welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at reagan national airport. >> it looks kind of grim on the east coast today, mika. >> but it is 6:00 a.m. out west. the day is fresh out there. we have a lot to get to this hour. today at the fifth public hearing the house committee

investigating the january 6 capitol riot will unveil new evidence of how donald trump tried to get the justice department to help overturn the 2020 election. and keep him in power. despite the fact that he lost. three former top doj officials are slated to testify. also a slew of new information and evidence has forced the committee to postpone two future hearings. and the latest from the senate, which is set to pass the first major new gun legislation in years. we'll get the latest when senator tim kaine joins us and jerome powell heads to the house for testimony as the administration continues to battle inflation. we'll play for you the warning one democratic senator had for him. please don't drive this economy off a cliff.

willie. >> we want to begin with the fifth and final june hearing of the january 6 house select committee set to get underway in a few hours now. today's focus, former president trump's pressure campaign on the department of justice. the house committee will seek to make this man jeffrey clark something of a household name. he is the environmental lawyer who former president trump wanted to take over the justice department to help in his scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 election. if trump had gotten his way, clark would have replaced then acting attorney general jeffrey rosen who resisted trump's pressure campaign. rosen is one of three key witnesses scheduled to testify at today's hearing along with his deputy richard donaghue and also expected to testify, assistance a.g. for the office of legal council, steve engle. all were present during a meeting days before the january 6 attack. they're expected to testify trump's efforts to replace rosen and to make clark the acting

attorney general. and their threats to quit if he did that. and we'll learn today's hearing will be last to take place this month. the january 6 committee postponing the next two hearings that were set for next week. those now will take place later in july. chairman bennie thompson said the panel has received additional information and evidence which will require additional time to work through. he also added more hearings to the schedule is a possibility. joining us now, democratic senator tim kaine of virginia. senator, good morning. a lot to talk to you about. but as the select committee closes this chapter, this june chapter of hearings, i'm curious what you make of what you've seen and whether you think there is enough there to indict president trump or others in the administration? >> willie, i have paid pretty close attention to it. and even though i was here that day, and was barricaded in the capitol in a way that i'm never going to forget, in a way that

has really changed my outlook on my job and my country and my own responsible, there were new things that i found very powerful. the degree to which donald trump was willing to put mike pence's life and health in danger after pence had been slavishly loyal to him for four years was shocking. and the testimony a couple of days ago of these election workers about what it feels like as a volunteer or a low level staffer to have the president and his cronies target you and leave you open to violence, that was incredibly powerful testimony. >> we had your colleague senator durbin on last week and he said plainly, i'm watching this. i see conclusive evidence and i hope the department of justice sees it that way. do you hope the attorney general takes up this case? >> i think he has to. i think he has to. i think the evidence is there. and you know, there is a lot of

debate during the impeachment proceedings about of president trump that president's get immunity during think time in office for legal proceedings by the doj or others but that immunity expires once they are out and i think the facts are clearly on the table without being a criminal lawyer myself, what exactly might be the federal code provision. but i think facts are clearly on the table. that would suggest that the president and others engaged in a massive conspiracy including being willing to count and encourage violence to overturn an election and disenfranchise 80 million people who voted for joe biden and kamala harris. there has to be some accountability for that. >> so, senator, the evidence that the american people have seen obviously compelling. the numbers of americans watching these hearings, i think it surprised everybody including members of the committee themselves. i'm curious, any evidence that

your republican colleagues in the senate are finding this evidence compelling, that they are more concerned today than they were in the past about what donald trump did in this final weeks, final months in office? >> joe, i wish i could say yes. but my republican colleagues are really trying hard to not pay attention to this. i mean, obviously there was a fork in the road and in about march of 2021 where we had a vote in the senate about whether this commission would be scrupulously nonpartisan and equally divided democrat and republican and both houses. the arrangement was you couldn't even subpoena one page of a document or a witness unless there was a majority vote. meaning there had to be bipartisan support for it. the republicans closed ranks here and said that is not what we want. i think we were able to get eight republicans to say, yes, we should be able to do this. but 42 said no. the last thing we want is a scrupulously nonpartisan analysis of this once in a

