the constitutional right to an abortion. protests are still raging in many parts of the country. some expect those protests to last for weeks or even months, especially in light of a passage from justice clarence thomas's concurring opinion. thomas suggests that ruling establishing substance of due process -- specifically once that stop states from criminalizing same-sex intimacy, then in game areas and limiting access to contraceptives, should all be, quote, we considered. the white house was quick to respond, releasing a video featuring jim obergefell, the lead plaintiff in the landmark 2050 marriage equality case. obergefell versus hodges. >> he's supreme court decisions, they have lasting impacts. that impact can be positive like it was for marriage equality or it can be negative. this decision has the potential to wreak havoc in our nation.

when one fundamental right is lost, that means all fundamental rights are at risk. >> i will speak to mr. obergefell in just a moment. some democrats are pressing the representatives to codify presidents like obergefell in the law. a move democrats failed to pursue with roe, so today, house nancy speaker, nancy pelosi, released a statement seemingly in response to those calls. she said, in part, in the wake of the supreme court's outrageous and heart wrenching decision of overturning roe versus wade, radical republicans have made clear that they are just setting their sights on other protections rooted in the constitutional right to privacy. house democrats are committed to standing against this ruthless assault on the rights of millions of lgbtq americans. but what that comment means and practice, well, that still remains to be seen. joining me now, jim obergefell himself. civil rights activists and

current candidate for the ohio state hearts of representatives and the former lead plaintiff in the supreme court case, obergefell versus hodges. wendy davis, former texas state senator and founder of deeds not words. welcome to you both. jim, let's start with you. how seriously should lgbtq americans take john justice thomas's threat to reconsider cases like lawrence and obergefell? they are those who are saying that other conservatives like roberts and gorsuch would not be willing to go that far. do you believe that? >> i do not. we should be very concerned. all you have to do is look at the decision in 2015. roberts was not on our side and way anyone would think any of these other extreme right-wing justices would be on our side is fooling themselves. justice thomas is concurring

opinion clearly is giving the language and rationale opponents of the lgbtq -- lgbtq plus equality can attack our right to privacy to engage in intimate relations with the person we left. to marry the person we love. no, i don't believe any member of the lgbtq plus community should feel safe regardless of that decision says. when alito says this should not be taken to endanger or be used against marriage equality. we should not believe that. >> at the heart of this for me and mine ulises and looking at both cases, when you look at world and criswell, lost in the shuffle is the importance of grids will. can you talk a bit about what it would mean if criswell versus -- connecticut were overturned by the court? >> in 1964 drizzle was passed allowing contraceptive use by married couples. then in 1972, in the u.s.

supreme court case -- that wright was granted to single people. it was rooted, as jim was talking about a moment ago, in this right to privacy. when the right to privacy is upset, and when the justices determined that there is no such right in the constitution the underpinning of the very decisions that marriage equality and contraceptive use rest on, falls away from underneath them, and he idea that we should all be reassured by a leader as words, not to worry about that those rights will come next, of course it's just ludicrous, particularly when you consider that illegal earlier in his legal career before he became a u.s. supreme court justice actually argued for the incremental approach that took row down. he believes in the incremental approach to taking these other

rights down and he's helping will be fooled by them. we won't be, though, and i do hold the congress will act to proactively protect's rights immediately. >> let's follow up on wendy's point. i've heard this quite a bit. the growing frustration that congressional democrats haven't taken the steps to codify presidents like griswold. we'll, obergefell. what's your assessment of that? >> potentially part of that is knowing that they may not have the support they need to do that and congress. especially when we want and need. people on the other side of the aisle, to stand up for what's. right to stand up for civil and human rights. we can't expect that. with filibuster rules and everything else and place, could have happened. would i love to see the house,

the senate proposed things to do this? absolutely. i think they should be doing that. so i understand the frustration. >> it's really frustrating, i guess, for a lot of democrats, early start as i talk to about this, wendy, because they feel that there are a lot of good messaging opportunities that are being lost. more than what you are doing with just vote, one of their messages should the democratic party be pushing right now to reimagine this conversation around these issues from warrants to obergefell terrell? >> i think it's incredibly important in moments like this, for voters across the country to see democrats fighting for them. it doesn't necessarily mean we will win. i think jim is absolutely right. there are uphill battles ahead on many of these issues, but we cannot simply fail to act

