tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> it has affected my life in ma major way, in every way all because of lies. >> if the most powerful person in the world can bring the full weight of the presidency down on an ordinary citizen, who among us is safe? none of us is, none of us. >> the human beings who became targets of trump owes relentless effort to overturn the election. the threat and the slander that

ripped their lives apart, their devastating personal stories were revealed today in the most emotional january 6th hearing yet. plus, new details on trump's highly illegal campaign to pressure state elections officials to install fake electors. just a few hours ago the house select committee investigating the january 6th insurrection laid out in clear terms just how broad donald trump's thirst for power and how deep his acceptance for violence really went. the committee outlined how trump knew he had lost but plowed ahead anyway with a plan to get what he wanted. part that have plan included a cordnated campaign of harassment where he and his allies repeatedly bullied state elections officials in key battleground states to reject ballots outright while also targeting local election officials with unfounded claims of fraud. privately he and his allies led by an unmoored rudy giuliani hounded officials while publicly waging a smear campaign fueled with lies that led to a wave of

violent threats across the country. when these legislators refused to break the law and bend the knee. he upped the public intimidation campaign and even exposed their contact information. at his disposal was a massive and devoted following who served as his foot soldiers, a following that had already demonstrated their thirst for mayhem. >> you're a threat to democracy. you're a threat to free and honest elections! >> we love america. and we love our rights and our freedom. >> you're a tyrant, a felon and you must turn yourself in immediately. >> we don't know what's going -- the uncertainty of that was the fear. like are they coming with guns, or are they going to attack my house? >> all of my personal information was doxxed online. it was my personal email, my

personal cell phone, my home phone number. in fact, we had to disconnect our home phone for about three days because it would ring all hours of the night. >> rusty bauers, the republican and arizona house speaker refused to break the law for trump and this is how he was rewarded. >> we have various groups come by and they have had video panel trucks with videos of me proclaiming me to be a pedophile and a pervert and a corrupt politician. >> some of these threats of violence were reported in realtime. despite all of that is correct the pressure campaign continued as georgia became a central focus for trump and his allies because the recount -- because of the recount there. gabriel sterling, a georgia election official, had this prescient warning at the time as they were receiving death threats. >> somebody is going to get

hurt. somebody is going to get shot. someone is going to get killed, and it's not right. >> but his warning fell on deaf ears. his boss, brad raffensperger, testified that his family also fell victim to the threats. >> i was getting texts all over the country, and then eventually my wife started to get texts, and hers typically came in as sexualized texts which were disgusting. >> what was most depraved about this pressure campaign led by trump and rudy giuliani to try to overturn the election with the attack on innocent civic-minded americans like election workers. >> earlier in the day of ruby freeman and shane freeman morris and one other gentleman surreptitiously passing around usb ports as if they are vials of heroin or cocaine. it's obvious to anyone who is a criminal investigator or prosecutor, they are involved in

surreptitious illegal activity. >> miles of heroin or cocaine. for the record none that have is true. this is shane moss, a state election effort, who became fodder to overturn the election at any cost. >> i've always been told by my grandmother how important it is to vote and how people before me, a lot of people, older people, my family did not have that right, so what i loved most about my job were the older voters. >> and this is what was left of her life after they were done with her. >> they have turned my life upside down. i no longer give out my business card. i don't traps fer calls. i don't want anyone knowing my name. i don't want to go anywhere with my mom because she might yell my

name out over the grocery aisle or something. >> her mom, lady ruby as she's known in the community, also fell victim to the president's lies. >> there is no where i feel safe, nowhere. do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states to target you, the president. united states is supposed to represent every american, not to target one, but he targeted me, lady ruby, a small business owner, a mother, a proud american citizen. >> joining me now is former senator claire mccaskill of missouri and the senior columnist for bloomberg opinion and erin haines. erin, i'm going to start with you. lady ruby went on to say i don't

feel safe any, and i want to palau one more thing that her daughter said. this is her daughter shaye moss describing how even her grandmother was targeted. >> i felt horrible. i felt like it was all my fault, like if i would have never decided to be an elections worker, like i could have -- i have done anything else and that's what i decided to do and now people are lying and spreading rumors and lies and attacking my mom. i'm her only child. >> she's talking about an attempt to make it, quote, unquote, citizen's arrest at her grandmother's house and how people were knocking on her grandmother's dore and the grandmother called her and said don't open the door. citizen's arrest in georgia where you're from sound like a lynching party to me. this is the price that people like shaye moss and her mom paid for being good citizens.

