got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling] i'm jason johnson. that does it for me. ari will be back tomorrow. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight, on "the reidout" -- >> i think people thought that we came into this as some kind of game. this is not a game at all. >> bonnie willis means business. after the nearly unprecedented subpoena of a sitting united states senator, the georgia prosecutor says she's not done with her investigation of trump's effort to find votes to reverse the results of the

election and that trump himself could be next. also tonight, mary trump joins me as her uncle's constant demand for loyalty is severely tested. more people are coming forward to reveal what they know about the big lie including trump's former white house lawyer pat cipollone. as access to abortion gets more scarce by the day, we're asking the question tonight, how long before an american woman is prosecuted for having an abortion? we begin with unprecedented measures. today fulton county district attorney bonnie willis spoke out after a special grand jury sent a fresh round of subpoenas in her investigation into interference in georgia's 2020 vote. it's worth noting that one of the recipients is pretty extraordinary. among those summoned was sitting united states senator lindsey graham for information on his phone calls to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger

questioning legally cast mail-in ballots. it's not every day that a united states states senator is subpoenaed in a criminal investigation, let alone a criminal investigation into potential crimes involving a former president of the united states. today in an exclusive interview with nbc's blayne alexander d.a. willis made clear she's not afraid to do a lot of unprecedented things in her investigation. >> could we expect to possibly see additional subpoenas from people in former president trump's inner circle or trump associates? >> yes. >> are we talking about family members, former white house officials? >> what i'm doing is very serious, it's very important work, and we're going to do our due diligence is making sure that we look at all aspects of the case. >> might we see a subpoena of the former president himself? >> anything is possible. >> we're not ruling out that it's possible? >> absolutely. >> willis says the grand jury should hear directly from the people involved in trying to overturn georgia's election. in a statement an attorney for

lindsey graham says he intends to fight the subpoena adding, quote, in my conversations with fulton county investigators, i have been informed that senator graham is neither a subject nor the target of the investigation, simply a witness. this is all politics. fulton county is engaged in a fishing expedition in working in con sefrt with the january 6th committee in washington. unquote. well, willis responded to that charge in realtime. >> what do i have to gain from these politics? it's an inaccurate estimation. it's someone that doesn't understand the seriousness of what we're doing. >> willis said she hopes graham will come forward and testify truthfully. but she indicated she would -- how she would handle resistance from any of the seven subpoenaed members of team maga. >> nobody wants to come to the prosecutor's party. that's just kind of part of the work that we do. we'll take it before the judge and the judge will make a ruling if we have a legal right to bring them before the court.

my job is not to bring you here because you want to come. my job is to make sure that the grand jurors get all the evidence they want. >> as willis evasion edges closer to the former president's inner circle and possibly trump itself, it stands in stark contrast to the other potential legal liability the former president has faced. two prosecutors resigned in february after new manhattan district attorney alvin bragg expressed doubts about indicting the federal president and effectively paused the investigation. trump and two of his children must testify in new york attorney general latisha james' parallel investigation into the trump organization next week. that's a civil investigation. meanwhile, in the house january 6th committee's investigation, vice chair liz cheney has indicated there could be multiple criminal referrals against the former president but emphasized the justice department doesn't have to wait for recommendation to take

action. willis stressed in her investigation that no one, no one is above the law. >> if you come into my community and you commit a crime, you deserve to be held responsible. i don't care what your race is. i don't care what your gender is. i don't care the status you've reached. i don't care who you care to love. to justice is blind. if he committed a crime in my jurisdiction, it includes him. >> joining me is former assistant watergate prosecutor and former u.s. district attorney for the district of new york. paul butler, former u.s. prosecutor and david jolly former republican congressman no longer affiliated with the party. lindsey graham, this is actually a very big deal for a sitting united states senator to be subpoenaed in a criminal investigation. here is what his lawyer said about what he did that made him of interest to attorney bonnie willis. as chairman of the senate

