them. and sadly, imagine soon, i will be back in this chair, with a new list of lives stolen. all because of this deadly and uniquely american problem of gun violence. and on that note, on that very sad note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with us, i will see you at the end of tomorrow. >> i am here in highland park illinois the suburbs in chicago. it's a latest american city on a long list of cities, a growing list of cities that have experience a deadly mass shooting. ties tha have experienc around 10:15 am yesterday morning, a gunman climbed up on the roof top, down the road, here behind me. and began firing towards the 4th of july parade down below him. the parade highland park as

well attended by families, with young kids every year. that's what a fourth of july parade should. be the local high school marching band was performing when the shooting began. absent night seven people have died after being shot at the parade. 47 people were wounded. the victims range in age from 88 years old to eight years old. the alleged shooter is 21 years old. he is currently in custody. authorities say they believe he's been planning the attack for weeks. all in all, he fired more than 70 rounds from an ar style weapon. that he purchased legally in the state of illinois. this could be a tape, by the, way because that's what i always say. that someone bought one of these ar style weapons. but the thing about this particular type of weapon is that while it was purchased legally in this state, it was technically illegal to carry that kind of semi automatic weapon inside the city of highland park, where this massacre took place. because in 2013, the city of

highland park banned assault weapons from the city. that happened just a few months after sandy hook, were 26 little kids and their teachers were gunned down at their elementary school in connecticut. democrats in congress try to pass a federal assault weapons ban which was swiftly blocked by republicans. so members of the highland park city council took it into their own hands. they rode up a new city ordinance that designs -- designated assault weapons as a risk to public safety. they said in no situation are military style weapons are justified means of self-defense in highland park. and then they voted to ban all assault style weapons and high capacity magazines from their community. but there's one other interesting part of that particular city ordinance that i want to highlight tonight. take a look at this. it's towards the bottom. it says, quote, the city has

previously encouraged the governor and the illinois general assembly to enact statewide legislation banning the sale and possession of assault weapons. to date, the state has failed to enact a statewide ban on the sale of or possession of assault weapons. end quote. what the city council here was suddenly pointing to, is that this kind of citywide assault weapons ban doesn't mean anything if there are weak gun laws in surrounding areas. no cop is checking you when you're coming into highland park, even with that ban in place, there's nothing standing in the way of someone who decides to legally purchase an assault weapon somewhere else in the state, or even a neighboring state and drive it into highland park to kill people. which is of course exactly what happened yesterday morning, just behind where i'm standing. we are learning more today about the trauma endured by the survivors of this mass shooting. one woman told the new york times that while she was fleeing the gunshots, she saw a toddler trapped under a man who was bleeding. and unresponsive. the boys injuries was minor, just some scrapes and bruises, but he kept asking the woman

where his mom and dad were. the child was taken to the hospital where he was reunited with his grandparents. today authorities released the names of six of the seven victims of the shooting. which is how we learn tragically that both of those little boy's parents were killed yesterday. his mother, irina mccarthy was 35 years old his father, kevin mccarthy 37 years old. we learn more today about the alleged sue shooter. police say that in 2019, someone who knew the shooter called the police because the shooter had attempted suicide. just four months later the police were called again, this time by the teenager's parents, who said their son had threatened to quote, kill everyone. police removed 16 knives as well as a dagger and a sword from the home. authorities say the suspect has been willing to speak to investigators since he has been taken into custody. they say at this time any kind of motive he may have had remains unclear. the alleged shooter was charged late tonight with seven counts

of first degree murder. the states attorney general is right, here he brought up the charges and said tonight he expects dozens of more charges will be right to account not just for the seven people were killed, but all of the victims. charges will be representative not just of the physical damage done by the shooter, but the emotional damage, if convicted, these charges come with the mandatory life sentence without the possibility of parole. just in the last hour, vice president kamala harris was here in highland park. she met with the mayor and the sheriff, and with first responders. and urged the rest of the country to have empathy, that's the mayor on the left, by the way. to have empathy for the people of highland park. because, she said, this could happen anywhere. and i know, because i've been covering them. they literally do happen everywhere in this country. the sun is just darting to set here. it is actually set in highland park. this is the first full day after a man with a legally purchased gun fired into the crowd. the gravity of what happened

