but the gun lobby had been incredibly effective for 30 years in stopping the passage of a federal prohibition on trafficking. because they knew that ultimately that was gonna make it a lot harder for this illegal flow of guns that makes a lot of money for these guys. this is a big deal. >> senator chris murphy of connecticut, thank you very much for joining us tonight. that is all in on this wednesday night. the rachel maddow show starts tonight. day night. the rachel mad>> thanks to you e joining us this hour, happy to have you here. it is a very simple progression. the bottom line, it is still not easy to figure out how this is all going to end, ultimately. but in terms of where we are now, it is easy, it is very, very, logical injury far-right figure out where we are in this story. because these are the questions that we now know to ask. question number one, was illegal? if the answer is, yes it was illegal, the next question is, did they know it was illegal? if the answer was yes they knew

it was illegal, the next question is, did they try to pull it off anyway? if the answer to that is yes they try to pull it off anyway, my next personal question is always, well when they try to pull it off was it occasionally hilarious? [laughs] whether or not the answer that is yes, then next obvious question is, did they get caught? and then of course the final question is, will they get in trouble for it? that is pretty simply where we are. and sort of how we know how to orient ourselves in this ongoing saga which will be, you know, our generation story in american history. was illegal? did they know? did they do it anyway? was it ridiculous when they did? did they get caught? will they get in trouble? now, the answer to all the first five questions, we now know, is yes. it's only that last one that is

uncertain. but in this particular part of the plot to overthrow the u.s. government, i didn't really expect to be talking about this is our lead story tonight. it surprised me as much as a surprise anyone today than we learn that the fbi started showing up at all these guys houses today. today of all days. and so that makes it our lead story. here we are. but let's get to it. you might have seen the headline today about the january 6th investigators changing up their plans for the next hearings. there is still hearing plan for tomorrow, that's the one about them, the trump folks trying to put people involved in the plot to overthrow the election in charge at the justice department. specifically so they could use the justice department to help overthrow the government. that next hearing is still on for tomorrow, as planned. it starts at 3 pm, eastern time. and of course tomorrow night at 8:00 eastern, we'll doing our special primetime recap of that hearing.

that is still on. but we had expected that after that hearing tomorrow they would do the rest of the hearings next week. the january 6th investigators said explicitly they plan to do all of their hearings in june. they plan to be done with all the hearings in this calendar month. that is no longer the plan. apparently since they have started showing the public with they've turned up in their investigation, and these blockbuster hearings, that it had millions of americans watching everyone, apparently that have opened the floodgates. they now say they have received so much new evidence, just since the hearing started. that they need time to incorporated into the findings. and so, yes there is still there 3 pm hearing tomorrow, but then no hearings after that for a few weeks. after tomorrow, they are going to pick back up with them only starting, apparently, maybe mid july. so what is all this new evidence that they are getting? that is caused him to make this very big changes schedule?

and decide to extend these hearings much deeper into the summer? well, in terms of what we know they have received, or at least what they told us they have received its new, political was first to report yesterday that the trump family apparently had arranged for a documentary filmmaker to closely shadow them. including the president, starting in september, 2020 through the election in november, 2020 and then thereafter, as the president refused to recognize the results of the election, as he plotted to overthrow the government and stay in power anyway, right through january 6th itself, and even after january 6th. toward the inauguration. a british documentary filmmaker and his crew, they were apparently with president trump and his adult children throughout that time. learning that, the january 6th investigation subpoenaed that documentary filmmaker for basically all of his relevant raw footage. he released a statement yesterday saying, he has hired

a lawyer and he is cooperating with the committee. the upshot as they apparently are getting everything from him. rolling stone was first reported the trump white house officials did not know that guy was doing this film. trump white house official did know the trumps have allowed this to happen. or that they had all set for interviews with this guy, let alone around the events of january 6th. which itself is amazing that the white house, more broadly, did not know. that people did not sign off. that this was the trump family project? but that footage, what's down from the subpoena like a lot of footage, is part of the new material the january six investigators have just started to receive. that they now have to review, that is part of the reason the next hearings are being delayed. the chairman of the investigation, thompson, says the investigation has a tide of nutrition information from the

