and our streaming channel tonight and every week nite at 5:00 eastern for show number two. "deadline: white house" with nicole wallace starts right ♪♪ ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. since its inception the congressional panel tanked with investigating the worst attack on the united states capitol in centuries has faced attacks from the various groups of people invested in their failure from the domestic violent extremists who were the main driving force behind the attack to the disgraced ex president himself and his allies, the ones in the country's two main political parties, people who peddled the big lie and incited the deadly attack in the first place and is so often the case since the emergence of donald trump in our politics, to cross trump is to face brutal threats of violence. on tuesday committee member adam kinzinger tweeted this. the darkness has reached new

lows and he shared a compilation of the barrage of threats of violence his office is receiving. we'll describe it as deeply disturbing, but worse than that. here's just a snippet of what they posted. >>. >> going to come protest in front of your house this weekend. we know who your family is and we're going to get you. >> the wrath of the lord god almighty come upon you, your health, your family, your home, your livelihood, and i pray if it be god's will that you suffer. >> you and liz cheney can both go to hell. >> we're going to get you. coming to your house, son. going to get you and liz cheney. going to get you two little [ bleep ]. [ laughter ] >> we're going to get you. so against the backdrop of a

campaign by extremists to literally intimidate kinzinger, cheney and all of their fellow january 6th committee members into submission, house republicans are now plotting to do the ex-president's dirty work out in the open with what can only be described as a disinformation campaign targeting the committee and its investigation. axios' report says, quote, key house republicans are threatening to subpoena record of the january 6th committee if the gop retakes the majority next year. an escalation to undercut the investigation's findings while republicans have been eager to move beyond what happened on january 6th, many use a gop-controlled majority to frame their own narrative of what happened that day and to raise questions about the january 6th's committee's work and spending. none of this, though, the political attacks and the threats of violence appear to be deterring the work of the january 6th investigators. the committee has new momentum

in light of two developments in the last few hours. a source telling nbc news that trump white house counsel pat cipollone has finally agreed to testify before the january 6th committee. that will take place this friday. "the new york times" describes it this way, a breakthrough part panel who has pressed for weeks to ask sip loan toe cooperate and issuing a subpoena last week proving he could provide crucial testimony. we are learning about the next public hearing about the january 6th select committee and that will take place next tuesday and the trump aid reportedly sent to testify then. former deputy press secretary sarah matthews. here's what john wood, a former investigator for the january 6th committee said about her. >> i actually led the staff part of the interview with sarah matthews. i can tell you she's an extremely credible witness. she's very young, but had a lot of responsibility as press secretary in the white house and saw a lot of what went on and

it's been publicly reported. she resigned because she had deep concerns about what happened on january 6th and the lead-up. so she'll be able to fill some of those gaps in the buildup to january 6th and january 6th itself. >> major strides in the work of the january 6th select committee despite extreme opposition and attempts at intimidation from trump and his allies is where we start the hour. jackie alemany is back. she's a congressional investigations reporter from "the washington post," also joining us, eddie glaude at princeton university and white house bureau chief for politico and the host of msnbc's "way too early," all msnbc political analysts. let's start to the breaking news and then we'll get to the smear and intimidate tactics on the right. jackie, a big breakthrough for the committee. the effort to get pat sip loan

cipollone to cooperate. explain. >> this is a very important development for the committee. lawmakers have been privately saying that getting pat sip loan y to sit for them and agree to a transcribed interview would be a very big get and now they're going to get just that. i believe they're going to try to use pat's behind the scenes testimony to corroborate the more major part of cassidy hutchinson's testimony. for example, cassidy hutchinson's claim that pat cipollone told her that she needed to prevent at all costs the former president from going to the capitol with pro-trump rioters who ultimately sieged that capitol because, quote, we're going to get charges of every crime imaginable is what hutchinson testified that pat cipollone told her that morning prior to the rally. so i think the committee, these

investigators are quite meticulous. i'm sure they've had a long laundry list of questions that they want to get through to get limb on tape saying and we know there are certain parameters that pat cipollone ultimately agreed to. through his lawyers he communicated that he's not going to testify or speak to any direct conversations that he had with the former president in the vein of exerting executive privilege. that being said there are multiple people so far who have been extremely helpful to the committee including people like eric herschmann, people who we've already seen in the taped depositions who have been helpful despite not providing direct criticisms of the former president or divulging private details of their conversations with him. so either way, pat cipollone is likely going to be extremely helpful for this committee as they get into their final weeks of the public hearings. >> you know, jonathan lemire, just listening to jackie's recounting, and i have the testimony she's talking about

and i'll play that in a second. pat cipollone doesn't have to talk about any of his conversations with donald trump. pat cipollone is most importantly, frankly, in his conversations with cassidy hutchinson and mark meadows and others about what the perils were on that day. it has been widely reported that he was so concerned about criminality that he thought donald trump could be charged that day, and with the smears, i tried to peek into a little bit of what happened to cassidy hutchinson in the wake of her testimony, really not much substantive pushback, but this one anecdote about a second-half story that she recounted was blown up by the right. it seems that pat cipollone comes in and is able to corroborate about what happened in the halls in and around the chief of staff's office. it's a lights-out moment for donald j. trump. >> yeah. let's start with that moment of secondhand testimony because we've seen this time and again from the former president and his allies where they grab a

hold of one detail, one thing that may not be 100% right or open for interpretation and they try to use that to discredit everything else. let's be clear, cassidy hutchinson's testimony, even if you set aside the moment in the presidential suv where she says that donald trump reached for a secret service agent or reached for the steering wheel. take that out entirely, her testimony is incredibly damning and it certainly seems that pat cipollone, the white house counsel was everywhere that day in the west wing and will be able to corroborate that. we know as an aside, videos emerged near the ellipse and it sure does look that donald trump is gesturing wildly into the front seat. perhaps that story is right after all. setting that aside, cipollone, of course, he is as you just mentioned was telling everyone within earshot that day that there were all sorts of crimes being committed and he worried that top aides as well as the then-president could be held criminally liable for what was happening on the other side of

pennsylvania avenue at the capitol. so he comes in and even if moments are deemed of executive privilege, his conversations that he had with aides surrounding trump would be hugely valuable and we can see portions of that in future hearings. this is a significant score for the committee and one wonders, does it open the door for other senior aides who have resisted playing ball? maybe they'll change their minds, too. >> the quasi principle he's seeking to protect in executive privilege has no bearing on other staffers and other conversations with other people advising an ex-president. i want to show how pat cipollone has figured prominently into the hearings. let me play this for you, eddie. >> i saw mr. cipollone when i

walked into west exec that morning and mr. cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> and do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the 6th, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. mr. herschmann and white house counsel's office were urging the speech writers to not include that language for legal concerns and also for the optics of what it could portray the president wanting to do that day. >> i remember pat saying something to the effect of mark, we need to do something more. they are literally calling for the vice president to be f-ing hung, and mark had responded something to the effect of you heard him, pat.

he think mike deserves it. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> eddie, two things strike me watching that again. again, there's no privilege in a conversation between mark meadows and pat cipollone. none. there's none. two, he wouldn't be the first white house counsel to be worried about being a witness to or perhaps even an accessory to obstruction of justice. don mcgahn spends 19 to 30 hours testifying before robert mueller and is the narrator in chief of the second volume of the mueller report. trump doesn't have new moves in obstructing justice is a go-to for him. it seems that once he testifies in a fulsome manner which there is no indication that's not the case, this committee will have a lot of what it's looking for. >> absolutely. i think the corroboration of cassidy and cipollone, what kind of shot would we call it?

