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it cannot come at a more critical time. with more legal exposure for the twice impeached former president after cassidy hutchinson provided a smoking gun, starting with as she exposed in the clearest detail yet that the former president was aware of the threat of violence from his supporters on january 6. >> i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something to the effect of, i don't fin' care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take the fin' mags away. let my people in. they can march to the capitol here. >> that's damning in light of the former president's speech to his armed followers. >> fight like hell. if you don't fight like hell, you are not going to have a country anymore. >> that kind of fight like hell, fight, fight, fight language was what the former president's

lawyers said would be foolish to include. >> they were urging the speech writers to not include that language for legal concerns and also for the optics of what it could portray the president wanting to do that day. >> hutchinson offered references to criminality white recounting conversations with the then white house counsel, the aforementioned pat cipollone, and crimes he was worried about involving a plan for the former president to march to the capitol with his followers. >> pat was concerned it would look like they were obstructing justice or obstructing the electoral college count. he was also worried it would look like we were inciting a riot or encouraging a riot to erupt on the capitolcapitol. >> she added that cipollone said this just before they leapt for

ellipse. >> mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> of course, thus far, cipollone had refused to cooperate with the committee. another figure with questions to answer is also refusing to testify, at least for now, ginni thomas. an attorney represents her said it it needs to provide better justification for thomas to provide testimony. joining me now, peter strauch, paul butler. start with you, paul. the significance in your view of the subpoena of pat cipollone. i will read this release that says the select committee

investigation has revealed evidence that mr. cipollone repeatedly raised concerned about president trump. the committee needs to hear from him on the record as other former white house counsels have done in other congressional investigations. your thoughts on this subpoena, paul? given all of the things that he was concerned about from the speech to walking to the capitol. he said they could be charged with every crime imaginable. >> joy, the house panel had to subpoena pat cipollone. but it's probably not going to work -- with a house investigation, he will do the trump thing of trying to beat the clock. he will probably be able to stall by making bogus objections

until the midterm elections when the panel is likely to get neutralized or co-opted by republicans. the feds can still hold cipollone accountable. the fbi should have a nice sit down with him. or he needs to be hauled into a federal grand jury. he needs to be required to answer on the record why on january 3 he told trump he would face serious legal problems if he went to the rally, if he went to the capitol. cipollone is the connection between the way that trump incited the mob and the criminal legal theories trump had been alternate electors. so far, cipollone is acting like a coward, not a patriot. >> or, nick, the other way of thinking about this -- there's been a little of this out there. people like cipollone who want to appear to be loyal to donald trump want to be subpoenaed. then, like the documentary

filmmaker who wants his future documentary subjects to not think that he will snitch on them after filming them, and then somehow be testified, he probably wanted it to come from a subpoena. therefore, he is doing it because he is under duress. maybe the duress is what gives cipollone the opportunity to speak out. here, by the way, he came down on the right side on all of these questions, urging trump not to break the law. >> i think you could be right. we just don't know what way he will go. cipollone will want to look as though he is a loyalist to donald trump. on the other hand, he does come across as being the person in the room that is basically telling donald trump not to commit any crimes. he does come across as somebody who is on the right side on all of these issues. you are right, a lot of times witnesses will come in only with

a subpoena so that it doesn't appear as though they are bending over backwards to cooperate. he really has no basis to fight this subpoena. he has no attorney/client privilege with donald trump. there's no attorney/client privilege for the office -- white house counsel. he represents the institution, not the individual. he doesn't have trump's -- he doesn't have any kind of executive privilege here, because executive privilege doesn't apply to criminal activity. that issue was resolved in 1974 in u.s. v. nixon by the supreme court. he could wind up deciding, i'm going to take the subpoena, i have no choice and be forced to testify. you could be 100% right. paul could also be right. we will have to see what happens. >> we will see what happens. peter, i just want to remind

people of what in real time pat cipollone was hearing and what he was understanding to be taking place. this was some of the video audio bits played during this most recent hearing. it's damning stuff. it was clear there were people in trees with ar-15s. listen to a little bit of this. s

