good day. i'm andrea mitchell. former japanese prime minister shinzo abe, a longtime u.s. ally, assassinated by a gunman this morning. president biden saying he is stunned, outraged and deeply saddened. the latest on the killing in a moment. we are awaiting remarks from the president as he prepares to take executive action to defend abortion rights in limited ways. access to abortion medication and contraception. this hour, critical testimony by pat cipollone on capitol hill right now before the january 6 committee.

the latest on what he will tell the committee and what we can expect at next week's public hearings. today's hearings are closed. with brittney griner back in her russian jail cell, i will talk to the brother of paul whelan, an american detained by russia since 2018, on what the u.s. considers baseless charges. first, the shocking assassination of shinzo abe. janice, such an important figure internationally, globally and in japan. especially in strengthening their response to chinese aggression, military buildup. >> reporter: former prime minister shinzo abe was a political giant in japan. a prominent figure even after he stepped down no 2020 citing health reasons. he was in nara city giving a

campaign speech, helping out a junior candidate, when shots rang out. it was captured on video. you can hear the shots and then from another angle see smoke billowing above the crowd. abe went down bleeding. he lost consciousness. he was airlifted to hospital where they tried to resuscitate him. he arrived with no vital signs. doctors say they pronounced him dead at 5:03 p.m. local time in japan. the suspected gunman was tackled at the scene. he is said to have a military background. police say he admitted to the crime, saying he wanted to kill abe, not out of political beliefs but with what he called a dissatisfaction or grudge that he had against abe himself. police say they seized a homemade shotgun at the scene, described at 16 inches long. they say they also confiscated other improvised weapons at the

suspect's home. they have now charged him with murder. in the statement from the white house, president biden said he is stunned, outraged, deeply saddened, calling abe's death a tragedy for japan and for people who knew him. mourners -- [ inaudible ] can't be overstated how shocking this is for people in japan that shinzo abe, this towering figure, has been killed. the fact that he was killed in gun violence, it's a country that has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. andrea? >> janice in beijing. this happened just a few hours ago, given the time difference. basically happening earlier this morning, our time. peter alexander, that's a

shocking decision, of course, the assassination of shinzo abe. we wait for the president to come into the roosevelt room and sign some executive orders on contraception and on abortion medication. let's talk for a moment about the response, of course, from the u.s. to losing a key ally. its strongest ally, multilateral leader in japan. >> we heard from the president earlier today. he hasn't spoken to it but did release a statement. the two didn't serve as heads of state at the same time, but had a close relationship when president biden was serving as vice president, meeting with shinzo abe on occasions. the president expressing sadness and outrage about the situation that has taken place in japan, praising abe as someone who was committed to the alliance between the two countries, helping really strengthen that alliance. barack obama posting a statement as well, the former president saying how critical abe was to the relationship between the united states and japan.

certainly one of america's greatest allies in the region as the u.s. was looking for parliamenter ins as it tried to put back against china. >> the president coming in. we expect to hear from him about shinzo abe. >> before i speak to the supreme court extreme decision overturning roe, i want to comment on one piece of good news, economic good news today. today the labor department reported that we added 372,000 jobs last month. 372,000. here is why it's important. our private sector has recovered all of the jobs lost during the pandemic and added jobs on top of that. we have more americans working today in the private sector than any day under my predecessor, more today than any time in american history today. the second quarter of this year, we created more jobs than any quarter under any of my

predecessors in nearly 40 years, before the pandemic. think about that. at a time when our critics said the economy was too weak or having added more jobs -- we added more jobs my first year as president of any president in history. we still added more jobs in the past three months than any administration in nearly 40 years. now look, i know times are tough. prices are too high. families are facing the cost of living crunch. today's economic news confirms the fact that my economic plan is moving this country in a better direction. the unemployment rate is 3.6%. private sector jobs are at a record high. gas prices still way too high, have fallen now 25 days in a row. this week we saw the second largest single day decrease in gas prices in a decade. we still have a lot of work to do. i'm not -- there's a lot more work to do. we are making significant

progress. the program is working. now with the vice president and the deputy attorney general, i want to talk about an executive order i'm signing to protect reproductive rights of women in the aftermath of the supreme court's terrible extreme and i think wrong decision to overturn roe v. wade. in both formalized actions, i announced right after the decision as well as adding new measures today. let's be clear about something from the very start. this was not a decision driven by the constitution. let me say it again. this was not a decision driven by the constitution. despite what those justices in the majority said, this was not a decision driven by history. you have all probably had a chance to read the decision and the dissent. the ma jurorty rattles off laws from the 19th century to support the idea that roe was an anolly because states outlawed abortion in the 1880s toward the end.