it would be an important moment in the hearings, and it seems to me that corroboration will begin to connect the dots to hold trump responsible. so this is really important on a number of different levels, nicole and again, attorney/client privilege doesn't enter here because he'll be corroborating something we've already heard. >> jackie, i want to ask you about the next public hearing. we are under the understanding that the deputy white house press secretary who i believe we've already seen some of her taped depositions in terms of what was going on in the press offers when donald trump supporters were chanting "hang mike pence." it is that moment that cassidy is talking about when cipollone said trump needs to do something and meadows says he doesn't want to. talk about what a deputy white house press secretary could help this committee reveal. >> we have not yet confirmed what a hearing sarah matthews will appear in. tuesday's hearing will be focused on the culture of

violence on the right and sort of the path to modern-day extremism and how one becomes so radicalized as to actually siege the u.s. capitol as we saw on january 6th and as has continued. thursday's hearing, though, which was likely to focus on the 187 minutes of trump's quote, unquote, dereliction of duty as how the lawmakers on the panel have described it, is likely to be a better fit for sarah matthews who actually worked very closely with cassidy hutchinson. we spoke with people close to matthews and who worked around matthews and said the two actually worked basically side by side most days. so she is someone who would have had direct firsthand account and testimony that would again, further corroborate the events of that day, the push that was going on from all different corners of the west wing to get the former president to put out

a statement to do anything, really, to try to stop the violence. as bennie thompson pointed out in the graphic with cassidy hutchinson, those are extremely close together and cara mcmainy, sarah matthews' boss who was going in and out and trying to communicate with the president and to craft some sort of press strategy. so i imagine i'll have sarah the way cassidy hutchinson is as well and connect the dots on some of the nuggets that have dripped out throughout the past year. >> jonathan lemire, i want to read what sarah math matthews said last week, anyone downplaying cassidy hutchinson's role or her access in the west wing either doesn't understand how the trump white house worked or is attempting to discredit her because they're scared of how damning the testimony is.

sarah matthews went right into the lion's den, if you will, of where the pushback and the attacks were coming from. i wonder if you can speak to what liz cheney and the other committee members may have cracked open and not just their four taped depositions and live testimony of cassidy hutchinson, but in liz cheney and the other committee members repeatedly saying i will not allow her character, her integrity and reputation to be slandered or smeared. has that loosened up or pried open any more witnesses coming forward? >> anyone who i've talked to in trump world heard that and welcomed it. the idea that there would be some protection for these witnesses some of whom were victims of intimidation or harassment or tampering because of an effort to prevent them from testifying. we certainly know cassidy

hutchinson felt was and sarah matthews, as someone i covered in the trump white house, my colleagues and i would deal with her. deputy press secretary as one of the straight shooters and someone who worked for the president for quite some time and then had a moment where she realized enough was enough with the big lie and the violence on january 6th and now has stepped forward and could provide some important corroboration for what cassidy hutchinson has seen and we've known throughout this investigations, nicole that there were as much as the bold-faced names where they were refusing to play ball and some refusing to face charges and the mid-level staffers who were so horrified at the end of donald trump's time in office and maybe not in such a public setting and will cooperate with

investigators and there's more momentum now for others to step forward. >> i want to show you something that jackie alluded to, which is the first hearing next week will focus on the extremists themselves. let me show you what congressman jamie raskin said about that. >> donald trump solicited the mob. he summoned the mob to washington. it's not as if january 6th existed as a focal point for the far-right activity that was taking place until the president brought everybody together on that day and washington was not some kind of arbitrary choice. january 6th was not some kind of arbitrary choice and 1:00 p.m. was not some kind of arbitrary choice. all of this was targeted on the

joint session of congress that's called for in the 12th amendment for the house and senate to get together to count the electoral college votes. there's nothing like this that has ever taken place before and all of it flown out of the call by donald trump to be there will be wild. >> eddie, i guess what we know in addition to that framing isn't just that he summoned the mob. isn't just that he gave them the who, mike pence, the what, the u.s. capitol, the when, 1:00 p.m., but we know the extent to which donald j. trump was aware of the specific types of weapons they were carrying ar-15 weapons, daggers and swords and we learned from cassidy hutchinson and it's frankly odd that if you were going to push back against one piece of testimony and you were worried about tying donald trump to the weapons carried by his supporters to the united states capitol who were intent on

hanging mike pence, to me this would be the thing to lie about not whether or not he lunged at a secret service agent in the car with god knows how many cameras pointed at him, but the idea that we now know, not only that he summoned them and sent them there and gave them the address and told them what to do when they got there and knew that they were armed to the hilt and that the hearing coming up is the most consequential. >> absolutely. cassidy hutchinson, remember, she told us that he said very clearly they're not here to hurt me. so in some ways, what, trump knew the lie was false. he knew what he was trying to do in terms of overturning the election was illegal and he brought muscle. he brought muscle. stand back, stand by. he said it early on and he brought the muscle to bring about his desired ends, and i think this is really important as they begin to again, connect that throughline nicole from the very first hearing until now. remember when we were talking about the war room meetings at the willard hotel and rudy giuliani and flinn and roger

stone and his connection. so i think what the committee will do is to begin to connect those dots and make it all explicit and show that donald trump knew he was lying, knew what he was doing was illegal and he brought muscle to make it happen. >> that's amazing. jackie alemany, jonathan lemire, thank you very much for starting us off with your reporting. we are so grateful. eddie sticks around. when we come back, disinformation has become a third rail of our politics. how the federal government has tried to put a stop to its spread, but a republican party committed to it is continuing to feed the beast and making that task impossible and dangerous. plus, illinois prosecutors say they will file dozens more charges against the suspected highland park mass shooter. he's already facing seven counts of first-degree murder. the state attorney calling out our political system for allowing the federal assault weapons ban to expire. we'll have a live report on all of that and later in the program in her first interview since

indictments were handed down, or subpoenas were handed down to a whole host of trump associates fultzon county d.a. fannie willis tells nbc news additional subpoenas are still coming and she doesn't rule out subpoenaing the ex-president himself. all of that and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. stay with us. "deadline: white house" continue that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. stay with us

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immigration, the covid pandemic, abortion rights, guns, climate change. of course, we're talking about disinformation. the war on objective truth made far worse by a broadening partisan political divide and the media outlets that serve as one side of them. from "the new york times," quote, there is wide agreement a kos the federal government that coordinated disinformation campaigns threaten to exacerbate public health emergencies and stoke ethnic and racial divisions and undermine democracy itself. the crisis and its solutions are so complex has to do with its circular nature and not only have measure taken to combat this information and resulted in projections and reverse accusations of censorship and even talking about disinformation with those seemingly hooked on it ends up being counterproductive. this now seemingly untouchable problem as "the new york times" describes it just last night

even after bringing up porn and video games and marijuana, another wild misdirection of blame for another deadly mass shooting and one that would be comical if it wasn't so tragic and dangerous. watch. >> think, they're angry. they know that their lives will not be better than their parents. they'll be worse, that's all, but guaranteed. they know that. they're not that stupid. the authorities in their lives, mostly women never stop lecturing about their privilege. you're male, you're privilege. try to imagine an unhealthier life than that. so a lot of young men in america are going nuts. are you surprised? >> the problem with mass shooters is women. i see. joining us msnbc political analyst rick stengel former top state department official and he works to combat misinformation and has written about it and eddie glaude is with us, as well. all right, rick.