because we fear we might not succeed. and if we're going to keep an energized voting base who believes that it's important to elect democrats because they see democrats fighting for the things that matter to them on their day-to-day lives we need to show them exactly that. we will fight for them every day, even an uphill battles that we may not win. >> jim, what adjustments do you think the lgbtq legal community, and the movements surrounding its legal efforts should make at this point to prepare for what's possibly comes next after this road decision? >> we really do need to pressure congress. if congress cannot come out and propose these bills that actually stand for really important things. family, marriage, children, the ability to control your own body, if we can't get congress to actually propose things to

protect those really vital things, then we really have to go to the state level. we have got to be active in our state level. that means speaking out in every city council. state legislature. county trustee meetings that we can. the involved with our elected officials. tell them what matters to us, which we expect from them. when we need them to do to protect these really vitally important things. our rights to privacy, our right to love. our rate to family should not be subject to an extreme right supreme court, and that is what we are experiencing now. and beyond anything else, people have got to vote and vote in every election, and vote for the candidates who most closely mirror your values, because if we don't have a government and a judiciary that looks like our nation, and we are always going to be fighting

a losing battle to protect these rights if we allow gerrymandering and extreme rights to continue controlling what happens in this nation. >> talked wendy, jim talks about very passionately about this movement towards action, and trying to get the legal and political aligned on this. how do you speak to young girls, young women out there who are scared by the headlines that they are seeing, and the feeling that they get that somehow america has changed for them? >> you know, i was so struck, michael, on friday, listening to some of the women who were just wrenched by this decision. the young woman who has featured throughout the day who had been standing in front of the supreme court and said, i feel like my country does not love me. i hope for young women like her. that we can help them

understand that they have so much power if they will own it and come forward and use it in the only way that actually brings change about in this country. i've been talking to young people over the course of the last few days about the fact that we did not get your overnight. we got here because folks on the other side of who were disappointed with what happened and roe v. wade, started fighting from that day forward and never gave up. we have got to bring that same forest bear. i'm heartened by the fact that we have so many young people who have shown up in protest over these last few days. many of them registering -- young people to vote. i feel very inspired and hopeful that they are going to lead the way, because they know it's their future that they need to participate in

creating. >> wendy davis, jim obergefell, thank you for your time and conversation tonight. we are going to continue this conversation with my panel, next. hi t hi t conversation with my next such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma, or smoking. next these factors can increase your risk of covid-19 turning severe. so, if you're at high risk and test positive - don't wait - ask your healthcare provider right away if an authorized oral treatment is right for you. we hit the bike trails every weekend if an authorized oral treatment shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but, no matter how healthy you feel, your immune system declines as you age

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supreme court make good on justin thomas's threat to revisit other presidents once thought to be rock-solid? let's ask the panel. -- host of the sunday show on msnbc, associate editor at the washington post and pulitzer prize-winning journalist. danielle moodie, host of the podcast woke a f, and coke -- co-host democracy-ish -- msnbc political contributor and white house reporter and playbook coauthor and political -- welcome to all of you.

i've been waiting for this all day. jonathan, let's start with you. on a serious note, should the mvp t queue community look at what justice thomas has said, the threat that he has put out there on the street to reconsider cases like these. should they take that seriously? >> absolutely. with this court, you have to take everything that they do seriously. when that draft was leaked out last month, and i read through alito's draft, and yeah, it was all about and abortion case. but looking at the language, i kept thinking, if you can say this about roe, why can't you say this about burger fell? and then it wasn't until page 62, when alito's draft says, now, listen, nothing that i have argued here should be considered for anything other than abortion. that same language is in the final opinion that was penned

by justice alito. now, here is where it gets really interesting. because that draft leaked out and we all read it, and i wrote a column saying, i don't believe you, justice alito. it's as if justin thomas and his concurring opinion wanted to put an exclamation point on it by saying, i think we need to reassess the due process clause as it pertains to griswold, -- while alito is saying, nothing to worry about here for anything else. justice thomas says, oh no, we are coming for contraception, right to intimate relation between same-sex adults, and marriage equality. and one more point. cannot forget, clarence thomas

is the senior most member of the court. and so, he is the one who gets to decide who writes the majority opinions. and with the 6 to 3 conservative majority, that renders chief justice john roberts completely powerless to rein in that conservative super majority. >> it really seems to be that way and there is a lot of conversation going on about what do we do now? the hounds have been unleashed. eugene, on that point, on the democratic side, what have you heard about the white house's reaction to the rolling? and a lot of conversation and pressure coming out from the president to do something about it. are there any concrete responses that he plans to announce? >> i can't overstate how much pressure this administration is

