good day from washington, everyone. welcome to a special edition, a saturday edition of andrew mitchell reports. we've got a lot of big breaking news. we begin with, while abortion opponents are celebrating a long shot victory, public averages going across the u.s. among abortion rights supporters. on the heels of the supreme court's decision to overturn roe v. wade. and cities across the country, protesters gathering to rally for a second day, after massive demonstrations on friday. this morning, pro and anti abortion rights activists clashing in front of the high court, shouting chance at each

other. >> my body my choice. my body, my choice. my body, my choice. my body, my choice. >> as of today, abortion is banned and at least nine states with trigger bands and several more said to take effect in the near future. president biden speaking earlier about the landmark ruling. >> my administration is going to focus on how they administer and whether or not they violate other laws by deciding not to allow people to cross state lines to get to public health services. and then we are going to take action to protect women's rights to reproductive health. >> do you think the supreme court is broken in your view? >> i think the supreme court has made some terrible decisions. >> those remarks coming as the president signed the bipartisan gun safety bill into law today. the first gun legislation in nearly 30 years.

to reform gun laws, the long cleats enhanced background checks for people under 21, funding for mental health and school safety, and standards for states to implement so-called red flag laws, and limits on the boyfriend loophole. right now, president biden and the first lady are heading to germany. they left washington this morning to attend the annual g7 conference, the summit of world leaders. and joining me now, msnbc's yasmin vossoughian outside the supreme court, and kathleen park in -- and just correspond people williams. yasmin, first to you. what's the scene like that right now? >> andrea, let me just take you through some of the credit we've been experiencing, here throughout the morning. i will tell you, andrea, just before i start. i was here when this was initially leaked, and it was emotional, it was visceral, there were a lot of people out here, thousand people at her protesting. this is a bit of a different scene that we saw the last time around. it is more emotional, it is more visceral, because people

understand this is now the lava land after the decision was released yesterday in the supreme court. let me just take you through the crowd, because it is a bit of a standoff, and people stay with me as we work through here. it is a bit of a standoff, on the interior of the crowd, andrea. the surround this way, you have people that are advocating for the decision that was released by the supreme court yesterday, surrounding them are folks that are advocating for women's rights. it has been a shout of, it has been a standoff as well. people saying my body my choice. some of the signage, here as outside it said ruth sent me as well. controlled guns, right here, not women. courts referencing the decision that was released on thursday by the supreme court versus the decision it was released on friday. this is a multi level protest, andrea. and let's walk this way a little bit, because this crowd is growing minute by minute. and when i say this is a multi level protest, it is not just about abortion rights here,

it's about the possibility of a slippery slope. of course referring to the comments made in the majority opinion by justice clarence thomas. along with other decisions that we made a released by the supreme court over the last couple of days, references made guns obviously, following the mass shootings in both buffalo and uvalde texas. as well, these people are impassioned. they want change, it doesn't seem like they're going anywhere as well. i asked a lot of folks throughout the day, and we're gonna be showing this or the next couple of hours, i asked them what needs to change, when needs to be done, how do you change things for women going forward. everyone now saying, they need to get out and vote. democrats need to get out and vote. i also asked them specifically, do you feel as if democrats grew apathetic towards an issue, as if nothing will actually happen, there will actually not be overturned. and they said, exactly right. they felt as if democrats took root for granted. and now, they feel as if they don't they have arrived here because of the inaction of democrats. along with the action of the

republican legislature, as well. and they were that that same sort of thing will happen when it comes to contraception, the president that was that when it comes to marriage equality, and so on and so forth. i'm gonna be speaking with a biracial couple, andrea, in just a couple minutes. i'm going to have a one-on-one conversation with them, who are worried about marriage equality here in this country, they're worried about marriage and general being a biracial country couple. and you are gonna want to hear that interview as well. and i know andrea, we have to talk through the intricacies of this opinion, but i wanna talk back to you so when you take us through that. >> thank you so much yasmin, you are right there grounds-year-old and we'll be checking back in just a few moments. joining us, now nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. of course, has been covering this issue for decades at the supreme court, and all the legislative action as well. pete, this is the endgame here. and let's take us throughthe decision itself, and what was

