in the chicago area, where a gunman killed six people in the fourth of july parade. shots rang out sending people running for their lives. 24 people have been transferred to local hospitals. they canceled independence day celebrations and authorities urging everyone to stay indoors as the shooter is still at large and believed to be armed and dangerous. police describe the suspect as a white male between the ages of 18 and 20, left behind what was described as a high-powered rifle. the deputy chief of the lake county sheriff's office described the shooting as, quote, completely random as well as parade participants. a doctor who was at the parade and stayed on the scene to help

treat victims compared it to those sustained in a war zone. >> we heard gunshots people thought for five seconds that it was fireworks until people started screaming bodies down, bodies down and everyone started running. there were six people who i saw who were horribly, horribly injured from the gun shot, and the gunshot wounds that these people sustained are like war injuries. i've never served, but i've been in the emergency rooms and i've seen horrific things. the bodies that i saw -- it was not an image that anyone who is not a physician would have an easy time processing. >> let's bring in nbc news correspondent rehema ellis who has been covering this story for us. rehema, what is the latest on the ground? >> the very latest on the ground is they are engaged in an intense man hunt for this suspect. hundreds of officers are blanketing the area trying to find the person responsible for this mayhem. authorities say that local,

state and federal authorities are all working together on this man hunt. you described the person whom they are looking for, someone between the ages of 18 and 20 years old, someone of small build with long hair. authorities also say it's important to remember how quickly they responded. this was a fourth of july parade. typically there are -- there is a presence of police and fire folks engaged in the parade route. well, they were this day at highland park, and officers heard the fire and they ran toward the fire according to authorities, but they say the gunman stopped when police got close. they call this case that it was very random, but at the same time it was very intentional and that's not to say they know a motive because we should be very clear that authorities on the ground are saying they do not have a motive or at least they are not revealing that to us at this moment. this is a community that is what

we understand an affluent community and it has a large jewish population, but in no way, in no way are authorities saying do they think that this crime was hate motivated. it was a description of the community. a community that set out for a holiday celebration as one woman said and they came to celebrate freedom, but what happened today did not make them feel free. >> indeed, rehema, you have been covering the story since it broke. i wonder, you spoke a little bit about the motive. of course, that man hunt remains active for this shooter. which outstanding questions do you have at this hour? >> well, why? that's what everyone wants to know. why this community? why this day? why this time in if you have a high-powered rifle which is what authorities say that this person has, they did not say whether that's all they have and in fact, they have said people should consider the suspect armed and dangerous, but that is the ultimate question. why do it? why pick this community?

why target families with their children, mothers and fathers, uncles and grandparents sitting on lawn chairs with toys and with coolers and blankets, just to watch a parade, just to be in celebration? it is a question that authorities have to ask themselves maybe it's one of the questions in asking it will help to lead them to a suspect. that's not known at this moment. what we do know is authorities are asking for all of the help they can get. all of us have cameras in our phones. people are typically taking pictures all the while an event is going on. they're asking for any tips, any video that might help lead them to the capture of the suspect right now. >> rehema, of course, we have the fbi working with local law enforcement officials and weir going to be speaking with a number of experts at this hour about what that investigation looks like. can you give us a sense of what you have learned about how these various entities are, woing

working together and a two-pronged approach with the active man hunt and the criminal investigation. >> as one of the authorities mentioned earlier they will leave no stone unturned. when people scatter and they're running, things get kicked and things get knocked and you don't know what it is, but they're not going to assume that it is not important. so while they are moving quickly, they are moving very methodically and very carefully to make certain that they provides much forensic evidence as they can for authorities as they continue this investigation. >> let's bring in frank figliuzzi, former assistant for counterintelligence and msnbc national security analyst. frank, the shooter's motive unknown at this time. there is no doubt, however, that he intended to create and cause terror. >> yeah. alicia, this was planned and planned well in advance. this shooter has cased this street and buildings and selected and if indeed he was up

on a roof, selected a building and tested how he could get access to the building and got access to the roof and even practicing and security video may capture that maybe not only today, but in days previous, and also there's going to be in his mind and i emphasize in his mind, and it may not make sense to us and there has to be some nexus with this community, some beef that he may have had even if it is an illusion with this town, with the parade organizers with the people he thought he was shooting at, whether there was a specific target or a group that was marching that he had a beef with, but there will be something there even if it's only apparent to him and boy, do we have evidence to work with now. we've got a weapon that's been left behind. obviously, there are shell casings that have been ejected from spent rounds. all of this will contain fingerprint and/or dna evidence in a matter of minutes, the fbi

can run those lateen prints through its system and if it's ever been printed and that's a big if because we're hearing his age is rather young. so there may be no prints on record and there may be no dna on record, but that traceable weapon will be traced, and he will be identified. i take real note that he chose to leave the weapon behind. people will say of course, he did and it's very unwield toe run down the street and flee when you're carrying a rifle. he also knew he would be identified by the weapon and i believe he left it to say this is what i've done. this is who i am. i care less about escaping than about saying i did this. i was about the task. he may not have spent a great deal of time thinking about the escape. we're four hours into this and what does that tell us about the man hunt? i don't think he's planned this out well afterwards. he did it very well to execute

his plan and not so much afterwards, and it may be that he's hunkered down somewhere and not on the move. it may even be that since he's accomplished his task in his mind that he takes his own life, so i believe he'll be captured and/or his body recovered and tons of evidence to work with, intelligence community and even kicking in to ensure that their sources and techniques are indicating some international nexus to this, but unlikely, we're dealing with an 18 to 20-year-old, probably someone from the area that thinks he had a beef with somebody in this community wanted to do this on a major, iconic holiday, get attention and say here's what i've done and here's where i am. >> how is it that intelligence officials are. i have to ask you, the fbi has opened up a tip line. they are hoping for any information they can gather from anyone that has any information include as noted video and they

want people to look for what is on their phones and look for any evidence that they have, once the fbi has that information and has that data in hand, how do they begin to pull through it and what is it, frank, that they are looking for? >> yeah. so, look, people are being called in on this holiday weekend, even in washington, d.c. in the fbi laboratory and the photo experts and the video experts and the fbi chicago just 30 miles away. one of the biggest field offices in the country, they've got a forensics capability there that's fantastic. they're going to be enhancing video as it comes in and they'll make sense out of time. they're going to do a time line, right? so maybe a hundred people send in their cell phone video of the parade. they're going to put that right in line in order, down the street in time order so they can see even this shooter walking his way, perhaps, through the crowd. you saw this with regard to the boston marathon bombing and how

they were able to piece together and clips of people's video and security cameras from businesses and all put it together in a logical fashion. that's great, by the way, but that's not the priority now because really, they've got to find this guy and the public plays a huge role in this and we heard jim cavanaugh say earlier today in his excellent analysis of of this and mass shooters look their intentions to people whether they intend to or not. someone out there knows something, heard something, saw something. a week ago yesterday six months ago, and someone needs to call in to the tip line, to the police, to the fbi and say i think i know who did this, and don't be embarrassed if you're wrong. don't be embarrassed just don't let it be you that doesn't call in with the right information, but they leak their intentions and they voice their grieves, they care grievances on their

back and start spouting frustration, despondency, i can't take it anymore. they talk about hurting themselves and others and they talk about acquiring a weapon and just before the flash point they go silent and they even disappear and maybe go live somewhere else and maybe go camp in the woods and nobody knows where they've been in the last 24, 48 hours and that's your guy. if that describes someone you know you should be calling in and say i just want to give you that piece of information. >> i want to remind our viewers that we are awaiting a press conference. one state senator was on the scene. i know that we still do not have a stated motive from police officials. when they are calling this act random, what does that mean? >> well, it's interesting, right? i think in the same breath they were saying this was planned and then they're saying it was random and i'm trying to discern this, as you are, alicia, but i think what they mean you have a

planned event and clearly he chose this. it didn't happen when he woke up this morning. he didn't plan it this morning. he had to select the weapon and he had to decide how to do it and how to get up on the roof if indeed that's what happened, but what they may be saying and this is important is there may have been a randomness to his targeting and with regard to motive and maybe it was a marching group, maybe it was the high school marching band only. there's a clear nexus and we have a clear problem between him and the marching band and if the victims are random and scattered and he's indiscriminately shooting that may be the randomness he's speaking to. that becomes a motive more about the iconic, vent, more about the town, more about the beef with the community or making a splash than it is about an individual target. >> frank, i want to play some sound for you from a state senator julie morrison who was at the parade as this happened. take a listen. >> absolutely terrifying.