public. you will recall that chairman thompson has recalled at the close at least one of these hearing, that the committee has a tip line. and that you can call in and let them know about any evidence you may have, that you think you want them to see. chairman thompson has also specifically mention that they have lots of new material, new evidence that they need to process from the national archives. from the national archives and records administration. now what is that? what is that likely to be? this could mean new documents from the trump white house that are just being cleared now for release to the investigation. all white house documents, all presidential papers go through the national archives. they are handled by the national archives. that's always an intriguing possibility, that the committee has just received a big, new dump of material from the trump white house that they didn't have before. but i also feel like i should point out one other thing here, that that could be. in addition to handling all of the documents from the former

presidency, from the trump white house, the national archives also has had its own role in this investigation. they've also had their own investigators working on unraveling a specific part of the plot to overthrow the government. and it is the part that relates to this. these are the forged documents, the counterfeit, electoral college votes that the trump campaign had sent into the national archives from seven different states. these were all states that were won by joe biden. so these were all states where the electoral college votes were going to be casper joe biden. but the trump campaign, nevertheless, directed this effort where they try to cast trump votes in the electoral college from the states the trump did not win. they sort of counterfeited these electoral slates. we were able to turn up correspondence from the national archives to state officials in the state. basically notifying state officials, hey, just be aware,

yeah, we've got your real elector certificates once you sent them in. you should know that we also got a fix that as well, someone is trying to pass off as real. these fake documents, these forged documents, with fake electoral votes, this part of the plot has since emerged as a matter of potential criminal prosecution. in at least two states. and at the federal level. and national archives investigators, because they have investigators, they have reportedly been accompanying fbi agents who have been investigating this matter on behalf of federal prosecutors at the u.s. department of justice. so in the committee says they need to delay their next set of hearings, they're going to extend the hearings into july, they have more material to deal with, it's important, me to process it, when they say some of that new material is from the national archives, new information coming in from the national archives. that is of interest. it's of interest because it could be more white house

materials. it could also be stuff that relates to the national archives specifically. especially because the january six investigation keeps rolling out all this new stuff they found about these fake electoral slates that were sent to the national archives. so, for example, on the first question here, was illegal? did they not was illegal? the january 6th investigators have given us a resounding yes. on both of those. the january 6th investigators have shown testimony that not only to the white house counsel's office conclude that the fake electors plan was illegal, the white house counsel's office formally notified white house chief of staff, mark meadows and trump lawyer, rudy giuliani. and all of the other people who happen to be allowed into the meeting about it. the white house counsel's office told them outright, at the white house, that the fake electors thing was illegal. so, it was illegal, they knew it was illegal. the january 6th investigators have also shown testimony from

not one but two top trump campaign lawyers. concluding themselves that the fake electors plot was illegal. and explaining that they themselves refused to work on that part of the plot. because it was illegal and they wanted nothing to do with it. they have even show the trump lawyer, john eastman, who appears to have been pushing the fake electors plot most aggressively on trump's behalf, they showed him saying, in writing, genius move, that the fake electors plot was doa, dead on arrival. since the fake electors are not actually illegal thing. the january 6th investigators have answered the most crucial questions here. resoundingly. even beyond them showing that just all of the lawyers knew it was illegal, the investigation also shows the some of the people who participated, some of the people who signed their names on these forged documents, who signed up to be the fake electors, they asked, as they did so for the trump campaign to please agree in advance to

pay their legal fees. in case they were food or arrested for trying to pull this off. so, the key first questions, was illegal? yes? do they know for sure was, illegal? yes. they knew for sure it was illegal. next crucial question, did they try to pull it off anyway? of course they tried to pull it off anyway. they did in fact forge, vague electoral slates. they mailed into the national archives as if they were real. hoping they would be counted as if they were real. so, was illegal? yes. did they know it? yes. to try to pull it off anyway? yes. was it occasionally hilarious when they did? so yes. we have been covering this part of trump's plot very closely from the beginning, we've been covering it here on the show for months. so heading into the hearings where we knew they were going to address this part of the plot, i thought that i got -- new a lot about. i was confident in my knowledge

of all the different looks and crannies of the fake electors plot. but i definitely did not know this. i did not see this one coming. >> one group of fake-elect is even considered hiding overnight to ensure that they could access the state capital as required in michigan. >> did mr. norris say who he was working with it all on this effort to have electors me? >> he said he was working with the president's campaign. he told me that the michigan republican electors were planning to meet in the capital and hide overnight so that they could fulfill the role of casting their vote in, pearl of, in the michigan chambers. and i told him in no uncertain terms at that was insane and

