>> it is great to watch. i love all kinds of our. i love all of it. thank you for being with us. please stay safe. i am as early. not it does it for me. more news is coming up on msnbc. msnbc. this is the katie phang show live from washington, d.c.. we have a lot of news to cover. we have questions to answer. let's get started. donald trump is viewing more lies and showing no remorse and his first on camera remarks since the start of the january 6th hearings. george is going to weigh in and the bombshell takeaways from thursday's hearing. plus, more than a year after he called on supporters to march on the capitol, is trump inciting more violence against democrats? we will play his words and get reactions from michigan congresswoman. later, for laura is the only state in the nation to skip reordering vaccines for kids

under five. is desantis more interested in catching political points then protecting children's whole? all of this coming up and more. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> a good saturday morning to you. i am katie fang. with just three hearings province and it's this far, it feels like we have so much to digest, including shocking testimony and surprising new evidence showing how close our democracy came to a constitutional crisis on january 6th. the committee has two more hearings coming up next week. we have allie raffa, live on capitol hill for a closer look. ali? >> katie, since the january 6th committee started these public hearings that more than a week ago, we have learned so much more about what a former president that trump knew about it before, during, and after the attack on the capitol on

january 6th. the committee is trying to connect the dots between the continued to push about the big lie and the violence that we saw the capitol that day. we use the testimony of his own family members, former members of his own inner circle, to tell the story for this committee. we learned that the big lie was born on election night when fox news was the first network to call the state of arizona for joe biden. trump being told by members of his inner circle, family members, his attorney general, this was repeatedly, that the numbers did not add up. there was no evidence about widespread fraud that would've changed the results of the election. despite, that trump pushed the big lie anyway. he raked in millions of dollars of fundraising off of it. the committee also revealing that -- how former president trump pressured his a former vice president publicly and privately to unilaterally change the results of the election when he was overseeing the joint session of congress on january six. the committee is saying that,

what we did not know before is, pence was really in danger of his life coming less than 50 feet of rioters. the committee says that they were there with the sole intention of finding him and killing him. the committee also telling us that former trump lawyer, john eastman, acknowledge that what he was calling for, calling for pence to overturn the results in a january 6th it was unconstitutional and illegal. listen to part of the testimony that we heard during this last hearing on thursday, katie. >> did john eastman ever admit in front of the president that his proposal will violate -- ? >> i believe he did on the fourth. >> two hearings are scheduled for next week. the one on tuesday is going to focus on the pressure campaign by trump on the state election officials.

we expect to hear from the secretary of state, a brad raffensperger, during that hearing, and katie. >> thanks to allie raffa on capitol hill. former president donald trump spoke to the faith and freedom coalition in nashville on friday. making his first on camera camera cameras on camera -- his first on camera comments about the january 6th since they began their on live coverage. he talked about what he must do in the future. >> the january 6th members are having their lives being destroyed and being treated worse than terrorist and murders despite and being charged with a parading through the capitol. most people should not be treated the way that they are being treated. if i become a president some day, if i decide to do it, i will be looking at them a very seriously for pardons. very, very seriously.

[applause]. >> he went on to call january 6th a protest that got out of hand. he claims that he never told pence to decide the election just as the states to reconsider their electors. today, i'm glad to welcome george conway as being the guest onset. he is an attorney and a contributing columnist for the washington post. you just heard some of his speech from yesterday. it is the same nastiness, overwhelming a toxicity. even after we have seen some powerful evidence from these testimonies of the 16 hearings. why is that? nothing has changed. >> someone should tell him that he has the wrote my right to remain silent and anything he says can and will be used against him in a court of law. just let him keep talking. he is still admitting that he put pressure on mike pence to do something that was illegal. frankly, although he is not president, if he was president he would be doing what he did a few years ago like a dangling

pardons to people. >> he talks about how when he becomes president he might get pardons. >> he is not president. i do not think he will get elected president again. it is a witness tampering, a little bit. >> he is dangling the opportunity for people to not cooperate, not testified, to be able to get a pardon. >> it kills me. he is doing this in front of the faith, and freedom conference. the guy who paid $130,000 to end democracy is at the faith an freedom conference getting a standing ovation. i cannot take it. >> let's talk about his intent. we know that john eastman told him that the plan to overturn the election was illegal. we saw the testimony. we heard it. i want to talk about intent because there is a difference between trump, what he was told

