katie phang show. i will be back tomorrow morning at 7 am eastern. ali velshi is next. >> today's witness miss cassadee hutchinson is another former member of president trump's white house staff. >> as an american, i was disgusted. we are watching the capitol building get defaced over a lie. >> i heard the president say something to the effect of why can't they have weapons, they are not here to hurt -- >> what happened in the presidents vehicle? >> the president said something to the effect of, i am the -- president, take me up to the capital now. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards -- and how do we counter the story to me he motioned towards his clavicle's. >> because of this courageous woman, and others like her, you are attempt to hide the truth from the american people will fail. >> today we heard more rumors,

a ton of hearsay -- >> it seemed like an audition tape that wasn't going well for her. >> she is an extremely junior low level aid, i don't think i ever had a conversation with her. >> the woman is living in fantasy land. she is a social climber. some whack job can say the stuff and get away with it, i hardly knew her. >> good morning, a disorderly july the 2nd, i am ali velshi. welcome to a special hour of velshi where we will dive into a close look at the week from the january six committee, from the damning allegations leveled during a surprise deshaun featuring a white house staffer who was at times just feet away from the president on january 6th, to the flurry of activity set off by those allegations. a crucial conversation about what it means to be a whistleblower in donald trump's

republican party, with someone who has paid the price for telling the truth. but, we begin with a new, voice and who star witness with the most in the intimate details we have learned so far about what he felt former president was doing on the day that he set a violent mob on the capitol. cassidy hutchinson, the former top aide to ex white house chief of staff mark meadows is being both praised, and derided for her explosive public testimony this week. the 25-year-old described how the ex president was, desperate to join his supporters at the capitol, and became irate when his security team informed him that he could not go. because of safety concerns. she also recounted details of her conversation with mark meadows, which revealed that meadows was aware that january 6th could get dangerous, but did nothing to prevent that outcome. >> i found mr. meadows at his office on the couch, he was scrolling through his phone, leaning against the doorway and saying, is that an interesting

conversation mark? it sounds like we are going to go to the capitol. he did not look up for his, phone and said something to the effect of there is a lot going on casts, but i don't know, things might get real real battle on january 6th. >> that was just one of the explosive resident revelations from cassidy hutchinson this week. she also testified that she recalled hearing the terms, proud boys, and oath keepers when rudy giuliani was around the white house in the days leading up to january 6th. members of both of those groups have been charged with seditious conspiracy for their roles in the attack on the capitol. plus, hutchinson revealed evidence that trump advisers knew that the ex president could be exposed to a range of criminal charges, testifying that then white house counsel pat cipollone tried to edit donald trump's january 6th speech for legal reasons, but he was overruled. cipollone has since been subpoenaed by the committee, he is required to respond by next week. hutchinson also testified that

both rudy giuliani and her old boss mark meadows asked for pardons. both have denied doing that. but there is new reporting that sheds light on the kind of pressure that cassidy hutchinson was under to not testify, to not come forward, and to not be forthcoming. after hutchinson's testimony, the committee despite messages that they said might have been part of an effort to influence or possibly intimidate witnesses. they did not say who had sent or who had received the messages, but here is one of them. it says quote, a person, the name was redacted, a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know that he is thinking about you. he knows you are loyal, and you are going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. nbc is now reporting that according to knowledgeable sources, hutchinson herself was the recipient of that message. a source familiar with hutchinson's deposition

confirms to nbc news that the person referred to in that text was said to be thinking about johnson and encouraging her to be loyal and do the right thing. it was mark meadows, hutchinson's old boss. a spokesman for meadows denies this. but a new piece from the washington post chronicles the long and well documented history of the use of exactly this kind of intimidation behavior towards witnesses from trump world. the report reads, quote, the reports from multiple states of federal and -- investigations points to similar pattern. trump and his close allies privately showered witnesses were flattery and attention, extending vegas shown says that staying loyal to trump would be better than crossing him. in case anyone forgot, witness tampering is in fact illegal, which is why if the text messages hutchinson are proved to have been sent from any of the ex presidents coons, there could be far reaching implications.

