good afternoon, i'm kris jansing. at this hour it's clear that cassidy hutchinson's spell binding testimony lived up to the hype and then son. along with a exclamation point on the dramatic stories of donald trump and single minded determination to stay in power, did she provide evidence that crimes were committed or push the justice department any closer to taking action against the people in charge on january 6th. the answer may be in what she told us about the former president's mind-set which is key to building a legal case against him the stories that we previously heard, for those that sat by and did not to stop the

rioters with the story we heard on tuesday. >> i informs the vicinity and they said something to the fact like i don't care that they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me, let me people in, they can march to the capital from here. >> president trump was aware that a number of the individuals in the crowd had weapons and were wearing body armor. and here is what president trump instructed the crowd to do. >> we're going to walk down, i'll be there with you. we're going to walk down to the capitol. >> former chief of staff said that was a claim changer. >> i have seen him try to bring

violence with no violence at all. but after yesterday when he testified he knew there was guns on the property and he still encouraged people to go to the capitol that certainly changes my mind. >> so the question now is does that change other people's minds? or if they heard something in her testimony that might be a smoking gun. one of the key potential witnesses now is very clearly pat cipollone, the former white house attorney who said they thought they would be charged with "every crime imaginable." liz cheney said it is time for him to testify on the record. i want to bring in mike the schmidt. peter baker is the chief white house correspondent for the

times. harry litman is a former assistant attorney general, and elana was a aide in the obama white house. this is a extraordinary moment. does it look more likely than not that she could face criminal charges. >> i'm going to rely on that could, but certainly the evidence is gone. not simply becoming stronger, but it is taking up different category. we had before some question, did he know about the violence, what could be said about his state of mind? now we not only know he knows about it, but he is fmenting it. he is eager and completely hysterical about leading the

charge knowing that beyond any doubt of course they're violent and he wants them to not go through the mags. this puts him in the category of the most serious charges so far to date. that is because we know the those charges that involve forcible -- use of force to either overthrow the u.s. or just simply obstruct an investigation or proceeding, he not only knows about it but he is trying to make it happy. he is really the head hon choe. so a game changer for sure. >> the secret service has been prepared to dispute the affect of what she hurt. and they tried to drap the wheel

but whatever happens there seems to be no mistake that he wanted to go to the capital. what did he expect hen he got there if not a potentially violent effort to overturn the election? >> there is a question that has emerged with the secret service officials saying that these two individuals are willing to come forward and kef to refute her claim about what happened in the car. it is very easy in investigations for people to say they will come forward and testify nap is a situation where a lawyer would not want their client to come in. they know someone is coming in to testify, because the committee that said that they're looking at general referrals may

look at such a example, such a problem and say well, we have one person saying one thing over here, under oath. we have another saying something different. how about we just send this to the justice department to figure out who is telling the truth or not. that has happened before. it is easy for people to say they will come forward and testify but it is different for them to do that. the secret service tried to push back on some of the disclosures in the aftermath. some of the prescribed from the secret service. not as good as the disclosures were. so it remains to be seen here what will happen and if this is just sort of posturing that is going on in the aftermath of this to try and deflect some of

the attention cast on the agency. >> i want to talk a little about mind-set, and we heard throughout all of this is the fact that what was going on inside of donald trump's head, what, that you heard yesterday, indicates to you that that part of it, that part of the case, could be built? >> several things, and not just built as to obstruction, but as to violence. very important. he knows they are armed. he told them let them come through, they're not going to hurt me. very important he wants to go with them to the capitol and leave the charge, very important, he is very -- he is quite upset when he is told he can't go and briefly to michael's point, i think it is all a side show. what cassidy testified to is this is what dan ornato, the

head of the secret service said. if he was not telling the truth he should come forward and testify he is a trump loyalist and probably the reason that mike pence didn't want to let the secret service take him away on january 6th, but this is nothing about cassidy ruch nson's possible credibility. this is about what the head of the secret service said, if any, it wasn't true and he was just very, very eager to get there, very frustrated when he could not go and did everything else, it would be just 95% as strong for his knowledge. >> so many people like mick mulvaney said they found her very credible, but almost while she was still testifying character assassination came out. >> yeah, he said i don't even

