be in this predicament today. >> maybe there are no more answers. no reason to keep digging up the pass. just leave it rooted right where it is, and let the spanish moss group. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline". i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. welcome to the show, i'm mehdi hassan. -- all but 17 white men. there has never been a black woman on the highest court in the land. on thursday at noon, that changed. >> i do solemnly swear that i will administer justice without respect to person's and do

equal right to the poor and the rich. and that i will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me. as an associate justice of the supreme court of the united states. >> meet the newest member of the u.s. supreme court, history was made on thursday. in a moment, i will speak with former democratic -- who guided jackson through her tumultuous senate process. but first, let me take you back to 1998, when president bill clinton appeared before a grand jury, any investigation by independent counsel who -- >> there was no sex of any kind,

in any kind of shape or form with president clinton, was it utterly false statement? as a correct? >> it depends upon what meaning of the word is in this case. >> it depends on what's the meaning of the word is, is. a classic. why are we showing you that special moment in presidential rhetoric? the person asking the questions of president clinton, is this fellow. within kenneth's team, he was known for its hard charging tactics. he leans so hard to the right, he calls himself a paleo conservative. it was quite something this week, when he was asked to respond to the bombshell testimony from former trump white house aide, catholic -- kathy hutchinson. this is the smoking gun -- gun.

even a self paleo conservative, who helped bring the impeachment of bill clinton, says there's enough to charge donald trump with a crime. he's not the only hard right and saying so. conservative former prosecutor, once wrote that hillary clinton should be prosecuted. he, wrote in rupert murdoch's post, and how many years donald trump could face behind bars. on wednesday, the january six committee, right wing republican liz cheney said fellow conservatives need to start coming to the same conclusions. she laid out the case. >> as we have shown, donald trump attempted to overturn the presidential election. he attempted to stay in office, and to prevent the peaceful transfer of presidential power. he summoned the mob to washington. he knew they were, armed on january 6th. he knew they were angry. he directed the violent mob to

march on the capital, in order to delay or prevent completely the counting of electoral votes. he attempted to go up there with him and when the violence was underway -- instead he incited further violence. tweeting that mike pence was a coward. he said mike's deserves a, and he did not want to do anything in response to the hang mike pence chance. it's undeniable. >> attorney general merrick garland says he's nowhere near to making that determination of criminal culpability. how is a possible? >> he said time it again, there will be consequences for those who breached the capitol, and those who paved the way for the attack. >> the justice department remains committed to holding all january six perpetrators at

any level. accountable under law. wherever the facts, wherever they lead. >> okay attorney general. when will donald trump be held accountable? i'm old enough to remember that democrats rejoiced when president biden picked garland for the job. -- would soon be the country's top law enforcement -- there was some poetic justice to, that what about actual justice? if we could tell, it's not happening yet. >> i have yet to see an indication that the former president himself, is under investigation. it's not a difficult decision to investigate, whether this evidence before you. >> defenders argue that he can't give the right any reason to paint him as a partisan. guess what? they are already doing that. >> we will see a reprise, i fear, of the black lives matter

and the antifa riots, where they will try to use political violence to advance their ends. department of justice needs to step in and stop them. i expect the attorney general to be riding alongside them. >> it's defenders argue that he needs to remain and dependent. no matter how slow the president is with the investigation, we all agree that no attorney general should take marching orders from the president. but that gets the big question. because the president appoints the ag. did biden pick the right person for this moment? was that mild mannered, cautious, centrist lawyer, was he the right person to defend democracy and the rule of law? we'll actively resisting active authoritarianism on the right? or we would have benefit from someone else, quote i think there is compelling evidence high crimes against the united we committed by the former united states president. and they're close associates.