let's kick things off with better which of someone, she is a political correspondent for politico and contributor msnbc, betsy, good morning to you, it has been quite a week. a lot of information to digest, but it is not just the testimony that we heard at the hearing on tuesday, it is everything that has come out of that. the efforts by trump world to discredit cassidy hutchinson, the confirmations from other places about the things that cassidy hutchinson told the committee. >> yeah, it has been an onslaught of news ever since this truly stunning congressional hearing played out on tuesday, zeroing in on this question of potential efforts to -- testimony i can tell you that both of the slides that the committee played at the end of its hearing -- recipients whose identities were not revealed, both of those slides were based on testimony that hutchinson provided in her very last

fourth closed-door deposition to the select committee. she had that deposition this month, and it contained a number of enough stunning information that the select committee decided they needed to move with unusual speed and have this with what is being referred to as an emergency hearing that they only gained 24 hours notice. one of the things in that opposition of course that the committee has now highlighted is, which's characterization of outreach from people within trump world as she was going through the process of cooperating with the january 6th select committee. of course, and we see confirmed that one slide that you put up with the name of a person isn't brackets, that person as mark meadows. a chance in that in the step position, told the select committee that the night before a second deposition a lot of the positions -- under the presidents allies, the night before her second deposition she had a

conversation with the person who is acting as an intermediary for meadows and that person passed along the message that was reflected on screen. this is quickly rocketed close to the top of the select committee's priority list because of course anytime there is even the appearance of an effort to shape the witnesses testimony that causes real concerns and real problems. so it is just another complex high stakes avenue of investigation that the committee clearly is going to be focusing on in the coming weeks and months. >> one of the stunning pieces of testimony among many was this conversation about what role donald trump played with a secret service about getting into the capital. you have written about the secret service this, week initially the secret service absolutely flatly denied what cassidy hutchinson said about what happened that day, but that seems to have evolved as well. >> my understanding is that the secret service including the secret services agency as well as --

and bobby engle, the two people who hutchison sided when describing her understanding of the events have yet to say anything on the record about what hutchinson has said. what hutchison and her lawyers, or what hutchinson's lawyer has said, she stands by testimony and anybody who wants to contradict it should do what she has done, raise the right, hand go under oath, and you know, take the same risk that she has. that in our understanding has yet to happen, however the timeline here is interesting. we do know the select committee has full access to the secret service, the agency made that clear a month or two ago when i spoke to them for a story about bobby engle. we also know that tony ornato and bobby engle both testified to the select committee earlier this year, my understanding, i'm not aware of them testifying at the effect of they are having been any sort of violence or lunging in the -- during that ride from the rally

back to the white house. i can also tell you that in the attendees before hutchinson's hearing, as the select committee scrambled to pull the hearing together, investigators on the committee did not follow up with the secret service to circle back and ask angle and ornado if they wanted to amplify or expand upon their prior testimony. the select committee is taking some heat for, this because our journalist it would have been a very basic step if someone tells you a story, before you present the story publicly you check with everybody who you, no follow-up, you figure out if it can be cooperated or not. the fact that select committee skipped that step as they were hurrying, is something that is creating a more fraught environment for hutchinson than she would have had to face if they had gone through that step, if they had known why all the participants were aware of, and if they had been ready to deal with it rather than watch the storytelling happen publicly in realtime after she had already gone under oath publicly.

>> we are so grateful for the attention you paid a new reporting about, this because this is a detailed story. but the woodruff swan, a national correspondent for politico and msnbc contributor. thank you for being with us this morning. joining me now is the democratic representative -- of the u.s. virgin islands, she was a house manager for the second impeachment trial of donald trump. you will recall that she laid out the very specific granular detail of what happened at the capitol, and i have to stay representative, i wondered in this investigation what more they could add to the detail that you had. but it certainly does put some flesh on the bones of what you narrated about what was happening on january six. they have all this information about how it started, who encouraged, it was going, on really enrich is the story. >> [inaudible] >> i think we have a technical problem with representative -- we will try to fix that very