your thoughts? >> yeah, i mean, joy, i think what you have just done such a great job of recapping what we focused on also in our story that's up right now on 19thnews.org is the human toll of the big live. you have two veteran election workers who once considered their service a badge of honor, and then they found themselves being tainted as corrupt, being painted as incompetent to their fellow americans. they didn't sign up for this. you know, mentioned that i was born and raised in fulton county, where i was registered to involvement watching shaye moss, she and rube ed freeman looks like every poll worker that greeted me when i cast my ballot. they welcomed me to the polls and helped me participate in democracy and basically a fixture of the franchise and i look forward to greeting and thanking them every single time that i vote. shaye moss talked about her grandmother who told her about the value of voting and then became a target of the mob, and

shaye talked about how she didn't blame the mob. she blamed herself for what was happening to her mother and bennie thompson, the chairman of the committee, himself a lifelong defender of voting rights who is the one who had to apologize to her for how she and her per and grandmother were treated, and speaking of mississippi, mississippi was on my mind watching this hearing. joy, i don't have to tell you 58 years ago that for people were murdered for trying to register voters on that fateful day on june 21st. sense has opinion used before in our country about who can participate in democracy. historically we know it's been biased. lady ruby and her daughter have cost their standing in the community, their good names and freedom to move throughout town

without fear. what does the country owe people? this happened on their watch. brad raffensperger is on the ballot this year and ryan and shaye won't be working at the polls for the first time. >> shaye said i felt horrible, like it was all my fault. i never would have decided to be an elections worker. i could have done anything else but this is what i decided to do and now people are lying and spreading rumors and i a tacking my mom. i'm her only child. as someone who has been an elected official. it's the opposite of being in a democracy. we want people like shaye moss and her mom to be election officials. they are the root of our democracy. >> i think shaye and her more put the human toll in front of the american people. the human toll of donald trump's efforts to overturn the will of the american people. to me it was the most

compelling, now, rusty bowers was very powerful. >> did you notice that trump was so freaked out about rusty bowers and what he was going to testify, to he felt the need to lie about him immediately before the hearing. >> that's right. >> which i thought was a real tell that trump knows these hearings are powerful in the presentation of evidence, so i -- i think that shaye and her mother will go down in history. she got the profile in courage award this year from the kennedy institute. she deserved it. i think they will go down in history as examples of the abuse of power and the painful result of that in people's lives that are merely doing the right thing. >> yeah. >> it was really -- it was powerful stuff. >> it was powerful stuff. >> i don't know if we played the right sound bite before. can we play son bite one. the skrimpingts attempted citizen's arrest. sound bite one. >> she called me screaming at

the top of her lungs, shaye, shaye, oh, my gosh, shaye just freaking me out saying that there were people at her home and they -- you know, they knocked on the door and, of course, she opened it and seeing who was there, who it was, and they just started pushing their way through claiming that they were coming in to make a citizen's arrest. >> i mean, tim, you know drew. you've dealt with him i think we've all been targeted by him, recipients. trump attack tweet wand we know what that unleash eds. this is the continued abuse of this woman and her family. weeks after the 2020 election a chicago publicist for hip hop artist kanye west who was a trump supporter traveled to the home of ruby freedom, a froigtened election worker of being falsely accused of

wrongdoing. how do you think trump received hearing these women testify against him today? >> oh, i don't think he cares. you know, donald trump is craven enough and unhinged enough and he revels in violence and racism to the extent that all of this to him seems a logical outcome of people not doing what he wants, so i don't think we have to look at whether or not donald trump will be chastened by any of this because he won't be. he has to be held accountable are and i think one of the important things about today's hearings, is all of them and the themes in the hearings are not new. we've seen them in the media and talked about them for a long time but each of the hearings are doing important things. they are filling in the fact pattern that real matters from a

