corners. and believing whatever supports their. side kimberly akins -- thank you for -- [inaudible] [inaudible [inaudible]

-- i responded to it. --

what do you hope to get across here? >> you have had everything said about you. what do you wish people knew? >> savannah, as silly as it is to say, this out loud, my goal, the only thing i can hope for at this point is that i want people to see me as a human being. >> tonight, we talk with amber heard, the woman at the center of one of the most sensational media spectacles in recent memory. >> this is a case about the impact of amber heard's words on johnny depp. >> for six weeks, millions of viewers around the world were glued to their screens, hanging

on every moment of this courtroom slugfests between hollywood stars. >> the next move was just a, bang, she clocked me in the jaw. >> he just hit me over and over again, and i thought, this is how i die. >> the trial made public a volatile mess marriage, with final moments commentate. >> i was hitting you, i was not punching you. babe, you are not punched. >> for some people, they would just frankly disgusted by the whole thing and don't have much sympathy for either one of you. can you understand that? >> absolutely, i can understand that. i would not blame the average person for looking at this and how it has been covered, and not think that it is hollywood brats at their worst. but what people don't understand, it's actually so

much bigger than that. this is not only about our first amendment right to speak. >> here's the thing about the first amendment, it protects free speech, it does not protect lies that amount to defamation. that was the issue in the case. >> yes, exactly. free speech does not protect you if you go into a crowded theater and you scream, fire. we get the concept of free speech from the greeks, but my understanding of what that means is not just the freedom to speak, it's a freedom to speak truth to power. >> but truth is the word. that was the issue. >> that is all i spoke. >> how did it all come to this? >> so you down the road. [applause] >> amber laura heard grew up outside austin, texas, with big dreams of hollywood start-up. after moving to los angeles at

the age of 17, she booked a string of tv and movie roles. and 2009, she got a call that would change your life. it was from superstar johnny depp. >> here -- >> who wanted to costar with her in a film called the rum diary. he was 46. she was half his age, 23. >> he's such a pleasure to work with. he is even better than i could have imagined, which is saying something. >> after several years of dating, the couple got engaged. >> is that an engagement ring? does that mean your engaged? >> what would you consider it? >> i think you are engaged. congratulations. >> thank you. she is a wonderful girl and a very good for me. >> but the marriage did not last long. in may 2016, amber went to court, asking the judge for a restraining order against their husband, alleging domestic

abuse. months later, amber dropped the restraining order and they divorced. it seemed like the depth heard saga might end there. >> what -- >> in 2018, she landed her biggest role yet in aquaman. that's a mere, as the me too movement was in full swing, she wrote this now infamous op-ed for the washington post. it included a key line, i became a public figure representing domestic abuse. >> you said may times, you just want to go on with your life? when you wrote the op-ed, it raced all of this again, why did you do that if you want it to just go on and put this past you? >> the up and it was not about my relationship with johnny. >> but it alluded to him? it's unmistakable. >> you know, what the op-ed was about me loaning my voice to

bigger cultural conversation that we were having at the time. it was bow reform, about legislative reforms and renewing the violence against women act. >> did you worry, gosh, i would love to be the person weighing in on these cultural issues but that will stir this all up again? >> that is a great question and one that i wish was considered more seriously because it is important. >> when you wrote the op-ed, it was the height of metoo, legions of powerful men being canceled, losing their jobs. did you want that to happen to johnny depp? >> of course not. it wasn't about him. >> johnny depp disagreed and filed a 50 million dollar defamation lawsuit against her. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> she countersued, all which led to the recent showdown in court. >> i don't have to remind you that you have been found liable for defamation against johnny

depp. having been found liable, are you nervous, as we are here today about what you can say now? >> of course. i took for granted while i seemed was my right to speak, not just about what i lived through but what i knew. >> do you feel like you could be sued again by him for defamation? >> i am terrified, which is why i guess the defamation lawsuit is meant to do. it's meant to take your voice. >> when we come back, inside the allegations. >> she is a need for conflict. she has a need for violence. >> the depp team argued that you were the buzzer, that you instigated physical violence. >> i never had to instigate it, i responded to it. as i testified, if it meant the difference between a broken