under right now when it comes to reacting to, having policy prescription for, nibbling around the edges against the decision about what was decided on friday, finding ways to protect abortion access if possible. the problem is that there is not much that they can do. he can't sign an executive order that would legally allow pregnant people to get abortions in this country. in every state, no matter what. that is not something he can do with the power of the pen. what he can do and what they are planning on doing is to using agencies to do this kind of work, she find ways to make sure that the states that it is not legal in that they have the ability to travel out of that state to go to and now they're. what can they do there as an administration? when it comes to making sure that the abortion bill is readily available -- how can you do that? because before, the trump administration made it so the

fda said that you could not send it out through the mail. that is gone away under the biden administration. what else can they do on that point? and the other aspect of it is pushing congress to do something. something that i've heard over and over since friday and on friday. i was in front of the supreme court for hours talking to folks out there. and what their frustration is, they see a conservative -- the group of conservatives in this country who have been working on this for 49 years, and i feel like the conservatives have done everything they possibly can. they have stolen a supreme court seat. they have made promises over and over to do this. and democrats have not taken it seriously. they did not enshrine roe into law, even when they had the opportunity. in 2009, during the obama administration. this frustration across the board with democrats not doing more. they want to see president biden, vice president harris,

the entire cabinet out there publicly talking about this. but also doing things that they haven't done before, talking about wanting a carve out in the filibuster for abortion rights in this country. that is something that the administration has pushed back against for basically everything else. other than voting rights at this point. and there also doesn't seem to be enough votes in congress the even do that. their hands are tied at this point. >> daniel, travel with me if you will to fantasyland, where both senators susan collins and joe manchin had suggested they were misled by justice kavanaugh and -- based on their testimony that roe versus wade was set in law. we believed this, right? they actually believed and are confused and done -- stunned that these justices voted the way they voted. >> are they confused and

stunned or was it not their life with that was going to be on the chopping block? are they confused and stand or did it not matter because they are wealthy and they are white and they are privileged? let's understand that the people that we have been asking to protect our rights are not the people, right? they are the privileged class. they have the economic ability, right? and the complexion to be able to move food through this society and be covered. susan collins, was she ever done except wag her finger and say, oh my goodness. he promised and he told me. they are not the ones that are going to have to figure out how do i get off from work and travel across states? and what if i am criminalized and on my return back from leaving texas, from leaving alabama, from leaving tennessee, that now i'm a criminal in my state? they don't have to worry about these things, right? because those are the things of real people. they are the ones that are bringing in millions and millions of dollars a year. they think a plane ticket is not a big deal. it is for somebody that's making less than $15 an hour. it is for people that do not

have the economic backing that they all have and enjoy. right? i think that is very problematic for joe manchin, king cole, to say, i thought they told us the truth. you knew that they were lying. we knew that they were lying. and who is going to hold them to account? no one. we have 4000 notices on brett kavanaugh about his predator behavior. right? and that was just stopped in a drawer by the fbi. and then delivered to the trump white house, which did nothing. you have clarence thomas, who is a compromise justice, whose wife has been on the phone, talking with mark meadows during the insurrection. she is where? right? these people on conversation, they are in cahoots. this justice, these justices, are corrupt. and it's problematic that we just take it as these people are going to stay on the course for the rest of our lives and we are going to wait around on our couches, while they take away our rights, one decision at a time. >> i told y'all to buckle up.

the panel, stick around. we will see you later in this hour. still ahead, how your -- attacks against the lgbtq community are part of america's long history of anti-gay conspiracies. but first, richard louis is here with the latest headlines. >> michael, the stories we're watching for us. president biden spending day one of the g7 summit urging allies to stand together against russian aggression in ukraine. -- the leaders are also discussing the possible price gap on russian oil exports. anthony blinken says the u.s. is not leaving imprisoned basketball star brittney griner behind. sunday, he called her release a priority, but are not going to detail on that. russian authorities detained griner in february. and tens of thousands gathered in new york city for the annual pride march on sunday.

planned parenthood march in the parade marking the -- to overturn roe v. wade as well. right after this break -- right after this break - from home work. a 12-megapixel lens makes sure your presentation is crystal clear. and smart camera auto pans and zooms to keep you perfectly in frame. oh, and it syncs with your calendar. plus, with zoom, microsoft teams, and webex, you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. now that's a productive day. meta portal: make working from home work for you. (dad allen) we've been customers for years. (dad brown) i thought new phones were for new customers? we got iphone 13s, too. switched to verizon two minutes ago. (mom brown) ours were busted and we still got a shiny new one. (boy brown) check it out! (dad allen) so, wait. everybody gets the same great deal? (mom allen) i think that's the point.