who spoke those words? who sees how clearly how damning the case the committee has laid out for us? his name is the doug jones, the former prosecutor of the baptist bombers. he was on the biden showed this for ag role, now held by merrick garland. doug jones joins me now. doug jones, welcome back to the show. you said there is compelling evidence, that trump committed crimes against united states. can he be charged with a crime in your view? if not multiple crimes, and which ones? >> i've also said, you did not follow the rest of that quote. i also said while there is compelling evidence about the january 6th -- i think everybody has to understand the difference between the two forms. it's a legislative body that can connect the dots, using depositions, using hearsay, any number of things.

it's not the same. they can tell the story, they can present the compelling evidence. for the department of justice, that is not the same as being able to have a testimony, that can be used in a court of law. or defense lawyers, and defendants have the right to cross examine. there is compelling evidence, it's amazing the dust that were connected by this january six committee. i'm just agreeing with congressman -- there is no evidence that higher ups are not being looked at. we've seen recently this easier of john eastman's phone. we've seen the search of jeffrey parks house. there are things going on. it's just that we cannot see -- >> those are good points. the clock -- happened in the last week, ten days, that we learned about it. do you understand, why people, are frustrated with garland? according to adam shift, doesn't seem to be

investigating trump himself. people around trump. do you understand why people are frustrated? the job should had gone to doug jones, or someone else? >> i don't get into the nomination process. certainly understand people who have never been part of the criminal justice system. -- can be frustrating. just 40 years to prosecute the 16th street baptist church bombing cases. it was incredibly frustrating. but i do believe this justice department is moving, they are following the rules and their law, they are doing it very methodically. we cannot rush this process. this is not a bank robbery case, it's not your average fraud case. it involves the former president of the united states. in addition to stringent evidence standards, they will also be some very serious

policy question. the thought that nobody should be above the law. -- former president as an offend in a criminal trial. >> the bar as high on this one. it's not an ordinary case. i would just say, for our viewers, this is not just you saying to me, wow, it's the doj. adam schiff is a former prosecutor, head of the house intelligence committee. he understands the justice protest to. he seems frustrated, other members of congress are also saying, where is the doj? it does seem to have a lack of urgency, on the part of this administration, in the middle of these hearings. we summer garland, going off to ukraine. we see -- joe biden meeting with world leaders in europe. taking selfies right now. many would argue, he should be back in the u.s., leading on the abortion issue? >> let me tell you something, with all due respect, people that act from a sense of urgency, and the criminal

justice process, screw it up. they get sloppy, they overlook things, they do not get to think. you cannot do this from a sense of urgency, urgency happened on january 6th, got over 800 indictments. we cannot operate. the justice department should never operate, simply from a sense of political urgency. or even legal urgency. urgenthere are processes in pl, that takes a methodical preparation, by experienced people. that's why merrick garland is brought to the tape, he's had to put together a team, to help get to the bottom of this. to move quickly as they can. >> i keep half agreeing with you. this should not be urgency in the process, but the person at the center of it, could be president in two years, in charge of that doj. there's urgency whether we wanted or not. on the trip that joe biden made,

he made some progress on the filibuster. have a listen. >> i believe we have two -- and the way to do that, it's to make sure that congress votes to do that. and if the filibuster gets in the way, it's like voting rest, we should provide an exception to this. -- requiring exception of the filibuster. >> he made news saying he would support changing the filibuster rules to codify abortion rights, broadly across the country. >> right to privacy, not just abortion rights, but yes abortion rights. >> i'm glad he's finally called for it. slightly frustrated it's taken so long. i have to ask you, who is to say the supreme court, would not just knock down any bill codifying roe? just thursday they gutted the epa's ability to tackle climate change. i wonder, why are not more democrats talking about the plan for the court itself? not just term limits for

justices, but rebalancing the court after donald trump, mitch mcconnell, packed it? >> i think because, they are talking about reality. reality is, you are not going to pack the supreme court. we have to be very practical. we need to talk about high in the sky things we would love to do, we have an 80% majority. but we cannot do that. you are not going to pack the supreme court, it will not happen. you have to understand that's frustrating to a lot of people. but it's frustrating to the very same people who should have made sure that we were putting people in place, voting for the last 20 years. and now they have a court, and we have people who are organized, and get out there. i do you think they're right. it would be a challenge, anything that congress does, is going to get challenged in a court of law. we have to make sure we do it. that does not mean that we don't do everything we can in the states, get the things we can take is state --

