connecticut, thank you very much for joining us tonight. that is all in on this wednesday night. the rachel maddow show starts tonight. tonight. connecticut, thank you very much for joining us tonight. that's "all in." the rachel maddow begins right now. >> thanks for joining us this hour. happy to have you here. itg is a very simple progressi. i'll tell you the bottom line, it is still notn. early to figu outit how this is all going to d ultimately, but in terms of where we are now, it is easy, it is very, very, it's logical and straightforward, to figure out where we are in this story. because these are the questions we now know to ask. question number one. was it illegal? if the answer is yes, it was illegal, then the next question is, did they know it was illegal? if the answer was yes, they knew it was illegal, then the next question is, did they try to pull it off anyway?

if the answer to that is yes, they tried to pull it off anyway, my next personal question is always, well, when you try to pull it off, was it occasionally hilarious? whether or not the answer to that is yes, then the next obvious question is did it get caught? and then the final question is, will they get inen trouble for ? that is pretty simply where we are, and how, sort of how we know a how to orient ourselves,n this ongoing saga which will be our generation's story in american history. was it illegal? did they know it? did they do it anyway? is it ridiculous when they did? did they get caught? will they get in trouble? now, the answer to all of the first five questions, we now know, is yes, and the last one that is uncertain. in this particular part of the

plot to overthrow the u.s. government, i didn't really expect to be talking about this as our lead story tonight. it surprised me as mu as it surprised anyone today that we learned the fbi started showing up at all of these guy's houses, today of all days so that makes it hardly a story, here we are. let's get to it. you might have seen the headlines today about the january 6th investigation.yo there is still a hearing planned for tomorrow. that's the one about them, folks trying to put people involved in the plot to overthrow the election in charge at the justice department, specifically so they could use the justice department to help overthrow the government. that next hearing is still planned for tomorrow, 3:00 p.m. eastern time and of course tomorrow night3: here at 8:00 eastern, we will be doing our special prime time recap of that hearing. so that is still on. but we had expected that after hearing tomorrow, they would do the rest of their

hearings next week. the january 6th investigators had said explicitly that they had planned to do awful their hearings in june, they planned to done with all of the hearings in in this calendar month. that is no longer the plan. especially when they started showing up the public what turned up in the investigation, in the blockbuster hearings that have had millions of americans watching every one, apparently that has sort of opened the flood gate and they announced they have received so much new evidence just since the hearings started, that they need time to incorporate it into their findings. and so yes, there is still that 3:00 p.m. hearing tomorrow, but then, no hearings after that, for aen few weeks. after tomorrow, they're going to pick back up with them, only starting, apparently, maybe mid july. so what's all this new evidence that they're getting, that has to make this big change in the schedule and to decide to extend the hears much

deeper into the summer? in terms of what we know they have received, in terms of what they told us they have received that is new, "politico" was first to report yesterday that the trumpco family apparently h arranged for a documentary film maker to closely shadow them, including the president, starting in september, 2020, after the election, in november 2020,on and then thereafter, as the presidenten refused to recognize the results to the election, as he plotted to overthrow the government, and stay in power anyway, right through january 6th itself, and even after january 6th toward theev inauguration. a british documentary film maker and his crew, they were apparently with president trump and his adult children throughout that time. learning that, the january 6th investatn subpoenaed that documentary film maker fored basically all of his relevant raw footage. he released a statement yesterday saying he has hired a lawyer and cooperating with the committee, and the upshot is thatit they apparently are gettg

everything from it. rolling stoneer was first to that trump white house officials didn't know that guy was doing this film. trump white house officials didn't know that the trumps had allowed thisdn to happen, that theyal had all sat for intervie with this guy, let alone around the events of january 6th, which itself is amazing that the white house more broadly didn't know that people didn't sign off, that this was apparently like a trump family project. but that footage, which sounds like from a subpoena like a lot of footage is part of the new material the january 6th investigators just started to receive that they have to review, that t is part of the reason the next hearings are delayed and the chairman of the investigation bennie thompson says the investigation has received a tide of new tips and new information from the public and you will recall at the close

