good morning it is sunday, june 19th. father's day. i am sam stein, filling in for ali velshi. the january six committee is pressing on with its hearings, for the next week. the committee will hold two more public hearings to present to the american public the findings of its investigation so far. in his hearings last week, the panel presented testimony about how donald trump handles associates butting heads with many members of his own administration. most notably vice president mike pence, and attorney

general bill barr. last week, that focus will shift to the effort to pressure state legislatures to unlawfully result reverse the result of the 2020 presidential election. scheduled to appear as a witness on tuesday's georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. in the early 2021, raffensperger was thrust into the spotlight with audio and phone call between him and then president trump was released. remember, during that call, trump asked raffensperger and other georgia election administration officials to find some more votes for him. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes. which is one more than we have. because we won the state. so we're gonna do to get those? i only 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. >> the call was made just four

days before the insurrection of the capital. a few weeks ago, raffensperger also appeared before a special grand jury investigating possible election interference conducted by trump, and his associates. the former president has not changed his to about the -- or the insurrection. here's what he had to say on friday during his first on camera remarks since the january six hearings began. >> as to what happened on january 6th, it was a simple protests that got out of hand. most people should not be treated the way that they have been treated. and if i become president some day, if i decide to, i will be looking at them very seriously for pardons. very very seriously. >> all right, joining me now are two of journalist's finest maniacs. i mean that honestly in the best way possible. do the wall, he's a congressional party for the gardening guardian covering the

jury was a committee. don, cheney senior affairs expert for politico. thank you for joining me on a sunday morning, we appreciate it. hugo, you open your party for months now and john eastman his scheme to pressure mike pence to alter votes. did you pick up anything new or surprising regarding that plan, during last thursday's hearing? >> i think the hearings biggest bombshell had to be the fact that he was seeking a presidential pardon from rudy giuliani, trump's staff lawyer. that was really new, we had not seen any evidence for that the problem with. seeking pardons visited reflects the -- as raskin said, it -- not only guilt but a crime. that was one revelation that came out. among other things, it was surprising that eastman was admitting to the president ahead of january six that he viewed his plan as unlawful and unconstitutional, and that rudy

giuliani was admitted to the white house lawyers that he agreed with the white house lawyers that eastman's panel was unlawful. so there was a whole bunch of new things that came out of that hearing, and i think a lot of it speaks to corrupt intent in and out of the white house. >> speaking of corrupt intent, which is a judicial term. kyle, you wrote that thursday's hearing effectively amounted to a criminal referral by the january six committee. now, whatever answer testimony did you find to be the most damning? more specifically, what do you think the department of justice and the people that were assigned to look into this matter, what do you think they took from those hearings that they could potentially use? >> well i think, actually, we have been reporting, on cue go and i, as a growing tension between the justice department in the committee. because the gio jay wants access to all of the committee transcription is not getting it. so they are saying, hey if you want to have us be looking at the serve to give us what you've got. so we know. but the bottom line is there has been a lot going on, a lot

of confusion about what is a criminal referral from the select committee. what does that look like? and when they keep telling us is that there is no such thing as an actual criminal referral. but is not even a real term. it is something we can basically -- we are saying that donald trump committed a crime in his efforts to overturn the election. we think the inspired john eastman to obstruct congress. they have said that out loud since march. with they did in these hearings has really put on display, in the clearest most effective way yet, all of the evidence that supports that thesis. whether the doj agrees with a legal theory behind that, that is the biggest question. here so they're trying to communicate to merrick arland, who says that he is, watching that they have enough evidence to potentially prosecute them in the people around him. >> hugo, let's empty a reporter no book for us. that tension between the doj and the january six committee over transcripts, primary evidence. how bad is it? has there been any back tunneling that you know of?