judiciary committee senator graham was well within his rights to discuss with state officials the processes and procedures around administering elections. that sounds find. graham asked whether brad raffensperger, the secretary of state had the power to toss all mail ballots in counties found to have higher rates of non-matching signatures. raffensperger said he was stunned that graham appeared to suggest he find a way to toss legally-cast ballots. it sure looked like he was wanting to go down that road, said raffensperger. in your mind, nick, when you think about what lipid sigh graham did, is it as obvious to you as it is to his lawyers that he's not a target, that he's simply a witness? >> i wouldn't say merely a witness. he's got to be a subjects of

this investigation. he's got to be somebody that the grand jury is going to be looking at. was he part of trump's scheme to basically steal the vote in georgia? this is the one case where prosecutors have really got the goods on trump. this is where they've got him on tapes, two tapes. they've got rudy giuliani on tape. this is unlike the case you mentioned before, the tax case in new york, where you had no real witness against donald trump or possibility of the former comptroller maybe flipping. it's all on paper. there's nothing that ties trump to it. trump is on tape-recorded evidence here. he can't cross examine it. he can't hide from itment it's there. it shows him pressuring and threatening brad raffensperger. it certainly seems like lindsey graham was part of the same scheme. i wouldn't assume that lindsey

graham is simply a witness in this case. >> paul, let me just give a list of all the people -- this is the latest set of subpoenas, lindsey graham, rudy giuliani, john eastman, jenna ellis, part of trump's legal team, cleta mitchell who sat in on that very call where trump asked to find 11,780 votes, kenneth chesebro who worked to coordinate alternate electors and someone called jack i deason. it looks like what bonnie willis is zeroing in on is not just the call, but the fake elector scheme as well. >> that's right. willis sounded more like a local sheriff than a prosecutor who said if you come into my jurisdiction and commit a crime, you'll be charged with a crime. she threw the buck at school

teachers in atlanta who she charged with racketeering and a cheating scandal. now it looks like her next big racketeering case might be the first prosecution ever of a former president. prosecutor willis seems to think about this case as about equal justice under the law. prosecutors bring cases if they think it's in the public interest and if they think they can persuade a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. trump incriminated himself. he committed election fraud on tape when he asked the secretary of state to find the votes. trying to steal georgia's electoral votes is the same kind of local crime as if he walked into the walmart in atlanta and tried to steal a baseball cap. >> so it seems so crystal clear and so debt to rights, 2k5id.

the response she's been getting. let me play a little more of this extraordinary interview. this is bonnie willis saying she's received threats. there you go. >> have you gotten threats specifically because of your investigation into the former president? >> yes, and a lot of racist comments. it's foolishness. i'm a black woman, insulting me with racial slurs maybe entertains them. it's of no consequence to me. >> the usual maga foolishness she's getting for defending the law in the state of georgia i wonder if there's a sense that above that level, sort of muck i can, gross base level there's some republicans who might be kind of rooting for this david. i'm thinking about mitch mcconnell who said this quote, this was about the i'm impeachment, mitch mcconditional, from the book "this too shall pass" the

democrats are going to take care of this son of a bitch for us. it will be the black lady in georgia. >> quite ironic. you know who can help solve the threats of violence an racism? mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham. he should be the first to condemn the epithets coming towards the prosecutor in fulton county but he's not. he's hiding from her. it's almost comical how perfectly lindsey graham this moment is, the guy that lights the fire wants to run from it. here is the other great irony in lindsey graham's behavior in this moment, and i would say go to mitch mcconnell and others which is this. you know what ultimately will lead to the subpoena of donald trump? lindsey graham's lack of cooperation. if he said there was a legitimate legislative purpose. i wasn't doing this on behalf of

