♪♪ ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. it's the start of what is likely to be a momentous week for the congressional panel tasked with investigating the deadly capitol insurrection. the select committee's next hearing is slated for tomorrow afternoon. it's set to tell another important chapter in the story of the insurrection and the trump coup plot. the, quote, marshalling of the mob as members of the panel have put it and according to january 6th committee member jamie raskin the coup is a bigger part of the bigger story which adds up to this, quote, the bigger political offense against the union by a president of the united states in our history. a source tells nbc news that one of the witnesses is jason van at

that time tatenhough. nbc news reports while he was not part of the oath keepers whose members have pled guilty to seditious conspiracy in connection to the riots or the events leading up to january 6th, the source said jason van tatenhove is expected to speak about the radicalization including how stewart rhodes capitalized on conspiracy theorys to build capitalism and funding. from the white house's top lawyer pat cipollone. he sat down with the committee for more than seven hours and here's what stephanie murphy had to say. >> we were grateful that he was willing to come before the committee and share with us. of course, there were areas where he claimed privilege, but it was important for us to

understand what the president's top legal adviser thought about the activities that were happening post-election and in the run-up to january 6th. >> and now on the eve of another critical hearing likely to reveal more damaging details about the conduct of the ex-president and his allies, the panel is having to contend with an offer to cooperate and testify from former trump adviser steve bannon. that offer comes on the eve of his federal trial for contempt of congress for defying his subpoena from the committee. bannon's about face was accompanied by a letter from donald trump. that letter says that the ex-president is waiving his claim of executive privilege so that bannon can testify. it is ridiculous. it was not relevant from when he was trying to get the white house records and it is not valid now because only a current president, only president joe biden can exert claims of

executive privilege. bannon owe after to testify will not spare him from prosecution and dropped a bombshell that effectively eviscerates bannon's offer to testify as well as trump's letter about executive privilege. from "the new york times" reporting on that part of the story. the justice department responded early monday that bannon's sudden change of heart was irrelevant to whether he'll be prosecuted from con term. . prosecutors disclosed they had recently interviewed justin clark a lawyer for trump. the president never invoked executive privilege over any particular information or materials and that bannon's lawyer misrepresented to the committee what the former president's counsel had told the defendant's attorney. an offer from a trump insider on the eve of what promises to be another blockbuster hearing from the january 6th committee. the co-founder of punch bowl news jake sherman is here. also joining us, washington post national reporter and msnbc

reporter carol leonnig is back, claire mccaskill is here and donnie deutsch is here and with the podcast "on brand." i want to start with you and this hearing tomorrow is perhaps the one that has been foreshadowed the most, the longest. i wonder what you expect to hear tomorrow? >> a few things are worth thinking about. the kind of golden ticket, nicole, from this committee is to establish some sort of connection between the radical elements that stormed the capitol, the oath keepers, the proud boys, people of that nature and the white house. i'm not sure they're going to be able to do that. i'm not sure that's in their plans and that's something to keep an eye on. furthermore, i'm more interested on something, nicole, to be honest with you, something that was not foreshadowed, which is a recent development which is cipollone's -- pat cipollone,

former white house counsel, his testimony behind closed doors. i've spoken to people close to cipollone who have made the case for me, part of the reason he wanted to speak out and part of the reason why he didn't completely fight the subpoena was because he wanted to be seen as part of that quote, unquote, team normal or whatever they called it a couple of weeks ago, and i think a lot of what he said was from what i understand from the people familiar with it, shed light on to what happened at the white house that day and that's something that has not actually been in short supply over the last couple of weeks, but coming from cipollone who is such a critical element and something that we've heard so much about over the last couple of weeks is critical, and i think we'll get just a further view into that, and i would just add one thing. a lot has been made up here that cipollone will not be testifying live and person. i really don't think that matters much. the committee has made such excellent use of videotaped testimony over the last couple

of weeks since this has become that i imagine we're going to get a lot more tomorrow. >> yeah. i mean, carol, to jake's point, we've seen a whole lot of cassidy hutchinson before the nation met her live. even some of the most prolific, and i think richard donohue's testimony was almost equal parts deposition and that wasn't filmed in his live testimony. let me show you what stephanie murphy said about what pat cipollone told the committee. >> the jeffrey clark scheme. it was referred to that he called that a murder/suicide pact. were you able to get that confirmed out of him? >> he made very clear that he thought the eastman theory which was this idea that the vice president could somehow unilaterally declare the president the president elect or

that the pressure on the department of justice. he sided with the department of justice on the findings of no fraud for the election. he made clear that he took the side of many of the folks that you've seen come before the committee and was asserting that there wasn't enough evidence that the election was not free and fair, and that the right thing to do, i think, for democracy is to have a peaceful transfer of power especially after december 14th when the states have certified their electors. >> carol, was there so much noise around cassidy hutchinson's testimony about the vehicle and all of the build up to pat cipollone was whether or not he would corroborate cassidy hutchinson. it's clear that the committee went back to the very first public hearing and that was the illegality of the eastman plot. the pressure campaign against pence.

trump's knowledge of the e legality of the coup plot itself and it sounds like from what i've seen they got much of what they wanted from mr. cipollone. >> they definitely at least, nicole, got a window into how cipollone, a white house counsel felt about the multiheaded, multi-pronged effort by donald trump to stay in power even though he was told by pat cipollone and bill barr, a very good ally to pat cipollone was bill barr. they were in lockstep about what the former president was doing. so the committee has clearly gotten a lot of information about how the most senior white house adviser you can imagine other than the chief of staff felt about the legality and the appropriateness and the factual basis for the president's bonkers plan and it took many forms. what i will be watching for is how much did pat cipollone share

about what he told the president because my understanding is that many times in this eight-hour interview he cited executive privilege about what he advised or told the president. keep in mind another thing we all should be watching for in this hydraheaded nightmare is the effort to seize the voting machines. cipollone had a window into three different ways the president considered seizing the machines. cipollone had a front-row seat to a meeting that led ultimately -- let me retract, the meeting that ultimately ended with sending a tweet in the middle of the o dark 30 hours come to washington. will be wild. he didn't participate in every hour of it because i think it lasted for six hours, but i'm going to be looking to how much

did cipollone tell him about the nutty meeting where team normal and team crazy had it out and the president was so befuddled and angry about the fight, that he ultimately took an hour-long dinner break while they were arguing over whether or not they account seize machines. >> congressman jamie raskin talked about that very meeting and its significance. let me play that for you, carol. >> one of the things that people are going to learn is the fundamental importance of a meeting that took place in the white house on december 18th, and on that day, the group of lawyers, of outside lawyers who have been denominated team crazy by people in and around the white house came in to try to urge several new courses of action including the seizure of voting machines around the

country and so some of the people involved in that were sydney powell, rudy giuliani was around for a part of that discussion, michael flynn was around for that, but against this team crazy were an inside group of lawyers who essentially wanted the president at that point to acknowledge that he had lost the election and were far more willing to accept the reality of his defeat at that point. >> what's so amazing, carol, and i remember on the day of the insurrection talking to a former senior cia official who said the time line will prove critical. you know, going back to an hour before, two hours before,12 hours before, 24 hours before. what they have back to december 18th is quite robust. talk about how they have filled in not just the events of the day, but the day before and

everything that builds up to it. >> i think the most key element here and you know, you and i have talked about it a little bit over the last seven months and maybe the last year and a few months. >> yeah. the most critical kind of connective tissue. that's what i feel theity comy is doing so well. they're telling you the story and they're adding to the time line and they idea, that the new york times and other competitors have reported. what they're filling in are the little gaps in the story. for example, we all knew the president issued a tweet on december 19th that welcomed a mob that marshalled a mob to come to d.c. we all knew that on december 18th, was there this nutsy meeting where the president was inviting michael flinn in in part because michael flinn had gone on a conservative news program to say, hey, you know, i

think the president should declare martial law. he's got total good reason to do it and seize the machines just in the swing states that he lost just because we believe he won. no one in the world thought that was a good thing, but donald trump thought it was a good thing to call in michael flinn for a meeting and here's the brick-by-brick explaining and i'm dying to see, does he have someone in the meeting to say i was there and president trump and i and all agreed this is how it should go down. where is the connective tissue where someone says i was there and here's how things will happen on january 6th. that would be important connective tissue. >> well, we don't know, claire mccaskill that pat cipollone offers anything in that vein, but when people leave they relish talking about what didn't happen.