and is this not just going to resolve itself when they get done with the hearing, they turn over the stuff to the department, and that is that? or are there potentially a more acrimonious and to this? >> according to my sources, at least, there does appear to have been some informal conversations between councils on the committee and some of the federal prosecutors of the doj. not list because tim, heavy the chief counsel of that committee the u.s. attorney. so there has been some sort of informal discussions. this is a very -- led committee. thompson had the shots in a lot of big committees. they don't just turn over there were project, will they be doing for ten months, and handed over to doj. that has people worried that once they send the material over, they lose control over how tightly or how loosely that is led by people. they are worried about misconstruing some of the evidence they have, for example,

case in point is the january five underground parking garage meeting that the head of the proud boys and stewart rhodes, the head of the oath keepers, had. the doj thinks that's the -- and the january six committee does not seem to think that is the case. so there is already tension over the interpretation of the evidence. and the committee worries that if the evidence goes to doj, that can exacerbate. >> kyle, the flip side of that is that they are pursuing sprawling cases against insurrectionists. they are going after the proud boys. is it possible that they just want access to more evidence that could substantiate their case and strengthen it? >> it is. both they said this out loud and pretty stark terms in a letter to the committee earlier last week. and they basically, said look. they are hurting are just potential for sure prosecutors based on -- basically trump's orbit, that you might have evidence against, but existing prosecutions against proud boys and proud

boys leadership. that trial is supposed to start in august, and is now being delayed until december, in part because about the justice department is that is prejudiced created by the select committee's hearings. and how close that is to the actual trials. so clearly the tension is growing from the for the doj to say that landed in public, and even consider delaying these landmark remarks trials for months. >> all right. politicos kyle cheney and hugo lowell of the guardian. i just want to thank you guys your tremendous reporting. kyle, i am true contractually obligated to say it has been great. but you go, you have been doing great work to. even though it pains me to give a compliment to a competitor. thank you guys for your work, and keep it up. appreciate it. joining me now is democratic congresswoman madam, dean of pennsylvania. she is a member of the house judiciary and financial services committees. last year she served as a house managers during the second impeachment, not the first. my second impeachment trial of donald trump. congressman, thank you so much

for being here. we played a clip earlier of don from saying that if he gets a lot for the gun he would consider pardoning those responsible for the january six committee. so he is not apologetic, he is a defiant for what transpired as a result of his lies about the election fraud. what is your reaction to him just openly discussing the idea of pardoning these people? >> well, he is unchanged. he is open the corrupt. he is openly cynical. and avoid any moral character. he never understood his own, a but he never even read the constitution let alone was guided by it. this just shows his bankruptcy as a human being. i hope that fellow republicans notice. everything that has been spartans being revealed at the january six committee. i think it is interesting the framing that you have put to gather up against watergate and what happens then. the difference, of course, some differences between watergate.

i was a young girl at the time of watergate, followed very closely. in some ways, richard nixon's resignation pushed by republican leaders, led to an accountability. not a full accountability, button accountability. a severing of the answer that presidents taken to resignation. but you see here that republicans state around mr. trump, was on themselves, but did not come up publicly with information about his big lies, about his raising money for himself. basically, around these big lies. and about his coordination on january six. he only came forward by way of deposition. but the truth is coming out. the other difference, very importantly, is what is happening in the present and the future. many elected officials, including doug mastriano of my state who is running for governor, we'll continue to push the big lie. we'll have the chance to see the state officials around the election.

and we'll go forward and try to do it again in 2024. it is a very dangerous time. >> you say you hope republicans are watching and taking note of the evidence that has been presented. but is there any evidence that you have seen that they are listening or changing their opinions. you obviously talk to them on a daily basis. what do they say to you when you press them on what is being revealed by the january 6th hearings? >> strangely, privately, some are saying oh my goodness. i did not know that. but there was a very revealing a moment when i was impeachment manager. in court, i presented the testimony of the phone call with secretary of state brad raffensperger of georgia. and in that call of the president, to him, brad threatened him with legal viability, legal exposure. then saying, all i need is for you to find 11,780 votes.

saying it's over and over and over again. when i presented that in the senate, there was actually a couple of members who were aghast, as though they have not heard that before. even the they all have the information so they before january six. it was notable gasp. and once under even said, oh my god. he is going to be indicted for that. so i believe that at that time, some senators were not aware of that level of corruption. and i believe that to january 6th hearings are revealing its to many more republicans. >> what's the things that they did reveal, the committee revealed, was. video one of the colleagues, congressman barry loudermilk of georgia. he was caught giving a tour of the capitol on january 5th, the day before the riots. of course, with the man who ended up attending the january six rally the following day. what it has the reaction been

among members to those revelations? and other revelations that your colleagues may have had close ties to the people who stormed the capitol? >> it is shocking, but we did know some of this before. and when i want to remind viewers of, this was covid. we were not having any tours of the capital. they are just was not such a thing. you could not do, it i would not even considered. it so the day before certification of the presidential election, or mr. loudermilk to be wandering people around, they are taking pictures of exits and hallways, it is extraordinarily puzzling. but i do remember a couple of colleagues of mine saying, you know what, there was a strange tour going on yesterday. i ran into them in one of the corners, one of the underground tunnels. i think it is very damning. i don't know why anybody would have offered it to work on january the 5th. >> so you saw you heard of this in realtime, is what you are saying? >> i heard at the day after.

