sandra garza, thank you so much for coming out of this. tonight i really do appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> that is all in on this monday night. the rachel maddow show starts right now, good evening >> good evening, rachel. chris. thanks my friend. much appreciated. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy to have you here. happy monday. happy, happy juneteenth observance, i hope you got the day off. if you are planning your week ahead this week, there's two things you should drop into your calendar. first of all, the next hearing of the january ex investigation is gonna be tomorrow, tuesday. it starts at 1:00 eastern, whether or not you are available at 1:00 eastern, whether or not you are available to watch that live, you should know that we're gonna have a primetime recap tomorrow night after the hearing. we will wake up all the most important stuff from the hearing and what it means, tomorrow night, in primetime, starting at 8:00, eastern. and that is true both for tomorrow's hearing and for the

second hearing this week, which happens on thursday. to genuis experience this week. tuesday, 1:00 eastern. thursday, 3:00 eastern. and again, whether or not you can watch those live, you will have primetime recaps of each of those, at 8 pm eastern, tuesday and thursday nights. now, in terms of what we are expecting tomorrow, this is kind of the one that i've been waiting for. it's at least the stuff that we have covered most intensively on this show, as these stories, as this part of the plot has started to come into focus. the hearing tomorrow is about how trump and his cohort, coconspirators, what do you call them? team trump, tried to get into individual states to overthrow the election results from those states. and these were states that voted for biden, obviously, but where republicans were in charge of at least some part of the state government. now, the idea on the trump side is that they thought, if they could lean hard enough on

republicans state level officials, those officials would do what trump wanted. they would throw out the real results. so, the first witnesses tomorrow, we believe, will be some of that republican officials that trump leaned on to try to get them to throw out the election results from those states. that will include the house speaker, republican house speaker from the state of arizona, his name is rusty bowers. and you'll hear from him live tomorrow, i have no idea what kind of a witness he will be. i have no idea what he'll be asked. you'll be able to make up your own mind when you see it live, or when we recap it tomorrow night. but, i will just say, heading into that expected estimate me tomorrow, i think it's worth knowing that rusty bowers, again, a witness you'll hear from live tomorrow, he is in one particular and important way, he is everything that bill barr and mike pence, and all these other supposed heroes of the story, are not. however, much people like

attorney general, bill barr, vice president pence, have been lauded, over the course of this investigation, because at the very, very end, when it came down to it in the final, final, final accounting, they didn't ultimately go along with the last worst thing that trump asked them to do. however, much they're being lauded for not being as bad as trump, and not being willing to do everything he wanted, why one thing that neither of those wanted in the moment, not bill barr, not vice president pence, not trump lawyer eric harshman, not pence lawyer greg jacob, not the trump campaign manager bill stepien, not any of these guys we've heard from this far. they are all taking their bows now for not putting on a viking hat and smashing windows with the rest of the mob on january 6th, and good for them. but one thing that none of them did in the moment, what's stella's, tell the public. what was happening in the white house that they were so disturbed about, none of them was willing to sound the alarm in the moment, to say, hey, the

president is trying to get people to do something illegal here, and we're worried it's gonna get people killed on january six. none of them went to the public with their concerns in realtime, but you know who to do that in realtime? the arizona, very conservative republican speaker of the house, rusty bowers, who is going to testify tomorrow. again, i have no idea he'll be able as a witness, or what he will testify to, but the historical record record will show that he actually got this part of it right, when almost nobody else did. as he was getting calls from president trump himself, and from rudy giuliani, from all these other people in the presidents orbit, rusty powers, not only didn't go along with their demands that he should throw out arizona's election results, he kind of alone i'm among all these other guys, is the one who put out a press release, telling everybody that actually, that's what they are pressuring him to do. they were pressuring him to overturn the states election results, and that's wrong, and he needed everybody to know it in the moment.

look at this document. this is what you show sent peter at the pearly gates. this is your hall pass for a bear, at the end of your life as a public official, if your name is rusty bowers. see the date on it? it's a very important date, december 4th, 2020, for immediate release. arizona has become rusty bowers today made the following statement, quote, this week, rudy giuliani, jenna ellis, and others, representing donald trump came to arizona with a breathtaking requests, that the arizona legislature overturn the certified results of last month's election, and deliver the states electoral college votes to president trump. the rule of law forbids us to do that. mr. giuliani and miss ellis make their case here at least twice, on monday, and then unofficial public gathering hosted by a small group of legislatures, and again on tuesday, during a closed-door meeting at the state capitol, with republican leaders from both chambers of the legislature. both times, the trump team made claims that the election was tainted by fraud, but presented only theories, not proof.