here is beginning to settle in. joining me now in highland park is joel crause who was at the parade. joel, thank you for being with us. this is a hard day. for everyone else, things are settling down. for you, you are still processing this. you are here with your family, with your two little daughters. >> that's correct. >> where were you? you are down the road? >> just on the left side here. down about a block or so. before joining the parade, we we met with some neighbors there with their two children. there were four young children there together with us. and we were, unfortunately, right in front of the person who lost their life, nicolas toledo-zaragoza, the first person that we noticed had been shot. we heard the shot, we thought it was kind of someone using firecrackers or something like that. and then we turned around and saw that he had actually receive some pretty graphic, i'm trying not to be too graphic.

>> 78 years old. he standing. >> he's right behind us. unfortunately, their family probably took a lot of the damage for us. and maybe saved our lives in one way or another. we were lower to the ground. we immediately dropped. and just frantically trying to cover my children. and use my body to protect them. >> literally you and someone else who is next to you. you were both covering your children? >> i was trying to cover mine. and then my neighbor had his 15 month old in a stroller, which we put down. he had the front side, i was trying to cover the back as well. together we try to keep them all together and keep the kids as calm as possible. just wait for the shooting to stop. the images i have, the memories there, the bullets going through the trees. and hearing it hit the leaves. just the screams, the shouts, the panic. >> did you know? you said it sound like firecrackers. it's july 4th, it might have been firecrackers. and everybody tells me the same story.

then they realized it wasn't. and in some cases, it was people were screaming, people were running. in your case, you saw a man get shot beside you. right behind you? >> we were feet away. and unfortunately, my children saw everything. so they saw everything. so, my seven year old is processing it. my four-year-old is working through it as well. it's just tragic to think about them seeing that, having to live through that. >> how do you give them answers? what can you even say? >> the best way to do it is just not sugarcoat. it just answer the question. make sure they know they are loved and supported. we are here for them to answer any questions. today, it was a lot of her wanting to put together, my seven-year-old, what happened, where was mom? i was also there with my mother, as well as my mother-in-law. both of their grandmas were there. the chances of them -- they could've lost so much family. all in one.

>> and that's not an abstraction. because you saw what happened next to you. so at this point, you and your neighbor, your covering your children. you know the people are getting shot. and so, you are thinking that bullet could be coming for your family. and you are hoping that if it comes for your family a gift to you and it stops with you and doesn't hit your children. what a choice to have to make. what a thing to have to think about. just, cover your children, so they don't die. but you might. >> it's an experience i don't want anyone to have to live through. to ever have to. >> but they will. but they will. and we will talk about this in another what, maybe a week or ten days. and that is the worst part about it, right? >> it's almost every day. >> it is every day. in fact, numerically, it's a little more than that. what do you do about that? it's come for you now? it's not an abstraction. >> i am angry. i'm angry. and i don't know what to do with that other than channel it to something. so what's that my turn to, be i don't.

no it's been 24 hours. i don't know where i'm going to do with it. there's so many things that need to be fixed. and so many pieces. they all need to be fixed at once. we have a tendency don't want to fix one thing at a time. you can. we have to fix all of. it you have to put your energy. everywhere you have to chew gum and walk at the same time. as a country we need to start to work together. we need to talk about actual change. what's going to prevent death, and prevent loss in so many ways. it's unfortunate -- i'm -- fortunate to have everyone in my family walk away completely fine. we know that others didn't. >> has that set in for you? that you could have easily not been here today? i could've been talking to someone else about you? or your children? >> yeah. i feel very fortunate that we survived. but not fortunate to have been there -- and not fortunate about anything else. no one should have to live through that. we're working on, it will do our best to get through. it's definitely going to be a long road.