i think the first i heard it was in a safe room, i was among hundreds of us were put into a safe room. taken out with our gas masks on. and i remember a colleague saying, you know, i saw something yesterday that i think was really strange, somebody was offering a tour. and they didn't even know who the member was. but they noticed a tour. it was extraordinarily unusual. we had no one in our offices. i remember for january six, our chief of staff was available to come in, things were so precarious, stay back. there could be some problems in the streets. that's what i was thinking. i purposefully use only the tunnels because i didn't want to be on the ground. and so, those took place a day before. some of those people participating in the following days event, it is extremely suspect. all right, democratic congresswoman emily dina pennsylvania, thank you so much for joining us on the sunday morning. really, really appreciated. coming up, coming up as it's

juneteenth, our newest federal holiday. commemorating the last enslaved african americans in texas were informed that they had been freed. today, we're gonna be talking the reparations or the government can and should be doing. plus, the war wages on in ukraine. we have an update, 115 days since the brutal russian invasion began. right after the break, all talk to a reporter who's trying to find out why law enforcement's response to the uvalde massacre was so wrong. and why she thinks her request for police records are going unanswered. this is velshi. this is velshi i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but, no matter how healthy you feel, your immune system declines as you age increasing your risk for getting shingles. so, what can protect you?

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information regarding the police response to the deadly shooting in uvalde, texas, have gone unanswered. and there seems to be a coordinated effort by local and state officials to stall the release of these records. at least for now. according to reporting to the texas tribune, quote, texas governor greg abbott's office, the texas department of public safety, the u.s. marshal service and the city of uvalde are asking the states attorney general for permission to withhold records, and quote. that could bring clarity to what went wrong during the response to the massacre at robb elementary school. and vice news reporting the city of uvalde even hired a private firm to double down on

its refusal to hand over records. propublica in the texas tribune summit at 70 public information requests for 9-1-1 audio recordings, police vehicle in body camera footage. use of force documents, death records, and ballistic reports. so far, they say they received no response. many of the government entities that want to withhold these records argue that the release of the information would interfere with current investigations. joining me now to discuss this is lexi churchill, a researcher reporter for propublica and texas champions investigative unit. lexi, thank you so much for joining us here. since this article was published, she received more letters from abbott's office detailing the arguments as to why the records would be withheld. what are they saying to you now? >> that's right. we've received more detailed letters as you mentioned from both governor abbott's office as well the city of all day through the private law firm that you mentioned. they've hired. they've cited a lot of

different reasons for withholding these records but there are four in particular i'd like to highlight here that i have in my notes. one being that not only are these two agencies but also the department of public safety has said that releasing these records was essentially disclose important law enforcement tactical information that could be useful to criminals as gps put it, to uvalde in particular has said that the records apply to common law privacy which has a standard that it is both highly intimate and not of the public interest. and they argue specifically that the records have emotional and mental health distress information. the city also notes that they're being sued as one of the reasons they don't say by who. but as you mentioned earlier, the common thread between all of these agencies local, state and federal so far has been that they did want to disclose this information because there is an ongoing investigation to

the law enforcement response. >> right, and this is usually the give and take that happens although in this case, there is some pretty critical information with obvious public interest that we don't know about in the shooting. so i'm just sort of curious, what are the nuggets of information you think that we could find out if this, if these records were in fact released to you? >> it's hard to speculate exactly what information is in there. but i think there still so many outstanding questions of exactly what happened within that hour that the shooter was in the building. and what law enforcement was doing at the time. and since that initial a week of the shooting, there is been a so little information coming for us from public officials. the only information we really had is from journalists that are getting one new piece of information and confirming one new fact about what's the response was and how it was handled.