again, keep in mind what's going on here, right? this is the one dog barked. he is alerting the public to the fact that there's been an unofficial gathering between republican legislatures and people from the trump campaign. and then, following that, a closed-door meeting, between republican leaders and the state legislature and people from the trump campaign, and this guy, the republican house speaker, says hey, this might be happening behind closed doors, but the public needs to know about this. i'm going public. i'm going to tell the public what's going on here, and also, that i'm not going to stand for it, i'm not gonna go along with it. he says, quote, even if such evidence existed, the arizona legislature simply couldn't do what's being asked. under arizona law, the presidential electors must vote for the winners of the popular vote, nothing in the u.s. constitution or the decisions of the u.s. supreme court, even suggests that the arizona legislature could retroactively appoint different electors who could cast their ballots for different candidates. the law does not authorize the

legislature to reverse the results of the election, as a conservative republican, i don't like the results of the presidential election. i voted for trump, and i worked hard to reelect him, but a cannot cannot and will not entertain the suggestion that we violate the law to change the outcome of the certified election. i and my fellow legislators swore an oath to support the u.s. constitution, and the laws of the state of arizona. it would violate that oath, the basic principles of republican government, and the rule of law, if we attempt to nullify the peoples vote based on unsupported theories of fraud. arizona voters choose who wins, and our system requires that their choice to be respected. you have concludes with this, 40 years ago, next month, ronald reagan reminded us that while the orderly transfer of authority is a commonplace occurrence for americans, quote, in the eyes of many in the world, this every four years ceremony except as normal, is nothing less than a miracle. rusty powers concludes, quote, and how americans are being reminded once again never to

take for granted, what president reagan correctly described as the continuity, which is the bulwark of our republic. again, look at the date on that, december 4th, 2020. that's more than a month before the january 6th attack, the republican house speaker in arizona, saying, yeah, i wanted trump to win. i voted for trump. but here he is, sounding the alarm, telling the public, that when the trump campaign with asking for behind closed doors was blatantly illegal. he went to the public. he said this is breathtaking, that's the word he used. a breathtaking request, telling the public, knowing what to do it, and correctly, saying, that trump was asking for, and the fact that he was asking for it would be the end of the peaceful transition of power in our country. rusty bowers was right. and almost no one else in republican politics was willing to tell that truth to the public about it at, that point. all these people who are sort of getting it right in retrospect, he got it right in

the moment. and he will be tomorrow's first witness. there will also be to republican state officials from georgia, you probably know the georgia story better. that is, you know, trump calling up the secretary of state in georgia, and demanding, basically, threatening the secretary of state that he needed to throw out just enough biden votes, or somehow, mysteriously find just enough trump votes for the secretary of state's office to be able to say, oh, actually, the results here in georgia has flipped. and the secretary of state and his office wouldn't go along with it, and then, trump kicked his supporters on those georgia officials, and then, the deputy in secretary of state's office, and then named gabriel sterling, do you see there in front of the microphones, he gave his own public press conference in december, where he said not only where the fraud claims about georgia falls. he said president trump's attack on the election and the people who administer it was going to get people killed. gabriel sterling again, went to the public without warning. he said that, in december 2020,

just before the january 6th attack. and just as rusty bowers was right in that press release earlier that month, gabriel sterling also was right. and he will be another one of the live witnesses tomorrow. and by that point in tomorrow's hearing, i think the committee will still have its unbroken record of every single witness they've called thus far, being a republican and or a conservative. but there's one other witness they're going to call tomorrow who i think breaks that mold. the last witness we're gonna hear from the committee tomorrow is, we have no idea what our politics are, or her political affiliation, and that's proper, because she's in a nonpartisan capacity. she's there to talk about being an election worker in georgia, a nonpartisan technocratic round level election worker. she, therefore, it will be a totally different kind of witness that we have seen thus far from the january 6th hearings. and it in terms of why she's there, you may not recognize her face, but you will probably