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waiting for a glimpse of them, these two movie actors. their cars pulling up not to a red carpet but a virginia courthouse. >> what did you see out the window of that car? >> every single day i passed, city blocks lined of people holding signs saying, things i could not repeat on television. they had to establish barricades to protect me so that i could drive into a protected entrance of the courthouse. every single day, that is how i walked into the court. >> there were more people waiting for her inside, back in the courtroom and watching from home. amber's lawyers fought to keep tv cameras out but lost. >> i didn't want this to be a thing. i didn't want it to be a trial. i didn't want it to be part of the public record, but when someone sees you, you don't have a choice. >> with the burden of proof on him, johnny depp made his case

for us to prove defamation, his lawyers needed to prove that amber's claims of abuse were false and had her's career. >> mr. depp, had you ever physically assaulted amber heard? >> no. >> have you ever sexually salted misheard? >> no, certainly not. >> what have you lost as a result of miss heard making these allegations against you? >> nothing less than everything. >> depp said there was an abuser in the courtroom, but it wasn't him, it was amber. >> she has a need for conflict. she has a need for violence. it erupt out of nowhere. >> depp described a particularly violent fight that they had when he was filming in australia. he said that amber threw a vodka bottle at him. >> and it made contact and shattered everywhere. and then i looked down and

realized that the tip of my finger had been severed >>. depths attorney show the jury photos of the injuries, they said amber hand inflicted on deaf. and as members of his security staff to tell the jury what they'd seen. >> i heard and saw a closed fist contact mr. depp on the left side of this face. >> and whose fist was that? >> that was miss heard's fist, amber heard's faced. >> the depp team argue that you were the abuser, that you instigated physical violence. did you? >> i never had to instigate it, i responded to it. when you are living in violence and it becomes normal, as i testified to, you have to adapt, you adopt strategies to cope with it. if it meant, as i testified to, if it meant the difference

between a broken nose or a sore cheek, i would do it. >> what about the witnesses who said they have seen you instigate physical violence? they all come in and lie in court? >> i'm less interested in sitting here, you know, relitigating it with you. i'm not here to call any of his witnesses any names, i'm not here to do that. i'm here to talk about it from what it felt like for me as a person, who sat there. >> there was one more voice steps legal team wanted the jury to hear, amber's. they had audio recordings of the couple talking about how amber sometimes got physical. >> don't smack my ear again. cause it resounds in my cranium. would you like that? >> i love. you >> have? >> i love you, i'm sorry. >> and another recording, amber

was less apologetic. >> i'm sorry i hit you like this, but i did not punch you. i did not deck you. i was hitting you. >> there are tapes in which you acknowledge hitting, there are tapes in which you say i started the fight. >> i know much has been made of these audiotapes. as i testified on the stand what you would hear in those clips are not evidence of what was happening. it was evidence of a negotiation. of how to talk about that with your abuser. >> but i'm looking at a transcript that says, he says, you start physical fights and you say, i did start a physical fight. >> i did start a physical fight. >> yeah, you did. >> but he was telling me today, i never started a physical fight. here you are on tape saying, i did. >> as i testified on the stand about this, when your life is at risk for, not only will you take the blame for things that you shouldn't take the blame for, but when your in a abusive relationship, psychologically,

emotionally, and physically, you don't have the luxury of saying, hey, this is black and white. this is anything but when you're living in it. >> he says he never hit you. never. is that a lie? >> yes, it is. >> he says he's never struck any woman. his lawyers argue that trial. none of his other prior relationships, not one woman's come forward and said, he physically hit them. >> you are the only one. >> look what happened to me when i came forward. would you? >> coming up -- >> i feel so embarrassed that he could kick me to the ground in front of people. >> as you sit here and say, -- do stand by your testimony and all your accusations against johnny depp about abuse? >> of course. and i will tell my dying day. >> when dateline continues. teline continues it syncs with your favorite vc apps so you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. meta portal, make working from home work for you.