>> peter, from your law enforcement experience, can you think of any reason why any white house security detail, secret service, why any chief of staff would allow the president of the united states to be essentially accompanied by and mix in with people who were armed the way you just heard described and then be allowed to go to the capitol after having demanding the armed people go, too? >> i can't imagine a more difficult domestic situation. you have the president of the united states who is whipping that crowd into a frenzy along with other folks and demanding to march down to the capitol. what's interesting, when you look at the president's statements that came out in the hearing that he allegedly said he didn't say they're not here to hurt anyone. he said, they're not here to hurt me. when you think about that and you break it down -- this was in the context of him trying to get the secret service to remove the

mags. the more this information comes out, the stunning footage of people in trees, people in law enforcement are saying we have folks with ar-15s, long guns, other not clubs, not flagpoles, but actual semiautomatic rifles, that's an extraordinarily dangerously situation. we are blessed there wasn't more bloodshed. >> can you imagine what might have happened? use your imagination here. if trump had been allowed to enter the capitol, which was his plan. entering the capitol either with secret service, aroundarmed sec service or crowd points and oath

keepers, what might have happened inside the house chamber? >> joy, i can't even begin to try to fathom what that would look like, where trump would go in, who he would demand to talk to, whether he would enter the chamber and try to make a speech in front of congress or go into the rotunda, what the secret service would do on the one hand, trying to protect the president from harm, on the other hand, again, a crowd whipping into a frenzy that we know was armed, that we know was at that time or imminently about to start fighting capitol police and metropolitan police officers to gain entrance. i don't know how you have this violent activity going on, the east side, west side, bear spray, all the images we have seen again and again and again, and in the middle of that to have president trump and a motorcade driving up, etch i -- exiting into the chaos. it's difficult to envision. it speaks to the almost panic that you heard recounted about what pat cipollone was saying,

we can't go down there. we will end up breaking so many different laws. i can't imagine what that scene would look like. >> it would -- >> absolute chaos. >> a coup. >> it was. >> there is the -- indeed. paul, there's the first person to the finish line can maybe get a deal kind of thing that i know a little about from talking to you about the way prosecutors think. you have john eastman, he dropped his lawsuit to keep his call logs away from the committee. he is becoming more cooperative. we know his phone was seized. he is going through some things right now. when you have got that kind of thing happening and some people starting to cooperate, this is not necessarily any legal case, does that start to put the fear of god in your mind into other people who may have wanted a pardon and think they committed

crimes? >> absolutely. the house panel is getting closer. hopefully, the prosecutors at the justice department are playing super close attention. people very close to trump are being embroiled in this scandal. yesterday we heard from cassidy hutchinson. she was in contact with the two most powerful people in the country. with trump and his chief of staff. her boss. i think that eastman knows that there's the world before cassidy hutchinson's testimony and the evidence we have before and the evidence that we have after, the evidence that we have after is increasingly pointing the spotlight at people at the top, including donald trump. he is hoping now that he is this obscure law professor, maybe he could be a kind of small fish and help get the big fish. maybe. on the other hand, joy, eastman

is crazy. he is wacky. who knows? he doesn't seem to be -- it doesn't add up. he wanted to represent himself. i'm not sure he is at a point where he is making any kind of rational decisions. a lawyer would tell him cooperate. >> not all the eggs are in the skillet. let's go to all of the potentials, nick. will give you the task of talking about what potential crimes are on the table. liz cheney describing what sounded like witness tampering. donald trump reads the transcripts. he wants to see you are loyal. you have that. you have what sur sounds like sedition on the part of trump wanting to lead that into the capitol, trying to assault his own secret service agents to force hem to take him, which, of course, we have questions about that. i would love to have those agents on the record testifying about that. what could trump be facing legally?

>> legally, if i were drafting the indictment right now, i would be looking at this as an overall scheme to defraud the united states by stealing the election from joe biden. as part of that scheme, the overriding falsehood in the scheme was donald trump's big lie that he won the election by a landslide and that it was stolen from him. which has been proven right across the boards by his own attorney general, who told him he didn't win, by his own numbers guy who told him he didn't win, and by virtue of common sense, because since 2016, when he first ran for president, in the primaries, roger stone invented this whole stop the steal for him, which he has been using ever since. this is just a tactic. as part of the tactic, he then went on to try and pressure state authorities in battleground states to change the vote from biden to himself.

