ayman tonight. michael? >> hey, alicia. thank you very much. good evening and welcome to a two hour edition of a man. i'm michael steele in from ayman mohyeldin. tonight, abortion is on the ballot. order democrats going to do to stop republicans from enacting a national band? plus, the justice department is finally ramping up its investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election. and the major supreme court ruling no one is talking about, and how it can change your interactions with police. a step backward. that's with 52% of americans call the supreme court's reversal of roe v. wade and the new cbs poll released just this morning. 56% of women say will make

their lives worse. americans voiced that opposition as protests continued across the country today. protesters demanding the federal government step up and act. congressional democrats constrained by slim majorities and the filibuster seem to be passing the buck over to the president. on saturday, 34 senate democrats signed urging president biden invited to take immediately bold action and, quote, use the full force of the federal government to protect abortion rights. more on that in just a moment. now to state the obvious, this decision was not exactly a surprise. back in may, political obtained leaked draft of the courts opinion signaling the very outcome. not much changed from a draft to june's majority opinion. but the decision did offer us a first look at the other side of the dissent. in a scathing rebuke, the courts three liberal justices of said the decision stripped

women of their status as free and equal citizens. justice breyer, so to my and kagan warned that no one should be confident that this majority has done -- honing in on a key issue i'm sure you've heard a lot about, precedent. the three dissenting justices wrote that the majority's decision to override -- it equally spindly end of any president with rich the bare majority of the present court disagrees. because you see, before this ruling, many thought roe was precedent, including at least it, seemed some of the conservative justices currently on the bench. >> do i have to state an opinion, a personal opinion on the outcome in roe v. wade? my answer to you is that i do not. >> roe v. wade is an important precedent of the supreme court. it was decided in 1973.

so, it's been on the books for a long time. it has been challenged on a number vacations, and i discussed those yesterday. and it is mine and the supreme court's reaffirmed decision. sometimes on the merits and sometimes in casey, based on stare decisis. when a decision is challenged and reaffirmed, that strengthens its value. >> i will tell you that roe versus wade decided in 1973 -- in the united states supreme court, it has been reaffirmed. so a good judge will consider as president of the united states supreme court worthy as treatment of precedent like any other. >> as a judge, it is an important precedent of the supreme court. buy it, i mean roe v. wade and planned parenthood versus casey. and reaffirmed many times. casey's precedent on precedent. >> roe is not a super precedent because it calls for its own ruling, never ceased but that does not mean that roe should be overruled.

>> so much for president. let's discuss with democratic congresswoman, carolyn maloney, chairwoman of the house of the oversight committee. congressman maloney, thank you so much for being with us this evening. you have attended protests this weekend. can you share with us your own reaction to the court's decision. would you hear from your constituents out in the community? >> well, there are obviously -- they're angry. they feel terribly upset about it. they feel violated really. most of all, are united and determined to fight this and stand and the front lines of every effort to further bulldoze or undermine, or rollback or eliminate the right of a safe and legal abortion. women and like-minded men are united to fight on the front lines against this every day. we are going back to congress.

we will be pushing to get roe codified. we passed in the house. we need two more votes in the senate. all the democrats voted for it, except for manchin. we need two more republican senators. they need to be defeated. basically, we have to take this out to the midterms. we have to win elections and elect pro-choice, or pro rights legislators. people who will fight for women's right to choose. i will say there is no democracy if women cannot even make decisions about their own health care, their own bodies. this is an outrageous decision. the justices misled in the confirmation hearings. they overturned precedent itself. >> congresswoman, it seems like democrats are trying to see if schiff this away from the senate and house and calling on president biden to act instead. senators like elizabeth warren

suggested setting up abortion clinics on federal lands inside states where the procedures banned. wet action would you like to see from the white house at this point? >> well, i would like them to support an abortion pill. which many people use no. i would like them to make access to make it more available. i would like to see them come out strongly for the access to birth control. you have clarence thomas saying this is the first step. and he may go -- he mentioned griswold, which is right to birth control. gay rights and everything else. i would like to see them take actions there. i'd like to see the people rights amendment passed and ratified, which the president could help us do. so there are a number of things. new york, as you know, is a sanctuary city. we are already having funding and access and all kinds of

