that is right. the gop, there are strategists, are trying to rig the game by

putting election deniers in critical positions. they are trying to perpetuate the big lie. they are the ones who are committing election fraud. the only way to hold them accountable is for secretary of state and election officials to take the state that is being on earth from the j 6th hearings and use them to ban these criminals from the ballot. they have no place in our government. >> joseph, thank you so much for being here today and discussing with us. please stay safe. coming up, ukraine gets a major endorsement when it comes to a push to join the eu appearing union who is supporting the country's efforts to join the organization? this is coming up next. ng up next the highest level of safety you can earn? subaru. when it comes to longevity, who has the highest percentage of

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european union recommended on friday that ukraine be granted europeans status. this comes as the leaders of germany, france, and italy, in a joint visit to kyiv, vowed to support their inclusion in the eu. boris johnson also made a surprise visit to ukraine, his second in two months, to offer help with the ukrainian military. this is well the war ravages on on eastern ukraine as all of the bridges connecting the twin cities have been destroyed. saw thousands of civilians are

trapped inside one of the deadliest battles of the war so far. here to discuss and help us understand the latest as michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia and national security analyst clint. i will start with you. give us a sense of what is happening on the ground right now. >> selina, the russians are fighting more like we thought that they would when the war kicked off. several things have happened. one, they integrated and concentrated their forces, rather than doing a very disastrous plan in the beginning, trying to take kyiv and topple degree ukrainian government within a week, they are realizing that if they want to take a ground they have to do it militarily and a way that they have to fight. this is by using armor formations reinforced with overwhelming amounts of military artillery and force. they are doing this in the east. severodonetsk is the critical location. they are pounding with artillery. on both sides of the battle,

ukraine and russia, you are seeing hundreds of casualties per day. this will essentially lead to 1 to 2 months of hard-fought battle. a period where you will see a stalemate. it is going to be hard for either side to sustain this amount of casualties in this combat and intensity. the russians are doing this because they want to do take a donbas. they are mutually supporting, they are grinding out very slowly. the ukrainians are defending valiantly and doing quite well. there's only so much in out man and i'm out g.a.r. armed -- there's no motion out manned and out armed people can do in the east right now. >> tell us what's happening on in terms of on the ground in this war. ambassador, help us understand the political side of this. there is more international support this week from european leaders visiting kyiv. boris johnson on the u.s. visited the country. help us understand how this is

factoring in, in terms of the foreign policy analysis. >> -- this is paired with what clinton just explained with what happens on the ground. the symbolic of pieces are much better than the military pieces. the clips you were just showing, it is very important that all four leaders were there from europe. and boris johnson went today. they all said that ukraine should be in the european union. this was a very positive signal that the ukrainians wanted to hear. they expected to be ratified at the summit in about ten days time. that is all good on the symbolic side. on the diplomatic side and on the aspirations to join the european union. at the same time, the battle is not going well in donbas. the ukrainians want more weapons. they want them faster. they want better weapons so that they can shift the balance of power on the battlefield

with, which right now, is against them. they are losing. it is not quickly. it's important to understand that it has been a slow attrition, as flint described. they need more weapons. they need more artillery. they need more longer range missiles to stop russia's advance. that's what they need more than symbolic statements about how they should be in the european union. >> clint, we have talked to folks earlier in the week about some of the weapons and support that we did send, not having the appropriate batteries, or the ukrainian military not having the training to use some of the weapons that we were sending. can you help us understand what their complaints are to date, about the support that we are sending. help us understand what else they are asking for. >> selina, one of the things that is jumped over in our discussions in the news is that there is an entire military supply chain that normally

supports everything involved in our combat operation. to take a u.s. weapon system, send it over to ukraine, even if we train them like we do with some of our artillery pieces in poland, it is not the same. there is not a logistical trail of parts, supplies, maintenance, ammunition, that are all tracking and supporting the units in the same way that we do with the u.s. military. this is ultimately what makes the u.s. military superior. similarly, a lot of the systems are more complicated. without training, it is very difficult to get up to speed and use it properly. switchblade drones, there has been a lot of talk about them. the ukrainians are using them. they are going to be much more comfortable oftentimes about an out of the drop box drone that they can adapt and use in ways that are more appropriate for what they can fit stain as a small unit of people that are moving around and things like a car or van. they are not moving around in military equipment. i think the last part is, there are still weapons in the west, to give any weapons at an

advanced lab vote. or do we do not want to create havoc or bring the conflict into a larger scale or scope, beyond the boundaries of ukraine. how to balance and measure all of this, how to do logistics without being inside of the country. the supplies are coming from poland. it is a long way from poland in the donbas. it is very hard to do, even in these time, for the military. we do it better than anyone. who's going to do it in ukraine when they need every soldier at the frontlines fighting against the russians? >> it is a really helpful explanation. it is a complex problem. michael, in terms of some of the other diplomatic threats that we are following, the third american has gone missing in ukraine. he is a former marine. what do we know about this? what are the families of these americans who are missing a fearing right now? >> i do not know if we know a lot about that third american.