>> it's sad. you have the hopes in wishes of the country that doesn't want to have to see this again. but they will. i am sorry for what you've had to face. thank you for telling us about it. >> thank you for your time. >> it helps us to understand it. -- why this doesn't have to happen again. thank you. i hope your kids are okay. >> thank you so much for your time. >> joel crause was that the fourth of july -- and highland park when the deadly shooting happened. as were a lot of people i spoke to today. as we learn more about what happened, we're also learning about the seven people who were killed in the shooting. they are 64 year old katherine goldstein. 63-year-old jacquelyn sundheim. 88 year old stephen straus. 78 year old nicolas toledo-zaragoza. whom we just heard about, he was standing behind my last guest. the couple we mentioned earlier, 35-year-old irina mccarthy and 37 year old kevin mccarthy as well as a yet identified person. those are the seven who have passed away. we are going to have more information on these victims. joining me now the highland

park mayor nancy thank you for being with us. we saw you just moments ago. we showed the video of you when the vice president was here. she had a scheduled trip to chicago. >> she did. >> you had asked her to come? >> i asked her to come up and speak to our first responders. they have had an unbelievable 36 hours. and i knew they would appreciate hearing words of comfort and support from the vice president. more importantly, she said to them, they need to take care of themselves. >> tell us about the first responders. there were three reasons first responded here. one was some of them are in the parade. secondly, it was a large event. so there was a larger police presence. and they were the police station is over there. they did exactly what we'd hope first responders will do, to their own peril, they ran towards the gunshots. >> straight towards the danger. >> everyone tried to run away. and they were running forward. >> they were unbelievable. we've had incredible partnership with the fbi, atf, the state police. and so many local police

departments came together, have worked together an unbelievable concert and they caught the guy. it was an afternoon of absolute fear and panic. people were hiding under the gas station, under that store, in houses. they caught him. >> people understand that all politics is local. this particular place, the city did the right thing about assault weapons bans. >> in 2013 we banned it. >> pardon me. and yet. this still happen. >> right. we need to talk about the fact that patchwork legislation is not gonna work when you're talking about weapons of war. it's time for a national band. we had one, it diminished a number of national shooting for several years and then expired. and here we are. and to your point, this is all too frequent. i heard from so many mayors who said to me, oh, yeah, let me give you the handbooks on what mayors supposed to do. >> it's not an abstract thought -- >> it's not an abstract. the u.s. conference of mayors literally had a seminar, it was

attended by hundreds of mayors. in the middle of that seminar the mayor of seattle had the call that her city was dealing with a mass shooting. it is a sickness. it needs to be addressed. we did what we could. we represented our cities values here and took the necessary action. we took the risk of getting sued by the nra. and we were. and we prevailed. but at the end of the day, we need to see leadership, whether it's at the state level, i would prefer a national level. we are surrounded by several states who were very lenient. >> you are surrounded by other communities who don't have the. laws with the state is surrounded by other states -- illinois does have more strict gun laws in a lot of places. but it doesn't matter. because -- >> they can just drive an hour there in indiana. drive in another direction, they're in missouri. this country has to get tighter with the carnage at some point. the pictures, what happens to people's bodies when someone uses a combat weapon. is it making a statement, it's

a violent, evil act. >> is there some sense that this evolves in this changes? because it's hard. when you go into these communities where people say, i can't believe this happened here. but it does. it happens everywhere. is there some sense? do you get some sense, particularly seeing the vice president, we've obviously had some gun legislation, which was monumental to have anything happen. do you think people are tired of it and they will support communities that take a strong stand? >> it's interesting. i've got several calls for municipalities who are wanting to take this action. currently they're preempting by the state of illinois. we're working -- when he came here, there will hopefully be action in terms of removing state preemption or creating a statewide ban. but, again it has to be a national movement. we are the only country that doesn't address access to weapons of war. we know people have mental health issues and other countries -- video games, and post nonsense on social media. but they do not have access to these guns. and something has to be done.