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>> the attention seemed to grow day-by-day. >> the surprises keep coming in this trial. >> before all the intense curiosity, this is not the first time that amber heard and johnny depp faced off in court. >> there was another trial

dealt with the same substantive issues, held differently by a judge instead of a jury. >> johnny depp sued the sun, a british tabloid, over an article they published describing him as a wife beater. the case went to trial to use ago in the uk. there were no cameras in court. the judge in that case found that most of amber heard's allegations of abuse were substantially true. >> johnny depp has lost his legal battle with a british tabloid. >> we prevailed, overwhelmingly. >> the jury in the u.s. trial was not allowed to hear about that judgment. amber says that by the time she got up to tell her side of the story -- >> i do. >> the core of public opinion here had already turned against her. >> after three and a half weeks, i took the stand and saw the courtroom packed full of captain jack sparrow fans who were vocal, energized and have come from all ends of the world. >> we have been here all night

long. >> i took two buses, two trains and i had to walk a half hour. >> the jury saw all of the. >> during five days on the stand, amber told her version of the toxic relationship. she said that the physical abuse began when they are first dating and continued throughout their marriage. >> i was walking out of the bedroom, he slapped me across the face. i turned to look at him and said, johnny, you hit me! you just hit me! >> i testified on the stand. i got hit for a long time before i knew how to even try to defend myself. >> amber said the abuse usually happened in private but told a story depp once hit her in a plane full of entourage. >> i thought so embarrassed that he could kick me to the ground in front of people. >> in all, she described at least 12 times one depp hit her. >> and he's punching me, punching me, a closed fist punching me. >> she said it often happened when he was drunk or on drugs. >> right now, as you sit here

today, do you stand by your testimony and your accusations against johnny depp about abuse? >> of course, and i will to my dying day. i know it happened to me. i am here as a survivor. to my dying day, i stand by every word of my testimony. >> to support her allegations, her attorneys showed photos of injuries that they said were caused by depp. one alleged beating happened in 2015, before amber appeared on the late late show with james corden. >> a makeup artist saw amber the day of the alleged incident and said that she did not see any injuries but the next day -- >> we saw discoloration here under both eyes and on the bridge of the nose. and she had one out call a split lip. >> a nurse testified that she saw amber bloody lip. >> she told you that was a result of the altercation with

mr. depp, right? >> right. >> amber sister took this stand and told a story of one fight that she said including depth hitting her, something kept a nice. >> he comes up behind me, strikes me in the back, kind of somewhere over here, he strikes me in the back. i hear and brush out, don't hit my faking sister. she smacks him, lands one, and then he grabbed amber by the hair with one hand and was whacking her repeatedly in the face with the other. >> mr. depp -- >> amber side also played its own snippets of audio. amber talking to depp about acts of violence. >> go put your cigarettes out on someone else. you have consequences for your actions. that's it. >> shut up, that us. >> a week prior, after you beat the crap out of me. >> what happened? >> then there was this video. >> did something happen?

would you this morning, i don't think so. oh, you're crazy, you're crazy. >> have you truck this whole thing this morning? >> you would agree that you are violent in that crypt, correct? >> clearly, i was having a bad time, yes. i did assault a couple of cabinets, why did not touch her. >> you poured yourself and make a point of red wine, correct? >> a mega point? >> yeah. >> [laughs] i poured myself a large class of one. >> and remember what depp said about the fight in australia when his finger was severed? >> amber denied hurting him and said on that trip, she was the real victim. >> [inaudible] >> amber went on to describe a harrowing incident of sexual abuse.

she testified that depp assaulted her with a bottle. >> but i could feel this pressure. i remember not wanting to move because i did not know if the bottle that he had inside me was broken. >> in that courtroom, i am testifying about sexual assault and domestic violence next to a jury, in front of a hole packed courtroom of people who are expressing their vocal support and disdain for me. >> amber had told her story. >> sitting here today -- >> now, she would be forced to defend it. coming up, would the jury never saw. >> there was a binder worth of notes that were taken by my doctor. her notes represented years of what was going on. what was going on.