filibuster on abortion rights. it would be very important to do that. as we talked about, it is a slippery slope. because if we don't go out there and vote, we're gonna have a republican president and republican congress that will undo everything. >> here's my issue doug jones. when you say pie in the sky, i accept, it's not an easy thing to have be done. the republicans brought it down to eight for an entire year in 2016. i understand, it's not easy. it is an ambitious goal. if you are saying it can be done, the what's you are saying is supreme court can shootdown abortion, right shoot down gun rights, shootdown voting rights, allow gerrymandering, independent legislative theory that they plan to do later this year. shoot down the separation of church and state, and democrats can do nothing. you are saying there's nothing we can do, as that robe court overturns the president, and

overturned laws? >> that's not what i'm saying at all. you're misinterpreting. i said democrats can do a lot of things, they can get their butts out and vote, get on the start of electing people, and get majorities in the united states senate. and putting these things on the table. >> that doesn't change a supreme court. >> let me finish. democrats cannot just wave a magic wand. we have 50 50 vote in the united states. we only have a ten vote majority in the house. a ten vwe can't wave a magic wd you have things changed. we have three branches of government. constitution says, we can't magically change all of that. we've had nine members of the supreme court, for more than just decades. it's been for like a century. it generally worked. but it's swings, and it's swings because of the way people vote, and who they put into office. i think democrats right now,

they are frustrated because they did not pay attention to the courts for so long. and now they can see what has happened. they have the additional needs to try to expand the court. roosevelt tried -- and he got some changes in the court we have to make sure that we get people energized, joe biden's got to use the -- a little bit more, eastern use it i think a lot more, i think there's some things executive action that can be done, and there's some things that we can do but the main thing is, these midterms are coming up. >> i understand. i understand. i get that. but unless you're gonna do something about the court, you're not answering my question. i did let you finish. have you thought the court from shooting down any law that the democratic sand and it passes? >> you have to get people out and vote. you cannot just stop something anymore than republicans could've stopped it years ago, when the war in court was doing with it in light. that's not the way our country was set up to work, mehdi. if you just don't like something, you change it in a

way that gets away. you can't, it's not my way, or the highway. that's not democracy as we know it and how it works. we've got a constitutional system that we need to abide by. >> i mean, the -- republicans >> i think people need to remind the american public every day, the only person in american history that is single-handedly changed the supreme court justice was mitch mcconnell. he did it for over a year. people need to be reminded of that. people need to use these because this is gonna take some -- itzhak 50 years to overturn roe v. wade. do you think we're gonna take that overnight? >> we agree that mitch mcconnell -- we're gonna impact mitch mcconnell, edges which democrats would behave more like mitch mcconnell. former senator, doug jones, appreciate you coming on the show. always in your back and forth. thank you. still to come, we'll talk about thursday's big supreme court decisions, including one that limits biden's climate change agenda, along with more of this court's historic, and not

historic in a good way, term. that's after the break. he break as a single parent, i would run from football games to work and trying to balance it all. so, what do you see when you look at yourself? i see a person that's caring. sometimes i care too much, and that's when i had to learn to put myself first, because i would care about everyone all the time but i'm just as important as they are. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown line, crow's feet and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com

