new book and much more. i am ayman mohyeldin. let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it has been just over two weeks since the supreme court overturned federal abortion rights, upending nearly five decades of precedent and ushering in a post roe america. and since then, we have discussed the existential threat that decision poses to the human rights and civil rights of millions of americans. but tonight, i actually wanna focus on often overlooked, but critically important aspect of abortion access in this country. the economic impact. to start things up here is treasury secretary, janet yellen, speaking on this, very issue, just back in may. watch. >> i believe that eliminating the right of women to make decisions about whether to have children would have very damaging effects on the economy,

and would set women back decades. >> and she's right. i mean, here's what the data tells us. in 2020, there was a landmark report called, the terminally study, turn away study. it was the first study to rigorously examine the lasting effects of an unwanted pregnancy on women's lives, giving us perhaps a first look at the reality of an america without abortion rights. those researchers found that women who were denied abortions or four times more likely to live in poverty. there were also three times more likely to be unemployed then women who were able to obtain an abortion. a follow-up study also found those same woman had lower credit scores. they had higher debt. they had an increased number of negative financial records, like bankruptcies, or even evictions. see, for one women's in america, pregnancy and motherhood comes at a grave economic price. and we tend to forget that. one thing tank found that it women's income could drop by 4%,

every time she gives birth to or even adopts a child. it's what they call the quote, motherhood penalty. but the economic cross isn't just felt on the individual level. in fact, one study estimates that state level abortion restrictions can cause state economies 105 billion dollars every single year. and according to the economic policy institute, the states that have either already banned abortion, or are likely to in the coming months, are also more likely to have a combination of both higher incarceration rates, lower wages, fewer worker rights, and less access to quality health care. so, let me be clear here for a moment. the facts aren't up for debate. abortion rights are economic rights in this country. i want to bring into the conversation, merle hoffman. she is the founder and ceo of choices, woman's medical center in the lifelike abortions rights advocate. in 1971, she helped establish one of the country's first

ambulatory abortion centers right here in new york. merle, thank you so much for joining us this evening. greatly appreciate your time. back in 2012, before we even got to this point, in this critical point in our country, you commissioned a report that actually followed up on a study that your organization helped lead in the 19 80s around this very issue, which you coined as abortion economics. based on those two studies, and your firsthand experience as a pre roe provider, what can you tell us about the link between economics and abortion access? >> well, there is a very, very strong powerful ling, because you have to ask, why do women have abortions? and why is it necessary for their survival and their lives? and the questions and questionnaires that i look at them ask this question. and the majority of women's answers, we are that they had him for him economic reasons, they had them basically for

their own survival, the survival of the families that they currently have, and they're living in. and the survival of their children that they have. so, then, i want to see the variation, and variables of the economy and how it impacted the choice of abortion, and the abortion patients. and what we found, the study was done with the consulting agency, is as the recession got worse, they're as demands or inflation got higher, there were more and more demand for abortion services, because obviously, women had to make a decision whether they were able to feed their families. you know, interesting glee enough, the first patient ever came to choices was in 1971, and she came from new jersey, because abortion was illegal in new jersey at that time. she was white. she was married. she was catholic.

she had three children. and she told me, and this is one of the first patients i ever spoke to, counseled, there was nothing like that at the time, that she just couldn't afford another child. and so, she was the first patient in 1971, and now, and seeing patients coming up from texas. so, the same we remains the same. it is a decision of necessity, you see. it doesn't have to be economic, but what i did find with that the majority of these decisions were driven by economy. >> in the dobbs opinion, just justice alito wrote the attitudes about the pregnancy of unmarried women have changed drastically since the roe decision, noting antidiscrimination loss for pregnant women and the availability of parental leave. but the data shows zero of the 23 states that have banned or

set to restrict abortion offer paid family leave. in your opinion, is that a drastic change from pre roe? >> well, you see, we don't have a pro life, society. there are no supports. i lost politicized, ayman, in 1977. we you see -- i saw him on television, and he sat there, and he said, well, if we can't save all the babies, we can at least save the babies of the poor. so, he counseled medicaid funding for for women and for poor women's abortion. these were the patients for women i work with every single day. and that politicized me to the discrepancy race, class, because it hit the poor,