oftentimes, citing unofficial or not unofficial but of the record sources who aren't allowed to speak publicly about this. we're not getting the full picture from public officials at this point and these records, like the 9-1-1 calls in the body camera footage and that sort of thing. have that ron formation we're looking for that would give us a more clear picture of what happened. -- >> and i don't think i think in this case the real sort of underlying point is the initial narrative that day was wrong it was just wrong. the information that we were told was completely inaccurate. it was revised, not once but several times. and so this information could finally put some actual meat to the bone in terms of what happened on the tragic day. i'm curious are you talking with victims family members of victims those who were killed or injured. who also want to see this data out there? and one of the other avenues that you journalists can use to pry these records out of public

officials? >> that's a great question. i've spoken to lawmaker senator roland gutierrez who represents uvalde and he's been speaking to a lot of the victims families, many of who haven't really spoken publicly at this point yet. just a few weeks after the shooting. he's families want answers, parents are doubting on forsman and they just want to know what happened at this point the state attorney general and texas has about 45 days a few less now. to rule in and way whether these records should be withheld or not so that's the timeline we're looking at now that these letters have been sent and we'll see what happens. >> lexi please keep up the good fight it's important to illuminate these things. i appreciate all that you're doing and thank you for joining us as well. >> thanks so much for having me. >> of course. right after the break, nato has reported a grim new outlook on

the war in ukraine. 115 days after russia's brutal invasion alexander vindman will join me to talk about why that is and what the west could do to change the game. this is velshi. is is velshi the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. announcer: ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction.

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on ukraine. and this, morning we are receiving a grim new look about the -- for the war. need it was warning that russia's war could drag on for years. pushing allies not to let up, sending violent military and financial support to ukraine. referring to russia as a, quote, threat to our security. to piece. and stability. this is russia continuing its assault on eastern ukraine. two months into its large scale assault on the donbas region. there are been heavy losses recorded on both sides.

meanwhile, president zelenskyy looked to boost morale this week by traveling to the southern fronts to visit these troops. joining me now is alexander vindman, former director of european affairs from the national security council. thank you so much for joining us on a sunday morning. lieutenant colonel vindman. do you agree with this timetable assessment that we noted from the top, secretary general, that we should be ready for this war to now take years to settle? >> i think that secretary stoltenberg's assessment is actually astute and fairly comprehensive. he is talking about stability in europe. which for the u.s. is a vital interest. it is going to have broader effects both from a security and an economic perspective. these shocked that we are seeing that are infecting inflation domestically are likely to last as energy and commodity markets are disrupted for a long time. so i think from that standpoint

we are in for some shocks for quite some while. probably even maybe a nudge toward a recession. but from a security standpoint, he is also hitting on something that really did not necessarily have to be a long war, if needed when the u.s. had come and with more support early on. and temperatures decision-making about this war against a protracted war. we are going something back to akin to a 2014 scenario, where russia went in and invaded ukraine and thought it had achieved enough damage to establish a failed state scenario. now, we are in it for the long haul. either to gain some territory in the east or purely to destabilize ukraine for the foreseeable future. and in so doing, without the west, without nato. before we start taking our eye off the ball and moving in that direction. if ukraine does become a failed state on the border of nato in the eu. >> so when you are essentially

talking about is a war of attrition. which will last years. i don't have terrible economic impacts across the globe. on everything from energy to the food market. your solution is something that can't be done, because you argue that we should have done more on the front and as a preventative measure to intimidate people from going into ukraine. with that not about the stakes, could we have not been dragged into an even more deadly war with the potential for even more death and economic destruction, if we are gone in hard early on? >> definitely not. i think that the assessment is good news going to be quite keen on providing support to either conquer ukraine or make it a failed state. and we have indicated the kind of cost that russia is going to bear. this is not going to be a cost less war for russia also, but at this point a war that the russians are willing to bear

the cost for. and i do not think it necessarily needs to be a years -long war just yet. i think that we are heading, more likely than not, into a projected worsen area. but russia is burning through a large portion of its military. it is not just the equipment, it is also military force and personnel. . and with sufficient weapons coming through in the next several months, with a higher tempo that we are seeing now. this does not have to play off in a long war scenario. russia's ground sources could be prevented in the east and south. and this could allow them to compel them to negotiate a solution. we should not take it as a foregone conclusion that this could play out for years. . happening just in time or frankly in some cases a little bit too late. we should go ahead and start to open up this -- as indicated by land, lease