inappropriate. >> they plan to meet in the capital and hide overnight. so yes, was it occasionally hilarious the way they try to pull it off? yes. as you heard the witness say there, it was occasionally insane and inappropriate. especially in michigan. plotting to sneak into the capitol the night before, and hideout overnight, like an cupboards. or something. so they could pop out and surprise everybody at the right moment. and say, we have been the real electors to the punch! so now we are the real electors! or something. like, as if that is how presidents are chosen. tag, you're it! maybe some dodgeball to pick who gets to be in the cabinet. i had my fingers crossed, it doesn't count. absolutely insane. beyond michigan, though, we also know that there was this. this was a text message exchange showed by the january

6th investigators, vice president pence's staffer are the little bubbles on the right. the first one starting the conversation there from that staffer, soap? as an, what's up. the left side you see bubbles there from a staffer, she's a staff to senator, ron johnson. senator ron johnson staffer says, johnson needs the heads up into the vice president. please advise. the vice president staffer says, what is? it ron since she was staff says, alternate slate of electors for michigan and wisconsin because archives did not receive them. the vice president staffers as a response, do not give that to him. this was just -- the zero time stamp. you can see this is january 6th, in the noon hour. this is just minutes before vice president pence was supposed to actually count the electoral college vote. which is actually how we count the votes for president in this country. senator johnson needs to hand the vice president to of these forged, fake electors lift difficult before the counting starts.

how do we do that. ? what's? also, why was senator ron johnson volunteering to do that? why was he even involved? >> how much did you know about what you're chief of staff was doing with the alternate slates of electors? >> i'm on the phone right. now >> no you're not. i can see your phone. i can see your screen. senator, can you explain we are chief of staff was doing? the new chief of staff to work for you, senator? >> can you explain would happen? they're why was your chief of staff offering this to the vice president? >> that's a complete non-story. we've issued a statement, and this is a complete non-story. i don't know what you're concerned about here. >> well they said that you are chief of staff was saying is that you offered, you wanted to provide -- alternate electors of michigan and wisconsin to the vice president mike pence.

>> this is a staff to staff exchange. and i was basically unaware of it. and the chief of staff contacted the vice president staff said, do you want this. they said no. and we did deliver, and that's the end of the story. >> but why was even asking for that? >> because somebody deliver this to our office and asked to deliver that to the vice president. >> did you support his effort to try to get the slates the vice president? >> no, i had no knowledge of this. >> who is the person that delivered? >> i had no involvement in an alternate state of electors. i had no idea this even been deliver to. yes it got delivered staff to staff. my chief of staff to the right thing, contacted the vice president staff. they said they didn't want it so we didn't deliver it. that's the end of story. >> i have no knowledge of, this i don't even know who gave this thing to us. i don't have anything to do with, it i didn't ask came from. i just volunteered that i would take this thing that i did know anything about. and i didn't know what came from. and i didn't have anything to do is. and i didn't support. but it was, something i don't

know what, that needs to go to the vice president. and, hey, i'm a senator, and that's one of things we do. we handle every male in packages to the vice president, all the time. sometimes catalogs, and you can assume he probably doesn't want them. but maybe something he really. lakes and let's go through this cadillac's. sometimes it looks, important i don't, know understand, you'll also take out the recycling sometime. and i do parents, whatever. what else do senators do? senator ron johnson, i'm on the phone. no you're not senator, we can see that there is nothing happening on your phone. i'm gonna keep holding this to my face for a while, so you will pretend that you did not notice that i'm not on the phone. and then i put it out without saying anything. senator ron johnson, his explanation for what was going on here, his chief of staff saying that he needed to hand something to the vice president with something that nothing to do with him, definitely a non story. wow. senator ron johnson, always amazing. particularly amazing in his newly apparent role in this

part of the plot to overthrow the government. just astonishing. but it also should be noted. this part of it, this line that we have highlighted here. from the senators chief of staff. senator johnson needs to hand deliver these fake electors -- to the vice president because the archivist didn't receive them. well, no. we know in fact the archives did receive them. i mean, here they are. sent registered mail, weeks earlier from wisconsin and michigan. and received by the national archives. these were the national archives records. as kyle cheney a political was first to point out earlier today, we know that the national archives received these. this is not some lost in the male problem where senator ron johnson had to submit the last second at the slowest leg ever on the pony express. the archivist had these. the archivist, in reality, is in charge of receiving the actual, certified, legal electoral votes from the