just other worldly. this doesn't happen in highland park. it shouldn't. i would never have thought gunshots in downtown highland park. never. i was in a convertible. i got down behind -- got on the floor of the car, but that's what i did. people rushed past us and since we were able to turn the car around, load the car with as many people as we could and got out of the area. >> frank, it is a refrain we have heard time and time again. this doesn't happen in my community, this shouldn't happen in my community. when you talk about looking for the nexus between the shooter and this community, what type of information are intelligence officials looking for? >> well, investigators and there will be at least two setups to the administration of this investigation. there will be an intelligence center and there will be a joint

operation center. the intelligence folks are going to be assigned digging into grievance letters and complaint letters to city hall and i've been on teams early in my career. you wouldn't get the amount of complaint letters that the mayor gets and the city counsel and some city council issue. >> they should touch base with the local high school. was there someone suspended and didn't graduate and did graduate, but under some kind of grievance. did that go into trying to establish who this is, but this notion, alicia, this can't happen here. listen, this has become our new normal. it's become our new normal. let freedom ring, and we have a problem. we have a complex problem. guns are at the center of the problem. yes, mental health is connected

to the problem, of course, it is, but look at what we're looking at. allegedly an 18 to 20-year-old. where have we seen that before? oh, just about every week with a mass shooter whether it's buffalo or uvalde or the el paso walmart or south carolina. we see it on and on again and has congress agreed to do anything about raising the age of buying a assault rifle? no. they've done something with what they call enhanced background checks. can i tell you with any certainty what that is? nope, i cannot. so here we are again with this issue of guns, young people, mental health all wrapped together and all making it virtually certain that no community is exempt from this happening. >> frank figliuzzi, you are staying with me for the hour and i want to bring you into the breaking news coverage the special agent in charge and now an msnbc terrorism analyst. the shooter has been on the loose for hours now. with kind of man hunt are we

looking at at this point? >> well, we're centering it around whatever suspects they've developed and like frank talked, there's always plenty of names that come up in a big investigation like this. it's not usually not a lack of suspects and you get names and you have to sort through that. they have names and the investigation is moving forward on different fronts like you discussed, alicia with frank. so you have a forensic investigation at the scene which yields a lot of information so far. there's a rifle. that rifle can be fingerprinted and swabbed for dna. it's a hot day and thestock, an he's sweating and there are fingerprints on the magazines and the cartridges that he loaded and the guns have a serial number. if it's not a ghost gun or he didn't try to obliterate the number the gun can be traced and the atf can do an urgent trace and they may have gotten pretty

far along with that, and they'll be trying to get to the last retail buyer. so there's a lot of information they can get right there, but they've also got eyewitness information they're putting together and they'll try to sweep the cameras in the area and all of that is the scene stuff that's happening and second, you have an intelligence component like frank described like anybody who has made threats before against the community and just radicals in the area whether they're international or domestic radicals and making threats and very active and may come up in the various intelligence units of all of the departments. so fbi has intelligence units and the atf has intelligence units and the chicago police, the state police and all of the big police departments and federal agencies have their intelligence units and they gather that information and they'll be sorting through that. and then you have the detective work that's going on following all of the tips and leads and trying to do interviews and try to piece it together to try to

locate and stop the killer before he kills again which is the main thing today, and that's what they really have to focus on, you know? i'd like to ceo of netscape is the main thing is trying to keep the main thing, the main thing and that's the task today to find him so there's no more killing. >> we are, of course, waiting for an update from local law enforcement. that should come any minute and it struck me at their last press conference that they noted that this is considered a massive scene. how does that complicate the investigation? >> well, it does for the forensic part of it, alicia because it's spread out over probably a block or more with people running. there's going to be shell casings and -- shell casings on the roof and projectiles on the ground and projectiles in victim that you want to retrieve from the hospital and the morgue. there's projectiles in the cars that were in the parade. you saw that '69 or '68 or '69

red camaro convertible loaded on and they have bullet holes and they could have retrieved a bullet and there could have someone in there that could have been killed or wounded so there's forensic evidence in there. >> that will be the machinations of the next few days, but that stuff is static. they have it. they're going to gather it and they'll keep it in case of prosecution. if you're the commander, you're making sure that happens, but it's not your total focus and your main focus is to locate the killer to stop the killing. so that's being done. you want to make sure the resourcers there, but your focus, your main thing is a little bit over here and really, it's not -- it's about the next killing and that's why you have to keep your mind because you have to get this guy before he hurts someone again. >> it also struck me in the previous press conference listening to law enforcement talk about how they're walking a fine line in any criminal investigation to releasing enough information and not

releasing any information that could compromise their investigation and canio talk about that push and full for law enforcement? >> yes, i can. i've been involved in that plane times. i know frank has -- listen, the way i used to handel that is detectives and special agents doing the line work generally don't want to release everything and want to keep everything very close and the commander takes a different position and they have to leverage the community to help us and so they can have information to put out. what i would sit down and sit down with subordinate commanders and investigators and say which stuff is sacred and what is in the vault? there is sacred information and that sacred information is only information that the police and the killer knows. no one else will know that. we cannotry lease that. let's identify that first, the makeup of the bomb, the particulars of maybe about the gun, something we picked up. that's sacred.

we're putting that over here on the side because we only want us and the killer to know, but other things we want to release, even if we didn't think we want to, we want to release a little bit more, a little bit more. like, we had a friend in the fbi who said if ted kaczynski was an only child the unabomber he'd still be free because when the letter was reduced -- released, i'm sorry, his brother recognized the writing. so if you had held the letter close and not released it, which we did for many years over that case and i was on it for many years, we never released the letter and when we did finally release the letter, you know, his brother recognized it. the letter was not throughout the whole case, but when it was finally released he recognized it. so there is some certain things that can help you identify the killer and get the right tip, and the commander's got to sit down and they've got to find out what that is. so far they've had a couple of press conferences which is good.

they were being straightforward throughout the community which is good and if they continue on that vein i think they would move ahead and i would say this guy's catchable and he'll get caught and no doubt about that in my mind, they will catch him and the task is before he kills again. >> again, we're waiting for another press conference to begin any minute now. you are staying with me. i want to bring in harry littman, former u.s. attorney general during the clinton administration. what are the big questions authorities are asking right now? >> i think it is all related as jim and frank said is stopping this guy before he kills again and there is a's whole cadre starting to think about who he is and the prosecution. look, we've had, unfortunately, as you put it, and it's a refrain and this happens again and again and again. nobody was surprised again to find out he's an 18 to 20-year-old white guy. everything frank said fits a common profile, and i don't want

to pre-judge the case, but we have a lot of evidence in previous incidents and i very much expect first that this guy is going to get caught. the big question is whether he kills or he's caught dead or alive and as soon as he is caught a whole different avenue of investigation will open up almost certainly because you'll find a wealth of social media, all kind of ranting online, et cetera, that will illuminate the motive and it could well have something to do with highland park being the strong jewish community because as frank points out this was a classic act of terrorism in the sense that the victims were arbitrary and meant to make people run and scream thinking it could be me next. i feel distressingly confident that you will find a lot of hateful social media that's going to shed a lot and a light

that is too reminiscent of other episodes that we have now hundreds of times a year in this country. >> harry, i want you to take a listen to larry bloom who was at the parade as this unfolded. >> i'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. when i finally kind of cleared the area and kind of felt safe i just -- kind of like -- leveled a bunch of profanities and was just, like, all right. yeah. so it finally happened and unfortunately, i'm not -- it's shocking, but i'm not surprised and unfortunately the way you're processing it or i'm processing it, oh, yeah. it happened and this time it's in my hometown because i'm not surprised the story would be happening somewhere. >> sobering that lack of surprise there, and i would like to both have a chance to respond to that and i tell you, all of these witnesses, what role will they ultimately play as this is

prosecuted? >> if it is prosecuted, that is if he survives. first, this is the point of terrorism. rampage shootings like this are 2% to 3% of all of the shootings in this country, but they are terrorists in the sense that they fill with terror anybody and everybody who thinks this could be us. this could be our community. if he survives is, then the question will be, i think of this from the federal point of view and the bureau and are we looking at a hate crime and a crime potentially for the deat penalty and there will be the neighbors who say he's so quiet, et cetera, and he'll want to know about the community that he plays a part of and what sort of as jim was saying kind of warnings, bread crumbs that i'm going to be doing this, this guy could have left and the very sad question of should he have gotten that gun and should the

warning signs have been apparent and were they even apparent to some people in his immediate community? >> so one of the things we keep hearing over and over again from investigators is that this is a two-pronged investigation. there is both the ongoing man hunt. there is also the criminal investigation. the fbi has opened a tip line. they are collecting information. that information is information, harry. they want to use right now. i take your point about the if. if there is a prosecution in this case, but if there is, how will all of that information -- how will all of that data factor in? >> i'm sorry, harry. hold that thought, harry because i believe the presser is beginning. >> as you know an active investigation continues into the shooting of the highland park fourth of july parade. the parade route in downtown highland park and the central business districts remain an active crime scene. therefore we highly recommend that individuals living in this area to continue to shelter in place. this area entails green bay road to laurel avenue to st. john's

avenue to elm place. the investigation and moat law enforcement personnel are focussed in this area. individuals outside of this area no longer need to shelter in place. however, we urge everyone and anyone to remain vigilant and they immediately report any suspicious behavior in the community. the lake county coroner is on scene assisting with the investigation. highland park police are collaborating with the lake county major crime task force, the fbi, the illinois state police, county and local law enforcement agencies throughout our area. while no one is in custody at this time, a very active apprehension effort is currently under way. individuals with knowledge of the incidents, persons of interests including photo or video evidence from the scene or area are encouraged to share them with the fbi by calling 1-800-call-fbi. that's 1-800-call-fbi.

regular updates are also being posted on the city website at www.cityhpil.com. thank you. >> coroner? >> my name is jennifer banikc. bravo, november, alpha, kilo. i'm calling on the coroner investigation. so far there are five dead on the scene. those decedents have been identified and we are working on notification for those families. there is one additional decentent that was taken to a local hospital. thank you. >> all right. again, very active investigation and we'll try to answer questions we can without negatively impacting the investigation and our federal partners are making significant progress so we're moving forward and that's where we are right now. [ inaudible question ]