prosecutorial standpoint and it reminds us today of the human government of violence and lawlessless. we canned see he's a civilized country if someone working as an election in a low-level position cannot go shopping and cannot keep her job because donald trump feelsed abused, and we saw all of this obviously with brad raffensperger and dusty as well. the different there is they have resources to protect themselves that someone like shaye moss doesn't. >> yeah. >> at the end of the hearing liz cheney said something to the effect is our institutions are only as strong as the individuals who to fend them. >> yeah. >> and if we don't protect those individuals and don't make it safe for those individuals to be american citizens and american workers and speak their minds as

americans then we have failed as a country and people like trump's fascism and racism gets empowered. >> aaron, it's true. brad raffensperger has security because of his job. his daughter-in-law doesn't and his daughter-in-law had a home invasion where she's a widow with young children. we're talking about physical menacing of elected officials but even worse as tim points out of people like shaye moss who have no protection whatsoever. her mom had to leave her home, had to move out of her home. i mean, what does this portend for 2022? know you're doing a lot of work on what's going to happen in georgia. there's big elections that trump really cares about coming up in that state. what's the mood? what's the temperature down there going forward? >> yeah, i mean, january 6th to your point could also have been a dark day for shaye moss' mother had she not left the house as the officials advised her to do on that day because

there could have been violence at her home that day. you know, i think the -- what this means going forward, again, shaye moss and ruby freeman will not be poll workers in upcoming elections because of the chilling effect this had on her and on every other election worker shown in that video that was played during today's hearing. she said none of those people are still working in elections in georgia as a result of what happened to them. what is that going to mean for poll workers going forward, most of whom we know are women. many of whom we know are women of color who want to help defend democracy. what does this mean for the organizers and volunteers who tried to help to turn out people. what they can expect to meet at precincts where we know that republicans are strategizing to show up that could be an intimidating presence for some people. listen, life as ruby and shaye knew, it after the 2020 election they will never look at this country and their role in

democracy again because there was no persuasion campaign for emthis, only pressure. >> tim, we now know, we did a piece yesterday with ben collins and a really great author. we now know that the republican party and the trumpist wing of the party which is i guess the party now, they have the proud boys on call. they have got plans to follow people to their cars. you've had proud boys even pressure republicans and intimidate them. they essentially have brown shirts this time. what does this mean for 2022 from your point of view? >> well, it means that we have to focus very clearly on what it means to live in a country that has the rule of law and whatever smokescreen, their diversion, critics of the hearings are laying down to defend trump and his actions, at the end of the day it comes down to a very clear issue. trump broke the law and trump should be held accountable for it. trump has used violence and other tools at his dispose al to continue to try to corrupt the law and corrupt democracy, and if we didn't have brave public

servants like brad raffensperger or rift bowers who put their physical well-being at risk and did the right thing legally and morally, we'd be in a lot of trouble, and i don't think we can expect to see any of that from trump or the people who support him and his party. >> my question is would raffensperger do it again? if he gets back in office will he stand up for the law and be too intimidated? >> thank you very much. senator mccaskill staying with me next. coming up next, trump's push to find votes in georgia and his pressure campaign to do so. "the reidout" continues after this. so

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for just $49.99 a month for 24 months with a 2 -year price guarantee. call today. >> the horrific threats of violence against election officials and workers in georgia stemmed in part from a conspiracy theory about alleged fake ballots stuffed in suitcases. rudy giuliani's so-called smoking gun. at today's hearing that baseless claim was thoroughly debunked. georgia elections figure gabriel

sterling showed counters moving ballots the money day way on carts and georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger shut down the former president's claims of election fraud including the claims of thousand of dead voters. >> mr. secretary, is there any way you could have lawfully changed the result in the state of georgia and somehow explained it away as a recalculation? >> no. the numbers are the numbers. the numbers don't lie. we had many al cautions, and we investigate every single one of them. >> today's hearing once again showed that donald trump now his claims were bogus, have been told repeatedly by members of his own justice department but he continued to make conspiracy theories a central part of his pressure campaign towards georgia election officials including a call with the chief elections investigator who he asked to do whatever you do and added this. >> do you think they will be working after christmas, to keep