he called up raffensperger, the secretary of state of georgia. he called up governor kemp to try and get him to call a special session of the legislature in georgia and to also decertify the vote for biden. when those things didn't work -- including randy bauer, he then tried to get a new attorney general who would write a letter saying that the election was won by fraud. then on top of that, he tried to pressure mike pence, a scheme to pressure mike pence into basically refusing to certify the vote and came up with this crazy scheme of illegal electors. he made up electors in the battleground states that he wanted mike pence to count instead of the real electors. when all of that didn't work, we found out yesterday that his

last ditch effort was to use violence to stop the vote on january 6. that was the whole point of it. we didn't know this before yesterday. today, we know that in fact, his plan ultimately, his ultimate plan was to stop that vote on january 6 by creating violence and mayhem throughout the capitol, such that the next day they could all claim, well, the state should reconsider the vote. >> yeah. summarized pretty well. we will see if it goes to court. thank you all very much. we didn't talk about mark meadows. his failure to do the job as the insurrection raged on. it's the cumination of a political career riddled with bad judgment. political career riddled with bad judgment

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morning where he was scrolling and typing. have you talked to the president? he said, no, he wants to be alone. looking at his phone. i start to get frustrated. i remember thinking in that moment, mark needs to snap out of this. i don't know how to snap him out of this. he needs to care. >> at yesterday's hearing we heard about the contrast between the violence prone donald trump and his zombified mark meadows who would be brought back from cassidy hutchinson, mentioning that jim might be in danger. meaning jim jordan. the chief of staff is supposed to be the most active member of the team. her testimony depicted meadows as anyone but that on that day. meadows was donald trump's fourth chief of staff in just over three years.

he was probably the most closely aligned with the extreme maga movement because of who mark meadows is. he emerged from the tea party movement, along with his friend jim jordan. was first elected to the house in 2012 campaigning on the birtherism conspiracy theory. >> what we're going to do is take back our country. 2012 is the time we will send mr. obama home to kenya or wherever it is. we will do it. >> illinois to hawaii. once in congress he founded the house freedom caucus with jordan and ron desantis. good company. in 2013, meadows helped engineer the fourth longest federal government shutdown in our country's history. in hopes of stopping atted forable -- the affordable care act. that cost $24 billion.

he long advocated against the lgbtq community. he signed on to a 2019 brief to the supreme court advocating against adding lgbtq people as protected under the civil rights act because they don't actually exist for him. rather, are choosing, quote, actions, behaviors or inclinations. he supported child molester roy moore when he ran for senate in alabama in 2017. moore denied those allegations. we cannot forget in 2019 when meadows paraded lynn paton, a black member of the trump administration, like a prop during a hearing of michael cohen to challenge cohen's claims that trump is a racist. not once was she allowed to say a word. meadows spoke for him. when it comes to january 6, we learn more and more about what meadows knew ahead of time about

the dangers on january 6. worse than his inaction might have been his inclination to not protect our democracy and the colleagues in congress but rather protecting the insurrectionists them services. a report last year says that meadows sent an email prior to january 6 saying that the national guard would be present at the capitol to protect the pro trump people. joining me now is tim miller, author of "why we did it." let's talk about this. the january 6 -- the picture of an almost catatonic mark meadows emerges throughout cassidy's testimony. wouldn't he about the one person out of every one of the administration who would know what donald trump knew, exactly what donald trump had plan and if donald trump did plan to have

violence as part of the plan, wouldn't he know that? >> well, i think it's hesitant to accuse the former president of having any kind of plan. this was a reactor that certainly mark meadows knew about donald trump's feelings and emotions and whims better than anyone else. you went through the sheet of meadows' past. skipped over when he lied about donald trump's covid diagnosis. and about how serious it was when trump went to the hospital. it was meadows that was sitting with trump that whole time in the hospital, was the only one besides the family in the room. he had built that rapport with trump. he was the one, as we have seen from other parts of the hearings, who was receiving the crazy emails from powell and the

pillow guy and ginni thomas. he was not part of team normal. he was fully bought in on trying to overturn the election. i think the most -- that's why i agree for all the crazy revelations about trump yesterday, because cassidy was so close with meadows, i thought that was the most critical thing. she has him dead to rights. he knew that there could be violence. she testified to that. when the violence was being perpetrated, he did nothing. he was the most powerful person short of donald trump in the country as far as being able to call in the national guard, call in people able to help. he did nothing. i love that word, catatonic. i think he is the keyman right -- the key man to find out more information. >> it was as if he left his