>> the gun is certainly being heavily investigated by the atf, our federal partners and we are working on that aspect. [ inaudible question ] >> right now what we're saying it's a high-powered rifle and beyond that i won't go into much more. eventually we will. when we feel comfortable giving out information without putting information we don't want out there we will put that out. [ inaudible question ] >> yes. [ inaudible question ] >> i can tell you that the decedents on scene were adults. >> thank you. >> my name is joe shragi and i'm the city chief for the city of highland park. on scene, we transported ten to

highland park hospital, six to lake forest hospital and then seven to evanston hospital. >> in addition to that, there were walk-ins at different hospitals. people did self-transport and drove themselves so the numbers are higher than the transports by fire. [ inaudible question ] >> i can't get into that just yet. [ inaudible question ] >> at this time we have no indication to believe there was more than one, however, we are only hours after this occurred so we don't want to set our narrow in and we want to be very broad and look at this in totality. >> right now there are six on the scene. [ inaudible question ] >> so primarily the s.w.a.t. teams and what they are doing is they've been evacuating people out of the buildings that have been in that contained radius

should the individual still be there and that is their primary focus at this point. >> i just want to clarify the number of those who are deceased. five deceased and all were adults and is there one -- >> there were five on the scene and they were all adults, and then there was one that was transported to a local hospital that also died at the hospital. i don't have any additional information on that victim. >> including their age? >> not right now. [ inaudible question ] >> perimeter. >> perimeter streets. >> currently, we have an active crime scene in our central business district, the perimeter is green bay road to laurel avenue to st. john's avenue to elm place, and we have police personnel in that area continuing in the investigation and clearing businesses and buildings. [ inaudible question ]

>> some people chose to shelter in place and continue to do so. we are working with our law enforcement teams in that area to evacuate them. the highland park police department is the reunification site for family and friends. if anyone is missing anyone or there are any separated parties they can be directed to the highland park police department and that is located at highland park, 60035. [ inaudible question ] >> that's correct. that's correct. there is a heavy police presence in the area in the community right now. >> at least one of those was a child. >> i don't know, whether or not we transported, but do not know the outcome.

when they were transported they were critically injured. >> all of them or just the child? >> just the child. no, i was not given the age range. i'm sorry. >> but it was the child? >> yes. [ inaudible question ] >> so they were gunshot wounds and it varied from abdomen to limbs and such, but the crews were on scene very quickly. there were bystanders at well that rendered aid, as well and they were quick to tie tourniquets and do bleeding control which definitely assisted the fire department on scene. [ inaudible question ] >> commander? >> i'm sorry, repeat the question? [ inaudible question ] >> it was very quick. the gun fire was recognized in the area. police units were already on scene for the parade in addition

to fire personnel. so it took, it was very expeditious and it was pretty quick and then the offender had fled the scene. >> do you have any idea how many shots were fired? >> i have no idea at this time. numerous is all i can tell. [ inaudible question ] >> yes. highland park police department have a high level of training and we hifrtorricly and currently will train in rapid deployment and rapid despons and rendering aid is a priority for our agency and that was done quickly and we were able to get medical personnel in quickly to evacuated wounded party and using police vehicles in addition to fire department vehicles and many people sheltserred, too. >> just touching on that question. there is a high level of training for all agencies in lake county and you will hear accounts of how quickly highland

park police department responded and did exactly what they were supposed to do, but right now we want to focus on the victims and ensure that we're catching the offender. [ inaudible question ] >> so the roof was a business, and it looks like access to the roof via ladder in an alley was unsecure. >> fire escape? >> a ladder that's attached to the building. >> all right. we can take two more. [ inaudible question ] >> that's what we're still working on determining. we've had dozens of police canines out here, drones and other technology that we're using to locate and see if it can assist us in the investigation. >> any details on the suspect description or vehicle description? >> not at this time. the initial description does stand.

all right. we'll shoot for about 4:15 for the next briefing. thank you. >> all right. that latest update from officials in highland park where a gunman has killed six, injured at least two dozen and the suspect is still not in custody and officials describe a very active apprehension effort. let's bring in frank figliuzzi and former assistant fbi director for counterintelligence and msnbc security analyst. what have you heard about where this investigation stand it is. >> well, we got our answer with the question access to the roof. the shooter was up on a roof and number two it was the roof of a business and he accessed it as you heard through a ladder with a ladder that was attached to the building. so not a break-in. didn't have to break in apparently, and likely cased the place in advance. found that there was a business

that had easy access to a locker -- excuse me, a ladder that was not secure and thanks his choice. we heard more about the vast majority of the victims, at least the deceased on scene being adults. so he seemed to not be targeting kids in the high school marching band although we did hear there was a child transported to a hospital in critical condition. i think the continued appeal to the public here was made again. this is going to be crucial, and i would add to that, alicia, since we're in such close proximity in time to the buffalo shooter and to the uvalde school shooting, both involving the 18 to 20-year-old critical age group that this could be a copycat. we don't know that yet, but even on a subconscious level, that may have prompted this action. why is that important for the party to understand? because if, indeed, you're thinking of calling in with a concern and it includes someone

who was fixated on the buffalo shooting and/or the uvalde school shooting. that would be an additional reason to call in now to that tip line, to the police and the fbi and say, look, i know somebody who fits this description and he was fixated on these two shootings, researching it, talking about it. so again, something to be focused on in terms of public appeal. >> frank, let me ask you about something that we heard at the top of the press briefing which is the area of focus when it comes to sheltering in place has narrowed. >> what does that piece of information tell you? >> we heard that swatches are actually helping to rescue people extract them. you can imagine the agony and we've heard this before in shootings like this. you don't know what's going on and you're sheltering and you've heard the gun shots and you don't know if it's safe to come out and you don't know if the shooter is very near you, so if

you're waiting for that law enforcement to come get you out. the fact that they have focused down on a certain area means they've cleared other businesses and they cleared after business and if there are residences and multiple floors and they've cleared much of the street it sounds like and they're down to a smaller area where they're finally getting to people and imagine we're at the four-hour mark, alicia. have people been hunkered down wondering, anxiety, panic attacks. am i safe? when am i going to be rescued is the knock on the door the s.w.a.t. team or is it the shooter? all of this is agonizing and i'm sure we'll hear that from those sheltering in place. >> let's bring in frank cavanaugh, retired atf special agent in charge, jim, your thought soss what we heard from that press conference? >> it sounds like they're doing

everything right. they brought out the lake county public information officials and the fire department office and they're giving quick and complete briefings to the public. this is professional law enforcement and this is what needs to happen and if they can roll out some other information that would help the public leverage maybe the identity of this guy, i'd say they already have some suspects. they already have some leads. they're flushing those out. that's not seen to us because that's far okay,field from there, alicia, but they've got some of that already and they're trying to center on dfferent aspects and was the parade ever threatened and they're picking that all through right now and they're running on strong adrenaline now and they're rung running six hours into the case and frank can tell you this is a high energy time and the

resources are there and you've got plenty of people to do the work, what you've got to do is keep that team intact and embrace that help from the city, the county, the state and the keep them all together and work them as a unit to find out and stop the killing. some little tidbit is going to turn the chase, a call, hey, i think this could have been my cousin. i heard this guy talk about a threat like this, that description looks like someone i know. i think it's my ex-boyfriend. you can get all kinds of tips like that and as has happened in other shootings, newtown where lanza killed his mother before he killed his kids in the school and even in uvalde where the shooter shot his grandmother in the face before he killed the shooting. this guy could have done something similar in his home, killed someone, stole the rifle and stole his parents' rifle.

these young people sometimes their grandparents, they kill them and then steal their rifle and all of these are possibilities and they could unravel the case. so when somethingness unexpected and the police are called even in another county or state and some lead develops once it goes into the joint operation center in highland park it gets plugged into the lead tracking system that fbi and atf use and i'm sure they're leveraging that today and they're trying to set that stuff up and then they make thur they're followed and the dna and the swabs and the rifle. this could be very good to match the case and for the prosecution, you had harry littman on and he was excellent given the pros cure the's view of all of this and the commanders that on a day like this we have to be conscious of everything for the prosecution, but the first thing on our mind is to catch the guy to stop

future killing and the prosecutors, you know, they are always focused on, too. we have to win this in the court and when you hold a rifle to your chin to shoot at a distance which this guy would be doing to the roof on to a slow-moving parade, pressed against his chin. you're sweating and it's the fourth of july. you cannot be sweating. you're sweating and your sweat is all over the bump stock of that rifle and that's your dna, and your hands are sweaty and they're going to be all over that, that's your dna and likely fingerprints not only on the rifle, but on the cartridges and on the magazines and on spare magazine mags, you night have left with the rifle and they didn't tell us. he could have left other paraphernalia and ammo locks and all of that's those magazines and the rifle can be triesed if it's a serial number and even if he tried to obliterate with the

number and get to the underent trace and get to the last purchaser. even if it's stolen we can go to the agents and investigating the theft case, and we ask do you have suspects in the theft? sometimes we can work it back to the killer even if it was stolen. we have a whole lot of evidence to work with forensically and if you can match it with a tip, hey, i think it was joe. joe was in the military and we can get his fingerprints, so joe lived here and maybe we can get a familiar dna and his dna could be that it would bring you closer. so there's a lot going on here today that they have to exploit. >> jim, let me ask you on the question of the gun. once again, we heard officials reiterating that it was a high-powered rifle, but they did not want to give more details. why would that be? >> i don't know why they're being so sensitive about that and i don't think it really would hurt the killer knows what