the president. if he wanted to go under oath and say that was the nature of my phone call, it gets very hard for the fulton county prosecutor to then subpoena donald trump. but it's very easy without lindsey graham for the fulton county prosecutor to say, you know what, judge, because of the lack of cooperation of lindsey graham, we have reason to believe that we need to bring under subpoena the former president of the united states. >> paul, is that how you'd play it if you were the prosecutor in this case? >> i sure would. graham has no privilege. he wasn't employed by the white house. so he can't claim executive privilege. even if he could, there's that crime fraud exception. he's not a subject now. he's a witness. you're a witness unless and until the witness makes you a subject or target of the investigation. but graham would almost certainly take the fifth, and so

would trump if he's subpoenaed. this news is earth shaking, not because we're likely to hear testimony from these folk, but because it's the clearest indication so far that d.a. willis is focusing on the former president of the united states. >> absolutely. the news keeps coming. nick, i want to throw this to you. this came out while we were preparing to put the show together. this is a "new york times" bombshell headline. it turns out in 2017 and 2019 james comey and andrew mccabe, two justice department foes, people that donald trump thought were foes faced intensive irs audits, the kind that people don't normally get, people call the autopsy without the benefit of death is the nickname for them. what do you make of the fact that two people that donald trump's dodge investigated, who he persecuted personally, saw as his enemies, magically get these

unprecedented audits, both mccabe and comey? >> extremely suspicious. this is what i investigated as part of our process in the watergate investigation. richard nixon had an en any's list and provided it the list to people at the irs to get them audited. this is precisely what nixon did to make life miserable for people he didn't like. he did it with the irs commissioner. he also had larry o'brien, the chairman of the democratic national committee audited. there's a very specific way to get to this, and that's looking at all the documentation relating to the audit, trying to figure out who touched the returns, who asked for the audit, how did it originate. irs has very specific documents that one has to fill out before they do anything on this kind of investigation. and that should -- the question is will that lead right back to the white house.

>> charles p. red dig whose term expires in november, he was basically allowed by the current president to stay in until his term expired, it is just to be clear, nick ackerman, a crime for anyone at the irs to call for the audit of any individual person, right? >> no question about it, absolutely a crime. we did not have enough evidence to actually prosecute anybody for that crime, but it's a fairly easy crime to investigate, and i'm sure as a result of this article that came out in the times tonight that somebody is going to be looking at this. >> there are coincidences, but sometimes they make a lot of work to make happen. nick ackerman, paul butler and thank you. mary trump joins me as pat cipollone prepares to tell what he heard and saw in the plot to overturn the election. "the reidout" returns after this. o overturn the election.

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the january 6th committee is getting closer and closer to trump's inner circle. having struck a deal with former white house council pat cipollone to sit down for a closed door videotaped interview on friday. the committee announced it will hold its next public hearing next tuesday focused on the trump world connections to the violent organizations that carried out the capitol insurrection. while no witnesses have been announced, former deputy secretary sarah matthews agreed

to testify at an upcoming here. as information comes out about his culpability about the insurrection, those around him will make a choice between remaining loyal or telling truth and standing up for democrats. mary trump, it's always good to see you. before we get to the meat of this segment, i want to ask you about this bombshell "new york times" report that two people that donald trump had severely targeted, james comey and andrew mccabe were targeted for irs audits. this is what michael schmidt summarized it. the min kuhl chances of the two highest ranking fbi officials who made the most politically consequential law enforcement decisions being randomly selective a few years after leaving their posts. what do you make of that? it seems surprising given who donald trump is. >> of course. but it is important to emphasize

just how vanishingly small the chances are that this was indeed random. we're talking about tens and tens of millions of people and 8,000 pulled randomly that two of donald's so-called enemies would end up being audited in this way is almost impossible. it just shows you that we're only looking at the tip of the iceberg here. we have no idea who else has been in the crosshairs, and as things ramp up in both the january 6th hearing and in georgia as you've been talking about, it will be fascinating to see what else is uncovered in this light. >> absolutely. out of nearly 153 million individual returns filed for 2017, for example, the irs targeted about 5,000 people out of 153 million. so it's fannishingly small.