lifetime, once of in a history attack on the capitol. they're trying to ignore it. so you hear nothing from my colleagues about any of the january 6 evidence because they want to ignore it. they hope it is going to go away. you can't do this and have there been no consequence attached to an effort to violently over turn a peaceful selection. >> i just don't know how you ignore that and still have credibility. even if you're in the right-wing media and you're viewers, are they going to see you as credible. you're not covering it as news. but let's move on to guns where there is bipartisan agreement to an extent. >> absolutely. >> and in just hours the next key procedural vote of the bipartisan gun safety bill is scheduled to take place in the senate. today's motion is expected to pass. that would then be followed up by 30 hours of debate before a final passage vote which is now

expected tomorrow afternoon. but the issue, senator, is senators could agree to vote on to before that. >> correct. >> despite a roughly a third of the senate republican conference hoping to advance the legislation earlier this week, far fewer republicans in the house are expected to support the bill. and nbc news has learned at a closed door meeting on wednesday house minority leader kevin mccarthy and minority whip steve scalise told house republicans that they oppose the measure. politico reports that scalise will whip republicans in the house to vote against this senate agreement. potentially leaving just 15 to 20 house republicans to support the legislation. the congressional budget office released a cost estimate showing the gun safety bill will be fully paid for, the cbo estimated it would reduce the deficit over 10 years by $154 million.

and there is that and a lot more. what are you your hopes that this makes it through both -- all of the halls of congress without changing? >>a, i've waited a long time for a vote like this. i was the governor when the worst shooting in the history of the united states at that time happened in virginia tech. and this is going to sound weird to say being the governor of virginia, i hope that would always be the worst shooting in the history of united states. there would never be one that would be worse than that. but then subsequent events, there have been shootings that have claimed even more victims. vegas and parkland and sandy hook, and pulse nightclub and then milwaukee and texas. but i've waited a long time for congress to get rid of the gag rule about guns and grow a backbone and do something about guns and i'm really excited about the vote today. you're right, if the republicans who oppose the bill want to use up 30 hours to say why they want to oppose it, then we would likely have the final vote

tomorrow night. they could give some of that time back. you might see a final vote late this evening. could be tomorrow morning. but we do feel on the cusp of something very positive. not everything that i might want. but very positive and bipartisan. it is going to passion through the house with minimal republican support. it is going to get to president biden's desk and congress will have shown that we're finally listening to people who have been asking us for decades to do something about this unacceptable splurge of gun violence. >> listening and acting. democratic senator tim kaine of virginia, thank you. very good to see you, sir. >> good to be with you. thanks. >> and we'll have much more ahead on today's fifth public hearing on the insurrection of january 6 including exclusive pictures obtained by nbc news from a documentary filmmaker embedded with the trumps in the days leading up to january 6. former adviser to the committee denver riggleman will be our

guest. also ahead, president biden announcing his push for a gas tax holiday and some democrats in congress announced they're push back against it. plus, as fed chair jerome powell prepared to testify for a second day, does he need to take drastic action to cause a recession. is that the only solution? we're back in a moment. t the on? we're back in a moment and in it. mostly. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour.

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i fully understand that a gas tax holiday alone is not going to fix the problem. but it will provide families some immediate relief just a little bit of breathing room as we continue working to bring down prices for the long haul. >> that was president biden yesterday calling for a federal gas tax holiday. but with inflation pushing up prices across the board, he acknowledges that the measure would not have a huge impact of

things. if congress were to go along it would suspend the federal gas tax for three months saving drivers about 18 cents a gallon or regular and 24 cents a gallon on diesel. and the president asking states to suspend their own gas taxes. but lawmakers mostly not on board with the idea. it is unlikely that congress will make it happen and not just republican lawmakers by the way. some of the president's own administration. his speech is already having little impact on the futures market with the dow set to jump slightly at the opening. joining us now, from "the new york times," co-anchor of squawk box, andrew ross sorkin and business insider lynette lopez who covered politics and international marks. good morning to you both. lynette, let me begin with you sitting here with me in the studio. the gas tax holiday means what for the average consumer, if it happens and it may not. >> i, you know, i agree with all of the people who are saying that this is kind of a -- and i hate to use this word -- nothing

