meaningful life. or i can actually change peoples lives, and that has been my objective. it i'm going to put this behind me. i need to put this nightmare behind me. this sunday, making the case. >> our democracy came dangerously close to catastrophe. >> january 6 testimony that president trump knew he had lost the election but continued to argue that it was rigged. >> i thought boy, he's become detached from reality if he really believes this stuff. there were suggestions by mayor giuliani to go declare victory and say we won it outright. >> and the unconstitutional plot to overturn the election. >> i said are you out of your effing mind? this is completely crazy. >> this is constitutional mischief. >> putting vice president

pence's life in danger during the capitol riot when he refused to go along. >> approximately 40 feet. that's all there was. 40 feet between the vice president and the mob. >> i'll talk to one of the committee members, democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland. plus, the economy. prices everywhere going up. >> everyone had it up to here really. >> interest rates too. >> we're strongly committed to bringing inflation back down. >> leading to a sinking stock market. >> this week was brutal. today was brutal. >> over fears of a coming recession. my guests this morning, former treasury secretary larry summers, who says a recession is likely. also, thanks to the troubled economy and president biden's aides, democrats are worried about the president's 2024 chances and whether he should even run again. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news chief white house correspondent, peter alexander. maria teresa kumar president of voter latino. republican strategist brendan

buck and politico national correspondent betsy woodruff swan. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. a good sunday morning on this juneteenth holiday and a happy father's day to all the dads out there. 50 years after the watergate break-in, we learned this week a lot about another president, donald trump, and all of that president's men. we learned at the january 6 hearings that mr. trump was told repeatedly that he lost the election but he continued to insist that he won and he spread the lie that the election was rigged anyway. we learned that mr. trump was told repeatedly that the idea that vice president mike pence could unilaterally overturn the election was illegal and unconstitutional, but that he continued to pressure pence to do so anyway. and we learned that the people advising mr. trump likely

believed their plot was illegal and unconstitutional, but they urged mr. trump to go ahead anyway. what is emerging from this past week's hearing is the image of a president who is more defiant than delusional. he tried to hang onto power not because he thought it was right but simply because he thought he could. finally, we've learned that january 6 was no one day event. the end result of weeks of planning and scheming by a president who could not and cannot admit that he lost the election and was rejected by the american electorate. standing in the way of mr. trump's plan was mr. pence, who ended up withstanding enormous pressure to go along with the scheme. >> if mike pence does the right thing, we win the election. >> in a relentless pressure campaign, donald trump pushed his vice president to overturn his loss, even as pence's life was in danger, though he knew his plan to have pence obstruct electoral certification violated

the law. trump was told his election claims of fraud were false by his legal and campaign advisers again and again. >> i thought, boy, if he really believes this stuff, he has, you know, lost contact with -- he's become detached from reality. >> but as trump failed in earlier attempts to reverse the outcome, lawyer john eastman began promoting a plan to have pence refuse to certify electors. on january 4th, trump and pence met at the white house with eastman, who acknowledged the plan was not legal. >> did john eastman ever admit as far as you know in front of the president that his proposal would violate the electoral college? >> i believe he did on the 4th. >> but that evening in georgia -- >> i hope mike pence comes through with us, i have to tell you. >> on january 5th, eastman acknowledged that the supreme court would reject the plan to keep trump in power.

in effect a blueprint for a coup. >> he initially started, well, i think he would only lose 7-2. after further discussion acknowledged, well, yeah, you're right, we would lose 9-0. >> i said are you out of your effing mind? you're completely crazy. you're going to turn around and tell 78 plus million people in this country that your theory is this is how you're going to invalidate their votes? >> on january 6 trump's pressure campaign accelerated, beginning with a 1:00 a.m. tweet, then 7:18 a.m., do it, mike, and then a phone call. >> the conversation was pretty heated. it was a different tone than i'd heard him take with the vice president before. >> do you remember what she said her father called him? >> the "p" word. >> at the ellipse that day after the call -- >> i hope mike has the courage to do what he has to do, and i hope he doesn't listen to the