the rifle is, and so you know, i don't think it's really something that they really need to hold, but they would have a reason at the moment and maybe they'll release it later. i would say it's probably going to be a magazine-fed rifle or a bolt-action rifle or a bolt-action hunting rifle they can kill with a high-powered cartridge at a distance, but you have to work the bolt constantly, so the people would have timed to run away, and if it's a semiautomatic rifle and you just pull the trigger as fast as you can to normally have at least a 30-round magazine and there were a lot of rounds fired and we have six dead and 24 people wounded. we don't know how many of those are gun fire and how many are other injuries and how many are falling and tripping and stampeded on and many of those are also wounded by gun fire. some of them may have fired at

least one full magazine, you know, into the crowd. that's 30 rounds normally. it could be more and it could be a bigger magazine and it could be two 15-round magazines or something like that, but the police on duty and the uniformed police at the parade should they r respondedic requestly? >> he didn't want to have stayed on the police and shot it out with the police and when the police came up the ladder he could have shot it out with the police so he left the riefrl and he escaped. that's an interesting aspect of the event, as well. i think it goes to thinking about who this killer is, why he did this. >> it's very selective and for him to find a building where he can get on the roof outside of a parade and he can shoot at a certain group in that parade or anybody in that particular parade and there's a lot going

on in the killer's mind that as it unravels for the commanders can help them toward who it could be or who they might look at and does it match? is there anyone that we think might do this? they can put the pieces together as they go. >> i want to hear harry littman and i would like to hear from you on the forensics of this gun and if there is a prosecution that can then play in? >> well, they'll find out how he got it -- look, as you said before and as jim said, the number one goal now is finding this guy, but we're in a pretty small and squeezing sort of man hunt situation. i'd be surprised if he's not caught. again, dead or alive by, say, midnight their time. if he is and he is alive there's the potential of the assault rifle charges and the bigger

will be the murderers themselves, but they hold them he's dangerous knowing that he left behind his rifle and that is believing there are other weapons in tow. about other weapons, half of them, once he's caught it's different, but the ones that concern as jim was just talking about, maybe it's this guy or that guy, and i suspect by the way, speculation, but that he's not from highland park. he's a pretty distinctionive guy in description, small, long, black hair. i think if people in highland park knew of somebody in that description they'd be coming forward quickly, but most of these tips now are about finding the guy and stopping the guy. a few of them could turn out to be valuable for prosecuting the guy, but once they get him there will be such a wealth of other evidence to prosecute him and

the main thing is not to do anything that would trip up potential prosecution for legal reasons down the line. >> right. and if he is not a resident of this town we come back to this question as frank said earlier of what the nexus is between the shooter and this town. for those of you who are just joining us, i do want to bring you into the presser that we just heard about 20 minutes ago, updates there. no one in custody and an active apprehension under way. one additional person taken to the local hospital who died there. those who died on the scene all adults. we do not have details yet on the person who died en route to the hospital. the gun, we are told, being heavily investigated. this is an active crime scene in the central business district. harry, given all of those updates, what strikes you about the state of this investigation? >> well, that it's feverish and physical. i think the main thing they're

doing. first of all, the wheat to chaff ratio is huge and people are trying madly to sift through it and i really think it's first and foremost a physical crime scene, almost an urban equivalent of someone talking a hundreds of cops going room to room, floor by floor, just seems very hard that he could get away. so, all this other stuff, necessary, but i think it's all likely to be -- to be less -- to produce the guy, which is what they want now, than the real physical shoe leather, one foot in front of the other, with hundreds of cops on the ground. >> i believe we still have frank figliuzzi with us and frank, if you are still with us, i have a question for you, which is, we know we're going to hear another press conference from officials about 5:15, my time, 4:15 in chicago. what is it you still want to hear from them?

what are the pieces of information that are currently missing? >> yeah, so, first, i want to echo jim's comments with regard to the professionalism we're seeing in how this is being handled and you can see the difference between a major metropolitan area, the greater chicago area, and the way they're trained and the way they're handling press conferences, giving out what needs to be given out and not saying what they shouldn't say. and the massive response here. and it's sad but true that it does matter in america where you live in terms of the professional response and the speed with which someone could be apprehended, but look, i would not be surprised if, at the next press conference or the one after that, and i hope this is true, that we're able to see either a still image or a video released -- a decision made by the police that if they've got something good, if they've found a still image or a video from security cameras or from public iphone or cell phone cameras, that they think is a person of

interest, that they give it out. the public is going to help solve this case. and you saw even in the boston marathon bombing, eventually, you saw photos and videos released. we think this is the guy, the guys. we saw ball caps, i remember, backpack, et cetera. let's look for that to happen. that's a sign that they're ready to go public with what they have. >> in addition to the press conference that we're expecting add 5:15, we are also expecting to hear from president biden around 5:00. joining us now, nbc news senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell. kelly, what are you hearing from the white house? >> reporter: well, at this point, the president has released a written statement, and he says that he and the first lady are shocked by this senseless gun violence. he talked about the fact that he reached out by phone to speak to the illinois governor and the mayor of highland park and offered his support and any federal resources, and that includes help with the investigation and help in the search for the gunman here in this case. and so, the president providing

that kind of support that we would typically see when a community is hit by something that goes beyond what their own resources can typically handle. so, we have had that. and he also acknowledged the reality that he has just signed new gun legislation within the last couple of weeks, and it's the first time any kind of measure related to gun safety has been passed in this country in about 30 years, and yet, that has not been sufficient to stop what happened today at this highland park parade, and we know that there are elements of that new law that are just now in effect, and that change is beginning to take place in terms of a new requirement for background checks for young gun buyers, 18 to 21, new resources for mental health, and for school safety. and so forth. and we often look at these situations and say, could this particular event have been prevented by any of the measures that have been contemplated or

now passed into law? we don't know the answers to that yet because there are still so many questions about what happened. the president is hosting an event on the south lawn. there's a big barbecue going on for military families, and he is expected to appear on camera and to speak at that event, and that was intended to be a message of the fourth of july holiday and thanking them for their service, but it could also be an opportunity for the president to speak to this issue. and then separately, in los angeles, the vice president was just stopping by to see some first responders and spoke to reporters who were with her, and she said she's been in coordination with the president about those resources going to the highland park community, and she is scheduled to go to chicago tomorrow. an unrelated event. she indicated she still plans to go to address educators there, and of course, so many times, when there are mass shootings, a school is involved, and that will really resonate with the group she's going to see

tomorrow. that's the latest we have here from the white house. >> kelly, you paraphrased the statement from the president on the shooting in highland park, illinois, but i want to read the bottom of the statement. it says, "i recently signed the first major bipartisan gun reform legislation in almost 30 years into law, which includes actions that will save lives, but there is much more work to do and i'm not going to give up fighting the epidemic of gun violence." kelly, i have about a minute left but i'm sure it is not lost on the white house, the contrast between what is unfolding in highland park and the day that we are supposed to be celebrating as a nation. >> absolutely. and certainly, the president has advocated for stricter measures that were not able to pass through congress as it is constituted right now. and so, the work goes on. and certainly, at a time when families and communities celebrate independence, having a tragedy take lives that affect so many lives is certainly something that is painful and poignant and brings into focus,

again, what are the limits of what government can do to try to change these and prevent these situations, and what more can communities do? and there are a lot of unanswered questions as authorities on the ground there in highland park are still trying to sort through what is still a very fresh incident of terrible loss and a lot of questions. alicia? >> very fresh, many questions remain, kelly o'donnell, frank figliuzzi, harry litman, thank you so much. jim cavanaugh is sticking around and we are continuing our breaking news coverage of a deadly mass shooting at a fourth of july parade in highland park, illinois. we're going to fit in a quick break. illinois we're going to fit in a quick break.

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for all of life's moments get the brands you trust to get the job done at wayfair. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ hi, everyone, it is 5:00 in new york. i'm alicia menendez in for nicole wallace, continuing our breaking news coverage of the shooting at a july 4th parade earlier today in highland park, illinois. a suburb of chicago. right now, an event at the white house has begun where the president and first lady are celebrating july 4th with military families. if the president addresses the shooting, we will bring you those remarks. but here's what we know at this moment about what took place in highland park. six people are dead, two dozen are seriously injured, including at least one child. the search for the suspect still under way. police officials describing the suspect as a white man, approximately 18 to 20 years old, with long black hair wearing a white or blue shirt. the citizens of highland park

urged to shelter in place as the suspect is still considered armed and dangerous. officials say it appears the suspect shot from a rooftop, which he accessed from a ladder attached to the building. and that is where he left behind what they described as a high-powered rifle. we expect to hear another briefing from local law enforcement in about 15 minutes. let's bring in nbc news investigations correspondent tom winter. tom, what is the latest on the investigation under way? >> the latest is that there's an urgent manhunt for somebody who at approximately 11:14 eastern time this morning walked up to a fourth of july parade with local schools marching and playing patriotic music, parents and kids in the crowd, and opened fire. and there is a real desperate attempt to find this individual at this time, take them into custody. couple things that are going to be important here. first off, that weapon that he left behind. that's usually not something that happens at a shooting scene when you talk to law enforcement experts, so the fact that he

left that behind could provide a couple of different things. one, clues such as fingerprints on that weapon. two, the serial number, which is unique for every single firearm legally sold in america, what is that serial number, and can it be matched to a purchase, who made that purchase. is it the person who carried out today's shooting? so, that's going to be very helpful. there's other information that's going to be helpful, such as the cell phones that were on the towers at that time. they can presumably download a series of phone numbers that were on that. some of those are going to belong to the victims. some of are those are going to belong to the bystanders but if that shooter was carrying a cell phone, then one of those numbers is going to belong to him. and you laid out the description perfectly. white male, somewhere bween 18 to 20 year age, kind of a small build, long black hair, and either a white or blue t-shirt he was having at the -- he was wearing, excuse me, on his person at the time. so, that's what we know.