that's just wrong. the truth is today's supreme court majority that is playing fast and loose with the facts, even 150years, the common law and state laws did not criminalize abortion early in pregnancy, which is similar to the viability line drawn by roe. the dobbs majority ignores that. it ignores that many laws are enacted to protect women at the time when they were dying from unsafe abortions. this is the horrific reality that roe sought to end. the practice of medicine should not -- should not be frozen in the 19th century. what happened? the dissenting opinion says this as clear as you can possibly say it. here is the quote. neither law nor facts nor attitudes have provided any new reason to reach a different result than roe and casey did.

that has changed -- excuse me. all that changed is this court. end of quote. all that changed is this court. that wasn't about the constitution or the law. it was about a deep long seeded antipathy toward roe and the broader right to privacy. as the justices wrote in their dissent, the majority overruled for one and only one reason, because it despised them. now it has the votes to discard them. end of quote. what we are witnessing wasn't a constitutional judgement. it was an exercise in raw political power. on the day the dobbs decision came down, i immediately announced what i would do. i also made it clear based on the reasoning of the court, there is no constitutional right to choose only the way -- the only way to fulfill and restore that right for women is by voting. by exercising the power at the ballot box. let me explain.

we need two additional pro choice senators and a pro choice house to codify roe as federal law. your vote can make that a reality. i know it's frustrating. it made a lot of people very angry. the truth is this, it's not just me saying it, it's what the court said. when you read the decision the court has made clear it will not protect the rights of women. period. period. after having made the decision based on a reading of a document that was frozen in time in the 1860s when women didn't even have the right to vote. the court now practically dares the women of america to go to the ballot box and restore the rights they have just taken away. one of the most extraordinary parts of the decision in my ryu is the majority writes, quote now from the majority, women are

not without political power. it is note worthy the percentage of women who registered to vote and cast a ballot is higher than the percentage of the men who do so, end of quote. repeat the line. women are not without electoral and/or political -- or political power. that's another way of saying that the women of america can determine the outcome of this issue. i don't think the court or the republicans who for decades have pushed the extreme agenda, have a clue about the power of american women. they are about to find out, in my view. it's my hope and strong belief that women will turn out in record numbers to reclaim the rights that have been taken from them by the court. let me be clear. i wish it had not come to this. this is the fastest route available. i'm just stating a basic notion. the fastest way to restore roe is to pass a national law

codifying roe, which i will sign immediately upon its passage at my desk. we can't wait. extreme republican governors, extreme republican state legislators and extreechlist in the congress, all of them have not only fought to take away the right, our rights, but they are determined to go as far as they can. the most extreme republican governors have taken the court's decision as a green light to impose some of the harshest and most restrictive laws seen in this country in a long time. these are the laws that not only put women's lives at risk, these are laws that will cost lives. what we are witnessing is a giant step backwards in much of our country. the bans are in effect in 13 states. 12 additional states are likely to ban choice in the next coming weeks. in a number of the states, the laws are so extreme they have

raised the threat of criminal penalties for doctors and health care providers. they are so extreme that many don't allow for exceptions, even for rape or insist. some of the states don't law for exceptions for rape or incest. this isn't some imagined horror. it's happening. just last week it was reported that a 10-year-old girl was a rape victim. 10 years old. she was forced to have to travel out of the state to indiana to seek to terminate that and save her life. that's my judgement. 10 years old. 10 years old. rape, six weeks pregnant. traumatized. forced to travel to another state. imagine being that little girl. serious. just imagine being that little girl, 10 years old.