what do we do? >> you said something interesting in the introduction when you said the problem is circular and the problem is the amount of disinformation out there is making disinformation harder and harder to talk about. it's become a partisan issue. i mean, the classic, you know, dictators, authoritarian ruse which putin uses which trump usees is to accuse the other guy of exactly when you're doing and when the other guy accuses you of doing something call it propaganda and that's yet word has become problematic, a kind of lightning rod just the way people on the right the big lie is a partisan issue. that's a very, very dangerous thing, but at the same time and you mentioned that new york times article that what the administration tried to do kind of went wrong in the sense that you create this disinformation bureau at the department of homeland security. that's not a super smart thing to do. when you want to combat disinformation you want to do it in a bipartisan way and you

mentioned what i did at the state department, we started something called the global engagement center at the state department to combat disinformation around the world and we particularly didn't want to put disinformation in the title because it's a lightning rod and that speaks to another point that it is a lot easier to rally around than domestic disinformation and that could be another man's truth and that's what we see all of the time now. >> rick, that's not true. there's only one truth. so it's not, you say tomato. i say tomato. it feels like part of the problem on the truth and the facts want to meet the liars half way and they blame bossy women. >> yes. what i used to say to folk s who worked with my, there aren't two sides to a lie. this philosophical issue to what is truth is something that's been around for the last 5,000 years and when one person says

truth and another person says a lie, you know, you have to make -- you have to distinguish between the two. what we need to do is democracies don't function without a shared set of facts. we need to agree on a shared set of facts and that's why i mentioned foreign disinformation and what the russians told black voters, hey, you can vote online and i think we can all agree that's a lie and misinformation and the real place to combat disinformation is not via government where there are first amendment issues. it's the platforms and the platforms have to combat it. >> eddie, there's also an intensity piece and the people that the russians are studying to learn how to make a good liar is donald trump. he's advanced again the foreign and disinformation campaigns that the russians are famous for, there is a zeal, a

zealousness to the truth tellers don't make. how do you make more symmetrical the passion behind the truth to try to match the passion behind the lies? >> yeah. i mean, that's the really -- that's the key question. how do we fight this as vigorously for the truth and for the world that we think it would be a better world against those who are arguing for what i take to be a liberal and anti-democratic forms of living or ways of living. i think this could be a complicated story where news and entertainment blurred, where we get crossfire. there's a way in which we can tell a story in the 1970s and '80s and '90s to now and then we have an ideological moment and think about what tucker carlson said, nicole. it's stupid on a certain level.

he's not trying to, but there's a moment when we can begin to pan out, a world in which white men reign supreme is collapsing and they're losing their mind so that they now want to murder people. that's what he's saying. the culture wars is the context for mass shooting. that's what he's saying. the grievance and hatred that he peddles is the source of these young 21-year-old and 22-year-olds going out killing babies and killing old people and killing folks on the fourth of july. does that make sense? no, but it does point to something fundamental that the fabric of the country has shredded, it's breaking. we're broken. how do we get at that in terms of the news in relation to entertainment and in relation to ideological? i don't know. the genie is out of the bottle and how we fix it will be a difficult tank. >> it just seems that the

elaborate and rapt audiences gulping down the sand because it's a mirage. it isn't real, need to at least be matched or rife ald with the appetite for the truth. i'll ask both of you to stick around. the highland park shooting suspect has been charged with serve counts of murder. there are more charges to come for him. when we come back, we'll hear from some of the youngest and bravest eyewitnesses on that day, on this terrifying reality that we all live in now. that reporting is next. don't go anywhere. we all veli . we all veli . that reporting ♪ i've been everywhere, man ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere ♪ ♪♪ don't go anywhere.

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the illinois man who was accused of committing the fourth of july mass shooting in highland park appeared remotely in court today who faces seven counts of first-degree murder. officials expect to charge him further. prosecutors say he voluntarily confessed and told authorities that he had considered a second attack in wisconsin. he's being held without bail. the names of the seven victims have been released, katherine goldstein, jackie sundheim, nicholas toledo, kevin and irina mccarthy and the devastation goes beyond those lives lost and countless, countless families and people are left grieving loved ones including a 2 1/2-year-old. his name is aden mccarthy whose

mom and dad cerf inand irina. aden was found wandering alone in the aftermath of this mass shooting. accords to his grandfather, aden survived because his son shielded his son with his body. kevin's last act was trying to keep his son, his baby safe from the gun violence that is now a hallmark of american life. let's bring in our correspondent dasha burns who is live in highland park, illinois. hi there, my friend. this is the saddest place in america right now and there will be another town and another mass shooting soon enough. tell me what's happening there today. >> nicole, you're all too right, and when the cameras go away, when the caution tape comes down and when that street behind me where this tragedy happened is opened again, people will this community are still going to be grieving. they're still going to be trying to heal this wound that is going

to last especially for some of the youngest in that crowd. this is a parade so many families come to every single year and most people i talk to had a specific part of the sidewalk and a certain corner that they would gather at including the family who is 9 years old and sydney, i want to introduce you to these two young brave girls. they looked forward to this parade every single year. they were so excited for the candy and the prizes that they were going to get, but this year, instead, they had their dad grab them, screaming, run. they had to hide in a local business, and they say they don't think they ever want to go to a parade again. the sound of fireworks is something that is horrifying to them when it was once exciting, but i'll tell you, they wanted to talk to me because they wanted other kids to know that it's okay to be scared. it's okay to talk about being scared and to talk about the

scary thing that happened. take a listen to just some of what they told me. >> when we were walking to our friend's house i saw, like, a bullet in a car with blood dripping down and it was red. the side of the car was red and it was a bullet. >> are you guys doing okay now? how are you feeling today? >> i still get scared at some moments like that, but i'm doing better. >> i still get scared at loud noises, though. >> is this the most scared you've ever been? >> probably. >> what do you want other kids to know? >> that -- that it's safe now and they -- they don't need to worry as much, but it was a good thing to know that it was gunshots. >> such remarkable kids.

wiser than any of us are at moments like this and you know, for the father to hear his daughter describe seeing blood on a car, that was actually the first time that he had heard that anecdote from his daughter and it's just horrifying to have to talk to your children about this and to have to counsel your children through this knowing that this was going to be something to carry with them for the rest of their lives, nicole. >> it's amazing to hear you talk about it, too, that in this case the coast is clear, basically and it is safe and tragically, we have so many of these in buffalo and in uvalde, there were resources flooded into the town. i wonder because there were so many children in attendance, is the town offering or encouraging people to take part in those kinds of services for kids and families? >> yeah. absolutely, and those services

are available through so many different agencies and different organizations from churches and synagogues here to the fbi setting up a place for victims to come and get help and you're right. there were so many kids here. there was a family event and parents who have been themselves coming to this parade for years taking their kids who unfortunately, nicole, are aren't so unfamiliar with this. these kids are doing drills every few weeks at school and it's interesting as i've been talking to folks here, i've been surprised by the lack of surprise, certainly shock. certainly devastation, but not as much surprise as you would expect and people say, listen, we were just in the next town. there will be another one after this. we didn't think, didn't want this to happen in our community, but we were under no illusion that it couldn't happen here. >> so amazing in your reporting and in christian's reporting report she found people with

that same idea, i can't believe it happened here and we were just next. this is life. this is who we are. dasha burns, thank you for your extraordinary reporting. it's always nice to see you. president joe biden responding today to those urgent pleas from wnba superstar britney griner who remains in a russian jail awaiting trial. we'll bring you that story next. don't go anywhere. we'll bring you that story next. don't go anywhere.