rhinos and the stupid people that he's listening to. >> at 12:53 pence released a letter saying he didn't have the authority to overturn the will of the voters. at 1:00 p.m. he convened a joint session of congress. by 12:57, the first group who had gathered at the capitol to pressure pence had reached the west front, clashing with officers. >> he deserves to burn with the rest of them. pence voted against trump and that's when all this started? yep, that's when we marched on the capitol. >> the president's chief of staff, mark meadows, was notified of the violence at the capitol by 2:00 p.m. and likely earlier. the testimony establishes that mr. meadows quickly informed the president. rioters breached the capitol at 2:13 p.m. >> we thought the president should tweet something and tweet something immediately. >> mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our constitution, giving

states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts. >> i felt like he was pouring gasoline on the fire by tweeting that. >> the police couldn't control the situation and do their job. >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> at 2:26 p.m. secret service rushed vice president pence down the stairs. >> approximately 40 feet. that's all there was. 40 feet between the vice president and the mob. a confidential informant from the proud boys told the fbi, the proud boys would have killed mike pence if given a chance. >> joining me now is a member of the january 6th select committee, democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland. he was the lead impeachment manager during the second impeachment. congressman raskin, welcome back to "meet the press." >> delighted to be with you. >> let's just start with what you believe are the most important takeaways from these hearings this past week? >> donald trump knew the lie was a big lie. they used it also as a big shakedown and rip-off of his supporters to keep money rolling

in. usually when a campaign is over and someone has lost, it's very difficult to raise money, but they raised more than $200 million based on that lie. and then there's what i'm calling the big joke. the idea that nobody had noticed that for more than two centuries the vice president somehow has the unilateral power to decide who's going to be the next president. you know, they had invented a new theory with john eastman and their whole sweep that the vice president could step outside of his constitutional role and exercise unilateral extra constitutional authority just to reject the electoral college votes sent in by governors representing tens of millions of people. so that was an attempt essentially to use subterfuge and trickery and coercion to overthrow the will of the people. they were trying to steal a presidential election and seize the presidency. >> what's your barometer for success for these hearings?

>> well, we have to tell the truth to the american people because in a democracy, the people have a right to the truth. that's what it means to be a democracy. madison said that those who need to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power that knowledge gives, and it's a tough knowledge. it's a difficult knowledge. but everybody needs to know, we almost suffered a coup and we did suffer a violent insurrection on january the 6th. >> is just getting an historical record enough or does there need to be some justice? >> there needs to be accountability. accountability can mean two things. one is individual criminal accountability that people pay for their particular crimes as more than 800 people have already been prosecuted for everything from assaulting a federal officer to interfering with a federal proceeding to seditious conspiracy, which means conspiracy to overthrow and put down the government of the united states. but accountability also means collective accountability.

and that's the real project that we're engaged in under house resolution 503. telling the truth to the people so we can make decisions about how to fortify democratic institutions going forward. >> president trump lashed out at the committee and lashed out at vice president pence just in the last 48 hours. essentially has not changed his view. he calls mike pence weak. says -- i think he called him a conveyor belt. this public admission that essentially he wanted, continues after all this evidence, is that -- is he confessing? >> yeah, he's essentially saying yeah, i did it and i'll do it again. which is what we've been contending all along, that if you allow impunity for attempts at unconstitutional seizures of power, which is what a coup is, then you're inviting it again in the future. and to be a strong

self-sustaining, self-respecting democracy, we can't allow people to decide that they are above the law and that they are more important than our constitutional processes. >> do you think every time donald trump readmits to what he did, what should be the reaction of the attorney general every time the former president does this? >> well, the attorney general really shouldn't be reacting to particular provocations by particular politicians or criminals. i mean that's not really the role of the attorney general. the role of the attorney general is to determine based on the facts and the law whether there's probable cause to believe that somebody has violated the federal law in the united states and then to follow the criteria of the department of justice. you've got to look at the culpability of the defendant, to what extent they acted willfully to do a criminal act. you've got to look at the gravity and nature of the offense. this offense has massive

