to discredit her testimony and what she said. that'll be a key part of the testimony today, as well. >> great point. we heard from a number of people close to the committee over the weekend. cipollone did not, in fact, contradict any previous testimony, including from cassidy hutchinson. whatever we hear from him today as part of the hearings will be of great note, not just to the wider audience, but, i assume, the department of justice. alayna treene, thank you so very much for being with us this morning. indeed, it is the next january 6th hearing this afternoon at 1:00. every one of these hearings so far has been compelling, the narrative tight and, indeed, putting more and more evidence together for a potential prosecution of the former president. we will, of course, have live coverage all day on msnbc. thanks to all after you for getting up "way too early" with us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. a live look at capitol hill as the january 6th committee

prepares to reconvene for its seventh hearing into the attack on the capitol today. focusing on the extremist groups that led the attack. how the committee plans to tie the far right militias to the trump white house. >> boy, mika, as we look at the united states capitol, which, of course -- >> so beautiful. >> -- was besieged by terrorists on january 6th. if you call people who try to take something over and brutalize cops and try to destroy american democracy terrorists, i guess it's all a definitional thing. you're really starting to see the impact of these investigations, not just the january 6th investigation, but we're going to be talking this morning about what's going on in georgia. lindsey graham has tried to escape a subpoena because the secretary of state in georgia said -- they're republicans. secretary of state said his

fellow republican lindsey graham called and tried to get him to throw out legal ballots. graham is trying to get out of that. of course he wants to escape justice. they all do. but a judge has ordered lindsey graham to now testify in front of this grand jury about whether donald trump tried to steal the georgia election. of course, we know he did. we have the receipts. we have the recordings. recorded, again, by republicans who actually voted for donald trump, mika. a lot of news to cover this morning. we're also following new reports that iran is now supplying russia with weapons to use against ukraine. we'll have the latest on that, and we'll set the stage for president biden's trip to the middle east when we speak with the national security counsel john kirby. with inflation, gas prices and crime, the political environment seems to faye torre

favor republicans right now. why is the gop concerned about the senate? and why is joe biden, with record low ratings, still beating donald trump in a hypothetical rematch. interesting dynamic happening in the polls. willie, joe, and me, we welcome you to "morning joe." good morning. it is thursday, july 12th. we have the former aide -- tuesday. i apologize. guys, i don't know what day of the week it is, but it is only tuesday. >> doesn't really matter. one in five chance of getting it right. willie, they're all kind of the same. >> they're all kind of the same. doesn't matter. >> one day i'll get it right. you guys are sweet. former aide to the george w. bush white house elise jordan. former chair of the republican committee, michael steele is here. and associate editor of the "washington post," eugene robinson joins us this morning. >> willie, to set this up, on our show yesterday which, of course, was wednesday. >> shut up. >> perhaps it'll be next friday.

>> it is tuesday today. >> we were talking about -- having a little fun with the joe biden poll, which shows joe biden's numbers just absolutely tanking. he is at 33%. you know, 64% of democrats don't want him to run again. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. and he is beating donald trump head-to-head. 44% to 41%. we had a lot of fun a couple weeks ago about the fact that there has not been a positive profile written about kamala harris in at least two years. this is not just, you know, the far right that constantly attacks her, thinking that white people in their mother's basement who are 44 years old with cheetos smeared all over their face and their boxers are going to love the stories because they'll feel superior as white men who are at such a good station in their life. but also, we're hearing it from

mainstream media. one outlet after another, one leak after another, that kamala harris is the worst vice president ever, the worst politician ever. yet, you see these head-to-head matchups with the great white hope, ron desantis, and she's always ahead of him. so i think what we're saying is actually starting to show itself in polls, that as bad as the democrats have been, the republicans are just crazy. voters are like, yeah, listen, i got my problems with the democrats, but those people, those insurrectionists and those weirdos and those freaks and those people who are saying 12-year-old girls who are raped by their uncles have to have a forced birth in our state, yeah, i'm not for them. i'm not for people that want whacko 18-year-old kids being able to buy ar-15s and shoot up