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an important development to tell you about in the case of wnba player britney griner. griner has been detained in russia for more than 130 days. her wife, sharel griner spoke by telephone today. president biden, quote, called cherelle to reassure her that he is working to secure brittney's release. urging him not to forget about her writing that she feared she could be detained in russia indefinitely. we are back with rick and eddie. eddie, brittney griner's case has been one to cover it, you weren't sure what the best thing for brittney griner was and there was a lot of uncertainty to whether it would make it more difficult. now the family has made a

full-court press and her coach was on with my colleague andrea mitchell earlier and she said this and this was an interview with "sports illustrated," phoenix coach said what if someone like lebron, and it's a statement of the value of women. it's a value of a black person. and it's the value of a gay person and we know it and so that's what hurts. what are we making since this has become a very public effort to get brittney griner hope. what do you make of that and the white house? it has been effective in the sense that we got the phone call from president biden to miss griner. we got the letter or the draft of the letter.

whether or not it will be effective in actually bringing griner home, i'm not sure. we know you know. i saw this segment yesterday on this that it's a very complex situation, but i think this is really important. president biden is really good at being the sympathy in chief. >> he has to deliver at some point. a sympathizer in chief, but he has to deliver at some point, and i think not that this is a litmus test, but it's just not enough to be empathetic and sympathetic. he has to deliver concrete results. >> so, rick, how do you deliver on this? how do you get brittney griner home? >> this is very much a cold war scenario, what the russians used to do that were excellent as espionage and when we had people in america who were in prison who they wanted to get released and they would capture people in

russia and hold them in exchange. i think brittney is a bargaining chip for them. they want to hold her until they can get something that they want from the americans. it's not about sympathy. it's not about sympathy and they use her as an asset with the u.s. and they don't have many assets right now. that's why it's such a tricky situation, and i think the family going public has only helped and it will continue to help and the u.s. government is usually pretty generalized and there is a special envoy for hostage affairs at the white house and there is a special envoy with hostage affairs and i dealt with this at the state department and people are working on this night and day and russia wants to trade her for something they want from the u.s. >> i want to make sure i understand this. you think they took her and

wrongfully charged her and very much in the realm of the possibility. >> 100%. i mean, absolutely. she was well known. she was famous. she's a, you know, an outstandingly successful woman and that's her. it had nothing to do with violations of the law. she had the tiniest stuff that you wouldn't stop a tourist from leaving with or taking in. it's absolutely 100% the reason they are holding her is to use her as a bargaining chip. >> okay. there's more on this story that i want to tell you about in the vain of the reverend al sharpton traveling to russia and his plan. we have to sneak in a quick break. i'll tell you about that on the other side. don't go anywhere. o that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right?

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which may be permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. in the darkness of bipolar i and ii depression, caplyta can help you let in the lyte. ask your doctor about caplyta, from intra-cellular therapies. we are back with rick and eddie. eddie, there is the human toll of russia's horrible treatment, and i'm actually really happy to hear rick's analysis. that's what it seems like but without knowing how russia rolls, it's hard to assert that from my perch. but my colleague, the reverend al sharpton, has asked the biden administration to arrange a clergy visit. all civilized nations allow someone a visit from the clergy. it begs the question are we dealing with a civilized nation when dealing with russia? >> not really.

in so many ways, you know, it's one of the most hoe know phobic -- homophobic countries in the world. you can imagine what brittney griner is experiencing. it is the center of white nationalism globally and so there are a number of different kind of currents here. so i think this is important for reverend sharpton to go but i don't think we should look as if it's jesse jackson going to libya to retrieve lieutenant robert goodman. >> rick, she was detained right as the war was beginning. how does that complicate efforts to free her? >> >> she's a bargaining chip. the russians don't negotiate. they know what they want and say this is what we'll do. what if vladimir putin says president biden we'll return miss griner if you stop shipping medium to long-range missiles to ukraine, if you stop sending

billions of dollars to ukraine, we'll send her back. they use her not only as a bargaining chip but as something to try to enhance their image or to make a political point, so i think it's difficult and i think, you know, i would love to see the reverend sharpton in moscow and make a visit like that, but again, the russians have made a determination to use her in a way that's to her advantage, and to put us in an awkward position. so by saying stop sending howitzers and bazookas and missiles to ukraine, that's an awkward situation for the u.s. >> indeed. >> it is remarkable. we'll stay on it. rick and eddie, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. up next for us, in a brand-new exclusive interview, fulton county district attorney penny willis on what is still to come in her ongoing and intensifying investigation into whether the ex-president criminally interfered in the 2020 election.

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i know you would like to get to the bottom of it although i saw you on television today and you said that you found nothing wrong. i mean, you know, and i didn't lose the state, brad. people have been saying that it was the highest vote ever. there was no way. >> president trump, we've had several lawsuits and had to respond in court to the lawsuits and the contentions. we don't agree that you have won. >> all i want to do is this.

i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. hi again everyone. it is 5:00 in the east. it was and remains shocking to hear that, the ex-president there as president at the time asking a georgia state election official to find just one more vote than he needed, votes that we all know now do not exist to change the outcome of the georgia presidential election and make him the winner of georgia's 16 electoral votes. but the call we just played a snippet of is more than just shocking and ethically challenged. it may be the ex-president's criminal undoing. in i had brand you had new

exclusive interview blayne alexander asked what more is to come into the investigation whether the ex-president criminally interfered in the 2020 election. watch. >> we expect to possible see additional subpoenas from people in former president trump's inner circle or trump associates? >> yes. are we talking about former white house officials. >> we have to see what the investigation leads us. people thought we came into this as some kind of game. this is not a game at all. what i am doing is serious, is very important work, and we're going to do our due diligence and making sure that we look at all aspects of the case, and so all you see is a prosecutor doing their due diligence. >> willis' most revealing answer came next. watch. >> might we see a subpoena of the former president himself? >> anything's possible.