quickly and come back to us soon as we do. let me talk to you about the january six committee and what they are doing, they continue to clearly lay out evidence of crimes that were committed by the insurrectionists former president and that is what we have been hearing this week. the question becomes, what happens next? initially the january six committee had said that israel was to find out what actually happened that day, and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. but that seems less than satisfactory to a lot of americans who are now seeing that quite possibly serious serious crimes or committed not just by the proud boys and the oath keepers and those people on the grounds of the capitol who were trying to get into the capitol and did get into the capital but in fact by possibly president donald trump and his cronies. will there be legal implications? will the justice department now take this material of the january six committee has been gathering and do something about it? we will have that discussion when we come back. we will also trying to get stacey plaskett back. you're watching a special

edition of velshi on the january 6th hearings. we will be right back. ight back. after having a kid, everything that you used to do for yourself goes out the window. the lines that i was seeing in my forehead were getting deeper than i was used to them being. and i realized, you know, what i can focus again on myself. so, what do you see when you look at yourself? i see someone who is growing and changing, who loves and is loved. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com

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to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. every search you make, every click you take, every move you make, every step you take, i'll be watching you. the internet doesn't have to be duckduckgo is a free all in one privacy app with a built in search engine, web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. >> congressman liz cheney is duckduckgo: privacy, simplified.

one of two republicans sitting on the january six committee, she is the vice chair of the committee and has been disowned by the republican party for her this loyalty to donald trump. now despite that pressure over the past 18 months the country has watched to put her constitution over party, putting truth over the big lie. and this week, while giving

remarks that an event at the reagan presidential library and separately during a primary debate for her wyoming congressional seat, she offered a stark warning for members of her party and made it clear that this very moment, republicans are at a crossroad. she has chosen the path of integrity. >> at this moment, we are confronting a domestic threat that we have never faced before. and that is a former president who is attempting to unravel the foundations of our constitutional republic. he has aided by republican leaders, and elected officials who made themselves willing hostages to this dangerous and irrational man. now some in my party are embracing former president trump, and even after all we have seen they are enabling his lies. many others are urging that we not to confront donald trump, that we look away, and that is certainly the easier path.

one need only look at the threats but -- january six committee to understand the magnitude of that threat. but you argue that the threat posed by donald trump can be ignored is to cast aside the responsibility that every citizen, every one of us bears to face the republic. we must not do that, and we cannot do that. it is undeniable, it is also painful for republicans to accept. i think we all have to recognize and understand -- those things happened. but the reality that we face today as republicans, as we think about the choice in front of us, we have to choose, because republicans cannot both be loyal to donald trump, and loyal to the constitution. >> i will never put party above

my to deter the country, i will never put party above my duty of the constitution. -- may the votes of people turned political support, that is where the voters of wyoming to serve, that is what the voters of wyoming demand, that is the kind of respect that we owe the corridors of this great state. if we do not abide by the constitution, when it is politically inconvenient we will not have the constitution as our shield when we need to defend our first and second amendment rights. i'm asking for you to vote, and i'm asking you to understand that i will never violate my oath of office, and if you are looking for somebody who will need to vote for somebody else on the stage, because i want. i will always put my oath first. >> back with, us a democratic representative stacey plaskett of the united states virgin islands. she was a house manager for the second impeachment of donald trump. representative, could have you, back thank you for being with us. i was saying to you before we lost you last time, i wouldn't have thought that there could be more detail that you offered

in your presentations during the second impeachment about what happened at the house, but it is kind of interesting to hear about all the background, and all the other things that were happening simultaneously. what does it make you think about? because i think you might have more detail about what happened that day than most people, because of the preparation you had for the second impeachment. >> sure, you know, it just really ties in so well and really provides so much more flesh to what we outlined in the impeachment. of course, you, know we were doing this a month after the insurrection itself. a month after the mob came to the capitol, and the select committee has had a tremendous opportunity, and it really utilized that to bring in so much more evidence. particularly, the people who are unwilling to talk to us that being the republicans who were there, who had spoken to the president, and who were in the white house at the time.