schools. republicans go, it's freedom, man. no. these polls show they are rejecting these national republican, trumpist candidates on a nationwide level from the body politic. they don't want it. >> yeah. we're going to talk about these senate and house races in a minute, too. my goodness, when you look at a president who is at 33%, the wrong track number in this "new york times" poll is 70% something. only 13% of americans think we're on the right track. yet, you have this batch of candidates, especially on the senate side in some of the governors' races, who are so bad that republicans may not even take the senate. they may. they have a lot of things working in their direction, but there are states where they should be running away with it and they're losing because of the candidate choice, to your point about the freaks and weirdos. mika, there's no sugar coating it, the numbers in "the new york times" poll, and consistently

now in a series of polls, not good for president biden. >> no. >> but as joe said, there is a wide swath of the country who said, i don't want the guy who cheerily led an attempted coup on the country, based on the hearings, i don't want him back in the big chair. >> yeah. more now from that. the new polling from the "new york times" and sena college. one-third of americans approve of the job biden is doing. the same survey shows he'd once again defeat president donald trump in a -- [ laughter ] >> that's terrible. it is unbelievable. >> terrible. >> mika, you love sports analogies. this is like a college basketball team shooting 14% from the field and still being ahead at halftime. >> yeah. >> like 33-32. you know the second half is going to go really bad for the other side. >> biden's support is underwater with virtually every major

group, with him fairing the worst among 18 to 29-year-olds and the best among black voters. but when paired against trump, however, biden enjoys double digit leads in many of those same categories. trump does hold sizable advantages with the white voters and those 45 to 64. it is interesting, joe biden would say that he decided to run for president when, in charlottesville, he watched all that go down at the beginning of trump's presidency. didn't want to do it. this is why he did it, to try to beat trump and trumpism. it appears, even when the country is struggling with a lot of different issues which would absolutely impact polling and the way people vote at the ballot box, he is still doing that, and that's quite a feat, given what we've been through. >> michael steele, we've been

talking about parallels in france. as those fulton county, so goes france, as the saying goes. in france, you had an election where voters, they didn't like macron. they thought he was too arrogant. they thought he was too elitist, detached. there were a lot of things they didn't like about him. approval ratings were low. they thought le pen understood how they lived better. she probably had policies they supported more. but they said, she's a freak. she's a weirdo. like, we don't want that whack-a-doodle running our country. what we have here, and you're starting to see it now in not only when you look at ron desantis against kamala harris, and kamala harris beating ron desantis. or when you see donald trump losing to joe biden, despite the fact that biden has a 33% approval rating right now.

despite that fact, you have americans not only saying in these head-to-head matchups, but also saying in these senate races in '22, whether you're looking at ohio or looking at pennsylvania, and some of them in georgia, they're like, we don't want the crack pot. we don't want the crack pot in our state. we may agree with them on policies. maybe we think the democrats are too progressive. but we just can't have a weirdo representing us in washington, d.c. i think, i don't know, maybe republicans have finally pushed the envelope too much with some of these insurrectionists and freaks. >> i think rick james did a song about some of the freaks. you made me think about that when you said that about le pen. but the reality of it is, joe, for me, an interesting thing is beginning to happen, which i was curious about at the beginning of the summer. which now seem to bear out.

the difference, i think, is the january 6th hearings. i think a lot of folks were told beforehand, some by the media that were wringing their hands about what this hearing would do and how it would play out and, oh, my god, oh, my god. the committee has put together a compelling narrative, something that is believable for the american people. it's not farfetched. how do we know that? because they lived it. they lived it real time. now, i think people are sitting there going, to your point, okay, we'll leave the freaks over there. we're not happy about the direction of the country, but at least we know we don't have this threat, this ongoing threat to our democracy in front of us. i think that begins to matter a lot more to people as these hearings have done the thing