remember some of the story of this witness. in part because we covered it on this show last year quite a bit, but also, because the story of this witness, this george election worker, or her name is shame of, it's terrifying and strange, and a very memorable way. she also is that we had celebrity kenya that you might remember. i will refresh you on this. when trump called georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger and told him that he needed to overturn the biden win in georgia, when trump's lawyer rudy giuliani went to that republican-led legislature in georgia and told them, they needed to overturn the election. that claim that these guys were making about supposed fraud in georgia, that would justify those radical steps, all centered on a video clip that trump and company insisted, showed the elections being stolen, right there on tape. and said, they had video of election workers in atlanta, black election workers, naturally, african american election workers, they said the video showed them stuffing suitcases full of illicit

ballots. and they accuse those election workers, by name, of stealing the election, committing crimes. all that call with georgia secretary of state, raffensperger, trump brought up one particular election worker, by name, 18 times. he used her name 18 times on that call. trump called her a professional vote scammer, and a hustler. he kept talking about the supposed suitcases. the clip that showed all the fraud. trump even played that supposed incriminating videotape on a massive jumbo screen in a rally held in georgia, saying that it showed crime. of course he said that, but the video showed nothing of, but it showed fulton county election workers, a woman named shae moss, and her mother, a 62 year old retired grandmother -- for this election, fulton county looked like it was gonna be short staffed because of covid. so shae moss recruited her mom to sign up as a temp worker for election day. that video, that trump company,

got sophisticated on. all it showed was shae moss and her mom, election workers, literally doing their jobs on election night, taking ballots out of the secured containers they were transporting, like they were supposed to. and wanting them through the ballot counting machine, like they were supposed to. but trump and giuliani in all the trump folks, and friends at fox news, kept running this snippet video over and over, and saying that showed a crime, even though it actually shows just a normal election workers doing normal stuff, the normal way, with no malfeasance whatsoever. but then, fixating on this video, trump not only showing the video of conservative media, showing the video, giuliani, showing the video, and trump specifically naming the women in the video, as the ones who stole the election from him, and that had profound consequences. shae moss and her mom, even her teenage son, got inundated with vulgar and racist harassment and death threats.

shae moss's mother called 9-1-1 multiple times, because people were showing up at your house and banging on her door, making threats in person. >> i've been having terroristic threats. i've been having harassing phone calls and emails, and they came out, and made a police report. and yesterday, last night about ten minutes after nine, somebody was banning on the door. and now, somebody's bombing on the door again. >> oh there, screaming. they still banning the door. >> okay. >> they're still banding on the door. lord. jesus, where is the police? >> they're on the way, ma'am. >> oh god. >> jesus, where is the police? this became their lives. shae moss and her mother, ruby freeman, in the midst of all those harrowing threats and

intimidation, something else can happen. that day that 9-1-1 tape, was from december 2020. the following month, in january, 2021, actually two days before the january ex that doc, a woman showed up on her doorstep, said she's been sent by a high-profile individual, and she was there to help miss freeman. now, with this woman told ruby freeman that she was in danger. she told her that people were coming to her house in 48 hours, and she was gonna be locked up. that woman who came to ruby freeman's house, and made that apparent threat, it turned out in the end, which at least, at some point, had been a publicist for a troubled trump supporting hip-hop artists, kanye west, which is the celebrity thing that cut although this is we are, kind of headlines about this incident. you might remember that. where did kanye west publicist fit into all this? the way it actually resolved, and what you should know, ahead of miss system one in tomorrow's hearing, is that we

here on this show, actually, later determines that that woman who showed on rudy ruby freeman's doorstep, had been dispatched by a campaign operative for trump. and that woman claimed to -- she was so freaked out after months of threats and harassment, that while she said she was willing to talk with this person, she said she would only agree to do so at the local police station. that was the only place she felt safe meeting this random stranger, and, so she went and met with her at the police station. and because it was at the police station, but of their meeting was caught on a police body cam, which reuters obtained. and this is a part of that meeting, which is edited and subtitled by reuters. >> thank you. >> no problem. >> i. >> good evening, how are you? >> thank you so much for agreeing to meet with. us. we didn't want to frighten you,

but we had to find you within this timeframe. >> we would like to let you know first and foremost, we have put in placement away to move you, to secure you, from what may be authorized over the next 48 hours. we have probably 48 hours in which to move you. we would do it on your schedule. >> i cannot say what specifically will take place. i just know that it will disrupt your freedom and -- >> the freedom of one or more of your family members. >> we didn't want to frighten you, but we have to find you within this timeframe. we put in place a way to move you to secure you from what may be authorized over the next 48 hours. i can't say specifically what will take place. i just know it will disrupt your freedom and the freedom of one or more members of your family. or more membit's january 4th, td says she is gonna put ruby