support ukraine to deliver defeat to the russian ground forces. part of russia's armed forces. and use that as a means to compel its negotiate a solution. >> yeah. it is very difficult diplomacy, obviously, around here. this, week nbc news reports that back in april president biden asked secretary defense lloyd austin, secretary of state tony blinken, to tone down the rhetoric after they publicly said that the administration lauded ukraine to win the war against russia. you talked about the story, what do you make of it, are they being to quote here or should they be upfront that is our objective? >> well, i think there are two things -- we are, seeing frankly, is the public facing contest between two factions of the u.s. government. there is the kind, of unfortunate pattern of his played out over the latest cookies of not three decades. which is putting the

relationship with russia first. understandably, to a certain extent. because russia is -- to nuclear power. but we should understand that there is an adversary. we're not gonna make a lot of headway with russia. it is going to take a lot of time and holding our ground, frankly. to protect our interests. the other thing is recognizing that the formula has not worked. and that the only way to secure the u.s., economically or from a purely national security perspective, is to provide ukraine the means it needs to deliver defeats to russia. in so doing, to have russian turn away from its desire. more often the, not using military force or law enforcement or security services. >> all right. retired lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, thank you so much for joining us on the sunday evening. even to discuss this plea canoes, i really appreciate it. all right, coming up.

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and power is a very good thing. ♪ this weekend, we have got some great news for parents of young children, which includes yours truly. kids as young as six months are now eligible to be vaccinated against covid-19. yesterday the cdc advisory panel determined that the pfizer and moderna vaccines are safe to be given to children under five. shortly thereafter, the cdc director was shell lewinsky gave her sign off. we will nascar seeing vaccinations of america's youngest beginning as soon as this coming week. i am not crying you are crying. let's bring in nbc news correspondent jesse gus, who has been following the story.

jesse, what more do we know? >> well, this is relieving is bringing smiles not only to you but to parents who have been following this all of the country watching this story closely. the -- clinic says they will begin scheduling appointments tomorrow morning, with a shots in arms for you some of those youngest children by wednesday. but while some parents are eager to get the kids vaccinated, others are not in a rush. >> after a weight lasting more than a, year this morning, children in the u.s. as young as six months old are finally eligible for the covid-19 vaccine. on saturday, the cdc signed up on a three dose regiment for kids six months to four years old and a two dose regimen for -- >> vaccinating children as a critical opportunity to protect them from hospitalization and death from covid-19. . >> the cdc says nearly 20 million more kids are now in trouble in the u.s., with this already shipping across the

country. >> when you think we will see somebody getting a shot in their arm? >> i think tuesday. if money were not a federal holiday, i would've said monday. >> the emergency use authorization says that the fda has potential benefits outweigh the potential risks. even before the green light, doctor young's family was already. >> this will help save lives, it will help our kids really get the social interactions they've been eating for a long time. >> the recent kaiser family foundation survey found only 18% of parents with kids under five are eager to get them vaccinated. >> i think they are too young. and they have not been enough tests. >> i don't think there's any harm in just waiting a little bit, and seeing what can of impacts that might be on other kids. >> another mom is not rushing, saying her kids have been vaccinated oldest and youngest unvaccinated once all that covid this winter. >> it is not that i want to get them vaccinated, it's just not super gym. >> still, the cdc advisory committee says it among kids want to, for covid is the fifth

leading cause of death. >> i am encouraging families to consider getting vaccinated as soon as possible, because we are in a summer season. people are traveling. people are not wearing masks. they are not taking precautions. for the parrot, this will definitely peace of mind necessary to protect their children. >> but it is going to take longer to get to that point in florida. o that state is the only one tht has not specifically ordered vaccine doses for this new group of children, from the federal government. because florida is not recommending that age group to get vaccinated against covid-19. doctors in that state can now make their own orders for these vaccines. that was able to start on friday when the eua went through. but the white house says that the cause of this delaying these orders, they are behind the rest of the country. there four children in florida, we are going to have to wait a little bit longer. . sam >> nbc news, just the courage in cleveland, thank you so much, appreciate the reporting. right after the break we will have a crucial discussion on this doing teens.