body. only saying, jim jordan, snapped him out of it. i left out that he committed election fraud. pretended he lived in a trailer in north carolina that he didn't even own in order to vote there. he was investigated for it. i want to play another sound bite. she's describing -- this is her trying to tell mark meadows, the chief of staff, that the protests had breached the capitol they were nearing the capitol. >> i had gone over to the car. i went to open the door to let him know. he immediately shut it. i don't know who he was speaking with. it wasn't something that he regularly did, especially when i would go over to give him information. i was a bit taken aback. >> were you able to have that conversation a few moments later? >> probably about 20 to 25 minutes later. there was another period where he shut the door again. >> one of the big mysteries that's going to come out of this is who was he talking to?

it wasn't trump. he is in jeopardy. he got $1 million from trump from the $250 million slush fund. trump has kept him paid. i wonder if -- i have this theory trump is the next generation of the tea party. a lot of his strongest supporters are tea party people like jim jordan. are these people strong enough maga to go to jail for donald trump? >> i think that needs to be tested. obviously, he has been subpoenaed. i think this is someone that possibly should be indicted very soon. that was my biggest takeaway yesterday. i will leave it to the legal experts on how. i think that he should be indicted. financial part of this, i'm glad you mentioned that, is really relevant. when i was working on the book, i was interviewing people that worked for him and trying to figure out why this was -- why are people going along with this?

that was something people came back to with meadows. when he left -- he is not financially secure like many of the other folks that are independently wealthy. that's an important element. the other element to this is, he has to feel a deep shame and guilt. cassidy hutchinson was his closest advisor. it's crazy she was a 24-year-old woman to the chief of staff, an important role. he left her hung out to dry. she was the one that had the courage to stand up yesterday. think about how helpless that leaves him and how filled with guilt and shame. i think that's a big reason why you see someone that feels that bad is going to lash out. i think that will continue this behavior we have seen from him. >> i like you. you are a hopeful person that you think people have shame. they can feel shame. that makes me understand why you are a -- >> he cried. remember when he cried?

he cried when he was called a racist on the house floor. this is a person that can feel shame. >> he showed the black lady. look at her. is she not black? is she not standing here before you being black in front of you? how dare you? he did do that. tim miller, look at her. thank you very much. i appreciate you. have a good rest of the day. reversal of roe v. wade has some states scrambling to protect women's reproductive rights. others are gleefully working to strip them away. strip them away. hi. we're zerowater. and we believe everyone deserves the purest tasting water. that's why we strive for zero. you see, to some it means nothing. but to us, it means everything. here, take a look. this meter showing triple zeros means our five-stage

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the supreme court decision to overturn roe v. wade is politically unpopular. women have been deemed to have fewer rights than men. women have more rights in some states than others. it created a legal mess with abortion totally banned in some red states, others caught up in court and some waiting for bans to take affect. your reproductive rights depend on if you live in a democratic state. even in some purple states, michigan's governor is fighting a law that's so old it barely reads in modern english, banning the intent thereby to procure

the miscarriage of any such woman from 1931. cannot hold a candle to wisconsin's 1849 law which criminalizing the guilty of a quick child. late today, arizona's republican attorney general said the state's 1864 ban was back in effect and that he would ask the court to vacate the injunction put into place after roe v. wade. republicans aren't just sticking to the old laws, they have introduced a law in michigan in case that 1931 law does not hold up that would include harsh penalties for providers and would ban the drug plan b. it's so ambiguous that a hospital system stopped providing plan b to their rape victims out of fear they are violating it. a quick lesson for everyone, plan b is not abortion. if you are pregnant, plan b will not work. it delays your body from

releasing an egg, making it impossible for fertilization to occur. joining me now is the congresswoman. thank you for being here. i apologize for my dog being here. she wants to be part of the show. let's talk about this. the thing that struck a lot of people quite frankly is the absolute aggression of republicans, the quick aggression where they are digging up laws from the early 20th century or 19th century, going hard saying, you can't leave the state, we will prosecute you if you fly out of state or drive out of state, that thing. the democrats, the response is muted to a lot of people. the white house say, it will be