and what he understood. we are going to take a quick listen to what's at the attorney had to say about that. >> there's a difference between what trump was told and what the department of justice can prove that he knew. let me give an example. if you told me your favorite of flavor of ice cream was vanilla, and people witnessed this conversation. we can prove that you told me that. we can assume that you understand that because it is not complicated. if you spent the next week telling me about quantum mechanics and quantum physics, we would have proof that you told me that. you would not have proof that i understood it. >> george, what do you make about that small but significant difference? how does this play out in any a prosecution of donald trump? >> is that is his defense. his defense is going to be that i believe that i won the election. i believe there was fraud in these states. i believe that the vice president had the power to reject electors or send it back to the states. the problem that he has, and a certain point, when does

willful blindness kicks in? is it quantum mechanics? he was told very explicitly in terms of facts and law. facts being what happened on the ground in various states, he was told by the attorney general of the united states. some of these claims were bullshit. he was told again and again, there is no evidence for this, no evidence for that. this was by multiple people. this is not quantum mechanics. this is just basic facts about whether the votes exist or not. nobody was convinced about the lost part of it. no one was convinced -- eastman was not convinced about his own theory. he was hoping that the courts would not decide the issue. he says if anything gets decided, he would lose. it is not quantum mechanics -- we go seven to, and then i know. losing is losing.

he basically -- trump was being told by people that this is a bad theory. he was told by the vice president of the united states who said, i talk to all of this, i did this research, he was told repeatedly. it is not quantum mechanics. he understood but did not care. barr made that point with respect to the facts when he said he had no interest in the fact. barr testified that, no matter what it was, trump never showed an interest in the actual facts. richard donahue, with regard to the facts, he said that trump would throw out a theory, he thought they would shoot it down, and he would come up with another theory. this is a very good way of proving criminal intent. they are two independent ways of doing it. you can show that he was told repeatedly that the facts did not bear out his claims of fraud. we lost 60 lawsuits. then it comes to january 6th

and he's trying to get pence to not count of the votes. he was told that law was not in his favor. my mind goes to criminal intent. we are not getting to the point of telling raffensperger 11,700 votes. we are not getting to the fact that he sat watching tv for three hours gleefully while the mob out there was ransacking the capitol. there are so many ways to get at criminal intent here. they are all reinforcing. i am a little more optimistic. >> i'm going to throw something back at you. you wrote an op-ed for the washington post calling about the implication of the 25th of men and. you can pull a president out of office with a non fit to serve anymore. do you think trump did not have the mental fitness? he didn't have the requisite intend to overturn this election? >> no. what i'm saying is that he was a narcissistic a sociopath who

is a pathological liar. not that he is not corpus amended this, not that he cannot understand things that are told to him. he is capable of understanding things that are told him where he lacks a moral conscious and lacks any sense of duty and cannot carry out his own. >> last question. it's ginni thomas going to show up yes or no? >> i don't know. >> come on, you know. >> she is told -- i do not know. >> come on. just bet. put money on that. >> i'm not going to put money on that. >> i'm putting money that she will not show up. she is not showing up. you come back. >> all right, we will see if you are right. what do i get if you are wrong? >> i will give you a quirky. >> i am absolutely coming back. >> thank you to george conway. we are going to shift gears and go to the war in ukraine. russian state media is releasing footage yesterday of two u.s. veterans who went

missing while fighting in ukraine. they are believed to be in russian captivity. the hmong they are among thousands that have traveled to join the fight overseas. this comes as russian president vladimir putin announces the u.s. as a feeding world power and says that his country will overcome the sanctions that have been imposed. for the latest out of ukraine, we turn to alison barber who is in kyiv. >> hey, katie. the state department has said that they are aware of reports that two americans were captured by russian forces. they say they are unconfirmed reports. they are in contact with ukrainian authorities. the international red cross as well as the families of those two men, alex, and wendy. both of them were residents of alabama. interestingly, the state department has not had any contact from the russian federation about this. this is in part because they have not seen concrete evidence from russian forces that the men are in their captivity. at the same time, the state

department says that they are aware of a third american citizen who came to ukraine to join the fight here and has gone missing in recent weeks. they have not confirmed the identity of that third individual. obviously, for the families, this is incredibly desperate, concerning time. our colleague had spoken to the families of the two men said to be in captivity right now, alex and andy, their families say that they have not heard from them since last week. meanwhile, fighting in the east continues to be intense fighting with officials saying that they need more weapons, more people on that front. over 500 people right now are trapped in the basement of a chemical plant in severodonetsk. i among them, according to officials, are 38 children, katie. >> our thanks to alison barber. now on to the economy. americans continue to feel the effects of sky-high -- to grocery staples.