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exposed to the world multiple times, right? >> i haven't lied about anything. >> after describing the abuse she says she suffered at the hands of johnny depp, amber heard than faced his attorney, camille vasquez. >> vázquez set out to convince jurors they couldn't trust a word that came out of amber's mouth. >> you got physical with mr. depp often, didn't you? >> i have to defend myself as best as i. could >> you couldn't control yourself could you? >> who is a real monster in this relationship, miss heard? >> depp's team argue that amber had a history of being untruthful. case in point -- >> $7 million in total was donated to -- i split it between the -- and children hospital. >> they played a clip from an interview on dutch tv, where she says she had donated her 7 million dollar divorce element to charity. but, it was revealed at trial that you haven't done so yet. do you think that raised questions, in terms of your credibility? >> i think --

look, when you say to someone, i bought a house, are you lying because you have not paid for it in full at the time? i made a pledge and that pledge is made overtime, by its nature. >> you're splitting hairs a little bit, because when you say i donated, you know that everybody thinks that you've donated it. not that you've pledged it. so, for the jury sitting there, do you think they felt like that was you getting caught in a lie? >> i don't know because so much of the -- i feel like, so much of the trial was meant to cast dispersions on who i am as a person, my credibility, call me a liar in every way you can -- >> that was the trial. it was a credibility contest. >> depp's team also painted amber as an attention seeker, saying that she wrote the 2018

op-ed to coincide with the release of aquaman. they suggested that this was a publicity stunt. a way to raise your profile, at a time when these issues were quite relevant. >> it was one of those few moments of levity and the trial, when i heard it suggested that my op-ed, in the washington post, could, potentially, boost sales for an international multi million dollar superhero franchise movie that i was starring in. it's the other way around. if anything, we're trying to get more awareness and attention on the issues within the article -- it >> wasn't a publicity stunt or a way -- >> it's the opposite. >> depths lawyers called witnesses to challenge amber's stories of abuse. one of depths friends testified about that fight on a plane, when amber says, he kicked her. >> it's your testimony that mr. depp didn't kick amber. >> i didn't see anything like that. >> to counter the photographic

evidence of embers injuries, depths lawyers showed the in -- looking unblemished after the alleged abuse. >> your nose doesn't appear to be injured in any of these pictures, does it, misheard? >> that's why i'm wearing makeup. >> amber testified that some of the photos steps lawyers brought to court were taken days, even weeks, after the alleged injuries occurred. >> when i learned that trial is it's never going to be good enough, if you have proof, then, it was a scheme, it was a hoax. if you don't have proof, it didn't happen. if you have a bruise, it's fake. if you don't have a bruise, violence clearly didn't hurt too. a few told people, then you are hysterical. if you didn't tell anyone, it didn't happen.

>> when it came to amber's most explosive testimony, the sexual assault, the epstein pointed out the allegations only came up after her divorce. in court, attorney camille vázquez pulled no punches. >> you testified you blood from your vagina as a result of the sexual assault. >> yes. >> there aren't any medical records reflecting that you sought to medical treatment for any of these injuries, are there? >> i did not seek medical treatment after australia, no. >> not for the rape? >> no. i did not want to tell anyone. >> there's no experience like cross-examined. what was that experience like for you? >> it was one of the scariest, most intimidating things for anybody. talking about sexual violence, not being believed, being called a liar, being

humiliated. >> throughout the trial, both sides fought to get additional evidence in front of the jury to bolster their claims. some of it was deemed hearsay, under the rules of evidence and declared inadmissible by the judge. >> he says one piece of evidence that you wish the jury had seen, that you could point to, you say, this would've made the difference. >> yeah. >> what is it? >> there is a binder worth of years of notes, dating back to 2011, from the beginning of my relationship, that were taken by my doctor, who i was rewarding the abuse to. >> that doctor was amber's therapist at the time. we looked at notes the doctor took during some of their sessions, which show that is far back as 2012, amber was talking about physical abuse. >> in january of that year, she told her therapist, depp hit her, threw her on the floor. eight months after that, ripped her nightgown, drew her on the