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focus solo on this rope moment of justice, ketanji brown jackson officially becoming a supreme court justice, there are more big stories coming out of the court that she has just joined. in one nbc news is calling one of the most important environmental decisions and years, the supreme court ruled

against the epa, severely limiting the environmental protection -- regulate greenhouse gases in a 63 ruling, chief justice john roberts wrote, for the majority, quote, capping carbon outside emissions at a level that will force a nationwide transition away from the use of coal, maybe a sensible solution to the crisis of the day. but it is not possible that congress gave epa the authority to adopt on its own such a regulatory scheme, a decision of such magnitude and consequence rests with congress itself. a group of 27 conservative attorneys general sparked the case, when they took issue with two federal energy rules, neither of which are currently in effect. their victory is a major blow to president biden's lofty environmental goals, forcing the biden ministration to more heavily rely on a dysfunctional congress. the three liberal justices were in the minority again, with editor kagan -- cautionary dissent, quote, whatever else the score may know about, it does not have a clue about how to address climate change. the port acquainted

self-instead of congress, so the expert agency -- i cannot think of many things more frightening, respectfully, i dissent. the court also handed biden a victory on thursday, allowing his administration to end the trump era remain-in-mexico policy. that's the cool policy that forces alam seekers at the southern border to wait in mexico for their cases, sometimes for months or even years. nearly 70,000 people were held in limbo because of that policy, setting up ten cities on the mexican side of the border. it was a 54 decision, with justice roberts and brett kavanaugh, surprise, siding with the three liberals. surely, that's not enough to save the supreme court's crumbling legitimacy, given everything else they've done in recent weeks. here with me now, mark joseph stern. senior writer for slate, covering the courts and the law. mark, welcome back to the show. this term, the supreme court has ruled on everything from abortion right to voting right, to climate change, gun control. all in extreme, unpopular, and

many would argue, unprecedented ways. how will history remember this latest judicial rollercoaster? some are calling it a judicial coup. well, i think that, frankly, history will remember this as the beginning of a conservative revolution. in some ways, it is the culmination of a decades-long effort to overturn countless liberal presidents. on that front,. the majority succeeded. and another sense, the majority is just teeing up a series of future decisions, that will go much further, beyond what it did this term. it's devastating and indeed catastrophic, as many of these rulings are. i think, what's wrong the bound is even more frightening. we shouldn't think that just because the short -- of its list, this month, that is anywhere close to this -- done with his rampage. >> indeed. the climate change decision today, on thursday, just horrific. the decision on west virginia

versus epa, explicitly limiting the powers of the environmental protection agency. but, it's not just the threat to the planet, that the supreme court now poses, it's the entire -- as you say, conservative revolution. the federal government's broader power of regulation. help unpack for us the full impact of this ruling? how will it affect other departments, other things the federal government wants to do? >> for many decades, when the kind of government rulersome regulation is legal, it looks at the text of law that congress passed. it says, well, is this authorized by the law? the congress enacted. and this decision, the court actually, kind, of abolishes that approach. creating a new doctrine that it calls, the major questions doctrine. it says, when there is some kind of government action or regulation, that involves a major question about the environment, about energy, about any kind of policy that

five justices think is really important, it's not enough for it to fit into the law that congress passed. congress has to somehow go far above and beyond and say, in the most explicit terms possible, this is allowed. here, congress did not use the words regulating carbon emissions through cap and trade, or something like that. the supreme court says, the apa doesn't get to do it. >> ridiculous. last but not least, as if all this wasn't enough, the supreme court is already scheduling its next term, and it's agreed to hear a case that will give slate legislatures, potentially independent power, to set election rules in their state and disregard state constitution, state courts. this was the theory that was at the heart of john eastman's bonkers plan for mike pence to help overturn the election for trump. i mean, are we had a point where the supreme court is going to affect, influence,

help decide the next presidential election? or am i overstating this? >> you're not overstating this. this is one of the biggest and most frightening cases involving american democracy, the supreme court has heard in history. this has the potential to revolutionize the way that we conduct elections, by giving gerrymandered state legislatures absolute and untrimmed pulled authority overall election laws, including not just partisan gerrymandering in voting rights, but also the appointment of presidential electors in the electoral college. the supreme court could use this case to effectively legalize the coup attempt that trump made in 2020, by letting state legislatures throw out the popular vote in their state, and instead assign electors to the losing republican candidate. this is a horrific case. it's an absolute alarm for everyone who studies voting rights and democracy, and we should be very afraid of what the court will do with it. >> we should be afraid and we should be expecting our leaders