initiatives to help people from other states to come here, so that is taking place so the federal government can't do more. we certainly support it. ultimately, we need to overturn this decision and that means we need to elect more pro-choice democrats to congress. i myself announced on the day of the casey decision, when they put restrictions on roe. i ran for congress. i did -- republican. we need more women elected who understand the issues and will go to the front lines and fight for it and congress and on the city and federal and state level. courts everywhere. we need to overturn this. >> you chaired the oversight committee. are you planning to hold any hearings on this subject on ortionaccess, anwhat do you think the next move should be in the house, for example? >> we definitely will be holding hearings it's under discussions. i would think many committees

will be holding hearings. we are on a two-week -- what we call a committee work period. having hearings in my district, where we'd be working in our districts. we will be back in two weeks, and i can assure you there will be many discussions, many hearings, but ultimately, we have to elect pro-choice legislators. we have to win at the ballot box. we have to elect people who will fight for women's rights and equality. we all have to be in. it's not just the president. we can't exercise the executive orders. we also have to make changes with the elections. >> to your point about everybody is in this, this friday's rulings really opens up a whole new host of issues that can make their way to the supreme court in the coming years. like abortion travel bans. issues over abortion medicatn as you mentioned. the use of personal data in

abortion related prosecutions. how the democrats right now and the party at large, prepare itself for this fight? to be honest, this was telegraphed. republicans did not pull punches here. you knew. everybody knew what's the endgame for his. seemingly, the democrats appeared flat-footed. give us what lies ahead as to how you prepare for what comes next? >> i would say we were not flat-footed. we passed -- rulemaking, at the law of the land. we plus passed in the house. we brought it to a vote in the senate. we did not have the votes. we are taking this out into an election. we have also worked hard with the fda to remove restrictions -- we have legislation in, which i've authored for the right to birth control. access to birth control. there are a number of bills in in all directions. but if you don't have the votes,

you can't enact it on the game plan. on the grand i know in new york, the governor has made it a top cry already to provide services and help, not only to new yorkers but anyone in the country who wants to come to new york for aids and assistance. as i can say, there is a spontaneous outrage all over the country know of speak outs, hearings, demonstrations, marches. we are fighting back. but ultimately, it's the decision in a ballot box. we have to elect women to congress and like-minded man who will go to the front lines and fight for a woman's right to choose. the equal rights amendment. for all of these efforts that they're trying to push back from the efforts that they are rolling towards us. >> congresswoman carolyn mahoney.

thank you so much. we appreciate you. next hour, we will have more on with the reversal of roe could mean for other rights. i will speak to jim obergefell. coming, up the justice department is expanding its investigation into the republican players who tried to overturn the 2020 election. overturn the “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. just then our hero has a breakthrough. "shoot it, camera, shoot a movie!" and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro. finding the perfect developer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in prague between the ideal cup of coffee

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coming out of the january six committee hearings, it's easy to forget there is another investigation into the capitol attack. one that could pose a far greater risk to donald trump, led by the justice department. and this week, that investigation got dialed way up. federal agents conducted an early morning surge in the home of jeffrey clark, he's an environmental lawyer trump try to install as attorney general in the final days of his presidency. clark was the only doj official willing to lie about voter fraud for trump. the same day, the fbi served subpoenas in multiple states to trump allies who were involved in the fake elector scheme to overturn the election. let's dig into this with vermont congressman, peter welch, a member of the house intelligence committee. congressman, welcome. >> thank. you >> absolutely. regarding the federal search executed on the home of jeffrey clark, are you glad to finally see justice department taking

steps like this? >> i am. it is a follow-up from the evidence that has been presented by the january six committee. what is really important here, for all of us, is how do we preserve our democracy? the basic question is wet -- weather what happened on january 6th is an effort to overturn an election by the american people. the first time in the history of our country. and with the january six committee is showing that, in fact, it was an attempted coup. it was organized by president trump. so, this is very important with the justice department is doing is a follow-up on the evidence that is been presented by the january 6th committee. >> a lot of folks are beginning to conclude that the new subpoenas that were issued to republicans were -- wrapped up in the fake elector scheme is indication of an expansion of the investigation. do you believe that is the case?