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in low and moderate smincome areas.s so everyone has a chance to move forward financially. pnc bank: see how we can make a difference for you. this pride month, and all year long, we have seen a spike and attacks on lgbtq americans across the country. and they have come into farms. vicious conspiratorial rhetoric and aggressive state level legislation. but homophobia is far from a new problem in america. joining me now is james kerr check, the author of the new book, secret city, the hidden history of gay washington. he is also a columnist for a magazine and a writer at large for air mao. james, welcome. we have seen a surge of anti gay conspiracies in american politics this year, for sure. high-profile conservatives are

spouting off about gay people being groomers and all of those ugly narratives, forming out there. how they're trying to corrupt children and recruit children. but this isn't new, there it? when did gay fearmongering and get hysteria and homophobia really begin to emerge and take hold in american politics? >> well, i would say began around the 1950s, really, with the rise of mccarthyism. we've obviously have homophobic attitudes in america going back hundreds of years. religiously based bigotry of gay people. what happens after world war ii in the start of the cold war that homosexuality becomes in conflated with communism. and there is a belief, one, that gay people are more susceptible to blackmail because they're trying to protect their secret and their four, they will give over government secret to foreign powers. and there's also a belief that because gay people are sexual

non conformist, that they must also be political non conformists. and so, what happens is that there is this purge of thousands of gay people from the federal government called the lavender scare. and it is co-terminus with the red scare. we all know about the red scare. but the lavender scare affected as many if not more people. it is not as well-known in the united states. >> to your point, a great deal of the book does focus and dedicates itself to those misconceptions around the red and lavender scales. you lay out evidence that the government was more concerned with haunting gay people than actually haunting communists. tell us about that. >> well, there weren't that many communists and the federal government. there were a handful, certainly not hundreds that joe mccarthy was alleging. but there were a lot of gay people. so, give you pillow most were easier targets in the sense. because as we know, something like 5 to 10 of the ponderous --

population is guy. there were large numbers of gay people, at least proportionate to our size of the population and all -- it was a real period of fear and hysteria. thousands of people lost their jobs, many committed suicide. it was a very dark chapter in our country's history. >> it's really interesting because when you consider the homophobia in the 20th century, i found a particularly interesting and astounding, the number of gay americans that fought to secure positions of influence inside washington. and particularly, when you consider the coterie of gay friends and advisers around presidents like john f. kennedy, folks like -- and gore of it all. how does that happen? what does that say about that period and the movement by gay

americans to establish a space? >> it is a recurring theme in my book is that we see these presidents. in my book, it starts with fdr. many of them have close friends, who are gay or advisers who are gay. and so, fdr, his under secretary of state, his closest diplomatic adviser, was a man named sumner wells. and he became a victim of really the first anti gay purge in the federal government, when his enemies and the state department use this charge against him. dwight eisenhower, really the man was very important to him and getting him elected, arthur vandeberg junior, the son of the republican senator. he was a gay man and hoover got him fired just before he was about to enter the white house. you mentioned jfk. richard next than, his chief speech writer was a gay man. unfortunately, it didn't affect the policies of these presidents. they all have these close gay friends. they all depended upon them for advice, for speech writing, all

sorts of things. and yet, it didn't impact the public policies of any of these administrations. it really doesn't change until the clinton administration. >> there are a lot of personalities that you share with us in the book. but some stood out more than others and i was particularly intrigued by lady i'll capone odessa. talk a little bit about her and some of your favorite characters that you came across in your research. >> she was really a phenomenal character. she was described by one of those years as my book at being half robin hood, half all capone. she was really the most powerful black women in washington in the 1940s. she was an underworld figure. she ran rackets and prostitution rings. she was also a lesbian. and she operated one of the most popular nightclub in washington called club

moderate. she had pretty good relationships with much of the metropolitan police department. another figure who is very important is a man named frank -- he was the first gay person fired by the federal government to actually challenge his firing, which he does in 1957, when he is fired from the army mount service. he doesn't win at first. he tries to get the supreme court to hear his case and they reject him. but he starts one of the most important gay rights organizations in america. they have the first meeting actually at the adams hotel in 1961, called the mattachine society. he wages a very important struggle. they organ zion -- the first pickets for gay rights -- that's four years before the stonewall uprising. he's another very important figure in the book. there's a lot more i could probably spend an hour talking about every person. read the book. >> definitely read the book! it is worth the time.