that people were, some worried about, others curious about whether they'd be able to do, and that is capture the american people in a way that they'd bifurcate, they would separate their concerns about the economy and gas prices and other things apart from what they saw happen on january 6th. and give real meaning to that, the kind of men and women that are going to potentially be leading us going into next year. that boils down to the lindsey graham episode in georgia. why, lindsey graham, are you afraid to testify about what you know, unless what you know leads to some type of criminal concern for donald trump, maybe even yourself? people are looking at that and seeing this group of characters running around trying to avoid accountability, when what the january 6th committee has done

is create an environment, if you will, in which the voters want that accountability. i think they've separated that from how they feel about the economy. >> we're not talking in generalities anymore, willie, in talking about these issues. americans have been hit in the face hard, day after day over the past several months, with horrible mass killings. then having republicans say, oh, you know, we're against universal background checks. 90% of americans support universal background checks. we're getting teenage girls who were raped being able to decide what to do with their lives, with their own bodies. we support forced pregnancies that is executed by the centralized state. then they see the january 6th hearings. trumpists can't say, look what these liberals are doing, the

stories liberals are telling, when these are all loyal donald trump supporters, people who stood by him during his lowest of lows in the white house. people who defended him during his two impeachments, they're the ones now coming forward, testifying against him. so they're seeing insurrectionists. they're seeing what happened on january 6th. they're seeing what happened with the overturning of roe. they're seeing policies that 80% of americans are opposed to, as far as rape and incest. they're seeing these -- one killing after another killing with military weapons of war. and beyond that, willie, they're hearing every day these republicans, like ron desantis, who is playing to the lowest denominator of his base. whether it is banning books,

fighting disney world, having a magical war against the magic kingdom, mickey mouse. whether it is going against the best baseball team in the state of florida. like, these are bizarre things that they're doing to raise money from the most hard core members of the base. maybe they have the 31% locked down hard. but look at the general election matchups, and they all get themselves in trouble. you look at the big states. look at pennsylvania. look at ohio. you look at whitmer in michigan. she was supposed to be in trouble six months ago. my god, she's rolling up huge numbers in most of the polls that we're seeing out of michigan now. >> yeah, there's some great polls. one thing about "the new york times" poll, to go back to it for one second, there's a lot of attention paid yesterday to the 64% number. 64% of democrats say they want someone different nominated in 2024, different than joe biden, which raises the question, who is that person exactly who you

think potentially could beat donald trump? joe biden just beat him 18 months ago. but when asked, okay, let's say biden does run again, would you vote for him against donald trump? 92% of democrats say, well, of course i would. when there is a choice -- >> come home. >> -- sitting side by side, they do come home. let's get back to what you were talking about. a couple polls on the state level. in ohio, an online survey connected by center street pac found representative tim ryan with a wide lead over republican candidate j.d. vance. 49% to 40%. that's among likely voters. in pennsylvania, suffolk university poll from last month of likely midterm voters found democrat john fetterman with a lead over his republican opponent for u.s. senate, mehmet oz, 46%, 37% there. joe, those are one poll in each state. we had the one out of georgia last week where raphael warnock beat herschel walker by ten

points. you're seeing snapshots inside the states where some voters are starting to say, this candidate, now that he's been nominated, is too extreme compared to what i'm seeing on the democratic side. >> yeah, no doubt about it. of course, the "washington post" has written about this, republicans having concerns about their concerns of retaking the senate. this is what is important, and what i have to say, mika, is the most positive political climate for any party, republicans should be rolling up massive victories this fall, perhaps they will. i still think they're going to win in the house. but they're making it so much harder in the senate and in the governor races that aren't gerrymandered. that is, of course, only in the house. and you see it. the further you get away from the gerrymandered house races, the harder it becomes for

democrats in these swing areas, where they should be rolling up huge numbers because joe biden is doing so poorly with voters, especially independent states. >> is he really. while democrats are nervous about the impact of inflation, rising crime, and persistently high gas prices, they're worried about some of the candidates. gop operatives growing nervous behind the scenes. one strategist who spoke to the paper on the condition of anonymity likened the situation to 2010 and 2012 when the party fell short of winning the senate majority because of undisciplined and polarizing candidates. one of the big concerns is over the republican senate nominee herschel walker in georgia. over the last several days, news reports have come out about three children he fathered but had not acknowledged publicly. he also continues to face scrutiny over his business dealings, as well as past