let's go to pat cipollone. liz cheney, the vice chair has been adamant she wants to hear from him. the committee needs to hear from him. here is what cassidy hutchinson, an aide to mark meadows said about pat cipollone's meadows that trump should not, not go to the capitol. >> mr. cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go to the capitol, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> knowing donald trump as you do, what do you think he might have done if he had gone to the capitol? >> joy, i've been thinking about that a lot, because it doesn't make sense if donald thought for a second he was going to be in harm's way -- quite honestly, when i first heard months ago he was going to go to the capitol, i didn't think it was true

because he's such a physical coward. but then we hear he knows the people are armed, we know the proud boys and oath keepers were on board from the very beginning. i'm beginning to -- he knew they were going to be there to escort him into the building where he would make his play on the floor of congress. again, it's speculation. i can't think of any other scenario in which he would put himself in such a position. he needed to feel 100% confident that she was going to be just fine. >> when you take that and you put cassidy hutchinson's testimony about apparently lunging for the wheel, demanding, i'm the f'ing president, take me to the capitol, in your view, he wouldn't demand to go when he knew there were people armed, which he did, unless he felt he was being escorted by armed men into the well of the house. >> right. let's assume for the sake of

argument that this story about his lunging for the steering wheel and physically assaulting a secret service agent is true, and there's no reason to believe that story is not true at this point, he only did that knowing that these people can't fight back, right? >> yep. >> so at the same time he knows that the clock is running out. this was his last chance to make sure that he got the results he wanted which was to overturn the results of the 2020 election in which he lost. >> pat cipollone's testimony i assume will destabilize donald trump mentally. this is somebody who knew everything. this is white house counsel. he knew all the dirty deeds going on and believed them to be illegal. what do you believe is going inside maga world, the inner circle, thinking about that testimony come? >> i assume the plates and catch up bottles have been batoned

down. it's not a pleasant place to be. at you mentioned at the top of the show, this is closing in on all sides now. in fact, i think the situation in georgia is much more of an immediate risk to donald right now because d.a. willis seems to have this nailed down, and she understands stands at least as well as anybody else that donald trump's entire life is a rico case. she has the goods, shall we say. >> indeed. i want to -- the one place donald trump does seem to count on absolute loyalty is sort of out in the world of maga voters and state level maga politicians and obviously members of congress, people at the political level, but also the voting level. there is a pretty wild poll that asked republican voters what do they want republican midterm candidates to focus on? more than half, 52% said they want their candidates to focus on loyalty to trump.

what do you make of that? not on issues, not on inflation, not on nothing, just loyalty to trump? >> besides finding it unbearably embarrassing, i think it shows the extent to which people have been taken in. human beings hate being wrong and much like the person that they will follow to the edge of the earth despite the fact that that's a one-way street, they're going to double down because otherwise everything they've believed in, everything they've sacrificed for will be shown to be a lie. that is something i think most of them cannot grapple with. so here we are. 52%. that's the same percentage who thinks he's a better president than abraham lincoln. it shouldn't really surprise us. >> even in the end, many of jim jones' followers refused to drink the kool-aid which is why there was so much mass carnage in his fake madeup place in

guiana. mary trump, thank you. really appreciate you. coming up next, mayor nancy wroten berg joins me after america's latest high profile mass shooting. we'll be right back. mass shooting. we'll be right back.