james, the new book a secret city. the history of gay washington. thank you so much. still ahead, forwards you have never expected here in the same sentence. thank you, kevin mccarthy. in mccarthy. plus an extra boost of support for your immunity, brain, and hair, skin & nails. new one a day multi+.

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the january six committee

hearings and previous hearings in trump's misconduct if the absence of trump apologist like this guy. >> the whole premise for how this trump russia investigation started in the first place -- i did not cast aspersions. i read his statements. >> since i believe the gentleman cast aspersions -- >> you're wrong! 2018, president trump had already done more for ukraine than obama did! >> it is quite possible -- >> he doesn't share that. >> mr. jordan, you may not like his answer, but -- we will hear the witnesses answer. >> that was ohio congressman jim jordan playing trump's defender in chief, house minority leader kevin mccarthy initially selected jordan to sit on the january 6th panel. but he was rejected by speaker nancy pelosi along with the congressman -- over their efforts to invalidate the 2020 election. that led kevin mccarthy to boycott the hearings entirely.

and let me speak for all of us when i say, thank you kevin mccarthy by not filling the committee with qanon bomb throwers and supporters of the big lie. because these have been some of the most damning, consequential congressional hearings ever. our panel is back with us. jonathan, danielle -- all right, here we go. you guys ready for rock and roll number two? here we go. so, jonathan, in a washington post opinion column -- quote, mccarthy thought that by walking away entirely, he would be able to discredit the work of the committee as partisan. bad call. with none of his allies there to throw stand into the gears, the committee was able to organize a seamless presentation. your thoughts? >> oh, absolutely. let's keep something in mind. the reason why house minority

leader kevin mccarthy opted not to put any folks on the committee was because his master's voice from either new jersey or mar-a-lago said, you shouldn't be a part of this, quote unquote, witch hunt. this, quote unquote, sham process. so at the time when he decided not to put anybody on the committee, donald trump was saying, don't put anybody on the committee. but as we know now, as a result of reporting last week, now donald trump is lake, maybe that was a mistake. and here is what i think. donald trump is going to use the fact that kevin mccarthy followed his orders and the orders turned out to be wrong, as part of the bill of particulars donald trump will

use against kevin mccarthy if the republicans take back the house. he will use that as part of the evidence as to why he can't support kevin mccarthy for speaker of the house. >> yeah, that and then some. daniel, to jonathan's point, political points out, quote, the mercurial form of the presidents dissatisfaction is filling interview as trump watches hearings that hone in on his election subversion and his role in the attack with no friendly republicans to combat or distract from the panels presentation. behind closed doors, some gop lawmakers view trump's peak over their boycott of the committee as a sign that the january six committee is breaking through with the public. do you view it that way? that the absence of trump defenders is helping the hearings breakthrough in a way that they otherwise may now have? >> yes, because all the clips that you just played of jim jordan, all the sounds like it

is a lapdog. that to me is what he sounds like. he was saying nothing that made sense. that would be the point of any of the people that kevin mccarthy would have placed on this committee. it would -- they would've been there to do nothing for the american people, not give us pertinent information. -- and who was a part of the aritecture and the strategy around bringing down our democracy? and so, this is actually a serious committee with a serious representatives, who are interested in making sure that the american people understand the gravity of the situation that we are in. because to everybody, the coup is not done. the coup is continuing. we have hundreds of federal judges that were appointed by donald trump. we have a 6 to 3 supreme court. we have people that are operating at school boards that are banning books. and banning whole language around lgbtq+ people.

and so, the coup is still happening. and it is successful. right? the committee's job right now is incredibly important. to lay out exactly how donald trump was the architect, the mastermind, behind going after his own vice president. we have never seen that in this country ever before. that is something that we have seen in a movies, but not in these united states. >> she had on a number of important targets. -- shows that 58% of americans say they are following news about the january 6th committee closely. only 41% say they are not. could these hearings have that kind of impact that daniel is referring to? >> it's possible. i think it is really interesting is, a lot of the cynical reporters have expected not a lot of people to watch these.