we know that there is a number of law enforcement activity in the greater highland park area, in the greater chicago area, but right now, we know that baseball games slated for tonight is going to continue in east chicago and haven't heard of any specific threats to that city. so hopefully this is something that can be resolved soon. obviously want to know if this individual has any other plans to do something today and why they did what they did. it was reported earlier today, the community is predominantly jewish, but at this stage in the investigation, it's important to say this, at this stage of the investigation, we don't have any idea as to the specific motive of this, and there's no indication that there's any sort of hate or bias crime here, but we'll be following this investigation shortly. >> tom, you opened your report to us by talking about the weapon that was left behind. i have noticed, i am sure you have too, that every time we have heard a press conference

from local officials, they have been very careful to characterize this as a high-power rifle but not to add any more detail, and i wonder if you have a sense of why it is that they are being so careful about the description of the weapon in this case. >> i can think of a couple different reasons, and i can think of a couple reasons that probably don't want to assist the person who tried to flee from this terrible shooting, but generally speaking, sometimes they want to make sure that their -- that level of detail is incredibly specific, and i think when you have a fast-moving investigation and a chaotic scene, you don't want to make a mistake when press conferences are given and the incorrect information is put out, and it's later found to be something different. i think law enforcement feels like that can be something that can damage their reputation and their credibility with the community that they serve, and so i think initially, you don't want to put out that level of

detail until you're 100% sure. but there are other reasons for the purposes of the investigation, forensically, and also for what the suspect may have dropped or their state of mind that you might not want to initially put out that information. but look, whether it's this manufacturer or that manufacturer, bottom line here is you had a high-powered rifle that says so me, it's probably an assault rifle, just based on how it's commonly referred to, and even if it's not, whatever type of rifle it is, it's going to be one that causes a lot of damage, and it's something that can be very harmful in these particular situations. i guess what i'm saying is, they're serving soup for lunch. does it necessarily matter what type of soup it is? we generally know what we're going to be -- if that makes sense. it's kind of a quickly put together analogy. >> it makes perfect sense, tom winter, thank you so much for your reporting.

we're going to continue to check in with you. joining us now, highland park resident kristen carlson. she was on the way to the parade when she heard the gunshots ring out. thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. can you tell us what you saw and what you heard? >> i was on my way to the parade route, and i was near -- i was near st. john's. that was the starting point of the parade. the parade was already under way. the shooter was on central, and so i did not see the shooter. i just saw people running and screaming, "there's a shooter, run, run." and i heard sirens. i guess in hindsight, i heard the shots. i didn't know they were shots. i just didn't know they were shots. didn't even occur to me. and then even when people started running, i didn't get it. but then you saw the terror on

their faces, and i just saw a sea of people coming at me, running. >> the terror in their faces. that says so much. in addition to that moment, there is now what you have been experiencing for the past few hours, which is the sheltering in place. can you talk to us about what that experience has been like, what it is you are waiting to hear from local officials. >> the shelter in place, well, my -- i was at my mother's house, and she lives in the 200 block of central avenue and i think the shooting took place around the 600 block, so very, very close, and we immediately went back to the house and we brought some people with us who didn't have anywhere else to go, and the police have been saying on the news not to leave because they haven't found him, so my kids quickly drove -- shut the

blinds, shut the shutters, because they were trained to do that. we all just hid in an interior room, just watching the tv, waiting for the police to tell us that it's okay to leave. but he may very well still be in the area. >> can you talk to me a little bit about the experience of processing this for yourself, while you -- i'm a mom as well, while you're also trying to process this for your kids? >> i'm really -- i'm still in shock. i'm really in disbelief. i can't believe that it happened. it's so quiet. there are no people in their backyards celebrating. i'm trying to just accept the fact that this happened in this place that i love, and i was trying to help some little kids who were separated from their families. i mean, everyone was trying to help each other, and i remember

this one story, this little boy was lost, and maybe he was, like, 7 or something, and another little boy came up to him, and said, what's your name? and he said, my name is blake. and the other little boy said, blake, run, run, and he grabbed blake's hand, and he joined up with his family, and this family took blake to safety, and so -- i'm losing my train of thought because i'm still just so very much in shock, but just little kids, scared -- oh, i know what i was going to say. the little boy who said, what's your name, he was so composed. he just knew. he knew what to do. because our kids are trained for this kind of thing. he just knew what to do. so how am i trying to process this as a mother? i'm sorry that my kids know the

drill. i'm sorry that we had to live through this, and i -- this isn't a typical chicago shooting. this is, i think, a typical american shooting, sadly. i think that's what it's come to. you just can't even go to your hometown parade without wondering if you're in danger. >> kristen, you described this place, highland park, as a place that you love. for people who are not from highland park, who have never been to highland park, what do you want them to know about your community, what your community is like on an average day? >> it's so quiet and peaceful there. and it's probably about 30 miles north of the city of chicago. it's a very safe, safe place. like, i shouldn't say this, but people don't lock their doors at night. i mean, i guess we will now.

like, i don't -- i've never been afraid there. i just have -- with really low crime and so it was just unexpected. i just didn't expect it here. >> have you been given any sense from officials since you are continuing to shelter in place, and for those who are watching, we're expecting to hear from local officials in the next five minutes or so. have you been given a sense of when you will be given -- >> no. i haven't had -- the police haven't been able to communicate to us anything that they haven't also communicated to the news. >> kristen, as you talk to friends, to family, to other

people in your community who are processing all of this, we have heard from members of your community, and we have both heard from people who said, i never thought this would happen in my town. i never thought this would happen here. and we've also heard from people who have said, i kind of knew it was a matter of time until this showed up in my own backyard. what are you hearing from the people you love, from the people in your community? >> it hasn't really come up very much. i think we're all just pretty much in shock, and what i'm waiting to hear is if my friends are okay. i know so many people who were at the parade, and just hoping that they're okay. and none of that really -- i haven't processed that. did i expect it? did i think it would happen? was it a matter of time? i don't -- i haven't really been -- my thoughts have not

been going there yet. >> of course. you are still very much in it, and i think about all of the people who you had in your backyard, the family reunification efforts that are still under way to make sure that everyone is back with their family, back with the people they love, back with the people that they were at the parade with. kristen, before i let you go, any final thoughts, anything on your mind on this day as you process what has happened? >> i'm so sorry it's come to this. i'm just so sorry that it's come to this and that this is just another shooting on a long list of mass shootings in the united states, and i'm just sorry that it's come to this and to see the little kids who knew exactly how to proceed. that broke my heart. i'll never be the same. i'll never forget that. i'll never forget that. >> kristen carlson, thank you so much for your time and for

sharing your story with us today. joining us now on the phone, former nypd commissioner and msnbc law enforcement analyst shea, also with us former republican congressman david jolly, national chairman of the serve america movement as well as an msnbc contributor, and jim cavanaugh is back with us, retired atf special agent in charge, now an msnbc terrorism analyst. dermott, what do you make of what we have heard so far, understanding that we are waiting any moment to receive an update from officials? >> the updates have been coming in from law enforcement, and i think it's important to remember that there has to be -- there is no doubt in my mind that there are facts that are being held back here. because there is not a news station in america that is not covering this story, and the criminal is watching the news as well, so there are always points, a difficult balance they walk with law enforcement, how much to put out versus how much to give away to the criminal that the manhunt is effective and closing in on that person.

but this is a case where you have -- it's interesting to me. you have the proverbial smoking gun left at the scene, and when you look at that firearm, you have to think about prosecution, and you also have to think about how can you use that firearm to catch the perpetrator? and that latter point is the most important. stopping any future violence. and it will be, probably, a story for another day, but it will be very interesting to me to watch how long it takes that gun to lead directly or indirectly to that perpetrator, and if ever there was a case that spoke to having discussions about a database of firearms, i think here we have it today. >> you know, it strikes me, david jolly, all across this country, people are celebrating with loved ones, and this shooting marks another place, another community, another event that should feel safe but was disrupted instead by horrific gun violence. how are we supposed to make sense of what happened today?