implications for the rule of law in america. and you've got to look at deterrence. do we want to move into a system of government where losers in presidential elections can try to overturn the election by nonviolent or violent means. >> given everything you know, if you were in his shoes, do you think this is a close call or not? >> i'll leave that judgment to them. one of the many things that donald trump destroyed during his time in office was the idea that the political branches have to respect the independence of the law enforcement function. so that really is up to them. we're talking about people who are very confident -- >> you're familiar with the law. you were a constitutional law professor before you got into this job. >> yeah. >> do you believe that this is a close call for merrick garland. >> again, i come back to the culpability of the defendant, the nature of the offense, which i think is extraordinarily grave here. it's hard to think of a more grave offense. and the question of deterrence. is it important to deter coups

and insurrections and i would say yes. i think that's as deep as i want to get into the weeds on it. >> i want to ask about a couple of things that came up at the hearing that i'd like some clarification on. first i'm going to play something that mr. jacob, the vice president's then counsel, he described the vice president's refusal to be evacuated by the secret service. there's a specific detail he mentioned. i want to ask you about. take a listen. >> the head of his secret service detail, tim, said i assure you we're not going to drive out of the building without your permission. the vice president said something to the effect of, tim, i know you, i trust you, but you're not the one behind the wheel. >> you had indicated a couple of months ago how chilling this was. that's being -- that felt like a hanging meatball hanging out here. there wasn't a follow-up on this. why was the vice president concerned that his head of detail wasn't the one behind the wheel? >> well, first of all, i think

this was a moment of real courage displayed by vice president pence. what he was saying is i'm not leaving the capitol until we count the electoral college votes, as required by the 12th amendment of the constitution and the electoral count act. you know, the colloquial phrase "who's behind the wheel" could mean a lot of different things. it could mean, you know, who ultimately is commanding the secret service and telling everybody who's behind -- >> there was some question, the former -- we know that there was an acting deputy chief of staff that was a member of the secret service that the president had -- i mean is that where this is going, and do you have any other evidence to indicate this there were real concerns about who the secret service -- who pence's detail was listening to? >> you know, i don't want to get into that. to me, it's obviously of interest and i'm sure it's of interest to vice president pence

in terms of his own whereabouts and his own movement. but in terms of the big picture, we know that there was an organized hit against our democracy. there was an attempt, a successful attempt to block the transfer of power, to impede congress and the joint session counting electoral college votes and the effort to get pence to declare these absurd powers to unilaterally reject electors. so i think he was wise not to have left the capitol. none of us wanted to leave the capitol. when we were forced out of our chambers, i think that most members, certainly every member of my party, i know ms. cheney, most members were saying we must complete this task tonight. >> are you pursuing this line of investigation more? is somebody else? or is this something you feel like you've gotten everything you can to find out who was in charge of the secret service at

the moment? >> you know, this is not the hearing that i'm going to be conducting. we sort of divided up the labor. i'm working on the mobilization of the mob and the domestic violent extremist groups, like the proud boys, the oath keepers, the 3%ers and so on. so that's not a particular detail that i've been following. >> is mike pence a hero? >> well, in a time of absolutely scandalous betrayal of people's oaths of office and crimes being committed all over the place, somebody who does their job and sticks to the law will stand out as a hero on that day. i think on that day he was a hero for resisting all of the pressure campaigns and the coercive efforts to get him to play along with this continuation of the big lie, this big joke that he could somehow call off all the

proceedings himself. i mean it likely would have forced everything into the house of representatives for a so-called contingent election, where the gop knew that they had a majority of state delegations because we vote on the basis of one state, one vote, rather than one member, one vote. >> i want to talk about something when you're wondering if we're going to have more investigation, deterrence has to be part of the calculation here. let me get to something judge luttig got to. he talked about the clear and present danger we are in. he added to this very day the former president, his allies and supporters pledge that in the presidential election of 2024, if the former president or his anointed successor were to lose that election, that they would attempt to overturn that 2024 election in the same way they attempted to overturn the 2020 election but succeed. is there any change to the law that actually could prevent