know her right now, she is nobody. and he uses that all of the time when he has someone he is trying to discredit. doesn't say anything about her credibility. today he continued his barrage. i think as harry and michael made a point, even if she was misinformed, she is telling what she heard. her credibility remains, you know, in tact if someone else told her this even if they were wrong. and she is there testified under oath and these deniers from the secret service have not yet under oath. maybe they will be, it will be interesting to see what they said. but i would take the fact that the president, the former president, is so actively trying to tear her down as a sign that they know how powerful her testimony was. she is 25 years old, barely out

of college, first job essentially of any consequence at the white house. and she was very composed, very precise. very matter of fact. unflappable. that is one reason why that the trump irkcircle is worried. >> contrast that with some of the men at the highest levels of government and peter the headline of your story in the times is a president untethered. we heard a lot about his behavior yesterday, but i want to play just one specific part of what hutchinson described. >> he was very concerned about the shots, meaning the photographs because the peace was not full. one of the reasons was that he wanted it to be full and for

people to not feel excluded. and he felt the mags were at fault for not letting everybody in. >> there is a consistency there, a predictability. these from the seriousness of allowing armed rioters to march to the capital to throwing plates in the white house seems like another level of untethered. >> it does, i think this is a description that resonates with a lot of people that worked for trump for four years. but rarely have you seen it described in such a way. it is so consequential, right? it's one thing if he throws a

dish because he is mad. it is another thing in the context of an effort to overturn an election and knowing an armed crowd of supporters are going to the capitol. that is a very different backdrop. we talked about this kind of thing, other presidents can be value tide. nixon through an ashtray at the wall, he was seen as being unstable in his final days before resignation, but nothing quite like this and nothing with the stakes and the consequences that they're trying to overturn a free and fair election. >> i want to pick up on the other thing peter said. i know that some are trying to portray hutchinson as a nobody. someone called her a

receptionist and coffee getter. what does her testimony tell you about that kind of criticism? >> i think it is unimpeachable. the fact that she was in the room, relied on for all of those meetings, means she is more than a glorified receptionist. i thoughter testimo and candor buttoned up with liz cheney's remarks explaining that we might see more information coming out related to trump and those around trump trying to intimidate witnesses. she by testifying in this way,

by being unflatble, she is in a severe level of risk and because thee is so young she had more, in theory, to lose by taking this position. i think she expressed herself as a patriot. >> so as you just pointed out here, there was a couple possible examples of that, here is one of them. >> this is a call received by one of our witnesses. a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he is thinking about you. he knows you're loyal and you're going to do the right thing when you go if nor your deposition. i think most americans know that attempting to influence witnesses to testify untruthfully presents very serious concerns.

>> harry, a lot of people are saying this is mop stuff. this is also something that most americans can clearly understand. >> and you know who else can? the department of justice. they hate this tough. for some reason prosecutors, this drives them insane and they're really sellous about it. and michael reported this person, it is the fact pattern is plainly stronger than many different case that's accomplished obstruction. stronger than, for example, what bill clinton was impeached for. this is really volatile. they will be all over this and they suggested it is not the

only one. >> i cam curious to see what happens if they're able to get gnat to testify. i was disturbed by the accounts of him saying we have to do something, we have to do something and mark med does just sittin there flipping on his phone. i want more of the circle to come in and be brought to bear and i'm potentially looking for more charges brought by the department of justice. >> and harry you're sticking around, a pointed call for witnesses to find some courage to testify. who is at the top of the committee's list? plus, brace for the worst. more flight cancellations are

coming. why experts don't think that this problem will go away any time soon. first the american suspect tied to the deadliest smuggling operation in u.s. history. we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling]

a mexican government officials says an american is in custody following that grewsome