the federal reserve is joining for the interest rate hike. president biden says that a recession is not inevitable. over 70% of americans do not approve of how he is tackling inflation. this morning, jessie is live in cleveland with the latest, jessie. >> good morning, katie. we are at a grocery store here in the cleveland ohio area. it is a regional chain. we are talking to their team about what they have seen from their customers, especially over the last month or two. the chain tells us specifically, we are moving away from a seafood. this is looked at as a luxury food item. they are moving from beef to chicken or pork. people, across the board, they are choosing the generic and brand. instead of getting their favorite cereal, favorite soda, or maybe their favorite type of frozen meal, they are going to a generic item instead of taking the name brand.

the brand loyalty is disappearing. we have people who are making fewer trips. this is a place where multiple inflation pressures can be involved. it is not just going to the grocery store, it is getting here. people are driving here. gas prices are off of all-time record highs. but they are seeing is that customers are making fewer trips. they are buying fewer items. this is where a lot of pressures are converging across the board back to you. . we have a representative debbie who is joining us next. we are going to get her reaction to trump's speech last night. we are looking at the man who became the most anti-backs governor in the country. ron desantis refuses to place a order of covid-19 vaccines for young kids. he claims to be totally against it. how many children in florida will suffer as a consequence. this is coming up later in the hour. hour stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it.

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of our help. we are going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. >> we all know what happened, soon, after those remarks on january 6th, 2021. violence broke out as an angry mob of trump supporters with baseball bats, pepper spray, another weapons force their way inside the capitol building. five capitol police officers died as a result of the riot. trump now risks possible criminal exposure over allegations that he incited the mob. you would think, after all of, that the former president would have learned his lesson. maybe he would lay low, under the radar. apparently not. this here is what he said last night during a speech in nashville. >> the entire republican party needs to get tough and take the

radical left crusade against our culture had a. these people are at war with western civilization. it is no longer enough for conservatives to point out the extremism of the left. we have to do something about it. >> joining me now is congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan. it is always a pleasure to have you with us. after everything that has happened, trump, yesterday, still called on supporters to do something about the extremism of the left. is trump continuing to fill violence in against democrats? >> i think it is very clear that he is going across the country and trying to incite people. he does have an ability to stir people up. i think the committee, and the justice department, are doing a very meticulous and thorough investigation. i have been the target of some of that venom and rhetoric of donald trump. i know what the consequences

were after he did it with me. i had met outside of my home with assault weapons. he knows there are going to be consequences from his language. actually, what upset me more about his speech last night was his continued attack on his former vice president, for doing the right thing for this country. that actually bothered me more last night than this does. i'm used to it. the other calling of his vice president week, and saying he should not have done when he didn't, when we all saw the facts, i think that is very disturbing. >> congresswoman, putting aside the fact that trump often trades in the currency of ault right reality, though, the fact you said we are used to it. it kind of, then, suggests that something has to be done. accountability has to be achieved so, maybe, we don't become used to it. people should not think it is okay to see what happened on january 6th. do you think, that's, fire where you have seen, it is a

testimony that will come out that the 16 committee will continue to do a job that will reach -- >> okay, i think we are at a very tricky time in our country. i think we are divided by fear and hatred. i think that the committee has been very meticulous and thorough. they have gone through more than 140,000 documents. they are trying to present the facts to the american people. i think that the american people cannot abdicate their responsibility for what is happening in our country. if they care about democracy, we cannot take for granted those freedoms that we have. freedom of speech, freedom of religion, due process. they need to be paying attention. elections have consequences. they need to hold their public officials, be it a republican or democrat, accountable. when they think they cross the line, you should not be supporting them. you have to stand up and be

heard. i hope the january 6th hearings are giving people facts that they can believe. you know there are people who are trying to have people not believe the facts. we know there are people deliberately sending out misinformation. they think this is all being made up. by the way, last night speech was a real, and color, speech. the american country heard it. we heard the president, again, attack his vice president. he said he did not have the courage to do what he should have done, steal the election. that is what you need to be paying attention to. >> exactly, the mission by donald trump that he was pressuring his vice president to break the law and do something illegal. here is the inherent problem, though, congresswoman. a recent poll showed 72% of republicans do not believe that president biden, legitimately, won the election. it seems that by embracing trump's election lies, they have become a part of a winning formula. the washington post analysis found that more than 100 gop