this isn't freedom. we came together yesterday to celebrate as a community, multigenerational, independence day. our first parade in two years. it was a glorious day. until it wasn't. and it turned from parade to a mass evacuation. enough. >> so what's the audience couldn't see, as i was talking to joel moments ago, you are standing right there. you heard the whole conversation. you felt his emotion. he said. it he said, i'm angry. i'm trying to channel it into something. it's only been 24 hours, i don't know what that something is. that's something i've been hearing a lot. not just miss community, but every community i go to after shooting. i want something to happen. what should that something look like for everyday people who have not been killed in a mass shooting? what should that look like? >> it should look like in and an empathy for war victims. because at the end of the day, we are having the functional equivalency of a war breaking out in our streets, unprovoked. senator duckworth was here last

night. she says she hasn't heard those soyunds she was in combat and iraq. enough is enough. there's no reason to have these weapons on our streets. not for hunting, not for self protection. it has to end. >> mayor, thank you. i'm sorry to make my first visit here under the circumstances. but we wish you the best. >> i appreciate everything. thanks. >> highland park mayor, nancy rotering. the congressman who represents highland park was actually at the parade yesterday when the shooting started. we're gonna speak to him about yesterday and how, as the mayor talked, about to change things going forward. that's coming up next. that's coming up next. x: submarine rising out of water ] minions are bitin' today. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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philadelphia-based nbc news reporter was in the middle of interviewing a couple of teenagers, out celebrating the 4th of july last night, when gunfire rang out. this is an aerial look of how that independence day sprinting down the ben franklin parkway, away from the gunshots. there were no casualties, two police officers were injured in the shooting. investigators are looking to identify a suspect, who remains at large. they're also trying to determine where the shots came from, and how many rounds were fired. there was supposed to be a celebration, in a city where the declaration of independence was signed. this is how the mayor of philadelphia describes what happened instead. >> a laidback chill day. whether it was beautiful, everything was beautiful.

we live in america though, and we have the second amendment, and we have the supreme court of the united states telling everybody you can carry a gun wherever they want. it's like got city. so like, we have to come to grips with what this country is about right now. >> in addition to that incident in philadelphia, more than a dozen mattress took place across the country during this holiday weekend alone. including the catastrophe in highland park yesterday, that left seven people dead. even before that attack, at least 57 people were shot in the chicago area this weekend, nine of them died. and when you take the six months and five days of the year that have gone by in 2022, gun violence archive count 309 mass shootings so far in 2022. those are incidents in which four or more people were shot or killed. more than one today.

actually more than tua day almost. just last week, and president biden signed by new law gun legislator into law, the most consequential and expensive bill of its kind in decades. during the signing ceremony, he said, the families of the victims of recent shootings told him, quote, for god sake, just do something! the president said, quote, today we did. he said lives will be saved. that was on june 25th. the law he signed strengthened background checks for buyers, younger than 21. it's right in the boyfriend loophole. it set aside funds for mental health resources, in states where the laws, the law does not ban assault style weapons. now let me tell you, i have been covering the shootings on the ground from the scene, for years. and they all have assault style weapons. that's what about a week by the way, after that signing, i'm actually killed seven people on

july 4th, right here, where the assault weapon leaving the highland park to be the latest community to gain national attention as a target of mass violence. these are the two main newspapers in chicago. these are today's front covers. the chicago tribune says, holiday horror, the sometimes says, harbor on the fourth. officials here are still not sure what motivated the highland park shooter, but it seems clear, that ready access for these weapons of war, allowed him to inflict as much damage as he did. joining me now is congressman brad schneider, he's a democrat from illinois, who represents highland park. he was at the parade when the shots were fired. congressman, good to see you. thank you for being with us. >> this is the route along which the parade was going, where the shots were fired. you are moving your way between count. but four parades you are going to -- >> five parades. >> five parades. >> i was coming here. >> you are literally right over here.