minority and black communities worst. the hard amendment still exists, why? why? every year, there's a vote on this, and the appropriations bill, through every single administration. it is still in existence, and one of the demands that we are making is that high has to be a repeal at, repeal it. and you will have women who will be able to make that choice, because if you can't access a right, it really doesn't exist. . and no, we do not have parental leave. we do not have support for mothers. we don't have a daycare. we don't even have cornmeal law. but let woman deliver babies. you know, and then what we can do, we can always take them and leave them in a safe space, like the fire -- you know, a fireplace, or at a

fire station. a fire station. and then, somebody will take them and adopt them. you know i, mean, there's such a long why discrepancy of fundamentalist theories, and the reality that women's lives, which existed through the last 51 years. >> you know, the cruelty of this is just so obvious to anyone who follows it closely. and the fact that they do not offer any kind of services to young mothers or mothers and to babies after they are born. at the end of federal abortion rights, merle, it has come at a time when inflation is pushing up prices for gas, hotels, plane tickets, medical supplies, and food. and it's gonna make it much harder for women, particularly low income women, living in states where abortion is being restricted, or banned, to access abortion related care in nearby states. how are these conditions impacting your medical center? >> well, you see, with choices,

we started and out of town program. and i think in 2016, 2017, because as states -- you know, it's very interesting, and everybody is shocked, shocked that they actually did this, right? but the supreme court actually overturned roe. but i mean, there were people, activists, people who've seen this coming for years. so, how does it affect us? i've seen patients from texas five, six years ago. and patients from other states where they started to slowly restrict abortion access. so, we started the program of enabling women to travel, connecting with these wonderful feminist funding organizations that help women get, you know, their money for travel, money for their overnight stay, for food, coordinate the plane

tickets. so, we have that program entirely in place. and it's just a matter of expanding it. so, that's what we intend to do. we intend to expand it. that's w hat wea, merrill hoffman, i grey appreciate your time this evening, thanks for sharing your time tonight, best of luck to everyone working on the front lines for this crucial fight. the uk's prime minister, boris johnson, has stepped down as the leader of the conservative party, something republicans here could learn from, and i'm going to explain that next first next, richard louis is here at the headlines, -- >> california fire crews are fighting to save a group of sequoias in -- national park. bill using methods to clear brush around those landmarks, as of now none of these large sequoias were severely damaged. a 14-year-old boy was fatally stabbed inside a new york city subway station, it happened during a fight broke out on a train platform on saturday.

a 15-year-old boy was arrested, and faces murder charges. and novak djokovic, defeated nick curios and a four cents women in the men's singles title at wimbledon, sunday afternoon. this marks djokovic's seventh wimbledon title, and 21st grand slam of all. this moves him to just one behind rafael nadal, for the most all-time wins. more with a minimal holiday inn after this break. all-time wins all-time wins more minions are bitin' today. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ minions: the rise of gru, only in theaters. after this break

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as a leader of the uk's conservative party on thursday. the move came as the prime minister's administration was, quite, literally collapsing around him. he had scores of political allies, more than 50 members of his government, ministers, and aides, resign in open protest of johnson's role in a series of escalating scandals. >> we've seen, at westminster,

the herd instinct is powerful, and when the herd moves, it moves. i want you to know how sad i am to be giving up the best job in the world. but them is the brakes. >> the bottom line, johnson was held accountable. that is how a democratic system is meant to work. it's just like when, you know, trump was first forced from office that their blackmailing the ukrainian government, and plotting a coup? actually, no i'm sorry, who's never held accountable for any of, that and much more. joining me now is that my sunday night panel, we brittany packnett cummingham -- and former member of barack obama's 21st century policing i do. this david corn, washington bureau chief -- and matthew dowd, chief strategist for the bush cheney 2004 presidential campaign. it's good to have you all three with you with us, matthew like to start with, you much like donald trump for his johnson