states. and then giving those real electoral votes to the vice president. so he can count them on january 6th. the archivist did that. that is why pence had the real, certified electoral votes, physically. hard copies of them to count on january 6th. the archivist sent mike pence the rainbow. the archivist just didn't also give pence the junk mail. the illegal, counterfeit, not certify fake electoral slates to. yes, they had. them we know that they had received them. they just not pass that drunk on to the actual vice president. for the actual counting of the real, electoral votes. so what senator ron johnson his officer trying to arrange, at the very last minute, before pence darted the count, was to use this false claim. oh, hey, we understand the vice president is supposed to have these. but for some reason, the archive didn't get them. but don't worry, senator ron johnson can korean them over himself and hand-delivered them. they were using this false claim about the archives to try to give the vice president

forged, fake votes in time for the count. nice. call your office, senator. and turn your phone on this time. so, was illegal? yes. do they know? it yes. you tried anyway? sadly, yes. was occasionally hilarious when they did? so a course it was. next crucial question? did they get caught? yes. here's a federal judge ruling that trump lawyer, john eastman, his communication on this matter, must be released to the january 6th investigation because those communications are evidence of a possible crime. yes, they got caught. here is the january 6th investigation, looking at this very closely. starting to reveal all of their findings about. it including trump campaign lawyers, and people who worked on this game for the trump campaign in multiple states. saying in their sworn depositions, yeah, it was illegal. and they wish they never had anything to do with it. here is the pained deposition they played excerpts from

yesterday. a pained deposition from the head of the republican party. rnc chair, mcdaniel. the rnc had previously denied to reporters that they had anything to do with this fake elector skiing. but hey, look, under oath there's ronna mcdaniel that actually the rnc helped put the -- together. and that it was trump, personally trump himself, former president himself, who called her personally and asked her to help with the fake electors scheme. >> so, yes they got caught. up to and including the presidents personal involvement in it. and this much discussion as there has been about whether there will be criminal prosecutions for the plot to overthrow the government that has been exposed by the january 6th investigation, this part of it, this part of it is where we already know there are multiple federal and state criminal investigations underway. you will remember as breaking the news here on this show in january when the michigan

attorney general started investigating the federal electors in her state, as a matter of potential violations of state laws in michigan. she then refer that matter to federal prosecutors at the u.s. department of justice in late january. you remember the deputy attorney general, monaco, announcing that the fake-elect a scheme was a matter being investigated by federal prosecutors as. well in, made the new york times and cnn were first to report that fbi agents and federal investigators from the national archives were conducting interviews with people potentially implicated in the fake elector scheme. they were starting to hand out federal grand jury subpoenas. compelling people to testify about the fake elector scheme. because a federal griner jury was considering indictments in this -- for potential violations for criminal law. we have been able to report here on the show, including today, that multiple georgia republicans who were asked to participate in the fake elector

scheme, but who chose not to for whatever reason, multiple georgia republicans in that position have been interviewed and or have testified before three different entities. the january six committee, the fbi and also the criminal investigation being led by state prosecutors working out of fulton county, georgia. and now today. what is being described as a major escalation of the federal criminal investigation into these matters. the washington post was first of the story, with this headline today. january 6th probe expands with fresh subpoenas in multiple states. recipient of subpoenas included state party chairman, as officials probe deeper into pro trump efforts to use invalid electors to try to thwart biden's 2020 victory. that was the washington post, again, first on the story. they've been updating the story all day, as this is been developing. we've been learning more about these federal subpoenas across the country. the new york times and cnn have since matched and expanded on

the post reporting. what's coming into focus from all these different new -- agencies is that in georgia, pennsylvania and in michigan, at least, fbi agents, today, serves subpoenas on multiple people who appear to have been involved in the fake elector scheme. people who served, themselves, as fake electors. people who helped organize the fickle lectures effort for the trump campaign. also, at least one subpoena was deliberately crump campaign staffer edison virginia. he appears to have worked for the trump campaign in arizona and new mexico. so that means the federal investigation implicate the fickle lectures in those states to. even the republican party state chairman in georgia. who reportedly played a major role in organizing the illegal, fickle actors plot in georgia. he apparently received a federal grand jury subpoena today as well. that's all today. illegal? yes. they knew it? yes. they tried it anyway? yes. to hilarious effect?

yes. but they've been caught doing it -- and a federal investigation today appears to have widely expanded. and that of course just leaves us with the last question. if anybody actually going to end up getting in trouble here? watch this. [submarine rising out of water] [minions making noise] minions are bitin' today. (sung) liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. minions: the rise of gru, in theaters july 1st.