does anyone believe the highest majority view that that should not be able to be dealt with? or any other state in the nation? a 10-year-old girl should be forced to give birth to a rapist's child? i can tell you what i know. i can't think of anything that's much more extreme. it's a green light to go further and pass a national ban. a national ban. they are saying, there's no right to privacy. therefore, it's not protected by the constitution. let it up to the states and the congress what they want to do. now my republican friends are talking about getting the congress to pass a national ban. extreme positions they are taking in some of the states. that will mean the right to

choose will be illegal nationwide if, in fact, they succeed. let me tell you something. as long as i'm president, it won't happen. because i will veto it. the choice is clear. if you want to change the circumstances for women and little girls in this country, please go out and vote. when tens of millions of women vote this year, they won't be alone. millions and millions of men will be taking up the fight alongside them to restore the right to choose and the broader right to privacy in this nation, which they denied existed. the challenge from the court to the american women and men, this is a nation that challenges go out and vote. for god sake, there's an election in november. vote, vote, vote, vote. consider the challenge accepted, court.

in meantime, i'm signing this important executive order. i'm asking the justice department that much like they did in the civil rights era to do something -- do everything in their power to protect these women seeking to invoke their rights. in states where clin riks still open, to protect them from intimidation. to protect the right of women to travel from states that prohibits seeking medical attention that she needs to a state to provide that care. protect a woman's right to approved medication that has been available for over 20 years. the executive order provides safeguards to access care. a patient comes into an emergency room in any state in the union, she's expressing -- experiencing life-threatening miscarriage. what the doctor is concerned about being criminalized for treating her, they delay

treatment to call the hospital lawyer who is concerned the hospital would be penalized if a doctor provides life saving care. it's outrageous. i don't care what your position is. it's outrageous. it's dangerous. that's why this executive order directs the department of health and human services, to ensure all patients, including pregnant women and girls, experiencing pregnancy loss, get emergency care they need under federal law and doctors have the clear guidance on their only responsibility and protection no matter what state they are in. the executive order protects access to contraception that i'm about to sign. justice thomas said that under the reasoning of this decision, this was justice thomas, that the court should reconsider the constitutional right to contraception, to use contraception, even among

married couples. what century are they in? used to be a case called connecticut versus griswold which was declared unconstitutional. a married couple in the privacy of their bedroom could not decide to use contraception. right now, in all 50 states and the district of columbia, atted forable care act guarantees insurance kroof raj for women's health services, including free birth control. the executive order directs hhs to identify ways to expand access to reproductive health services like iuds, birth control pills, emergency contraception. equally important, this protects patient privacy and access to information.

looking at the press assembled before me probably know more about it than i do. i'm not a tech guy. i'm learning. right now, when you use a search engine or the app on your phone, companies collect your data. they sell it to other companies. they share it with law enforcement. there's an increasing concern that extremist governors and others will try to get that data off of your phone, which is out there in the ether, to find what you are seeking, where you are going and what you are doing with regard to health care. talk about no privacy. no privacy in the constitution. there's no privacy period. this executive order asks the ftc to crack down on data brokers that sell information to anybody. it provides private health information -- it protects private health information in states with extreme laws.

the executive order strengthens coordination at a federal level. it establishes a task force led by the white house department -- and the department of human services focused on using every federal tool available to protect access to reproductive health care. let me close with this. the court and its allies are committed to moving america backwards with fewer rights, less autonomy and politicians invading their most personal decisions. remember the reason of the decision has an impact beyond roe. and the right to privacy generally. marriage equality, contraception and so much more is at risk. this decision affects everyone, unrelated to choice, beyond choice. we cannot allow an out of control supreme court working in conjunction with extremist almosts of the republican party to take away freedoms.

and our personal autonomy. the choice we face as a nation is between the mainstream and the extreme. between moving forward and moving backwards. between allowing politicians to enter the most personal parts of our lives and protecting the right of privacy. yes, yes, embedded in our constitution. this is a choice. this is a moment. the moment. the moment to restore the rights taken away from us. the moment to protect our nation from extremist agenda that is antithetical to everything we believe as americans. i'm going to sign this executive order. protecting access to

reproductive health care. >> mr. president, what does shinzo abe's death say about the security in japan? your thinking on lifting china tariffs. >> i tried to put a call in to the present prime minister. it's very late there at night. i will be talking in the morning. i'm going to be stopping so sign the condolence book at the embassy on the way to the cia. this hasn't happened in japan in decades and decades. i'm told going back to the late '30s, mid '30s.