what comes out after people leave is all of the crazy, you know, in bill barr's word, bullshit stuff that doesn't happen on their watch. so if pat cipollone isn't like bill barr or john kelly or the alternate reality and they all come out with at least one really unbelievable and incomprehensible story about what didn't happen on their watch. what's your sense of what the committee may have in that vein tomorrow? >> well, i think what -- i think carol's right. i mean, they are building a narrative. they're putting a timeline in place and all of this revolves around the president's state of mind and the president's intent. when this committee began, there were a lot of people saying well, it's all old stuff. we've seen all of this, and i think a lot of people thought we will never really know what trump was thinking and doing in

the immediate days before january 6th and during the insurrection and that's what cipollone can help with. he can corroborate cassidy hutchinson's time line and the meetings and when he was where in the white house. none of that is privileged and a lot of this is building the credibility of the people who have come forward on team normal. the team normal people are the people who finally have grown a spine and found some courage and respect the constitution and whether it's bill barr saying it was all bullshit or whether it's pat cipollone or cassidy hutchinson or dougherty or anybody who worked in the inner circle of trump world, they are the ones that are showing us the signposts to the president's intent and that's how you prosecute it. >> yeah. i mean, donnie, we've been talking -- all five of us have

been talking for four years now about the failed efforts to hold donald trump accountable. what is your sense of lou this endeavor stacks up. >> first of all, programming note, there's nowhere where you can say claire mccaskill and nicole wallace say bullshit. >> we were quoting bill barr! >> we've all said all along does this get trump? does this get trump? does this get trump? if i go around america right now, how can he not indict him? looking back now, you look at the tax stuff and you know how squishy, ishy, how can we as a nation and how can merrick garland, his own legacy because i like to evaluate what is someone's personal motivation. let's handicap the behavior. if you're merrick garland and you're the justice department, how do you see what we've seen to date and as everybody has said the connective tissue is there, today you have him on

conspiracy, you have him on obstruction of justice and tampering with witnesses. so how can they not indict him at this point? that's my biggest question. i can give you many reasons why they would aren't. why wouldn't they at this point? >> we have so much more to get to. i want to ask you quickly, jake sherman about the steve bannon offer? what is the committee doing with that? >> it doesn't seem like much at this point. i think, listen, i think part of the challenge here, nicole is that things keep popping up that they have to deal with. cassidy hutchinson was one and pat cipollone was another. i don't know what they're going to do with them, and i just want to add one more points that dove tails -- i know i'm not supposed to call her senator mccaskill -- what claire said, at the end of these hearings, nicole, this is what a lot of people will be asking. we have this wealth of information, just a stunning amount of information that congress has. i mean, again, i think this

hearing, these series of hearings has been some of the most fruitful work congress has done in modern times, just the connickeling of this episode, but to what end? if the justice department doesn't do anything and it's almost like you throw your hans up and that's the fooling that i keep getting from people up here and people involved in the commity and this is goinging to end at what point? and with. that's the dynamic that i'll hear answers for in the next couple of weeks. >> i think the end what for anyone other than donald trump would be a criminal investigation and then prs kiegsz. liz cheney has not hitting the punchline and he has the public

yn jan wooez had eight usas fro from, and in the interviews and the taped depositions. i wanted to ask you about a story in the times about a personal bond. i suspected this, but until i saw it reported i didn't know it to be true. the trust that cassidy hutchinson had in liz cheney had to do with the devastating hours-long blockbuster testimony as anything else. what do you make as we watch liz cheney sort of continue to -- i don't know if rising to the moment is the right word, but really nail the public phase of what as jake said has been an incredibly successful congressional investigation just on the evidence side? >> you know, echoing jake, i will say when he said the most productive work of congress in the god knows when, i was shaking my head yes, yes, yes, nodding because really, you kaernts call a lot of people

lawmakers anymore because they haven't made any laws in a long, long time and here is an investigation that instead of being how can we tag somebody it, let's get the facts and bring them together. i know republicans disagree and feel like the investigation is focusing on one particular head of the republican party, but these are a lot of facts and it's pretty impressive to me, an investigative reporter who trod a lot of this ground and feel like i know it well and i'm still learning things from them. so that's one thing. the second thing about liz cheney and so important to focus on that, nicole. keep in mind the arc of the narrative for liz cheney. before and after the election, immediately before and immediately after the election, liz cheney pretty much knew donald trump was going to lose and pretty much after the election was getting very nervous about what the freedom caucus members were talking

about. >> right. >> about oh, maybe he can stay in power and then what does she do on january 6th? jim jordan, a key freedom caucus member reaches over to her to say we need to get the lady lawmakers over here where it's safer and she said don't you touch me. you did this. there are a couple of other epithets in there. where did she go from january 6th? she went to i'm going to investigate this even if it means i lose my whole family's political sort of -- if the chain dies with me, so to speak, and she would not give up. unrelenting. so quite a narrative on her part. >> yeah. and she, i think wrote or voted for the first articles of impeachment and this has never waivered and not retired unlike some of the others in the group. carol leonnig, thank you very much for starting us off. jake, claire and donnie are sticking around. how the hearings into the insurrection are seeping into

the cultural moment and how they're playing with the public and the long-term impact of these hearings could be for trump and his devoted followers. president biden dedicated to protecting abortion rights and that he's declaring a public health emergency to increase public health for women. later in the program, one officer on the front lines on january 6th, putting the ex-president at the center of everything that happened, calling it a betrayal from the top. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. house" continues aftezing. thank you wayfair. how's the puppy? don'