and survive many scandals during his time in office. but, why was this different? what's different about this one? >> there's many things the same between the two of them, as you know. not the least of which is that everybody knew about boris johnson before he took office, just like everybody knew about donald trump before he took office. and then, he proceeded to be -- to corrupted moxie, it was cruel. was coerced, did all the things donald trump did. the biggest difference was that the conservatives in england, could only take three years of boris johnson, and looks like the republicans could take at least four years of donald trump. this is what's wrong and been wrong in our system for all these past years, which is, the complete inability of the republican party, to hold donald trump to any standard, to any normal standard of leadership, to any standard of protection of our institutions,

to any standard of devotion to the constitution. they not only haven't done, it they've been able to facilitated him in this entire process. so i think it's a reflection about what the republican party has become, and probably the conservative movement in england, it is reflection that -- conservative voters in new england, as of yet, haven't completely lost their minds. >> to that point, david, what do you make of the u.s. uk comparison. i, mean johnson, as we've outlined here, was held accountable though belatedly for his misconduct. but trump is still the most powerful player in the republican party. we see the sycophants in the republican party, apologizing for losing primaries if they have trump's endorsement, and been unable to deliver. that tells you a lot about just how much power he still has over some of the sikh offense and the republican party. >> it's not just that he has power over republican

politicians, and members of the gop establishment. he owns power over tens of millions of voters. that is a big difference in england nobody votes for the prime minister accept people in his district. he is elected by the party. the party turned on him as a bunch of scandals, he was caught lying. most importantly, i think, he loves the conservative party. he lost a couple of by-elections, and they were nervous that he was not going to be good for the party. so, the party turned on him. now, in america the party, people in the party whether it's lindsey graham or other people who stick with trump. with they are afraid of is republican voters, who are staying with trumpers, who believes trump's big lie. and they're out there saying will vote against, we will primary you in gerrymandered districts, in republican states, if you turn on trump. so, the mechanism here, is

completely different than what you have in the -- system. still, that said, republican officers here are not doing anything to give trump any pushback. they are running so scared of their base, that that is growing the difference. in england, the tide turning, professional politicians saw the tide turning against dallas in, they could move. here, after january 6th, -- for three nanoseconds opposed trump, and started with getting rid of them. they saw they couldn't do that without putting their own jobs on the line. >> yeah, hard to -- to i'm thinking out of the pay out of the top of my head. i jumbo i had cannot and asked can't think of a national conference if it overruns on an anti trump on an anti trump platform or somebody is opposed platform, or somebody was opposed to trump openly, and thinks he could win it. they're just either into themselves, or they fall in line. so, to that point, i gotta ask you, brittani, is it wrong for us, or at least certainly for me to feel a little satisfaction, watching johnson being held accountable by their

republican party? i mean, we wear alicia count ability on the side of the pond for any of our politicians for the damage that they do. >> i understand the satisfaction completely. and i think that david makes an important point, but if i can push further a little bit, if johnson lost his party, right? the gop has failed to back away from trump, perhaps it is because there's a large segment of the gop, if not all of it, that actually quite agree with him. that this is really who the gop is. i mean, we have to remember that monica was not a trump original, right? that this idea was started long before him, and it was popularized by a president named ronald reagan. and he also ignored a pandemic. he was violently xenophobic, and he to pursue policies that benefited wealthy, heterosexual, christian, white men. so, this in a lot of ways, is just the identity of the party. and frankly, if i am mitch

mcconnell, i'm not really concerned with the decorum of somebody like trump. if he helped give me the supreme court of the gop's dreams for the last 50 years, the supreme court that has overturned roe, the supreme court that has gotten rid of bodily autonomy, the right to privacy, tribal sovereignty, epa regulations, voting rights, all in a mississippi mix, frankly, in a lot of ways, this is a lot like that spider-man mean, trump and the gop over the exact same costume, looking at each other, pointing at the other, and these birds a feather will continue to frankly flock together. >> such a valid point, such a good point that trump is not the person who created the maga mob. but it was the maga mob that had been around, but he just tapped into it more. panel, stick around for more. we've got a lot more to discuss. a new witness was just announced for tuesday's january the 6th hearing. we're gonna talk about that. the former oath oath keepers spokesperson. how crucial is this? well, i'm gonna ask the panel.