so unusual about it in clarence thomas and's particular arguments. >> well what's unusual about the decision is it's us that there is no right to abortion. roe v. wade was a egregiously decide. and what the majority says here is that, the problem is you can't find a right either expressly in the constitution for abortion, or by looking at any of the other constitutional protections, including the 14th amendments guarantee of due process of law. the test according to justice samuel leader, and he attracted the courses for other votes, it was a 54 ruling on this part of the decision, fantasy says it's whether it constitutional rights, or whether a right, was deeply rooted in history and tradition and the central to the concept of liberty. now that is language that the supreme court first articulated many decades ago in a case about assistance to the side, when it says there is no constitutional right to that. that he says is the test, and

therefore he says roe v. wade funds that test. now you mention justice thomas's concurrence, he says i agree with that. and by that same logic, he says, i think we need to examine all of our other presidents that have undergone that similar analysis about substantive due process. contraception's, intimate sexual relations, same sex marriage, deciding where your children are going to school, refusing medical treatment. he says he thinks the court needs to go back to all, and re-examine all the sudden rights. i must say, andrea, i think he is a committee of one on a. he didn't seem to get any other takers for that. in fact, a leader says in his opinion several times, samuel alito who wrote the majority opinion, this is only about abortion. and abortion is different, because it involves a moral question, the taking of a pentimenti life. and brett kavanaugh in his concurrence as much the same thing. he says, this decision today has nothing to do with those other precedents. >> but of, course there's a lot

of skepticism and, lack of respect for the court, frankly. among even senators, who feel that amy klobuchar showed me this yesterday -- others are joining in, on the judiciary committee have susan collins is a critical vote. joe manchin, another critical vote not on the judiciary committee. they feel they were lied to, frankly. because their specific questions and answers in their confirmation hearings, and hundreds have been released by the new york times, which we have not independently confirmed as a private meeting between senator collins and justice capito. where he said, this is a 45-year precedent. at the time was 45 years and, you know he very clearly said he would stick with the president of roe v. wade. they feel misled. >> well you know, i think it's one thing to say your answers the confirmation hearing seemed to say that you would go with the presidents. it's another thing if they were

reassurance giving it a private setting that went beyond that. because i think every republican appointee sort of says basically the same thing about roe v. wade. one of the things that i found puzzling about the decision is, the courts seemed to say, when you look at factors about why you would overturn precedent, and why you would sort of disregard this legal concept called stare decisis, one of the things you look at what is called reliance interest. has the countries relied on this decision, and the supreme court says it is not enough of adult reliance in roe v. wade. i find it a little puzzling given that millions of american women who basically let their lives on the assumption that the right to abortion would be there. you would think that there was heavy reliance. but the majority says no. >> and if you've been pointing out, this is the first time in american history that the court has taken away a constitutional right once conferred. because they're a lot of things that were not in the constitution. >> yeah, the first time it has taken one way that is broadly

accepted and widely recognized. there was a time, more than a century ago, when the court said there is a constitutional right to enter into contracts, and then it later took that away. that was a very technical thing that apply to businesses. this was a right that millions of american women had depended on. it was widely recognized. so they have never done that before. >> and this, certainly as you get all feels open pointing out and of your reporting, this is a supermajority now. and this is an indication of the future. and justice roberts, the chief, doesn't really have control of the court. >> well, he didn't do a lot of this one. he did go along with them however on the gun decision on thursday. and that was also a product of the courts supermajority. and i think, one thing that has not found a lot of attention about that, not only did the court say the new york law has to be struck down because it required some special showing to get a permit to have a concealed weapon, so the court says is, in the future going forward, when you consider one courts consider whether to uphold gun legislation, they have to look at whether the

restrictions have a historic antecedent in the nation's history, and the nation's founding almost. that is a pretty strict test. and i think there are many people who say, there are now going to be lots of new challenges to gun laws based on the supreme court decision. >> big week in the supreme court. and they still have a couple of decisions left to come before the end of the month. >> yes we're going to get more decisions on. monday >> will be ready, i know you'll be. there thanks so much pete williams, thanks for taking us. off and let's head back to yasmin vossoughian in front of the supreme court. yasmin, i know there are plenty reactions to this decision from across the country and certainly where you are on both sides. >> yeah, there certainly is plenty of reaction. i will say this, andrea, just weighing in on the conversation you are having with pete there, and i will say that many people feel here as if this was a highly political. and they also don't necessarily trust that judge thomas is a party one, they feel as if that