of one of the hearings that the committee has a tip line and you can call in and let them know about any evidence you may have that you think you want them to see. chairman thompson has specifically mentioned that they have lots of new material, new evidence that they need to process, from the national archives, from the national archives and records administration. now, what is that? what's that likely to be? this could mean new documents from the trump white house that are just being cleareds now fo release to the investigation. all white house documents, all presidential l papers, go throu the national archives, are handled by the national archives so that is always an intriguing possibility that the community has just received a big new dump of material from the trump white house that they didn't have before. but i also feel like i should point out one other thing here, that that could be, in addition to hand ling all of the documents from the former presidency, from the trump white house, the national archives

also has had its own role in this investigation. they have also had their own investigators working on unraveling a specific part of the plot to overthrow the government and it's the part that relates to this. these are the forged document, the counterfeit electoral college votes that the trump campaign had sent into the archives from search different states, all states won by joe biden, all states where the electoral college votes are going to beel cast for joe bide but the trump campaigns nevertheless directed this effort where they tried to cast trump votes from these states that trump didn't win, sort of counterfeited these electoral slates. we were able to turn up correspondence from the national archives to state officials in these states, basically notifyings state officials, he just be aware, yeah, we got your real elector certificates once youre sent them in but you shou

know that we got a fake set as well that somebody is trying to pass off as real. these fake padocuments, these forged documents, with fake electoral votes, this part of the plot has since emerged as part of potential criminal prosecution in at least two states and the federal level, and national archives investigators, as they have investigators, they have reportedly been accompanying fbi agents who have been investigating this matter on behalfat of federal prosecutorsf the u.s. department of justice, so when the committee said this, need to delay their next set of hearings, they will extend theirse hearings into ju, more material to deal with it and it is important and need to they say and when some of the new material it from the national archives, new information coming in from the national archives, that is of interest. it's of interest because it could be more white house materials, it could also be something that relates to the national b archives specificall,

especially because the january 6th investigation keeps rolling out all of this new stuff they have found about these fake electoral slates that were sent to the national archives. so for example, on the first question, is it illegal? the first question here, was it illegal?qu did they know it was illegal? thega january 6th investigators resounding yes on both of those. the january 6th investigators have shown testimony that not only did the white house counsel's office conclude that the fake electors plan was illegal, the white houseth counsel's office formally notified white house chief of staff mark meadows and trump's lawyer rudy giuliani, and all of the other people who happened to be allowed into their meeting about it,ruot the white house counsel's office told them outright at the white house that the fake electors thing was illegal. it was illegal.e they knew it was illegal. the january 6th investigate verse shown testimony from not

one but two top trump campaign lawyers concluding themselves that the fake electors plot was illegal and explaining that they themselves refused to work on thatth part of the plot, becaus it was illegal, and they wanted nothing to do with it. they have even shown that trump lawyer john eastman who appears to be pushing the fake electors plot most aggressively on trump's behalf that in writing the fake electors plot was dead on arrival, since the fake electors aren't actually a legal thing. so the january 6th investigators have answered the most crucial questions here resoundingly even them showing that all of the lawyers knew it was illegal. so people who participated, some of the people who signed their names on these forged document, who signed up to be the fake electors, they asked, as they did so, for the trump campaign to please agree in advance to

pay their fees in case they sued or arrested forle trying to pul thised off. the key first questions. was itth illegal? yes.s. did they know for sure it was illegal? yes. they knew for sure that it was illegal. next crucial question, did they try to pull it off anyway? of course they tried to pull it off anyway. they did in fact, forge fake electoral college slates of votes. they mailed them in to the national archives as if they were real, hoping they would be counted as if they were real. so was it illegal did they know it? yes. did they try to pull it off anyway? yes. was it occasionally hilarious when they did so. yes. we have been covering this part of trump's plot very closely from the be ving and covering it on the show for month and heading into the hearings where we knew they would address this of the plot, i thought i knew a lot about it and i was confident

about the nooks and cranys of the fake electors plot and i definitely did not know this. dy not see this one coming. >> fake electors considered hiding overnight to ensure that they could access the state capitol as required in michigan. >> did mr. norton say who he was working with at all on this effort to have electors meet? >> he said he was working with the president's campaign. he told me that the michigan republican electors were planning to meet in the capitol and hide overnight so that they could fulfill the local casting of the vote, per law, in the michigan chambers, and i told him in no uncertain terms that that was insane and