oath oath keepers spokesperson how crucial is this? well, i'm gonna ask the panel.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> >> the committee now the january six committee now has a new witness for tuesday's hearing. former oath keepers spokesperson, jason van tatenhove, will appear before the committee tuesday, according to a source familiar with the hearing plans. van tatenhove was not part of the group doing, or leading up to the attack. he was expected to speak to that with capers radicalization over the years. this news comes the day after the highly anticipated release of key january six witnesses, and filmmaker alex holder's documentary unprecedented, and it features never before seen interviews with donald trump, and of course, members of his family. >> a very small portion, as you know, went down to the capitol, and then a very small portion of them went in. but i will tell you, they were angry from the standpoint of

what happened in the election. and because they are smart, and basically, they saw what happened, i believe that that was a big part of what happened on january 6th. >> [inaudible] >> yeah, let's get to the six. >> all right, let's bring in back our sunday night panel to discuss this and more. brittani, how big is this news for the committee, getting this particular witness, because it seems getting the oath keepers closer into the picture would mean there is probably some connections between the white house and the oath keepers? >> my feeling about this is, yes, and yes it is critically important this witness is there, testifying to the really national network of players and people, but not only pushed january 6th forward, but it continued to keep up this kind of what's premised fervor for a long time. these are the kind of folks that people should be paying attention to, on the local level, and the state level, as well as the federal level, not

just for what they did on january the 6th, but also, for what they could do, moving forward. but i also think that there's an and here. the and has to be here, that it can just be kind of rank and file fire people who may generate a sixth happened, who were there storming the capitol, and held accountable. the folks in power, people are sitting in positions, members of congress, and people at the highest levels need to be held accountable for this. and look at josh hawley, and lauren boebert, and victory for white life, barry miller, and they're still making laws for this country. those folks who stormed the capitol on the sixth would not have been there, had it not been for those members of congress and other powered representatives, telling them lies, and stoking the very deepest by supremacist fears. so we have to make sure that the oath keepers, as they're held accountable, that those empower are as well, otherwise, we'll see this happen all over again. >> absolutely, it's a great point. matthew, you saw trump's comments on the rioters and that clip we showed you in the

intro. his family, and even mike pence, they refused to discuss, to discuss january 6th in that documentary. and it makes me wonder that they must have known that they can't discuss it, because basically looks bad for them, no? >> well, i think everyone except maybe donald trump, and maybe donald trump is finally come to the conclusion that all comes back at this point. they all knew it. mike pence knew it. that's why him go along with it. you know, don jr. knew it. that's why he called and said you need to stop this. everyone seems to have known that this was fraught with risk, a huge problem. violence was gun occur, and was occurring. and the president refused to do anything about it. i owe, i want to add to what brittani said, which is what we are seeing today is the exact opposite of what abraham lincoln pledged to do. abraham lincoln pledged, i'm gonna let the soldiers of the confederacy who are being told lies by their leaders to go back home, grab a shovel, go back to the lines. but what i want is the leaders

of the confederacy to be exiled, who lie to their people, who did all that. they need to leave the country. they should never hold office again. that's what abraham lincoln wanted to do. we're doing the exact opposite. we're holding regular ridiculous folks accountable, which they should be, because they committed acts of violence. but we're leaving out all of the leaders to push this, that enabled it, that facilitated it, and we are starting with a former president of the united states. and to make, there is only two ways this should end. and they both should happen. first, the justice department should hold donald trump accountable, and every time we see a hearing, it's like a let's make a deal episode, which is, we think we've seen a time, and then we say, wait, there is more. look behind or number three. wait, there is more. look behind or number four. and every time we have these hearings, we learn more but the dots that are connected in this. so, i want justice department to hold the president accountable and others. but number two, ultimately, it's gonna be on us, as voters, to hold the entire gop

