good day. i am live at msnbc headquarters in new york city . we start with the january 6th investigation and growing questions about the influence that donald trump world is trying to exert behind the scenes as reported efforts to block the committee from getting to the truth. that includes new evidence that cassidy hutchinson was reportedly the target of messages seemingly designed to influence her testimony. according to cnn, based on three sources, nbc news has not confirmed the reporting and not clear to actually sent me messages. at least one member of the committee has said that is evidence of witness tampering and the justice department should act on it. liz cheney told abc that the committee is considering a criminal referral to the doj to do just that. none of this may be news in

donald trump's orbit as the washington post is evidence states that a similar pattern, donald trump and his allies privately shower potential witnesses with flattery and attention, extending big assurances that staying loyal to donald trump would be better than crossing him, eight sentiment echoed by his former attorney, michael cohen. he says he received this behavior before he flipped on his former boss. >> it is a mob style scenario where you want to make sure these people stay in orbit. if you step out of the orbit, understand there are people that are going to potentially do some pretty bad things to you. you put yourself into that spot. a lot of these actions that came at me, i am sorry to say, i am sure she will experience the same. he wants it that way.

>> i want to bring in ally on capitol hill. a national security analyst, and tim miller is a political analyst and writer at large, the author of the brand-new book, "why we did it, a travelogue from the republican road to hell." frank, i want to start with you and remind people of the messages that congresswoman liz cheney read at the end of the hearing on tuesday that says she will relate to witnesses, it says that, as long as you stay on the team and do the right thing, you will stay in good graces in trump world. and he wants me to let you know he is thinking about you, he knows you are loyal and you will do the right thing. we are not sure who he is in the second message but bottom line, frank, what do you take

away, if true, could this be witness tampering or no? >> there is little doubt. this is law school, first-year 101 criminal procedure. at the very least, doj has enough to open a witness tampering investigation. we can talk about whether they would win or not, who did it or not, reasonable doubt or not, but there is no question in my mind that what you just read is an attempt to intimidate a witness. no question about it. when you add that to the fact that it appears that they provided her initial attorney to her, cassidy hutchinson , you have, without a doubt, predication to open a federal witness tampering investigation. >> it is friday and we're still digesting the testimony from tuesday that there is more to come. what about where the investigation is now and what is next? >> reporter: the suspicions that this message could have

come from the former boss of cassidy hutchinson , mark meadows, certainly raised the interest of the committee and in speaking with him again, he is willing to face criminal charges for not complying with the subpoenas. but we are hearing from a spokesperson for mac mark meadows who says "no one from his camp, himself, or otherwise, has attempted to intimidate or shape the testimony of cassidy hutchinson to the committee ." no committee members are talking about this. they are talking about whether the messages have coerced or influenced any of the witnesses we have heard. liz cheney mentioned two witnesses who received messages like this whether witnesses who they are still trying to speak with, whether they have been influenced in any way by these messages. while we are waiting for these

couple of next hearings in the nd we of july, we know they are trying to get a former white house counsel to testify on the record after subpoenaing him. there is a tug-of-war between clarence thomas's wife and her lawyer, as well as congressman mo brooks, a house gop congressman accused of requesting a presidential pardon from president trump after january 6th. the committee wants to speak with them. it may be a quiet week on the hill but not for committee members working remotely. >> you wrote a book that goes into this idea of why people embrace the former president. why does this tactic, staying in donald trump's good graces, still carry so much weight after he left office a year and a half ago? >> two things, there is a compulsion among political

operatives, the people in politics in washington to want to continue to be in the mix, be in the club, invited to mar- a-lago. that seems silly but it is a reality. when you show the bravery that cassidy hutchinson did , to step forward this week. i am so impressed that she broke three, you are immediately shunned. she is getting physical threats, threats of sexual violence, she will not be invited to any parties from her old colleagues and friends. her career, in my view, she will be fine. she does not know what her next step will be. there is uncertainty. it is because of what she is experiencing now that all of these cowards are not acting. they want to be in the mix and be secure in their career. they want to have another chance if donald trump runs