about the role of reparations. what's the government can and should be doing. an example of where it worked. before we go to break, a quick programming note. hope you'll join stephanie cross read tonight for a brand-new msnbc special called, the culture is. black women. it centers around artists and thought-provoking dinner conversation with black woman trebek or who are shaping america's culture. plus, a never before seen interview with vice president kamala harris. the culture is black women, it airs tonight at 10 pm eastern on msnbc. and it is also streaming on peacock. ♪ and party every day. ♪ ♪ i want to rock and roll all night ♪ applebee's late night. because half off is just more fun. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪ ♪ now that's eatin' good make way for the first-ever chevy silverado zr2. with multimatic shocks, rugged 33-inch tires, and front and rear electronic locking differentials.

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welcome to your world. your why. what drives you? what do you want to leave behind? that's your why. it's your purpose, and we will work with you every step of the way to achieve it. today's juneteenth. the newest for the holiday commemorates the day in -- when the last slaves in galveston, texas, or form they

were free. two years after abraham lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation. however, while formerly enslaved people across the country now have their freedom they did not have much else. to remedy this, the federal government promised to provide nearly 4 million newly-freed americans with 40 acres and a mule. it was an idea proposed by black leaders at the time. that ever would've previously redistributed land that was previously on by confederates. it would've given former slaves the chance to own land, be self sufficient. for -- the government backtracked on this promise after abraham lincoln was assassinated. however, the notion of granting reparations as compensation to black americans for the horrific institution of slavery has continued to grow. to this day, the phrase 40 acres and a room you will, commonly referred to in discussions about how to bridge the racial wealth gap that exists to this day in this country. for example, according to the

latest table from the brookings institution, in 2018 the median held for white households was a little over $188, 000, compared to a little over $24,000 for black household. researchers have found that race based economic disparities stem from that ultimate promise for reformations made nearly 160 years ago. and although the fight for reparations has stalled at the federal level, advocates are making progress at the state and local levels. after the break, i will speak with two people who are leading the charge, including the former illinois politician who was able to attain reparations for his town. about what restitution could look like in this modern age. s modern age f tech who are making such a fuss over finally launching themselves into space? i've been putting millions of people into spaces for years. wait a minute. wait a minute. there's one going up now! how many of these guys are there? apartments-dot-com. the place to find a place.

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has failed to pass the bill titled h.r.40, which would establish a commission to study how reformations can be used to alleviate economic disparity for the centers of the formerly enslaved. for that, reason several states in cities are now taking action on their own. in the beginning of this month, california's reparations task force released a 500-page report detailing the harms down to black residents. the reports recommendations range from reforms to policing to housing grants to black families that were forced from their homes to make way for

various state projects and freeways and parks. last, year a chicago suburb of evanston famously became one of the first cities to issue operations to his own black residents. they were not direct payments. they came in the form of housing grants of up to $25,000. to be awarded to 16 residents for home repairs or property costs. however, that was only phase one of a historic plan to distribute $10 million to evanston's black community. joining me now is robin route simmons. she spearheaded that project in evanston, and was a former alderman of the city's fifth ward. also with this is doctor robert patterson, professor of the department of african american studies at georgetown university. he's also the author of the upcoming books black equity, black equality, and reparations in the black community. thank you both so much for joining on this sunday morning. robin, let's start with you. take us through the process of

getting rough reparations for the black community in evanston? how do you get started? what is the current state of the program? >> thank you. first of all i have to say happy father's day to my father, and to all the fathers out there. but how we got started, that was how many other communities in institutions and the united states government should get started. and hearing from the black community on what repair looks like based on our harm. and very hyper locally in evanston, my consensus that you mention, we started with housing. but it is important to know that the black community is looking for all forms of repair. housing grants. cash payments. business grants. access to education and health care and so on. but through our community process, are reparations committee was formed, and released its first -- which was a 20,000 dollar housing benefit that will build wealth for families in evanston they have been harmed by discriminating practices in our black community. >> just out of curiosity, what