accountable in november. it's gdavid, trump also went afr the supreme court in his documentary. saying that they lack of courage and overturning the election. listen to this. >> the supreme court let a lot of people done, they didn't have the guts to make the right decision. they knew with the right decision was. all the legal documents and everything else, is not really a contest, -- so far we haven't found that judge. >> does he not know that the supreme court doesn't work that way? i mean, i know he's ignorant about the system and the way governments work and the way courts work. but just the fact that he thinks that's how it supposed to work, is mind numbing leaf stupid. >> i can't tell if this movie is propaganda for trump, or it shows how out of touch he is. you look at the glossy presentation here, as trump tells us lives without the

interviewer pushing, back letting eric trump not talk about january 6th. is he giving them the rope to hang themselves, i think the trump people are going to watch this documentary and think their dear leader is even more glorious than they already think. there is nothing level attorney here, advancing here, is really almost a mockumentary in some ways. but, you know, to the point, trump, everywhere you will -- there's only one standard for him in the way that he sees any aspect of the world. and that is, how it affects him. by the supreme court does would heed wants, and makes him look good, it's a bit supreme court in the were world, and it's all due to him. when the supreme court doesn't back up his big lie, is there cowards just like mike pence, and maybe they should be hung as well. and that's all this is. the republican party has allowed him to get out there

and say this over and over again. and we are left with tens of millions of americans, who believe this, who will not turn on him the way he wants voters to turn on him. i think it's a lost cause, i think it's a lost electorate. these people are not going to be persuadable. the democrats and moderates and everybody else, are going to have to find a way to basically segregate them in the political discourse here. because, they are stuck with trump, and that is not changing. >> brittany, one last question about january six committee stephen in agreed he's going to testify before the committee, but how much stock should they put him as a witness. the fact that he basically wanted to overthrow our democracy >> i mean listen, i don't trust steve bannon as far as i can throw him. there's no telling what he's

going to, say and how you think so try to manipulate. this when i won democrats in the doj to really remember, is that the power belongs to them if they keep this on the ground, and on their territory. this is not just about political theory, this is about prevention. it's about showing the american electorate who the gop truly is, so that we work hard in november to make sure they do not gain an ounce more authority or power than they already have, and it's about preventing any conservatives, who think they might try to do this again from doing it. we want those folks to think twice, and never to attempt this again. it's always a toss-up with steve bannon, i think steve bannon is always out for steve bannon. but we have to remember, the democrats need to remember to not play on his territory, but to operate on their own -- >> take some action sooner rather than later, at least sooner than what we might see coming out of georgia.

coming, up jason kander is here to talk about his journey with politics a mental, health don't go anywhere. s journey with politics a mental, ♪ ♪ aleve x. its revolutionary rollerball design delivers fast, powerful, long-lasting pain relief. go anywhere. aleve it, and see what's possible.

i'm jason kander, and senator blunt has been attacking mail-in guns. well, in the army, i learned how to use in respect my rifle. in afghanistan -- in a convoy of suvs, in the state legislature, i support the second amendment rights. i also believe in background checks, so the terrorists can't get their hands on one of these. i approve this message, because i'd like to see senator blunt do this. >> that was former missouri secretary of state jason kander, in a now famous ad from his 2016 senate run against roy blunt, well he would lose the election, the afghanistan war veteran was seen as a rising star in the democratic party, he then sat down with brock obama about running for

president. but everything came to a standstill in october 2018, when he dropped out of the kansas city mayoral race, and said he needed to focus on healing from post traumatic stress disorder now, he is back with a new storm called invisible storm, a soldier is not more of politics and ptsd. jason kander joins me now. jason, it's great to have you on this show. and thank you very much for sharing your story with us. it was like detailing your own journey in your book. >> first, of all thank you for having me, and i really appreciated. i know you've been to some of the same places i've been to, and probably experienced some of the same sorts of things. so it's nice to be able to talk to you, what was it like? it was a lot harder to do the my first book. my first book was a, here are some charming stories that might make you want to vote for me for president, book. which is fine, and it did well, and i appreciate everybody who