primary winners are backing those false fraud claims we heard trump talk about, again last night. in your home state of michigan, we talked about it last weekend, who has been charged with four misdemeanors, he is still, apparently, the republican front runner, ryan, kelly even after being arrested. we are seeing that the michigan party is a circus in crazy. are these live paddlers capitalizing on the chaos? >> yes, they are. i believe that people have got to pay attention to this. that arrest, i don't know why they did the arrest that day. i did not mind the question, but without fail, increase the popularity of kelly and the crew in the race. i tell you, this is my favorite story to tell people. they need a reality check about what is happening in our country. i am in belleville, michigan. one of the greatest. health workers come up and say, can we talk to you? we have a long talk about what is going on in the country. joe biden, donald trump, civil,

really, at the end of it, they do not like the way donald trump talks. they ended it, a 15 minute conversation, and still think donald trump won the election. these are two guys who are working in plants. they are my constituents and i love them. that is what is happening in this country. we need to understand that we have to try and tell the truth. people need to pay attention. we should not be screaming at our dining room tables. we need to say to people, we'd love our country, and we need to protect it. we have to wake up. the facts are there. this election was not stolen. do not believe the lies. >> congresswoman, debbie dingell, i am always grateful to have you here. you all was cut to the chase. the reality is, people need to listen to the facts, and the evidence. i am still a little pessimistic. i am not quite sure if the uaw people that you spoke to, that are great constituents of yours, are they really listening to what is happening. if they are not, we may not get the democracy that we deserve.

thank you for being here this morning congresswoman, i appreciate it. >> thank you katie, our job is to talk to them so that we can help them understand what is happening. we cannot abandon it. we have to fight for our country. >> and that is what you are doing. that is why i am grateful that you take the time to meet with their constituents. especially in michigan to make sure they understand the difference between what is being said and the reality. >> thank you. >> and, if you were too busy to watch this week's hearings, you are in luck. we are re-airing wendy's herring tonight at 6 pm eastern. thursday's hearing is being re-aired tomorrow at 1 pm. right here, on msnbc. coming up, did donald trump hand out a death sentence to his former vice president, mike pence? that is what's trump's own meese thanks. my interview with mary trump, coming up next. at the magical everly estate, landscaper larry and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending...

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power? in her book, too much in a runoff, mary trump wrote that, if your uncle can profit off of someone that he would facilitate it. it is a thought more alarming now given the revelations that have come in from the january 6th hearings. the committee says that trump was ready to throw his own vice president to the rioters who were calling for his lynching. on my peacock show, i had the opportunity to speak with mary. this is what she had to say about what the committee has thus uncovered. >> the most important thing about this hearings is how incredibly damning the case is that the committee members are laying out. it is inescapable that crimes were committed. it is inescapable that the man in the oval office incited this violent insurrection against his own government. donald trump is directly responsible for all of this. i think we need to be very blunt about what happened. he was not just stirring up his

insurrection to create chaos. he handed down a death sentence to mike pence. i believe that nothing short of criminal indictment will be satisfactory enough. we need to make sure that everyone involved in this is held accountable and that people like donald are never allowed to run for office again in this country. >> you mentioned that you believe that donald trump handed down a death sentence for pence. this goes with a quote from your book about your uncle. if he can profit in any way from your death, he will facilitate it and then ignore the fact that you died. listening especially to what came out during the last public hearing during the january six committee, mary, were you thinking about that with regard to mike pence? i have to tell you that i thought a lot of things, none of which is flattering about your uncle, but i never thought he would go to that point where

he would casually, if not intentionally, come to want to generate or create the death of a person. are you surprised about what you've been listening to? >> i wish i could say i was, but i am not. as soon as mike pence made it clear to donald that he was not going to cross that line, donald had very few options left. first of all, he was probably shocked beyond comprehension that someone as a week and this -- would defy him in the end. secondly, what else was he going to do? he knew that the schemes that john eastman cooked up would not fly without pence's cooperation. he needed an excuse to do something absolutely radical like call for martial law. the death of his a vice president would have fulfilled

that for him. it was purely a means to an end. one of the things that was a shocking about yesterday's hearing, in particular, was how people who had been around donald for years had not understood the depths that he would a sink to or the lengths that he would go to to get his way. >> our thanks always to mary trump. you can catch the entire interview on the katie phang show on the msnbc hub on peacock. coming up here, we are continuing to learn and shocking details about the proud boys intentions on january six. how the extremist group is continuing to grow since that day. we are going to talk next about someone who has studied these groups for years and why the threats may become even more real. real