inappropriate. >> planned to meet in the capitol anded hide overnight. yes, was it occasionally hilarious the way they tried to pull it off? yes. as you heard the witness say there, y it was occasionally insane and inappropriate. especially in michigan. sneaking into the capitol, the night before, and hiding out overnight, like in cupboards. so they could pop out and surprise everybody at the right moment and say we have beaten themo real electors to the punc and we're the real electors. or something. like as if that is how presidents are chosen. and tag, you're, it maybe some dodge ball. i have my fingers crossed. doesn't count. absolutely insane. beyond michigan though, we also know that there was this. this is a big text message exchange showed by the january 6th investigators, vice president pence's staffer, the littleid bubbles on the right, u

can see the first one, starting the conversation there from thae staffer, sup? as in what's up with? and the left side, bubbles from a chief of staff, chief senator ron johnson. senator ron johnson's staffer says johnson needs to hand something to the vice president, please advise. the response, what is it. >> senator ron johnson's chief of staff says alternate slate of electors. >> do not give that to him. >> thatec was just, these are a time stamped, so you can see this is january 6th in the noon hour, minutes before vice president pence was supposed to actually count the electoral college acvotes, which is actuay having to count the votes for president in this country. senator johnson needs to hand the vice president, to these forged fake electors certificates, how do we do that?

what? also, why was senator johnson volunteering to do that? why was he even involved? >> how much did you know about what your chief of staff was doing with the alternate slates of electors? >> no you're not. i can see your phone. i can see your screen. >> can you explain what your chief of staff was doing? >> does your chief of staff still work for you, senator. >> you can explain what happened there. >> that's a complete non-story. i don't know what you're even concerned about here. >> well, they said that your chief of staff is saying that you offered, you wanted to provide -- >> no, this is a staff exchange,

and i was basically unaware of it. and the chief of staff contacted the vice president's staff, said do you want this, and they said no, and we didn't deliver it and that's, the end of the story. >> but why was he even asking for this. >> because somebody delivered this to our office and asked about the vice president. >> and did you support his officers to try to get those slates to the vice president. >> no i had no knowledge of this. >> who isat the person who -- >>th i had no involvement in an alternate slate of electors. i had no idea this was going to be delivered to us. delivered staff to staff. my chief of staff did the right thing, contacted the vice president's staff. they said they didn't want it, so he didn't deliver it. that's the end of the story. >> i have no knowledge of this. i don't even know who gave this thing ton' us. i don't have anything to do with it. i didn't ask wherei it came fr. i just w volunteered that i wou but i didn't g, know anything about, and i didn't know who it came from and i didn't't have anything to do withi and i didn't support it d i didn't know what, and giving

it to the vice president and hey, i'm a senator and that's one of the things we do. we can deliver mail and packages to the vice president all the time. we hand-deliver mail and packages to the vice president allan the time. sometimes it is cat loss and maybe it is sometimes he really likes and hema likes to go throh the catalogs. and ies take out the recycling sometimes. you know, what else do senators do. >> i'm on the own. >> no you're not. we can see there is nothing happening on the screen of your phone. >> i willno hold this to my fac so you will pretend that you will noticeso that i'm not on t phone and put it down without saying anything. >> senator ron johnson, his explanation for what wasyi goin here, his chief of staff, that he needed to hand something to the vice president, with something that had nothing to do with him, definitely a nonstory. wow. senator ron johnson, always amazing. particularly amazing in his newly apparent role in this part of the plot to overthrow the

government. just astonishing. but it also should be noted, this part of it, this line, that we highlighted here, from the senator's chief of staff, senator johnson needs to hand-deliver these fake electors certificates to the vice president because the archivist didn't receive them. we know in fact the archive did receive them. sent registered mail weeks earlier from washington and michigan and referred by the archives, these are in the national archives records, as kyle cheney at "politico" was first to point out earlier today, we know the national archives received these, this is not some lost in the mail problem that senator ron johnson had to sub in at the last moment with the last leg of the pony express. the archive had these. ites is in charge of receiving e actual certified legal votes