type of thinking may have been one of the reasons why this country is where it is now, andrew has in fact been overturned. i also want to warn viewers throughout this coverage of this protest, there's a lot of expletives being used, a lot of expletives written signs. so kind of a pre-warning to you on that, because there are some things we can't necessarily avoid escaping the landscape of this whole story. we talk about a monday of the states that were planning on banning abortions outright. 13 of them having trigger laws in place, up to 26 states possibly having a ban on abortion when all said and done. a lot of folks waking up to that, this morning. newspapers across the country referencing the decision made here by the supreme court, released here on friday morning. and of course, the clinic at the center of this case, andrea, is in jacksonville. that's where we find kathy parks in jackson mississippi. kathy, talk to us about what is happening on the ground there? >> yasmin, that is absolutely right. so we are right in front of the

last abortion clinic here in this iffy, and as you mentioned, there is a trigger law here in the state of mississippi. so essentially the days are left numbered for this clinic. we have been told that protesters on both sides of this very divisive issue, happen out since around 4:00 this morning. it is getting heated at times, and that is why we are also seeing the police activity, as well to kentucky to come. but earlier today, we have a chance to speak with both sides of the advocates on both sides of this issue. take a listen. >> obviously we are happy about it but they are still killing babies in there. it is still going. on >> i think there's a lot of tension yesterday. we have a lot of them out here with the -- foreign yesterday but we don't have the ladders every day. and you know, there are a lot more aggressive. >> and as i mentioned, this is a trigger law so what does that exactly mean? here in the state of mississippi, essentially there

is a ten-day window for the attorney general to certify that decision the came down by the supreme court and all signs seem to suggest that this will be official in a matter of days. so that means, this clinic will be closing its doors. however they knew this day could potentially come. so they were working behind the scenes, moving the resources to another location in new mexico. so they will be working with another clinic there, and directing women to gain access to abortions legally, and safely at that location. they are also telling people that they are raising funds to help those women here in mississippi, and beyond, to gain access to abortion services. yasmin. >> kathy, you mentioned the sage of new mexico being a safe harbor for zone for a lot of women. i actually just visited our bulky last week traveling with phony young women from dallas texas over to albuquerque we're seeking an abortion. they were sponsored by a church in dallas. i made the whole travel with

them over 24 hour period, and we showing that at the top of my show in the 3 pm hour. so, it just expects my you know my memory in your mention of course of the state of new mexico, and how that is going to be a safe harbor zone as we look at the entire country and what impact will be banned in what states. want to talk to ashley and michael here. you are both married, you have children, and i will also say out great you are an interracial couple. and so you have a lot of concerns now with the decision coming down with the supreme court. talk about why you came down here today. we came down here today because we have two little boys that are wonderful choices we got to make. they deserve better of their country, other officials, and then when we got yesterday. >> what about you, michael? >> i came out here because my whole life i have always taken this as a basic human right. to have it snatched away so quickly by some people that i did not elect, that scares me. i'm scared of the domino effect. what is next?

are you coming for me? are you coming for my gay, lesbian, a trans colleagues? >> it i'm a gay rights and marriage equality, the possibility of a slippery slope and referencing the majority opinion from justice thomas as well and being an interracial couple, is it something that worries you as well by a supreme court that was said in the 1960s? >> any protections that we have that are based on bodily autonomy, privacy, these are all at risk. with our marriage it includes gay marriage, contraception, and so many things that americans are affected by. it is scary. >> are you hopeful for change or hopeless? how are you feeling? >> i am both. i am scared, disillusioned, but i also see everybody out here and there's a lot of us out here. we expect better from our government. this is not right. >> what needs to happen? >> activism, votes, so many voices are here that need to be heard. we cannot go home and argue