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on january 5th, he rented a car,

drove nine hours from central indiana to d.c.. he took a gun with him. a 45 caliber revolver, like this one. he loaded up with three rounds of shotgun shells. this is one of those gigantic 45 caliber revolver the can be loaded with shotgun shells. as well as the kind of bullets you typically associate with a gun like this. he loaded with some shotgun shells, and also some -- to hollow point rounds. hello point rounds are designed for maximum youth allegheny. the shape of the bullet means it rush -- mushrooms outward on impact. to causes much tissue damage as possible for anyone who gets shot with. one shotgun shells and hollow point bullets in this revolver. the next morning after he set out the, morning of january 6th, he got up, he hit the gun. the loaded gun. in a holster underneath his shirt and he went to the trump rally at the ellipse, outside the white house. from there, he marched with the crowd the trump had directed to go to the capital. when he was there, he jumped over the bike rack barriers.

he joined the pro trump mob that was trying to violently -- through the police and -- it at this point he said he somehow lost the gun that he had stowed underneath the shirt. from there, though he made his way to the entrances of one of the capital tunnels. the tunnels that lead right inside the capitol. you actually see him. here he is circled in red. he put on a white scarf with dark stars across state. and he joined the crowd in assaulting police officers who were trying to protect the tunnel, the capital. with one officer tried to use the baton to beat the protesters back. this man, the guy who just lost his gun, he ripped the police baton at of the officer's hands. he lost his gun, but he now had a new weapon. he had that baton that he took off the cup, and he swung that baton overhead and downward. hitting at least one officer. the man eventually left the capitol, got back in his rental car and drove to indiana. when this detail, he kept the police baton he had stolen off that officer and used to beat

up other policeman. he later told federal officers that he regretted not making it further into the capitol that day. because he really regret that he never thought nancy pelosi in person that day. he told federal investigators that if he had seen nancy pelosi that day, that he would've been brought to court quote, for another reason. >> -- this is the, man his name is mark meza, he was charged with illegally carrying -- and for assaulting police officers. just a few days ago, he pled guilty to both charges. he's facing up to 25 years in federal prison. individual attackers continue to be prosecuted for their part in the attack on the capital of january six. there's more than 800 of them charge so far. now we're in the moment, we have the january six hearings continuing apace, right? and these individual prosecutions continuing, a pace. and in some cases, they are running on a parallel track. you have a guy like mr. matzah

pleading guilty. facing up to 25 years in prison for him bringing a loaded gun to the capital and then using a police baton to beat officers, and saying he wish he would've been able to murder nancy pelosi, that's what we hope to do that. meanwhile, at the heart of the hearings is how quickly the trump effort to stay in power, after losing the election, slid from the political round into violence. the fact with showcase multiple times, particularly in yesterday's hearings, starting with these comments from -- the top official in georgia. >> it all gone too far. all of it. -- a patriot who rents this that to be shot. a 20 something -- tech and get accounting today had death threats and a news put outside, saying he should

be hung for treason, because he would transferring a report on a batches from -- to a county community so he could read it. it has to stop! >> that was public comment from december, 2020 from the top election official in georgia. repeated, showed at the committee hearing. -- there's also newly-revealed yesterday's hearing, that before january 6th, before the january 6th attack or started a federal -- some tested out those violent tactics in the states. going after the state level target the trump had singled out. the committee revealed new video showing how a group of protesters illegally occupied the arizona house of representatives, right after the election. some of the protesters were armed with rifles, they were there trying to bully arizona republicans. again, using rifles that they should overturn the election for donald trump. at least one of those protesters in that illegal