freeman on the phone with somebody, quote very high-level. the authoritative powers to get to the protection that you need. protection from what? ruby freeman told reuters that once this other person, a man got on the phone with her, he and this woman who tried to come into her house to get hurt to talk to her but moving her because something terrible is going to happen to her within 48 hours. the man on the phone on that one at the police station with her tried to get her to admit to committing election fraud. ruby freeman said that the woman told her, quote if you don't tell everything and you are going to jail. now, what is important about this other than the bizarreness of it is that the quote, very high level guy who ruby freeman got on the phone with -- this person that supposedly could get ruby freeman protection overall is going to happen to. her she just confessed and otherwise she and a family member are more than one family member rob went to go to jail. it turns out that i worked for the trump campaign. he had been the paid executive

director of a trump campaign group called black voices for trump. he told us that he was the one that sent that woman through be freeman's house on january. claimed he was acting as a private citizen. he was no longer on the trump payroll. he also said that he personally never threatened mistreatment. he told reuters that he received calls from people offering ruby freeman immunity if she confessed to election fraud. he wouldn't say who those people were or on what authority they would've been able to offer her immunity. and immunity from? what would she be prosecuted for? she did not actually commit election fraud. but, again this all happened on january 4th. they keep giving her this deadline, right? by what she needs to, actually needs to. confessed he's going to get taken away, maybe they can move, or maybe they can keep are safe. and the 48-hour deadline. what was happening 48 hours from january 4th. why was it so important they get it confessed to election fraud? and within 48 hours of january 4th? well, for an eight hours later of course is january six.

that was when trump was planning to pressure mike pence into stopping the certification of biden's election win. and it would have of course been very handy to have a forced confession, a forced false confession of election fraud to point to that day as a reason to throw the georgia results. at least to delay certifying the because there was some kind of great new controversy in georgia. but exactly where they threatening ruby freeman with? well, as far as there being some sort to ruby freeman that would materialize 48 hours from january 4th. well, it did actually materialize. according to a lawsuit mistreatment filed against a right-wing website promoted false stories about her, 48 hours after that visit from the trump folks on january 6th. and while protests -- rioters were storming the capital in washington, a pro trump crowd also stormed her house. surrounded ruby freeman's house outside atlanta, shouting at her through a bullhorn. fortunately, nobody was hurt and she by then had already

fled her home for her safety. following the fbi's advice to do so. and of course, ruby freeman -- the 62-year-old election, worker grandmother from atlanta did not confess to some invented charge of election fraud. despite this implied threat, this dangle promise from people connected to the trump campaign that it would relieve the pressure on her and only then could they keep are safe. the harassment and the threats turned ruby freeman's life upside down. it turned her daughter samos's life upside down. it has been a total nightmare for them. they did nothing wrong. it is also still coming full circle. since then, the january six investigation has revealed not only that the claims about fraud and fulton county were false, but that trump was told in detail about the number of two -- at the u.s. justice department to the whole attack on that mother and daughter and atlanta, the whole suitcase full of

ballots claim were nonsense. we know that because we have tape from richard donahue, the number two official after bill barr left. we have tape of his deposition to the january six investigation. >> i said something to be effective, sir we have done nothing to the investigations hundreds of interviews, the major allegations are not supported by the evidence developed. we look at georgia, pennsylvania, michigan, nevada. we are doing our job and much of the info you are getting is false. i said, okay with regard to georgia we looked at the tape, we interviewed the witnesses and there is no suitcase. the president kept fixating on the suitcase it had ballots, the suitcases rolled out from under the table. and i said, no sir there is no suitcase. you can watch that video over and over. there is no suitcase. there is a wheeled ban where they carried the ballots and that is just how they move

ballots around that facility. there is nothing to suspicious about that at all. i told him that there was no multiple scanning of the ballots. it was allegations that they were taking, one ballot and scanning it through three, 45 times to rack up most presumably for vice president biden. they did not support that. he told them flat out that much of the information he was getting was false. and or it was just not supported by the evidence. we look at the allegations but they don't pan out. >> the number two official at the justice department told president trump personally, and in detail, this suitcase thing. this fantasy about some nefarious thing in fulton county georgia, but you have described to these women who have, name two you have six your supporters on to the point where they've been driven into hiding. at the advice of the fbi -- facing that you have been saying is not true. nothing that you are saying about that is true. ruby freeman and her daddy did