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it is probably true. i think what's most important is again, what does history say in five or ten years. i can guarantee -- i can get as close as i can to guaranteeing that in ten years there will not be a single trump supporter that exists in the country. it's like nixon. there were a lot of people that supported nixon until he was out of office and then nobody supported nixon. i figure that will happen. >> wow, it's still stunning to hear that from congressman adam kinzinger one of the select committee's two republican members that in a few years, he predicts, trump supporters will abandon the disgraced deplatformed, twice-impeached ex president donald j. trump. donnie, i want to start with you here. i mean, what do you think? do you think trump could sort of rise and then plunge? i mean, he's been forgotten before. >> something that's interesting

and "the washington post" ran a poll that said a year ago 61% of republicans thought it was a riot, and 47% thought there was a protest. and what's been going on on tv and i think there is a hard core change and i do think if we go on the premise that if history will show this, will report it, and i actually agree with kinzinger. i do think that a few years ago donald trump will be seen universally and in the solid majority as a heinous bill in his character in american history, and you're still seeing some weathering happening to his image, but when i talked about those numbers as far as people seeing that as a riot and insurrection and protest flipping. it's not necessary getting through to the core republicans or ever and the fringy republicans over time will come out to the other side. i truly believe that. >> claire, if you go over the political events of the

calendar, to prevail the midterms or to have an event that bucks history that if i think that if you look at 2002 was the last time the midterms after september 11th. i mean, if kinzinger is right and if you look at the polling among independents they're paying close attention and not necessarily sitting and watching the hearings live. i monitor local news and the days there are hearings it's one of the top stories on the local news. what is your sense of the hearing's ability and the depiction of trump and his republican enablers like republicans like kinzinger that help ressemble the republicans. >> i don't know. there are such headwinds about people's day to day lives and what's happening in their 401(k)s, what's happening to their paychecks in terms of how

far they go. what's happening at the gas pump. all of that is very difficult to overcome. i do think, however, that adam kinzinger is right, but i would add this about the future. we have these con sense rick circles. we have trump in the middle as the most lying, immoral, incompetent inept president i think this country may ever have and then you have the circle that are now around him, the crazies. then you have the circle of the normal people that used to be in the inside circle, but it's that outer ring that i think is going to really look bad in history and that's the people that just remained quiet, the ones that hid under their desks and the senators like rob portman who is retiring and like pat toomey who said nothing to this day, saying nothing about how bad it is what donald trump has done to our faith in democracy. i think history will be

completely damning to them and i think this committee will be in large part responsible for that. >> well, and the one human being responsible for outing that is cassidy hutchinson. she was an insider's insider. nothing she said was refuted in terms of the characterizations and the access rudy had to the west wing and the plans way ahead for trump to go, the consternation on mccarthy's part when trump said i'll walk with you. none of the substance of her testimony that really was the first and the more robust view inside the trump west wing maybe ever, maybe ever. none of it was refuted by anyone in trump's former inner circle or any of his closest allies on the hill. >> no, and a few thoughts here. number one, i've heard privately from trump allies who took issue with some parts of her testimony and most -- i've been told that there are statements forthcoming for weeks now about parts of her

testimony that were not true and i've not seen any of those statements and i don't think they exist or will come out. that's number one. number two, the people -- i covered mark meadows when he got to congress and i covered him as chief of staff, and if you know that white house, i knew cassidy was close to meadows because she was up here in the capitol. she was in every meeting. >> yeah. >> that point is irrefutable. if you're a member of congress who dealt with the white house in any way, mostly republicans, you knew that cassidy was close to the action and in the middle of the action. so there really is no way to say she's not part of the inner circle. she was. that's just fact. i want to push back on one thing and i'll be a party. er here for a second. i can't tell you what's going to happen in ten years. i have no earthly idea. politics is a weird business, a very weird business, and there's a lot of points to suggest that. look no further than missouri

and the state that was represented by two people who couldn't be too different from you in any way, shape or form and the politics are a weird game. that being said, in the immediate and the house republican conference is filled with people who represent districts where trump still has 80% approval ratings. in the immediate adam kinzinger might be right and he's also an extreme outlier. this is stating obvious points. i mean, the republican party at this moment and again, the independence i would say just for this moment in politics don't matter much to the republican majority you might -- i don't know that you are, but you might be seeing come 2023 that's going to be filled with people from districts and 85% of districts that republicans will represent have donald trump as a very popular figure. just one more point here. to put him to the side, you will need a republican candidate like

a desantis or someone of that figure to say, listen, we have to put this guy in our past, and i was talking to a trump adviser the other day wo made this interesting point, if you run against trump and you're a legitimate republican or someone who could capture the trump vote, you say he promised to build the wall. he couldn't do it. he could aren't stay out of trouble. everyone around him has been indicted. everyone around him has been in trouble. this chaos, we don't need this as a country so that will be interesting to watch. >> yeah, and i guess, to your point, no one knows anything about anything is really right. >> before we open our mouths, but i do think that a lot of people thought that these hearings wouldn't matter and there's a real indication if you monitor local news and if you monitor late night it has seeped in in a way that no other trump trove, no other trump investigation did. >> and the front page of every local newspaper i look after

every hear, not every, but most. >> yeah. >> it's understandable. the facts are clear. people marched to the capitol, trump told them to and they tried to stop the election. the details are super important and it's not a pressure plot in ukraine like the other hearing was. >> or shared mission with russia like the one before that. >> right. >> jake sherman, thank you very much for starting us off today. we ought to take the whole hour next time. we have plenty of ground to cover and we don't swear next time. >> reproductive rights advocates have been pushing this white house for a more robust response for the supreme court's overturning of roe versus wade. we'll check in with our friendes is cecile richards on the biden administration on that front. stay with us. h our friendes is cecile richards on the biden is cecile richards on the biden administration o -seriously? -denied. can we go back to meeting at the rec center? the commute here is brutal. denied.

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and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. >> keep protesting. keep making your point. it's critically important. we can do a lot of things to accommodate the rights of women in the meantime, fundamentally, the only thing that will change this is if we have a national law that reinstates roe v. wade. >> that was president biden over the weekend urging americans to keep using their voices and to keep protesting and to vote in order to reinstate abortion as a con tushl constitutional right and the president did say he's

considering a public federal emergency. let's bring in cecile richards, co-founder of american bridge and i read everything of the times and the post and even the journal has had very robust coverage of post-roe america and i always think of you and there's so much happening and i do want to start, though, as i always do with women. these are interviews that box did with women and the real world implications of all these conversations. >> i felt like i was drowning and had zero control over my life and having an abortion felt like reaching out for air. >> we were barely able to scrape by at that point and there was just not enough money. i don't have child care now. there's still no way to afford child care on my salary. >> i was able to go to law school and complete the degree that i said i'd wanted to be since i was 8 years old. >> my life outside of being a mother has just been

exponentially harder and almost impossible. >> i was able to get out of a marriage that just wasn't working because i didn't have to think about how i had impacted somebody else. i get to define my life the way that i want to without having to factor in a family. >> if somebody tells you they're not ready to carry a pregnancy to term. they're not. believe them. >> i wanted to amplify those voices and justifiably, we talk about the most heinous examples for denying this constitutional right to a victim of rape or incest and the life of mother is important, but every woman lost a constitutional right to make a choice whether to start a family or whether to carry a pregnancy and those interviews just brought that back. >> that's right, nicole. i am so glad that you keep centering women in this conversation because that is really what this is all about. i'm sort of emotional.