again, which is possible. all of these things are preventing them from showing the current that cassidy hutchinson did . i want to bring in a former fbi special agent, lawyer, and a lecturer at yale university. there is a pattern in this behavior across multiple investigations that involve donald trump and his allies. as michael cohen has pointed out, they are never cut and dry. he never says, say this or you are in trouble, how hard is it to charge them in a crime? >> donald trump, in particular, is a master at this. i worry that, with him, he famously does not use email. i do not think he texts. there is never a paper trail and we are reliant on people talking about the conversations with him. and revealing what he said. as you noted, the structure of

complicity around him is incredibly strong. he wants loyalty. we saw this as far as james comey. or, as her previous guest just noted, you are kicked out of the club and you pay a tremendous price. there are not as many other means of getting to what he has done besides his own words. >> frank, we learned that donald trump's political allies are paying for lawyers for january 6 witnesses. that includes a person getting paid by donald trump groups while representing cassidy hutchinson . they say he was telling her not to testify publicly. she fired him and hired the lawyer she has now. what should the public make of this? is it unusual and does the law say anything about this?

>> it is not unusual to have a third party pay for your legal services, it happens every day across the country, family members help out people in trouble. even at the major fortune 100 corporate levels, companies will pay for employees to have an attorney. because the attorney is under scrutiny with regard to something they did with their employment. the mob analogy carried on, the lawyer knows where the paycheck is coming from and even on a subconscious level, the knowledge of who is paying could impact how they represent your individual interest, even at the corporate level. when a company says to you, we will help out with an attorney for you, because we are all under investigation, they have to tell you and give you a letter that says, understand that this attorney is our attorney and not your attorney, we are helping you out but he really needs to represent our interests. the same thing happens with the mama, they provide someone's --

the allegiance is not usually with the client. >> there is ongoing investigations on many levels, any insight on why you think, why hasn't the department of justice acted to bring more people to justice who were in charge on january 6, why is that? >> i think because there is a misalignment between the evidence we are hearing in public which is coming out of a congressional committee, and the fact that the doj is approaching this from a different avenue. they are moving from the bottom up. they are prosecuting the foot soldiers moving up to the proud boys and oath keepers which they have done and now they are zeroing in on jeffrey clark. it will take more time. i think that the doj will be

slower than congress which does not have to deal with many of the admissibility, witness credibility, all these evidentiary concerns, impeaching a witness, adversarial cross-examination, in the same way that prosecutors do. >> when we talk about the impact of this. republican donors were interviewed and the consensus is they are moving away from trump and looking at other republican candidates. do you buy that and how much does that matter? >> i do buy it, it sounds familiar as these same republican donors were funding one of my groups in 2016 when we were running republicans against trump to stop trump. when he won the nomination, those donors supported donald trump. which i found rather odd. they want access and power and they see is trump is erratic

and they know he lost, they do not believe the big lie. they would rather move on to ron desantis or mike pence. when the rubber hits the road and donald trump decides to run again, will they really throw money against him and risked his ire? would they oppose him in a general election? i am skeptical. i am encouraged and hope somebody defeats him in the primary. i do not think there should be awards for courage for them at this point. >> great conversation to start us off this afternoon. thank you all. tim, you are sticking with us for another conversation. we are watching the white house as joe biden will meet virtually with a group of governors to talk about what states can do after the supreme court abortion ruling. we will go there live once it

starts. legislation called the don't say gay law, one school district is already required to do something. do something

president biden is meeting with governors to talk about the future of abortion. he just started speaking moments ago. >> a terrible decision in my view, impacting the health and safety of millions of women. i share the public outrage of this extremist court and that is committed to moving america backward with fewer rights, less autonomy, and pulse -- as i have said, this is not over. last week, i announced two specific actions. the first, if extremist