it's a homemade weapon. i've only seen a photograph of it. the justice department is going to be getting me more detail later as they find out the detail. the fact is that one thing did strike -- get my attention. this is the first use of a weapon to murder someone in japan. and i we have have 3,688. between 3,000 and 4,000 cases. they have one. one. one. we're going to learn more about -- as time goes on about motive, about the whole -- japan, fumio, the present prime minister, is a very solid guy.

japan is a very, very stable ally. i do not believe it's likely to have -- i don't know yet -- likely to have any profound destabling impact on japanese security or japanese solidarity. thank you all very much. [ inaudible ] >> with the closing of the door, the president departs with that comment about shinzo abe and the contrast in gun violence in the united states with japan. it's so dramatic. nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander rejoins me, along with nyu law school professor melissa murray and dr. patel. peter, talk about the president's actions on abortion.

>> reporter: we just heard from the president making headlines saying he will be signing the condolence book, as you noted, at the japanese embassy as he remembers the life of the former prime minister shinzo abe. to your question as it relates to abortion, the president tried to cast this as a contrast between the view of his administration, democrats, and of republicans. this is the difference between mainstream and the extreme. calling on americans who are advocates of abortion rights to show up at the ballot box later this fall, acknowledging there's limited actions he can take without the codification -- the guarantee, of the right to an abortion in this country by congress. the president said what he is going to do with his executive order is help try to push back on the efforts right now to restrict the access to among other things abortion medications for women right now. those account for more than half of the abortions in this country. the president wanted to make sure that with the help of the

human -- health and human services department, that they expand access to that as well as other reproductive health care. separately, to make sure it remains unimpeded, the effort of any women in states where abortion is now banned or will soon be banned or restricted, to travel to other states where it is not. susan said earlier, this is now in the hands of 50 separate states. the administration is going to do what it has in its power. the president noting his efforts through the federal trade commission to try to protect sensitive data, private medical information of women to make sure that that information doesn't get into the hands of those who might try to criminalize them for any responsibility that they take to deal with their own health care. those are some of the major headlines announced by the president today on top of another which is an effort to help get volunteer or pro bono lawyers to help provide more information, more legal help and

clarification for those women in states where abortion access may be restricted right now so they can see what available options do exist for them. >> dr. patel, trying to protect private data is important. there are a lot of women who keep medical records, their reproductive records, menstrual cycles through apps on their phones so they can keep track of these things. the concern is that someone could be prosecuted in one of these states if they missed a cycle and they could be accused of having had an abortion. >> andrea, everything from just keeping calendar reminders about your menstrual cycle to the very dedicated apps that are more explicit about health care. i will tell you one step further, there are many of us concerned about some of the pharmacy app reminders. probably all of us have gotten tech reminders from pharmacies

about prescriptions, refills do. if you have a reminder for a contraceptive or something and you miss it, does that mean you will be seen as data that's penalized because you missed a certain window on your calendar? i think there are more questions than answers. i think that's the kind of thing we are looking for. i heard the president when he said -- i took notes. women are not without electoral or political will. i hear that. but this is a crisis where -- who would think that documenting when your last period was, so you would remember to take medication, could be information that jeopardizes your health care? that is not something that i think in of us thought we would have to vote upon. that's where we are. >> melissa, talking about the vote, that's next november. there's some primaries to come, but that's basically a decision down the road. these are immediate issues for

women who are pregnant or trying to get pregnant or doing ivf. what if you have a miscarriage and are accused of having done something illegal in texas? >> right. it's true that there's an urgency and immediacy to the situation. i don't think the president was wrong to link this to the right to vote. there's something unbelievably gaslighting about the supreme court returning the issue of abortion to democratic deliberation at the state level, when the supreme court has been responsible for dismantling much of the infrastructure of democracy through its decisions. the president made that very clear. part of the problem here is not just withdrawal of reproductive rights but a court that has exercised power in a way that goes against the will of the majority. a 6-3 super majority. what i was waiting to hear from the president was what he planned to do about the supreme

court itself. as he says, justice thomas' concurrence makes clear that abortion is not the end game here. there are other rights at stake. if that's the case, the question isn't just about the immediacy of the health crisis concerning reproductive rights but the more immediate threat to all of our rights of intimate association that this court poses. we heard nothing about that. >> all important points. peter, melissa and dr. patel, thanks so much for helping us out today. closed door testimony, what the january 6 committee has been hoping to learn from former president trump's white house council. you are watching that. we will have a report coming up. this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. this breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition... ...or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may incr ise your risk of thrush, pneumonia,