burger. it will not help so much. and i think what president biden is trying to do to-s show he's on top of the problem and cares deeply about it and trying to use the limits of his office. i think we're an affordable crisis right now and so a lot of his previous policy ideas that he can't get through congress like helping people with childcare and stuff, that would be more helpful around the margins for this inflation situation. but, i don't think that he's going to get that out of congress. so he's doing whatever he can and it is just not going to be enough. >> andrew, we're hearing even from some democrats, nancy pelosi, steny hoyer, and others who have been luke warm around this, they want to support the president but they've been on the on the record saying it is not going to do much so what is the reaction on wall street and what does this do for the economy if anything? >> the reaction on wall street has been to yawn for the most part. and think it goes to the same issue that i'm actually

surprised at nancy pelosi and others inside of the party haven't been more supportive because i would have thought at minimum is this idea that the president wants to show i'm doing something and come november and the midterms, i want to at least be able to point to something and say we tried this or at least we tried to help the american people. again, it is very dominimous. it is a minimal piece of help and more of a theatrics than anything else. but by the way, we shouldn't poo-poo it completely. the american public would benefit slightly. but it is fots going to change the larger equation or change what may oi or may not happen to our economy, what jerome powell is likely going to have to continue to do to try to slow things down here. >> yeah, i'm a little concerned about major press availability announcing federal gas tax holidays. you could announce it. but it is again, it is such a

huge piece that will make a major move. we're also watching capitol hill and in less than an hour fed chair jerome powell will testify before the house financial services committee. it comes after he testified on the senate side yesterday and warned that a recession is quote, certainly a possibility due to the fed rates' hikes. with senators like elizabeth warren putting him on notice. >> chair powell, will gas prices go down as a result of your interest rate increase. >> i would not think so, no. >> chair powell, will the interest rate bring food prices down for families? >> i won't say so, no. >> you know what is worse than high inflation and low unemployment, it is high inflation and a recession with millions people out of work. and i hope you'll reconsider that as you drive this -- before you drive this economy off a cliff.

>> so, andrew, what are the options beyond raising rates or even almost forcing a recession on the u.s. -- >> well, look, elizabeth warren would continue to let the economy run hot. and there is not many others. >> right. what is the other options. >> i hate to say it, if stability is what you're trying to do and trying to bring down inflation, the only way to do is to, i hate to say it, to topple the economy into a recession but try to slow things down. it is almost impossible to do that without forcing a recession. and at the end of day, that is probably what has to happen. that is not -- >> because what happens if you don't do it? what happens if you don't do? what happens if you don't do it? >> i think you continue to have some skyrocketing inflation story and long-term that is a much higher tax on the american people because it is something

that could get completely and utterly out of control. we haven't got into the out of control situation and what ma thiens long-term to the u.s. economy and what it means to our ability to pay our debts, all of that comes very complicated if raetzs continue to go up, up. >> you're writing about this in your new lead. wall street is afraid the economy has entered an inflation feedback loop from hell in which wages and prices push each other up until the federal reserve forced to do something drastic, cause a recession. is that where we are. >> -- that might push us into a recession? >> that is a nightmare. inflation is just not about a dislocation of supply and demand, now it is a psychological thing where everybody is worried that prices are going up so they raise their prices and then it is on and on and on. this is something that could only be broken by a shock to the system. that is what happened in the 1980s and that is what wall street fears is the situation

right now. now, if it is not that situation, then we'll see inflation has peaked, we'll see it start going down and people do this merry-go-round of job searching they've been doing. but if the nightmare is real. and if we are in a wage price spiral, then it is very possible that the fed has to raise rates really, really high in a way that shocks the economy. remember, the fed has two mandates. one is to keep unemployment low and the other is price stability. and if we don't think prices are going to be tomorrow what they are today, that creates an unstable society. it is like building our economy on a bunch of sand. like a bunch of quick sand. because everybody is constantly going to be pushing their prices up. that is what andrew is talking about. is this kind of scary situation that the fed is trying to prevent. the fed would like us to go back to an economy like what we had before the pandemic where wages were rising, and there was a