was the pushback? was it intense? was it not? what does the success, ben and how do you measure success? >> well, i will tell you. and our city we are progressive. and there was not an initial pushback. there was caution on making sure that it is legal. that it is constitutional. that it is viable. but our consensus on moving forward with reparations, for the most part, the challenge has come in, how do we prioritize what form of repair? we started with housing. some i want to have a different form of reparations. and now, even outside of our community, conservative groups have threatened to challenge legally our efforts in evanston. but we have a strong city staff, corporation counsel, and in cummings's already defend our values and our legislation in evanston, should come to that. >> got you. and doctor patterson, when we talk about reparations, most people think, oh, it is just giving cash to people. but as robin noted, there are

clearly different ways to do it. as an academic, i am curious. what are the most beneficial ways, do you think, to execute reparations? and why? >> good morning. and echoing happy father's day to all the fathers out there, as well. >> yes. >> a couple of points. i think it is important. the task force recommendation from california, and their executive summary was phenomenal, in many ways, because it drew tension to the fact that reparations have several components. some are actually financial, direct payments. others are payments that benefit institutions within communities, so that you, for example, can see trying to level at the funding of schools as an example. in addition to that, part of what's i think is so important about the reports that california task force issued is that it really makes the explicit connection from slavery to reconstruction to jim crow to the contemporary

moments, where there are state and federal policies that intentionally and actively discriminated against black communities, that actually have caused these wealth gaps. they have caused these education gaps. that have caused these health disparities. and these are not just cash handouts. and that's the way to decrease, the way to eliminate the racial equity gap, is to provide funding to close those areas, that we know the government was actually very active in doing. in terms of housing and displacing urban renewal. and so it seems like a multi pronged approach, which includes direct payments. that includes loans. that includes grants. and that address a range of areas where discrimination was legalized, systemic, and persistent. >> i don't think i am revealing anything crazy here. doctor paterson, we are in age right now of intense backlash.

to the idea that there is systemic racism in our society. coming from the right. once you do you think is a response for that, and how does that change the political dynamics around in the discussion around reparations? >> that is why i said that i think the historical connections at the task force in california attempts to make is important. because it actually shows that no, racism is not a figment of one's imagination. it does not have to be this over individual expression of racism, for example, where someone is saying that i am intentionally doing this. you could be policies and procedures that were designed to keep black people excluded. i mean, the report for example makes the point that even before policy versus ferguson, the station had to decide if segregation in schools was legal. and so part of what i think the issue on the right partially is is a willful ignorance towards history. and i think that part of what's

people who are interested in making the case for reparations continues to have to do is to show, number one, this is not a hand there. but rather, this is a historic process that has accumulated across time. and in addition to that, we have to show that the advantages. the wealthy villages that white people have gone through, who is with the result of policies that have benefited i do not just have to do with hard work and diligence and that type of conversation that actually includes what happened historically in the present moment. >> and robin, pretty quickly here, documentary being shot at the trebek film festival titled the big payback, follows your journey to pay $10 million to be distributed to evanston's black river as residents as reparations. in -- fights you could h.r.40 pass after all the time. let's listen to a quick clip. >> we are so excited. with some of the legislation. we have used it in presentations that we have made. we used you outstanding

construct. you have been, congress member, a real hero to me. >> thank you. a member nationally of cities, we learned that all government starts locally. and the thought was, why not do what we can? you will hear the local level while hr4 the is working through its process, through your leadership. we could have layers of repair, later's of -- because as we know those damages are -- yes, we are removed from slavery. but -- still because the color for dark skin. what can reparations other kids to learn from that film, from your work? >> you can learn that the process is complicated. and it must start, that's how you do reparations, you start. you can learn that there are over 100 cities now that are advancing local reparations and that we have more support of her in congress. you can call for an executive order to be signed by president biden for the commission to be

established. and you can see us free screening of the big pay back at the apollo theater today in new york city, sponsored by ben & jerry's. thank you. >> ben & jerry's, that sounds delicious. rob andrews simmons and dr. robert shape alison, thank you so much. that does it for me. thank you for watching. happy juneteenth. also happy father's day. in terry afternoon apps, all dads out there. the sunday show with john kaye part begins right now. >> good morning, welcome to the sunday sound. i'm jonathan capehart. this sunday, the fragility of american democracy is being exposed hearing by hearing. the january 6th committee will conduct its fourth public hearing this tuesday. and if it's anything like the two this week, buckle up. the biggest take away? donald trump and his allies