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former trump white house course pat cipollone providing closed door testimony to the january 6 committee at this hour, testimony that's being videotaped. we could see clips during next week's public hearing on

tuesday. joining us now, senior national political reporter sahil kapur and ashley parker and chuck rosenberg. sahil, it's important that pat cipollone is finally testifying. he tried to avoid it until a subpoena. what are the holes he could fill in the january 6 narrative? >> firstly, cipollone has been at it nearly four hours today in the deposition room speaking to the committee. they have taken a few breaks but he is back continuing to testify. that's according to our colleague who is monitoring it. what does this committee want from him? members described him as a significant witness. one of the members said he was present in key moments that they want answers to regarding the lead-up to january 6. that includes efforts to get the justice department to issue a letter validating then president

trump's groundless claims of election fraud. there was a plan afoot to install jeffrey clark as the head of the justice department to move forward with that scheme as well. then there was the explosive testimony from former white house aide cassidy hutchinson who relayed concerns that pat cipollone had about crimes that white houseofficials could be charged with if they went to the capitol on january 6. we know that did not happen. there are open questions of executive privilege and attorney/client privilege, the application of them. the company's attitude is that he is not donald trump's personal lawyer. he is the country's lawyer. his job was to keep the president within the bounds of the law and he should feel free to testify about his efforts to do that. what's unclear is how much he will say. we know trump has made his displeasure known about cipollone testifying, taking to social media saying that presidents should feel free to have candid conversations with their white house counsel.

>> chuck, he could exert lawyer client, executive privilege in answer to individual questions. if he is in there four hours, he is answering a lot. >> that's right. i think that's a fair surmise. executive privilege is a real thing. all presidents have enjoyed it and all presidents have relied on it. that said, there's a bunch of things that mr. cipollone could tell the committee that aren't privileged. it's a fact specific inquiry. what they were talking about, what was the topic? if others were in the room, people not members of the executive branch, then the privilege arguably doesn't apply. mr. cipollone might have seen other things or talked to other people who would never be covered by the privilege. to your point, if both sides are in the room in good faith and trying to navigate executive privilege, there's a bunch of things that he can testify to. i imagine that's exactly what's happening.

>> ashley, give us a better feel for his relationship with donald trump and why it took so long to get him to finally come in. >> well, one thing that was telling in some of the earlier january 6 testimony was a snippet of video they played from jared kushner very early on where he said, cipollone and his team were always threatening to resign. jared said, i just viewed that as whining. that gives you a sense even while he was serving in the trump white house, there were lots of things that made him and his deputies and team so uncomfortable that they did not actually resign but they did threaten and made enough of a fuss that jared kushner, top advisor, and others took note. these are also the sorts of moments, at least inasmuch as they involve january 6, that the committee is going to be pressing him on today. >> chuck, when we hear from him,

it's important to hear whether he confirms and validates cassidy hutchinson's very critical testimony from the other day, a week or so ago, when she was talking about the actual events on january 6 and his warnings. >> sure. she came across to me as very credible, very logical, very linear. but she's only one witness. whoever the witness might be, andrea, as a former federal prosecutor, we are always looking for corroboration, whether through the testimony of other witnesses or through documents. i imagine that mr. cipollone is one person who can corroborate some of what we heard from ms. hutchinson. i'm sure there are others. remember, the committee has spoken to close to 1,000 witnesses. we have only seen and heard from a handful of them. while mr. cipollone can corroborate parts of the story, so can others. the way you would build a

criminal case, not at the hearing, of course, because they don't have criminal authority, but the way you would build a criminal case are through multiple witnesses and multiple documents. ms. hutchinson might be one of them. she wouldn't be the only one. >> sahil, briefly, what we expect next week is going to be a marathon morning and afternoon we will be at it and carrying it live here on tuesday. a lot of loose ends to try to tape together. then on thursday night in primetime. could that be the wrap-up until they have a report? >> it might be. the committee has officially said there will be at least two more hearings. we have seen the schedule has been fluid. they could add a hearing down the road. so far, what they say they want to cover in the remaining hearings is the assembly of the mob who organized and financed and participated in the rallies. there's been discussion about getting groups like the proud