>> literally just arrived, it was talking to my team where we connected during the parade route, we had not yet join the route, when the shot rang out. the woman i was talking, to ari, said there were shots and everyone is running to get away. and i moved away from the parade grounds. but this is a parade that thousands of people lined this route, that come together, families, generations, grandparents, parents, and grandchildren, i talk to one family, they are 16 family members were killed sitting where the shooting took place. celebrating the nation's birthday. our independence. our freedom. and only to have in a flash of a moment, upwards i heard so many rounds were fired in a matter of seconds because a individual was able to get a military style assault weapon with their calling, and they are 15 south weapon, killed, murder, seven people. wounded more than 30. and shattered the tranquility and the aspirations of this community on the day we

celebrated our nation's birthday. >> joel crouch who was standing there, and had a man next to him shot, that he heard the bullets whistling through the air. the mayor who was just here a moment ago, was talking about the fact that it sounded more like a war zone. the senator, tended awkward, said the same thinking, this was yet and heard this kind of thing, you don't hear this kind of thing in small town america. you heard in a war zone. on one hand, we actually have legislation for the first time in decades. gun legislation. on the other hand, everybody who does one of the things does it with an ar style weapons, and lots of young men seem to be able to get them. >> and i don't want to dismiss this legislation. house, senate, republicans, they came together. >> it's a big deal. >> it is a big deal, but it is a small step. it's money for states to put in red flag laws. which need to be in the states. yes it is experience demonstrates that. it's money for mental health. it's closing the boyfriend loophole. all of these things are critically important. but it's not enough. we know that these military weapons, weapons of death and destruction design for one thing to, to kill as many people as efficiently and quickly as possible, have no business in our community, and on our streets. and as long as people have access to these weapons, to climb on a roof, and disrupt a holiday parade with families are celebrating our community, we are gonna have tragedies like this 309 that almost 12 a week.

almost to every single day. we are better than this. we can to gather, republicans and democrats, and address this problem. >> so some of that will happen in congress, or can often in congress. it does feel to some people, we squeezed all the jews that we could out of the fruit, to get this legislation that we have just had. in the, and you talk about red flag laws, this is an example of a person who has had the police call twice. possibly for suicide attempt, possibly for a threat to kill other people. and yet, was able to legally purchased a weapon in the state of illinois. which is not known for having the most liberal gun laws in the nation. how do you solve problems that seem so obvious to people who think about it, but simon probable in terms of getting weapons out of the hands of these young man? >> absolutely. look, we will get more information about how this guy got the gun. he bought illegally. there were visits to his home. a couple of years ago, in all that is going to be developed as we get more facts along the case. this is still a crime scene. they are collecting all that data. but what we know that the assault weapons ban worked. we had an assault weapons ban through ten years, the number. --

>> and you did not have these stories on a daily basis. >> exactly. >> i use to say a weekly basis, it's more than that. >> it is not just a weekly, it is every day. two a day we are seeing this and affecting communities all across the nation. no community should experience but highland park is experiencing now. no community deserves to experience this. but our communities deserves is action from congress, concrete action, to pass twice now in the house, universal background checks legislation. 90% plus of the population, left right, hundreds, say we should do that. let's get that done. it's not a matter of trying to squeeze the juice out of congress, it is a matter of congress stepping up and stepping forward and taking our responsibilities seriously to keep our communities safe. kids and their schools, people in church, synagogue, people going to stores or a movie, should not have to worry that someone's gonna come in and

fire off 70 rounds in just a couple of minutes. >> thank you for your time. >> thank you, appreciate it, thank you for being here. >> it's a pleasure. congressman brad schneider from illinois who represents highland park. we're gonna speak with a surgeon who was at the parade. congressman was talking about the damage that these weapons of war do. a surgeon who was there with his family, he jumped in to help treat the wounded, as soon as a shooting stopped. he is next. oting stopped. he is next >> ...a "chow down" day... a "take a big bite" day... a "perfectly delicious" day... >> mm. [ chuckles ] >> ...a "love my new teeth" da the menu. a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation.