with our spouses about it or talk to our girl friends about it. we need to be heard. >> you have to be heard and voting. thank you for sticking around with us on his hot d.c. sun. you heard there from ashley and michael, not only a reaction to the decision here leveled on friday morning, but the slippery slope. the things that could be in the pipeline to come because of the makeup of the supreme court. they feel like how they need to change or affect things is to be heard and vote. >> that is great to hear from you and those voices in your interviews. thank you so much, yasmin. we will be back to you in just a minute. meanwhile, the 5 to 4 decision to overturn roe v. wade was met with a serious dissent from the liberal justices. stephen breyer, sotomayor, and they wrote, whatever the exact scope of the calming a lot, as one result of the day's decision is certain, the curtailment of women's rights and freedom status as --

the ceo of not productive rights represents the jackson women's health organization before the court. the court in the mississippi case. -- warning that women's rights are going to be court tailed. you said this is going to spark a public health emergency. tell us what this looks like from your perspective? >> i'm so glad in your reporting that you look down at the jackson's women health organization, because what is happening for jackson women's health organization and for other clients and clinics that we represent around the country, it is just chaos, confusion, and trying to provide abortion services to the last minute that they can. the reality is yesterday's discussion is going to change peoples lives. some people are not going to be

able to get abortion care, if they cannot travel hundreds or thousands of miles to get from their states. yesterday, we saw the decision. we saw the dissent, you just talked about, that was very strong and clear. women were left out of the equation. one in four women who make the decision in their lifetime to end a pregnancy or are absent from the concerns or considerations. they woke up today with less rights than they had in the past 50 years. >> what happened in mississippi at the jackson health center? >> i'm just saying, today, they have to continue to see patients and deal with the fact with the mississippi trigger a law that will be going into effect, presumably, very shortly now. believe me, legal policy organizations are going to be doing everything we can using every legal lever that we have to stop these laws from going into effect.

they have legal problems with them. they were enacted many years ago. they just spring into effect this way. it is so important that people listening make sure that they are in the states and that they are on the brink of any abortion. did not give up. you need to call the clinics in the states. in the see what's happening. you need to call the abortion funds to see if they can be helped in the state or somewhere else. this is going to be a long, long battle. >> already, that was the only one left in mississippi, if i understood it. this was the only place. the president said today that his administration is determined to protect women's ability to travel to other states. that does not mean, there's a lot of women who do not have childcare, possibilities, they cannot take time off work to travel to hundreds of thousands of miles. protecting them from traveling

across state lines is one thing. mary garland said this as well. this was from the attorney general yesterday. what is about the resources to do that? >> absolutely. it is important that the biden administration also looks into if it is possible to use federal funds to help support both its own employees and those who rely on the federal government for their medical care with travel to other states. luckily, companies are stepping up. we saw a city group and make the decision that their employees will be covered for travel to other states. other companies are going to do this as well. there are also abortion funds. people are going to be donating money and should continue to do so to help people to travel. what's is really in support and good for people to know is that congress has the power to address this. congress has the power to make sure that abortion rights are preserved across the nation. they have taken votes on the women's health protection act.

49 senators voted in favor. the house is passed it. it is time for congress to step in, and protect across the nation, and stop the chaos and the harm or hurt that is coming in the wake of this awful decision. >> thank you very much, nancy northrop. i should point out that they need 60 votes. taking talking to amy, they said it is not going to happen. it is not going to happen in this congress, the 50/50 senate. they say it is an issue for the ballot box. nancy, thank you very much. thank you for being with us from jackson, mississippi. joining me is congresswoman, the democrat from california. it is good to see you. you went to the floor when this came up. now, with the reality, it is basically the law of the land. roe v. wade has been overturned. you talked about what it meant to you personally. tell us about it and what it

means to you today. >> i am numb by the decision. back in 2011, you might remember, i was still in the house floor when they defunded planned parenthood when he was providing not abortion services but health services for women. my colleagues talked about some off limbs and then i talked about the abortion i had, this is in my second trimester. it has taken me to my core. i think for anyone who has lived to the 60s and 70s, one abortion was not a reality and then became a reality, it is shaking my confidence in our institutions. the supreme court is an extreme body. it has been overtaken by the far-right. it is not a judicial body. when you start having opinions that talk about history,

tradition, and the constitution, and going back to 1700 to determine whether it was criminal to have an abortion, the constitution, when i wear the school, with a living breathing document. now they want to take us back. it is the greatest step back in women's rights in this country in our history. we cannot allow this to be retained. i am one of those that believes that the senate does have the ability. they can be the neutron filibuster that was done by mcconnell when he wanted to get supreme court justices appointed with 50 more votes where we can convince people like susan collins who is lie to in private conversations where we sat there with kavanaugh and says that he is not a walkable judge. he says he likes stability.