nothing wrong. here's just one last thing, i think this is also important heading into this part of the investigation that we are going to see tomorrow. you know, there has been all of this talk -- i participated in some of the stop. there is been a lot of discussion and commentary and speculation about what the intersection is by this january six investigation that we are seeing all these hearings from. and prosecution, the possible criminal prosecution of people who tried to pull off the scheme. that whole question just looms really large over all of these hearings, over everything the january six investigators have been revealing for the findings that these hearings. what we are going to see tomorrow, at tomorrow's hearing, this is the part where that is no longer a hypothetical discussion. this georgia stuff, the threats to the workers, the threats to the state workers they needed to make fake fraud, claims change the election results. that is already definitely under criminal investigation.

you don't have to speculate about what might happen if any prosecutor decided to look into that. prosecutors are looking into that. state prosecutors have panel the grand jury that is working and possible charges under state law. the matter is reportedly under criminal investigation by federal justice department -- as well. they've reportedly been interviewing georgian officials. the pressure on state election officials and election workers, also the forced fake slates of trump electors that they range from george and six of the states. those are parts of the trump thought that we already know are actively under criminal investigation by both federal and state prosecutors working with federal and state grand juries. that whole question about whether or not the january six investigation is looking at possible crimes but prosecutors are going to be interested in, what we are going to get into tomorrow's hearing is the part that is already happening. and what that means for this next hearing that we are going to have tomorrow, we don't yet know. it will be new.

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group of trump supporters in arizona and other swing states decided to proclaim themselves the true electors for the state, creating two sets of electors.

the official electors selected by the state and a group of fake electors. >> that was congresswoman liz cheney was vice chair of the january six investigation. that was some talking at the last hearing, previewing some of what we are going to expect next. it's what we are going to expect tomorrow. and the lead up to january six, as we have covered -- it's with the election results in their state. we also know there was another part of it, the trump campaign organized and ever to have seven states that trump lost. nevertheless, admitting fake slates of electors who would vote as if trump had won. even though trump had lost. the january six investigators have said that trump's own lawyers knew the fake elector plant was illegal, even while they were pushing it. they said that they have evidence of that and writing, i'm expecting that we will see the evidence of that tomorrow. by the january six investigation is not the only

body that is investigating the whole fake electors scheme. the department of justice, the u.s. department of justice also the district attorney's office in fulton county georgia, they are both investigating the fake election -- the fake electoral scheme along with the pressure of state officials to overthrow election results in that state. the attorney general of michigan has also said that she will criminally best to pay the fake scheme in michigan, a federal prosecutor didn't move forward with their investigation of it. here's a live question pressing on lawyers looking at this. tomorrow on the january six investigation lays out their case in public about the fake electors in about the state officials, does -- do they have to worry about how that might impact the existing criminal investigations? this isn't a hypothetical overlap of how prosecutors might be interested. we talk about tomorrow from this january six hearing in that investigation is actually

the part already know that they're active criminal investigations underway right now. does the committee have to worry about that or how will that affect with they're able to present? joining us now is a former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan, but look. right barbara, it is great to see you. thank you for being here. >> thank you, rachel is great to see. you >> is this the right question to ask, is this a relevant consideration for the committee tomorrow? >> it absolutely is, i think the committee has decided that they are just going to do their thing. they don't know the justice department is or isn't doing. so, they see their mission more broadly and appropriately as exposing the whole story of what happened here on january 6th. although, you'll notice that they do conveniently often say the statutory language of criminal statutes. liz cheney in particular will often bring the discussion in terms of federal statutes like corruptly obstructing a criminal proceeding. they're throwing plenty of hands to the justice department. that is to see if they can find violations a very specific

statutes that are on the bucs. it isn't enough to say that what trump did was profoundly undemocratic, which most certainly was. but does it fit any of the elements and these offenses? that is the, job it is different. when you have apparel investigation is very public, it can cloud or tend to undermine the own investigation. >> the minute that i found myself talking about the investigation into georgia officials being pressured by the president, depression election official. it is a crime under state law editor federal law. we know that brad raffensperger spent hours with the fulton county grand jury that is investigation that is a potential crime. we know just they spoke to the grand jury that is investigating this and grand jury. they're giving live junior six