it going for us, because, you know, we have that date of the 6th which is a very important date. >> reporter: today's date outlined new information about white house chief of staff's intimate role of pressuring officials saying meadows wanted to send the investigators a bunch of maga swag before white house staff intervened. meadows also texted or calls brad raffensperger's office 18 times to set up the infamous call on january 2nd asking rafns got into the pressure call. >> why wouldn't you want to find the right answer instead of keep saying that the numbers are right? look, can you get together tomorrow. and, brad, we just want the truth. the real truth is that i won by 100,000 votes as least. what are we going to do dow

here? i only need 11,000 votes. i only need 11,000 votes. give me a break. >> joining me now, back with me now is former senator claire mccaskill and joining us as well is a former u.s. attorney and professor of law. i want to bring in this sound bite with gabriel sterling trying to compete with the deluge of trump's lies >> it was like a shovel trying to emptying the ocean. it was frustrating. i even had family members who i had to argue with about some of these things. i remember one specific attorney that we know that we showed him walking through this wasn't true, okay. i get that. this wasn't true. okay i get that. five or six things but at the end he goes i know in my heart they cheated. >> you're from mize ms. so i'm guessing you know people that were like those family members. i want commenting in the break and wanted you to comment on air

is the reason why you don't have rp -- the reason why these hearings are so effective is because you don't have the counter narrative from like the screaming jim jordan. >> kevin mccarthy screwed up. >> he did. >> first they walked away from a bipartisan commissiony. the witnesses testified voted for trump. >> we want to establish. you wanted trump to win. >> all of them. >> with the exception of police officers, we don't know what they were, and shaye and her mother. everybody else. >> yeah. >> were republicans so even if they have republicans on that committee, i would put rusty bowers up against a jim jordan. i think jim jordan would have a tough time with rusty bowers because he knows who he is, why he did what he did an most importantly what he emphasized and i can't say this enough,

everybody, please, remember, there's no evidence of fraud. they had -- everybody asked them show me the evidence, give me the names, courts, show me the evidence, give me the names, they had nothing. in fact, today we timely heard rudy giuliani, i got theories, i don't have evidence. well, duh, that's pretty obvious right now. that's why this is so criminal what they did. >> barbara, you are the haddadi who goes into court, claire is a former prosecutor as well. let me play rudy giuliani. his name has been called. that is phone call he made actually to pennsylvania house speaker bryan cutler. take a listen. >> mr. speaker, this is rudy giuliani and jenna ellis. we're calling you together because we'd like to discussion, obviously, the election. hey, brian, it's ride. i real very something important to call to your attention that i think really changes things. i understand that you don't want to talk to me now. i just want to bring some facts to your attention and talk to you as a fellow republican.

>> stalking. cair, when you put together that 67-minute long call between raffensperger and trump where he essentially threatens him, can a joelz him, begs him to give him the votes and rudy giuliani, his lawyer, who is relentlessly calling other elections official and. eastman pressure, what do you see in terms of conspiracy coming out of that? >> i think you said -- >> you think you said claire. >> you mean barbara. >> you know, my brian is fried. >> got two prosecutors. >> barbara, my dear. >> sure, i'll take a stab at that. one of the things you keep hearing rudy giuliani saying which i find interesting is we're all republicans here. we're trying to create this bon ami and we're on on the same side, we're all a team, happy brother here and as we heard from rusty bowers i need evidence. i'm not going to violate my oath just because it feels good, and

so it does seem that -- rudy giuliani still has some left in republican circles so he's making these overtures to try to get people to play ball despite his complete absence of evidence, and what is so disturbing is that exchange that we heard from gabriel sterling where he said even an attorney friend of his, when all of the evidence was debuenninged, yeah, i still feel in my heart that he cheated. that's the power of dissnfgs is that once people get an idea in their head it's hard to move them off that have. >> were you surprised, barbara, that we didn't hear about the same thing being done by one south carolina senator lindsey graham because we know he was doing it, too? >> yeah. this is a curious omission, isn't because we've heard some evidence of that. i don't know. i think that the committee here has to be very careful politically and maybe choosing its battles shrewdly.