governors try to block a woman traveling from her state to prohibit her from seeking medical help to a state that provides the care, the federal government will act to protect her bedrock rights through the office of the attorney general. second, if states try to block a woman from getting medication the fda has already approved and has been available for more than 20 years, my administration will protect the woman's rights to the medication. there are many other unlawful actions that states are preparing to take that will we -- we will have to address, but congress will have to act to codify roe v. wade into federal law . but the filibuster should not stand in the way of us being able to do that. right now, we don't have the votes in the senate to change the filibuster at the moment. that means we need two more votes now, not now, when we vote, probably after november,

more senators and house majority, and the house majority elected in november to get the bill to my desk. the choice is clear, we either elect federal senators and representatives who will codify roe v. wade, republicans who will elect the house and senate who will try to ban abortions nationwide. this will go one way or the other after november. remember, the reasoning of this decision has an impact much beyond roe . the right to privacy, more generally. justice thomas said that. under the reasoning of this decision that the court should reconsider marriage equality and contraception. there is a lot at stake. in the meantime i want to hear what the governors are doing and talk about my plans and discuss what we can do until congress acts. this is not over. i will turn it over to the head

of the white house and gender policy counsel and we will proceed with discussions. >> thank you, mr. president. i would like to add my thanks to each of you for joining andrew leadership. as the president said, we would like to hear from you about what you have done and further actions you are planning to take. we will start with you, governor of new york, governor hochul. >> this is a frightening time for women across our nation with a lot of fear and anxiety. i hear it from women all across the state, they come to me in subway stops and farmers markets, young women who never had to think about this right are sobbing and putting her arms around my neck. there is such stress. in the state of new york, this was one day after the supreme

court told us we did not have the right to protect our citizens from people carrying concealed weapons in places like subways and times square. i can be a session, i brought them back about 2:00 a.m. this morning, while we were working on the gun legislation, i changed my proclamation to say we also include to give further protections for women in the state, the equality agenda which will prohibit discrimination on the basis of pregnancy and pregnancy outcomes, and recruit -- reproductive health care autonomy. we are one step closer, i think it will be passed by both houses, to enshrine abortion rights in our state constitution. as long as i am governor, these rights will not be rolled back. we will serve as a destination for women looking to a place like new york and other states as a safe harbor. even before the supreme court

decision, i had to beef up our opportunities for women to come from other states. we allocated $35 million right off the bat to go to providers to hire more people and expand space to make sure they could keep their staff safe from violence. we mandated all insurance companies, doing business in new york, have to cover abortions. i signed six bills related to protecting our providers after the decision came down. we will stop the extradition of any -- that is not happening in new york. we are defending our abortion provider from malpractice and other lawsuits. we launched a public awareness campaign because there is a lot of misinformation that women in new york are seeing the national news and do not know they are protected in new york. we will be leaders in this

fight to protect providers from vigilante justice which has been unleashed by the states that will allow these private rights and actions, where they will hunt down women and providers. this is chaos, it is frightening, but we are doing what we can to make sure we are protected. what is happening now, the rights of millions of women's across the country are falling on the shoulders of a handful of states. a handful of states will have to take their of the healthcare of women from other states. we believe, as you do, mr. president, to new yorkers and other enlightened states, to help all americans and no one should have to travel. that is why, congress must act. we sent a letter way back to congress saying please pass the women's health protection act and let's get this to the senate. at the state level, what we are doing is key, but i commend

you, mr. president, for standing up and talking about the fact that it is the filibuster that is preventing the majority of senators, and the majority of senators who want to speak on behalf of the majority of americans. we understand our options are limited until next january with a new senate, and we will be focusing hard on that outcome because it is a matter of life and death for american women because we don't want to go back to the days anywhere in this country of the back alley abortions which are real, i spoke to a neighbor down the hall whose husband used to perform abortions before it was legal in new york state in 1970. this is not just hyperbole, it is real. what we are asking for at the federal level, we believe that more can be done to find family- planning services more broadly to allow the providers and clinics to have federal resources for these services and they can focus on private dollars for abortion services.