to act and do something about this rogue supreme court. mark joseph stern, always -- your clear-eyed analysis. thank you. still to come, a conversation with my msnbc colleague, katie -- on a new book, a deeply personal account detailing the ups and downs of coming from a family of journalists. that's after a very short break. break. thanks, dad. that's right, robert. and it's never too early to learn you could save with america's number one motorcycle insurer. that's right, jamie. but it's not just about savings. it's about the friends we make along the way. you said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will thank you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember. my a1c stayed here, what was it? it needed to be here. ruby's a1c is down with rybelsus®. my a1c wasn't at goal, now i'm down with rybelsus®.

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married couple came to define this brand of tv journalism. hanging out of choppers, covering car chases, like oj simpson in the ford bronco, and the l.a. riots. all of it in realtime, they also happen to be the parents of my msnbc parent, katie turk, who has written a book about. this called rough draft. she talks about a father's abuse, and her own career in journalism and the massage and she has faced. it's a fascinating memoir, i spoke to katie about all of it. >> katie, thank you for joining me on the show. congratulations on the book. this, correct me if i am wrong, it's your second memoir, and you're not even 48. what made you want to write this book? >> i'm a real jerk. this one i wrote because i, like a lot of people, in the middle of a pandemic, found myself very isolated, very

confused, very anxious. i started to doubt who i was, and where i was going. why am i journalist, am i making the world better or worse? do i enjoy this? do i want to quit, i started spiraling. my parents were journalists, they lost everything when my dad was 38, and i started to get a little paranoid thinking, i'm 38, maybe it is all coming to an end up for me as well. i got superstitious. i realize the only way to figure out where i was going, was to figure out where i had come from. in the middle of the pandemic, my mom sent me a big hard drive, with thousands of hours of news tape. news footage, my parents are journalists. they owned all the footage they shot, like doj case, and a day in l.a. riots. it also contained my childhood videos. i had to go look at those, and confront some of the stuff i have been running away from for

over a decade, to figure out what the heck i was going to do next. >> i did not know about your parents, until i read the book. fascinating, especially doj chase. and stuff about hanging out of helicopters. your parents covered these major l.a. news stories, in the 80s and 90s. you were there is a kid, watching them do, it sometimes riding along. when did you know, you wanted to become a journalist? >> i knew i wanted to be a journalist by, i believe it was my senior year of college. up until then, i wanted no part in a family business whatsoever. i did not find it cool, i found it very annoying. they also lost everything when i was 14, i was wary of the business in general. i thought it could be a bit predatory, and ruin your life. i did not want to have a part of that. i want to be a doctor, a lawyer, something stable. i found myself, at the end of college, not wanting to go to school any longer. i was driving back from los angeles, to santa barbara or i went to school. there was a roadblock, and a

fire in malibu. i found myself trying to talk my way into passing the police lines, there's nothing i wanted more than to be consumed by the smoke, to see the flames up close. i realized in that moment, that i wanted to be a journalist. >> i'm the son of an indian doctor, that is very disappointed that both big kids became journalists. >> it is one successful store in the family. >> me and my sister both became journalists. julie disappointing for our parents. you have an interesting line in the book, about your parents worked in local news. you say today, some former colleagues by my parents, for the kind of work but parents did, for the downfall of local tv news. some would say the downfall of national tv news to. they don't dispute, it neither do. why what do you mean by that exactly? just throwing a follow-up, you and i both worked and national news. what should we be doing to save the news? >> this is an interesting