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it's. ,. apparently on that same hit list. the fbi has classified the proud boys as an extremist group with ties to white nationalism. more than 40 of them have now been indicted with connection on the united states capitol's attack, including on charges of seditious conspiracy. the panel has been trying to

show just how much influence donald trump have over the group. listen to this exhibit. [noise] >> the proud boys say stand back and stand by. >> you say that first increase, the proud boys, after the stand that stand by comment? >> mitchell, i would say trouble, probably. >> the number tripled. a high-ranking member of the proud boys telling the january six committee that people, basically, felt emboldened sue join after those comments from trump. we are still seeing the impact. the new york times reporting that the proud boys have now in filtrate of the leadership ranks of the miami dade republican party. can other extremist groups feeling emboldened to? just last, week the police detained white nationalist groups associates, from the patriot, group on conspiracy to right at a pride celebration. for more on all of this, we are joined by the chief of staff and culture at the southern poverty law center, alicia

threats. she testified to congress, right after the capitol attack, about far right extremists. alicia, let's get back to the basics please. take us inside the proud boys. what do they believe? and why are they so darn dangerous? and one with some one beat you are on to join this kind of group. >> warning katie, thank you so much for having me on. since first appearing on the scene in 2016, we have been tracking the proud boys and they're increasingly, alarmingly, violent tactics. let's be clear, proud boys are an authoritarian, ultranationalist, violent, group. since their founding, they have been committed to political violence. to any perceived threat they see from the left. violence, and intimidation, are their calling card. since january 6th the group has moved to a more local level of activism. they have always been at the local level as well, to be

clear. they have a history of traveling around the country to places like oregon, where they lead siege on the community of law enforcement, while they stood back and stood by as they engaged in this violence. they have engaged in anti-masking, and anti vax campaigns. anti vaccine protests. -- and reproductive justice, and access to abortions. demonstrations, and, just this past week, during children story our, they celebrated a pride event in california. they are always noted by their violence and intimidation. they believe in, what do they call it? i am sorry. they believe, and kind of, intimidating the others and getting the other side to engage in violence so they can, then, blame them for their violent habits.

2021 was probably their busiest year, yet. southern harvey lost center track them at over 100 events. they have 72 chapters across the nation. that is up from 46. as was mentioned in testimony last week, they have grown, and they have been and power. other groups will continue unless, and until, we hold them responsible. >> so, lecia, i'm glad you are mentioning that recent report. your organization, the southern poverty law center, its recent report says the active proud boys chapters dropped. not dropped, jumped. from 43, two 72 in 2021. what is explaining the rapid increase? do you, actually, in -- grow in light of the capitol? >> let's be clear, they have not diminished, at all, since january six. they have in fact, grown. as we saw and heard in the

testimony. they have been growing, ever since former president trump first gave them a shout out in terms of the aftermath of the 2017 violent, united the, right rally that killed heather. he characterize them as fine people. fast forward to 2020. the presidential debate, where we just heard a clip where he told them to stand back and stand by, they did just that. to be clear, they served as a vanguard and encourage other rioters to engage in violent extremism in the attack at the capitol. they have not stopped at all. as i mentioned, they are engaging in more local level destructions. as was also mentioned, there is a wing of the proud boys that are intent in taking over political institutions, in particular, the republican party. -- the --

we have seen that in nevada, and also, in oregon. they are not backing down. and again, if we do not hold these groups responsible, or accountable, in real terms, they will continue to grow. we saw this empowerment happen for over the entire trump administration. it has not stopped yet. >> well, lecia brooks from the southern poverty law center. we would love to have you back. we would love to find out if your research proves that, perhaps, it will get better. that is the optimism that, perhaps, we will have. thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you katie. >> coming up, we are putting politics ahead of public health. we are not wrong desantis. he is affirmatively against vaccines for children under five. prompting his decision to not order in bulk for his state. is that a bad color good strategy? we will discuss after the