i am grateful you are putting an emphasis on what will happen for women to continue to receive abortion services by mail. this will be a battle that people would not have foreseen with no unlawful interference and we have to do that to ease public concern. also, mr. president, we ask you to consider your ability to use federal facilities. veterans hospitals, military bases, and other places where the federal government controls the jurisdiction in some of the states that are hostile to the rights of women and make sure that those services can be available to other women. those are a few of the ideas we encourage you to look at. before close of business today, we will have the first step toward a process of changing our constitution, the bold step we can take and we just started out today. thank you for convening us, we are there to stand with you to do something and protect our

rights of my mother's generation, that they had to fight for, i fought for, my daughter, in her 30s, fight for, and i have a brand-new granddaughter, thank you for your note. i did not think i would have to fight this battle for her generation but we are ready to take on that fight. >> i did not think we would either, i was worried we would. a lot of the folks do not understand what this decision means. it means, if you have an 11- year-old child who was a victim of incest and finds herself pregnant, which occurs, she cannot get choice, her health cannot be protected. you find, if you are raped, no exception, so many things people have not focused on. i just think that, as you pointed out, it will be a big

deal if we get people out to vote. i hear it will happen i predict. if we don't, if we don't keep the senate, increase it in the house, we will be in a situation where the republicans will pass a nationwide prohibition consistent with what the supreme court ruled. there is a lot at stake. i am glad you are leading in new york. >> thank you, mr. president. >> thank you, governor. >> president biden is meeting with a group of democratic governors talking about abortion rights and reproductive rights at the state level. i want to bring in josh who was at the white house. i want to bring in robert gibbs, former white house press secretary and an msnbc political analyst. and lauren. josh, the president

acknowledging this is a state issue right now. what are the states the white house can take in working with these governors? >> reporter: the biggest acts in the federal government can take are the ones the white house announced within hours of the decision, to try to preserve the ability of women to cross state lines and seek abortions in other states and work with the health agencies to make sure there is wide access to the abortion medication. the white house sees the next battleground on this issue as the states which is the whole purpose of what president biden is doing today, allowing the press to watch some of this meeting with democratic governors in states that are trying to protect the ability of women to get abortions. the bigger problem is the states that are not doing that, that, according to the white house, is where they need to see more actions and voters to make clear that their state and local leaders that they want to see the abortion rights codified into law. the president gave the most

frank outline of what the plan is going forward as the white house continues to say, this is a job that congress needs to take up because we know that the president came out at the end of his foreign trip in support of a filibuster exception for codifying roe v. wade into law . the president saying that democrats do not have the votes to do that because of joe manchin and sinema, to stand firm in their opposition to a filibuster carveout. but president biden said, what we need to do is elect two more democratic senators, two democratic pickups in the senate midterm elections which, if that happened, brings the democrats to 52 which means they can still lose joe manchin and kyrsten sinema and still carveout the filibuster exception and pass something.

the president putting democrats on notice that he would go around the objections of senators joe manchin and kyrsten sinema if it means they can get federal legislation on roe v. wade which is a big if because democrats would have to pick up two seats in midterm elections which many democrats are bracing for democrats to have a difficult time . >> and they have to keep the house majority. robert, this is a generational earthquake in terms of u.s. policy. do you think the white house is matching the seismic stakes of this moment? >> i think that is a great question that today's event will have to go a long way towards demonstrating the commitment that this white house has. a lot of women around this country, and a lot of democrats, want to know that this white house is ready to meet the moment that the political establishment in washington is ready to meet this scary moment. i think it is important that the president is reemphasizing

the steps that they have announced around travel and medication. it was just talk about, what democrats need to do is deal with two things, one, there is a passion in the white house for making this happen. secondly, the idea of electing two more democrats is not just a talking point for right now but becomes a rallying cry to a larger campaign message in the fall. this is not something the president will have to do once on a friday, this is something the entire democratic establishment will have to talk about repeatedly and loudly if this will really bleed in. >> is this a big enough issue to get voters to the polls? lauren, your organization is out with interesting numbers showing how women view boating after roe v. wade was overturned, a 6% jump in all women compared to september . when you look at all voters, it is just a percentage point jump