>> reporter: so we're not ruling it out? >> absolutely. >> constitutional scholar laurence tribe tells "the washington post" he thinks will sis taking on the ringleader in a racketeering scheme and says her investigation will likely be "the first indictment of a former president who committed the crime on tape for all to hear." now all of this comes just one day after willis' grand jury issued subpoenas for seven trump allies, including rudy giuliani and senator lindsey graham, a move the "new york times" describes like this, "the subpoenas underscore the breadth of the investigation by fani t. willis, the district attorney of fulton county which encompasses most of atlanta. she's weighing a range of charges according to legal filings including racketeering and conspiracy and her inquiry has encompassed witnesses from beyond the state. the ex-president's possible legal jeopardy in the fulton county criminal investigation is where we start the hour with some of our most favorite reporters and friends, at

forementioned nbc news correspondent blayne alexander joins us from atlanta, also joining us, jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and the department of defense, now an msnbc national security contributor, and neil cotielle, former acting solicitor general now georgiatown professor and msnbc contributor. blaine, congratulations. the d.a. does not give a lot of interviews. she gave one at a really important time and gave it to you. tell us more about what you learned from her. >> reporter: nicole a number of things stood out. we are expecting to see more subpoenas. she answered that in no uncertain terms. when you listen to her talk about this investigation you hear her approach and if you had any question before about how serious this is to her, this interview wipes away that question. she is very serious and casting a wide net and doing a robust investigation and plans to leave no stone unturned.

i asked her just a couple of minutes before i sat down with her this morning that we got that statement from senator graham and his team essentially they'll challenge that subpoena. i asked her about it almost in real time and she came back in a very defiant way but made it clear she wasn't surprised. she said in her words to me, nobody wants to come to the prosecutor party. she was expecting people to push back on the subpoenas. her job is to in her words make them come to the party anyway. she plans to use every power in her reach to compel them to come forward and appear before the grand jury in fulton county. when i asked her about the graham statement, here's how she responded. take a look. >> what do i have to gain from these politics? it's an inaccurate estimation. it's someone that doesn't understand the seriousness of what we're doing.

i hope they don't come and testify truthfully before the grand jury. >> reporter: "somebody who doesn't understand the seriousness of what we're doing." i want to say something quickly about the fulton county d.a. i covered her as a local reporter here and as she's been a prosecutor in fulton county and she's somebody fearless, she led the prosecution into a number of educators here during the biggest cheating scandal in atlanta public schools, national history, sent educators to prison for their role in that scandal, challenging and prosecuting some very big-named rap artists right now. she said she plans to bring essentially the same combusto to this investigation. she told me in no uncertain terms, nobody is above the law, nobody is above prosecution, not even the former president of the united states. one other thing to bring in here, nicole is the timing. she has a long runway to watch this investigation unfold and to do this investigation, until may of next year in fact, that's how long the grand jury can convene but she says she's going to

pause around election time. it's delicate because we have the 2022 midterms. she wants to avoid even the appearance of trying to influence the election, so she says from the time that early voting begins here in fulton county and in georgia, mid-october through the election, we're not going to see any subpoenas, we're not going to see any indictments. she's going to clear the air around that time. nicole? >> i have that. i want to play that part. this is the conversation you're talking about when you ask her about the timing. >> reporter: yes. >> all of this foolishness about i'm doing this to impact an election, i want to just take that away. this has nothing to do with the current election that's going on. this is a real investigation. you don't have to like that we're doing it but we are doing it and we're serious about it. and so the same is true if we got into the time period of early voting, we would just pause and wait. there's no reason that i can't just pause and wait, if i'm able to wrap up in late september, even very, very early october before that process starts, by all means, we like to finish and

get on to other work. >> reporter: you're saying if you haven't wrapped up, we'll pause -- >> early voting, and we would just start back again after the november election. >> blayne, she just lays waist to the information two essential pillars donald trump and his allies do under investigation, one there's any political gain. ask robert mueller how this works out or anyone that set out to investigate or hold donald trump accountable has paid a price reputationally. she just asserts that. this isn't political and on the timing. not only is this not going to interfere in the election. i'm going to stop. i'm going to hit pause and stop. where does all of that sort of savvy come from? is she a close watcher of trumpism swept in her state or is it what you're describing, she just sees the law in black and white and doesn't matter who has crossed it?

>> reporter: i think it's the latter nicole. i'm glad you played that sound. that's something she was very adamant about. she wanted to make it clear, i'm not trying to influence the election here. i don't have anything to gain politically here. she says that if it was anybody, anybody who had done the same alleged crimes that she's now looking into the former president for, she would be going after it with kind of this same strength and the same focus. it is something that she says she wants to -- she's spoken very candidly in the past about the fact she believes in the power of elections, and she says that protecting that right to vote is something sacred and i think that you see that come to bear in how she's approaching this investigation. >> blayne, stay with us. so it's a really amazing interview and a really, really important time and neil, i'm going to go there. what fani willis is to the rule of law in georgia, certainly everyone watching this show is hoping merrick garland is to the rule of law in america. do you see how she sort of makes

him look like he's not applying the rule of law to everyone and anyone? >> i wouldn't go that far, nicole. she's a little further ahead and merrick garland has a number of other competing concerns including this investigation in congress which he looks like he's waiting for the fruits of that before before taking substantive steps before taking a criminal indictment of donald trump or others around him. i don't think that's surprising. i think that's part of the genius of our system, our founders have criminal prosecutions at the state level and at the federal level and it looks like this georgia d.a. is looking at racketeering and conspiracy against donald trump and his allies. only donald trump could be at the center of an alleged racketeering scheme that never made anyone any money and that failed. that's trump's m.o. but she certainly seems tough and making

a convincing case already this is possibly fraud against georgia. when lindsey graham talks as usual out of both sides of his mouth he makes no sense. he says this is all politics. well, if it is all politics and you know so much about the situation, senator graham and you're so confident there's nothing of substance, then i'm sure you're eager to go and testify before the grand jury and comply with the subpoena, but of course he's not. he wants to try to block the subpoena. he's claiming it's some sort of separation of powers problem which i guess is convincing if lindsey graham is trying to prove he has no business being on the senate judiciary committee. this is luis gohmert misunderstanding the separation of powers. i don't think his attempt to block the subpoena will go anywhere and leave a lot of investigative paths open for from what graham says and the other six individuals who have been subpoenaed by this district attorney. >> neil, i want to make sure i understand something you said at the top that it's appropriate

for merrick garland to wait for the congressional probe to do its thing. fani willis is investigating things that the 1/6 committee is looking. . raffensperger is a witness and others who testified before a special grand jury. what does merrick garland have to wait for congress to proceed with a criminal probe? >> i'm not saying it's necessary appropriate. i can see arguments on both sides. i can see a difference between a coordinate branch of government, the executive branch where merrick garland works deferring to the legislative branch of government. they have so many different issues versus a state or district attorney who doesn't quite have that. it also is possible that garland is doing stuff in the shadows and we haven't heard about it. i would caution too much of a comparison, this shouldn't be a race. this should be everyone trying to get the right answer, do it

carefully and methodically and the like and it seems like that's going in georgia right now. >> you know, i think jeremy bash, that the spirit of the questions and what is so amazing about blayne's interview with district attorney fani willis is her last answer to us. this isn't about being savvy to the way donald trump tries to annihilate anyone who tries to hold him and his inner circle accountable. this is about a prosecutor who doesn't have any fear or favor, she'll go after educators, she'll go after a rapper, i don't know who that is, blayne, but i think there is a sense that at the federal level it matters all too much almost entirely who has planned a coup, who has done something illegal when it comes to asking his vice president not to count the votes. do you think the justice department has struck the right balance? >> the georgia case is so