and deadly truck. president biden is calling it horrifying and heartbreaking. nbc is live in eagle pass texas where the governor will hold their first news con for instance since that happened. what do we expect from the governor and what do we know about this american that is apparently in custody. >> the immediate response was to attack the biden administration and say that he was responsible for the deaths of migrants in that cargo trailer in is the first conference where he will be speaking the announcement was for him to talk about the border

crisis nap is being conducted by federal authorities. they're working with local and state officers on that investigation, but it was the mexican government as you mentioned this morning the president of mexico, every morning he has a press conference where he talks about issues that are affecting the country and you can expect about sorts of issues to be discussed. but they decided to share all of the details they have including a photo of the suspect. they also showed a map of the route the truck would have taken. they say it went through two checkpoints before arriving in san antonio. the government also shared a photo where you can see the driver in the truck as he crossed one of those check points. he pretended to be a migrant

before he was take ton a hospital in san antonio. we are still waiting to hear an official report from american authorities on that investigation, chris. >> thank you for that. we have new details about that fatal amtrak crash in missouri on monday. they say they now be able to pull video. four people were killed including the driver of thedump truck that was struck. also on the scene was a troop of boyscouts that rushed in to help. >> i tried to give him comfort pb just trying to slow the blood loss. adrenaline kicked in and i just knew what to do. all of these years but you never

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♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ zlchblg right now pressure is mounting on insiders. after the bombshell regulations. chairman betty thorms calling for reluctant witnesses to step up. >> if you heard this testimony today and suddenly you remember things that you could not previously recall, or there is some details you would like to clarify, or you have courage hidden away somewhere, our doors remain open. >> i also want to bring back harry hitman. is there a con sen us in what

you're hearing on the hill? who is likely the number one person on the list that chairman thomas would do right now? >> they want to hear from the white house council and they would also like to hear from mark meadows, the former chief of staff. he was choop rating, not cooperating, highlighting what she could inform, what they could get, but also why they would want someone like him to still come forward and it is something that jamie raskin echoed this morning. listen to why he said those two people are important. >>. >> mark meadows talks about how he started to cooperate. he is such a pivotal figure in

terms of even more egregious actions by then president donald trump. >> they made no secret about the fact they want cipollone to come forward. they urged him to come forward despite any concerns he may have. or like he said the institutional interests. but i was so struck, and i'm glad you played that bite. in the halls talking to thomas, he used the same tone he used there, daring people in trump's orbit to come forward. even as they lay out a public narrative are ohm to more facts. one of the questions is will

cipollone come forward. very critical, my best guess is he does. hutchinson's testimony is a game changer that brings to bear two different kinds of pressure. one is of potential criminal exposure. she took meadows to nearly the under water in that respect. but we also have a pressure of history, the john dean moment and what side are you on in is big enough that for a guy like pat who wants to be an establishment figure, his courage really makes a poor contrast with his sort of i don't want to say hiding behind, but his assertions of privilege

really make a really bill barr guy. my best guess is that they are trying to work out an arrangement. not because he is in general hot water, but because he doesn't want to be on the wrong side of history and a narrative that has now gotten profoundly more serious. >> so for those who might be, why would you come forward and talk to the jan 6th committee if the potential is that the doy is looking at you. >> this is what happens, you decide maybe you should play an open hand. but you're right, he is too big to get a free ride, but he is not too big to get some consideration. so he has to rethink his posture and think of what kind of problems he is in if he doesn't

come forward. he is thinking mainly about himself and his own skin. i don't see it happening with him. on the other hand i see it as way more likely than i did yesterday that the department will make him a very serious suspect or target of investigations. >> so because cassidy hutchinson seemed to be with mark meadows nearly all of the time, to the point where people commented on it and talked about it, she was known to a wide swath including mick mulvaney. i want to play something he said today. >> one of the take away social security that it is almost a guarantee now that he will have