bought, it i respect that book. this is a different book, it's one that i needed 14 years ago when i got home from afghanistan. but it didn't exist, so i had to write it. the hardest part to write in this book was, there's just really one chapter that takes place in afghanistan, it was hard for me. the rest of it was less hard, because it was really about just explaining when i went through, emotionally, mentally, and how it sort of got through it, and what my therapy was like. that's the part that i was excited to, right because i knew that was the part that can help people the most. >> yes, i want to deliberate on that because one of the parts of the book that stuck out to me was about specifically when you are talking about not dealing with ptsd, and saying that it's kind of like ignoring an injury. and then it gets worse, if you variant. >> yeah, the analogy i use as my knee injury. i actually had a really severe knee injury, right before his post war list in the army, i

get surgery and physical therapy to enlist in the army. when i did after got home from afghanistan, is as one of its take surgery on my knee, i'm just gonna walk it off. i've done all my service in the army, without any doing anything about my knee. without that, my whole leg would've been, mangled i would've been able to use it. when i got, home i had the symptoms, and they gradually got worse and worse, but i always had a story to tell myself, about it wasn't ptsd, there was nothing i could do about, it or that it was getting better when it wasn't. i want to get worse, and worse, and worse. think about trauma, i learned in therapy, is it's not like wine, it doesn't age well. it's lot more like an avocado, no buddy builds out avocado sellers, they don't keep. you've got to deal with it. and if you don't deal with, it is gonna get worse and worse. >> now, we have been seeing, unfortunately in this country, an uptick of mass shootings lately. it's likely that the families

of the shooting victims are left with trauma, and maybe their own version of ptsd. as somebody who's experienced, this as someone who's fought ptsd, what is your message to those who may be watching this right now and struggling with her own form of ptsd. >> and, say my message is right where i left off with that analogy, i spent all that time comparing my trauma tether peoples, as a soldier, i converted two friends who had been shot. friends who had been blown up, and that made me think i could rank my trauma out of existence. well in reality i really had to go get treatment -- but they difference here is that we are on going trauma in this country. if you are at the parade in highland park, there's no doubt -- no matter any of that you've sustained some sort of trauma. but then what happens is, maybe in chicago at the time, and they knew somebody was there --

and then those people who are watching this right now, where just undergoing travel because they're living in america right. now they're thinking, but nothing happened to me directly, and the point of all this that i'm really making is that the trauma is trauma and you deal with it, and if you don't deal with it is going to get worse, and trying to rank it against other peoples trauma, it's a huge waste of your time, because my brain doesn't know what your brain experienced, and vice versa. >> as you're probably aware, we're coming up on the one year anniversary to the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan, i just wanted to get your thoughts on that as someone who served there. what does that mean to you, when year later when you look back at all the time those spent there, the resources that were spent, there both in blood and money, and where we are with that country? >> for me, it's even more personal than the fact that i serve there, because i'm one of

the thousand or so veterans who got very involved in afghan evacuation efforts. and i'm really bad lesson in and fortunate that our friends and i get more than 1000 of our allies out. -- but there are a lot of those people who are either still stuck in afghanistan, or in the case of all the people we didn't get, out there still in the same places united states. they're in difficult situations, and the fight for me that were coming up on a year, it makes me think about the fact that we've had these people waiting for a year. and then for the people who still haven't gotten out, who helped us over 20 years, with people like me saying, if you back us were gonna back you. i've heard people say, and i understand why people say we, have to draw the line somewhere. i'm not so sure. we told people for 20 years to be to have their back if they had ours, i think those people need to be here.

>> jason kander, thanks so much for coming forward with your story, and sharing this with us. i greatly appreciate your time this evening. next, an investigation into whether trump had his enemies targeted by the irs, we'll tell you about that more. enemie enemie targeted by the irs, we'll tel yo so you only pay for what you need... and a blowtorch. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ [whistling] with technology that can scale across all your clouds... it's easier to do more innovative things. [whistling]