this, or at the end of the day you've got to hope human beings are going to do the right thing? can you legislate doing the right thing? >> well, there are a number of reforms to the electoral count act, reforms to the protection of the right to vote, reforms to the electoral process that will dramatically reduce the chances that someone can succeed in trying to impose an exercise of political will over the rule of law. i think you're right that ultimately if someone has no respect for the rule of law and believes only in their own power in an obsessive narcissistic way, there is little that can deter that person, but there are things that can fortify us against them and that is an important part of the committee's work. the most important part as judge luttig was saying, by the way, he's like justice scalia to the

conservative right. he's like robert bork. he is out there blowing the whistle saying there's a clear and present danger right now heading into the 2024 elections that donald trump and the trumpist forces will attempt the same kind of maneuver to usurp the will of the people and declare himself president. that's extraordinary. >> you've talked that you have new information and new information seems to come in all the time. is it new witnesses, new people or new factual information? >> well, it's both. there are still people who are turning over information to the committee. >> new emails that we know from mr. eastman that came through, that's clear. >> and there are people who are just realizing that they are in possession of facts or evidence that the committee might not have. the chairman has encouraged everybody to come forward. we've got a tip line. >> useful information? has this tip line provided you with actual concrete information that ended up being true that you investigated? >> we know things this weekend that we didn't know last weekend. >> and things that are going to be important facts that we didn't even know?

>> it's all part of a picture. but again, the general story has been known for a long time. we have a president who for whatever reason refused to accept the results of a presidential election and then organized a hit against american democracy through a number of different avenues to try to overthrow the election and install himself as president. >> you're part of the investigation. were sitting members of congress -- do you have evidence that sitting members of congress helped the proud boys and oath keepers prepare for the january 6 insurrection? >> i don't want to comment on specific members at this point. >> are there going to be -- were members of congress -- we've seen the release of that tour. is that -- does not mean more is to come? >> there have been -- there are different elements of this hit and we're discussing all of them. there was the so-called green

bay sweep, the attempt to overturn joe biden's lawful majority in the electoral college, there was also a violent street insurrection and insurrection with violence unleashed against the capitol. we're going to tell all parts of it and we're going to invoke the names of everybody relevant who was involved. >> jamie raskin, member of the january 6 committee, democrat from maryland, happy father's day. >> thank you so much. >> i appreciate you coming and sharing your perspective. when we come back, gas prices, inflation, interest rates, all of it is rising and so are fears of a recession. former treasury secretary larry summers joins me next on where he thinks the economy may be headed. erfect for any party. pool parties... tailgates... holiday parties... even retirement parties. man, i love parties. subway keeps refreshing and refreshing

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inflation is eating away at wage increases. the dow now is down 18% for the year so far after another rough week. the fed just raised interest rates three-quarters of a point. and there are real doubts that the fed has the ability to actually cool inflation without triggering a recession. larry summers, president clinton's treasury secretary and advisor to president obama, he saw high inflation coming and says there's real danger of a recession ahead and he joins me now. mr. summers, welcome back to "meet the press." >> happy father's day, chuck. >> thank you. and happy father's day to you. let me start with two takes on what's coming. you've got president biden in an interview with the associated press. he said a recession is not inevitable. secondly we're in a stronger position than any nation in the world to overcome this inflation. and then you've got jamie dimon, who essentially says i said there were storm clouds, big storm clouds hanging over this economy, and now it's a

hurricane. so can both statements be true or essentially is one person seeing a recession and another person not? >> look, nothing is certain and all economic forecasts have uncertainty. my best guess is that a recession is ahead. i base that on the fact that we haven't had a situation like the present with inflation above 4 and unemployment below 4 without a recession following within a year or two. and so the likelihood is that in order to do what's necessary to stop inflation, the fed is going to raise interest rates enough that the economy will slip into recession. i think that view, which was not a common view a couple of months ago, is now the view of a number