from the states and gives those real vote to the vice president so he can count them on january 6th. the archivist did that. that's why pence had the real certified votes, physically, to count them on january 6th. the archive sent mike pence the real chvote, the archivist did t give the jump mail, the illegal counterfeit not certified fake electoral slates, too. we know they had them. we know they had received them. they didn't pass that jump on to the actual vice president for the actual counting of the real electoral votes so what senator ron johnson and his office tried to arrange at the last minute before pence started to start the count, that we understand the vice president was supposed to have these but archives didn't get them but senator ron johnson can courier them over himself and hand-deliver them. they werehi using a false claim about the t archives to try to give the t vice president forge

fake votes in time for the count. nice. call your office, senator. and turn your phone on this time. so, was it illegal? yes. did they knowwa it? yes. anyway? try it sadly, yes. was it occasionally hilarious when they did so? of course, it was. next crucial question, did they get caught? well, yes. here's a federal judge, ruling that trump's lawyer's john eastn has communications on this matter, must be released to the january 6th investigations that you those communications are evidence ofha a possible crime. yes, they got caught. i mean here's the january 6th investigation, lookingth at thi very closely, starting to reveal findings about it. including trump campaign lawyers, and people who workedc on the scheme for the trump campaign in multiple states saying in their sworn depositions, yes, it was illegal, and they wish they had never had anything to do with it. here is that pained deposition they played excerpts from

earlier, a pained deposition from the head of thero republic party, rnc chairman ronna mcdaniel, and previously denied to reporters that they had anythingus to do with the fake scheme but there is ronnat mcdaniel admitting that actually yes thenn rnc helped p the fake electors together and, and that it was trump personally, trump himself, former president himself, who called her personally, and asked her to help with the fake electors scheme. so yes, they got caught. up to and including the president's personalan involvement. and as much discussion as there has been about whether there will be criminal prosecutions for the plot to overthrow the government that has been exposed 6th e january investigation, this part of it, this part of it is where we already know there are multiple federal and stateal criminal investigations under way. you will remember us breaking the news here on this show in january when the michigan

attorney general started investigating the federaley electors in her state as a matter of potential violations of state law in michigan. she then referred that matter to federal prosecutors at the u.s. department of justice, infe lat january, you will remember, the deputy attorney general, lisa monaco,ra announcing in fact th fakeng electors scheme was bein investigated by federal prosecutors as well. in may, "the new york times" and cnn were first to report that the fbi agents and federal investigators from the national archives were conductingst interviews with people potentially implicated in the fake electors scheme. they were starting to hand out federal grand jury speier subpoenasde compelling people t testify about the fake electors scheme, because a federal grand jury was considering indictment in this matter. for potential violations of federal criminal law. we have been able to report here on this show, including today, that multiple georgia republicans who were asked to participate in the fake electors scheme, but who chose not to,

for whatever reason, multiple georgia republicans in that position havebl been interviewe and/orsi have testified before three different entities, the january 6th committee, the fbi, ande, also the criminal investigation being led by state prosecutors working out of fulton county, georgia. and now today. what is being described as a major escalation of the federal criminal investigation into these matter, the "washington post" was first to the story with this headline today, january 6th probe expands with fresh subpoenas in multiple states. recipients of subpoenas include a state party chairman, as officials probe deeper into pro-trumpof efforts to use invad electors to try to thwart biden's 2020 victory. that was the "washington post," first on the story, they have been updating their story all day asey it has been developing and weal have been learning mor about these federal subpoenas across the country. "the new york times" and cnn has since matched and expanded on the post's reporting, and what is coming into focus from all of

these different news agencies pursuing this story is that in georgia, and in pennsylvania, and in michigan, at least, fbi agents today served subpoenas on multiple people who appear to have been involved in the fake electorsha scheme. people who served themselves as fake electors. people who helped organize the fake electors effort for the trump campaign. also at least one subpoena was delivered to a trump campaign staffer atve his home in virgin. he appears to have worked for the trump campaign in arizona andth new mexico, and so that means the federal investigation implicate the fake electors in those states too. and thein republican chairman i georgia,st who reportedly playea major role in organizing the illegal fake electors plot in georgia, he apparently received a federal grand jury subpoena todayap as well. so that's all today. illegal, yes. they knew it. yes. they tried it anyway. yes. to hilarious effect.