interesting. donald trump's oft used defense, i do it in public, thus it can't be a crime, russia, if you're listening. russian interference in the 2016 election was a crime. of course, people were indicted, and would have been held accountable if we had jurisdiction over them, but election interference is election fraud and election fraud is a crime. so i think what this d.a. is saying is that when donald trump made that phone call to georgia state election officials, effectively we caught him on tape saying something that he wasn't even willing to say in public, and this is donald trump. so we heard him privately saying that he is, needs votes. he wants election officials to override the official count. he's looking for 11,000, whatever the number is votes, and that's saying so despite the fact that's told in the very same conversation by a republican election official, you lost the election, mr. president in georgia. this d.a. is following the

facts. the case in georgia is so compelling and so clear in my mind that she's doing simply her duty of following the facts, issuing subpoenas, taking testimony, taking evidence and i think it's only a matter of time before the president himself receives a subpoena and i think criminal charges will and should follow. >> it's such an interesting point, jeremy, and of course the tape, it became public but donald trump didn't know that brad raffensperger would release it by the next day and with everything we know about the timeline, donald trump makes that call on saturday, january 2nd. on sunday he makes jeffrey clark, his attorney general for long enough for the white house call logs to say attorney general jeffrey clark. we know that night there was a showdown at the ok corral and he ends up picking mr. rosen to continue as acting attorney general and he gets rid of, you know, apprentice style sends jeffrey clark back to the environmental division or whatever it was that he did before he became a coup plotter.

i wonder if you can put that clear-cut criminality on the tape in the context of a federal investigation. how is it not so clear also in the federal law? >> well, it goes to intent, nicole. i think it's becoming much more clear in the context of the january 6th investigation. folks i've talked to who are close to the investigators up on capitol hill have said that, you know, there is so much that they have not been able to bring forward in their tightly-scripted hearings, so much more that would be part of a final report, so much that they are collecting that doj is catching up on. i think actually one potential answer to the question you posed to neal is why would merrick garland wait for january 6th? because january 6th team ahead of where doj is quite possibly. that could be an explanation, we don't know that to be the case. one of the genius points that the january 6th committee has

really put before the american people is just how clear the president, president trump's intent was to violate the law. he knew it was illegal and by the way, that's another thing we're going to get from. zepiloni. i told the president it was unlawful, it was el legal. i told him he had no case. the more you ratchet up the intent part, the more i think criminality goes to the president's doorstep and the stronger a case would be the department of justice would bring. >> and i want to come back to you, blayne, because it sounds like if you look at the list and i'll put it up for our viewers, these are the people subpoenaed already by district attorney fani willis, it's rudy giuliani, john eastman, jenna ellis, cleta mitchell, kennest cheeseboro, jacki pick beason and senator lindsey graham. if you go to the intent, all these people knew that a

republican governor and republican secretary of state and his republican lieutenants have thrice counted the votes of georgia and there were not the votes donald trump said there were. how much of this knowingly pedding false conspiracy part of what d.a. will sis probing? >> reporter: i think that is a big part of it. i asked her how big of a scope will we see in the investigation and does this go beyond fulton county? she was clear her focus is fulton county. anything that happened in the county will have wider implications but she's focused on what happens here. i think we can expect to see anybody who made a phone call to officials here in fulton county, talking about lindsey graham, former president trump but if there were any other phone calls those are some things she's looking at closely, any contact with any georgia officials during what turned out to be week's long period of counts and recounts, she's going to be looking likely at any communication with the

officials, people who came down here to georgia as we know, there were a number of trump associates that made trips to fulton county, it's likely she'll issue subpoenas to all of those people as well. one more thing i want to mention, nicole, she's doing all of this while receiving a number of threats. i do think that's important to point out as well at the beginning of the year, she asked for increased security and i asked her if she is getting threats. she says yes in some cases racist threats, people attacking her as a black woman, getting vile phone calls around her work in this and she said she has had to increase and up her security because of that. i do think that's something important also to point out as well she, her office also something they're weathering as they continue with the wide-ranging investigation, nicole. >> jeremy, i want to give you the last word on this point you introduced into the conversation, that's evidence of intent. is the georgia episode as important to proving trump's intent, just hearing his voice

on the phone where he's asking for just one more than he needs? what does that prove in terms of a fraud or investigation? >> it proves he knew he lost, and it proves he knew that the only way he was going to show that he won was to engage in corrupt, the corrupt act of pressuring subordinate officials to change the election results. that is election interference, that's election fraud, that's a crime. >> blayne alexander, who has the interview of not just the hour, an interview of the day, thank you so much for taking the time to share it with us and talk to us. jeremy bash, thank you for starting us off today. it's very nice to see you, my friend. neal drew the short stick and is sticking around for the whole hour. up next for us, the dis-united states, two americas emerging from the reality in the battle over abortion rights that could be coming to a courthouse near you. plus one state where the insurrectionists may be losing

their grip on local republicans, what gop leaders are throwing their support behind a prominent anti-big lie democrat, and a warning to extremists ahead of future january 6th hearings that their role in the coup plot at the capitol is about to break into public view. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. after a quick break. after a quick break. don't gooven you financed is taking care of dinner and desert. you're remembering how to tie a windsor. and while your washer is getting out those grass stains. you're practicing for the big leagues! anywh. for all of life's moments get the brands you trust to get the job done

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>> every single life is precious. this tragedy is horrific. i can't imagine, i've never had anybody in my family or myself gone through anything like this. i can't even imagine but in south dakota, the law today is that abortions are illegal except to save the life of the mother. >> you would be okay with that, a 10-year-old girl having to have a baby? >> no, i'm never okay with that. >> there you have it. that is the difference the dividing line in america now. new jersey's democratic governor to protect women's rights and their aing cess to health care, immediately after the supreme court ruling. he says it proves they don't value women or their bodies or curtain number two, the republican governor of south dakota with no promises to protect the next 10-year-old girl who becomes pregnant through rape and abuse, forced by the state, by her home state to deliver that baby.

it is the dividing line of a super majority in court described as the dis-united states divided as a red/blue action. today "the times" highlights the new front line in the abortion wars. the state supreme courts will determine decisions to expand or completely ban the procedure in several states. "in florida, seven justices appointed by republican governors will decide whether the state constitutions explicit right to privacy which protected abortion rights and past rulings remains a precedent." in michigan a court with a majority of democratic nominees hases been asked to conclude whether a 91-year-old law banning abortions is constitutional. in kentucky, a decision on a ban on almost all abortions appears bound to a supreme court composed largely of nonpartisan

elected justices. joining our conversation, lexi mccann none, political reporter for "axios" an msnbc contributor and neal katyal is back. lexi, i want to start on the idea of a complete fracture based on what state you live in. it feels like neither party was prepared for just this. what has shifted already in the political conversations just since the supreme court overturned roe versus wade? >> so much has changed for the democrats for sure. we talked about this last time i saw, i nicole. folks on the left pro-choice side of things are looking at the down ballot races but rarely if ever had any national attention, talking about state supreme court races, district attorney races and ballot initiatives and ballot measures coming up in states like kansas and michigan and others in these primaries in general elections