but if you break it down by party, a 14 percentage point jump in democratic women but only moving the dial a few percentage points among independents. is that enough to narrow the margin of my democrats in november especially with the headwinds they were already facing? and what more are you hearing from female voters about this? >> the data point you didn't include is, among young women 18 to 29, a 26 point jump from september in terms of their commitment and motivation to vote in september. excuse me, in november. that is incredible and powerful. the press engagement going into the midterm elections from democrats which has been particularly true of younger voters. the roe v. wade issue is a galvanizing issue. for democrats to win in the midterm, it requires a critical coalition of women, especially

younger women, suburban women, independent women, those are the voters that turned th majorityin 2018, and the white house in 2020. if they do not turn out and are not galvanized, it is incredibly difficult for democrats to overcome the republican enthusiasm advantage. we see this as a significant change, this is a mobilizing issue and has the potential to create tectonic shifts in the landscape of the midterm election. >> robert, what do you think are the points the democrats should hammer home going into the midterm elections and what is your reaction when you see the numbers? does that tell you this is a big enough issue to motivate voters? >> i do think it is a big enough issue. those numbers demonstrate it. focus groups i have heard about over the past week demonstrate it. i think we all think that a lot

of these races will come down to being pretty close races. we are not talking about needing 10 point gaps to win these races, some will be one point and two point races. even the types of changes that we are beginning to see and feel in some of the data will be important. in many ways, sophisticated campaigns will take all of what has happened in the supreme court in the past 10 days and all of what has been happening in washington and put that together. if you think about it, in the last week, the governor of new york said it, the idea that there is reasonable safety legislation in this country will be hard to prosecute because the supreme court. we know what they have done on roe v. wade . despite the fact that 80% of the country wants to see more stringent application on powerplant emissions, the supreme court did away with that. what you are beginning to see in washington from conservatives is something that

is extreme and out of step with the concerns and cares that people have in this country. the larger narrative will have to be put together and prosecuted in this campaign. it will not just be one issue here and one issue there, it will be the amalgamation of issues into a larger narrative about extremism that can move the needle in november. >> lauren, quickly, a republican governor of virginia, he said he would sign a 15 or 20 week abortion ban. could republican governors be overestimating this issue among voters? >> what we see during the summer, extreme legislation, i really think we will see increasing shifts. when pro-life voters have difficulty accessing basic birth control because of this ruling, i think many voters will see this as a bridge too

far. even those who agree on principle and moral ground on abortion. that will be the problem republicans. this extremism. the fact that these rulings are out of step with what the majority of americans want is highly galvanizing and an existential threat which is motivated democrats to come out against the republican agenda and trump in 2018 and could motivate them again in substantial ways. in individual races, if they see a threat on an existential level, they turn out. >> josh, robert, lauren, thank you for joining us on this friday, we appreciate it. some states are the -- suspending the gas tax, illinois having an idea to save people money at the grocery store. that is next. is next i like that tune. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk better than warfarin.

and has less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis has both. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking, you may bruise more easily... or take longer for bleeding to stop. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. the #1 cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor about eliquis. your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some...rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack.

rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save on rivnoq. ♪ ♪ is this where your grandparents cut a rug with a jitterbug? or return from war, dreaming of the possibilities ahead. where your dad waited for his dad to come home from the factory. is this where they gathered on their front steps with fats domino on the breeze? ancestry can guide you to family discoveries in the 1950 census.

see what you can uncover at ancestry. i was injured in a car crash. in the 1950 census. i had no idea how much my case was worth. i called the barnes firm. when a truck hit my son, i had so many questions about his case. i called the barnes firm. it was the best call i could've made. your case is often worth more than insuran call the barnes firm to find out i could've made. what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys ♪ call one eight hundred,est resul eight million ♪

i'm mark and i live in vero beach, florida. ♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys my wife and i have three children. ruthann and i like to hike. we eat healthy. we exercise. i noticed i wasn't as sharp as i used to be. my wife introduced me to prevagen and so i said "yeah, i'll try it out." i noticed that i felt sharper, i felt like i was able to respond to things quicker. and i thought, yeah, it works for me. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. nearly 50 million americans are hitting the road and the sky to take off the fourth of july weekend. if you are flying, airlines or warnings about big delays, much like we saw over the last two