i married my eldest child off this weekend and like nothing has brought me more joy than having children, but also knowing that responsibility and what it means to make that decision, and to be able to make that decision about when and whether to become a parent is one of the most fundamental, personal decisions anyone will make in their lifetime and the stories that you just shared, women making these decisions because of their own personal circumstances and the relationships they are in and their economic circumstances and no one can walk in another woman's shoes and so it is so important that we keep reminding people, the last people that should be deciding about pregnancy are politicians and government. they have no idea. as you say, we've heard, obviously, horrific stories that have come out since -- since these abortion bans have begun to take effect like the young girl who had to travel out of the state of indiana to access a

safe and legal abortion and also one of the things that's underreported is over the last 50 years when women could make their decisions about pregnancy, when or whether to have children, our ability to finish school, to finish college and to have a career and to financially support the family that they wanted to have has dramatically increased and i -- my heartbreaks for this entire generation of young people who just had that taken away from them by the republican party. >> i think to ignore what's being said about abortion on the fringes is a mistake because this version of the republican party pipelines what is often dismissed by a lot of people in the media including myself as lunacy until it's the law of the land in texas. vigilante enforcement of an abortion ban. what do you think when you hear the fervor on the right to go even further? >> well, that's so important, nicole because we haven't hit

bottom yet. in texas now, members of the texas legislature are sending letters to businesses all across the state saying we are going to now make it criminal for you to assist any of your employees who need to travel out of state to get access to safe and legal abortion and any financial assistance and they're threatening disbarment of any lawyer who is involved in this. they have not stopped and they are not going to stop until safe and legal abortion is a thing of the past and one of the things we're focused on these difficult states like texas where abortion is virtually impossible to access legally anymore, but make no mistake. the republican party is coming for the whole country. they say it's a state by state issue until they can gain control of the united states senate which is a possibility this november and if they do, i guarantee you one of the first bills that's introduced will be

a national abortion ban, so it won't matter how blue your state is. this republican party wants to take away the rights from every single woman in america. >> what do you assess the degree of sort of activism and channeling this fear and this grief and this monumental shift in american life for every single woman. what is it? is your phone ringing? are you heartened? are you worried? tell me what's going on in the country around this issue. >> i think it's a mix. >> i did think honestly some people are in a grieving process, and i think not people that are involved in pol tux or activism. just everyday people who literally cannot believe this has happened. think, you and i have been talking about this issue for a long time so it's not so much -- >> yes. >> but i think that for many people they haven't been able to

move to activism yet because they're still trying to process that this, in facts, has happened and i see young women and young men bhor enraged and engaged and they are protesting and they are marching and they are doing everything they can, and then i see women of my mother's generation and women who lived before roe was the law of the land, and they are so despondent. the thought that their daughters, sons and grandsons will now live in a country where abortion is no longer legal, but make no mistake. this is not -- i know you think about this in political terms also, this may be something short term that the republican party has been able to jam through because of their rigging of the supreme court and a lot of other tactics, but long run, this is going to destroy the republican party. there are a generation of voters who i believe will absolutely not support the republican party

again, because this is the party that just changed their life and just took away their rights and that's something that people never, ever forget. >> i totally agree with you. i think for the republican party, the dog caught the car and they're going to spend the next 40 years trying to figure out what to do with it. we'll ask you to stick around and we'll get claire back into the conversation and talk about how the abortion fight and the supreme court's decision will impact us in the immediate. we'll look at some of the key senate races this year right after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ht after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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this is the largest governmental overreach in the private lives of citizens in my lifetime. this -- this is big government coming into your doctor's office, your bedroom. it's crazy. this is not freedom. this is crazy. we want to land big companies, big jobs, and we want to keep our young people here, and young people are scared to death now. >> ohio democratic senate nominee tim ryan not just voicing his support for codifying the right to an abortion into federal law but speaking a language very likely to resonate in his state in ohio. talking about how ohio's restrictive abortion ban isn't just dangerous for women, but it's bad for the state, bad for the state's economy. cecile richards is still here. claire mccaskill is back.

i wanted to ask both of you about that message and about really doing what cecile just said, making the republicans own something that is wildly unpopular with the majority of americans. claire? >> well, with i think we have a real opportunity here, and i thought the testimonies of the women that you all showed earlier were very important, because we have to remember that there are millions of women over the last 50 years that have decided on their own terms with their loved ones and their doctors when or if to terminate a pregnancy. but what's really happened now is behind the scenes, some states have gone so far and have become so extreme that they now have probably 70% to 80% of the people of their state opposed to what they have put into law. my state is just one example. that they've gone so far with the extremes, whether it's texas

and the vigilanteism of hunting down anyone who's helped anyone get an abortion, to missouri, where they're proposing going after people that cross state lines for an abortion, to places where it's become very dangerous to talk about getting cancer treatments if you're pregnant or whether you can actually terminate a pregnancy if you're the victim of incest and you're only 10, 11, 12 years old. that is the thing that drives people's passion to vote, and that is what we got to emphasize. all of the women and their rights being curtailed is very important, but the extreme measures that these people are pushing around the country is what will motivate our voters to get out there and can it could really make a difference in the midterms. >> cecile, i want to read this to you from the "washington post." behind the scenes, republican operatives are growing increasingly nervous. one gop strategist watching the senate race closely said, "there

are massive problems on the candidate front." the republicans liken the situation to 2010 and 2012 when the party fell short of winning the senate majority because of undisciplined and polarizing candidates such as sharon engel in nevada, todd akin in missouri and richard mourdock in indiana. you add these weak candidates with what claire's talking about, these incredibly extreme abortion bans and views, and it is, i guess to use both of your words, an opportunity. >> well, it is, and i sure wish those republican operatives had talked to their republican candidates and legislators and not had them pass these extreme bans, but you're right, this is where we are now. you look at the united states senate candidates and i'm glad you showed tim ryan there in ohio, running on a platform of restoring women's rights. of course, ohio, having one of the worst abortion bans in the

country in effect, and that's a state where there are traditional sort of mainstream republicans, people that believed in individual freedoms and there is a huge, huge number of moderate women, suburban women who are going to be completely turned off by jd vance and what he is doing on this issue. so, i think -- and you can look at, you know, look at pennsylvania, arizona, nevada, go down the list. georgia. they have nominated -- the republican party has nominated folks who want to make abortion completely illegal and impossible to access, and they are doing it proudly. they're saying some of the most extreme things, and as claire said, of course, in a midterm election, one of the questions is, who's motivated enough to go out to vote? and we know, you know, in the past few months, people have been concerned that there would be sort of a lackluster interest among democrats. i feel like the republican party has just fired up an entire group of people who otherwise

might normally sit out. the only other thing, nicole, i wanted to just shout out to tim ryan for speaking out on these issues because as we know, abortion is an issue that doesn't only affect women and it is really incredibly important to see men in leadership positions and in the senate running for office speak out about these issues as well, because there are -- when we do the polling, and we just finished polling at american bridge, men are as concerned about this loss of access to safe and legal abortion. they're as concerned as women. >> yeah, i mean, i also, claire, i thought the way he framed it as the republican party is the party against freedom, was something that, you know, my work on campaigns will resonate with republicans and independents as well. claire, you have had to sort of speak to a state with passionate views across the ideological spectrum. what did you think of tim ryan's

message? >> i thought it was spot on. tim ryan is one of the ones i first used the phrase, looking after those people who take a shower after work instead of before work, and you know, he's very good. this is authentic. he's independent, but he gets that people want freedom, and that's what's so -- the hypocrisy of the republican party, saying they don't want big government telling them to wear a mask, but it's perfectly fine for big government to tell a rape victim whether or not she can terminate a pregnancy. and the disconnect, you know, the government can't tell us whether we can carry a gun, but government can tell you whether or not your doctor feels comfortable giving you cancer treatments if you're a pregnant woman. so, this is how extreme this has become, and i think tim ryan is the right message. this is all about freedom. the supreme court took away a right for the first time. took away a right of freedom

that we have in this country for 50 years. it is a startling aggression against freedom in this country and hopefully everyone will feel it more and more as time goes on and they'll get more and more motivated to get involved politically. >> this feels like a really important conversation that we should keep going. you both have said things that while i have been off camera, i sort of -- my jaw has dropped. i've said, oh my god. so i hope we can continue to call on you. we'll continue to focus on it. cecile richards, claire mccaskill, thank you so much. up next for us, those facing the mob of insurrectionists on january 6th, those engaging in hand-to-hand combat with them are continuing to speak out about the brutality of that day and how it still haunts them. new and important words from one officer. and how it still hauntsm

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say something to the effect of, you know, i don't f'ing care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. >> the physical violence we experienced was horrific and devastating. my fellow officers and i were punched, kicked, shoved, sprayed with chemical irritants. >> i remember tony mentioning knives, guns in the form of pistols and rifles, bear spray, body armor, spears and flagpoles. >> i was particularly shocked at the scene the insurrectionists violently attack us with the very american flag that they claim to -- resolve to protect. >> let them in, let my people in, take the f'ing mags away. >> in iraq, we expected armed violence because we were in a war zone, but nothing i experienced in the army or as a law enforcement officer prepared me for what we confronted on january 6th.

>> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in the east. for the men and women in law enforcement who put their lives on the line to defend the u.s. capitol and everyone inside of it on january 6th, cassidy hutchinson's testimony was eye-opening and deeply disturbing. it revealed that not only was the former president aware of the potential that violence would likely ensue when he rallied his supporters, but when he was told that they were armed, he responded this way, "they're not here to hurt me." who the rioters did hurt were the capitol and metropolitan police officers. more than 140 of them were injured that day, suffering through what one officer described as medieval hand-to-hand combat. and of course the five officers who tragically died the next day or in the weeks and months that followed. in a brand-new op-ed, capitol police sergeant aquilino writes

that he was betrayed by the ex-president. he writes, my hands were bloodied. my right foot and my left shoulder were so damaged that i needed multiple surgeries to repair them. my head was hit with such force with a pipe that i no doubt would have sustained brain damage if not for my helmet. sergeant gonell goes on to describe how much this has impacted every aspect of his life. "after recently passing the lieutenant's test, i hope to be promoted. instead, on the day of ms. hutchinson's testimony, i was heartbroken to hear my doctors tell me that at 43, i should no longer work with the police force. the physical and emotional damage i sustained on january 6th not only cut short my career, it has upended my life. five of my colleagues in law enforcement died, and more than 850 rioters were arrested. so many families have been ruined because of one man's lust for power."

the former president's summoning of the mob and directing it to march down to the capitol would be the focus on tomorrow's hearing by the january 6th select committee as it continues to draw a larger and more detailed and direct line between ex-president trump and the horrific and violent events of that day. sergeant gonell calls out the ex-president at the end of his new piece, saying, "the enabling of mr. trump needs to stop now. he should not only be banned from running for any other government office, he should never be allowed near the white house again. i believe he betrayed his oath to defend the constitution, and it was to the detriment of me, my colleagues, and all americans whom he was supposed to protect." it's where we start the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. the editor-at-large of the bulwark and msnbc contributor charlie sykes is back. plus clint watts, msnbc national security analyst.

our friend, andrew weissmann is back, former fbi general counsel, former senior member of the mueller investigation. we're happy to announce he's back with us as an msnbc legal analyst. and joining us for the "washington post," congressional correspondent and msnbc contributor jackie alemany. jackie, this piece, i know, was widely circulated on social media. i'll send it out in case any of our viewers didn't read it yet. but the committee very intentionally started with sergeant gonell and officer finone and officer dunn and the human -- the victims of the violence that day, and to hear him put cassidy hutchinson's testimony in the context of trump's indifference to the arms and weapons they were carrying, which included ar-15, and saying, they're not going to hurt me. well, the people he did hurt were officer gonell and his colleagues. >> and those officers have been front row, nicole, at every single hearing the committee has

held so far, and it's been challenging in being in the audience as a reporter, watching them react to the testimony that has been provided by trump's allies, former staffers, and normal people, people lake shaye moss, election workers along with their colleague, a police officer who was also injured, suffered a concussion during the january 6th insurrection and walked us through that in very painful detail. officer gonell, michael fanone, they've all been emotional at times. they've shared hugs. they've been there for emotional support for some of the witnesses who have testified. they seem to have developed a very close bond that's been of interest, but i think tomorrow we're going to hear even more about those weapons that trump and his staffers were well aware of and were warned of in the lead-up to january 6th. i think cassidy hutchinson's testimony really only scratched the surface on that as she told

investigators behind closed doors during those videotaped depositions that we saw that she was told by anthony oronado there would be a large amount of different weapons that protesters would be carrying that day as they were armed and prepared to march to the capitol. we just got off a background briefing with committee aides who told us that we're going to hear more, we should expect to hear more about what trump and his allies, people in the west wing, people around the president on that day knew and were warned about the violence in the lead-up to january 6th, along with new information and actual ties between some of trump's allies and these far-right extremist groups, people who have been radicalized by trump and his allies and what they were doing and organizing on january 6th. >> okay, so i don't like to overuse the breaking news banner, but i feel like you just gave us a truckload of it. jackie, let me just follow up if you're able to answer this.

you know, what cassidy did was she tied both awareness of proud boys and oath keepers to that inner sanctum of the west wing. she also had evidence that trump was aware of guns, knives, spears and sort of homemade crude weapons and said, they're not going to hurt me, take down the mags. are you saying that the committee can go farther than that in tying trump to the weapons and knowledge of the violence that was planned for that day? >> i'm not sure -- we're not -- the committee did not tell us how far they're actually going to go in making that link, whether or not trump himself was notified and directly informed of it. but what was implied and laid out on this background briefing was that there were others who knew about the violence and the potential for violence and the

existence of these weapons in the lead-up to january 6th and on january 6th. and cassidy hutchinson really laid that out herself as well. i mean, she detailed a conversation that people around her were also privy to, but i do think there were a number of things, and i think we've seen these easter eggs sort of throughout the past six hearings already drop. liz cheney, for example, told us, as she was questioning cassidy hutchinson, she asked her about a call made between mark meadows and michael flynn and roger stone on the evening of january 5th. we don't know what that call entailed, but these are these little things that cheney has dropped and other lawmakers on the panel have dropped along the way to foreshadow what i think is really going to be laid out tomorrow. >> yeah, i mean, and speaking of easter eggs, this is -- the briefing jackie heard is more recent, but this was stephanie murphy and jamie raskin talking

about one of the other clues that's been dropped publicly and that's the significance of donald trump's december 19th "be there, it will be wild," tweet. let me play that for you, andrew weissmann. >> we will lay out the body of evidence that we have that talks about how the president's tweet on the wee hours of december 19th of, "be there, be wild," was a siren call to these folks. >> the first time in american history when a president of the united states called a protest against his own government. people are going to hear the story of that tweet and then the explosive effect it had in trumpworld and specifically among the domestic violent extremist groups, the most dangerous political extremists in the country at that point. >> so, andrew, what jackie's reporting suggests and what these sort of previews, if we can even call them that, these hints suggest, is that while we've seen the coup plot from

the top down in the previous public hearings, what we're going to see tuesday is the coup conduct sort of from the bottom up, and see where those two intersect. what are your questions or what are you going to be watching out for, knowing that tomorrow? >> so, i think that the political case of the president's complete indifference to violence and his awareness that it was going to happen and then his reaction when it was happening, which was to say, i don't really care, even if the vice president is hanged. it's just affirmation of what we know about his supreme narcissism. and the record is going to be replete with that. but i'm looking at it more from a doj perspective, and i'm looking to see how much are they going to be able to show his intent and what he knew and