or, how do you assess what this may mean? >> i don't think it is an expansion of these investigations. i think it's an outcome of the investigation. keep in mind, january 6th it was stunning to everybody. i was there. i was in the gallery when the mob attacked. when the shot was fired. when people die. and i was outside walking by the gallows. but i have to tell you, michael, i couldn't believe it was happening. and, you know, what's i don't think i'm naive. i think i had the same view that all americans had. that we could count on the peaceful transfer of power. unchallenged and without violence. so, when the mob was attacking the capitol, i didn't believe what's happening. what we're seeing with the january six commission, is there laying out the incredible engagement that president trump himself had in, first of all promoting the big lie that it was a rigged election, and

encouraging people to come. and raising money off of that. and having a plan to -- the fact that they are doing a methodical way, the january six commission, is allowing a lot of folks, including me, by the way, to see how this was far from a spontaneous uprising. it was planned, executed in organized by president trump and the white house. >> and actually, it's interesting, to your point -- a university poll shows more than 2 to 1 margin americans think the attack on the capitol was planned rather than spontaneous. i assume you're glad to see that. it speaks to how the story is cutting through to the american people. don't you think? >> it is. but, you know we want to take a step back. whether you're conservative or liberal, when we have had contentious debates about health care, about taxes, about the environment, we've all been guided by the restraints of

those guardrails. we mutually believe in democracy. we believe that a decision that people make when they vote for the president -- it has to be respected. and all of this acknowledgment has been challenged president trump. then president trump. would i think we are starting to see is that people realize it wasn't spontaneous. it really wasn't idiosyncratic, and frankly, anti democratic authoritarian act by president trump. all of us have to unite about saving our democracy. and we can have those debates about contentious issues in a democratic system. >> i wanted to move on to the supreme court ruling on roe. striking it down. what is your reaction to that? >> it's devastating. it is devastating. what's really devastating, number one, about the rolling, it's terrifying for women. i mean, the day before the

ruling, they have the capacity make their own decision. the day after the ruling, several states impose the ban on abortion. for a democracy that is already extremely divided, what we've done is empowered people who are against abortion. they're entitled to their point of view. to make an effort to impose their view on people who want reproductive freedom. and that can only add to -- a generation or more of intense debate chenin as issue. i think it's a catastrophic -- and it's a combination of the court that has been walking down a road of a eroding confidence in that institution. by the way, that institution is really important for the credibility of our democracy. this is very dangerous. >> congressman, you're making the leap to the upper chamber. at least we're making that attempt, running for the united states senate. what are your thoughts about how the senate functions? and what kind of reforms do you think would be appropriate,

maybe reforming the filibuster? >> filibuster has got to go. the filibuster, historically, has been abused. it's essentially been a way to deny civil rights to african americans. that is the tool that southern democrats use historically to stop progress. now it is being used by the -- mitch mcconnell republican to stop all kind of -- votes on climate change, vote on roe v. wade, both on voting rights. so, bottom line, we have to have a system, majority rule that's a democracy, with minority rights. but we can't have a filibuster with offensively -- has minority rule and know majority rights. so the filibuster has got to go, in my view. >> congressman peter wells, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i appreciate it. still ahead, trump's state of mind when pushing the big lie might not be relevant in order for prosecutors to approve

criminal intent. we'll explain that. but first, richard louis is here with the headlines. hey richard. >> hey, michael -- president biden spending day one of the g7 summit to stand united against russian -- aggression in ukraine. his push as g7 leaders -- they also discuss a price cap on russian oil exports. russian forces renewed airstrikes on and around ukraine's capital sunday. ukraine's officials say one of the missiles hit an apartment building in central kyiv. killing one injuring at least six others. the last russian airstrikes in that area were june five. and more than 150,000 pounds of baby formula arrived in houston, texas sunday morning. the nestle pallets were flown in from germany as part of operation fly formula. the load is enough to fill 1.5 million baby bottles. more ayman, with michael steele, after the break. steele, after the break.