investigation. is there anything about the public life testimony on the same topic that could screw up but they are doing a criminal court? >> it does worry me and one thing that prosecutors do benefit from is the element of surprise. grand river stations are conducted secretly and there's a reason there conducted secretly. one of the reasons is because i don't compromise by telling the whole world would it. is it allows other witnesses down the road to get their story straight in the lineup their stories consistent with what the other person said. not admitting too much. this is what they're looking into, but we will destroy these documents that we have. it could even invite witness tampering. somebody who didn't previously know about rusty powers are some of these other people. they might be inclined to do just with they did to the georgia election workers and show but the, door to offer the protection money. >> wow, barbara mackay former u.s. attorney that gives us a

whole new level of things to worry about. thank you, bye-bye appreciate it. thank you rachel. >> as we've seen in the last couple of, hearings individual members have led the questioning that let us through the evidence that we saw. we saw the congressman from california do that. we saw the congresswoman from -- another hearing, we will see that tonight for the intelligence committee. somebody who is no stranger to very, very high stakes congressman molly proceedings tomorrow. he'll be joining us live here next, stay with us. next, stay with us lemons, lemons. look how nice they are. the moment you become an expedia member, you can instantly start saving on your travels. so you can go and see all those, lovely, lemony, lemons. ♪

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more for congresswoman revealed that president trump knew his election fraud claims were false and congressman reveal the life-threatening pressure on vice president. prince tomorrow it will focus on the pressure of individual states that they should throw out there election results to send forged sets a fake trump electors. on the eve of that hearing tomorrow congress and made that shift a little show evidence of trump's personal involvement in the fake electoral plot. he is also saying tomorrow that

it will reveal new details of the white house staff mark meadows and their role in the thought in georgia. congressman schiff also said it remains a possibility that vice president pence could still be subpoenaed to testify. tell me more. joining us now is congressman and a -- member of the january six investigation, chairman of the house intelligence committee. sir, i know that this is a cramming night thank you for making time to be here. i really appreciate it. >> you bet. >> first, let me ask you for an on air fact-check. am i correct in telling our audience tonight that the focus tomorrow will largely be the pressure in individual states to overthrow their election results, including that bizarre set of forgeries and those fake trump director -- >> yes it is exactly right and i think that you set out the sequence in its right order. we heard the pressure campaign and that campaign put his life

in jeopardy, how it was premised on a completely unconstitutional theory and argument. and now you hear the pressure campaign directed at state legislator, state officials and local electoral workers putting their lives very much at risk. and this was really unprecedented in u.s. history. this brought effort to overturn an election. you will see just with the way to the presidency brought down on these officials. >> you told the l.a. times a little bit more about what to expect in terms of tomorrow. i was struck by the idea of trump's individual involvement in the fake electoral plot. i think as members of the public, members of the media watching these hearings one of the things that has been hard to discern is how much the president was initiating some of these ideas, how much the president was simply receptive

to any idea that might allow him to hold on to power. how much the president has been critical at all in terms of what he was being told. was the fake electoral plot something at the president took an active role in? was it carried out on his behalf by others? he knew about it but he didn't necessarily advanced himself. >> well, tomorrow will be showing some of the evidence of the presidents role in this whole scheme of pressuring state legislators to overturn the election. now, this scheme was illegitimate from the beginning. donald trump lost these steaks. the whole effort to pressure the state legislators was premised on a big lie. it was a massive fraud that didn't exist. they were trying to get these legislators to go into session and decertify the win for joe biden. they were certifying electors for him, sending these fake electors to washington. all of it was illegitimate. we will explore the role that

was played by the president by his campaign, by lawyers present some of the evidence that we have accumulated to explain how that plot to pressure these legislative officials took place. and what it did to turn their lives upside down. >> your former federal borough prosecutor itself, we are now venturing into the part of the committee's investigation. part of your findings is definitely a territory that we know is a subject of criminal investigation, both at the state level at least in georgia and at the federal level with deputy attorney general saying publicly that some of these matters are under federal investigation by justice department prosecutors. are you taking steps, do you need to take steps to make sure that both investigations, you are on the committee and that's happening in terms of the criminal law are insulated from one another another investigation does any harm to the other?