intended beforehand when he was saying, come to washington, it will be wild. i think the nature of that meeting, what we hear about that meeting, i am fascinated by the january 5th call, but he says he wants mark meadows to call, of all people, michael flynn and roger stone. those are not people that you would think you would call if you were any reputable president. those are things that i'm particularly interested in hearing as potential evidence in a criminal case that the department could bring. >> andrew, we're going to talk more about the piece that you have penned today, but i want to ask you, just building off of jackie's point about what cassidy revealed and the opportunities to sort of layer on top of that, additional perspectives or witness testimony, you know, what she revealed is that donald trump knew who was at risk of getting

hurt and who was not. donald trump knew with specificity what the weapons were, ar-15s in the trees. you heard that radio traffic. knives, spears, and self-fashioned sword-like weapons. donald trump was for taking down the mags. there were other republicans who were bulletproof vests. how much is the foreknowledge of violence and the presence of lethal weapons important to what you're talking about, a criminal investigation? >> it certainly is important. i mean, imagine a case where there was no evidence that the president was aware that these people were armed. you can imagine a defendant in that situation would say, i had no idea. i thought this was going to be a peaceful protest. this takes that argument completely off the table. but there still is the question of, did people intend the attack on the capitol, the entry into the capitol, the attack of the

sergeant talked about so eloquently in his op-ed piece and has testified to, that you want to make sure if you're a prosecutor that you can deal with those kinds of defenses and show that this was intended. that's one of the reasons that i think it is really useful to pull the camera back and look at this as part of a larger scheme that the former president had to stay in power, that it wasn't just about january 6th. there were all sorts of effort to use carol leonnig's phrase, it was a hydra-headed conspiracy. >> right. charlie, i want to show you some of the heads. these are people that i think i will never forget watching the images of the rioters crawl all over the capitol, but now, in the context of a potential conspiracy, their words are interesting. and this is a compilation put

together by just security, that they seem to feel and believe they're there for trump and on his orders. >> we were invited here. >> he swore an oath. >> they're meeting. >> we were invited by the president of the united states. >> there's a [ bleep ] million of us out there and we are listening to trump. your boss. >> dude, let's tell trump what's up. >> trump would be very upset right now. >> they'd be like, no, just say we love him. we love you, bro. he'll be happy. what do you mean? we're fighting for trump. >> they're right about one thing. he was happy. he was so happy that we know it took many, many takes for him to produce a video telling them to go home, but he did make clear

he was happy. he says, we love you, even after the deadly insurrection has been quelled. charlie, what are you looking for in tomorrow's public hearing? >> well, what we've talked about from the beginning is that the committee had to connect the dots, and they are connecting the dots. this is not just a political dispute. this is not just a question of counting electoral votes. this was the hydra-headed conspiracy to overturn the election. it was a seditious conspiracy, and i think what's going to be highlighted tomorrow is that this was a -- an extremely violent conspiracy. with all of the deaths, with all of the -- all of the injuries, and i have to tell you, i'm really glad that you led with sergeant gonell's piece, because i was sitting in a parking lot of a mcdonald's in west bend, wisconsin, reading that aloud to my wife as we were looking at signs across the street, "we back the blue, donald trump." and the question that keeps coming back is, how do people deal with the cognitive

dissonance of the fact that the former president of the united states launched this attack against law enforcement? and yet continues to be the guy that claims that, you know, he stands by that bright blue line. so, i think that tomorrow's hearing is going to be extraordinarily powerful and extraordinarily important in underlining the gravity of what happened and why donald trump cannot be let off the hook for this. and i do hope that at some point, we have the juxtaposition of the testimony of sergeant gonell and these scenes of violence with republican senators like my own senator, ron johnson, talking about, well, it was just a peaceful protest, or it was just tourists who were touring the capitol. because this alternative reality needs to be refuted and needs to be refuted very powerfully. >> well, because it is tied to the current threat of domestic violent extremism in america, and clint, i want to read you something also from just

security. americans may feel that these incidents of political violence are high politics. they can avoid them if they steer clear of the political arena. that feeling is widespread in countries i've studied where political violence grows to dangerous levels. it is always a false hope. in the united states, it is already far more dangerous to exercise freedom of speech than in the recent past. driving cars into civilians used to be a tactic favored by overseas terrorists. it has been recorded just twice in the united states before james alex fields jr. murdered heather heyer by driving into a crowd of protesters. yet from george floyd's murder through september 30, at least 139 drivers drove their cars into protests across america, injuring 100, sometimes severely, and killing four. clint, are we too distracted to sort of rally a coalition of the decent to say, we don't want

this? have you seen enough support in public polls that on the right, there's an appetite for this? >> nicole, i think for the most part, it's a slow, creeping cancer that's behind the scenes. most people think it will not happen to them or if they don't see it in their local community, they're not aware of it. they think january 6th is an aberration, just this one-time thing that was a crazy stunt that won't happen again. but definitely in the local context, i think there's a lot of evidence to the contrary. i think if you ask americans, do you feel free to talk about your opinions on most policies out in a public place? they probably would say, no. and that's one of the first indicators of a creeping fascism that we see coming across countries. you can go back to the 1930s in germany. you can look at a lot of other countries when you start to have an iron fist of a gestappo-type presence take over and start to quell things. and then you look at the policy adjustments, just in terms of the abortion issue right now, if you look across the board, there's a complete polarization

but also an imbalance and talks of extremism in many different directions. you'll have some possibly that are angered about the ruling on abortion. you have others that see it as a license to essentially advance their beliefs in a very violent way. i'm particularly troubled as well by the role of mass shootings. when you go look at these mass shootings, as much as they are often done on individual motivations, when you look at the language, they are filled with political rhetoric that is quite common today, things that you are hearing from political leaders across all state and local elections and particularly in congress. so when you combine all of that together, i think we do have a change in this country. people don't want to talk about politics. they would rather be aathetic. they don't want to talk about the election or trump or not trump because they don't want to get in public debate. that also offers a window for the most extreme elements to advance and i think that's where we're at at the moment. it's quite a powder keg heading into election day 2022. >> what you describe is a cycle

that reinforces the most dangerous aspects of the cycle. i'm going to need all of you to stick around for a little bit longer. when we come back, as we've previewed a bit, andrew weissmann has written a piece on why the justice department and attorney general merrick garland should radically rethink the way they may be conducting the investigation into the insurrection. and there's brand-new reporting late today that suggests testimony about donald trump's conduct may be catching the eyes of prosecutors at doj after all. plus, the republicans who enabled and continue to enable the twice-impeached disgraced ex-president, author and friend of the show, mark will be our guest to discuss his book and what he calls the cowardly caucus, those who are still doing trump's bidding. and the horrific images of ukraine, where russia is stepping up its targeting on civilians there. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. p its targen