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across the country as covid vaccines for children under five will be available in the next two weeks, according to the white house. >> if we can get it before the next school year, that would be the best, i think. >> i do trust that the vaccines are effective, overall, in terms of keeping people out of hospitals, or preventing serious illness. i will get my daughter, who is, for vaccinated. >> i know how relieved i felt when i was able to get my daughter vaccinated. for parents, in one of the biggest states in the u.s., things are not so simple. politics seem to be getting in the way. once again, florida governor, ron desantis, is trying to make florida first by being the only country in the governor. to not order vaccines for his state. >> to do an emergency use for a six month old or one year old, simply, to placate anxiety, that is not the standard when you are doing this. >> to be clear, parents will

still be able to get the vaccines. they will have to rely on their doctors offices to get them. i am glad to welcome, as it is always my honor to have as my guests, leonard pits. leonard, thank you for being here. you know florida as well as i do. smart political move or really bad strategy to use little kids as pawns to advance a political strategy? >> it is sad to say, but it is probably, given the people he is trying to do outreach to, maybe a small political move. yes, i know. terrible human move. human and politically smart, or not always in the same lane. i think we have reached a time in this country where the, quote unquote, smart political move is to do the performative, and take the performative stance, where you are always against whatever the federal government, particularly one represented by democrats, is

trying to do or offer. all advice, all experts, all science, all whatever, it is suspect. you have to remember, we are talking about the same rhonda santas who we rated a couple of high school kids for wearing masks at one of his photo ops. so, there is no bottom and there is no thing that he will not do with regard to expressing his contempt. >> they also have a florida surgeon general who believes in demons for. desantis is a leader, meet, or scarier version of donald trump. there have been rumblings about him, maybe, some donors and maybe a 2024 run. and desantis, trump primary, who will win that? >> i believe in the og. the original. the original to believe in, is not the best word to use their.

i am more terrified by the og. i believe the og would have the advantage there. i believe desantis would be a smarter trump, a trump without the crippling effects of the media mess that trump has. i think, for the country, desantis could, possibly, be more frightening. >> desantis is also trump without all the baggage, though. >> again, the baggage has proven not to be a liability, with the people he is trying to reach. remember, it was weeks before the initial election, what would have been a killing stroke for any other politician, i'm talking about the access hollywood tape, with the sexual assault, in the confessions on tape, that would have killed any other politician. in the normal rules, and the normal america, and the normal universe, that would have been an, game over. it did not affect him. that should have told you something. that should have told us all

something. >> he room earned the moniker he got. i am going to read a part of your column that you just, it recently, where you addressed trump supporters directly. it was an open letter to trump supporters. you said, don't you feel kind of stupid right now? doesn't the revelation that it was all a calm leave you feeling like a sucker? doesn't simple human pride have you smarting, at least, a little bit? >> letter, and an insurrection is one thing. crafting someone out of their cash, though, i find that to be something totally different. leonard, do you think this revelation that has come out about the 250 million dollar graft that donald trump did, out of his supporters, do you think it is enough to move the needle to make them care enough to not vote for him? >> no. i wish it were. i really wish that it were. i believe that trump is not a person for them, so much as a belief. he is a belief system. i think that, and i mentioned

that in this column, they have done studies and research that showed that one people are deeply invested in our belief, this is a 40 year body of research, when people are deeply invested in a belief, correcting them does not change their beliefs. it causes them to double down. so, given that, it is hard for me, i think there will be a few, you will pick off a few men say wait a minute, but most of the people who believe in trump are not going to be reachable by what would ordinarily be logical considerations. >> maybe they will run out of money. >> we can hope that. having given 250 million already, how much more does he need? if someone else put it on another network, with that money, he could have bought every lawyer in america for a few hours. >> he doesn't pay the bill.

>> and you are not going to pay the bills to begin with. >> leonard pitts,. thank you so much for being on side, i appreciate it. >> you are watching the katie phang show. we will be right back. ight back. you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ [peaceful music plays] [soft cymbal crash] welcome to your world. your why. what drives you?

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that is tonight at 10 pm eastern, on msnbc. it is streaming now on peacock. thanks for watching the katie phang show. be sure to watch us anytime on twitter, facebook, instagram, or tiktok. the handle -- i will be back tomorrow morning at 7 am eastern. michael steele, my friend, is in for velshi next. he falsely told the american people that the election was not legitimate. >> i made it clear that i did not agree with the idea of saying that the election was stolen and put it out the stuff that i told the president -- he has grown detached from reality. >> in your judgment, what were the chances of president trump winning the election? >> after that point? >> yes. >> none. >> it is on ambiguous that the vice president does not have the authority to reject