that we're going to see in the next couple of months. and they're doing that because they know that, as the federal government hasn't enshrined any sort of abortion protections into law. the supreme court has obviously overturned roe, leaving it up to the states to really decide abortion rights. it's going to depend where you live, whether you can have access to that right, and so organizations like the aclu, my reporting shows have launched these new initiatives to spend millions of dollars, millions in these down ballot very local races because they will be in positions of interpreting their state's constitution to decide whether or not bans on the books or protections on the books will be able to stand and district attorneys of course matter because they will be in the position of determining whether to charge someone who is in violation of a state abortion ban, so there's a lot more going on. we used to talk about governors as the folks who were really the ones to watch, and that's certainly still true, but the

down ballot races are getting more attention from the left and they have for years from the right. >> so to that point, neal, let me read you a little bit more of that "new york times" reporting. national political parties and interest groups will focus their money and attention this fall on state supreme courts in four states -- illinois, michigan, north carolina and ohio. more elections could flip the court's majority from democratic to republican or vice versa. six of seven justices on the democratic-led supreme court in kansas must stand for retention elections and some likely to become targets of republicans infuriated by the court's ruling in 2019 that abortion is a constitutional right. arkansas republicans are backing a former chairman of the state party against a democratic incumbent justice in an effort to scrub remaining moderates from the already conservative court. we have so many conversations about what democrats would need in the united states senate to be filibuster proof. we do not talk all that often

about state supreme courts, talk about how prominently they play into this conversation. >> very prominently, and so just to back up for a moment, so our viewers understand, nicole, whenever there's an abortion restriction, it could be a challenge of violation of the federal constitution, like the right to privacy, or state constitutions and what the u.s. supreme court last week decided in that mississippi case called dobbs was that the u.s. constitution doesn't provide any barrier to abortion restrictions. the u.s. supreme court cannot say anything about state constitutions, even though they're called the supreme court, they're not supreme when it comes to matters of state law. so state law, state constitutions can sometimes they have an explicit right to privacy like you mentioned florida does. other times they have the exact same text as the united states constitution but state courts interpret the very same words in an entirely different way. so what's going on now in the states in the last week are challenges to these abortion

restrictions are being filed in state court under state constitutional provisions, and these challengers that are inevitable in some places they may provide some relief, like michigan is one place. the problem is that the republican party has spent $21 million just in the last few years on these state supreme court races. the democrats haven't done anything nearly the same. the republican dark money here through things like the judicial crisis network and the like is extreme. i don't think we should emphasize this too much in the sense of the republican party has really captured some of these state courts, and even when there's expressed text in the constitution like florida, which says the florida text is that every natural person is free from governmental intrusion into the person's private life, that's the language of the constitution, word for word, that sure seems like it fits abortion to a "t" and the

florida supreme court years ago said that language guaranteed a right to abortion. now the seven justices on the florida supreme court all appointed by republican governors, and republicans like to talk about strict text of the constitution and the like, but here the strict text of the constitution is going to come and bite them, and so let's see what they do. my hope is that they act like judges and justices, and will do the right thing in the face of that clear text, but you know, some of the games that have been played in state courts, you know, are worrisome. >> yes, and it's also a new thing to be receiving scrutiny, so some of it is incumbent on us to watch what they do. alexi, just listening to dana bash's interview there with bright light as a hope for disinfectant, the truth is it is the state bans that are so extreme in many instances, and go far beyond where any even

republican support lies to ban abortion in the cases of rape and incest, to ban abortion even in some instances in the life of the mother is on the line. how are democrats using the most extreme bans to sort of educate their voters and motivate their voters ahead of the midterms? >> i think it kind of plays into this larger narrative we've seen democrats try to aestablish over the last several months which is pointing out they say the republican party is overreaching and more extreme than they have seen before, abortion being the latest example, and it is a great point the states have been the ones to impose and try to impose some of the strictest most extreme bans, we remember texas, kind of flirting with this before the supreme court ultimately made their jobs decision and we were looking to other southern states taking a page out of texas' playbook like mississippi and others, sort of getting stricter and stricter as

they were proposing this legislation at the state level and you know, to neal's point sort of about republicans' investment over time, this is very similar to the republican fight over a decade or more for control of state legislatures, which of course matters because they're the folks who are putting forward these abortion bans and laws, and so this is very reminiscent of the state supreme courts with varying degrees of success and as we talked about, that's where they can be the most extreme because of this investment over a decade or more. >> so interesting, the different battlegrounds of which they played coming into full view. thank you for your reporting. neal sticks around a little longer. up next for us, why republican leaders in pennsylvania are shunning the trumpy guy for governor in their state. we'll talk to the democrat who has won them over, after a quick break. don't go anywhere. over, after k

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now to pennsylvania we go, where a close governor's race is unfolding in pretty dramatic fashion. we learned today a large group of republican leaders thrown support around the democratic nominee for governor, josh shapiro instead of state senator doug mastriano. the group of nine republicans

who said mastriano long a support ef of the disgraced twice impeached ex-president and false claims of fraud in the 2020 election is an extreme candidate who would put our democracy at stake. mastriano's ties to the exchange fringe were highlighted this past weekend when his supporters were seen holding a three-percenters flag during an independence day, a right-wing militia identified as an extremist group. the group played a part in the january 6th attack on the united states capitol. joining us now pennsylvania attorney general and democratic nominee for governor, josh shapiro. hello there, my friend. it's nice to see you. there's been so much happening and we want to get back to the campaign trail, this seems like a perfect day. let me put up the names, these are real republicans, charlie dent, jim greenwood, former says it hout speaker denny o'brien,

senator robert jubelirer and former state supreme court justice sandra schultz newman. tell us how you got all of the endorsements and how you got them today. >> you know, i've been talking to democrats, republicans and independents all across pennsylvania, and i think it's important to note that these prominent officials represent all corners of our commonwealth. it includes the first woman supreme court justice. it includes as you said people who are long-time servants of the republican party and also includes the head of the county commissioners from one of the most conservative counties in pennsylvania who currently serves and they've all come together largely for different reasons. number one, they fear that the dangerous extremism of my opponent, and number two, they know i'm a guy with a long track record of bringing people together to actually get things done, which is what people want now more than ever. they want folks to get things

done, make their lives a little bit better and they trust i'll be able to do that. look, my opponent has said his number one priority, his words, not mine, is banning all abortions with no exceptions and criminalizing doctors. he's not talking about cutting costs or improving education or public safety or growing the economy and these republican leaders trust me to do that work and bring people together. >> it is really outside the mainstream. a ban on all abortions and a ban on -- does he oppose exceptions for rape and incest and life of the mother? >> his words, not mine, he leaves no way for exceptions, not for rape or incest or to protect the life or health of the woman, and nicole, this isn't some theoretical exercise or some political litmus test. this is a real nit pennsylvania, because we know with this legislature, they will continue to put bills on the desk of the governor and the next governor to ban all abortions.