incursion of the state capital arizona went on to participate in the capital in january 6th. and was at the years in prison. we know there were similar armed incursions charging state houses in the homes of state governors, not just in arizona, but in michigan, washington, oregon, all in the months leading up to january 6th. and given that, given the slide from trump supporting -- from politics into violence, an armed confrontation, given that, that has been documented at this hearing, is that particularly in prize -- but it's still scary to read -- that was on the front page of the washington post. lawmakers on the january six investigation that to ramp up their security due to sharply increase cadence of threats of violence against them. the post reporting that in the past 24 hours, there's been a notable uptick in the number of violent threats made against members of congress were part

of the january six investigation. because of those threats. we learn today from the washington post that all members of the investigation are likely to receive a full security detail from here on out. more ahead, stay with us. ahead, stay with us

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unsettling news today the members of congress that were part of the january 6th investigation has been subject to a sudden surge in violent

threats made against them. because of these threats, all members of the january 6th investigation will soon be receiving security details. i should tell you that cnn also reported today and explicit assassination threats to members of the investigation, including on formal -- president trump social media platform. -- amy gardener, who broke the story today, miss gardner, thank you for being here today. we appreciate for taking time. >> thank you, rachel. >> it's unfortunately not unheard of for members of congress to be subjected to threats. can you tell us anything about the nature of these threats? or the cadence of them? or what it was that led to this dramatic step. you said this uptick and threats was over the last 24 hours, that seems like a very acute threat to make this kind of security response to. >> the only specific threat that we know about, was actually the one that i'm considering -- a member of the committee

publicized himself over twitter. his wife, actually received a handwritten note threatening her and their child and the husband. and it was explicit. and vulgar. and terrifying. but we do know there have been additional threats as we reported today over the last 24 hours. and i think it's worth noting that it shouldn't come as the price of this is the case. it's obviously horrifying. but we just sat through this hearing yesterday, in which all of the state officials talked about why they stood up to trump and the pressure campaign. and the threats that they received as a result of that. and so the fact that you have this public hearing, a series of hearings going on, in which people are continuing to state the reasons why trump's false claims about the election are in fact false, it shouldn't come as any surprise to us that this is attracting even more

threatening behavior from those who support president trump. i have received them in my own inbox. so have many other journalists. >> for which i am sorry. i am sorry that is a cost, particularly covering this beat. let me ask, this is the practical question. it may be sound small. but it'll probably be important to these individual members of congress who have to have their lives changed by this, a security environment. one of the things you wrote about today was the vice chair of the investigation, congressman -- woman liz cheney, she's had to have security detail since last year. and that the threat level against her is actually meant that she can't have large events for her reelection campaign. because the security concerns there. i mean, having a security detail and working in a high threat environment can really change how these members of congress have to live. do you know anything about how they are coping with the fact that their lives are built to be overturned by these new security measures? >> look, every member of this

committee is up for reelection this year. right? it's the. houses every two years. and there are some of them during quite competitive races. representative elaine -- of the virginia beach area, virginia, where i live. she is on the committee. she is going to be one of the co-presenters in, we think, the final hearing. which is supposed to focus all on trump's actions. and his culpability for what happened on january 6th. there's no doubt in my mind that that high-profile hearing, which is supposed to at the moment be broadcasted in primetime, will attract even more of these kinds of threats. and of course it affects the actions and activities of these members of congress who try to get back to their districts every weekend, and even a between when they can to meet with constituents, to campaign electioneer, as we are in right now. there's no question that the

effects of this are going to continue as this summer continues amy. gardner, national political reporter for the washington post, congratulations on the scoop, it is a dark topic, but it is important to note. thank you. >> thank, you rachel. >> but more to come tonight. you. you. >> thank, love to walk on the . i have two daughters and then two granddaughters. >> but more to come tonight. i noticed that memories were not there my memory has gotten better and it's like the puzzle pieces have all been [click] put together. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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top 20 donors, political donors, two candidates in the united states this current election cycle. it is a list of very rich people who donate more money

than anybody else to political candidates. the top political contributor in the u.s.'s democratic donor george shores. probably recognize his name, it's the person that you're crazy uncle who watches fox news all day blames. every time the sun goes down at night or he does not win the power ball again, darn you, soros! despite the prominence of source on the list, the majority of these donors are acting people that donate to republicans, like trump mega donors peter teal, who say it is such a drag that women were ever allowed to vote. it would actually be better for peter if that hadn't happened. there are a handful of other democratic donors on the list, including read hoffman, the founder of linked in. he is one of the top donors to democratic campaigns in the country in this cycle. this is the lead from the washington post today in terms of what to watch out for in donations in the next cycle. look at this. quote, linkedin founder read