domestic violence accusations that surfaced before the primary. walker has denied any criminal wrongdoing. he's also making headlines this morning for comments he made during a recent campaign stop regarding air pollution. the trump-endorsed republican spoke to a group of supporters in hall county, georgia, over the weekend, and presented a unique argument for not enacting clean air laws. listen. >> we don't control the air. our good air is flowing over to china, the bad air. when china gets our good air, their bad air got to move. so it moves on out of good air space. now, we got to clean that up. >> you know, gene, i've seen so many clips of herschel walker, gene, and i just never know what he's saying.

i always thought donald trump was impossible to interpret with policy. you wrote a piece, "if herschel walker wins in georgia, america will have lost its mind." you write, in part, this. the flashing red lights and blaring sirens are not just about the former football star's myriad of lies and stunning hypocrisy. that stuff doesn't necessarily trouble gop voters in the least, given their continued devotion to donald trump, who counts walker as a long-time friend. it's walker's combination of utter ignorance and total confidence which challenges even that of the president. mind you, walker does challenge even trump's record of dubious achievements on the lies and hypocrisy score. i'm old enough to remember when one secret love child was enough to end the political career for john edwards, who was twice a credible candidate for the democratic presidential

nomination. three secret offspring didn't tackle walker more than it did when he was barrelling down the field at the university of georgia. even as senator, walker seems to believe he knows everything about everything, while his words suggest he knows nothing about anything at all. it truly is stunning. >> yeah. >> i've seen conservatives actually say that america is in a very, very dire state when, especially the republican party, when the party can nominate somebody like this to represent them in the senate. >> it is unbelievable, joe. it is absolutely unbelievable. but this is a major state, this is georgia. in many ways, ground zero for american politics these days. look, if republicans nominate a normal, you know, sensible republican candidate for senate, they have a really good chance of taking the seat away from

raphael warnock. with herschel walker, you know, i think they're going to lose the seat. the reason is, you know, herschel walker is scandal after non-sensical rambing about this and that, after questions about his business practices, questions about this, questions about that. and as you said, when he talks, you know, you have no idea what he is talking about. it's worse than trump. in many ways, he is trumpier than trump. this is the problem for the republican party. they're nominating senate candidates who potentially cannot win. with mehmet oz beat fetterman in pennsylvania? i don't think so. can jd vance really beat tim ryan? jd vance is a novice candidate. i don't think he's got the

moves. we'll see. if it's a huge gop wave in the fall, then that's one thing. but elections are choices, and voters are going to have to make these choices. they're not going to choose whackos to represent them. take an honest look at the candidates. they'll say, we just can't elect, you know, this republican because this is just not a senator. certainly the case in georgia. as far as the democrats, where they stand right now, i think your analogy of the college basketball team that shoots 14% and is one point ahead at halftime is about right. the democrats and president biden have had crisis followed by catastrophe followed by calamity all along to this

point. biden still beats trump in head-to-head matchups. if you assume the next two years can't get worse in terms of circumstances, democrats are not looking that bad for '24. they're not looking near as bad as many people thought they would for '22. >> elise, on the state of georgia, herschel walker has frustrated, obviously, people like mitch mcconnell and others who believe it should be a layup or a short touchdown run, to put it in herschel walker terms, to take the senate back. but with candidates they're seeing, we know that may not happen. there's a reason the national republican party is rushing in advisers and aides and debate prep people to get around herschel walker. when he's on the stage outside of a primary next to senator warnock, it may not be pretty for him. it'll be a test, very welcoming from mississippi, of the power of football and of celebrity in

politics. is that enough to carry herschel walker, despite all of his problems, into the united states senate? >> willie, before we did our "morning joe" focus groups in georgia, i watched pretty much all of herschel walker's ads. watching the ads, you really feel, wow, you're brought back into, you know, his athletic legacy. for a second, i was just like, oh, wow. then i remembered, oh, this is herschel walker, who has no policy chops whatsoever. and has, you know, questionable mental fitness. then that's what we actually heard from our republican voters, that they were concerned about herschel walker's mental fitness. they thought that there were a lot of things that were problematic in his background. this was before the primary. that kind of doubt is really a blinking red siren. it is one that certainly mitch