of statistical models and the view of a range of forecasters and i think will increasingly become a consensus view. >> is a recession -- is a recession a mild one necessary in order to tame inflation? can inflation at this point be tamed without triggering a recession? >> i don't think there are historical precedents for inflation at the rate we now have it coming down to the target the fed has set of 2% without a recession. i think all the precedents point towards a recession, chuck. there's always a first time for everything, and i don't want ever to make forecasts with certainty. but if you look at a whole range

of indicators, if you look at what's happened in markets, if you look at the relative levels of interest rates of different durations, if you look at surveys of consumer expectations and if you look at the simple fact that what drives inflation is supply and demand, supply doesn't change that fast and so mostly what you need to do to reduce inflation is reduce demand. and that is a very hard process to control and so it usually leads to a recession. all of that tells me that while i wouldn't presume to be able to judge the timing, the dominant probability would be that by the end of next year, we would be seeing a recession in the american economy. >> look, there's two things the administration is at least pondering in order to deal with

high costs, provide some relief. but i'm curious if you think those decisions could actually end up, unfortunately, contributing to inflation. one would be a gas tax holiday, lowering the price and making it easier for folks to go out there and buy more bass and the second is taking out some of these trump era tariffs. are any of those, if they're done as a relief mechanism for high prices, do any of those become inflationary? is there risk of both of those triggering a little bit more inflation? >> look, i think cutting the tariffs is clearly a good idea. it will hold down prices. it will enable us to take a more strategic approach to dealing with china. it could take a percentage point or more off the cpi over time. cutting tariffs is the right thing to do. i hope the administration will find a way to do it.

i'm no fan of the gas tax holiday. i think that's kind of a gimmick and eventually you have to reverse it. i'll tell you what the most important thing is, chuck. i'm not sure it can save the situation and prevent a recession, but it would be a very positive contribution. if at long last we can have some kind of bipartisan budget bill with three elements. with reduction of pharmaceutical prices, which will help health care and will also reduce the inflation rate, that's within our reach if we just use the government's large purchasing power through medicare, number one. number two, put in place the partial repeal, not the full repeal, but the partial repeal of the trump tax cuts, which would take some demand out of

the economy, increase confidence and reduce pressure on the fed, and number three, an all in more energy supply approach that emphasizes freeing up fossil fuels in various ways in the short run and making with government support the ultimate pivot to renewables. all of that would take pressure off the fed, would bring down the inflation rate, would operate to restore confidence, and would, i think, be a very positive contribution. i'm not privy to all the discussions and negotiations that are going on in washington, but surely the most important thing for any public spirited people is to try to find a deal along those lines. >> very quickly, a lot of business leaders are frustrated by the fed.

they felt like, you know, the fed didn't act soon enough. you certainly thought the fed should have acted sooner. any concern that the fed is now going to overreact, raise interest rates too high, while also pulling money out of the market, the quantitative tightening. is there a bigger risk of them doing too much or do you still worry that they're going to do too little? >> i think they have got to find a balance. but, you know, chuck, when the doctor prescribes antibiotics, if you stop taking them the moment you feel better, it can often be a mistake to not carry through. and if the worst thing we could do would be to start to stop inflation and not do enough to slay the dragon. so i think the fed has to be very, very careful here on that

issue. they have made huge mistakes of being behind the curve. their models, to be honest, i don't think are accurate for the current situation. i think even their latest forecast at this last meeting was, i think, wishful thinking in believing that they could restrain inflation with unemployment simply rising to slightly above 4%. so it's a hard job for the fed. >> larry summers, former treasury secretary, former chief economic advisor to president obama, really appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. and again, happy father's day. when we come back, donald trump responds to the january 6 hearing by doing what? attacking mike pence again. the panel is next. refresh, a subway® is refreshing their classics, like the sweet onion teriyaki sauce, topped on tender shaved steak. it's a real slam dunk. right, derek? wrong sport, chuck. just hold the sub, man! subway keeps refreshing and refreshing

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welcome back. politico national correspondent betsy woodruff swan, peter alexander, brendan buck, maria teresa kumar, president of voter latino.