>> alicia, i think we're reminded that sometimes we naively conflate independence and our celebration of independence with that of strength and safety and somehow accomplishment because on a day in which we reflect and celebrate what was the birth of a national identity, who we are as the united states, we're reminded in 2022 that who we are as a nation that is burdened by the scourge of gun violence and by mass shootings. we know the stats come out every time we cover a mass shooting, that there are more guns in the united states per capita than anywhere else in the world, and we also know that we are burdened in a disproportionate way by mass shootings. we, as a nation, are getting this issue wrong. we're getting it wrong. so if we are to reflect today on the celebration of our national identity, part of our national identity is the tragedy that we revisit over and over again from pittsburgh to parkland, from orlando to sutherland springs to

newtown to uvalde and now to the shooting in chicago. this is who we are as a nation. and oddly, we celebrate today, who we are as a nation. but we can't overlook that that nation is one that has not solved the scourge of gun violence. we are reminded of that today in this moment. >> and that, david jolly, was reiterated by the president in his statement. as you know, the president, currently at the white house, was planning today to have a celebration, a july 4th celebration with military families. if he has remarks and they address the shooting, we'll be bringing them to you, to our audience. you can see the image there as we wait. that same sentiment, david, touched on by the governor of illinois, saying, but grief will not bring the victims back, and prayers alone will not put a stop to the terror of rampant gun violence in our country. i stand firm with illinoisans and americans. we must and we will end this plague of gun violence. the same thing echoed by senator

tammy duckworth, who says every community deserves to be safe from senseless gun violence. i'm also struck, david, we just talked with kristen carlson, who witnessed all of this unfold, talking about the fact that her children, her children who were sheltering in place with her knew exactly what to do because they have been through these drills at school, that she saw one child who wanted to reunify another kid with his family who knew exactly how to stay calm in a situation like this. what does that all tell you about the state of this country? >> alicia, there are people dead today because we have failed at our own experiment of self-governance. we have the liberty to determine our own fate, to determine our own governance, and we have chosen a path that has not solved this issue of gun violence that is unique in the united states compared to all other western countries. we can't overlook it. we can't deny it, and you can choose a partisan lens in this. i certainly have one. i know others do as well.

there are dead children in uvalde, texas. there are dead party goers, there are dead visitors to a synagogue, to a church, to a marketplace in buffalo. there are dead americans because we have failed at this experiment of gun violence, and it is weird that it happens on a day that we try to celebrate what a great nation we are. and we can look at the legislation that recently passed the congress, that joe biden spoke about today, and i think we all experienced kind of this bittersweet moment, yes, something was done. but you know, when you're starving, any scraps will be a cause for celebration. the truth is, nothing that was done in the last week prevented what we have experienced today. and without a real emergence of somewhere between common sense and conviction in this country, we will be revisiting today's events in chicago in another city, another week, months from now, and we'll be having this same conversation and asking the same questions, when honestly, it's just a reflection of our own ignorance and stupidity as a

country. we know how to solve this. other western countries have, and we haven't. >> for our viewers that are just joining us, you're going to see that image on the lower half of your screen. we are waiting for president biden. if he makes remarks involving the shooting, we're going to bring them to you. we're also expecting to get an update from officials in highland park. jim cavanaugh, what is it you are waiting to hear from investigators and officials there? >> i'd like to see them break a big lead where they can get the public to help them to locate the guy. you know, the video cameras and the businesses around that parade route, alicia, they've already been pulling that, because they have the manpower from all the agencies to do that. they're pulling that security footage. and this -- they know how he got on the roof. he went up a ladder outside the business that he was on. so, they know a little bit about his route. and they're going to try to pull those cameras, and if they can get an image of him, and they can put that out in the chicagoland area, an image of

him, they could get a tip of who he is. so, i would be hoping for some break like that this evening while everybody, the whole united states, is focused on this event. this is the time. don't wait if you have that. the police commanders -- if i was in that command post, if i was wasn't of the commanders, i would say, let's get that image out as quick as we can. now, people will call in and say, it's so and so, and it may not be them but the police will sort that out. say, somebody calls in and says, that looks like my friend, billy, and we go find billy and interview him or find out where he worked and go and find out he was working all day and we could prove he was working all day and we knew it wasn't billy, so we can eliminate people that might look like the guy. and of course, let the police handle that, not the social media. all those tips have to be vetted. but i'd be hoping for something like that to move this case along so we could interrupt the killing. and then i would be centered on

really wanting to be inside the head of the killer. everything that i think he might have been doing, so i could kind of glean what he might currently be doing or planning. you know, what is his motive? what was his motive? and alicia, i think you and i have talked about it on your show before, and the motives for violent crime, the motives that i have derived over all my years of doing this, but it's greed, power, hate, revenge, and escape, and all violent crimes fall into those giant rubrics. the motive is in there. and the motive today is in there. i would probably eliminate greed and escape pretty quick. and i would be down to hate, power, and revenge. and i think as the night wears on, as the week wears on, we're going to find the motive. we're going to -- they're going to find this killer. we're going to -- the motive is going to be uncovered for us publicly and through law enforcement, and we're going to

find that it's in there. it's in hate, power, or revenge. and it will -- one of those will come to the fore, his reason to do it, even though it may be stupid, crazy, or nonsensical. it still will be fitted into one of those rubrics, and that may give us a clearer picture of who he is, who may have helped him, why he was there, why this time, why that parade, why these victims, you know, and try to learn as much as we can. first to stop any killing, second for the prosecution, and third to stop any future events. so, those are all the big reasons that we want to know all those answers to those questions. >> dermot, we just heard something from jim cavanaugh that we had heard earlier from frank figliuzzi, which is the hope that this next press conference, which we are waiting for from officials in highland park, that there will be some images or some stills that they are able to share with us. can you, as someone who has been in these situations, pull back

the curtain for us and give us a sense of the conversations, of the debates that are happening between officials on the ground about whether or not to share the information they already have? you know, i think we actually have the medical -- we have someone from the hospital who is holding a press conference. let's take a listen. >> the mass shooting or casualty event, our team very quickly activated one of our internal messaging codes called code yellow, which is for mass casualty and trauma response to mobilize our surgical teams, to bring in other resources, and within a very short amount of time, started to receive a number of ambulances from the emergency medical services system. we received, in total, about 26 total patients, 10 of which were

transported by ambulance. during that time, in a very short amount of time, we had nearly 20 additional physicians and more than 20 additional nursing and support staff here in our emergency department as well as in other areas of the hospital to help take care of the patients that were brought in, and all of those individuals came as a result of following our protocols. we also put in an extra safety or security protocol where we locked down the hospital. hence, why we're meeting out here in the parking lot as we continue to try to maintain a very safe environment in our hospital for our patients and our staff. so, of the 26 individuals that showed up here at highland park hospital, 25 of those did sustain gunshot wound injuries. some of them were minor. some of them were much more severe, and some of those patients were in critical condition when they did arrive here to the hospital. >> any comment --

>> they were all different parts of the body, extremities as well as other more central parts of the body as well. >> do you have any specific number on what conditions those 25 are in? >> yes, so of the 25 who came in with gunshot wounds, 19 of those individuals were able to be treated and actually discharged home after they had had their full medical evaluation and treatment. several others did arrive in more serious conditions and did have to be admitted. we had one that had to be transferred over to evanston hospital under the care of our great neurosurgical team. we had a couple of other patients that needed to be admitted to our trauma surgical team, which are represented here, as well as to some of our orthopedic trauma surgeons. >> doctor, could you give us an age range of the people you treated? >> absolutely. so, the age range ranged from about 8 years old was our youngest patient, up to 85 years old. >> how many children? >> i can't give you a specific number on the number of

children, but it was definitely around four or five. >> what happens in an emergency room with that many gunshot victims coming in at once? >> we immediately have to make space for all these patients to come in and hence why i commented before how we used some internal processes to mobilize resources. our wonderful surgical and trauma staff were immediately alerted through emergency messaging that we had a number of patients that were going to need emergency medical services and their evaluation. on top of that, many other emergency physicians, pediatricians, internists, surgeons, trauma surgeons, anesthesiologists and others were also notified and mobilized to help take care of the number of patients that were coming in. >> this staff -- what is this like? to have to deal with this mass casualty event? >> listen, there's been a lot of

different events that have happened in the united states, and this obviously now has hit very close to home. it is a little surreal to have to take care of an event such as this, but all of us have gone through extensive training. we go through a number of different programs, training. we have -- we practice for these events, even though we hope they never happen. and so i think our team very admirably handled the situation today. of course, we provide services that include social work and we have others involved that our team as well as our patients will have a chance to talk to, therapists and counselors to debrief after something that is so traumatic. >> anyone has a loved one in the hospital, they need to know or have the families all been notified? >> the families have all had the opportunity to come into the hospital and wait. we had liaisons working with those family members, and all of those family members have been

reunited with the patients that were here and and treated at our north shore hospitals. >> anyone from the nursing staff that perhaps might want to talk? >> does anybody from the nursing staff want to talk? >> i'll come. >> come on up. so, this is barb, one of our emergency medicine nurses. she also does a number of administrative roles here at north shore, and has a wealth of experience. >> good afternoon. >> tell us what it was like for the nurses. >> so, we have an amazing team of nurses who every day give 1,000% of their time and talent to their profession. they all immediately go into emergency mode, and they're all -- they are trained in trauma and pediatric care as well. they have extensive training. they are amazing people. they showed their proof in covid, and now with this absolutely upsetting and tragic mass shooting, they were the -- they came to the call to duty.