my opponent will sign it. he said it's his number one priority. will veto any bill that undermine's a woman's right to choose here in pennsylvania. >> he's also associating with some of the most extreme elements that are now i think tragically a part of the gop coalition, and that's the three percenters. talk about those associations and you know, clearly support he's willing to showcase. >> it's not only associations. i would maybe respectfully push back on you, nicole. this is what makes up the base, the core of his campaign and i was shocked as were so many families this weekend, when i walked in the glenside parade, i'm smiling because i love that parade. i've marched in it 21 years in a row now, nicole. this is a place i go with my kids, other families show up and the goal when you're there is to see a bunch of shiny, red fire trucks, grab candy that gets

thrown your way, salute the american flag and celebrate our freedoms and it was shocking i think to so many that shortly after i marched through the parade with my contingent, the contingent for my opponent marched through with a three percenters flag, marched through with a flag representing division and terrorism and hate. that's what he brought to our suburban community and nicole, he brought it to our suburban community just a couple hours after the highland park massacre at their parade. it just demonstrates how dangerous and extreme he is that these are the people he's associating with. these are the people that he brought in to suburban philadelphia on a day when we should be celebrating our freedoms, he brought in that dangerous extremism. >> and as you point out, a day when we were the lucky ones, right, we came home from our parades. >> right. >> i do want to put up a poll in this state, this is the "usa

today"/suffolk university poll from last wednesday. you are ahead 44%. his 40% with his views so out of the mainstream on abortion, with his views on welcoming into and as you say having a main part of his base being these extremist groups, who is the 40%? >> look, here's what i know about pennsylvania. it's always close here. nicole, go back and look at our last two presidential races. they were each settled by less than one percentage point. here is the good news. in 2016, when secretary clinton lost pennsylvania, i won, and in 2020, when a lot of other democrats lost, i won and earned more votes than anyone in the history of pennsylvania running for any office any time. i know how to win tough races. we're prepared to do it again this time. that said, i think this should be a wake-up call for people. >> yes. >> this person i'm running against is really dangerous. he associates with terrorist

groups. he wants to ban and criminalize all abortion. it is why so many republicans are now joining our campaign together with democrats and independents and you cited at the top of the show several prominent republican elected officials who endorsed me this morning. it's important to note that is just the first wave. there are going to be more republicans joining our campaign, elected and former public servants. we're proud of the big coalition we're building. i'm confident we're going to win. i'm also sure it's going to be close. >> when i worked on campaigns, it's always double edged to show a close poll, right? you remind people that every vote matters, but it is also really an amazing sign of the times and you live in an important battleground. pennsylvania attorney general josh shapiro thank you for spending some time with us today. >> thank you, nicole. after the break, for us, a warning to some of the extremists we've been talking about over the last two hours, from the january 6th select

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so you can go and see all those, lovely, lemony, lemons. ♪ and never wonder if you got a good deal. because you did. ♪ i don't want to get too far ahead of what we intend to present in our next hearings but our they next hearings will be focused on the efforts to assemble that mob on the mall, who was participating, who was financing it, how it was organized, including the participation of these white nationalist groups like the proud boys and the three

percenters and others, and so we'll be presenting information we have. we haven't answered all the questions that we have. we continue our investigation into precisely the issue you're describing. >> we're back with neal. neal, what question -- i mean, the committee is so are describing. >> what question? the committee is so artful at teasing out. they're not getting ahead of the evidence. what do you expect to see tying the extremist groups to the act and perhaps even to the white house? >> yeah. i am such a fan of the way that january 6th committee has proceeded. basically there are two buckets of people in this investigation. one, the extremists who went and attacked the capitol . the other, the higher up people, trump, people around him at the white house and the people like rudy giuliani who worked in government, who were working

with trump on all of this. what the january 6th committee did, they helped confirm the high-level people. this hearing next week is going to focus more on the extremists themselves. then the question is what is the glue between these two different groups? we started to get hints of that. for example, trumps white house counsel was revealed by a cassidy hutchinson said his lawyer said donald trump, you know, will face every crime in the book if he marches down to the capitol . we want to know the context of that. what did he know? who did he say it to? because he is going before the committee in a closed-door session on friday, they may get answers to that and that will provide more of the glue between the two different groups of people. they have done a very good job

at prosecuting people in that first group. there are 800 people or so that have been indicted, but now the question is what is the glue between that and the high-level officials? >> we know from last week, neil, the president planned it to be with the first group the first day and his knowledge of who they would hurt and who they would not hurt was so intimate that he wanted to march alongside them even after learning of the secret service radio traffic they were in trades with ar 15 style weapons, knives, spears. i mean, what else is there that we need to know what? we know kevin mccarthy called cassidy hutchinson irate and trump said i'll be with you. what else do we need to close that link? >> it is markable, nicolle. even when they were told about the ar 15 guns, his response was remove the magnet detectors.

i think your question is exactly the right one. what else do we need to make a criminal prosecution? i'm not sure you need more than what we have. it's better to have it from the forces as opposed to someone else who is saying what he said and that's why i have been saying for months that he needs to be subpoenaed. i'm glad to see he was and he will go and testify. i hope he testifies in a truthful way. i'm sure it will be truthful, but he said i don't want to hear anything about privilege or this or that. president obama's white house counsel has written a long piece of security that just demolishes any sort of privilege claims that cipollone might try to argue. he faced a lot of professional consequences if he tries to adopt these bogus charges. >> for all of the hours and the depositions that have been entered for this very dramatic

testimony, we know the committee had access to the extremists and we haven't seen any of those. what do you think we should expect or do you think we will expect to hear from any of those? >> yeah, i think we will. there will be pretty remarkable testimony. the investigators are so good at eliciting testimony that lays to a national audience. you know, you have the trump lawyer who says, you know, you better get a great lawyer and the likes because you're about to commit serious crimes. and so they have done a great job. what they have been doing strategically is focusing on the high-level folks. the hearing on tuesday, i expect we will hear some of that here it's a little different, nicole, because we've seen those people invading the capitol and we know exactly what they did and so that hearing on tuesday is important

but i think it's really the next one which strides ties together and that will be the important one. >> thank you so much for spending the whole hour with us. it's great to have you for the whole hour. we are grateful. a quick break for us and we will be right back. right back , we noticed clarity that we didn't notice before. - it's still helping me. i still notice a difference. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. [whistling] with technology that can scale across all your clouds...

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it will release your fat and it will release you. before we go today, we want to tell you more about the people who went to a fourth of july parade on monday in highland park and it didn't come home. this is eduardo uvaldo . he would have been 70 this friday. he was a kind, loving, and adoring grandfather and loving husband. so was steve straus. he was described as sweet and sharp. his family told the tribune steve didn't have a preference between the white sox and the cubs but, "he would probably tell you whatever you wanted to

hear. he is like that." and then there is katie goldstein. she died running from the shooter. she was right next to her daughter who told nbc news this, "i got to have 22 years with the best mom in the world. i did everything with her. she was my best friend." nicholas toledo's family remembers him. he was a sweet and caring grandfather. he loved to color, fish, to walk around town, to joke, laugh, to eat a home-cooked meal. the good stuff. a neighbor tells the chicago tribune that jacki sundheim was a caring wife. she rescued dogs. she was a lifelong member of the north shore congregation israel. one fellow congregant insisted

he couldn't remember a time we walked into the sanctuary and she wasn't standing at the door to greet people. and finally, we heard this story in the last hour. arena mccarthy and kevin mccarthy leave behind a 2-year- old son, a baby boy. kevin died while shielding and protecting him. the gofundme in their honor has raised $2.5 million for that riddle boy, who is expected to be cared for and raised by other members of their family. seven victims known and mourned by hundreds of friends and family and neighbors who are forced to live with this, to cope with lifelong holes in their heart. our thoughts are with each and every one of them today and the days and weeks and years to come. our thanks to you for letting us into your homes tonight. hi, jason. >> foggy so much for that,