little bit of inflation but the wages were going up faster. now we can't keep up. and that just means that the longer this goes on, the more desperate and the more difficult the situation is going to get. for individuals and so i understand that this is not what anyone wants to hear. the fed is like taking a machete to a patient instead of a scalpel. if you want to target people who are in a tough situation, you would help the poorest americans with energy and food prices because that is where their wallets are going to hurt. but we have a congress that doesn't do things like that. that doesn't make common sense policies like that. it is very silly. so now they're throwing this all on the federal reserve which has this blunt street, this huge machete it will use to hack away at the patient while we figure that out instead of congress taking the scalpel and saying hey poor people need helps and

let's help them. >> what a terrible position to in. to stall the economy to save it effectively. business insider lynette lopez and cnbc's andrew ross sorkin. good to see you. coming up next, new fallout in uvalde, texas. pete air dondso placed on administrative leave after calling the response to the school shooting an abject failure. we'll dig into that story. plus five retired generals write the greatest threat to our country is now domestic, not foreign. they describe the pledge they think every elected official should be signed in order to save our democracy. that is an op-ed we'll read for you briefly. and in about half an hour, documentary alex holder will testify behind closed doors to the january 6 committee about the more than 11 hours of interviews he conducted with former president trump and his inner circle. former solicitor general neal

katyal will tell us how that could play into the future criminal case against donald trump, if there is one. "morning joe" is coming right back. trump, if there is one "morning joe" is coming right "morning joe" is coming right back subway keeps refreshing and refreshing and re- if you have copd, ask your doctor about breztri. breztri gives me better breathing and helps prevent flare-ups. before breztri, i was stuck in the past. i still had bad days, (coughing) flare-ups, which kept me from doing what i love. my doctor said for my copd, it was time for breztri. ♪♪ breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. like no other copd medicine, breztri was proven to reduce flare-ups by 52%. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it.

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developments in the uvalde, texas, case as the community continues to reel after last month's school shooting. the mayor announced yesterday that the robb elementary school building will be demolished. and now the embattled school district police chief pete arredondo, he's out. and nbc news correspondent sam brock has the details. >> reporter: a bombshell development. in grief-stricken uvalde. last night the superintendent revealing the school police chief pete arredondo is being placed on administrative leave. in part because of the lack of clarity that remains and the unknown timing of when they will receive the results of the investigation. as frustration has reached a boiling point. >> i have to answer to a bunch of bureaucrats up there that haven't been doing their damn job. that is why we're calling them out today. >> the city's mayor blasting the state for calling the police response to the school shooting an abject failure.

without also highlighting their own wrongs. >> everybody in that hall needs to answer what went on in that hall. not just pete arredondo, not just local uvalde police department. >> roll land guiterrez has filed a lawsuit against dps requesting 911 audio recordings police body cameras and surveillance footage. >> nbc's sam brock with that report. and in just minutes, document arian alex holder will testify behind closed door about the more than 11 hours of interviews he conducted with former president trump and his inner circle in the days leading up to the january 6 insurrection. moments ago, we just got a brand-new trailer for his explosive film. and exclusive photos he shared with only nbc news. this all comes as we look ahead to today's fifth public hearing starting in just a few hours from now. a former adviser to that

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live look at los angeles. beautiful day out there. 6:34 a.m. out west. 9:34 on the east coast. as we continue with the fourth hour of "morning joe." there is an op-ed in this morning's usa today entitled we fought to defend democracy. this new threat to america now keeps us awake at night. it is written by five retired u.s. air force and army generals and lieutenant generals. including cia director michael hayden, lieutenant general james clapper, general stanley mcchrystal. and they write in part, quote, today, we harbor unprecedented concern for our country and for

our democracy. the nation we have defended for decades is in real peril. for those of us devoted to protecting democracies abroad, there comes a time when our efforts seem overshadowed by the erosion of democracy here at home. and for those of us focused on domestic security, the forces of autocracy now trump traditional foreign threats hands down. the safe and fair elections pledge by team democracy, asks all americans to come together on an important piece of common ground. a safe place where regardless of political persuasion, we could agree to embrace the most fundamental cornerstones of our democracy by committing ourselves to elections that are both secure and accessible and assuring the peaceful transition of power according to the rule

of law. we are proud to have signed this nonpartisan declaration and we encourage every local state and federal official to make the same commitment. willie. >> again, those are some of the most prominent names in the united states military and national security. in less than one hour, the january 6 house select committee is set to hear testimony from british filmmaker alex holder during a closed-door deposition. holder is behind a new docuseries called unprecedented in which his team was given access to the white house from september of 2020 right up until former president trump's left office. holder said the footage includes never before seen material from january 6th. and we actually just got the trailer in moments ago. here is a first look. ♪♪ >> okay. >> my father, he's very honest