they were fantastic. multinurses taking care of one patient at a time because there's family members, emotional support is needed, advanced trauma care, advanced emergency care, ems personnel, so amazing squad of nurses. very proud of them. i'm very, very thrilled to call them my colleagues. >> yes. >> you said 26 patients were taken here, 25 had gunshot wounds. and then 19 were discharged. but one person -- >> yeah, so, actually, we had one person -- two, actually, two patients that were transferred to evanston, to get further care and our inpatient pediatric unit is at evanston. we had another patient transferred to skokie hospital, our orthopedic specialty hospital, and another patient transferred to comber children's

hospital after getting emergency surgery. i would like to add our nursing staff are phenomenal, but the gentlemen and ladies that stand behind me provided amazing emergency surgical and orthopedic care. with me is dr. talamote and dr. andy egos who helps run our trauma surgery program and the response they made, the time in which they arrived to help support and take care of these patients was absolutely phenomenal. >> doctor, can we speak to you for a moment? >> sure. >> you were off site when the initial call came in? >> yes. >> tell me what happened. >> i got a text message that there had been a mass shooting in highland park, and could i call highland park hospital, which i did, and talked to the chief of surgery there, john lynn, who was actually out of town but got the first call. and when i heard that there was a mass shooting, i made sure that we had a full trauma team. >> we're going to bring you now to the white house where we're

expecting remarks from president biden. >> good evening, my fellow americans. today, we mark the 246th anniversary of our independence as a nation, and recommit ourselves to the great experiment of america. while the events of 1776 were a moment in time, their meaning is real and vivid and continually unfolding. don't worry, we got babies at home. it's okay. children are allowed to cry. for america's always becoming, always on the move, always a work in progress. that's the keyword or key idea, keynote in the life of our nation. progress. forward motion. the creation of possibilities, a fulfillment of promises. that's the american story. and you all know well it's not a simple one. it never has been.

it's often been the case that after we've taken giant steps forward, we've taken a few steps backwards, and after doing the hard work of laying the foundation of a better future, the worst of our past has reached out and pulled us back on occasion. but i know this. from the deepest depths of our worst crises, we've always risen to our high heights. we've always come out better than when we went in. we've been tested before, just as we're being tested today, but we've never failed because we have never walked away from the core beliefs and promises that define this nation. chief among those promises is the proposition that we are all created equal. we say that so often from the time you're a kid in school, sometimes we wonder if it's just rhetoric. but that's -- we're an idea. the only country based on an

idea, not geography, not religion, not ethnicity, but an idea. we're all created equal. the laws are instituted among people to protect the vulnerable, to check those with power, and to guarantee the pursuit of justice, and to realize these promises requires a principled patriotism, a patriotism that recognizes that no person, no party, no interest can take precedent over the american project. project that has come up short in many ways but which continues even in this hour, a project that says, we're all in this together and the ambitions of a few cannot be allowed to prevail over the aspirations of the many. that's how i see america on july 4th, as big and a big-hearted place where we debate and

disagree, yet we're united by a love of country and as it's been before in our history, in times of war and division, of growth and change, a fourth of july comes at a critical moment. our economy's growing but not without pain. liberty is under assault, both here and abroad. in recent days, there's been reason to think that this country is moving backwards, that freedom is being reduced, that rights we assumed were protected are no longer. a reminder that we main in an ongoing battle for the soul of america as we have for over 200 years. i know it can be exhausting and unsettling, but tonight, i want you to know we're going to get through all of this. for all that we have faced, that we are going to get through this and look how far we've come.

we're reclaiming our way of life in a pandemic. vaccines are nearly available to every american. restrictions lifted, the fourth of july, together again at the white house. and for all the challenges, america has the strongest economy in the world. more people working and starting businesses. more young people graduating from high school and college than ever before. i just returned from an important trip, the military will understand, to europe, the nato meeting. we're relying on what we can do to rally the free world to defend freedom. before i left for europe, i signed a law, the first real gun safety law in 30 years. and things will get better still but not without more hard work together. y'all heard what happened. y'all heard what happened today.

but each day, we're reminded, there's nothing guaranteed about our democracy. nothing guaranteed about our way of life. we have to fight for it, defend it, and earn it by voting to refine, evolve, and extend the calling of america to move forward boldly and unafraid, and this day reminds us of what brought us together long ago, what binds us still and at our best, what we strive for. it's we, the people. not a hollow phrase in america. we, the people, doing all we can to ensure that the idea of america, the cause of freedom and justice and equality, does more than survive the divisions of our time, but that it shines like the sun to light up the future of our world. i know -- i know we can do this. i know many americans look

around today and see a divided country and are deeply worried about that fact. i understand. but i believe we're more united than we are divided. even more, i believe it's a choice we make, and i believe it's within our power to choose unity and unity of purpose. as i look out tonight here at the white house, i see so many military families who understand the essential american truth. it's the greatest honor to serve as your commander in chief, and jill and i are humbled to be with you tonight. tomorrow, we'll be bestowing the medal of honor, the highest military award to heroic service members who represent the best of america. the backbone, the sinew, the spine of america. and on thursday, i'll bestow the presidential medal of freedom, the highest civilian award, to

extraordinary americans who embody and endure the enduring character of this nation. all of them, all of you, are reminders that we're a great nation because we're a good people. it's because of you i've never been more optimistic about america than i am today. an optimism that digs deep, never gives up. that's america. that's america. so, on this day, amid the storm and strife, may we commit ourselves to a principled patriotism. for the large and complex mission to protect and make a more perfect our union, make real the declaration of our independence and ensure that america is a place not marked by the thirst for power at any cost, but by a covenant of trust and hope and promise. happy fourth of july, america. may god bless america, and may

god protect our troops. enjoy the day. enjoy. thank you, thank you, thank you. thanks. i just met your son. >> there you have the president of the united states meeting with military families on this fourth of july. as a reminder to our audience, we are still waiting for an additional press conference coming from highland park officials. i want to bring in congressman jones of new york. congressman, you just heard the president speak to the power of our democracy, to the american way of life, calling this country a work in progress. your thoughts? >> well, i thought the president sounded the right note, alicia. the fact is, there are divisions in this country, but at the same time, i couldn't help but think to myself, the divisions that americans see in congress don't quite translate to what the american people feel.

when you look at the polling, the american people support, broadly speaking, gun reforms like bans on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, raising the age to purchase semiautomatic rifles to 21, and of course enacting universal background checks. and so, what i would have also liked for the president to have spoken to is the fact that we've got one major political party, specifically the republican party in this country, that is keeping congress from saving lives, like what we just saw today in highland park. in addition to blocking fundamental rights, like what we saw the supreme court deprive the american people of over the past week. >> congressman, you and i have sat at this table and we have talked about this notion of freedom. we have talked about it in the context of gun safety. we could talk about it in the context of roe vs. wade. as you watched what unfolded today on a day that is ostensibly, for many americans, about the celebration of

freedom, how do you square the aspirations of this country with where we find ourselves today? >> well, i think back to what frederick douglass spoke to more than a century ago when he said, what, to the slave, is the fourth of july? so much of what we aspire to as this great nation is stuff that is unfulfilled. when we talk about a true multiracial democracy, when we talk about freedom from gun violence, when we talk about fundamental rights like abortion, and of course the right to live on a livable planet moving forward, which is something that the supreme court just made less likely with its decision regarding the epa a few days ago, these are things that we are still working towards. we've still got to bend that arc of the moral universe towards justice, and that takes courage. it takes political courage. it takes speaking truth to power. it takes drawing on the experiences of those who came

before us. i'm reminded of john lewis's generation facing longer odds than the ones that we face today, so i see my work as someone in congress as being that of someone who is going to move forward and take on these big fights, because that is what is going to be required. these are horrifying times, as you know, alicia, and they were horrifying even before today, given what we just observed over the past week alone. we need people who are going to fight tooth and nail for the things that we say we believe in as americans. >> you know, it strikes me, listening to the mayor of highland park earlier today, talking about how her community was terrorized, that the community is struggling with the terror brought upon us. the word "terror," congressman, used over and over again. also hearing from witnesses who are now sheltering in place with their children and having to process the fact that their children know exactly what to do because their children have been practicing these drills in schools, these active shooter drills, you know, since they were very young. i myself have a daughter who comes home and talks to me about the drills that she practices at

school. you know, you and i are about the same age. we didn't do those drills when you or i were in school. that terror that has become so real for so many of our young americans, increasingly real for americans writ large, what do you say to americans who feel terrified and terrorized by the country that they live in? >> i would start by saying that i know that fear, and i know that pain. i was 11 years old when columbine happened, and i never thought that mass shootings would become the norm in this country, as horrified as i was at that moment in time. as you heard earlier from your guests, this is a uniquely american problem, and yet it is something that we have the tools to be able to solve, if only folks summoned the political courage and we held our elected officials accountable, and so what i would say is that i share in the fear and frankly the disappointment and the anger and the outrage towards people who

should know better, and i'm now talking about a number of my colleagues in the united states congress who know what legislation is required to stop these -- to stop this crisis and to stop the epidemic of gun violence in this country. and so, what i would say to them is that they've got to keep believing in this great nation, the capacity of this country to be better than what it is today. and through the lessons of history, we know that we can achieve a brighter future. i share in the president's optimism about the future of this country, but i know that it's not going to happen overnight, and i know that it's not going to happen just because people wish it to happen. we've got to make sure that we are holding people accountable, and that means, i've just got to say this, that means that we got to get rid of the filibuster to pass this legislation, because my republican colleagues, when it comes to fighting the end gun violence in this country, as proud as i was to just pass the bipartisan safer communities act, i know that we've got to go much further than that, and that means we've got to get rid of