and so, one of the things that i always keep reminding myself of, the permit for this rally in itself. donald trump changed the permit, the individuals were supposed to remain -- during that rally, and he himself working with the organizers of the rally changed it so that they went to the capital. now it's knowing that he was aware, secret service was aware, everyone was aware of the weapons that they had, and the fact that he still wanted them to go to the capital really provides more in my mind intent on the president for this to be a violent insurrection -- for them to do whatever necessary to stop the counting of the votes. >> so in fact, because you had to do this a month after the insurrection you had details that you had miss on video and some testimony, things like that, but you did not have the ability at the time to connect what was going on on the

capitol grounds, and inside the capitol to what was going on in the white house and make those connections. so we know people had broken the law by breaching the capitol and doing the vile things they did there but it wasn't clear that these were not two different things. it was a cabal of people around the white house trying to throw overthrow the election and a group of people in front of the capitol who were storming it. is it clear to you know that those two things are more connected than some people would like to think that they are? >> i think that we have the tendency of the connection, but we didn't have the muscle and -- to show the connection as fully as they have in this hearings that we have now. i have to say, miss hutchinson's testimony really event gives more color to the outlines the black and white of what we had during the impeachment. >> you have worked with liz cheney, your colleague in the house, what do you think about how she is doing in this whole thing? there are a lot of people have

mixed feelings about liz cheney, they do not share her views on a lot of things except when push comes to shove, they seem to share her view on democracy and the constitution. >> sure, i think that she and of course betty thompson the chairman of the committee working with a tremendous staff. let's give of course so much support and accolades to the staff who have really done,i think the -- work in terms of putting this evidence together. they really kept it very measured, as we tried to during the impeachment. this is not trying to be hair on fire but really just being very methodical about the evidence and i'm grateful that the heaviest us primary evidence and witnesses the republicans themselves who were involved in this other individuals at the justice department and now miss hutchinson. i have to say that i worked in the bush administration, work at the justice department

during thatime under attorney general ashcroft, and to see hutchinson's attorney sitting behind her, built jordan who had been at the justice department during that time, also to me lend credibility to what she was doing. having switched the attorneys that she had. she was looking for someone who's going to be, you know, who's a republican insider, but somebody who is about the truth. somebody who's willing and interested in his clients defending our democracy. >> representative stacey plaskett go to, see thank you for being here with us. stacey plaskett representative of the united states u.s. virgin islands. -- a major question remains, will the department of justice act against ex president donald trump. we have some clues coming up next. coming up next only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.

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far. it seemed like an open letter to the justice department. cassidy hutchison delivered perhaps the most damning evidence of wrongdoing by donald trump and some of his closest allies. during the two hours of questioning, mismatches son aimed to the white house chief of staff mark meadows with a narrative that had yet to occur. trump's own actions on january six. i won't, point how justin described the white house attorney warning her about letting trump march to the mob with the capitol. quote, we will be charged with every crime imaginable. the house committee has formally subpoenaed mr. cipollone to testify. he has until wednesday to submit a response to the committee. even trump's former attorney general things the doj actually is his former boss could be imminent. shortly after tuesday's hearing, barr told the new york times that the department is clearly looking into all of this. this hearing gave investigators a lot to chew on. the question remains, will

these increasingly incriminating carries to mince the department justice to pursue criminal charges against his ex president and allies. joining me now -- is a former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor. joyce, good morning, thank you for being with, us we constantly have these conversations about what role the findings of the january six committee have and the possibility of charges in pursuit of the charges by the department of justice. tom lawyers like me, it's obvious that they are doing the digging, and the department justice can take this and lay charges as they see fit. is that the way to look at this. ? >> i think increasingly the committee has done a brilliant job at making these hearings impossible to ignore. if you're sitting over the main justice filling watching them, which the attorney general has told us they are doing. this evidence is being unearthed, and the committee is really appealing to the jury of

public opinion. jays drove is a little bit more difficult, they have to pay attention to a rules of evidence, and think about what evidence would be admissible. a lot of jackson's testimony was hearsay. she was talking about things that she heard other people say. doj would have to follow up on her testimony, go back to those people and interviewed them and see if they will repeat their testimony and she is a fabulous roadmap to where doj's criminal investigation, if they're in fact is, one should go next. >> you have answered the question i was going to ask. there if the testimony itself usable by the doj or is it a roadmap. do they have to repeat that work knowing where the pot of gold is. >> i specialize at half answers on these difficult questions. this is a difficult one in a couple of ways. if you are doj, i suspect most of this work is being done in the u.s. attorney's office in