and he's who he is. >> he believes everything that he's doing is right. >> i don't treat people well unless they treat me well, in which case you go to war. >> holder, the filmmaker's deposition comes hours before the committee holds the fifth and final hearing before july. it is set to focus on trump's efforts to pressure the justice department to overturn the 2020 election along with how he allegedly used it for his own personal means. committee chair bennie thompson said it will include conversations about pardons with three top department of justice officials from the trump administration said to testify this afternoon. joining us now, former republican congressman denver riggleman who advised the committee. former solicitor general and msnbc legal analyst neal katyal and "new york times" justice department reporter and msnbc contributor katie benner. good morning to you all. katie, wapt to start with you to

set the stage for what we're going to see today. we got that reporting last week from "the washington post" about that meeting inside of the oval office with the three witnesses that we're going to see today and president trump and jeffrey clark, an environmental lawyer at the department of justice is trying to take over the doj by supporting donald trump's fantasy about the 2020 election having been rigged. so what do you expect to hear from the witnesses today? >> sure, so much of what we're going to hear today has been previously reported. certainly there was somebody inside of the justice department named jeffly clark, who was trying to install as the attorney general in order to enact various plans that would help donald trump undo the election including sending letters to states lake georgia falsely stating investigated fraud claims and felt there was merit to them. that wooz not true. nobody at justice department felt that but that is the plan that jeffrey clark wanted to enact. we should see more details of

this today. things that reporters have not yet drudges up. and we should see more about various characters that we've only heard a little bit about including ken cowski, installed in the justice department weeks before this all went down. and people like representative perry from pennsylvania who was also working with trump allies in order to make this plan happen. >> congressman riggleman, what will you be watching for today. the tick tock of this meeting is extraordinary. the culminating with the acting attorney general turning to jeffrey clark and saying beat it. if there is an oil spill, we'll let you know other wise you have no business in the conversation. you advised the committee in recent months. what should we expect to see today and what changes the tide of this conversation, what new light will be shed here? >> here, i think what is interesting today, is again how important mark meadows was to this investigation. when you look at jeffrey clark and what he had in the text

messages and given to the committee has provided the framework and how the committee could push forward and identify the individuals around jeffrey clark. right in front of us we could see people like scott perry and representatives pushing these keep of conspiracy theories and the individuals that would support them. so as we go forward today and there is one thing that i want to talk about with the american public and the word that you need to look for is coordination. how many people were a part of this. who were the individuals who are on team normal, i use that in quotes. the team normal individuals are the people giving the actual advice that is real and rational and realistic as oppose to those turning something out of a fantasy novel based an that it was stolen because of hugo chavez or ukraine or romania or the seven or eight countries that were part of this. and also if you look at what is happening today, is that you even had individuals, i think you might here today, who were blaming the brits for actually

interacting with our cia to determine the election. this is the kind of things that we're going to see and it goes to the importance of individuals who talked to the committee and those maybe even an add vertently who gave information that could be very damaging to the president, to the former president's case. >> so neal, you recently wrote a piece for "the new york times" entitled "the future criminal case against donald trump" and it reads in part, congress could not bring criminal charges. justice department must do so. and critics of the department are asking why it does not appear to be investigating these allegations. the hearings point to a potential answer. the committee is laying a foundation upon which prosecutors could build in a subsequent investigation. you go on to write public hearings serve as subtle function. they permit the minds of american people to acculturate to the facts and evidence by

laying out the facts that explain what mr. trump did, the january 6 hearings can in advance help acclimate the public to why the justice department has to take criminal action against the former president trump. the hearings may afford the department a deeper and public explanation of the reasoning than an indictment out of the blue would offer. public sentiment of this kind could help insolate the department against a claim that it is politically motivated. these hearings may prove to be a bridge between the justice department and the public. and neal, just in terms of your knowledge of the entire presidency that we've analyzed together, and the law, does it seem likely that something will come out of this pertaining to january 6? >> i do. i think it is unthinkable to not have that happen. particularly in the wake of the

hearing. so let's take today's hearing. katie and the congressman have been eloquent in talking about how the hearings will focus on this plot by trump and this justice department lawyer jeffrey clark to basically, it was a plot for the fake lectors, kick up enough dust over the election and then pence could call it for trump on january 6. that is the plan. and katie and the congressman have talked about how the hearings will focus on that. but it will focus on one other thing. the reaction by the justice department officials once they learned of that donald trump/jeffrey clark plot. because the committee has evidence that this entire mass leadership of the jifs department would resign. the white house council office would resign. and you could imagine how bad you must be just how evil to get yourin tire justice department and white house council staff to mass resign. let's be clear.