dangerous to provide services on federal lands. you have had the administration -- it is reported they are unlikely to go with this list of ideas that senator warren and others have given to them that could use the federal power. the senate tried to codify abortion protections, passing the bill that came out of the house. it got filibustered. are you concerned that the official party response has been too muted? >> joy, the first thing is, we just cannot stop talking enough about these radical extremist republicans and what they're doing across the country, digging in to try to find every way that they can criminalize pregnant people across the country. that's really, really important. they're doing things that are -- they will be challenged in court on some of the things. it's really creating fear and

trauma for people across the country. in terms of democrats, i think that the white house -- the main leverage that the white house has is with medication abortion. because of the hyde amendment, hands are tied in terms of federal lands and some of the other things we were trying to come up with in the moment. because of the hyde amendment, hands are tied. the way that probably the white house is going to be able to have the biggest impact is around medication abortion. that's making sure that people can obtain pills in their farm says. they did pass a rule in december of 2020 overturning a trump rule that was there before. the fda is moving slowly on this. we need urgency. this is a crisis. you will hear me say this again and again. we need telehealth. this is a crisis. the white house has said they will do these things.

i appreciate that. i think we just need the urgency. then we also need the bully pulpit of the white house to be used. i hope we see the president and vice president harris saying that they support carving out an exception to the filibuster to codify roe v. wade if we get more democrats into congress. i was going to say, you heard me talk about eliminating the filibuster. >> yeah. >> the system is broken. what's happening in the vacuum of the senate not acting on everything from voting rights to abortion rights to gay marriage, you name it, gun reform, is the supreme court, a radical republican controlled supreme court is stepping into that vacuum and using this vacuum as an opportunity to overturn

precedent. not just roe but signalled with the majority's opinion and with clarence thomas, you can name them all. all of these things. that's why it's so important that we take bold executive action that congress, that the house pass, whatever we can pass, that the two senators who said they were misled by these members of the supreme court, that they -- i think it's incumbent on them to turn and vote for an exception to the filibuster to codify this. do you think that's going to happen? maybe not. that's why the november ballot box then becomes so important. >> i'm glad you explained that. i wish we had more time. it's very hard to convince people to give democrats more power when people feel, you are not using the power you have. thank you for explaining. the house is passing all the bills. the senate is where they are dying. if you don't get two more senators in there to replace

those two who aren't playing ball, nothing gets through that senate. that's how you get power. add more people. unfortunately, that's what you gotta do. thank you very much. up next, the tragic death of 53 migrants in texas exposes republican lies on immigration policies. s on immigration policies why choose proven quality sleep from the sleep number 360 smart bed? because it can gently raise your partner's head to help relieve snoring. ah. that's better. and can help you get almost 30 minutes more restful sleep per night. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is only $899. plus free home delivery when you add a base. ends monday. announcer: type 2 diabetes? discover the power of 3 in the ozempic® tri-zone.

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on monday, the dead bodies of 51 migrants were discovered in an abandoned tractor-trailer without air conditioning. they were found on the outskirts of san antonio where a worker heard a cry from in the truck. more than a dozen survivors were taken to the hospital, two later died. five children are among the dead. a mexican official confirmed that 27 of the victims were mexicans, 14 were hondurans and 7 guatemalans. officials are trying to determine the identities and national 'tis of the remaining victims. the united states, mexico, honduras announced they are working together. three people have been taken into custody. immigration experts say the mie grants were not brought over the border from mexico in the truck. they were brought in through a sophisticated operation. they suspect the migrants were loaded into the truck somewhere

in the united states. this has happened before in san antonio, 39 were found in similar conditions in 2017. ten died from heat exposure. joining me now is the founder and ceo of a media group and the host of a podcast. great to see you. let's talk about this. it's tragic. it feels like these are the kinds of tragedies that happen when you make migration so hard that people become so desperate that they are willing to climb into or put their children into the back of an unair conditioned truck. >> it's good to see you. listen, as i was thinking about this -- right now, what you are going to hear is it's the smuggler's fault this for decades. smugglers have been bringing people over in the entirety of the time i've been covering this. you didn't used to hear these