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police say the gunman being held without bail on seven counts of murder has confessed to the horrific mass shooting in highland park, illinois.

officials still don't know his motive but said he contemplated using his semi-automatic rifle from which he shot 83 rounds in a second shooting in madison where he drove after escaping the scene. we're learning more about the shooting. irina and kevin mccarthy were attending the paer read with their son aiden, found alone. jacqueline sundheim was a preschool teacher. stephen straus, the 88-year-old was energetic beyond his years. nicholas toledo hadn't wanted him to go to the parade, but the family brought him because his disabilities meant he couldn't be left alone. eduardo uvaldo went with his family who attend every year. katie goldstein, mourning her

mother's death, had been looking to get out of the house to have some fun when she attended the parade. >> i told her it was a shooter, and she started to run. i started running with her. he shot her in the chest and she fell down. i knew she was dead. so i just told her that i loved her but i couldn't stop because he was still shooting everyone next to me. i got 22 years with her. i got to have 22 years of the best mom in the world. >> beyond the nearly 40 people injured on monday, many were left traumatized. nbc's dasha burns spoke to 11 and 9-year-old sisters. >> scared of maybe some louder noises when there was fireworks, that scared me. >> i'm still scared of big

noises, so like police sirens and stuff. >> i'm probably not going to go to anymore parades. >> i feel scared at now parades, thinking about this would happen again. >> as the community grieves, we're learning more about how the gunman was able to legally obtain his weapons. besides police receiving a clear and present danger report on robert crimo after he threatened to kill family members in 2019, they weren't able to stop him from purchaing those weapons since his father sponsored his request. the shooting also highlighted the limitations of local gun control without a federal assault weapons ban. though the weapon he used in highland park was banned, he was able to obtain it elsewhere. joining me mayor of highland mark nancy rotering. as we put up a list of people who died unnecessarily on july

4th, how is the city coping, how is that toddler left alone faring? >> the toddler is going to be in my heart for the rest of my life. that story came to me pretty soon after we all had sought shelter, i was getting texts with his pick tour and saying we have this baby, we don't know who he belongs to. first we tried to skaul the hospitals, nobody was claiming him. at that point i had a feeling that nobody was claiming him because he was no longer alive. he's with his grandparents. there's a gofundme created for him. it just breaks my heart. this was a day that started off so joyfully. we hadn't had a parade for two years. we had several generations together to celebrate. the weather was perfect. it was an unbelievable feeling of everybody coming together, and it's just incomprehensible

to me that somebody from our community would bring this sort of violence and evil to our streets. it just doesn't make sense. so how are we doing? we're sad and we're furious. i've been walking around talking to people and telling anybody who comes to me that i'm hugging them before we're talking. people are crying. people are coming from all over the region. it's not just people from highland park. because i think a lot of people view us as their city. most people sort of few the quintessential midwestern town and we're that, on the fourth of july. it doesn't get more american. sadly, to have a mass shooting in the middle of it, unfortunately is also making us very typically american. >> indeed. vice president kamala harris was in town and you saw her and met up with her yesterday. let me play a little bit of what she had to say. >> we've got to be smarter as a country in terms of less access

to particular assault weapons, and we've got to take this stuff seriously, as seriously as you are because you've been forced to take it seriously. the whole nation should understand and have a level of empathy to understand that this can happen anywhere. >> it has to be incredibly frustrating to have a city that has very strong gun safety laws but trumped by the laws outside of your city and at a larger level by the supreme court essentially saying to every man a gun, but specifically that long guns, assault-style rifles, because they're rifles are essentially unregulated at all. talk about the frustration of the fact that there are no existing gun laws that could have stopped this man from getting his firearm? >> that's been my beef all along. every single time we've heard about a mass shooting, it's always prefaced by, it was legally acquired, the weapon was legally acquired. to me that says we've been

failing to pass appropriate laws for years and years and years since i don't know when, sandy hook. let's talk about we as a city passed our assault weapons ban in the wake of sandy hook. the state of illinois gave us a very small window in which to pass that law and so we did. that window has shut. but let's be clear, it needs to be a national ban. there's nothing to stop anybody from going to missouri or indiana. those are close enough places, picking up whatever they want and coming back into illinois. so there can't be a patchwork. anybody who will listen to me, i'm begging you. until this horror is in your front yard, you don't quitend stand the magnitude of the carnage. for poor cassie goldstein to know her mother had already died and to have to take off and leave her lying in the street to save her own life. and we heard that story several times. my own husband was right there. he has seen things nobody should ever seen.