>> we are very conscious the fact that there are many other criminal investigations going on. there are other investigations going on. we want to make sure that yes, we are very careful that what we do does not interfere with what they are doing. and also that where they have a need for information, we can help and provide it. and look, we have an obligation for congress is barbara mcquade pointing out independent of the justice department rather prosecutors. that is to protect our democracy and our institutions. we couldn't very well sit for a year and a half and not investigate an attack on the legislative branch. so the work that we are doing is very important. we hope that it will be of great value for the american people. we are doing everything that we can to make sure that we are complimentary to the efforts of the justice department or other prosecutorial agencies and not in conflict. >> one last question for you sure, i know that you're not going to talk about individual

negotiations around individual witness testimony. but should the public expect that it is a real possibility that vice president pence may end up in that witness chair? that of course would be a qualitatively different moment in terms of public accountability here. is that a live possibility? >> i don't know how to gauge the likelihood. he is someone that we have expressed interest in want to talk to. there are others, some very high-profile some not so high profile that we continue to have an interest in. it's whether we can get them before the committee, at this point i can't say. we are continue to encourage frankly anyone with relevant information to come forward. we have been the beneficiary of many great tips from the american people. and this creative witness that we see appearing before the congress. you also see it tomorrow. >> vice president, pence

calling the tip line. congressman adam schiff, democratic member of the january six investigation and share the intelligence committee. sir, good luck tomorrow. we all will be watching, thank you. >> thank you. >> again the hearing is at 1 pm eastern, that is when we will be starting at. live will be recapping it at 8 pm eastern. all right, we'll be right. back stay with us. stay with us. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling. hiv pills aren't on my mind. a quick change in my plans is no big deal. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away.

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no. and ivo to remain a no isn't based on any evidence, it is not based on any facts. it's only based on my gut and my gut feeling and my own intuition. and that is all that i need to base my vote on the elections right there. >> it isn't based on the evidence, it's not based on a facts, who needs them? that was a county commission meeting in otero county, new mexico this past friday. county commissioners meant to certify the results of recent elections. elections in which there were no complaints of fraud or irregularities at all. as we reported on the show last week, republicans were threatening that they would not certify the election results because something, something donald trump, rudy giuliani, something, something. not really based on any facts, just bad feelings. on friday, the state supreme court new mexico ordered the -- to drop the nonsense and

certify the elections. they did by 2 to 1 vote. they want no vote was that disembodied voice that you heard in that meeting on friday, saying he was still voting no. it was not because of any facts. the reason he isn't disembodied voice at that meeting is because he had a phone into that meeting in d.c.. he was in d.c. because he was being sentenced by federal judge for his part of the january 6th attack. so, that is how it worked out no terrell county. court ordered, but gouging agreement. but look at this, look at what happened that same day into other counties in new mexico. >> as officials and other counties certified their own primary elections. >> you may not push us out of a meeting. we need to be heard. >> i am going -- we can continue this on their own, if you would like to leave,

so this is your only warning. >> who elected you? >> i'm calling the vote. commissioner, yes. -- >> cowards and traitors. cowards! traders! >> cowards! [inaudible] >> your legacy is like this. >> you should have been like otero county. >> you should have been like otero county. again, no complaint of fraud or irregularities in these. just don't certify election results anymore. i mean what happened in otero county for all its consciousness was the first over act that we have, seen taken by republican dominated elections body to nullify election results just in the basis of fact free trumpian extremism. just a matter of trump principle. that happened in otero county

last week. but seeing other counties facing the same pressure, it is a clear and dark side of where things are headed. this is not the same as angry conservatives showing up to complain at a local school board meeting arizonian committee. this is, don't certify election results anymore. this is an organized, anti-small d democratic movement in our country pushing to nullify all election results. it is spreading, it has started. watch this space. ♪ limu emu ♪ and doug. ♪ harp plays ♪ only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. (emu squawks) if anyone objects to this marriage, speak now or forever hold your peace.

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january 6th investigation holds its next hearing. msnbc's special coverage starts at noon eastern tomorrow. and i will help host a primetime recap of tomorrow's hearing at 8 pm eastern. you should also know that we're gonna have a special edition of this show, wednesday night, right here live at 9 pm. it's of these, big week ahead. i'll see you tomorrow, 8 pm eastern. now it's tim