boys, talking about their level of participation and involvement in that. then there's the bigger question, the ultimate question of trump's involvement, what he knew, when he knew it, what he did with that knowledge. perhaps most importantly in the eyes of the committee, what he didn't do. adam schiff one of the members accused him of dereliction of duty. there's a case to be made for why the justice department needs to look at possible criminal exposure. this committee is a legislative body. they have no power to charge anybody with a crime. the final hearings are one of the audiences will be those prosecutors in the justice department with some members of the committee feeling strongly that there's a case to be made. >> exactly. liz cheney made that clear. sahil and ashley, chuck, thanks to all of you. behind bars. will the spotlight on brittney griner's case bring more attention to other americans being held for longer time in

russia? we will talk to the brother of paul whelan, a businessman detained there nearly 3 1/2 years. this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. s "andrea mitl reports" on msnbc.

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wnba superstar brittney griner is back behind bars in russia one day after pleading guilty to drug smuggling charges. she accidentally included vape cartridges in her luggage. it could lead to a ten-year sentence. her legal team is hoping that by showing contrition, they might shorten the trial since moscow is saying there won't be negotiations for a prisoner swap until the trial is over, that could lead to real negotiations, which have not taken place. american businessman paul whelan convicted in what the u.s. said is a sham trial has been jailed since 2018, serving 16 years in a russian labor camp after being convicted spoof iing which the u.s. and whelan say is a trumped up charge. joining me now is paul's brother. david, thanks for joining us. it's good to see you again.

when we last spoke, i think it was in april when trevor reed, another prisoner, got out in a swap. paul was left behind. with all this attention on brittney griner, understandably, she's a celebrity, you and your sister have spoken out about wanting more help from the white house. i think you spoke to the national security advisor yesterday. can you fill us in on that? >> my sister does governmental relations. jake sullivan was kind enough to call and speak to her and reassure her that paul's case was a priority. we have felt that since the biden administration started. there has been greater communication by the u.s. government to wrongfully detained families, our family included. there's an inconsistency. it was nice to get that call and get more certainty about their continued work on paul's case. >> your sister told me that she's written four letters to the white house wanting a meeting or call with the president. trevor reed's family advised

brittney griner's wife that until you talk to the president, nothing gets done. these things are decided at his level. any clarity from jake sullivan about whether you could talk tots president? >> i'm not aware they discussed that. i think the problem that we have is that the white house, the u.s. government generally is uncoordinated in how they deal with wrongful detection. they create this perception that this one event, presidential call or presidential meeting, might be definitive. some told our family, you need to make more noise to get some agencies to get on board for helping wrongful detainees. it's always uncertain for the wrongful detainee's family to know what we need to do to get this to happen. we may need to be patient, which is hard to do. even having that communicated in a coordinated manner by the u.s. government would be useful. >> i can't imagine waiting all

of these years really for any information, credible information about your brother and seeing trevor reed get out, thankfully for him and his family. how is your brother doing? do you have concerns about his health? >> i think he is doing as well as he can in a russian labor camp. he lost 20% of his weight since he was arrested at the end of 2018. he is slimmer. day to day medical issues. he has a cold right now. he can't get the medication we sent him. a guard is holding until he pays a bribe to get the guard to hand it to him. it's these day to day frustrations. it's a continuing, grinding injustice. paul, i think, is hoping to come home -- we are hoping he will come home early. we are planning for 16 years. that's how long his sentence is. >> there's some suggestion from brittney griner's legal team that by putting this focus on

the wrongful detainees that there will be more of an effort to get a larger prisoner swap. a prisoner swap for someone like who the kremlin wants back.slap someone, an arms dealer, convicted in a u.s. jail for a 25-year sentence, that someone as important to the russians as viktor bout should require more than one person, it should be paul whelan, all of the wrongful detainees in one big, you know, agreement with russia. have you discussed that or any thoughts about that? >> i think brittney griner's celebrity has helped awareness around paul's case in ways that we couldn't have imagined. brittney griner's supporters have been extraordinarily generous in talking about paul's freedom as well as ms. griner's freedom. it has been really helpful. i think the challenge remains