i would hike to hear what he said if they have evidence about that, but sometimes each when you have good evidence of some things it could be a distraction from the bigger picture there. may be some reasons why they didn't present that. i'm very curious to know what that information is. maybe we'll their up in oomg hearings. today was the day because it did fit with the theme of reaching out to states, particularly georgia, to get them to overturn the election results. >> the insider scoops and what people are saying. ron johnson's name was called today. we didn't hear lindsey graham's name called, but we definitely are hearing andy biggs' name, we're hearing and starting to get a better sense of how lawmakers were involved? >> mike low has been pulled into

some of these hearings. certainly you've got ted cruz on the periphery wannabe and lindsey was involved in talking to the folks in georgia. you know, i think that barbara is right. i think this committee is doing a very smart thing. they are presenting discreet piles of evidence this translate that a sprawling conspiracy to fraudulently over unthe will of the american people. this is power in cumulative evidence. give me a good case rather than -- they have people is an incredible amount of evidence. find me 11,000 votes. all the this started even before

the election. we heard that too, that some of this was before the talk even occur. i'm just telling you, i think that merrick garland, you talk about building pressure. they are putting down evidence that's building pressure. >> absolutely. what did the judge call it a coup in search of a fan. >> two great prosecutors and two great ladies. up next, georgia election workers and officials weren't the only ones subject to trump pressure. that's next. and pressure that's next. th an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems,

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today's hearing showed that not only was the trump campaign working to overturn the election but that sitting members of congress were aiding and abetting that effort. >> text messages exchanged between republican party officials in wisconsin showed that on january 4th the trump campaign asked for someone to fly their fake electors document to washington. a staffer for wisconsin senator ron johnson texted a staffer for vice president pence just minutes before the beginning of the jointception this. staffer state that had senator johnson wished to hand deliver to the vice president the fake electors votes from michigan and wisconsin. >> senator johnson's spokesperson tweet that had he had no involvement in the creation of those electors and no another knowledge it would be delivered noting that it was his new chief of staff who contacted

pence's office. we also learned that on the morning of january 6th the arizona congressman andy biggs called arizona congressman rusty bowers asking him to decertified the electors coming after john eastman called bowers the day before with the same ask telling him to decertify the votes now and let the courts sort it out later. bowers' testimony today was a compelling glimpse of a man who stood his ground despite being pressured for money. here's how he described a call from trump and rudy giuliani right after the election. >> he said we've got lots of theories. we just don't have the evidence, and i don't know if that was a gaffe or maybe he didn't think through what he said, but both myself and others in my group, the three in my group and my counsel, both remembered that specifically and afterwards we kind of laughed about it. >> bowers stressed multiple times today that he had sworn an oath to uphold the constitution, that he wouldn't disregard that oath for conspiracy theories.

here's how he concluded his testimony reading from a diary entry he wrote in december of 2020. >> i may in the eyes of men not hold correct opinions or act according to their vision or convictions, but i do not take this current situation in a light manner, a fearful manner or a vengeful manner. i do not want to be a winner by cheating. i will not play with laws i swore aloge answer to. >> joining me no is david henderson, former civil rights attorney and prosecutor. thanks for being here. david, i thought that this man's testimony was actually really power. if he was very much a republican. he made it very clear because he was asked like all the rest of them, you're a conservative republican, you wanted trump to win, yes, i did. very religious man. let me play a little bit about that. he talked about his faith a lot. take a look. >> it is a tenet of my faith

that the constitution is divinely inspired. of my most basic foundational beliefs, and so for me to do that because somebody just asked me to is foreign to my very being. i will not do it. >> i know -- i know that this is not a peru, but if it, how great who it be to have a witness like that? >> i mean, joy, he's a great witness hemp's a great witness to start with for reasons you've already been discussing. i've got no love for him overall in terms of his ultimate point of view. he said it himself. he was a supporter of trump and went along with everything until he was asked to do something that he said i can't do. that's what gives him credibility in the context of this hearing and he didn't even get to how trump tried to strong arm him. >> and threaten him. he absorbed a lot of threats to this for people who were basically in the same base.