president trump wants to respond. so let's take a listen at his response, which i have to say, it's pretty striking. let's take a listen. >> mike pence had a chance to be great. he had a chance to be, frankly, historic, but mike did not have the courage to act. mike pence had absolutely no choice but to be a human conveyor belt, he was a human conveyor belt. >> peter, after all of that this week, he chose to go after mike pence again. you know, it almost feels like, i keep coming back to a few good men. he keeps confessing to ordering the code red. >> he also said it was a simple protest that got out of hand. i think it's clear to everybody, it's not a simple protest that got out of hand.

some former trump aides were struck by all the damning revelations they heard and most importantly, they came from republicans. pro-trump republicans and say while that may not affect ultra maga republicans, independent-minded republicans, this could have an effect going forward but i'm struck by the fact that this lie has become so central to the republican party, take the state of michigan, right now, the leading republican candidate for government ahead of the primaries. ryan kelly charged for his role. >> they made a resolution to say the second largest republican party in the country essentially, it said he was illegitimately elected. what are you hearing from trump/pence world? >> what's made people uncomfortable is having videos of themselves splashed up for everybody to see. what's most unnerving for a host of these witnesses is less the content than the presentation.

it's one thing if it's written down in a hundred page document that people may or may not read but a video clip on youtube forever and that trump himself, of course, will be able to watch because that guy loves nothing more than good video content. that's something that's been caught in concerns prior to the hearings and those concerns are only escalating as the hearings unfold because people don't know who's going to be next. they know they were on video, they spoke, told the truth under oath. they don't know. are they going to get clipped or not get clipped? it's not a pleasant situation. >> how many republicans watch this going, how can i find a way to distance myself from trump even more without getting attacked by him? >> it's funny. the clips i saw was some people seemed cathartic for them. in the moment, they seemed to be relieved they could finally tell their story of what took place. republicans see this and it's the same story they've known for a long time. donald trump is not going to let go of this. we saw this past week.

he's still going to lean in, still going to punch mike pence. he never learns his lesson. that's one of his biggest vulnerabilities is that he won't be able to drop this, and i think what we've seen in places like georgia where voters are sort of over this, done talking about this. maybe they even side with him on this question, but it's not what they're focused on. >> keeping him from the nomination? has the committee done their job in your mind if it keeps, enough republicans to say, keep him away? >> i don't think this committee, and i think jamie raskin didn't even suggest it, i don't think they're going to influence a lot of voters. i think they know everybody has made up their minds. who's the audience? you asked the right questions. i think the audience is merrick garland. i think they try to prove a case to the department of justice there was a crime committed here and if there are political benefits, whether to impeach donald trump from running president, that's also part of the equation but i don't think they think there's going to be a political movement so much it's going to change enough minds that he's no longer viable. >> the importance of merrick garland acting and what would

that do to the party if he doesn't? >> really interesting. as someone mentioned to me that for most of his career, merrick garland has been an appellate court judge. he's used to evidence coming to him. the other attorney generals, janet reno, ashcroft and our most recent one, holder, they were active lawyers, seeking the truth. they had to make cases, the passiveness we see from merrick garland is the way he has been created. that's how he is an actual judge, and so when he's asking for people for the testimony, the written transcripts, it's almost as if he's asking for congress to collect the evidence for him. and i think that's one of the reasons why they've been timid to actually direct the department of justice to act, that's why when you asked raskin directly, was he making any recommendations, he doesn't

want, to but i would look closely at what liz cheney is doing. liz cheney said we need to make some calculation to act. >> to be clear, there's a lot of conversation. will there be a criminal referral or not? it doesn't matter whether there will be a criminal referral or not. what they've been testifying is in fact a criminal referral. you heard cheney herself saying this is illegal, unconstitutional. the bottom line is what i'm hearing from some folks who, on the democratic side have been saying, they don't think it would be helpful but counterproductive to be a criminal referral because it would further politicize the justice department which is what they're trying not to do. >> there's one really simple but underemphasized reason that this decision is so hard for the justice department, and that's because doj doesn't decide who's guilty. juries decide who's guilty and juries can be notoriously unpredictable, and in the justice department, when they lost the huge case, trying to convict to kidnap gretchen