to come and testify. >> he tweeted that he knows kasz i did. he believes her. do you think some reluctant witnesses will hang back and see what the campaign has against her, and in the noj if they're secondhand, is this potentially a waiting game? >> there is not that many areas. mulvaney coming forward is a real good example of what i'm talking about nap is an establishment figure. so he changes the side, but so they will have to take the fit, but there is not many areas of secondhand testimony. the other point is that if he doesn't come she supplies it. it increasing the question on you to know that you look forward and much of the

information, but in a way that looks bad for you may come out anyway. i think his lawyer is thinking seriously before letting them come forward and take the fifth 200 times. >>. >> you see that work for general flip. thank you very much. waiting in you hear with a fourth of july holiday weekend. we're learning new details. tom will join us to talk about why it is only expected to get worse. and is donald trump losing his grip on the g.o.p.? the latest primary results out of colorado suggesting political tides could be turning against the president. steve kornacki will join us from the big board on msnbc.

some new indications today

that former president trump's grip on the republican party may be slipping. colorado republicans rejected two election deniers running in yesterday's primary. joining me from the big board, steve kornacki. they effectively have said no to the big lie. what are the implications. >> it is an interesting test yesterday. you talk about the senate race. this is joe o'dea. ron hanks attended the speech and marched to capital afterward. the democrats were hoping to put some effort in to dell vat him and his primary. but what this mean social security o'dea will run now against senator michael bennet. the backdrop is colds is clearly

becoming a blue state. biden won it by 13.5 points but you look at the climate and it is not favorable. the approval rating is low and did republicans nominate for the senate in colorado? a candidate who doesn't have some of the vulnerabilities. i think that is a big question. >> republican incumbent, what happened there. >> this might be the single biggest of the night here. a republican congressman a couple weeks ago in the preliminary election came in second place to his challenger.

guests voted for that bipartisan commission, cassidy made it an issue. a lot of folks said if he could not get to 50% in the preliminary he will do it in the runoff. he put a tun of money in the runoff, and he blew out him in the runoff. so he will survive in a big way. a lot of folks thought this might be shaky. >> and not all of the news for trump was bad. there was a billionaire that poot $50 million of his own money into an unknown candidate. >> there was about 50 million here. wouldn't even say he voted for 2016. >> i wish i could figure out how

much that was. >> it was a lot, there was also a fascinating dynamic here. a lot of money behind darryn bailey. it wasn't just trump that endorsed him. democrats poured 30 million into an effort to promote bailey here. here they identified bailey, they think he is the weaker candidate, they spend huge to try to get people. darren bailey will be backed by trump and democratic money. we'll see if that pays off or plows off in their faces.

they are packing, and look at these numbers, 642 flight cancel police stations. airlines are struggling with pilot shortages. tom costello joins us with more. how much of the travel nightmares are about pilots and what are they doing to fix the problem? >> it is a big problem. >> they don't have enough pilots to fly and a lot of airline people say it is really egregious. why do you sell the seats to people, now the airlines are cutting those nights and they will cut about 5300 seats

between now and the end of august because they simply can't staff the flights appropriately. it is mostly a pilot issue. they had a lot of pilots take early retirement but it is also flight attendants. it can been concessionaries, the uber drivers, hotel employees, all of that and travel advocates say your travel journey could be disrupted from point to point. listen to this. >> dealing with the combinations of that and it will be really rough. >> we have enough flight cancellations today alone. we have 2500 or so this week

alone. because of weather, that will create more travel mess, more of a travel mess. they also have military activity flights off of the coast. so all of that is complicated matters, especially in florida where passenger volume is up more than 100% over 2019. what happened is that airlines saw people want today go to florida, they flooded the zone with schedules and they can't meet the schedules and now they're trying to cut back on many flights around the country. i have to say let's hope they can write their schedules in time for the holidays. otherwise this is not snag will be corrected. this will take years, years, not months. >> you have nall.