i think a case could be made that for this purpose because these members of the senate were lied to that we could get to 51 and we could pass a restoration of roe v. wade. >> in his dissent, players thomas mentioned that he thinks that the court should refer to other gay rights including gay marriage, a private sexual conduct between same sex couples, contraception as we go back to chris world. >> all those decisions, in the 60s, were fundamentally focused on the 14th amendment and the right to privacy. this is as was roe v. wade. there was another part of that particular amendment which was equal protection. subsequently, it should have been decided on equal protection under laws. women are no longer equal in this country. there is a very concerted

effort to make women become shattered again. when you are forced to carry a fetus to term, you are no longer your own person. you no longer have autonomy. i thought about it that how it was interested that thomas raise that cause he was in a biracial relationship. he overturned the commitment polity of having a biracial marriage. it was steeped in the right to privacy that was construed in the 14th amendment. >> congresswoman, before i let you go, i want to ask you about the gun bill that the president signed today. it is a compromise. it is not everything that he wanted or that the other supporters wanted in terms of nothing on automatic weapons or the large magazines or age limit on using those weapons

are buying those weapons. you suffered previously in a different kind of gun violence and all of these surgeries that you had from that hideous attack. you know a lot about gun violence in california and elsewhere. do you think more can be done? >> i do. absolutely, more definitely needs to be done. this is a significant step in that it was symbolic. we had broken the spell of the nra on the congress of the united states. make no mistake, this was a very modest step forward. i give my colleague in the senate a lot of credit. it is a small step. the fact that a 17, 18, 19 year old kid can still buy and assault weapon, and the only thing they are subject to is a three-day waiting period, that does not fix the problem of impulsive young people. i think that we have to deal

with that. it is ironic. they want to go back to the original point of view, but if you are going to do that with the second amendment, the only thing you are going to allow is muskets and not assault weapons. they use it when it is to their advantage in the supreme court and not one of it is not. i would just say that it is a good first step. there is more to do. the fact of the matter is that the universal background check is really important. 300,000 people did not get guns every year because of that background check. it does not apply to gun shows, internet sales, or present person sales. that should be easy. it is important that we do that. i am very hopeful in the near term that we will take the steps. >> congresswoman jackie speier, thank you very much. good to see you. >> thank you. >> off next, the january 6th hearings and a big development

at thursday's hearing. new information about who asked president trump for a pardon. we would you will have a lot more coming up. you are watching a new addition of andrea mitchell reports. this is all next on msnbc. s all next on msnbc. only pay for what you need. if anyone objects to this marriage... (emu squawks) kevin, no! not today. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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two tickets to nascar! yes! find rewards like these and so many more in the xfinity app. as we said, president biden signed that bipartisan gun bill into law today which is the first major legislation for gun violence. it does not -- it is enhanced back on track for people under 21, mental health finding, and closing boyfriend loophole. they stress the impact of this becoming log today. here's the president. >> a number of people in the streets are dying. the message to us was do something. how many times did you hear that? just do something! for god sake, just do something? today, we did. this bill does not do everything that i want. it does include actions that i have long called for and it

will save lives. >> joining us now is illinois congressman michael whitley, the -- congressman, it is good to see you. thank you for coming on. i want to get a sense of whether you think that this will impact gonna safety in illinois, chicago, which is wrapped with so much gun violence. what will be the impact on the streets? >> i think it will help. what is noticeable is in there. i think that chicago grapples with a gun trafficking. 60% of guns confiscated comb with more lax gun laws. one in five from across the border in indiana. it will certainly help their. the red flag laws are important. we certainly appreciate them. unfortunately, what is not and there is universal background checks.