bed. in 2013, the therapist note says, he threw her against the wall and threatened to kill her. >> i am talking about what's happening to me in realtime, she was taking contemporaneous notes of what was happening. >> amber's warriors -- text messages that were excluded from trial, like this one she sent to another therapist, saying, johnny did a number on me, i thought i had a concussion. this text message she says she sent to her father after that disputed incident on the plane. she wrote, he kicked me, in front of everyone. >> i testified i was attacked on the flight, in front of people, and when i got off the plane, sent messages to people about what had happened. i'm angry because this happened, can you believe he did this, and this, and this, you know? and one of the people i reached out to was my father. >> depp's lawyers say the judges rulings were fair and adept spokesperson told us,

it's unfortunate that the defendant and her team are back to repeating, reimagining and relitigating matters that have already been decided by the court. [noise] >> amber thinks the case wasn't just decided inside the courtroom, she believes what happened outside made all the difference. >> coming up -- >> the majority of this trial was made outside of a courtroom. >> the social media storm. did it affect the verdict? >> you think the jury saw it? >> how could they not? >> when dateline continues. n dateline continues

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johnny promises total global humiliation over you. did you feel like that came true? >> i know he promised it, i testified to this, i'm not a

good victim, i get it. i'm not a likable victim. i'm not a perfect victim, i get it. i'm not a saint. i'm not asking when to like me but when i testified, i asked the jury to see me as human, and here his own words, which is his own words. promised to humiliate me. but feels as though he has. >> as the trial unfolded inside that virginia courtroom, amber heard and johnny depp were being judged in the court of public opinion. >> this johnny depp amber heard thing has been going on for a little bit now and it's gotten pretty wild. >> though both stars had their supporters on social media, there is no question that the internet decided against amber heard. >> you, this is so cringe. guilty. >> this was a sort of medieval orgy of hatred. >> michelle goldberg is in an opinion columnist for the new

york times. i >> think it was people really enjoyed joining in. that's often the case with mob behavior. i think that's essentially what this was. it was this massaging's team of behavior. >> online, people picked apart amber's every move. videos ridiculing her facial expressions. they accused her of faking a motion on the stand. >> this -- this is just a fake crying train wreck you can't look away from. >> johnny, you hit me. you hit me. >> it was really striking to me to see all of these people engaging in this trend of reenacting her testimony. >> i was walking out of the bedroom, he slapped me across the face. i >> don't think i've ever seen anything like this. >> a domestic violence trial becoming this source of national hilarity. one of >> the most infamous moments in the trial was when johnny depp suggested that she

may have deficit it on their bed. >> on my side of the bed was human fecal matter. >> amber denied it. that didn't stop the internet from branding her with the viral nickname. >> i saw what was happening to me in realtime. i don't cut what one thinks about me, or what's judgments you want to make about what happened in the privacy of my own home, with my marriage, enclosed doors. i don't presume the average person should know those things, so i don't take it personally. even someone who is sure i'm deserving of all this hate and betrayal, even if you think that i'm lying, you still couldn't tell me, look me in the eye and tell me, that on social media, there's been a fair representation. you cannot tell me that you think this is been fair. >> if ember was the villain,

then johnny depp was often portrayed as a hero. >> -- >> people online find his -- charming. >> that's hearsay, i guess. i'm learning. >> that testimony about is drinking only -- to his digital fans. >> you poured yourself a mega pint of red one, correct? >> a mega pint? >> during the six-week trial, jurors weren't sequestered. they spent nights and weekends at home, with their phones. >> i think a majority of this trial was played outside of a courtroom, unfortunately. i think the vast majority of this trial was played out on social media. i think that this trial is an example of that gone haywire, gone amok. the jury is not immune to that. you >> think the jury saw it? >> how could they not? i think even the most

well-intentioned juror, would've been impossible to avoid this. >> depp's attorneys reject the notion that social media influenced the jury in any way. they say they believe jurors follow the jury's instruction to not read about the case. >> they said social media was not the problem, amber was. >> the depth lawyer said, i'm calder testimony the performance of a lifetime. he said you were acting. would you say to that? >> says the lawyer for the man who convinced the world he had scissors four fingers. i'm the performer. i had listened to weeks of testimony insinuating -- or saying quite directly that i'm a terrible actress. i'm a bit confused how i can be both.