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at first he thought a celebrity had been spotted. howard prager was playing the tuba with his classroom band, a jewish instrumental group at the highland park fourth of july parade yesterday when the horror began to unfold. i spoke with mr. prager earlier this evening. >> this was the scene of the shooting behind us. when you were performing what happened in that moment when the shooting started? you were playing, you are performing. >> correct. >> how did you know something was wrong? >> we didn't at first. and then we started seeing people run on the street that we were on. which is the street right before getting into the main street for the parade. >> this is the main street for the parade. >> correct. >> the parade was here. and people were now running away from here? >> correct. >> this. way and you are over there. >> yes. yes. we were over there playing. and we saw a few people run by

and didn't think much of it, we kept playing joyously. and then all of a sudden, we saw a larger crowd and said, something's not right. we stop playing to try to find out what was going on. but at first no one was saying anything. and finally we heard shooter. >> wow. >> and that scared us. we heard some of the pops. we stopped playing. we heard some of the pops from the shooting. >> so you are performing at a band, clesmer it's literally joyous music, it's this fun thing. i am trying to understand, in the moment between you are performing. i imagine you're having a good time performing. >> yes. >> and then it dawns on you there's a shooter. and you see people running. they have panic in their eyes. give me a sense of what happened. this is inside of a minute? >> yes. i think we are probably playing for two minutes and then it started. so we were playing a little bit longer, again, not for the first few people we didn't think anything was up. but the more we saw people

running, the more we realized. both our piano player, gayle, and our violin player, alex, realized there was a shooting going on. >> how are you communicating this to all -- each other? you are playing. >> gail is a piano player. she could talk. she said, i think something's wrong. and i'm playing a long thinking, i don't see anything, gayle. or, i don't think so. and she was right. >> tell me what you've been thinking for the last 24 hours. >> this is surreal. i can't believe it happened here. in this community. i can't believe i was this close to it. and i am just so numb and in shock that this madness, this violence, this gun violence continues in this country. >> this is surreal. i want to turn now to someone who not only witnessed yesterday's brutal attack. but he stayed as the terror unfolded to help victims. joining us now is the man we

always hope, a man or woman we always hope is here. doctor loren schechter was out yesterday's parade with his family, right here. he jumped in to help and treat victims after the gunfire rang out. his normal job is as a surgeon at rush university medical center in chicago. doctor, thank you for your service, first of all. you should not have to be the guy who is around at a parade. but this happened. and i think the thing we have to get across to our viewers is this not the same as being shot with a handgun. these weapons, which all these mass shootings are undertaken with, they do damage to the body that even having a doctor on the scene cannot always help. >> that's absolutely correct. the injuries were devastating. i won't describe them. it was carnage. several people that i saw who were obviously deceased were beyond help. we turned our attention to other people.

it was a trias situation. there was a older gentlemen, i believe he was unfortunately one of people who passed away to a gunshot to his abdomen -- i went to some of the younger people who had multiple gunshots in their legs, open fractures, bones displaced. apply tourniquet, ivs, got them on the ground. a couple of older people who had not been shot, were pretty bruised and beaten, in i try to comfort them as the best we could. a couple of the younger people who were literally eviscerated on the ground. >> these weapons are of a power some people say -- a handgun is also semiautomatic, you can keep pulling the trigger, why do people distinguish between those in these. >> i've seen, unfortunately, a number of handguns. these clearly were not handguns. the level of devastation and

destruction of the body was well beyond the handgun. these individuals were mortally wounded. >> and there were ems people. here and a surgeon, like you. this is beyond in many cases what people on the scene can do. i'm not sure if some of these people if they were magically in an operating room within moments could be saved, given the damage that you and others have described to me, that those people who died faced. >> they were clearly deceased on the scene. getting them to an operating room would not have made unfortunately, one bit of difference. >> wow. what is your take on it? as a doctor who sees these things, unfortunately, this is not what you see every day. what's the message you let people take away from this? >> i certainly don't understand. i don't own a gun. i don't understand why someone would need a weapon of this power. the devastation that we saw was horrific.