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there's something out here. - nope. - nope. nope. nah. no. nope. - hell no. - no. a very powerful argument being made today from a former top federal prosecutor about how each new lead that's been revealed through the january 6th committee's hearings should be not only impacting the justice department's investigation but inspiring and transforming it completely. andrew weissmann says attorney general merrick garland, whose promise was to follow the facts wherever they lead, even began to narrow a bottom-up probe that started with the rioters and treats the capitol attack as one single event and should instead be investigating january 6th as a hub and spoke conspiracy, the

larger multiprong, multispoke orchestrated scheme that it was by the ex-president and his allies to cling to power as we've learned from the evidence shared in the hearings thus far. weissman writes this in "the new york times" today, "investigating the january 6th insurrection in the context of the other means by which trump has sought to undermine the transfer of power serves to strengthen any future case by presenting the complete evidence of the perpetrator's actions and intent, and it undermines possible defenses. the american public is entitled to a thorough, fearless, competent and fair criminal investigation. that is still possible, and what facts that investigation reveals and what prosecutorial decisions are made thereafter will surely be subject to debate. but until we pursue all leads, that debate will be truly academic to the detriment of our democracy." our panel is back, andrew weissmann, you know the players. what you write seems painfully obvious, even to nonlawyers after watching the public

presentation of evidence by the january 6th committee. why do you think doj didn't start with this kind of investigation new detail? >> so, i think some of that is a failure of imagination, and i think some of that is a failure of backbone. i think that looking at january 6th in terms of what happened that day and the people who invaded the capitol led to a sort of myopic focus on those events and then proceeding up the chain. and i think there is a leaving to other offices, whether it's the manhattan district attorney's office, or the new york attorney general's office, or the georgia state criminal authorities, other prongs of what could be viewed as essential conspiracy, but i think the power of the january 6th committee is the fact that

they looked at this from the perspective of what was donald trump trying to accomplish? and all of the various means, whether it's pressuring georgia officials, whether it's pressuring the vice president, whether it's beheading the leaders of the department of justice to put in a crony who would say that there was an investigation, a fake one, into fraud. all of that is part and parcel of the same objective, which was undoing a democratic election. and i think that that is really the lesson from the force of the january 6th committee presentation is that you really have to look at this as one ball of wax, and you need to, i think, have both the skill set and the fortitude to rise to the occasion at the department to meet the facts here. >> you know, jackie, if liz cheney and bennie thompson and

chairman raskin didn't exist, the department of justice might have gotten away with being myopic, as andrew weissmann just said. but the fact that a congressional committee did exactly what andrew described, albeit with a different mission and a different standards of proof, they're not a prosecutorial body, but liz cheney, before the select committee existed, i think between the time of the second impeachment and her being ousted from leadership, was always interested in the head of the fish, and she always viewed trumpism and the anti-democratic practices and enabling of her own party at the highest levels as the gravest threat to democracy, so she almost went about it in the complete opposite direction from the top down. talk about how distinct that is now that we've seen basically 15 months of each branch's investigation. >> well, not only does cheney have prosecutorial chops, which

has been pretty obvious just based on her questioning alone in those videotape depositions with now, at this point, thousands of witnesses who were in some capacity involved with january 6th, but lawmakers on the panel have said that from the start, cheney has come into this with a laser-like focus, and that's been in part because she's known exactly what's gone on behind the scenes. she was able to come into this with a treasure chest of knowledge of knowing what republicans were saying, knowing even all of the secondhand gossip, knowing firsthand these conference calls discussing the 25th amendment, the days after january 6th. she's known the ins and out of this investigation before it even started, really, and if you ask most lawmakers on the panel, they'll credit her with being the driver of the strategy here. i mean, if we look back, even in december of this past year, you

already had cheney and bennie thompson talking about sort of the criminal arc that they were going for. it was unpopular at the time. people criticized them for being overtly political, but they already knew, based on that evidence they had only gathered in the first six months, that the former president was in some way potentially involved in criminal activity, and i think we're going to see even more of that going forward. i mean, our sources are telling us that in part, this reason for the delay next week is because more republicans have already come forward since cassidy hutchinson. you obviously, they saw pat cipollone appear for an extensive deposition on friday. there are others. there's more evidence being obtained by the day. the national archives still has more to turn over from the records request that was made over a year ago. so, i've been told that we could expect this and maybe,

potentially, even more hearings going into august. i think that this committee's approach also gives the doj some cover here as we talked about last week. merrick garland came into this job with the mandate of trying to restore the department of justice's independence. i think that the committee's work now gives him that runway to go a little harder at trump, despite some of the hesitation for further politicization of the department. >> you know, charlie, i have never bought that. i mean, what looks like politicization of the department is being too afraid to let the rule of law apply to the ex-president. i mean, the analysis -- and maybe i'll be proven wrong, but i think that what andrew weissmann writes is spot on. this was not something, you know, a ladder to climb, which is almost like an elementary, you know, drama series understanding of criminal

prosecutions, but this was always directed from the top. that was clear to anyone on twitter. >> no, and i agree. look, i think that andrew's piece is absolutely fantastic, and i hope they are reading it at doj, and at the risk of 2020 hindsight, i think the biggest mistake was not appointing a special prosecutor early on. i think -- i keep thinking about watergate and the role that leon played and that judge john played and we don't have either one in the picture yet, because we haven't had an independent prosecution. we haven't had federal -- the federal courts engaged. but i also think you make a great point, though, about -- that liz cheney has seen from the beginning that this is a topdown conspiracy. this is not a one-day conspiracy. this is not something that happened on one day in early january 2021. this is the culmination of a -- of a plot that was orchestrated, led, and inspired by the sitting president of the united states, and any prosecution has to deal with it as that kind of a

conspiracy. >> i wish i had the whole hour to talk to all of you, charlie sykes, clint watts, andrew weissmann and jackie alemany, thank you so much. when we come back, mark will be here to talk about his new book about the republicans who gave up everything they stood for in service to you know who, the twice-impeached disgraced ex. that's next. who, th when you have technology that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds... wee ot that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling] ex that's next. sharp, stabbing pains, or an intense burning sensation.

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there was a time before the hearings on january 6th, before the actual insurrection itself, before the day donald trump was elected president when a large number of republicans in congress used to speak out against him regularly. republicans like lindsey graham, ted cruz, marco rubio, and chris christie were united in their disgust at donald trump and his candidacy, like disgusted publicly, out loud, on tv. hearing the end of not only the republican party but also of democracy itself. they knew that then. what happens next, of course, is that trump won, and they, i don't know, forgot it all. as the party and his supporters begin to favor trump, those republicans we named and many more like them completed one of the biggest moral flip-flops in american political history, becoming some of donald trump's biggest cheerleaders, backers, and enablers, all in an effort to stay relevant and in good

standing with him. in his new book, "thank you for your servitude," atlanta staff writer and our friend, mark leibovich, chases the unyielding loyalty of trump sycophants from his campaign to now as the disgraced twice-impeached ex-president continues to control his party through bullying, lying, grifting, and deplatformed missives. the really, truly sad part, most republicans tell mark they're in on the joke. according to january 6th committee member adam kinzinger, who also sees it that way, he says this, "the vast majority of people get the joke. i think kevin mccarthy gets the joke. lindsey gets the joke. i think the problem is the joke isn't even funny anymore." joining us now, our good friend, mark leibovich. congratulations on the book. it's brilliant. >> oh, thank you, nicole. >> it is -- it is so you. it is so well reported.