kinds of stories. these kinds of deaths. this is, in fact, a result of the police state that exists now along the u.s./mexico border in general. in texas, people don't realize you can't kind of just get in a car and there are checkpoints. and this is what people will resort to. it is horrible. it is just an absolute horrible, horrible death. and it feels even more difficult in a moment where our country is just -- everybody is reeling. and it's like, this is part of our country to. >> yeah. particularly in texas, it had more than its fair share of death and horror. but is now a multi country tragedy. people from multiple countries died in the back of that truck. the governor of texas is trying to, of course, use it for political fodder, blaming president biden. but the reality is, we still have the remain-in-mexico policies of donald trump. the supreme court is right now litigating whether or not the biden administration has to

continue to operate based on trump's rules, which they are currently doing. if the president of the united states can't change the rules by which migration is sort of policed at the border, what can we do? >> right. the whole remain-in-mexico policy -- it was created by the trump administration. so, you are right, the problem is that the biden administration has not been able to rescind it and now may be forced because of this very strange supreme court that we have in power in the united states of america -- joy, what can i tell you? i was recently on the arizona mexico border. and what you see is, the remain-in-mexico policy is -- it's created havoc, because instead of a situation in which there was some kind of order, processing of people, we're turning them to places, cities where there were some kind of support for them, the remain in mexico is basically, oh, we see

you, we just take you and for you across the border wherever you are -- so, that means that you are taking people and forcing them into a much more vulnerable situation. ing them into a mwe've been reporting ab, joy. how much more can we say? that the people who died, for example, these people, the 53 people died -- they were the people that still had trains about this country joy. they were the people that still think about the capacity of this country to deliver on these dreams. and yet they are dying because of heat and because of trying to get away from the border patrol. >> yeah. and indifference. we are in a situation right now where it is laughably impossible to even think about passing immigration reform. even just a straight dhaka bill would never go through the senate. it would filibuster. they would never be enough republicans for it, because they've decided to make immigrants the enemy as part of their campaign platform. you don't have enough democrats willing to mess with the filibuster. you have got to who basically decide side with republicans.

so, i don't know we how we give hope to communities when everything feels paralyzed in terms of power, to change it. >> look, you know that this is the long haul, right? here is a piece of data that people need to know. the latino and latina voting cohort -- we don't vote as a block -- we have the second largest voting cohort in the united states of america and the median age of latinos and latinas is 11 years old. this will not be forever. this kind of very specifically anti latino anti-black immigrant and refugee targeting, the kinds of things that we are now ashamed of that this government did during the height of the nazi era, that will ultimately go away, joy. this is not sustainable. and latinos and latinos ultimately will in fact -- in fact, as we have -- turn out to the polls more consistently. the issue is the democratic party. and what they do. and at this point, as you know, joy, i'm like, listen president biden, do something, even performative. we will take it. but the lack of action, it's

going to come back to bite you and frankly, now we know that bites all of us. >> yeah. absolutely. because we are all intertwined and we surely know that now in this era, maria hinojosa, my friend, it is so good to see you, even under the circumstances. and still ahead, the supreme court blocked the creation of a majority black congressional district in louisiana. because, of course, diluting the voting power of black people, surprise. we are back after this. of blac people, surprise we are back after this

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past several weeks, have felt like one long, never ending nightmare that just keeps getting worse. yesterday, the supreme court used its favorite tactic, the shadow docket, to decide that louisianans would not be allowed to have two majority black districts in the state. the conservative justices put on hold a lower court ruling that said the state had to draw new congressional districts. because the math that the republican legislature drew and will now use was racially gerrymandered. a third of louisiana -- 33% -- is african american. and despite that, they will not get proportional representation. this fall, the state now will ensure five majority white districts out of six. even more disturbing -- and this is really, pretty upsetting -- is that this is yet another signal that the conservative majority on the supreme court seems eager and ready to

invalidate the someone's civil rights era voting rights act, for the same reason that they overturned a woman's right to choose. simply because they can. that is tonight's reidout, all in with chris hayes starts now. is tonight's reidout, all in >> tonight on all in -- the 45th president actually participated in a violent coup to overthrow democracy. >> the president said something to the effect of, i am the effing president. take me up to the capitol now. >> tonight, the stunning reality of donald trump's role in january six and the committee's new subpoena for his white house counsel with congressman adam schiff. then -- >> i've decided that i should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works. >> get a great effing criminal defense lawyer, you are going to need it. >> we are going to get charged with every crime imaginable -- >> asha rangappa and chuck rosenberg on the consciousne