>> this is a phone call from a trump campaign staffer because here's where -- the other thing we got out other than the emotion and the news about the threats and all of the sort of context how much people were threatened was just how much this was tied directly to the trump campaign. here's a trump campaign staffer pushing for these new slates of fake electors. >> hi, representative. my name is angela mccullum. calling from trump headquarters in washington, d.c. >> rona mcdaniel testified that the republican national committee, tied very much to the president, was asked by one of trump's aides in late 2020 to help gather contingent electors in case any of the legal challenges that were ongoing changed the result of the slates. my understanding is that the campaign did take the lead and we were just helping them in that role. how important is it to establish

that this was a part and parcel of the trump campaign's strategy? >> you know. i think it's critical for proving what they knew about what they were do, but you know what, we've bogged this down so much in legalese that we lose track of it for being the hustle that it was, and before these hearings began judge carter out of california produced an opinion establishing that trump was already guilty of a couple of crimes. one of them does not require you to prove that he knew what he was doing is wrong and i don't want that to get lost in the discussion. that's for disrupting an, official. the information regarding his campaign is relevant because it shows what they knew, when they knew and it how aware they were of how wrong it was what they were trying to do. >> andy biggs' name game up, arizona senator was trying to pressure rusty bowers to go

along with it and he's also cited by alley alexander and paul gosar as alexander, the person who organized the stop the steal real, he named andy biggs, too. if you're end biggs and some of the members of congress, old people hike ron johnson, do you lawyer up? >> that's the advice to follow, joy. are you better get yourself a very good lawyer, and with the way that the proceed having gone so far. if we don't make it necessary for them to lawyer up, we lose our values as a nation because we ever ear saying if you are ruch enough or powerful enough we won't come after you. >> what message would it send in terms of the rule of law, all of it, we really have a strong case that trump orchestrated, prapd and even if it meant violence to stay in office regardless of the lawful votes.

this in addition is to get the information out. if he gets away with it, what then? >> joy, understand that i understood these hearings familiar with what's in the record and court files. what's likely to surprise me is going town fold what i already know. i've actually been floored by what i've seen. >> same. >> especially today with how they went after shaye moss and her mom are and i think that if you don't do something based on the evidence we have heard thus far, what you're saying is we're not going to do the right thing when doing the right thing is just too hard, and that's real difficult to stomach in a culture that values fighting against impossible odds. >> yeah less. >> especially when it's the right thing to do. >> there should be cops consequences for people who busted into shaye moss' house trying to make a so-called arrest and people went after raffensperger's daughter. david henderson, thank you.

>> it looks like the maga crowd has found their patsy in attorney john eastman. they are getting ready to throat author of the coup memo all the way under the bus. we'll be right back. memo all t way under the bus. 'll be right back. announcer: type 2 diabetes? discover the power of 3 in the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. announcer: ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it.

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did the trump legal team ask you to prepare a memorandum regarding the electoral vote count on january 6th? >> yes. >> dr. eastman, did you advise

the president of the united states, the vice president to reject electors from seven states to declare that the president had been re-elected? >> yes. >> yeah. president had been re-e? >> yes. >> yeah. -- >> fifth, fifth, fifth. >> 100. that's when he was asked by the genesis committee. considering that he was pushing a plot to overturn the 2020 election, and even he admitted privately that he was illegal. continuing to do so even on the ellipse in person on january 6th. >> and all we are demanding the vice president pence is this afternoon at 1:00, he let the legislatures of the state look into this, so we can get to the bottom of it, and the american people whether we have control of the direction of our government or not. >> i bet he regrets that now. as we learned last week, just days after the insurrection, eastman, the guy who was standing next to him right there, seeking part pardon from