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fbi director james comey and his deputy andrew mccabe faced during the trump administration. these weren't just any audits by any means, in fact they're seen as the most invasive type of random audit that the irs can taking out in fact the chance of being selected for them is nearly one in 31,000. the new york times reports the tax lawyers called these audits, an autopsy without the benefit of death. so, was just a coincidence, or targeted attack on two former officials the trump publicly attacks. my sunday night panel is back with me again. matthew, your thoughts on this, this is supposedly a random audit if i got to say the top two officials of the fbi being taught targeted by trump's iris to be more specific, seems kind of random we. >> we'll find out the truth is here, but i don't think anybody on this panel would be surprised if you said that donald trump investigated his

enemies -- use the irs to investigate his enemies. none of us would be surprised because, that's what he does. that's the kind of thing he does. i guess that as they expect to investigate is they are going to find out more than just those two were investigated. the irs went after just more than comey and mccabe, they will discover this list of people that the irs went after, is a more extensive list in this. what it shows, as we talked about in the previous two panels on various things is that donald trump has been a danger to this country. he's been a danger to the constitution, he's been a danger to our democracy. and all the things donald trump has said and done, makes richard mix and look like aj walker. >> brittani, weaponizing a government agency is, i would personally say seems like another page of the old trump playbook. but to weaponize a tax agency when it's been well documented

that he's often found ways out of pain taxes, himself even refused to share his tax records with the american public. what do you make of the story? >> clearly, hypocrisy means nothing to donald trump, i used to watch the early days of the apprentice, so i'm not at all surprised that this is possible. but, if this is happening to two of the highest ranking officials in federal law enforcement, then what do you think is happening to shea moss and ruby freeman, who held the line in georgia to make sure that that election was overturned. they do not have the resources of these two men, and they do have the racial and gender identity that put them directly in the crosshairs of trump acolytes who want to do them harm. -- we can't put anything past trumpers people, these are people want to hang their own vice president. this guy trump is reportedly something that took out his own secret service, because he wouldn't delivering to the site of a domestic terrorism.

these are false we shouldn't pass anything, and we should be treating them as such. we should also make sure that the people call that out, are never again cold alarmists, i remember in 2016 using the word fascism, and having people audibly gasped. we cannot afford shock and awe, america is not all that exceptional. yes, it can happen here, it has to happen here, and the only way to prevent it from happening again, is to actually hold accountable the people who use the constitution like toilet paper. >> they've, it to brittani's point to make sure that this doesn't happen again. can you imagine if trump gets back into power as president in 2024 would he would be unleash if he's able to do what he has done in the four years, and since that he has been in public life? >> well, i've written a few times now that i think the three primary motivations for donald trump, psychologically have always been revenge, revenge, and revenge. so you can gather what would

happen if he had control again of the federal agencies. you know, he does have stuff out in the open, and he publicly called on his attorney general to prosecute hillary clinton, barack obama, joe biden. hunter biden. i'm sure i'm missing another 20 people here. so, what goes on behind the scenes is not really that surprising, because he does it out in the open. i'll give you a better nightmare scenario than donald trump becoming president in 2025, and that is if the republicans win, one of the houses in the midterm election, in just a couple of months, they already have plans for about 3000 different investigations. they are going to be investigating the j six committee members, they will be investigating, of course, hunter biden. they'll be looking at the hillary clinton emails, benghazi, they will look back on everything else. we talk about steve bannon earlier, he's already on his

podcast talking about the items for the impeachment articles that they will put forward against biden. so, it's all going to be driven by donald trump and serving the great cheerleader. this will be revenge for him on his behalf. so there's a lot of payback that is going to happen, and false payback based on false promises and lies, should the republicans get control of in 2022 or 2024. >> matthew i want to go back here, point nixon famously wanted to use the arrest investigate his enemies. did -- political loyal officials in the years he was in power? >> absolutely, donald trump was the active participant and leader of an insurrection at the u.s. capitol, to try to overthrow our constitution of the united states. i have many problems with richard nixon, i actually got

interested in politics watching the watergate hearings. but in the end, richard nixon was an institutionalist, he was corrupt in parts. but in the end he fundamentally believed that america has a constitution, and that in the end. he did lots of bad things, but he wasn't going to overthrow the democracy that's at stake. donald trump actively tried to overthrow our democracy, and if that is in a treasonous icpd, i don't know what is. >> all right, matthew dowd, brittani pac-man cunningham, david, corn really appreciative all your insights and analysis this evening. thank you so much for your time. and thank, you at, home for making time for us on this sunday evening. until we meet again, ayman mohyeldin, goodnight. again, ayman mohyeldin, goodnight

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