hoffman, one of the nation's top political donors, gathered more than a dozen phone nurse or the representatives over zoom friday to sound an alarm about the coming elections. he is putting some of the nation's wealthiest people on a doomsday idea that has become a growing obsession. one side of the powerpoint presentation that he gave to the group said, quote, maga, make america great again leaders intend to use the 20 2022 midterm winds to install trump in 2024 regardless of the vote. a second slide, titled how maga midterms can install trump, laid out a step doomsday hypothetical scenario. republicans win statewide offices in key battleground states this year in 2022, then they change state laws in 2023 to give legislators control over presidential electors. this new group of billionaires for democracy is called investing in u.s.. the washington post points out that they're one of the most aggressive groups a big dollar

donors invested in pushing back against what they see as a republican plan to essentially on knit the sweater of american democracy so that republicans just choose the next president regardless of how americans vote. joining us now is michael shear, the national political correspondent for the washington post. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you for having me, rachel. >> you wrote about a number of different donor groups in some of their priorities and what they are spending on today. i am focused and on this bit of a reporting related to read hoffman and his efforts, because i feel that doomsday scenario that he is describing the billionaire donors is a think that a lot of people in the left and center, and even not trump republicans have been talking about as an inevitability for the country ahead of 2024. it sounds like there is a lot of overlap between the elite donor composition here and the kind of word on the street for people who care about politics. you get the sense that that is fair? >> i think i was surprised

reporting this story how broad that concern was among the donor community. i focused on reeves presentation because it was so recent and stark. but if you go through all the big donor groups on the democratic side, these are mostly groups that cold donations for nonprofits. a lot of this is not recorded in the list of political donations. lots of organizations that don't have to report where there are getting their money. this theme that the 2022 elections could determine the 2024 elections has become a dominant one. what you have is a narrowing and shifting of where they're focusing their money, instead of focusing just on the house map on just the senate map, which is typically what you do in a midterm election, they are focused narrowly on five of seven states where there are governor races, where there are distinct supreme court races, secretary of state races, and they're trying to win in those places to basically prevent republicans from getting control about the legislative and governorship, so that they can change laws.

the rules of voting or changing how electors are awarded. >> michael, is there effectively a sort of public education component to this to beyond funding individual candidates or ballot measures? the way that you said that they spelled this out in the call, this step-by-step ethical nightmare scenario, republicans win statewide offices in keep out around states this year, next year they change state laws to give legislators control of the presidential electors, and then and the next presidential election in 2024, those state legislators declare boats from urban centers to be tainted, and they decide that they will overrule the popular vote and their states by sending their own state electors to washington. that prospect -- if there is a public education component telling people that that is the plan that they are investing against, potentially has the impact of inoculating

the public against some kind of scheme. >> i think that mr. with some constituencies. a lot of this money will not go to spread that message. for instance, in pennsylvania, there is a 6 million dollar effort that has been announced by one of these funding groups efforts to educate people that doug mastriano, the republican candidate for governor, most of that advertising campaign, go knocking campaign, will be about issues about abortion, minimum wage, unions, other issues of democracy, because they have found through the research that those are the issues that will win voters. that is really what this is about, getting voters who would otherwise vote -- in the case a read hoffman's group, dissuading republicans from voting republican. i think you are right. there will be a lot of education around this. and a lot of places, it will not be the primary thing. a lot of voters are getting messages from these groups will not know the underlying idea behind the money being spent,

which is to try to protect the 2024 democratic process. >> except for the fact that you're looking to cash out of the bag with this, with this excellent reporting, which has its own excellent public education component to it. michael scheer, national porter for the washington post, sir, thanks for joining us, why don't. >> think about me. >> we will be right back, stay with us. n't. >> think about me. >> think about me. >>sentation is crystal clear. and smart camera auto pans and zooms to keep you perfectly in frame. with us. oh, and it syncs with your calendar. you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. now that's a productive day. meta portal: make working from home work for you. fishing helps ease my mind. it's kinda like having liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. woah! look out! [submarine rising out of water]

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