trump. perhaps it shouldn't be too surprising that trump and his columns are looking to make eastman their guy for the filth quota. two people familiar with the matter told rolling stone that in recent weeks, trump has complied to people close to him, that this is no reason to publicly defend eastman. and another telltale sign that trump is prepared to throw eastman under the bus. rolling stone ads that trump has repeated an excuse the often uses when backed into a corner, as investigators confronted him with an associate misdeeds. he barely knows eastman. joining me now, rolling stone senior politics reporter who broke the story, it's good to see you. it's been a long time. let me just throw up this tweet, because john eastman, here he is, you cite this in your article in 2019, calling him a brilliant constitutional royal lawyer, and he was very excited at the time eastman said that mueller should have never been appointed. how is this guy authored the whole the whole plan, ending up thrown under the bus? >> well, because somebody has to be sacrificed, right?

especially when there's this much of potential criminal exposure when there's this level of scandal these many lawsuits and investigations somebody has to be given up and you talk to people who are still operating at the upper ranks and the upper tiers of trump world, and in trump's current political circle, you will probably find that john eastman does not have that many fronts at all, even less so than someone might be asked comparatively radioactive as say, rudy giuliani. so, as you alluded to at the top of the segment, in your reporting, we found that trump -- he sees no need to talk about john eastman in public. in fact, he is very annoyed at eastman nowadays, due to all the negative attention and negative press coverage, and his efforts protracted. and trump over the past year or so, has been repeatedly biased

by his lawyers, and some of his top advisers, and it shouldn't even bring up eastman's name. and you should definitely avoid seeing him, if the opportunity, whatever, arise, just because they're scooped by potential criminal exposure that this guy has brought down the pocket. now, just to be very clear, eastman is only doing what he was doing, in service of donald trump, because trump told him to. and he was coordinating directly in very closely with donald trump, while trump was mayor of the free world. so, when you say, someone working in trump orbit right now, who says, oh, this guy is bad news, whatever happens to him happens to him, it is impossible to have a good faith objective standpoint, to implicate john eastman, and aiming without implicating, and who was of course then president trump. >> so that is what confuses me about this. because you know, the reporting and what we've seen come out of this committee has been very clear, that eastman, from beginning to end, right up until january 6th, when you saw

him actually speaking at the ellipse, and on phone calls, and talking to pence's top legal adviser, he was the person who was the most intimately involved besides giuliani. are people in trump world not concerned that he might flip on them and go to the justice department, and turn states evidence? >> some people will do that, but this is something you've seen throughout this past several years of trumpism, and whatever donald trump -- obviously, while he was president, it's wrapped up in scandal, where he offers more than he can show. not to use a very clinical term, narcissistic to be worried about too many people. he does from time to time, but it's strangely not something where he operates as if it is a top tactical concern. and that is just been a feature of his presidency, and of his post presidency. >> i'm out of time, so here is

mark love it, who i think is part of eastman's on board, saying -- >> how many lawyers the trump half? he had several. some said, yes, some said no. and john eastman has turned into the fall guy. he's a lawyer, is an advocate for the president, and whether you agree with his legal judgment, his legal findings or not, it's what lawyers do. >> any word, and it reporting that eastman is aware he is being thrown under the bus, it might be willing to do something back? >> well, he reached out for comment on this story before it ran, asking if you would like to weigh in. and he didn't, we didn't hear back from him. look, this is something that you can read the tea leaves, without being behind the scenes, implicating himself. that's the reason that a guy like john eastman would be --

>> and he supposedly very smart lawyer, john eastman. asawin suebasaeng, great reporting. thank you very much. that is tonight's read up. to go anywhere, i'll be back with my colleagues and friends, rachel maddow, nicole wallace, chris hayes, lawrence o'donnell, ari melber, stephanie ruhle. the teams getting back together for a recap of today's dramatic generous expiring. stay with us. of today's dramati generous expiring. stay with us there's a different way to treat hiv. it's every-other-month, injectable cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete hiv treatment you can get every other month.

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day four. the former president has lost the reelection. he goes to officials from his own party in states that he lost. tells them to throw out the results. >> you're asking me to do something against my old, and i will not break michael. >> the former presidents personal involvement in