i can't imagine as a sport hunter that you would need a weapon of that nature. it was truly awful. it was horrific. i don't have words to really describe. the community i grew up in, and my wife grew up, and my wife grew up. >> in which by the, way does not allow those. weapons >> does not allow those weapons. the older wind was pretty shaken. he was about 100 miles away with my sister. he is a going to be nine. and i was literally on the street, underneath the shooter. and we called my sister, who had a. i said, get out of here. we had my older parents, shuffling them off. i mean, we literally heard the bullets coming by. the trees were shaking. -- >> i heard from people they heard the bullets. >> i'm not familiar with that level of gun noise. i mean, i thought in my head, this is where i'm going to end. this is the end of it.

so. i got around the corner. my dad is a retired doctor. i said, i'm gonna go back and help. and that's what we tried to do. >> thank you fr what you did. did thank, you by the grace of god you're here. may this not be anything you see again. doctor loren schechter -- he treated patients at the scene of yesterday's horrific mass shooting. we're going to continue our coverage here. we turn next to the other shooting that our nation is grappling with. it's a heavy night and heavy night -- heavy night --

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where i am, now in highland park, illinois, the city of akron, ohio is now in a curfew tonight. that comes after multiple days of protests following the release of body cam videos on sunday, that showed eight akron police officers shooting and killing, 25 year old, jaylen walker. now the police pursuing him for having fled from a week to traffic stop, but that pursuit ended with jalen walker suffering from more than 60 gunshot wounds. now there are plenty of complicated factors to this case. we are getting a lot of coverage in the media. police say that when he emerged from the car, walker was wearing a ski mask. he also had a gun in his car that police say discharged prior to the persuit on foot. he was unarmed at the time he fled the car. and was shot. but all those complicated factors might be beside the larger point, when asked people in the streets of akron, upset about, this particular police

shooting, is the amount of force used by the police. now we normally try to avoid showing video that is too upsetting, or too violent, but for this story, in order to understand how much deadly force was used against walker, seeing the video is necessary. so, now is your chance to turn away, if you don't want to see the video, and i fully understand if you need to, because it is tough to watch. this is video from when walker exits his car, to the point where he is shot. now, we are going to freeze the video. but then keep the audio going. once walker is on the ground. it's important to hear just how long the officers continue to shoot after he is down. >> [noise] >> get down! [noise] [noise] [gun shots] [gun shots] >> non stop

shooting from multiple officers for nearly seven seconds. >> joining us now is phillip atiba goff, cofounder and ceo of the center of police equity and a professor of african american studies and psychology at yale university. professor goff, thank you for being with us tonight. you have had a chance as you always do, to have a look at what the public gets, the information body cameras, the things that the mayor and the police chief and others have said. what do you make about of the situation in akron? >> so, you are in highland park right now. single shooter, discharged, something close to 70 rounds. it was a mass shooting! a catastrophe, a tragedy. these eight officers discharged 90 rounds. 90. 60 in went into one body. we were talking earlier about

how our ar-15 weapons shred the body. it's not like a handheld pistol. but 16 rounds in an individual. there is no buddy that dangerous there is no way you can justify it. it's just grotesque. and so, we will talk about him in the weeks and months to come, the failures of training. we will talk about the reasonable and standard, while they thought there was a gun, and that he was wearing a ski mask, and that led the officers appear. but what's on earth are we gonna be able to say that says 90 rounds, 60 which go into a single body, is the way in which anybody is kept safe? our response to this is the same as most folks that i see in these communities. which is that, this is a ridiculous thing that we pay for. to then have to watch somebody die that way. >> so what is the response to the official line of police, at least for now, prior to there being a full investigation, that we should be considering the fear that the police officers may have had by virtue

of the fact that they say, a weapon was discharged from the car, and he got out of the car with a ski mask. >> so i want to understand how fear of a potential shooter leads eight officers in akron, ohio, to shoot 90 rounds, 60 of which go into one body, and say, well that is reasonable, but some one individual who shot 70 rounds, into a parade, said hey, could you do me a favor, and get on the ground. so i understand fear. i have been in positions where i am afraid for my safety. it has never made me act like that, and we saw in the video, the officers were able to make tactical decisions. you see officers put down their gun, when someone crosses in front of them. these folks are supposed to have to justify each and every single bullet in a court of law. you can't justify 90. i don't care what the story is. there is not a justification for 90 bullets.