the district of columbia. these are battle hardened prosecutors who are used to seeing their witnesses get clobbered on cross-examination. it's part of how you live as the prosecutor. you don't just live as the good stuff this time -- you have to think about how the defense lawyer is examining them. oftentimes, in criminal cases, be defense lawyers know a lot more about your witnesses in what they have done then you do frankly. your client has lived through it in your witness. doj will have this task before they decide which witnesses they can put on and whether their evidence is sufficient and witnesses and having would prosecutors sometimes call a come to jesus meeting. saying, i don't want to hear stories about you when you are on the witness stand. you need to tell me before you make a decision to indict on this case. everything that i need to know about your conduct that could be used against you. there is a real dance that goes on here and developing

witnesses. >> one of the things that we always know with whistleblowers and particular, from witnesses who tested by someone they know, is the effort to discredit them. it is fully underway now with cassidy hutchinson. particularly by right-wing media. starts very simply. she wasn't really in the room, she doesn't know if she is talking about, that is the kind of stuff we have heard. that's the stuff we have heard from trump world and media organizations. that comment, every time we have a witness against somebody who is important, the first thing that they say, this is very common for donald trump to say, they were not in on it. they did not know what they are talking about. y were not in on it. >> sure, every moss says that your key witness against them is just the coffee girl. originally the coffee boy. i was reflecting on this this morning. we watched him say that i hardly knew that person.

and you might scratch your head in wonder, that we are six years in on this. we have done it every time someone comes forward with the truth about his behavior and a number of different sorts of venues. it becomes less and less convincing. ultimately, the vigor with which they have gone after her suggest that they are very concerned about her testimony. >> july 2nd of 2022, having to say coffee, it is relevant. it's the perfect place to have to say it. joyce vance is a former united states attorney at msnbc, contributor and columnist. if you are just playing catch-up, the failed former president has quite the temper, especially was only 20 general tells him there was no fraud in the presidential election. cleanup on aisle 45. ♪ ♪

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things that have been made abundantly clear about donald trump throughout the january six hearings, it is that he is a bully that the man has a temper. we have her testimony detailing out of failed former president called his vice president a win over the phone as he tried to compel mike pence to overturn the election results on january six. on tuesday's testimony, former aide to white house chief of staff mark meadows, cassidy hutchison, pulled a story about what trump did in december 2020

after he learned that his attorney general bill barr said in the interview that the department of justice had not found evidence of widespread fraud in that year's election. watch this again. >> on december one, 2020, attorney barr said in an interview that the department of justice had not found evidence of widespread election fraud. sufficient to change the outcome of the election. miss hutchinson, how did the president react to hearing that news? >> around the time that i understand the article went live, i remember hearing a noise coming from down the hallway so i post my head out of the office and i saw the valet walking towards our office. he had said get the chief down to the dining room, the president wants him. mark went down to the dining room, came back to the office a few minutes later, after mark had returned, i left the office and went down to the dining room, and i notice that the

door is propped open and the valley it was inside the dining room changing the tablecloth off of the dining room table. the motion for me to come in, and pointed to the front of the room near the fireplace mantle on the tv. that is where i first noticed that there was ketchup dripping down the wall and there is a shattered porcelain plate on the floor. the valley had articulated that the president was extremely angry. at the attorney general's apa interview. he had thrown lunch against the wall. that was causing this to clean up. i grabbed a towel and started wiping the ketchup off of the wall to help the valley out. he said something to be effective, he's really ticked off about this. i would stay clear of him for right now. he is really ticked off about this right now. >> and miss hutchinson, was the

only instance that you are aware of where the president through dishes? >> it's not. >> and other other instances in the dining room that you recall where he expressed his anger? >> there were several times throughout my tenure at the chief of staff where i was aware of him either throwing dishes or flipping a tablecloth to let all of the contents of the table go on the floor and likely break or go everywhere. ite footlong, set a pickup time, and jump the line! oh, here she goes! ugh, i thought she was actually gonna jump. just use this code and order on the subway app!