holiday weekends. on the roads, the national average has dropped slightly, but gas prices are still around historic highs. if you want to keep the party at home, hosting a barbecue will cost you with traditional food prices up 11% this year. joining me is a reporter at a grocery store to stock up on food for the holiday weekend and maybe to help with inflation, the state of illinois is suspending its 1% grocery tax, which means the average customer will only save one dollar on a $100 grocery bill this weekend. you are talking to shoppers, are they happy or is it too small to notice? >> reporter: 1% is 1%, some noticing that we have mixed reviews. this is a $60 bill, we went shopping for staples for the fourth of july, we saved about $.60 on our total.

knowing how high food prices are, we wanted to know from shopper, does a 1% reduction register on your radar? here is what they said. >> it is a nice gesture but it will not make that much of a difference. it did not make much of a difference in my bill today. >> we appreciate all the help we can get. >> eventually it will work but it will go right back up. >> reporter: people told us getting any relief is welcomed and they will not turn it down, but 1% is 1%. the state of illinois also waving the inflation adjustment height on the gas tax, it sounds like a great headline that boils down to about 2.2 cents per gallon. gas hurting families in illinois and across america. >> you are getting ready to host a parking lot barbecue in

chicago. the trial for britney greiner has started in moscow as she appeared in court in handcuffs. this is video of her leaving the courtroom after her appearance, charged with drug smuggling for allegedly trying to leave the country with cannabis canisters in her luggage and faces up to 10 years in prison as the u.s. data permit so she is being wrongfully detained by the russian government with an official classification means the special presidential for envoy for hostage affairs is working to secure her release and the next hearing for her is july 7th. coming up, alerting parents if a student is open about their gender identity, flagging books that even mention sexual orientation, these are some of the policies being rolled out in florida with the don't say gay law officially taking effect today, what it means for parents and teachers in the state coming up next. up next

the so-called don't say gay law signed by florida governor ron desantis is in effect as of today and it is already changing the way some teachers do their jobs. >> i absolutely feel that we are moving backwards with regard to civil rights. and social justice. it is frightening to be a teacher in florida. >> representatives of the orange county classroom teachers association say, before today, school officials have been verbally warning educators not to wear rainbow articles of clothing. another scoreboard approved it lgbtq inclusive school guide and one provision is alerting parents if a student, who is open about their gender identity, is in their child's gym class or an overnight school trip. we have more from florida.

>> reporter: one of the most polarizing pieces of legislation in florida in recent memory takes effect today as many schools across the state are trying to figure out how it affected them. the state of florida says instruction will definitely be limited from kindergarten to third renters like the elementary school behind me when it comes to topics regarding sexual orientation and gender identity while the state admits they have no blueprint for how to address this material and content when it comes to older children. it will take one year to figure that out but it is a factor driving uncertainty and fear around this law which critics call don't say gay . a lawsuit against the state of florida, florida responded with a motion and try to dispel misconceptions about what the law does and does not do. they say it restricts instruction on the subject matters but does not, according to the state, is preventing students -- teachers who are from talking about their spouses or children or answering questions from students about their families. all of that right now does appear to be open to

interpretation as we hear different stories from different schools with upper war in the state of florida as protest had broken out at schools all over the state in the months after the governor signed this into law in march. there has been a high-profile feud with in florida. that legal battle continues. i spoke with a teacher in broward county, she told me she is gay and has lived for 34 years watching the evolution of civil rights. when she was a student here, people couldn't talk about their sexual orientation. it feels like so much progress has been made and yet now civil rights, she says, is moving backwards. there are six other states that have passed similar laws in the last couple of years. in pembroke pines, sam brock, nbc news. back with more reaction is msnbc political analyst tim miller. his new book is "why we did it: a travelogue from the republican road to hell." tim, you're part of the lgbtq