that the u.s. doesn't know what concessions it is willing to give, doesn't have agreement in a coordinated fashion amongst the agencies who have to agree, obviously the president will have to fundamentally sign off on whatever concession it is, but there's no agreement on what these are, so you know, there's speculation about trades with these people, or those people, or other things that the u.s. government might do, but i still think that the u.s. government hasn't gotten to the point where it has a consistent approach to help first, maybe the people who are being kept in russia, but also, you know, the other 50 families, the americans being held in china and venezuela, and egypt and all of these other countries who, you know, are really looking for the same sort of support, the same consistent information and help that we are asking for. >> and in fact, the fbi would have to sign off, d.o.j., and you talked with the other agencies, these are prosecutors who have put these people in american jails because they're criminals as compared to the innocents like your brother, so you have to get an agreement

from all of those, and then decide it at the presidential level, right? >> right and the sense that we are getting, you know, the, perhaps subtle effort, that not every agency in the u.s. government in the executive branch is interested or willing to work to bring americans home. and that's frustrating. because again, as a family, we are told to do certain things, or perceptions are created that we need to have certain calls or certain meetings, and now, it's more for us to do to figure out which of these agencies are the stumbling blocks, which ones are working against our loved one's release, and it makes it very difficult. >> our hearts are with you and we'll be in touch. thank you very much for being with us today. >> thanks so much. and joining us now is the former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul who knows this issue so well. you just heard david whelan, you know how these bureaucracies worked, you worked in the nsc and as well as the embassy of

moscow and did prisoner swaps yourself, who was part of that, so who is dragging their feet? >> well, of course, it's horrific to think about how hard it would be to sit on the sidelines, while your loved ones are in jail. i have a jail who is in jail too, mark fogle, just sentenced to 14 years in jail for basically the same crime as brittney griner and i want to be clear before talking practicalities how difficult and emotional it. >> in a russian jail. just to clarify, mark fogle is another detainee, an american in a russian jail for i think you told me 14 years, for medical marijuana, correct? >> correct. correct. and just so you know, he taught most of our kids when i worked at the embassy, he was a teacher at the anglo-american school. somebody we all knew in our community well. and he's, you know, in my, i'm not a lawyer, but he is unjustly been sentenced in my opinion, as well.

so i understand how these families feel, and i also think there's an opportunity now because of the brittney griner case. i don't want to get ahead of our skis. i don't know what the government is negotiating, i was part of the spy swap in 2010, and it is certainly the case, as you rightly pointed out that the fbi and the department of justice, i don't know the exact case in this circumstance, but back in 2010, they were not eager to hand over criminals. but it happens. it happened in 2010. it happened with mr. trevor reed a few months ago. and i have every confidence in predicting that the biden administration is looking very closely at trying to make it happen again. >> and would it be, would it be reasonable to turn over viktor bout who such a dangerous criminal, an arms dealer? >> no, it's not reasonable. and i think if we try to equate

equivalency who is a good guy and who is a bad guy, there is never a deal that would be done. it is just a very prag mat ig decision. do we want ho told him for ten ors near, he has been in jail for 10 or 15 or do we want to get these americans out and if you put it in morality terms or what is right, you'll never get a deal, i think you just have to make a decision is, that swap in the interest of these americans. that's the question that the biden administration has to tackle. and then remember, they have to get the russians to go along. so we're focused on what the biden team needs to do. remember, the russians have a say in this. we should not presume that they will go along. but i hope that biden's team will, a, think about that swap, and then b, propose it to the russians. >> and you think they should do it? >> i do. you know, my personal opinion, i don't want to judge, and i don't know all the facts that the biden administration officials do, but if i were working in the

government, i would try to make the swap a big swap, like you said, andrea, this is a big criminal, viktor bout, we should get all of these americans out in return for releasing him to the russians. >> thanks for bringing up mark fogle. we will work on that as well from our end ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you. >> that does it for our reporting today. i will be reporting with willie geist, with a lot more to come. chris jansing reports after this. t on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price.oe and a price that fits your budget.

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good afternoon. i'm chris jansing, live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. today, we are focused on the limits of presidential power and the difficulties facing president biden as he tries to find his footing on critical issues including two that are front and center this hour. the economy and abortion rights. just about 40 minutes ago, the president signed a new executive order meant to protect women's access to contraception and abortion. but on his own, there's little he can do to counter-act the supreme court's reversal of roe. that said, the president's biggest challenge and perhaps his administration's biggest source of frustration remains the economy. take today's june jobs report,