we have heard threats from the russian government officials about foreign fighters in ukraine. they said they planned to kill them. this would be a gross violation of international law. now we have americans added to that list. i hope that they will retreat from those kinds of threats. that is another thing that we have to underscore. the russians right now, vladimir putin speaking at his st. petersburg international economic forum. he spoke very earlier today. he sounds like he is not done. he said, i plan to complete all of my military objectives inside of ukraine. while his army is advancing, there will not be any peace negotiations, no diplomacy. if you want to end this war, we need to an arm ukrainians faster and with better weapons to stop the assault on the battlefield. i think it is that simple. it is tragic to sit back and watch as hundreds of ukrainians, hundreds of russians to, they

are dying. lots of people are dying. it feels a little bit like world war i. a lot of people are dying, no movement, would not be better to end this war right now? >> clint watson, michael mccaul, a very great to talk to both of you. it helps me to understand so many different facets of this complicated story. please stay safe. thank you again. coming up, majority of gun shops have seen an increase in purchases. why is that? we will talk about it coming up next. ng u next find a new way. but birthdays still happen. fridays still call for s'mores. you have to make magic, and you're figuring out how to do that. what you don't have to figure out is where to shop. because while you're getting creative, walmart is doing what we always do. keeping prices low for you every day. so you can save money and live better. ♪

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person is injured after a gunman opened fire in a church near birmingham alabama on thursday. is the latest in a string of deadly shootings over the last several weeks which comes as friday marks seven years when someone open fired in a charleston area killing nine

black people. people of color continued to be gunned down as they go about their daily lives. a couple of weeks ago, they were going grocery shopping in buffalo new york. it does not come as a shock that there are record highs spikes right now, going on right now, in gun sales among black americans. according to the national sports shooting foundation, 90% of gun retailers reported an increase of black customers. joining me now is msnbc columnist case a brown. i'm obsessed with the story. there are a lot of jokes about how black people survive anything. we usually see the matrix early. when the msnbc news piece, a man who purchased a gun after the buffalo, shooting said that a lot of black people had the same idea saying quote, it is getting bad when someone specifically targets black people to shoot. we have to be prepared to fight back. you cannot survive bringing a knife to a gunfight, or a pen

to a test. and quote. it is the feeling to black americans? it started in the racial reckoning protests in 2020. >> it makes sense on a certain level, that amidst all of this upheaval, amidst all this uncertainty, black americans, especially those who do not feel protected by the state, want to make sure that they can protect themselves and their families. when the police, who are supposed to be the ones who enforce the law, who are authorized to use of violence on behalf of state are using violence against you and your family and your people in the community. it makes sense that they want to go out and be able to say i want to be with myself. it makes sense on this level. i feel like it falls into a lot of the fallacies that we hear about debate in general. black people go to stores and get these guns to protect yourselves. >> one of the things that

happens, and we've seen it in some cases like in the case of castile, a black person with a gun whether it's legal or not, can be seen as threatening. talk about this difference. talk about the difference of perception for black people to buy guns in self-defense or white people who say the by ar-15s for that some same reason. they say they buy it for self-defense but i think they are defending themselves from different things. >> yes, absolutely. this is even in the application of the segment and through the country's history. right after the civil war, there were many states, especially in the south, that change their laws to say that only white free men are allowed to own guns. during the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s with malcolm x and the black panthers were trying to have arms in public, and suddenly people were like, whoa, whoa, what are you doing with those guns? they tried to go pass more gun control laws. there is an uneven application

of the law on that front. >> i would also be curious to know, it is not just the racial reckoning protest, but do you think that a case like ahmaud arbery, for example, could be a huge catalyst. this is given that we have a history of lynching and racialized violence. it is not just like that there is unrest in a broad sense, but that you see black people living their lives and being targeted by white supremacist. do you think that people, and black folks, especially those in the story, have an understanding of this historical uptake and the violence that is causing this uptick? >> they do know about the history. it is weighing on their minds. the idea that they could be targeted at any time and need to protect myself. then you get into the same problems that you talk about when you think about the gun debate at large and that you could still carry a firearm in