yes. and yet, caught, with active federal investigations at the federal and state level and the federal investigation today appears to have widelyde expand. and that of course just leaves us with the last question. is anybody actually ending up getting in trouble here? watch this space. tting in troub? watch this space

on january 5th, he rented a car and took his gun with him, 45 caliber revolver, like this one, he loaded it up with three rounds of shotgun shell, one of the gigantic 45 caliber revolvers that can be loaded with shotgun shells and bullets that you typically associate with a gun like this, loaded it with shotgun shells and hollow point rounds, designed for

maximum leeth al ty, and mushrooms on impact to cause as much tissue damage as possible for anyone who gets hit with one. so shotgun shells and hollow point bullets and the next morning when he set out on january 6th, he got up and hid the gun, a loaded gun in a holster underneath his shirt and he went to the trump rally outside the ellipse outside the white house and marched with the crowd that trump had directed to go to the capitol. when he was there he jumped over the barriers and joined the pro trump mob and violently pushing past plus into the capitol building and he had somehow lost his gun that he stowed under his shirt and made his way to the entrance of the capitol tunnel and the tunnel that led right inside the tunnel and you can see him here encircled in red, he put on a white scarf with dark stars across it, and he joined the crowd in assaulting police officers who were trying to protect the tunnel, protect the capitol, when one officer tried to use his baton to beat the protesters back, this man, the guy who just lost his gun,

he ripped the police baton out of the officer's hands, lost his gun and now had a new weapon, right, he had that baton that he took off the cop and he swung that baton overhead and downward, hitting at least one officer. the man eventually left the capitol. got back in his rental car and drove home to indiana, one nice detail, he kept the police baton he had stolen off that officer and used to beat another policeman. he later told federal officers that he regretted not making it further into the capitol that day that he regrets that he never saw nancy pelosi in person that day, he told federal investigators that if he had seen nancy pelosi that day, that we have been brought to court, quote, for another reason. this is the man, mark mazza, charged with illegally carrying a loaded firearm on the u.s. grounds and assaulting a police officer and pled guilty to both of those charges and facing up

to 25 years in federal prison. individual attackers continue to be prosecuted for their attack on the attack on the capitol january 4th, more than 800 charged so far. now where we're in this moment where we jot january 6th hearings continuing, right, and these individual prosecutions, continuing, at pace, and in some cases they are running on a parallel track because you got a guy like mr. mazza pleading guilty, facing up to 25 years in prison for bringing a loaded gun to the capitol and using a police baton to beat officers and saying he wished to murder nancy pelosi, that's what he had hoped to do that day, meanwhile at the heart of the hearings is how difficult the trump effort to stay in power slid from the political realm into violence. that fact was showcased multiple times, particularly in yesterday's hearing, starting with these comments from the top election official in georgia.

>> it has all gone too far. all of it. a patriot was asked to be shot. a 20-something tech in the county today, has death threats and a noose put outside, hung for treason, because she was transferring a report on batches from ems to a county computer to read it. it has to stop. >> that was public comments from december 2020, from a top election official in georgia, repeatedly showed at the committee hearing yesterday. considering the slide into violence. and it was revealed in the committee hearings that before january 6th, before the january 6th attackers targeted federal lawmakers at the u.s. capitol,

some tested out the violent tactics in the states going after the state level targets that trump had singled out. the committee revealed new video showing how a group of protesters illegally occupied the arizona house of representatives after the election, and some protesters armed with rifles, there to try to bully arizona republicans, again, using rifles, that they should overturn the election for donald trump. at least one of those protesters in that illegal incursion at the state capitol in arizona went on to aerp participate in the attack on the capitol january 6th and serving years in prison. and there were homes of state governor, not just arizona, but michigan, washington, oregon, all in the months leading up to january 6th. and so given that, given this slide from trump supporting, trump supporters from politics, into violence, and armed confrontation, given that, that

it has been documented at these hearings, is that particularly surprising, that it is still scary, to read the scoop that was on the front page of the "washington post" today. lawmakers on the january 6th committee have had to ramp up their security due to a sharply increased cadence of threats of violence against them. the post report thrag in the past 24 hours, there has been a notable uptick in the number of violent threats made against members of congress part of the january 6th investigation, because of those threats, we learned today from the "washington post" that all members of the investigation are likely to receive a full security detail from here on out. more ahead. stay with us. e on out. more ahead stay with us