i think most of the americans recognize that you are not using an assault weapon to the fire home. you're there to have to people. you will take this because it is been 30 years. >> nothing more is expected. with this congress, you are facing headwinds in the midterms. is this your last shot. this is an unintended pawn. is this your last chance to get something done? >> look, maybe some minor things on the appropriations level where we could do more address of gun violence as a public health issue on the research that comes with it. look, i think this is probably it, particularly on the senate side. if we're talking about the house, i think we can do universal background checks. i think we can ban assault weapons again. i think that we would pass some of this in legislation in recent years and it has not been a majority. i do not see any hope at the

end or at the other end of the hallway in the senate. >> i want to turn your attention to the hearings of the january six committee hearings. this has been all week. we have heard from a five hearings now. they have been much more compelling than i think some skeptics acknowledge. it is among the important revelations on thursday, the name of republican congressman who asked president trump for pardons. take a listen. >> are you owe where of members of congress? >> mr. gates, and mr. brooks, i know they both advocated for that. he was wishing for a pardon. he was doing so since early december. >> you mentioned mr. gates, mr. brooks -- >> mr. gohmert asked for one as well. mr. perry asked for poured

into. >> some of those lawmakers have since denied or pushback on the claims. that's the testimony a white house official who was handling the requests. how do you interpret this? what should happen next? >> i often walk through a toxic atmosphere i walk through medical detectors not fortress but for my colleagues. that they would overturn our democracy that almost got me killed on january six, because they help the insurrection and were coordinated. there's a lot more work that has to be done. we were made aware, this week, of the parallel investigation taking place in the justice department because of the rate on jeffrey clark. i am hoping that my parallel investigation is putting those among my colleagues who are involved in the insurrection or

the attempt to overthrow our country. >> congressman mike quigley. thank you. stay with us. some lawmakers of feel like they were duped by what trump nominated conservative justices said in private meetings. in a moment, we will show you what they said so that you could see for yourself. you are watching a special addition, a saturday dish and, of andrea reports. this is msnbc. s. this is msnbc. with multimatic shocks, rugged 33-inch tires, and front and rear electronic locking differentials. dude, this is awesome... but we should get back to work. ♪ ♪ this good? perfect. if you're gonna work remote... work remote. find new workspaces. find new roads. - [announcer] the more we learn about covid-19, the more questions we have. the biggest question now, what's next?

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were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. it's still the eat fresh refresh, and subway's refreshing their app. so you can customize your favorite footlong, set a pickup time, and jump the line! oh, here she goes! ugh, i thought she was actually gonna jump. just use this code and order on the subway app! back now with breaking news from outside the supreme court in washington d.c.. only two blocks from here, demonstrators are gathering for the second day in the row to make their voices heard on the decision that is pro and con with many demonstrators against the decision to strike down roe v. wade. yasmin joins us again. tell us about the mood out there. one of the most incredible things andrea as we exposed it

last week around is this is a multi generational thing. there are people who knew life before roe. there are people who only grew up with roe and being at the law of the land. they will now experience life after row. we experienced women of all generations protesting the decision that was released by the supreme court. i have a multigenerational crew here that came out. all these ladies are coming out to protest today. talk about why you want to be here. >> i come from a privileged area. we are from maryland. our rights to an abortion and our own health care and reproductive rights will be safe. we are marching for the women who have been affected who are not as privileged as me. i'm fighting for generations in the past who fought so hard to get the right who just lost it. >> we've graduated high school. knowing where we are going to

college we will be pretty good and pretty safe with my right. i have friends who are going to south carolina and red states where there are already trigger laws in place. i get really scared for them because college is a scary place. there's a lot of instances of rape and sexual assault. for them to not have that right it is very scary. >> you are going to louisiana. you're going to tulane. there's a trigger law in that state. your mom is coming up as well. you come from a family generation of protesters and activists. why is it important for you to come out here with your daughter? >> after the decision was made i was a shocked and appalled. i never thought in 1 million years that this would happen. my father, her grandfather, he was an activist. if it came along and it was wrong you spoke up and you say something. that is why we are here with other people we can support and stick around for it. it is just proud of it. i am proud that they are here today also. how do you want to make your