we were thinking because we've been talking about this for a long time, inflation -- but that they wouldn't be watching. but we know that they are obviously watching, according to the poll. and most importantly, they also believe that this committee is nonpartisan and doing its work in a really important truth based way. and when we talk to aids on the committee, they have talked about how they want to make sure the facts and the witnesses leave them where they want to go. you heard chair bennie thompson say that over and over and over again. that has been happening. i think folks are surprised because we are used to watching hearings with jim jordan going off and you have a democrat that starts yelling back. we're used to this partisan bickering. but that is not what we are seeing. with the american people are seeing as republicans who worked for donald trump or worked in places of power

during the trump administration, in the states or agencies around washington d.c.. and his own children talking about how he was trying to subvert the will of the people, both before and after the election and up until january 6th. and so, that gives this level of gravitas that a lot of folks i think we're not expecting. will that change anything when it comes to voting or anything like that? it's hard to know. getting people to care about democracy is a little bit more difficult. but people are watching and are paying attention. i think it actually has more to do with 2024. something that we have heard from republican after republican strategist. you're probably hearing this too. these hearings are basically commercials for people like rhonda santas in florida, who wants to run and may want to run in 2024 for the republican nomination because of how bad they are making donald trump look. >> --

thank you both so much. i enjoy the conversation. jonathan, stick around, my friend. i will ask you about your new pride special airing next on msnbc. we will be right back. we will be right back. so you only pay for what you need. (emu squawks) if anyone objects to this marriage, speak now or forever hold your peace. (emu squawks) (the crowd gasps) no, kevin, no! not today. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ questlove is the poetry of stillness.

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you can catch a new msnbc special, hosted by my good friend, jonathan -- entitled pride of stage and screen, which focuses on lgbtq representation in tv, movies, and on broadway. if you choose interviews with harvey fire stain, michael jackson, who just won the tony for his musical a strange loop, and a luverne cox. here is a sneak peek. >> your reaction to these anti-lgbtq bills in state legislatures that are targeting trans kids. >> it's devastating.

it's devastating for me as a trans person. it's devastating as a person who has traveled the country and met trans kids. when i was doing my speaking tour, i met a family. they brought her nine-year-old trans good to see me. and they said, we drove nine hours so that our daughter could see a positive trans representation. >> jonathan, congratulations on this special. tell us a little bit about it. >> so, i want to see a strange loop on its very first preview night on broadway and i was so blown away by michael are jackson's musical that he wrote that won the pulitzer prize and 2020. but also by the performance of spivey, the lead actor. and i thought, i have to do something with them. oh, pride month is coming.

i wonder if i can do a special with jackson and spivey and let me think of other people that would be wonderful to be in this special. and luckily, thankfully, wilson cruz, luverne cox, harvey fire stephen, differing jacob, who is an out, queer, indigenous woman, who is going to be the newest marvel comics superhero -- michael, it is just -- i can't even put into words what it will mean to perhaps millions of kids around the country, who wonder, especially if they're not a blue state, wonder if there are people out there who are like them. and to be able to see the folks we just showed on the screen, --

to show them that you can be your entire self, your full self, and go on to do great things. all of those people i interviewed talk about what's it meant to see someone, who either looked like them or was like them or identified like them. and what it meant to them. it meant the world to them. i hope that everyone, someone, who is watching, we'll see themselves represented. >> congratulations again, jonathan, on this. before we go, i need to bring up something i saw on msnbc this morning. your pants! i am sitting there and i am thinking, i'm looking at my own belly over the serial and going, this brother done change the game! -- you are looking sharp on pride

sunday! >> well, thank you. and you know what? those pants are vintage by now. they were brand-new when i bought them in the year 2000 at paul smith. the boutique -- just a few blocks down from that hammer location. i thought, it's pride. those are rainbow-ish. let me put them on! and 22 years later, they stop it! >> he had his pride pants on and he has pride about it! thank you so much, my friend. really appreciate you. you can watch jonathan's special in just a moment. it is starting at 10 pm eastern right here on msnbc. so, i want to thank all of you for making time for us this evening. catch ayman back here on msnbc saturdays at eight and sundays at nine. and stream new, original episodes on fridays on peacock.

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summer's nbc special, pride of stage and screen. why didn't mean to feel seen, and have your life experiences and identity reflected in the media? here's the bigger question.