whitmer, that was a sobering scary moment for d.o.j. prosecutors. because the general consensus on pretty much everyone that it was open and shut, slam dunk. but they lost. that's why as they go through this evidence connected to white house, trump, and officials, ultimately, in the final analysis, it's not their call. >> to make it toned down to make sure it's not political is having mike pence get more into the race. imagine right now our commission without liz cheney. that would then be completely political, but if mike pence goes into the republican parties, says, yes, i'm going to run, yes, he's the only republican right now that can actually shed the truth and it's going to have to come within the republican party to basically break it. >> the star witness at any trial with donald trump, it's mike pence. i mean, i think we're all saying, what the heck would this look like? >> i think mike pence is ready

for this to be over and does have the admission to run for 2024, the last conversation he wants to be having. he wants to talk about the great things he did in the trump/pence administration. he can't allow his persona among the republican base to be defined by this question and right now, this is the central thing we know about mike pence, his role in this attempted coup. >> as every u.s. attorney i've talked to, if there is a prosecution of donald trump, you have to have mike pence as your star witness. when we come back, with gas prices going up daily, we'll look at what really goes into the price of the gallon of gas. but as we go to break, we want to note the passing of a fixture here in the washington particularly in the late 20th century. mark was a political consultant, a columnist, great wit and most of all, familiar face and a cheerful face to many people on abc, cbs, nbc. many of his favorite targets as a liberal columnist were republicans. but equal opportunity critic of politicians of many stripes.

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it's still the eat fresh refresh, which means subway's upping their bread game. we're talking artisan italian bread, made fresh daily! the only thing fresher than their bread is the guy reading this. subway keeps refreshing and refreshing and refreshing and re- welcome back. data download time. gas prices are spiking just in time for summer travel season. americans are simply begging for relief. but there's a variety of factors contributing to the surge in prices, meaning there may not be a quick fix to bringing down fuel costs. it's not just about turning on the spigot, if you will. look, the price of gas, nationally here, the highest

we've ever done. over $5. if you factor inflation, that is not the all-time high for gas but in today's dollars. part of the reason why gas has spiked is not just the price of oil, it's the issue of refining. in fact, 730,000 fewer barrels per day were refined in 2021. that created part of our capacity problem that we had. much of this, we had an idling issue. obviously, the sanctions against russia. 30% of our capacity, essentially idled thanks to the sanctions on russia. daily capacity dropped a million barrels in our refining capacity since early 2020. so again, this is not the actual oil that we need or are looking for. we have that. it's the ability to turn it into actual gasoline. if you want to understand what goes into the gallon of gas, we can show you but the price of oil takes up most of it.

refining capacity is becoming a bigger chunk. in january 2021, the refining capacity was less for taxes and things like that. the amount of money refining is contributing to the price of gas is growing and growing at a much faster rate than other factors that go into a gallon of gas. so this the biggest problem we're dealing with. it is the ability to return more oil into gas, and again, this is not the all time high. that was back in 2008. but of course, in today's dollars, it is over $5. if you look back at previous dollars, we would be at about $3.51. when we come back, why more democrats get nervous and say maybe president biden shouldn't run for reelection. that's next. tomize your favorite footlong, set a pickup time, and jump the line! oh, here she goes! ugh, i thought she was actually gonna jump. just use this code and order on the subway app! here's liz, whose bladder leaks drop in uninvited.

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welcome back. peter alexander. the president has not given a lot of interviews to many reporters. he sat down with a r

pretty blunt. people are really down, they're really down. their need for mental health skyrocketed because people have seen everything upset, everything they counted on upset. that was a blunt, understandable reaction, but it was, what's the plan on dealing -- >> he also said that a recession was not inevitable. he said be confident, but i think the white house in the conversations had is walking a tight rope. balancing empathy with action and then trying to, you don't want to say to americans that things are better than they are because americans realize for themselves that they're not, but what struck me in the conversations that i have had over the last several days is the real frustrations among some democrats, a leading democratic