>> coming up, the verdict. what might the impact be? i >> worry about the very real fear others may have about coming forward. >> and what may surprise you. >> you issued a statement, i still have loved for johnny. is that still true? you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it. usually. and in it. mostly. here to meet those high standards

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depp and amber heard slugging it out in court, the case went to the jury. it's the day of the verdict, you come into the courtroom, were you feeling confident? >> that's a great question. i wish i could say yes to that. i want to say yes to you, but

it wouldn't be true. >> question, the statement has a defamatory implication about mr. depp. answer, yes. the court is adjourned. thank you. >> in the end, the jury believed johnny depp, awarding him more than $10 million in damages. amber won a single defamation claim in her countersuit and was awarded $2 million. >> there is no polite way to say it, the jury looked at the evidence you presented, they listened to your testimony and they did not believe you, they thought you were lying. >> how could -- all put it this way, how could they make a judgment, how could they not come to that conclusion. ? they had sat in those seats, and for over three weeks, there was nonstop, relentless testimony from paid employees, and towards the end of the

trial, randoms, as i say. >> you don't blame the jury? >> i don't blame them. i actually understand. he's a beloved character and people feel they know him. he's a fantastic actor, >> their job is to not be dazzled by that. >> again, how could they after listening to three and a half weeks of testimony about how i was a non credible person. not to believe a word that came out of my mouth. i'm a hysterical woman, i'm a crazy woman. i can't be trusted. over and over again. >> johnny depp was quick to celebrate his victory. in a statement that read, in part, from the very beginning, the goal of bringing this case was to reveal the truth, regardless of the outcome. adding, the jury gave me my life back. i am truly humbled. when i asked his lawyers, why do you think he won? the answer i got was, because

she never took responsibility for anything she did in the marriage. as we're sitting here, and i watch you are cross-examination, there's an answer for everything. do you feel you should've owned up to more of your own bad behavior? >> i'm glad you asked me that because you know, there is an answer for these things that you say. i said this on the stand. my -- you hear my voice in those audiotapes, it's not the voice of me now. that's not who i am now. i did it do and say horrible, regrettable things throughout my relationship. i behaved in horrible -- almost unrecognizable to myself ways. there's so much regret. >> on the first day of the trial, you issued a statement, part of the statement said, i

still have love for johnny. >> yes. >> is that still true? >> yes. >> after everything? >> absolutely. absolutely. i love him. i loved him with all my heart and i tried the best i could to make a deeply broken relationship work. and i couldn't. >> amber heard said she intends to appeal her case and she's concerned her defeat may be a setback for other women. >> i hope this hasn't, you know, had a chilling effect that, i worry it may have, on other people. i worry about that, but if i can look you in the eyes and say, i'm still here, then maybe that serves to balance out some of the very, very real fear others may have about coming

forward, or speaking out. >> how do you see your future now? do you think you will act again? >> i get to be a mom. i get to be a mom. full-time. >> one day, you may want to tell your daughter about this, or have to tell your daughter about everything that you've gone through. what would you tell her about what happened here and what this experience has meant? >> i think, no matter what, it will mean something. i did the right thing. i did everything i could to stand up for myself and the truth. i look forward to living my life and i have a long one, i hope, in front of me. i will continue to walk through this with my chin up.

>> that's all for this edition of dateline. we'll see you again next friday at ten, nine central. of course, all see you each week night for nbc nightly news. i'm lester holt, for all of us at msnbc news, goodnight. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> >> coming up on this hour -- of we're gonna break down the federal and state action with state congressman ig arnaud -- plus making sense of our precarious economic situation and what they've done to write the ship. later, ginni thomas's -- was far bigger than we had realized. we'll tell you about that. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. 's get started. tonight, we begin this hour with the senate negotiations on gun safety legislation. the question is, where do we