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intent, trump's actions surrounding january 6th, you don't need to look that far. at least that's what my next guess ryan goodman, along with msnbc's mr. mcquade and norm eisen. trump's efforts to change the election through a vigilante justice or criminal, regardless of what trump actually believed at the time. quote, even if the lawyers were confident that trump thought he won and could prove his state of mind in court, it would surely not have secured their misgivings about the illicit methods, nor should it. trump's state of mind and that regard as irrelevant. and ryan goodman joins me now. he is a former special counsel of the former department of defense. he is currently a law professor at new york university and co-editor in chief and just a security. ryan, welcome.

walk me through your reasoning here about trump's state of mind. and why it's not relevant while discussing his criminal efforts? >> sure, so the idea here is that there are several federal crimes that would apply to his actions and state crimes, especially in georgia, that the element of the crime is not dependent upon whether or not he thought he actually won the election or the prosecutors been able to prove anything about it. just to give you an example, 150 people have not been charged by the justice department for being involved in the riot and the insurrection. it does not matter that 850 of them might have thought trump won. it's not something that prosecutors are struggling over, because their federal crimes like -- obstructing professional proceedings. -- you're not allowed to do things like sick a mob on the capitol. he can't do things like forged documents in states with these false alternative electors.

there's certain methods you cannot take into your own hands, so we kind of walk through these federal crimes and very importantly, georgia as well, to show that this is actually how the law works. it's not going to be that hard for prosecutors. >> so, help me get this squared up. if everyone is telling you know. don't do it. can't do it, and you do it anyway, does that not kind of throw the whole argument at the door? >> so that is -- would need to be proved. the corruptly obstructing congress by pressuring mike pence. all that we need to proven instances that the president knew that it was illegal. we now have dynamite testimony from greg jacob, the general counsel, vice president pence saying trump was told by his own council -- he then says on january 4th to president trump, it's not legal. and he goes ahead with it

anyway. we also have an email between jacob and eastman on the afternoon of january 6th and which jacob cystic eastman saying did you advise the president that pence did not have this authority? eastman replies, he was so advised, but once he gets something in his head it's hard to get him to change course. that is powerful evidence. that is the kind of -- as you can see in that crime, it doesn't matter. as trump said, i thought i'd one, that's why pressured pence to violate his duties that just would not be the defense counsel would wineries during the trial. act >> actually, in your piece you argue that quote, the most recent hearings of the january six committee provide plenty of evidence to prove that trump and a cadre of his closest associates conspired to engage in an electoral vigilantism. can you break that down for us? or does that mean when you say that? >> yeah, the would basically means even if you think trump

somehow is detached from reality and thought that he won, he is engaging in actions trying to take the law into his own hands in a way that the law doesn't permit. let's just think about the seven battleground states that biden clearly won. in the states on december 14th, trump and giuliani have organized these false electors. people who say in these declarations, we are the duly authorized electors and call our state for trump and they submitted to the national archives in order to gum up the works on january 6th. have it be the predicate for pence to further the election to trump. you can't forge the documents. you cannot forge documents. that's another aversion of obstruction. it's also a federal law on submitting false statements and forging documents at the national archives. that's partly what we mean by a form of electoral vigilantism. even if you think you're the victim, you can't take the line

tehran hands. >> let's talk about the january 6th hearings. we've heard from the committee over and over again that trump was told there was no legal basis to overturn the election. yet, he pushed on. he persisted. is this the right kind of argument for the committee to be making? >> i think so. i think that they've got a very strong case. at a minimum, it's enough of a threshold that you would think you had to have the justice department open up a robust criminal investigation. it exceeds that line by tenfold. the big question is, does it get you actually to the point of enough evidence that the prosecutors would feel that they're confident in pursuing an indictment. i do think that they've amassed an enormous amount of evidence in that regard. that trump was told it was illegal and he pursued it anyway. and some of the better lawyers on the trump campaign peeled off. we have three lawyers on the