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the "washington post" first broke the unsettling news that the members of the congress part of the january 6th investigation have been subjected to a certain surge of violent threats made against them and because of the threats all of the members of the january 6th investigation will soon be receiving security details. i should tell you that cnn also reported today on explicit assassination threats being made online against members of the investigation, including, on former president trump's new social media platform. joining us now is "washington post" national political reporter amy gardner who broke this story today. thank you for being here. appreciate you making the time. >> thank you, rachel. >> it is unfortunately not unheard of, for members of congress to be subjected to threats. can you tell us anything about

the nature of these threats or the cadence of them, or what it was that led to this dramatic step, when you said that this uptick in threats against them was over the last 24 hours, that seems like a very acute threat to make this kinds of security response to. >> the only specific threat that we know about was a member of the committee, in which his wife received a handwritten note threatening her, and their child, and her husband, and it was explicit and vulgar, and terrifying. but what we, but we do know that there had been additional threats as we reported today, over the last 24 hours, and i think it's worth noting that it really, it shouldn't come as a surprise that this is the case. it is obviously horrifying. but we just sat through this hearing yesterday, in which all of these state officials talked

about why they stood up to trump, and the pressure campaign, and the threats that they received as a result of that. and so the fact that we have this public hearing, series of hearings going on, in which people are continuing to state the reasons why trump's false claims about the election are in fact false, it shouldn't come as a surprise to us, that this is attracting even more threatening behavior from those who support president trump. i received them in my own inbox. and so have many other journalists. >> for which i'm sorry, i'm sorry that is a cost covering this beat. this is a practical question and it may sound small but it probably will be important for the individual members of congress who have their lives changed because of this. what you wrote about today, the vice chair of the investigation, congresswoman liz cheney had to have a security detail since last year, and that that the

threat level against her has actually meant that she can't have large events for her re-election campaign, because the security concerns there. i mean having a security detail and working in a high threat environment, can really change how these members of congress have to live. do you know anything about how they're coping with the fact that their lives are going to have to be sort of overturned by these new security measures? >> look, every member of this committee is up for re-election this year, right? it's the house. it's every two years. and there are some of them who are in quite competitive race, representative luria of the virginia beach area of virginia where i live is on the committee. she's going to be one of the co-presenters in the final hearing we think, which is supposed to focus all on trump's actions, and his culpability for what happened on january 6th. there's no doubt in my mind that that high profile hearing, which is supposed to, at the moment is

scheduled to be broadcast in prime time, will attract even more of these kinds of threats, and of course, it affects the actions and activities of these members of congress who try to get back to their districts every weekend and even in between when they can, to meet with constituents, to campaign in election year, as we're in right now. no question that the effects of this are going to continue as the summer continues. >> national political reporter for the "washington post," congratulations on the scoop, it's a dark topic, but it's important to know. thank you. thanks for being here. >> thanks, rachel. >> much more to come. stay with us. rachel. >> much more to come stay with us

i'm going to show you a list of the top 20 donors, political donors to candidates in the united states, this current election cycle. it's a list of the very, very rich people who donate more money than anybody else to political candidates shall the top political contributor in the u.s. is democratic donor george soros, you probably recognize his name, the crazy uncle who watches fox news all day, and blames every time the sun goes down at night or doesn't win the powerball again. darn you, soros. and the majority of the donors, are donating to republicans, trump mega donors larry elston and peter teal who says it was such a drag if women could vote,

and the linkedin, reed hoffman, one of the top donors to democratic campaigns in the country, in this cycle. and now, this is the lead from the "washington post" today. in terms of what to watch out for in donations in the next cycle. this, linked in founder reid hoffman, one of the nation's top political donors, gathered more than a dozen billionaires or their representatives over zoom on friday, to sound an alarm about the coming elections. hoffman was pitching some of the nation's wealthiest people on a domesday idea that has become a growing obsession. one slide of the power point presentation that hoffman gave to the group that quote maga, make america great gain leaders intend to use the 2022 midterm to install trump in 2024, regardless of the vote. a second slide, titled how maga midterms can install trump laid out a step by step doomsday hypothetical scenario.