community, you're married with a family, and you worked for former florida republican governor jeb bush. tell us understand from your perspective, what are the politics in play here? >> the politics in play is that ron desantis and the right wing governors, the other ones that have put this into place, have seen an opportunity. it is not any different from anti-gay bigotry that goes all the way back to the briggs initiative in california in the '70s, this notion that i'm okay with gay people but i don't want them to be exposed to kids, as ron desantis' spokesperson said, they might be groomers. some of the concerns of parents are in good faith. others are based in bigotry. what is happening here is that politicians are now taking advantage of those concerns about the changing, you know,

kind of language and discussion and increasing exclusivity of families like mine, of people that have -- you know, that are gender nonbinary, different types of gender expression. they're using that change for short term political advantage. these bills are going to be extremely harmful, particularly to kids in red districts, because to that last report, here's the key thing. it was written so vague, it's such a poorly written bill, it will be interpreted different, school district to school district. if you have a hard line antigay principal or superintendent in a certain school or you have a very loud parent-teacher association that's very anti-gay on the parent side of it, then the schools are going to be much more harsh in how they interpret the law. >> keeping in mind that one of the issues here is school districts are worried about being sued by parents who may have an issue with the lgbtq community and it may not take much for those lawsuits to be filed and school districts may not want to spend a lot of money

to depend them. there's been a lot of chatter of ron desantis running for president in 2024. is what we're seeing in florida the blueprint for this party's future right now with laws like this? >> look, there's ron desantis imitations everywhere. greg abbott in texas is jealous of ron desantis and he's trying to do things like this. yes, this gets you positive coverage on the ben shapiro show and right wing media, it's in this ethos that they're taking down the cultural left a peg, taking down gays and lesbians. the lawsuit is tied to the lawsuit bounties in texas. that's how they're enforcing these laws, through the courts. if you're a lawyer representing a school district, you may not be anti-gay but you might not want to have to deal with getting sued so you might be giving advice to teachers, you can't do certain types of

projects. this is what my daughter brought home for school for valentine's day. they asked each kid to make a valentine. is that instruction? that seems like instruction to me, if you're telling a kid to make a valentine for your family, if it's a gay family or lgbtq family of any kind. if you have one parent of another kid in that class who is uncomfortable with that, they could sue the teacher. so you could see a lawyer reasonably, just because of the nature of the law, saying that you can't do this in that classroom. and they're not saying that because they're bigoted. they're saying that because we need to be safe, we don't want the school to get sued, we don't want to lose money. that's the negative impact of this on kids who come from nontraditional families. >> those are some of the key questions that are going to play out over the next several weeks and months. tim miller, your daughter is a very talented artist, thank you for sharing that with us, appreciate it. >> thank you.

>> have a great holiday weekend. >> you too. i want you to listen to these words. involuntary relocation. what could a student think if they heard that? the texas tribune reports that earlier this month a group of texas educators proposed to the texas state board of education that slavery should be taught as involuntary relocation during second grade social studies instructions. board members have asked them to reconsider that phrasing according to the state board's chair. why is this happening? the board needs to make curriculum changes this summer after texas passed a law last year eliminating topics that make students feel, quote, discomfort. the board will have a final vote on the curriculum in november. that does it for us this hour. catch me and my co-host savannah sellers on "morning news now," streaming on nbc news now. tune in to "chris jansing reports" every weekday at 1:00

eastern right here on msnbc. yasmin vossoughian picks up our coverage, next.

good to be with you,

everybody, i'm yasmin vossoughian in for katy tur. today, new legal and ethical questions about whether former president trump's political organization and his allies are trying to influence witnesses talking to the house january 6th committee. "the new york times" reporting the trump save america political action committee as well as the people who run cpac are covering legal costs for more than a dozen witnesses according to financial disclosures. we have one of the reporters who broke that story, straight ahead. you don't want to miss that conversation. and those developments of course after committee vice chair liz cheney revealed that at least two witnesses were contacted by people connected to the former president attempting to influence and/or intimidate them. three sources familiar with the committee's work telling cnn one of the people contacted was in fact, you see her right there, cassidy hutchinson, the former top aide torump chief of staff mark meadows who testified, i'm sure many of you remember, on