when senator duckworth came to town, she talked to us about how she had never heard sounds like that since she was in combat in iraq. these are combat weapons, these are weapons built specifically to destroy large swaths of humanity rapidly, why on earth those needs to be available on the streets of america makes no sense to me. i think we need to do something about it. i know we've been talking about it for decades. i don't know what it will take in in country for somebody to say enough is enough. i'm here as the mayor of one of the most middle cities of america saying, if this doesn't get your attention f sandy hook didn't get your attention, if uvalde didn't get your attention, i don't know what you're talking about. frankly, let's say, mental health is an issue. it's an issue throughout this world. i'm kind of fed up with mitch mcconnell in his statement about, oh, we need to do more about mental health when republicans aren't funding mental health. we need to put more resources

towards mental health services and help people get the help they need. let's be clear, it's unique in america that you can also access an assault weapon and use that to show how you're feeling about the world. >> absolutely. this is not church, not sunday. but you can get an i'm men from me and everyone watching the show. highland park mayor nancy rotering. god bless you and everyone in your sit tea. still ahead, how long will it be until an american woman is prosecuted for terminating a pregnancy in post roe america? perhaps more importantly, what, if anything, are political leaders prepared to do to fix this awful mess. back after this. this awful mess. back after this. why choose proven quality sleep from the sleep number 360 smart bed?

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back in april, even before the topping of roe a texas woman was charged with murder for allegedly inducing her abortion. prosecutors later acknowledged there was no legal basis for the charges, but the case is a cautionary tale. five years ago a black mother of three from mississippi experienced a stillbirth at roughly 36 weeks. she was jailed after police found that she had searched for abortion information on her phone. "the washington post" reports her search history helped prosecutors charge her with, quote, killing her infant child. in el salvador women have been incarcerated for decades for not

producing a live birth. like carmen vasquez who ended up spending more than ten years in prison for what she always insisted was a stillbirth. americans must also confront such widespread human rights violations as a radical right devours bodily autonomy in this country, where the prosecution of women suspected of purposefully or accidentally ending a pregnancy could become standard practice. a question we must seriously mull over these days is how long before an american woman is prosecuted for an abortion. this isn't a dystopian story line anymore. we wish it were. today is a dark day in the fight, as the last abortion clinic in mississippi has closed. the jackson women's health organization nicknamed the pink house for its bubble gum-colored exterior where protesters clashed in front of these essential, very valuable medical facility which now serves as a symbol of what the women in

mississippi have lost, the last clinic shuttered, done. instituting a near total abortion ban in a state where a republican governor does not support or even believe in exceptions for rape. >> i don't believe an exception for rape will actually make it through the mississippi legislature and make it to my desk. again, there's a lot of effort, particularly in washington and other places, mainly by the democrats, to try to talk only about the real small minor number of exceptions that may exist. >> wow. but what's even worse than a woman prosecuted for a miscarriage or stillbirth, death. in states with strict abortion laws doctors may hesitate before offering essential lifesaving measures when a woman is bleeding out during a miscarriage. remember, the doctors face fears of prosecution, too. that's why activists are setting off alarm bells over the lack of urgency on the national level.

so what can be done about it and why it's the governors who are on the front line. stay with us. on the front line. stay with us

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california governor gavin newsom is taking the fight to authoritarianism rhonda scent is making the claim that all of our freedoms are at stake. he's not the only one. in new york she is making extraordinary gains on abortion rights and gun safety, reminding the supreme court conservatives that they don't get to rule over their state. gretchen whitmer remain central, keeping her state approach's choice free state for women. these governors are leaning into the fight when we need it most. when it comes to democrats in washington, the question is is the fight for some of. joining me now is david profit democratic strategist former dnc communications manager. thank you for being here. trying to start with you david. you worked in the white house. a thing about politics is it -- they're only ever mad at you. there is this whole fight about whether the white house is fighting hard enough.