the filibuster by picking up just a handful more democratic senate seats and we've got to talk openly about what the plan is because we've got to give people the confidence in us that if they do come out to vote in november, that they will see a material change. it's shameful that senators sinema and manchin aren't willing to do this right now with respect to getting rid of the filibuster but we've got to pick up two more democratic seats this fall and keep our majority and we can build a world in which the united states of america is free of gun violence. >> congressman mondaire jones, thank you so much. joining our coverage, julian castro, former mayor of san antonio, now an msnbc contributor. you know, i have to ask you, secretary, you were a mayor of a town, you have experienced sort of what it is like to have to deal with a tragedy. your thoughts as you watch what is unfolding in highland park? >> well, this can happen anywhere, alicia. you know, when i hear folks from

highland park who expressed surprise, it is, you know, surprising in that town, because they don't have a lot of crime. but you know, we heard that just five weeks ago in uvalde. you heard it in sutherland springs, texas, when a gunman went into a church and killed a couple dozen people. it can happen anywhere in this country. it's also the case that this is who we are now in america in 2022, but this isn't who we've always been. there was a time when we had an assault weapons ban, where we saw these kinds of incidents plummet. it wasn't always the case that people could get these weapons of war that make it so easy for somebody to get up on that rooftop in highland park and to, within seconds, wound 24 people and to kill several people. maybe more importantly, and i think this is what the president was getting at in his remarks,

it isn't who we have to be going forward. we can use the tools of our democracy to change this if, as representative jones says, points out, we're also bold enough to make some reforms that we need to make to catch up to the year 2022 and how we govern ourselves. if there's optimism today, i think that's where it is. that we have the tools at our disposal to change this if we have the will power to change it. >> and as a reminder to our viewers, we are still waiting for an update from a press conference from officials in highland park, while i have you, secretary castro, it strikes me that the plan today, you and i were going to sit here and talk about january 6th commission, talk about the existential threats to our democracy, and instead, we're talking about a different existential threat to our country, and i wonder what it is that you see as the throughline to the many stories we could be sit hearing talking

about today. >> well, i see one of the throughlines that you have a very committed and extremist minority that is blocking, really, the will of the majority of the people that is a reasonable, grounded majority of our country, in this case, on this issue, that wants universal background checks, that wants common sense gun reforms, that wants to raise the age when somebody can get one of these weapons of war from 18 to 21 as a basic measure. you know, i think about that type of extremism that's blocking these types of common sense measures, and the extremism that led to the january 6th events that the january 6th committee has been investigating and highlighting. you know, they're not exactly the same thing. i wouldn't put those -- the idea of defending second amendment rights, as they call it from afar, and the people who went

into the capitol in the same boat. what i would say, though, is that there is an extremism in this country, and they have too loud of a voice, especially in our federal government, and more and more in state legislatures that are blocking reasonable steps that can make our country safer for everyone and more saf for everyone and more representative of a diverse and growing america. >> julian castro, as always, thank you so much for spending time with us. former chief of homeland security and intelligence for washington, d.c. what has struck you about this investigation thus far? >> well, the investigation is still unfolding. what struck me is, a, the professionalism of the local law enforcement coming out in front, giving as much information as they can, being very clear about this. the other things that have struck me is the fact that this person's still on the run. so this is clearly a planned operation. this individual, at least from the tradecraft that i can see,

planned out the high ground, where they were going to be sniping from, and made their escape for hours and some of the best law enforcement that we can see, state police and fbi. so what draws really a comparison between what we've seen in this incident and some of the others is the fact that people are still out there enjoying their day, the activities planned, and people are concerned. they don't know how far this individual could have gotten in three or four hours. they don't know if this is part of a larger, more evolving conspiracy with other individuals or if he's just a lone actor. and so there's a lot of unanswered questions. law enforcement's working really hard to apprehend this individual, to find evidence

>> at the previous press conference they called this an active apprehension effort. give us a sense of what that looks like. >> what it looks like is door to door,e house to house searches cordons, road blocks. cars getting checked. checked.als getting people being on lockdown or shelter in place orders. tightening the perimeter of where this individual could be. it looksl at social media and intelligence in finding out probably where the whereabouts of this individual may be as well as looking a in highland park. >> through law community information and leads a person of interest has been identified. his name is robert bobby e.crimo, c-r-i-m-o, iii.

he is 22 years of age. he is believed to be driving a 2010 silver honda fit vehicle, license plate illinois d david m mary d80653. we have numerous federal, state andwe local law enforcement agencies working on apprehending this person of interest. we continue to receive tips from the public and lawt. enforcemen partners, and we are following up on every one of them. individuals who have information to share with the police are urged to contact 1-800-call-fbi. thank you. >> quickly try to answer some questions. please understand that we have teams out very actively trying to apprehend this individual. he is considered armed and dangerous. the community should not approach him.da if they see him, see his whereabouts, see the vehicle, dial 911. we are considering him very dangerous. >> what led you to this imman's name?d s >> i can't get into that yet, but investigative leads have led

us to this point. >> at this time we're just going to give you the a name and licee plate information. we're concernede about everybody's safety. so robert e. crimo, c-r-i-m-o, iii. 22 years of age. believed to be driving a 2010 silver honda fit. illinois license plate d david m mary 80653. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> what we said at our last update, that stands. the main area, those four square blocks, we're asking people just to remain extra diligent, stay there. we'll get police escorts outside of there. be veryde vigilant. this person is on the loose.th we're working to try to figure out if he is local or if he has taken off to another area. we have multiple teams doing that right now. so we ask, give our law

enforcement some time to do their job and apprehend him safely. >> where is he from?jo >> he's from the saarea. >> from highland park? >> from this area. we'll have more on that later. additionally we will have photos going out shortly of him and a similar vehicle that he is believed to be driving. >> what's the first letter of his last s name? >> c. >> c charles. crimo. >> we don't have updates. again, the reunification post at the highland park police department is still there. i anybody that's been separated or looking for family, they should be going there. >> silver honda fit? >> fit. >> can you say it again, the whole name and the license s plate? >> you want t to give it? >> his name is robert. he goes by n bobby. middle initial e as in edward. crimo. c-r-i-m-o. the third. he's 22. and again, he's believed to be driving a 2010 silver honda fit, illinois license dm80653. okay, about an hour, 6:00 we'll

be back up with more updates and we'll let you know how our apprehension efforts are going. thank you. >> where is the governor going to be? >> 6:00, we believe. >> donell harvin, i would like you to talk us through both what we have learned about the person of interest and this note about dialing 911. officials saying we consider him very dangerous. what does that say to you? >> they believe he's still armed. certainly he'sev on the run. the fact that they have a name and a nickname for him is really indicative that they're doing great investigative work. possiblyea someone's come forwa with information. in many of these mass shootings, a large percentage of them, there's what we call leakage, which is that these w perpetrats project to close confidants in advance, sometimes days, sometimes only hours, what they'res going to do. and so hopefully someone will come forward with additional

information. looking forward to the next press conferencefo when they're able to share his photo and link him to the scene.hi perhaps people saw him making his escape or the car. and so this is great news and information. but more needss to be learned about this individual so they can stop him. he's still on the run. >> let me ask you something we've been watching all etday, which is this sort of push and pull among officials about how much to share. they did confirm that he is from the area but they did not want to give more details. your thought on why that would be. >> well, it's still an evolving investigation. and if they give away too much information, this individual may be listening on the news or watching livestreamed, listening to us right now. and so thee information that they give out, that could harm the investigation that's ongoing. the further awayha they get fro capturing this person. so they're being very judicious about the informationy' that's being givenou out. and that the public needs to help apprehend this individual.

but not more information that's needed that canma tip him off tt they're close to him. >> there's been an ongoing question of whether he was traveling by foot or whether he was driving. they are now saying that they believe he is driving a silver honda fit. the factg that he might be in motor vehicle, what does that mean vis-a-vis the various premises they have set up? >> once again, there is a whole network, depending on how sophisticated the local infrastructure is, license plate readers. we saw lprs can get a hit off a license plate. individuals can be picked up on ez pass if he's got an ez pass reader. closed circuit tv. cctv can pick these up. and just other motorists who just may be stuck in traffic, listening to this on the radio or livestreaming it in their car. you can see a hondahe fit with that license plate number and call in. so once again, that's another good piece of information to

help track this individual down. >> donell harvin, thank you so much for being with us. for final thoughts i want to bring in david jolly. david,in if you are still with , you have been with me for the past hour. your final thoughts. >> i think most of americans right now, alicia, are hoping we can just crush the culture of gun violence in the united states. what we have seen in highland park we know has occurred more than 250 times across the country in 2022 alone. that is, mass shootings by definition of the epidemic. and i think we're left both with questions, why did this happen, but also with a calling. what are we going to do about it? and on today, which is the day on which we embrace our national identity, perhaps there's no greateral identity, or no great day to embrace that calling than to say how do we put an end to what we've seenin in highland pk today. >> well, as we heard from the president just a few moments ago, this country remains a work in progress. david jolly, thank you so much. our breaking coverage continues

with chris hayes, starting right now. >> all right. good evening from new york. i am chris hayes. it is of course a day of celebration, the fourth of july in these united states of t america. and of course we come to you, if you've seen the news at all today, with the devastating news of another senseless mass shooting here inen america. it wass earlier today as famils gathered to celebrate independence day as they do a across this entire country in towns large and small, this one in a suburb about 30 minutes north of chicago, suburb known as highland park, where a shooter opened fire on the town's parade from a rooftop along the route. started this morning about 10:14 central time. a gunman standing atop the roof of a local business shot into thes parade at spectators usin what authorities have been calling a high-powered rifle. police say six people have been killed. and according to local health officials, at least 26 were hosped