mcconnell saw, and there was nothing he could really do about it. because herschel walker was donald trump's candidate. so you're looking at a georgia senate seat that should have gone republican that, twice, it's probably not going to because of donald trump. >> boy, it's remarkable, what donald trump has done to the state of georgia. he, of course, lost it in 2020. he started a scandal down there now with his stupid calls to the secretary of state. he got obliteratobliterated, hi candidates, a couple months ago. of course, he turned the senate over away from mitch mcconnell over to chuck schumer by destroying the republicans' chances in december of 2020 with the two special elections. and it continues now with herschel walker. but before we go to break on this, michael, it is very important. i want to underline this fact. republicans had a choice. in every one of these states that we're talking about, they

had a choice to pick an arch conservative, somebody who said they supported donald trump, to pick a pro-life candidate, to pick a pro-second amendment candidate. to pick a pro-free market candidate. pick a capitalist. in all these places. you had dave mccormick in pennsylvania, but they picked a freak in dr. oz. you had matt dolan in ohio. they picked this hypocrite, jd vance, who is acting like a freak, talking about stolen elections in ohio. so republicans had an opportunity. this is not about us going, oh, they can never win because they're pro-life or -- no, no, those are the candidates that win in georgia. >> yup. >> those are the candidates that win in north carolina. those are the candidates that win in pennsylvania and michigan and wisconsin. but they didn't pick the rational, reasonable candidates.

they picked insurrectionists, whackos, freaks, and conspiracy theorists. let's be very clear here, from one former republican to a current republican. we're not talking about their mainstream policy positions that are hurting them. >> no. >> we're talking about the fact that these people are weirdos. >> well, all of that is right. it does remind me of -- all of that is exactly right. and here's why it is so important to understand what joe just said. you go back, and people are making the comparison to 2010. i know 2010 well. i had to deal with some candidates who, how should we say, were a little freakish of their own. what i did as the national chairman, along working with my state party leadership in the various states, was, okay, we've done enough crazy. we're not doing that anymore. we're going to focus on taking the policy battle to the

democrats, on climate, on the big topic of the day of health care. joe, the party has abandoned that. candidates can't talk about it because there is no position on any of those issues you mentioned. you know, you got herschel walker out there basically talking about the republican position on the climate. oh, well, good air leaves america and goes to china, and we get china's bad air. everybody in the room is like, yeah, that's what we do. so, you know -- >> well, that -- >> -- what to you think is going to happen? if you're mitch mcconnell and looking at it, well, a, we don't need that in the senate and, b, with that, we're not getting the senate. >> yeah. >> so that's the problem. there is no structure. the leadership has abandoned control over the kinds of

candidates they're putting in place. the state parties are running amuck with their primaries and conventions elevating these individuals to the positions. >> wackos. >> wackos and freaks, without the regard of actually winning an election, capturing the policy opportunity against democrats who have been floundering over issues like filibusters instead of dealing with some of the things that americans are concerned about. >> it's just so terrible, though, with the wack-a-doos, what they're done to people in this country. there are people who believe the insurrection should have happened and want to see more. there are people who believe all this stuff, and that's the issue. i mean, there are -- we meet them all the time. they've been misled, and that's the one scary part of this. hopefully when people are at the ballot box, they will think about this country and the difference between right and

wrong. still ahead on "morning joe," we're counting down to this afternoon's january 6th committee hearing. we'll go over what to expect as the panel prepares to link the trump white house to the extremist groups that led to the assault on the capitol. plus, a federal judge has denied steve bannon's request to delay his contempt of congress trial. the latest on that legal fight and what the justice department is saying about his new offer to testify before the house select committee. also this morning, president biden leaves for the middle east tonight. the national security council's john kirby will join us for a preview of that trip, including the president's stop in saudi arabia. and president biden unveils the first image from the world's largest and most powerful telescope ever. we'll take a closer look at that brand-new photo that has star-gazers very excited. as we go to break, another republican politician who spoke

at length about the environment without really saying anything at all. >> i want clean air. i want clean water. cleanest air with the cleanest water. the environment is very important to me. somebody wrote a book that i'm an environmentist, "the environmentist." i'd like to get it. i have it in the other office. i'll bring it to my next news conference. i'm sure you'll be thrilled to see it and report all about it. i'm a big believer in that word, the environment. i'm a big believer, but i want clean air. i want clean water. clean water your projects done right