republicans win statewide offices in key battleground states, this year, in 2022, and then they change state laws in 2023 to give legislators control over presidential electors. this new group of billionaires for democracy is called investing in u.s., the "washington post" points out that they're one of the most aggressive groups of big dollar donors invested in pushing back against what they see as a republican plan to essentially unknit the sweater of american democracy, so that republicans just choose the next president regardless of how americans vote. joining us now is michael sure, the national political reporter for the "washington post" who broke the story today, thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks for having me, rachel. >> you wrote about a number of different donor groups and some of their priorities and what they're spending on today and i'm focussing in on this reporting related to hoffman and his efforts because i feel like that doomsday scenario that he is describing to billionaire donors is a thing that a lot of people on the left and in the

center and even sort of not trump republicans have been talking about as an inevitability for the country ahead of the 2024. it sounds like there is a lot of overlap between the elite donor conversation here and the kind of the word on street for people who care about politics. do you get the sense that that's fair? >> yes, and i think, i was surprised reporting the story how raw that concern is and i focused on the reid's presentation because it was so recent and so stark and you do through the big donor groups on the democratic side, and most of these groups pool donations for nonprofits and a lot are not listed in the political donations, these are organizations that don't have to report where they're getting their money, and this theme that the 2022 elections could determine the 2024 elections, it has really become a dominant one, and so what you have is a narrowing and a shifting of where they're focusing their money, instead of focusing just

on the house matt map or the senate map which is typically what do you in a midterm election, they're narrowly focused on five so seven states with governor's races and state supreme court races and secretary of state races, and they're really trying to win in those places, to basically prevent republicans from getting trifecta control of both the legislative houses and the governorship, so that they can change the laws. either for voting, the rules of voting, or changing how electors are awarded. >> and michael is, there also effectively sort of a public education component to this, too, beyond funding individual candidates, or ballot measures? i mean the way that you said they spelled this out in the call, the step by step hypothetical nightmare scenario, republicans win statewide offices in key battleground states this year, and next year, they change state laws because legislatures control presidential electors and the next presidential electors in 2024, those state legislatures

declare votes from urban centers to be tainted and they decide they will overall the popular vote in their state and send their own state electors to washington. that prospect, if there is a public education component to that sort of telling people, that that's the plan, that they are investing again, potentially it has the effort, it has the impact of inoculating the public against that kind of a scheme. >> i think there's two parts. a lot of this money will not go to spread that message. so you know, for instance, in pennsylvania, there's a $6 million effort that's been announced by one of these funding groups, efforts, the republican candidate, most of that advertising campaign, door knocking campaign will been issues about abortion and minimum wage and unions, and other issues in democracy. because they have found through their research, these groups, that those are the issues that will move voters. and that's really what this is about, moving voters, getting voters to vote who want

otherwise vote, and in the case of hoffman's group, dissuading republicans from voting republican. i think you're right, i think there will be a lot of education around this but in a lot of cases it won't be the primary thing and i think a lot of voters getting messages from these groups won't know the underlying idea behind the money being spent, which is to try and protect the 2024 democratic process. >> except for the fact that you're letting the cat out of the bag with this excellent reporting which has its own public education component to it. michael, national political reporter for the "washington post," thank you for joining us. well done. >> thank you so much. we'll be right back, stay with us. one. >> thank you so much. we'll be right back, stay with us.

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it's unbeatable internet for a more unbeatable gru. i mean, you. there will be another hearing of the january 6th investigation tomorrow afternoon. tomorrow's hearing will focus on trump's efforts to use the justice department as part of his plot to overthrow the

government. this will be the final hearing before the committee picks up again we think in mid july. supposed to be the last one for a while. the hearing all starts at 3:00 p.m. eastern, and then tomorrow night starting at 8:00, we will have our prime time recap of what happened. i'll here for that along with a bus load of my colleagues. >> "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. a tense oval office meeting three days before the attack on the capitol will play a major role in today's fifth hearing into donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we have a good idea of what the former justice department officials who attended that meeting will say when they testify later this afternoon. plus, the school district police chief blamed for the botched response in the uvalde school massacre now placed on administrative leave. we'll have the latest. and stunning underwater photos of an american swimmer being rescued