i want to be fair to the biden administration. biden has come out and says he supports a filibuster for abortion rights. secretary of homeland human services has said he's going to use his authority by the food drug administration to make sure the people can get abortion medication. i'm guns, biden signed that, it's the biggest bill we've had 30 years since the last time biden was involved in one but he did sign something. there is something happening. what do you make of the criticism that it is the governors who are leading in while biden seems to be leaning back? >> i would say that the governors right now protected early if they are incumbents have a lot to say about the current mode. they are either trying to win blue states where the control legislature or trying to force more protections through their legislature or if you are a governor that doesn't have control of the legislature democrat, you're saying you're going to hold the line.

when i do think that the fight is really pronounced unclear. i think what happened needs to happen in washington, democrats in washington need to be clear that every day to say we don't have the votes to overturn the supreme court decision. if we get two more senators than we hold house, if we do that we will be able to overturn what the supreme court did. they should be saying that. every day to talk about these issues. the other thing that has to happen in washington, if you preview this, if you have deaths as we will have, if we have prosecutions of doctors and of women who were seeking abortion services, those need to be highlighted for the american people each and every day. so he raised the stakes here, people understand what's happening. i will say this. michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, arizona, georgia, florida state, these are massive states that have huge governors races.

they all of huge senate races, they have multiple competitive house races, they have key ballot down races. when i think there should be more -- quite frankly people should not be going on vacations, taking breaks. i think the people in the states are absolutely panicked about what happened in supreme court, on what the path forward is. i think the criticism is well founded, not i think we will see more of that in the weeks and months to come. >> so gee, i'm sure you hear this. democrats are here every day even in my own household, that people want to see biden, it's the lord of the rings thing, they want to see you running for more adore right they want to hear the speech that says we are going to take executive action, we're gonna take action against the states. we controller highway funding, we're gonna hit that if they don't stop attacking women. we want gun reform. we are going to do these hard-core things, even if the supreme court says we can't, we

will do it anyway. why don't democrats talk that way at the national level because they do with the state level >> you're right, i think even is right as well. we need to see more urgency. we saw president biden speak out immediately, we saw vice president harris speak out immediately. the reality is, there is very little president biden can do. and i think to david points, we need to start saying listen, we don't really have a majority the, reality as we don't have the votes to pass and overturn roe v. wade. because of the pressure, you saw the administration go out and say i do want to filibuster card out. the reality is, why he didn't say it before is because it's unclear that whether democrats have the votes to do that. i do think to your point joy, a lot of times and david window this, when you are the party in power, it's not about persuasion, it's about

mobilization. mobilizing your voters to turn out. there are very few issues that will mobilize our base and but this is one of them. democrats really have to say it loud and clear, listen, some of you didn't vote in the 2016 election, but i want to let you know this is what happened. now we only to turn out, because the only way we are going to stop what is just happened at the supreme court is by expanding our majority. we need to do that by going to the ballot box. saying that all we have to do is no need to go and vote, will not resonate with people. there are people who voted at in 2020. i saw what donald trump did to our country, and they thought they voted for change, and now they're gonna say why should i go bother turning out when we didn't get what we wanted. we have to remind voters that these elections have a lasting impact, and focusing on states will be critical for the next few decades, and we need democrats need to show more urgency. >> i always tell people,

remember donald trump actually did one thing when he was president. he passed a joint giant tax cut for the superrich. everything else was rhetorical, never took voting until they took down roe v. wade. it took them 50 years. vote like a republican. thank you david, so itchy, thank you. that is tonight's read out, only with chris hayes. tonight on all in, -- >> do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the sixth, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice, or defrauding the electoral count. >> donald trump's white house counsel makes a deal. >> at that point, he said this was a murder suicide pact. >> tonight, what could be the biggest breakthrough yet for the january 6th committee, and what it means for all