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my minions will save me. talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. [ speaking minion ] unless they screw everything up. hello. >> for most of, us it has been clear from the very start that donald trump was complicit in the attempt to overthrow the 2020 election, had influence that violent mob on january 6th. these public hearings have erased any doubt that the former president deserves a lot of the blame, but the question remains whether the january six committee public hearings --

wahhabism supporters in congress, at with voters around the country. according to an associated press poll, conducted after the first five hearings, but before cassidy hutchinson testified on tuesday, 48% of adults say that donald trump should be charged with a crime for his role in january six, 31% say he should not be charged, and 20% say they do not know enough to have an opinion. but, a separate survey from emerson college released on friday found that more registered voters would choose donald trump over joe biden in a 2024 rematch. the national poll shows trump leading biden 44% to 39%. this is all despite the very damning public hearings. coming up next, we will dive into what is going on inside the republican party with this man former illinois congressman and presidential candidate joe walsh. we are coming right back. oming right back [lazer beam and sizzling sounds]

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at wayfair. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. every search you make, every click you take,

every move you make, every step you take, i'll be watching you. the internet doesn't have to be duckduckgo is a free all in one privacy app with a built in search engine, web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. >> joining me now is my friend duckduckgo: privacy, simplified. joe walsh former republican congressman from illinois, host of the podcast white flag with joe walsh. is the author of the book f silence, although he spells it out on the book cover. he ran for president against donald, trump joe, good to see, again thanks for being with us. you tweet a lot, i enjoy following your tweets, you tweeted on -- yesterday july, first all those people saying donald trump is cooked, he won't recover from, this he will never be the 2024 gop nominee, et cetera, et cetera, really ought to slow

down with those takes. you think it is entirely likely that donald trump not only survives, this but flourishes? >> absolutely, ali, by the way good have you back. i missed you. look, i speak to the trump base every day, three quick points. if these hearings to focus on trump throwing this is around the white house and trying to -- that kind of behavior is only going to strengthen trump's support among his base. i would argue, ali, strength and trump support among independent voters. the big news of the past week was, as you know, donald trump knew his supporters were armed, he wanted them armed, he wanted them to take the capital and he wanted to be there with them. i would remind all of my friends and colleagues, and people in the media business, ali, we all want trump gone because he has a bad horrible person. but, i remind them all of this.

in the week after january 6th, the actual insurrection, i heard from trump's base every day and ali, their support for trump wavered. i mean it was teetering for a week or two, and then over the days, weeks, and months, it's strengthened and it hardens. >> mccarthy said he needs to be held, accountable also to people, senior republicans were saying that donald trump has to be held accountable. this is a bridge too far, lindsey graham was in on, that and then everybody backed off. what happened between the moment in which support for trump waned, and then built back? >> -- tucker carlson opened has, martha laura and gwen opened her mouth, and all the rest. the base than donald trump and his supporters opened their mouths and fought back, because remember trump never acknowledges any wrongdoing. and so then, the base fortified

and once the base fortified, ali, mitch mcconnell, kevin mccarthy, and everybody else lost their spines again. the other really important information, ali, is i have heard from trump's base every day this week, they are not bothered by his behavior that they are finding out about these hearings. the only reason they are softening on trump's because, they think all of this stuff may make it harder for him to win again. that is all. >> let me ask you what you said about -- we talk about catch up on the walls, or things like that which makes a lot of people who think donald trump is crazy or nuts or unhinged continue to believe that. you said that does not resonate with republicans, or trump supporters, and perhaps with independence, why is that, they think that is salacious, that is the person carrying on a bomb which they do not like trump? >> yeah, they think that is -- that strengthens trump because it enables him and his people

to say look, the media is going after me for silly stupid stuff, i threw catch up against the wall. but, ali, the other thing is, that kind of behavior, look the american people not just trump's base right now, the american people are pissed off. you and i have talked about, it we are living in a populace moment. the republican populists are bad, like trump and desantis, but we don't have any democratic populace right now to meet the anger of this moment. and so i think that kind of angry behavior of trump, that does not weaken him with most people. >> let me ask you about what fox has been saying in the days since tuesday. very different than what you would hear here on msnbc, in fact let's listen to a number of prominent host said about cassidy hutchinson in the days since. >> today we heard more rumors, a ton of hearsay, and while, a lot of impeached testimony.