voice heard, i'll? >> coming here and showing the supreme court that we do not agree and that they do not represent us is a good way to get started. i am hoping that the people in powerful do something to ensure that this decision does not represent the majority and it will let us put something into place that can make abortion accessible to everyone. >> thank you ladies. untrue example as we hear from kim, her daughter, and her friends. this is a multi generational conversation. people are feeling that roe was never going to be overturned and now here we are, because of the decision released by the supreme court. it affects so many people, some are generations, they are all voicing their opinions and wanting to influence people to get out and vote. >> it is so interesting, yasmin, reaching so many different age groups and so many different time periods in american history. it is all affected by one decision, yesterday, from the spring hard court. we will talk to him about a

little bit. joining us now to talk about the political impact is melissa murray, professor of law of new york university and msnbc legal analyst. i believe -- harry lippman, former u.s. attorney, now host of the talking feds podcast. it is an incredibly popular podcast. thank you for being here. melissa, this decision overturning roe has criminalized abortion in half of the united states, potentially. put this into perspective for us, for people who with these trigger laws will have 13 states do it immediately. or half the states or more will be going forward. >> there will be a sharp divide in the nine states between those that are hospitable to reproductive rights and those that are not. i would like to push back on what one of those we young women said. she mentioned that she was a resident of maryland and that her rights are secure. it is true that those in blue

states continue to have those rights. because so many women will be coming from other states to hospitable blue states, there will be real pressures on access to reproductive care, even in those blue states. even women and primary caregivers in those blue states are going to experience long waits, and accessibility of providers. we will all feel the pinch. the supreme court decision said nothing about the prospect of the changing of power in congress, which could usher in a said federal ban that will illuminate access throughout the country. no one is safe on this. we will all feel the impact of this. >> harry lippman, clerk for two supreme court justices was the swing a vote on the same sex marriage and that majority opinion. that was an era when republican appointed justices could make different decisions. roe v. wade was 7 to 2 in the republican era house.

>> first of all, everything the melissa says is true. there is a battle coming because the decision puts a win in the sales of states that want to do everything they can to outlaw abortion. this will mean that there will be statutes passed that will make it a crime to go from one state to maryland, in order to get abortion services. also, the other opinions and issues that everyone is talking about, like same-sex marriage, which kennedy, wrote yes the court is trying to assure americans. the way that this will come up is that some state will pass a law outlined same-sex marriage. someone will not get a license and will soon. we will come up to court. what are they going to do? they cannot duck it forever. by reasoning of the opinion yesterday, it would seem that they would have to strike it down. you know that there is already two or three votes to do it. this ushers in an era of general instability for an

enumerated rights. we saw justice thomas ready to take a battleground to all of. it it is a very destabilizing and worrisome situation. on roe, first and foremost, for american women, before everyone, this is like all kinds of liberty issues. >> harry, you worked at the court. you know the role of clerks. first of all, the leak, which has cast suspicion on a lot of people at the court. it may or may not change the entire atmosphere going forward. it is clear that the draft leak was confirmed by the chief. it turns out to be very close to what happened. the fact that justice roberts ruled with the majority on upholding mississippi's nearly total ban, it is a ban after 15 weeks of pregnancy with no exceptions. stopping short of supporting the majority, of overturning roe, they said that that went too far.

what does this mean about the chiefs role in the court going forward. >> it is more that the majority is stopping short of supporting him in the most important case of his career. he is all alone. i think that the explanation is what the dissent gave. roe has some special animosity for these three, five, who came of age in a culture who loath in particularly and they singled it out. even all of roberts efforts were inadequate to try to deter them. this was the hit that their crowd came of age and were eager to. make it finally happened yesterday. >> melissa, you spoke about marilyn, which right now is a blue state. let's talk about places like pennsylvania, where you have a republican nominee for governor to replace a democratic governor who has consistently being vetoing abortion bans by