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"be there. it'll be wild." he said it was the siren call for extremist groups like the proud boys and oath keepers, whose top members have been charged by the justice department for seditious conspiracy for their roles in the attack. an aide on the committee says it'll present ties between these groups and trump associates like roger stone and michael flynn. in terms of witnesses, a source close to the investigation says we will hear from former oathkeepers spokesman jason van tatenhove, who has been critical of the group since walking away

in 2017. a source also telling nbc news an ohio man named steven ayers, who pleaded guilty to storming the capitol last month, also be testify. he posted an image to facebook days before the attack, saying, quote, trump was calling on us to come back to washington on january 6th, then quoted the president's "be there, we'll be wild" tweet. white house counsel pat cipollone met with the committee last friday. joining us now is the "guardian's" hugo lowell. it's been a couple weeks since the committee got together, back in session now. pick up where we left off, and how does this hearing today about the oath keepers, about the other groups that arranged to come to the capitol, brought there by president trump, how the committee sees this fitting into its larger story. >> yeah. we left off with republicans seeking pardons, the john eastman seeking pardons, and rudy giuliani seeking a pardon.

now, we're going to focus today on the tweet that trump sent, a call to extremist groups to storm the capitol and the groups surrounding the protests surrounding january 6th. they're going to start with the 18th of december meeting at the white house, according to my reporting. mike flynn, trump's former national security adviser. the former ceo of overstock. and emily newman, this trump aide. and sidney powell showed up at the white house ununvitaed, unannounced, and tried to get trump to install voting machines and install sidney powell has special counsel. they go to the residence. at some point, a decision gets made, whether it's been trump or whether it's been his aides, we're not entirely clear, but at some point, he makes the decision. 1:42 in the morning, trump sends this tweet on the 19th of december saying, "big protest

that will be wild. see you there on the 6th." all the machinery around january 6th springs into action. stop the steal gets the permit. permit dates are changed to january 6th. the proud boys start prepping and creating the group chats for the 6th literally hours after trump sends that tweet. it all sends us down the path of january 6th. the committee will say trump was responsible because he sent that signal. he green lighted the operation. >> hugo, steve bannon's contempt of congress trial will go forward as planned next monday. a trump appointed federal judge rejected bannon's request to delay the trial. the former trump adviser was indicted last year for ignoring a subpoena from the january 6th committee. the judge dismissed several motions from bannon's legal team, leading to bannon's lawyer asking the judge, quote, what is the point of going to trial if there are no defenses?

the judge agreed and told bannon's team to consider that. meanwhile, the justice department said bannon's sudden wish to testify before the january 6th committee is nothing more than a last-ditch attempt to avoid accountability. over the weekend, bannon's legal team said he would give testimony after former president trump waived executive privilege. but a new filing from the doj says there was never even privilege to begin with. a trump lawyer told the fbi the former president never actually invoked executive privilege over any particular information or materials. the justice department also says bannon's willingness to comply now will not help him, writing, the criminal contempt statute is not intended to procure compliance. it is intended to punish past non-compliance. hugo, how much trouble is steve bannon in, and what is he trying to do? >> i think he is in a lot of