public or open carry a firearm in public. the idea that you have multi people for who have guns in a situation of violence, the odds that others get hit goes up. we all want to think in a situation that if i were the one with the gun a would -- say in buffalo, for example, if there was someone else in the store with a gun, would have made a difference? i am skeptical of this idea, especially when you consider the ar-15 and how fast the death happens with someone pulls the trigger on a gun like that. i do not know if another person, another black person with a gun, could've stopped that level of violence. >> look, it is really true. i am not a subscriber to a good guy with a gun siri. even the police, in new york city, the police came to the empire state building because someone was shooting and then they shot innocent bystanders by accident when they missed. then i thought, maybe no one should get the guns, no one should have them. that is not really what i

believe. i did think it. thank you so much for being here. don't forget, you can get your daily dose of enlightening arm acute articles at msnbc daily and a feature at msnbc dot com. you can find these from people you trust like me and us on. you get a fresh take every day. -- scan the qr code on your screen right now to subscribe to the newsletter for free. coming up, big news for parents of young kids who have been waiting for months now to get their kids vaccinated. we will be right back. k. 10 to 50 projects going at any given time. i absolutely have to be sharp. let me tell ya, i was struggling with my memory. it was going downhill. my friend recommended that i try prevagen and over time, it made a very significant difference in my memory and in my cognitive ability. i started to feel a much better sense of well-being.

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celebrating juneteenth and one way to do that is celebrating black art. the fine form vest -- don't festival in new york isn't programming that amplifies black voices. there is a premiere of deeply emotional films of topics like reparations, with icons like tyler perry and for. l a celebration of black films that have withstood the test of

time like east by you, the best film in 1997 after its initial release. the cast of the critically acclaimed drama reunited for a panel conversation at the film festival in honor of the film's 20th anniversary. it makes me feel old. that is okay. joining me now is the moderator of that panel, some director taylor. thank you so much for being here today. >> thank you so much for having me. >> this movie was made in 1997 by a black woman and that is significant in of itself for now and back then. as he spoke to the phone talk to another members of the cast, what did you see as the impact looking back of eaves by you, 20 years later. >> there are so many things about the film that makes it an impactful film. this was in 1997 and today.

this story is about a wealthy black family in louisiana in 1962. when you are seeing in this story is a story about people who love each other. we see narratives that take place in the 60s and the struggle for civil rights. we have a black family and this little girl who learns these secrets of her family. there is a lot of cultural, historical, and racial significance of eve's bayou. >> in a lot of ways, i am around the same age as smollett. you talked about how you were a young girl watching this movie and seen the movie through her eyes. she's a narrator. we are watching the movie through her perspective. speak to how this impacted her you as a young girl, seeing another young black girl in a

story that we really had not seen before. >> it looked like my family, really. i am from the south. i'm from earth carolina. to see a family that looked like mine. a little girl on television and film who looked like me was important. as i got older, knowing and finding out that a black woman made this movie, especially at a time when there were very few black women making movies at that level. this was her first feature film. casey lemons, what she has done creatively, it is a very inspiring to black women like myself. it is amazing to have that conversation with them. it is like a full circle moment to have talked to them, and a scenic journey after 25 years. it is great. >> i think back to the movie. i am ready for a rewatch.

certainly, the impacts could be felt now. in terms of the moment we are in now in hollywood, are you thinking that we are in a black renaissance in terms of black creators? i feel like there is such a boom right now in black filmmakers, black artists, creative directors, who are making their own stuff. >> absolutely! i think the pandemic has given us so many people freedom to create, and not necessarily use a traditional studio, hollywood systems to release their work. i think it is an amazing time to be able to create what you want. there are several things that have happened over the years. there's things like black panther, and other things that have impacted who we are today and where we are today to be able to create more films about a black people and black families and black women. i think it is a great time.

>> it is great to watch. i love all kinds of our. i love all of it. thank you for being with us. please stay safe. i am as early. not it does it for me. more news is coming up on msnbc. msnbc. this is the katie phang show live from washington, d.c.. we have a lot of news to cover. we have questions to answer. let's get started. donald trump is viewing more lies and showing no remorse and his first on camera remarks since the start of the january 6th hearings. george is going to weigh in and the bombshell takeaways from thursday's hearing. plus, more than a year after he called on supporters to march on the capitol, is trump inciting more violence against democrats? we will play his words and get reactions from michigan congresswoman. later, for laura is the only state in the nation to skip reordering vaccines for