it is so tragic, though. i have some of my favorite parts, but just tell me how you came to write it and what you found. >> i mean, what's interesting is that we obviously have had no shortage of conversation over the last six, seven years about donald trump himself, and we've certainly had no shortage of reporting about, you know, him and what's gone on in the white house and all of the, can you believe this, can you top this, you know, nuggets that come out of, you know, our reporting. and there's been a lot of discussion about the voters. what there hasn't been, i think, enough discussion about are the people who allowed it to happen. these are the putative leaders of the republican party, the kevin mccarthys, the mitch mcconnells, the lindsey grahams, the marco rubios, i mean, go down the list. and look, it's -- everyone always says, well, donald trump is very popular with the base, and republicans continue to like donald trump and will probably vote for him again if he runs again. that is true, but it's also true that one of the reasons for this is that all of these leaders i just mentioned and many others

have just waved the white flag from day one, and when there's not an opposing view, when people are just sort of going along and acting like door mats for their own several interest or out of their own cowardice or what have you, this is the result we have. i mean, donald trump has survived some unbelievable things. the fact that we're still talking about him as a viable political figure in america after what he did on january 6th and everything leading up to it is stunning to me. and yet, here we are, you know, a year and a half later after that, and he has a really good chance of not only running for president but also being the republican nominee for the third consecutive time because no one has really done anything to stop it. >> you know, i understand why ted cruz and the weenie guy with the fists do it. but what about the people who were republicans before -- in the time before trump? i mean, what about rob portman and richard burr, who was -- i mean, why did those guys say, you know, i don't actually -- and bob corker tried, but he didn't have a lot of support among normal republicans.

what was their issue? what was their problem? >> i mean, everyone's a little different. i mean, first of all, burr did vote for impeachment the second time. and portman didn't. i was sort of surprised by that, given that they're both retiring. but i actually was sort of more concerned with the over-the-top people. if you look at the clips of marco rubio and ted cruz and lindsey graham during the '16 campaign, it was absolutely clear they knew exactly what this guy was about and they still do. when you talk privately to people around them and their colleagues, they still know exactly what this is about, but they have sort of chosen their horse and they are riding him to parts well beyond what i think is good for the country, and -- but again, this is why he -- donald trump is still popular with much of the base. and look, i think everyone has their calculations. i can't speak to that. but unfortunately, it's just really, really depressing, and i think it would be -- things would be really different if there were even a half dozen liz cheneys.

>> yeah, but he's popular with the base because the base doesn't get any signals from any of the party leaders that he's trashy, corrupt, and breaking laws right and left. i want to read -- i mean, al simpson basically says as much. i want to read some of my favorite polls from the book. it's exquisitely written, as everything you touch is. so, there's something about the dirty devotion that trump has fostered that transcends the psychology of power and belief systems. it goes well beyond the fear of losing a job and a parking space. "we're not really talking about common sense or even politics anymore in my party," said alan simpson, the republican senator from wyoming, now 90. simpson said he's beside himself at what he calls the tragedy of what's occurred at the hands of this vicious animal who's poisoned this democracy. this is not a republican party, it's a cult. do the guys in on the joke understand that they're not part of a political party, they're in a cult? >> you know, i don't think they think that hard about this. i mean, i think if you're kevin mccarthy, who i spent a fair amount of time with, you know,

talking about all these issues, at a certain point, it's just blinders on. i have a singular goal. that is to be speaker of the house after november elections. kevin mccarthy has a very good chance of becoming speaker of the house after the next elections, and he is just keeping blinders on. he is doing everything he can to keep donald trump somewhere in the vicinity of the rails, not anger the base, not anger his caucus, and hope that he can get to election day in november without sort of tipping the thing over and hoping it holds. and then he figures, once he's speaker, all of his decisions will be redeemed. i'm not sure they will be, but that's his calculation. lindsey graham needed to be re-elected in south carolina. that was the most important thing in his life. he couldn't think about a life outside of the senate. he did what he did, and you know, that friendship, their golfing relationship, whatever it is, it continues. lindsey graham is probably donald trump's closest ally in the senate. they talk all the time. he and mccarthy are -- trump and mccarthy talk all the time. you know, they continue to

support this guy, and again, when the leadership of the party -- and mitch mcconnell, to some degree, and he's a bystander, but this is the reason he is still here. >> mark's book is called "thank you for the servitude." i want to read one more line from it. former republican congressman told me recently the party's only real plan for dealing with trump in 2024 involved a darkly divine intervention. "we're just waiting for him to die." that was it. that was the whole plan. congratulations on the book, mark, and thank you for spending some time with us to talk about it. >> thanks, nicole, always a pleasure. we want to tell you about the latest in ukraine and the war against russia. there's been a dramatic rescue in the rubble of an apartment building hit by russian missiles. we'll have a live report from kyiv after a quick break. hit b missiles we'll have a live report from

kyiv after a quick break

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serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes, including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your doctor about dupixent. in ukraine, russia has stepped up its attacks in the eastern part of the country as well as its targeting of ukrainian civilians. at least 19 people were killed over the weekend as russian missiles struck an apartment building in the donetsk province. search and rescue teams are still sifting through the rubble and debris in search of survivors. this morning, dramatic video shows those rescue teams pulling out a man alive from the ruins of the building. ukrainian officials say that at least 24 people, including a 9-year-old child, are still believed to be under the wreckage. the russian attacks come after

president vladimir putin vowed late last week that the kremlin's military advances have barely begun. that's after the major setback suffered by the russians in the beginning months of the war. let's bring into our coverage nbc news correspondent ali arouzi, live for us in kyiv. ali, there is kyiv. ali, there is a steady drum beat of violence and fierce fighting in the east of the country. let's start with the front lines and then i'd love a political update on how zelenskyy and his people are hold up. >> reporter: i'll give you a quick update on the city in donetsk which is being shelled over the weekend and the apartment block you were talking about. the death toll has gone up to 33 people. we just heard from the emergency services. and the 9-year-old child thaw mentioned is now dead. so it's a really devastating situation there. there are still about 15 or 16 people unaccounted for, as they sift through that mountain of

rubble and debris and what was an apartment building. it was amazing. i spoke to the head of the emergency services of donetsk just about a couple of hours ago and i asked him, what's the biggest challenge you're facing there in your rescue operation. he said the biggest challenge we face getting hit by russian missiles while we try to clear did debris, because there's no letup of shelling in that area. even though they're trying to rescue people and get people out of the rubble, the shelling is landing all around them in that area, so it's absolutely relentless in the donetsk and many other parts of the country as well. >> ali, the war is now in its fourth month. i've seen some of president zelenskyy's recent remarks calling for many of the same things -- more support, more weapons, more aid, but also for the world not to look away.

tell me what the view is from inside president zelenskyy's inner circle and among the people themselves. >> reporter: well, it's kind of mixed. the russians are making a steady but slow grind along the northeast front and in the south. killed another six people in kharkiv and they're showing all the sign of wanting to take places like kharkiv. they've introduced a new coat of arms in kharkiv and a flag featuring the doubleheaded eagle. it's not look, good, but zelenskyy is saying the american missiles are working, might be tipping the scales in its favor, but still a long way to go. >> ali, so grateful to you for staying up and spending time with us. quick break for us, we will be right back. with us.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole, thanks so much. i am ari melber. we begin away breakthrough in the genetics probe from the very top. this is building an on a story we first brought you friday night. it is the rush towards a tempted legal surrender of a trump aide with the written permission of donald trump himself. if that sounds unusual, that's because this is the first time somebody reported a story like this before because you never are trump involved. indeed while other aides testified about january 6th, even trump's own family, none have ever done so with donald trump weighing in in writing in what could