question. my parents were helicopter journalists. they popularized the live police chase. they did a lot of important work that was a country changing, they covered the riots, some of it needed to be captured on television. they called out the lapd for abandoning the city, they got police brutality on camera that would have never been discovered, had they not been in the position they were in. they did incredible things. they won every award you can imagine. but they popularize live tv police chase. that sensationalized the news, it was in the moment, now now now, no context surrounding it. you blow out programming to follow, it you can make an argument that we hooks a viewers, or they hooked viewers on entertainment as news. a news as entertainment. you can make an argument that is what happened with the trump

campaign, covering his rallies without interruption, day in and day out. we now work and national tv, i think there is a lot of conversation that should happen about how we do things, and what we can do better. one of the examples that i pull out in the book was, mine in particular, i would coverage of the summary of the mueller report. we've got, that we were blind. we did not know with the underlying evidence was, all we had to go on, this was weeks before the mueller report came out. it's when ag barr, when he had to say about it, and we now know it was misleading. we were used, you could argue by the administration, to give a lie or a misleading summary, a head start over the truth for three weeks. >> yes. in the book, there's a lot to take in. it's fascinating, covers so many things. we celebrated father's day last weekend, a lot of this book is about your father's transition,

a lot of powerful parts in the book certainly. what was your reaction when you got that phone call from your father in 2013? >> my dad and i, for context, had a strained relationship ever since i became a little bit older. when i was younger, my dad was my hero. could not do anything wrong, my hero. but my dad, growing up was also quite volatile, and could be quite a violent. he had a hard childhood, i will be very clear on pronouns here, my dad transition in 2013, and i used she for every moment at that point and beyond. i do you see for the memories that i've had as a kid. i had a conversation about my dad, calling my that, that. which she sanctioned. growing up, she could be volatile, he could be violent, and volatile, he directed a lot of it towards my mother. and i felt it was normal, that's what marriage was.

it got redirected to my brother and me. as i got older, i realized it was not normal. so i pushed back. our relationship estranged. in 2013, my dad called me, i was covering the boston bombings, and he said that he was not a he at all. he was a she. that -- was that, and he was zoe. all the rage that bob had, was gone as well. and i use that as an opening to confront that range, which i had not had the guts to confront for many years. i knew it would turn any conversation into an argument. i said that's great, i would love to move on. i would love to move past this, but we have to confront what happened in the past. because that stuff has not gone to me, bob turner maybe going to, you but that was my dad. and it's not gone. it was hard the conversation did not go so well and it ended okay but the next conversation we had, did not go well at all. and we really have not had a

relationship since then, so father's day, i have a husband of married i have kids, it's nice with my new husband. i'm excited for that. father's day is really a tough day for me. >> it's bold to write about all of this stuff. what was your dad's reaction to the book? >> we have not spoken. i do not know if she has read the whole book. i hope she has. because there is a lot there, and it's not all that, it's not all good, it's just the truth. and i think that, i hope that she understands where i'm coming from. and telling the glory days stories, and all the incredible things that my dad and mom did, they did amazing things. in order to tell it fully, i had to be honest about all of it. >> my thanks to katie tyr. it's a rough giraffe, it's my

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about -- >> my sister told me about -- >> yes. >> i don't know if she was talking about. >> it's an old folksong. hey, julie, hi, julie. 20 miles before -- >> [laughs] >> the story, the camel driver, he there had been two major motion pictures made -- >> come on. >> i'm not getting you. once called humps. hi, julie, came from -- hired by secretary war, jefferson davis, the same man who became the presidents of confederacy to use the camels and to establish camels as a means of transportation to the southwest. >> how do you ever heard of

hadji ali? the greek and convert of islam who was hired by the army and the 1800 to test of camel driving? it's one of the many unusual and surprising stories of muslims in american history that come up in a new pbs here is called the great muslim american road trip. the new three-part documentary series, artisan actors take a journey, a road trip, across route 66 to discover untold stories of america's muslim roots in cities across the country. camel drivers and all. the host of the series are with me now to talk about more of the show. multidisciplinary artist -- and her husband, and using manager, sebastian robin's. thank you both for joining me. congratulations on the show. mono, what made you want sebastian want to do this series? was there anything that you learned, out on the road, that really, really surprised you? >> they were a couple reasons we wanted to the show. one, we it was an opportunity