record who said that they didn't want to participate whatsoever in the fake electorates. >> brian goodman, thank you very much. appreciate you. still ahead, inside the work that activists have been doing for months, and in some cases years to prepare for the all returning of roe versus wade. returning of roe what do you want to leave behind? that's your why. it's your purpose, and we will work with you every step of the way (mom allen) verizon just gave us all a brand new iphone 13. (dad allen) we've been customers for years. (dad brown) i thought new phones were for new customers? we got iphone 13s, too. switched to verizon two minutes ago. (mom brown) ours were busted and we still got a shiny new one. (boy brown) check it out! (dad allen) so, wait. everybody gets the same great deal? (mom allen) i think that's the point. (vo) now everyone can get a new iphone 13 on us on america's most reliable 5g network. (allen kid) can i have a phone?

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as a main street bank, (allen kid) can i have a phone? pnc has helped over 7 million kids develop their passion for learning. and now we're providing 88 billion dollars to support underserved communities... ...helping us all move forward financially. pnc bank: see how we can make a difference for you. post real america is quickly taking shape. abortion bans are now in effect and at least nine states with more to follow suit in the coming weeks. leaving tens of millions of americans without access to a safe and legal abortion. this is a landscape some groups have spent years preparing for. that includes the so-called abortion underground chronicled by journalist jessica brutal for the atlantic. jessica boutter went inside that covert network as they prepare to circumvent incoming restrictions.

she joins me now. welcome, jessica. since the row ruling, have you spoken to any of the women use interview for that piece, and how are they navigating these new bands? >> they are trying tospread knowledge as quickly as they can. i get it. it's not a ton of people, and they're not sure that there will be enough, but they will be working in concert with people who are doing legal things as well, we should know. people who are -- all sorts of methodology's right now are at play. a lot of people are just going to end up traveling. >> so the abortion underground also existed pre row, but in your piece you write, quote, other forces are also at play. a post-roe world will not resemble-y preet roe world. can you explain a bit for us? >> absolutely. thanks for mentioning that. people have been helping each other get abortions and all

sorts of legal climates all over the world for thousands of years. that's not going to change, but what we do have now that we did not have before or two things. we've got something called the internet, which is a great way to transmit information, and half abortion -- which has been legalized by the fda. and are discreet. 98% effective and also available by mail. >> how worried are members of the underground over possible legal consequences, either for them or for the people they assist? you've got a meant member of states talking about prosecuting women and those who help them leaving the state to get an abortion. >> yeah, most of the people i've spoken with are at this point more energized and concerned. they're looking at the vast need that is about to arise and trying to do what they can to meet that need. they see it as a human right. but people are concerned about as most of the energy is going

towards that activism and mobilization. >> so before i let you get out of here, i want to read a quote from one of the women you spoke to, and she told you, quote, reproductive rights are not given to us by the government. they are not given to us by anyone. we have them. surely, the fight isn't letting up anytime soon. where do you see it going from here over the next coming months and even years as you see efforts to put in place a federal ban? >> yeah, i see the fight continuing politically. i tend to cover grassroots more than politically. not just a federal ban on abortion. we know thanks to clarence thomas's remarks that the right to same sex marriage, same sex relationships, that could be in play. as a woman with a female partner, i find that actual terrifying. the decisions that were the basis for -- by and use contraception. so again, there are so many things in play right now.

so many things to be done. it is hard to predict exactly what will happen next. i know that it is go time for a lot of people right now. it's go time. >> jessica brooded, thank you very much. we appreciate you coming by. coming up, how the supreme court ruling on the new york gun law could play out across the country. e country. e country. woah! look out! [submarine rising out of water] [minions making noise] minions are bitin' today. (sung) liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. minions: the rise of gru, in theaters july 1st. why give your family just any eggs when they can enjoy the best? eggland's best.