lawmaker was rare in-person presentation earlier this week, where some of the white house officials went to the hill, they said there was no strategy, no plan. this lawmaker said to me, we need to see the president be decisive and they really feel like there's decision paralysis on these key issues like tariffs and student loans. >> i heard this, he thought, particularly on tariffs, they've been doing this. let me tell you. this is what doug jones said to me on my podcast earlier this week about, he's stopped keeping biden caged in essentially. take a listen. >> joe has, he wears that office very well. he's very, he can be very presidential, but i think that they overcorrected and i think they need to let joe be joe. the gaffes and all. >> this has been a constant with him going back to the campaign, betsy. the staff seems overly protective. >> that's part of the reason he's outfront so little, a tiny

number of recent interviews, and now, of course, in this ap interview, this message he's sending that people are highlighting is that he's recognizing that there's a lot of pain and suffering in this country. >> a little jimmy carter flashback, a word he never actually said but malaise, infamous malaise speech. >> and that's something the senior white house staff are acutely aware of. the level of pain people are feeling. to your point, on the one hand, they don't want to say everything is terrible, sorry, things are so bad but not persuade people that gas costs less than it does and these questions about inflation and the economy are in the background of every senior white house staffer's mind as they're thinking about any number of policy issues. you think biden's reversal on saudi arabia didn't have an impact on the price of goods and services? >> would we have these whispers about 2024 and whether he should

run or not, if it didn't appear, a lot of democrats say they don't appear to know how to respond to the economic challenge, so maybe you're not the guy. >> first of all, i think when we're in this point in time when any president has low approval ratings, there's angst. i think we feel a particular angst because you have so many other forces that we normally don't see coming together. geopolitical instability and talking about the war in ukraine where you have oil prices impacting us, whether you actually have the opportunity to recover fully from covid, it's all a perfect storm. what we don't want to hear the president say though is that it's going to be hard if he doesn't actually talk about a plan. now, if he just released the strategic oil reserves, so we see a million barrels a day, that's good. what else is the plan? he can't just wag his finger at the oil companies without a plan of what he expects them to come do, and i think we're in the middle, i think we're coming out of the worst economic recession, indecisive political climate. whether we're talking about trump or recovery from covid,

from where we were, what we're doing now and we're tough but we're in the middle of the eye of the storm and getting better. collective understanding of what that looks like and he needs a plan to communicate that to people. >> one of the places to be is not in control of your own fate, and in the situation, the economy, the answer is not the president, it's the federal reserve. they're starting to take action and raising interest rates. the problem is, that's going to be painful as well. the antidote for a high inflation is mortgage rates, higher credit card rates, all kinds of things we see, but there is more pain to come. can't just turn the page on it. >> we have a minute left and another topic to get to was the gun deal. brendan, there was, i don't have time to play the issue but he was booed at the convention and chanting no red flag laws. is this, are senate republicans getting cold feet? >> i think they're acutely aware there's republican voters against any gun deal and this is sort of the issue, people used to say the nra is the reason

republicans don't act. that's always been not quite right but voters and members. it's not the nra itself. they're afraid of the voters and john cornyn saw that when he stood up in front of texas republicans who booed him but a big moment for john cornyn. the next majority leader after mitch mcconnell retires and the message to him is suck it up and you have to do hard things and this is the point of view like a ted cruz, play to the base or get things done. >> if you want a be a congressional leader, i have to choose, i don't want to be popular anymore. as we go, we want to note tomorrow is the second year we as a country formally recognize juneteenth as a federal holiday, marking the emancipation of african-americans from slavery. if you're not familiar with the celebration, take your time to educate yourself on this important part of our history. thank you for watching. happy father's day to all the dads out there. we'll be back next sunday, because if it's sunday, it's

"meet the press." out there. we'll be back next sunday, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." two more hearings into the january 6th attack on the capitol are scheduled for this week. the next one is set for tomorrow. we'll tell you what to expect. meanwhile, donald trump continues to defend the actions of his supporters on january 6th. and is again attacking mike pence for refusing to help overturn the election. this, as a new poll finds most americans believe trump should be charged from his role in the attack. and the lead republican negotiator for new gun safety talks in the senate, john cornyn, gs