trouble. judge nichols yesterday really eviscerated his defenses. in fact, the only defenses he really has left is that he somehow misunderstood the deadlines in the subpoena or he was misinformed about the deadlines in the subpoena and he might have possibly interpreted the committee coming back to him after the deadline, when they sent a letter saying, "we hope you still cooperate," as somehow he was not in willful default or willful non-compliance of the subpoena. those are the only avenues left for him to argue. i mean, there is nothing left for him. judge nichols stripped every other legal defense he had. of course, like david schoen, his legal lawyer, was aghast. he made an interesting point, though, judge nichols, about the executive privilege. he said, you know, even if there was executive privilege concerns or arguments to be made, it wouldn't apply in bannon's case. because the doj legal memos that his lawyers are citing don't apply to a private citizen like steve bannon, who was a former aide to a former president by the time january 6th rolled out,

and was in no position to be ignoring a subpoena. so i think bannon's next option is either to take his chances and go to trial and try to convince a jury. when he loses, to go to the appellate court and try to overturn the controlling case law. or he just pleads at this point. >> hugo, let's hop down to the state of georgia. we mentioned this story earlier. a judge in fulton county ordered senator lindsey graham to testify before a special grand jury investigating donald trump's efforts to overturn the election results in georgia. graham was a handful of those trump confidants subpoenaed last week, but graham said he'll fight it in quote. he was called a, quote, necessary witness to the grand jury probe. he's been ordered to testify in august. brad raffensperger said he, too, lindsey graham, called raffensperger from a neighboring

state, not from the state of georgia, of course, to discuss the vote in the state of georgia. >> i mean, i think so, right? the fulton county investigation, we believe, may be the most dangerous legal investigation for trump. that could really ensnare him because we have such clear evidence of his efforts to overturn the election. i mean, the whole call was recorded. he's trying to find one more vote than he got in order to overturn the election. i think it is a dangerous investigation for him. it is a treacherous legal moment. but lindsey graham, i mean, he would have known, in doubt, in real time, because he was so close to the former president. the fact he is calling brad ra raffensperger, roughly at the same time, almost like trump's lackey, shows there was a meeting of the minds. trump and lindsey graham were trying to get raffensperger to do the same thing, making him important in the information. even if he is litigating this, i expect the fulton county

investigators to push for his testimony. he is so important and clearly knows inside information here. >> yeah, raffensperger said lindsey graham called him december 2020, asking him to re-examine absentee ballots. we'll see what happens. congressional reporter for the "guardian," hugo lowell. great reporting again. thanks so much. we'll have more coverage of the hearing coming up at the top of the hour. it is at 1:00 this afternoon in washington. january 6th committee member jamie raskin will give us an exclusive preview of the testimony from pat cipollone. also, a father whose son was killed in a school shooting calls on president biden to do more to stop gun violence. we'll show you that moment and the president's response. and a little later, we will go through what you need to know about the new dominant strain of covid in the united states. "morning joe" is coming right back. >

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49 past the hour. joining us now, the editor in chief of the "atlantic," jeffrey goldberg is with us. good to have you on board. i'm wondering if you feel the january 6th hearings are breaking through and really getting americans to think about perhaps americans who might have supported trump, to really think about whether or not they want to push trumpism in america forward. >> right. i don't know. it seems that there's some softness in republican support. we're seeing some interesting polling on that front. obviously, donald trump is still the favorite of at least a large plurality of republican voters. on the other hand, there is this

kind of softness. people have a ready alternative now in desantis. whether that holds or not, i don't know. none of us can know. but they see -- but some people see a plausible alternative. we'll put him aside for a second. just acknowledge that, you know, the effort was never focused on the hardest core 20%, 30%. the effort has always been focused on, let's say, you know, people who voted for trump, have some qualms about his personality, his character, et cetera, and, you know, these hearings have been so much more effective than people speculated they would be. maybe that was expectations management, clever expectations management on the part of the committee. i don't know. but it's been shocking after shocking. you know, the hearing that's coming today is fascinating because it is very, very simple. donald trump went on social

media and said, "come to washington," et cetera, "it is going to be wild." it was an invitation to the rabble to come and do what the rabble then did. it's fairly clear to, well, me at least, that he knew what he was doing and that the people around him knew what they were doing. they needed the energy and chaos that that kind of person would bring, and they got it. so, you know, maybe this is working in the sense that people who are closed off to the idea that january 6th was a coup attempt, maybe they're open to it now. >> we've been talking this morning, jeffrey. first of all, thank you is so much for joining "morning joe joe's" "atlantic" festival. >> you have great writers. >> the editorial in the "wall