those folks were not the deep state or anything. they were all trumps hand-picked people. and even by the bottom feeder standard of the trump justice department, trump couldn't keep them on board. why is that important? it is important for many reasons. but if you think about a criminal case and criminal intent, that very fact that trump was told, look, everybody is going to resign if you push this nonsense, and he still adheres to the nonsense. that is at least willful blindness if not direct malicious intent. it is hard for a tough prosecution and the attorney general is never indicted a former president before but the evidence is all there and the effect on the rule of law if you don't indict is dramatic. >> it is such a good point. after bill barr step as side, in come the trump loyalist and those are the ones that stood up to him in the oval office meeting. i'm curious what you think about the fraud case or the wire fraud case potentially against donald trump and others that we've been

hearing that has laid out explicitly in some of the hearings where they said wee need your money trump supporters because we're going to fight this election. we're going overturn the election. send us $20, $100 whatever you could send us to the tune of $250 million. but it turns out, according to committee and the evidence that they've presented, there was no such organization and that money went to other places like paying donald trump's legal bills. is that fraud to you? do you see a case there for doj? >> yeah, it doesn't appear to be a hard case. trump university, again, but obviously with much higher stakes and our friend barbara mcquade, an msnbc analyst has written a great piece about this. i will say, however, i have trouble thinking that is where the prosecution alone should be. give me a charge. but that does not capture it all. the gravity of what donald trump tried to do to our democracy. yes, he tried to defraud people, but he also tried to defraud the united states government of a free and fair election and orderly transfer of power and

that is where i think the focus needs to be. >> well to that point, the justice department appears now to be ramping up an investigation into trump campaign fake lectors scheme. federal agents investigating the attack issued new subpoenas just yesterday in at least two states according to "the washington post." one subpoena went to a senior official in the georgia republican party. people familiar with the investigation tell the post he served as a trump elector in that state. two people familiar with the matter, subpoenas were sent to a georgia lawyer who signed a document claiming to be a trump elector and to a virginia man who worked on the trump campaign efforts in arizona and in new mexico. so katie, just plain english, what are we talking about here when we say trump fake electors. what is the department of justice looking into it. >> sure. so let's step back. in the midst of the post election period it was extremely chaotic. there were many plans to

overturn the election. one of them was to have slates of electors, alternates as people inside of trump world put it who would say that key swing states had in fact voted for donald trump rather than joe biden. the slates of electors were false. the allegations, what they would say which is that biden had lost was also false. and yet the documents were created, they were sent to the federal government and they were sent to congress. and in several key swing states. that act in and of itself is illegal. it is illegal to send false documentation to make false testimony to the federal government. so right there, there is predicate to investigate this crime. now what the justice department is going to want to do, and we're also seeing little bits about this with the subpoenas. they will reach out to the people who signed the documents and say why did you do this. was this something you did on your own, of your own volition or does you do it because

somebody else told you to and what did they tell you. we've seen this come out in the testimony around the january 6 committee as well. we're hearing a lot from state officials, we heard this week about the pressure campaign on them and we've heard from the closed door testimony that people like john eastman, a lawyer close to trump, they were actually saying privately that they knew this scheme was unlawful but publicly telling people to do it anyway. so what the dep is going to want to do is talk to the witnesses and say why did you participate, who told you what to do and they could see them building a case and moving up the chain from the people who signed the fake documents, on its face illegal act to see if they could make a case against others. >> denver riggleman, we've seen in these hearings some incredible testimony from people who have told the truth about what happened and talked about what they could and could not do and what they told the president or rudy giuliani and we've had a lot of conversations about the