legislature. his term is limited. you've a republican nominee who is in favor of the total ban, no exceptions period. his opponent, the democratic attorney general, josh shapiro, is saying that he will uphold uphold roe. this is an issue there. pennsylvania is a state like michigan or wisconsin where you have open a governor races. either of the democratic incumbent loses or if the republican wins then you have republican legislators who want to ban abortion. you could see this in more than half the country. >> that is exactly right. i want to go back to the words that some of the young women said. they were looking for someone, people in authority, to do something about this. again, we cannot look to other groups to save us in this moment. if these young women want to see some real action on securing reproductive rights, their best option is to get out and vote and convince other

people to vote as well. as you say, this is going to be an issue for state legislative races. it's going to be in-house state races, and local prosecutors, or judges, who will be hearing these cases about whether or not these laws apply in certain context. whether or not they should bring about a prosecution. this is tied to voter participation. we cannot count on government officials to save us in this moment unless we cultivate the conditions for them to do so. >> melissa murray, harry lippman, thank you to both of. you pride events have been canceled in one city after another in norway, i believe. they call it an act of terrorism. a more -- a look on that and more on others stories making news around the world. join us on msnbc. on msnbc through our grow up great initiative. and now, we're providing billions of dollars

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times tribune. this is louisiana trigger law immediately making abortion in that state illegal. joining us now is kathleen tubman, administrator of the hope medical center in shreveport. she's a lead plaintive in june medical sources which led to the supreme court striking down restrictions on doctors who perform abortions in louisiana. thank you for being with us, kathleen. two years and what a difference this makes. >> absolutely. >> did you have any sense that roe would be entered entirely gone two years after your victory in the high court. >> not that. for many years we have been fast of a year after year of additional regulations and restrictions. we were anticipating more problems through the state legislature. as far as a complete reversal, no, at that point in time, i remember commenting on the celebrating a victory but knowing that there was more to come. >> what are you hearing from

women in your community and from clients? >> we were open to seeing patients for an initial consult. louisiana has a 72-hour waiting period now. we were open, seeing patients for that. we also had procedure scheduled for later in the day. when the news came through, we had to explain to them what have happened in what this means for them. we were met with a shock, disbelief, anger, tears, a sobbing, and this includes the staff as well. even though we had seen the leaked draft, somehow, we were convinced that there would be some kind of intervention. there would not be that bad. >> one nearby states can these women now go to? >> right now, a for us, the closest we are comfortable referring them to is illinois, colorado, even states that are

currently not under the ban but looking to have the ban a kick in in 30 days. they are going to be overwhelmed. there's no point trying to send anybody to any of those states. >> when you talk about colorado, you talk about illinois, you are talking about a -- hundreds of miles, if not thousands. it is very expensive. >> it is expensive. it is for the women that we serve, here already, they live under the federal property line. we are dealing with a population that has so many strikes against them to begin with. money is always going to be an issue. many of the women that we cannot take care of now will be forced to continue a pregnancy. these are women from our lowest point in the community, a persons of color, those who are already at greater risk for a mortality during pregnancy. they have so many strikes

against them already. many of them will not be able to make the trip. >> they are not able to go on the trip for any advanced protesting. that is more time, more money, a hotel, being away from your job, your kids. >> absolutely. we are looking at women who already have families, they have children, they have jobs, they do not have reliable transportation. they will need a driver, because of medications given. again, it is still problematic on so many levels. >> is there an effort to raise money to try to help some of these women? >> a lot of funds are kicking in with raw -- laws trying to be passed. there is some concern with these nonprofits. many of the nonprofits are currently pausing, trying to ensure that what they can provide is done legally so that there will be no criminal

repercussions. we are going to do what we can to get them where they need to be. it is going to be limited. >> thank you very much for being with us. i know it is a busy time, unemotional time. this is especially for the providers and your clients. thank you very much, kathleen pitman. >> thank you. >> many cities across the country are seeing protests against the decision to overturn roe. this includes here, in the nation's capital. this is a few blocks from here from where we are sitting in the studio. we will take you to the supreme court in just a moment. plus, what's a documentary filmmaker is revealing in clams clips of ivanka trump -- clips of what's she said in film and what she said to the january six committee in testimony. this is next. this is next a 12-megapixel lens makes sure your presentation is crystal clear. and smart camera auto pans and zooms to keep you perfectly in frame.

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