for us. we're not actors, to just be real, on camera, and go on a trip together, after a pandemic and isolation. it was kind of like a second honeymoon, a little bit. one thing that really stood out to me was that muslims were here, on this land, from the 15 hundreds. that was something that i learned, that i hadn't known before. there was a man named -- who was brought over as a slave. he wasn't rocket man who was brought over by the spanish conquistador's, and the native american tribe, maintained an oral tradition of him being here. we learned a lot. >> wow. sebastian, this series, it's about this often untold history of muslims in america, but it's also quite personal in ways. i want to play quid clip, have a listen. >> obviously, you didn't grow up our muslim. >> i did not. >> but you are muslim now. >> yeah. i am. >> how did that happen?

>> my dad is jewish, and my mom 's christian. you know, i didn't for various reasons, find a home in either of those religions. yeah, i've always been a seeker and i've been looking for god in various places. >> we'll let people get the rescue story on the show itself, but would you say, sebastian, the show is a bit of a personal journey for you and mona, as muslims of in america today? >> absolutely. was started as this idea of the second honeymoon, and his personal trip, really blossomed into something much more beautiful. frankly, much more interesting than the two of us. you see us being goofy, making dumb jokes, mona rolling her eyes it us, even, should listen to music, you get all that stuff. but really, there was this

uncovering of this hidden and unknown history, at least unknown to us, as we saw with people at the -- an interview. a stamp from board archaeologist in new mexico, a historian. we thought we knew something, we thought we knew something about islam, we knew thought we knew something about this country, but really, our understanding just blossomed as we got more connected as a couple. ultimately, it resolve to do better in our lives, to be better on this planet, and better in our faith. >> i mean, i'm all for second honeymoons, i'm not sure i'd be bold enough to do a second honeymoon with my wife on tape for the world to watch. but, good for you guys. mona, you have this new series out on pbs, but it's not the only way a lot of americans have come to know you. your 2017 debut wrap single, wrap my head job, that was a huge hit. the more magazine put it on a list -- protests songs of 2017 and

named one of the top 25 feminist anthems of the year. people have a lot of stereotypes about muslims, and especially muslim women in america. everything you do seems to be about ulcer types. >> isn't that fascinating? i feel like when we're just a lot to be human beings, it smashes all those preconceived notions of stereotypes. i've just been really lucky to be able to put out my music, and not really worry too much about what people are going to say or think. i think, that impacts those boxes that people try to put this in. i'm not worried about what they think, or what they don't think. i'm just trying to do me, trying to be who i am out in the world. at that point, a pregnant rapper, i feel like i don't represent a lot of muslims, but the people i do represent, hopefully i represent them well. my community, my people. >> last quick question to sebastian, what do you hope the

viewers, especially non-muslim american viewers, take away from the series? >> you know, there's the incredible history of the diverse people we met, but i think most of americans, like many other groups, are under tremendous pressure to be extraordinary, to excel, to somehow -- not only survive this world, but do it better than anyone else. we do need extraordinary people, who are excelling, but we also need muslims, as mueller just said, who are living their life, who are restaurant owners, who are's daughters, sons, who are actors, who are physicians. people just being normal. it's unfortunate that that's the exception, that we're showing normalcy in humanizing people -- if there's one thing we showed is very well, it does that. it shows people living their lives, and they all happened to

be muslim. they happen to practice and pray the same way that we do, but that's not the defining feature of who they are. they're living their lives, and they're going of the mountain on their path. >> well said. sebastian robins, mona heather, thank you so much for coming on. the great muslim american road trip premieres on tuesday, july the 5th, on 10 pm eastern on pbs. we'll be back with a look ahead right after the break. t after the break. matoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some...rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer;

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