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decision this week to strike down new york century all gun law was quote, probably the most significant expansion of gun rights from the supreme court in the country's history. that's according to our next guest, michael walton, the author of the second amendment, a biography. it was cited in justin stephen breyer's dissent. the decision to triple -- want to carry weapons outside their homes for almost a new

reason. the ruling is also set to nullify laws and a handful of other states. to have similarly strong concealed carrying licensing laws. michael waldman, president of the center for justice. good to see you. so, do you believe this decision is actually bigger than heller? the last major second amendment supreme court decision from the court. if so, why is that? >> i think it likely will be, because heller was the very first time the supreme court ever said that the second amendment protects an individual right to gun ownership. it was only in 2000. it was recent, but it spoke about protecting heart and home. this of course strikes down new york's law. as a new yorker i'm not thrilled about the many more guns that will be carried and a crowded place when the second amendment was ratified. there were 33,000 people living

in new york. now there are 8.8 million. the implications and why i think it's such a big deal go well beyond this particular law. with the supreme court said, justice clarence thomas said, if you can't balance the individual right against public safety. against violence and crime. you could only look at, quote, history and tradition. what this means is that the nra and other gun rights advocates are going to be able to go into court and challenge hundreds of gun laws that have been upheld by the courts. and say you did it wrong. the supreme court says you need to look back and find out about what they did with the muskets and what they were doing way back then. it's a big onslaught coming of attacks on gun laws. >> that kind of begs the question. do you see other gun regulations also at risk at this point? >> yes.

not just laws about carrying concealed weapons but also the other things that have been upheld since heller by dozens and dozens and dozens of federal judges. state judges. republican and democratic appointed judges that said yeah, it's an individual right, but society also has rights. 90% of gun laws have been upheld in the last dozen years or so. those are all at risk. it is like with the abortion case. evidence of the way the current supermajority and the supreme court kind a very selectively picks through this historical record looking for evidence rather than asking what we are to be doing now as a society. >> as we saw with clarence thomas's invitation for other challenges to come in the privacy space -- row, obergefell, do you think

this is a challenge for those to bring lawsuits in the future? >> i think so. it really tells all these judges you did it wrong. it tells the nra, which is bankrupt and the husk of itself. nevertheless, gets a do-over on these laws. what is striking is a ocean when you read the opinion, there's just no mention of public safety today. of the real conditions of americans today. justice alito and his concurrence, justice breyer -- for bringing up the mass shootings and the gun violence. like it's kind of impolite to do it. like on behalf of these gun victims. unfortunately, that kind of thing as a signal to people to come and challenge these laws. it also makes it more complicated for states and cities, and the federal government, to know what kinds

of laws will be constitutional. it is a moment where we just saw the first bipartisan agreement of gun legislation in three decades. i don't think that is that risk, but in some senses the country has had a real awakening and coming together on some of the skin issues. on the one hand, and at the same moment the supreme court has lurched in a very different direction. >> you anticipated my next question about the law that was recently signed by president biden. you don't see that at risk, but is that because it is not as threatening to the gun community, or why is there less risk with that signed by the president? >> mostly it's not about regulation of guns as much as funding for mental health and things like that. although, certainly issues like red flag laws, which say that somebody who has mental health, violent tendencies or domestic

violence or other things can have their guns taken away. you will see people saying that violates their sacred right to keep and bear arms. but generally speaking, the way the law was written as less about gun regulation than about investing in other things. but look, it was certainly constitutional a week ago. i think it's constitutional now, but they have to spend time looking at it to make sure. >> michael, stick around. i'm gonna ask you about another supreme court case right after a quick break. supreme court case knorr's highy pasta and rice sides are now made with no artificial flavors or preservatives. knorr. taste for good. a quick break. right after a quick break. t the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose.