drive, it's nice time alone. >> and the rental cars are so inex-pensive, and the gas -- >> i might end up driving, thank you for that. >> in the meantime we have new developments in the legal saga of r. kelly. we're going live to brooklyn with the latest. you're watching "kris jansing reports" only on msnbc. only onc age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. time. it's life's most precious commodity,

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emotional afternoon. r. kelly's victims where telling us stories of things that happened to them in some cases 15 or 20 years ago. it's taken them that long to get justice, it's been an incredibly long journey. they've had to overcome shame to get to this day. one woman said, you stripped me of my dignity and self-respect, i wanted to die, based on the way she had been treated, i don't know if i will ever be whole again. one woman said she was treated as a sex slave. the judge will listen to all this, she's trying to decide what the sentence should be for kelly. the prosecutors are asking for up to life in prison. the defense says there are mitigating factors, that kelly was abused as a young person.

there's a possibility he may say something after the court reconvenes after lunch. we expect this to continue into the afternoon. the likelihood is that he will face a sentence of life in prison, 25 years or more is what the prosecution is asking for. he's 55, so effectively they're talking about a life sentence. >> ron, thank you for that. i know you'll come back to that when that sentence is handed down. paul, as a veteran prosecutor, help us understand what the judge is weighing both in terms of what we've heard about those victim impact statements, but is there something r. kelly could say that would be a mitigating factor? >> i don't think so. we've learned about his fame, his prestige, but also about the perversion, sadistic and masochistic behaviors especially with young people. this is a powerful moment, for the victims to come forward and

testify. oftentimes the things we're hearing and seeing in court today are things that were kept out of the trial, that the judge gets to hear as part of what he balances in determining the sentence. the 25 years plus that prosecution is asking for seems reasonable given the evidence that we've heard with over half a dozen folks that testified in this case as victims. this is both women and men that were abused and taken advantage of. this individual, r. kelly, has lived a life of wealth and fame for a very long time. i think the court is going to take all that into consideration in balancing a very hefty sentence. it's really not likely we're going to hear a sentence that's under ten years, as defense is asking for. if there's a smart legal team, they should read a statement from r. kelly that is apologetic. i don't know that i would let him testify in this way. i'm looking at several -- >> i want to ask you about

another big new york case, a convicted sex trafficker, ghislaine maxwell, confidante of jeffrey epstein. a judge sentenced her to 25 years in prison. she addressed the court, telling the victims she was "sorry for the pain you have experienced." here is how two of maxwell's accusers reacted outside the courtroom. >> "i'm sorry" doesn't cut it. actions speak louder than words. >> i felt a sense of calm that i haven't felt in almost three decades. i kept reminding myself that she was in front of me in shackles, being sentenced. >> i'm sorry for the pain you have experienced, not that i inflicted on you. then she got 20 years, lower than the 30 to 55 that the prosecutors wanted.

why do you think the judge went lower? >> i think the judge went lower because she was not epstein. but she still played an active role. this is another case where we're seeing the weight and the cost of wealth and influence balanced against criminal behavior. i just want to make the point because i know this is the issue that her defense attorneys are arguing, that she was the stand-in for epstein. that is not the case. she was found guilty of her behavior. there were facts and evidence indicating she knew what she was doing. this was calculated. she took advantage of women and took advantage of children, which is why she got the sentence she got. i think the court balanced between her not being the principal actor in the offences that many women were taken advantage of and abused for, that probably weighed into the factor that reduced her sentence. but she still got a substantive, substantive sentence. and there are more lawsuits

coming on the civil side from both of the cases we talked about, numerous lawsuits will come out of this for folks trying to diminish the wealth in the estates from all of the actors associated with these transgressions. this is a really serious crime, it's a really serious sentence. i expect for both of these individuals to be in custody for decades. and that's the apology that they will give to their victims. >> you hope that the victims feel, as the one said she did, that for the first time in decades a sense of relief came over her. paul, thank you so much. join us for "chris jansing reports" 1:00 eastern time right here on nbc. i'm sticking around for our next hour, so stay with us. around ft hour, so stay with us.

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