>> so if you were either in charge of, or advising the akron police force today, and you are tasked with repairing their relationship with the community. where do you start after something like this? >> i'm not sure that i do. so in most of the situations, when we get asked to do all the time, and what many politicians will ask to do, well how do we do exactly that? how do we repair the relationship there? how do we fix what has been broken? i gotta say, in many places, across the country, folks are not are no longer asking, for better. they are asking for different. they are saying, i don't want law enforcement to respond to a traffic violation. for instance, in berkeley, california, we found six and a half times more likely black folks get stopped than white votes, often for pretext. berkeley just said, we are not gonna do low-level traffic enforcement with armed responders anymore. and berkeley has now been followed by places like los

angeles, philadelphia, pittsburgh, seattle, lansing, michigan, brooklyn, minnesota, and the entire state of virginia. so i don't know that the thing to do here is to focus on how much we trust the folks who are armed and have a badge. so much as it is trying to stop responding to things that could turn deadly, and shouldn't. with non deadly options. >> well you and i both spend a lot time in philadelphia, where the right confine police were in favor of. this great, get as out of the business of pulling people over for a sticker that expired. or for a light that is not working in a car. it doesn't end up well. we don't want to be in this business of raising revenue for the city by pulling people over for petty traffick crimes. >> yeah that's right. you got a license plate reader, you can tell we'll where the person lives, and just send them a ticket. in many cities, they have ban pursuits in cars, precisely because, most get hopped on a adrenaline, and then they end

up getting crashes. it's dangerous to the officers, and obviously can be deadly to the motorist. but it's not just traffic. i don't need a gun or badge to do mental health well. or homeless this well. or child welfare. the right kind of way. we don't need to respond to crises with potential for punishment and death. so much as we need to respond to crises with care. it can be cheaper and it is almost always less deadly. that is not from an ideological position. that is from science. and law enforcement and activists are asking for the same thing right now. >> philip, good to see you again, thank you for being with us, phillip atiba goff is a cofounder and ceo of policing equity, he's a professor of african american studies and psychology at yale university. always appreciate seeing you sir. thank you for being with us. >> thanks. >> we have two of the updates into the investigations in donald trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election. that is next. overturn the 2020 election that is next that is next

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fulton county georgia special grand jury, which is looking into potential criminal interference in georgia's 2020 presidential election, has subpoena key members of former president donald trump's legal team, including his personal lawyer, rudy giuliani. in addition, that grand jury, also subpoened south carolina senator, lindsey graham, so that is the first person. is the second of the january six investigation on capitol hill. today, the january six committee announced it will hold another public hearing next tuesday. at 10 am eastern. msnbc will of course have live coverage of that hearing, as well as a primetime recap, that evening, at 8 pm eastern. it will be hosted by rachel maddow. she is joined by a whole host of msnbc colleagues, certainly going to be a busy few days and weeks ahead. that does it for us here in, highland park, illinois. we will see you again at night tomorrow, for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. lawrence, i have to say, with everything that the january six public hearing has given us so

far, it's no surprise as they have gotten more information, that they continue to want to make this public as soon as possible. when they say they were gonna blow the roof off the house with this things that they were gonna tell us, i was a little skeptical at first. but boy the things that we have learned from those hearings, are earth chattering. >> yeah ali, and we are gonna begin tonight our hour, with what you just ended with. both the georgia subpoenas, and the january six the next january six committee hearing. adam schiff, congressman adam schiff, he's a member of the comittee, he is a member. he can tell us ways gonna tell us, when you can tell us and what to expect in the next hearing. and we are gonna be joined by a former georgia prosecutor to interpret those subpoenas sent by the georgia district attorney, to rudy giuliani, lindsey graham, and others. those are really loaded subpoenas. >> i'm glad you are doing that. i have been sort of occupied this hour with the things on the ground here, but this is