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miranda warning that many know by heart. you have the right to remain silent, maybe enshrined in tv shows and films, but this week's supreme court decision means its civil rights protections will be significantly reduced. the 6 to 3 decision essentially concluded that failing to mirandize or give someone their miranda warning does not allow a person to suit long forsman for federal civil rights violation of the fifth amendment protection against compelled self incrimination. back with me as michael waltman. michael, what does this decision mean? it was the forgotten decision this week, but i think it's pretty significant. what about you? >> it is significant. they're exactly right that this is one of those cherished things that we as americans take for granted from cop shows,

that actually is part of our constitution. and the majority says well yes, this is still the right. you still have the right to remain silent, not to incriminate yourself, but this is supposed to protect this kind of evidence being used and charles. but if you don't have the ability to enforce that right. if you don't have the ability to bring accountability when your civil rights have been violated, and the right has a lot less force. it's a real clue about the direction of this court. it was another 6 to 3 opinion. this was the first year that the super majority of six very conservative doctrine airy justices are all moving in lockstep. it's wasn't as big and flat sea cases dogs are second amendment case. but there are a lot of other cases like this where bit by bit, this court seems to be wanting to roll back. a lot of the advances that many

of us took for granted over the last half century. >> my reading of this, i walked away thinking yeah, you have the right to remain silent and counsel, but you don't have the right to know that. in other words, they don't have to tell you that anymore. does that mean this decision makes it easier for police to obtain that coursed confession that concerns a lot of folks in police custody? >> well, in theory, they still can't use it a try, but the police officer who maybe coercing does not have to worry as much themself that they will be held accountable. if you don't have accountability, then the right is not terribly meaningful. we as a society, two years after the george floyd murder, we're still looking for ways to make sure that we can have public safety and accountable policing and fairness. this is not a newfangled thing. this is a basic bedrock protection that has not been shipped away. >> has this given cover to police in that regard? as you mentioned, the officers

are not gonna be held accountable on the federal statute. so how does this incentivize for the violations of miranda moving forward? >> again, the idea is that people should not have evidence that was coerced from them, used against them at a truck. for police, that is still a meaningful incentive not to do it. we would think. but it's more meaningful if there is a chance that the individual officers who do something really bad can have civil rights section 1983, as it's called. charges filed against them. we have said, as a society, that when officers of the law, public officials, violate somebody's civil rights, part of the way to prevent it, part of the way to bring justice is to let people go to court and defend themselves and seek accountability. when you don't have accountability, the right is not very meaningful. >> why do you think this case, why do you think miranda?

did they figure we could just set that aside? >> part of it is they get a lot of these cases. they had a chance to do it, because the case was in front of them. i think it's also the case that you see a pattern where this court knows it still has to mild the words of recognizing this constitutional right. that constitutional right. but what it seems perfectly comfortable doing is taking away the remedies. alina -- wrote the dissent. she's made this point a number of times relating to other matters to, that the supreme court can mouth the rhetoric of defending constitutional rights the with -- [interpreter] where it's sneaky in its fall through isn't taking away the remedies. >> michael waltman, thank you very, very much. appreciate it. all right, folks.

we still got a ton to cover in the second hour. amen coming up. -- lead plaintiff in the case that made same-sex marriage legal responds to clarence thomas's argument that other rights should be reconsidered, now that roe has been overturned. plus, give me a break. modern senators are claiming they were duped by conservative justices on roe. but who are these senators fooling? and, we are going to give a shout out to the one man who single-handedly made the january 6th hearings worthwhile. kevin mccarthy. we will just leave it there. i'm michael steele in for ayman moye dean. let's get started. started. is roe just the beginning? that is the looming question that after the supreme court we first nearly half a century legal precedent by eliminating

the constitutional right to an abortion. protests are still raging in many parts of the country. some expect those protests to last for weeks or even months, especially in light of a passage from justice clarence thomas's concurring opinion. thomas suggests that ruling establishing substance of due process -- specifically once that stop states from criminalizing same-sex intimacy, then in game areas and limiting access to contraceptives, should all be, quote, we considered. the white house was quick to respond, releasing a video featuring jim obergefell, the lead plaintiff in the landmark 2050 marriage equality case. obergefell versus hodges. >> he's supreme court decisions, they have lasting impacts. that impact can be positive like it was for marriage equality or it can be negative. this decision has the potential to wreak havoc in our