>> it looks like she was auditioning for a seat at the view, or the -- staffers of pennsylvania avenue, it seemed like an audition tape that wasn't going well for her. >> look at her, she is the new it girl, right? she's going to get a job offer at cnn, and she will be a contributor, she will probably get a book deal and waltz around every party in washington, go to -- never have to pay for another drink. some suspicious of her. >> so, i'm curious, joe, what changed the view of people after january, six and you said fox so's got involved. how influential is this that cassidy hutchinson's testimony which a lot of people believed to be brave whistleblower testimony is being painted as opportunistic and all of these things that you just heard fox hosts say? >> ali, it is incredibly influential. everything you just played there is almost word for word what i have heard from trump supporters all week. and it is almost word for word what we heard from liz cheney's opponents the other night on

that debate stage. everybody laughs, everybody else laughs at that stuff, but that is where the base is. that is why liz cheney will probably not win next month, because this is where the base is. fox news is reflecting, and giving voice to that base as well. >> i have to ask you about, that with liz cheney, because i would like to remind people, you are not some softie liberal. you are not a conservative, you are hard conservative like liz cheney is. does it trouble you? does it saddening that -- i don't know, maybe people just turn around and decide they want list shiny, they may want her to be president one day. but does a sudden you that she might lose? >> i think she is going to lose, and it devastates me. but ali, my moment of sadness was two and a half years ago when i realized there was no place in this republican party for me. i think liz cheney knows that deep down, i know adam

kinzinger knows that deep down. look, this past week liz cheney got great applause at the reagan library by a bunch of republican establishment types, but they are not deciding the future of this party, the base of voters in wyoming and all these other states, they do not support liz cheney. they, those, people will decide the future of this party. it is devastating. >> joe, good to see, again thanks very much for all you do including white flag, this podcast in which you talk to people -- you deliberately talk to people who do not share your view on things, that is actually the future of dialogue in this country. joe, good to see you, former publican congressman joe walsh. straight, ahead the new post route landscape with -- new fight taking shape, plus the latest on the war in ukraine. inflation, and much more, another hour of velshi begins right now.

and good morning to, you it is that electrolytes tech, it is 9 am in the, east 6 am in the west, i am -- a full week has not passed since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, the landmark president that once guaranteed abortion as a constitutional right in america. it is the culmination of a decades-long effort by abortion rights opponents to deny half of the american population access to basic and essential health care. they have been preparing for this for years, even before the supreme court announced its decision 80s ago. access to abortion and many states was already limited, still the supreme court ruling as drastically chance for republican health care in america and just one week. some clinics around the country are already overwhelmed, and fully booked for weeks in advance. additionally, clinics and states where abortion will remain legal are scrambling to expand their services. meanwhile, many people have been stocking up on emergency contraception pills, in case they or their children might need them in the future.

demand for emergency contraception as search so much as the supreme court ruling that drug stores are now rationing their stockpiles. medical associations on the other hand are worried that the lack of timely and easy access to abortion may have great consequences, warning that the supreme court's ruling will affect health care beyond abortion, and may create new risks for patients. one abortion provider in ohio for example told the dayton daily news, that they recently saw a cancer patient who had to terminate her pregnancy before she could start chemotherapy. they could not help her do that, so she was advised to travel to indiana for abortion care. underlying these stories is the palpable fear that they once venerated american institution, the supreme court, might continue to erode americans personal liberties as associate justice clarence thomas suggested in his concurring opinion. that is why people have been protesting since last week, and that is why many more are expected to turn out next saturday for a nationwide rally

coordinated by the women's march. on thursday, 181 people were arrested after they staged a demonstration on the street in front of the supreme court, among those arrested was democratic congressman judy chu of california, the lead sponsor of the women's health protection act. a bill that would quantify abortion rights nationwide. >> she is calling for the senate to abolish the filibuster and pass her bill, a move for which president biden has supported, but a remove that -- a move that remains highly unlikely. -- getting rid of the filibuster. we've seen a lot of anger and confusion about abortion rights in america. that is what happens when a constitutional right that was believed to be set in law is suddenly stripped away after nearly five decades. abortion is no longer a guaranteed right throughout the country. it also doesn't mean that any state that wants to ban it has been able to ban it right away. you've