gentleman from arizona rusty bowers, who spoke so eloquently will the constitution being divinely inspired and really part of the very core of could defy the constitution. and then a couple hours later he also says he would vote for trump again if he ran. can you help me understand this mindset? i do think -- i mean, i always kind of feel like we're talking about a cult. am i missing something? what is it that you will have someone try and defy corruptly defy, possibly, probably breaking the law, to defy the constitution of the united states of america, but you'd vote for him again? >> it's hard to square, isn't it? the thing is if the constitution is divinely inspired, you have an individual who wants to

trample on the constitution, i would think the divinely inspired would win over voting for the tribe that you are to be assigned to. i was raised very religiously. to be honest with you, i was raised in the same religion as rusty. i tell people i'm a distiller now so you can see that might have changed. this is a battle between good and evil for a lot of individuals. despite facts, despite what's right in front of them, they will vote for the tribe because there's a struggle they believe against globalists, satanists, that type. i briefed general hayden for the first time in 1992 at the national security. he allowed us to do things for the first time. now we're looking at that very type of combination false data was pushed into the ecosystem of republican voters and they sort of bought it, hook, line and sinker, this was the good

against evil type of struggle. what bothered me the most is how to combat that. today to hear eloquent people talk about this today, what are we going to see today? the fact is it's come full circle. now those alternate electors, if that would have succeeded, this bizarre sort of scheme, there were individuals who asked for nsa to be involved against these to mark meadows. again, there are so many layers, so many levels and so much data. it's just incredible to see general hayden, who i briefed in 2002 and was at nsa to come full circle. now we're in this real data war where people, sadly like rusty bowers, you know, honestly believes that even though the divinely inspired document was trampled upon, he has to vote for his tribe and i think that's a real issue in the united states of america today. >> yeah, it certainly is. former congressman, denver riggleman, former acting

solicitor general neil, and new york times justice department report, katie, thank you for your insights this morning. coming up next, a look at other stories making front page headlines across the country, including a three-letter word that's having a big impact in the college world. we'll explain that. and an energy bar now worth $3 billion? we're back in a moment. billion we're back in a moment you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body.

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that makes working from home, work. it syncs with your favorite vc apps so you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. meta portal, make working from home work for you. beautiful shot of dallas, texas, this morning. a few minutes before the top of the hour. welcome back. a look now at the stories making front page headlines across the country. many of the morning papers are celebrating title 9, the landmark legislation that banned discrimination based on sex, signed by president nixon 50 years ago today. washington spokesman review highlights the impact on women's sports through the lens of former washington state university athletes who took the university to court years after the law was signed to ensure women had equal access. former track star, karen

trianell tells the paper she still cries tears of joy any time she watches the girls state cross-country meet. i do get that a lot. to tennessee where the times news has a front page story about the husband and wife team behind cliff bar. agreeing to sell the energy bar company to food giant mondolese international for nearly $3 billion. $3 billion. the acquisition of the privately held company comes as mondalese looks to expand its global snack bar business. that's a lot of bucks. >> that's a good bar. good for them. the cleveland plain dealer has the story today, the ohio state university now officially has earned a trademark for the word "the." the u.s. patent and trademark office approved it for t-shirts

and caps for that single word whether spelled in capital or lower case. "the" is worth about $12.5 million in annual sales for the school. that does it for us this morning. in a few minutes, the supreme court will release more of its decisions with 13 cases to be decided, including the key abortion case many people are waiting and watching. coming up this afternoon, complete coverage of the final hearing of the january 6th select committee in the month of june before a break. a lot to get to for jose diaz-balart, and on this day on msnbc. he'll bring it to you live when he picks up the coverage in just a moment. picks up the coveraget a moment

i'm jose diaz-balart. right now we are closely watching the supreme court for any major decisions that could come down at any moment, including a landmark ruling on abortion. this morning we're breaking down everything you need to know ahead of the january 6th hearing where lawmakers on the panel seek to show just how close the u.s. came to a constitutional crisis. and right now, lawmakers running against the clock to pass that major piece of bipartisan legislation addressing rising gun violence before the july 4th recess. meanwhile in texas, uvalde school police chief now on administrative leave as the community learns stunning new details about the police response to last month's shooting. in ukraine, russian forces say they achieved a tactical breakthrough in the eastern