street journal" echoes what we've been talking about, donald trump and the midterms. the "wall street journal" editorial page talks about how donald trump, time and time again, has hurt the republicans, republican senate candidates. says that he is doing the same thing. mr. trump, who may announce his presidential candidacy before the midterms. at the end, talks about how if democrats lose, which brings us back to the cnn and "new york times" poll. for all the bad news for mr. biden, he still beats mr. trump in a theoretical 2024 presidential matchup. what does it say that joe biden, the least popular president in modern times, still beats donald trump? the conservative "wall street journal" editorial page tells republicans, basically, that they would be fools to once again allow this guy to be the standard bearer for their party. you see it in the polls right now. >> right. you know, this reminds me of a

saying or idea that's being passed around, which is, in five or ten years, no one will admit to ever supporting donald trump, right? >> right. >> i expect the "wall street journal" editorial page in ten years to sort of go, trump? who? you know, the dalians, the long dalians with trump will be long over. the interesting thing, and i was listening to previous discussions, one of the interest teresting things that republican strategists and supporters have is you're having the lesser trumps, herschel walker and jd vance, come in to races. extremely polarizing figures without the populist talents, let's call them, of donald trump. people are beginning to see a kind of writing on the wall. there was -- i'm mixing a lot of metaphors here -- but there is an easy opportunity for a layup

in november for the republicans, but in state after state, you see what professionals might call the wrong candidates up. so this is feeding the general anxiety on the republican side, that maybe this is the wrong horse. >> well, of course, as we heard from michael steele, who knew all too well about it, this has happened before. republicans keep doing it. they did it with mcdonald, i am not a witch. they did it with todd aiken. i think it was richard murdoch. todd aiken was talking about rape, and you can't get pregnant if you're raped, i think he said. murdoch, sharon engle. i think it is safe to say, with all due respect to these people who wanted to be public servants, they were weirdos and freaks. democrats are going back now and running against more weirdos and freaks. that's why we're seeing it, gene, time and time again. we're seeing states that

democrats should already have nailed down -- or republicans should already have nailed down that they continue to struggle with. >> that's absolutely right, joe. as we said, this is going to continue. i mean, this seems to keep getting worse for the republicans at a time when it ought to be getting better. just to jeffrey, i wondered if you or any of your very talented correspondents has an idea of what's going on in trump's head as he watches all this. he is -- you know, he is not stupid. he sees how herschel walker is doing in georgia and the danger he is in. he sees these candidates that he supported not necessarily doing well in their races. what do you imagine or know he might be thinking? >> i want to clarify, gene. you're asking me to tell you

what is inside donald trump's head? just want to -- >> yeah, i know, i know, jeff. >> you're an old editor. you know what an impossible assignment is. [ laughter ] the answer, i actually think there is an answer. i think there is a sane, tactical portion of his head. i think donald trump became president because he could read tea leaves. he read populist anxiety, and he exploited it. i have to think that, you know, in the privacy of his tv watching room at mar-a-lago, he is watching herschel walker talk about good air of america being pushed to china, or whatever that sequence was, and he is thinking, you know, i've said some crazy things, but that's crazy. i mean, that's what logic would

dictate, but i don't think anyone has any particular insight, without talking to the man himself. but, remember, i mean, he didn't become president just by saying crazy things. he became president by calibrating, calibrating, calibrating. and i assume, and, again, one shouldn't assume, but i assume that he is feeling that, in certain states at least, things are a little off, out of whack. >> jeffrey, let me turn you to president biden's trip abroad. he is leaving tonight for israel, where he will spend some time, then heads to saudi arabia, the most controversial part of that trip, where he needs the saudis to pump more oil and to get more gas into the world economy. also, he has to confront them, the crown prince, in particular, about human rights violations. what should we expect to see from the president this week? >> well, the saudi visit, you're right, is the key part of all this. and, you know, my newest guess

or newest supposition this morning is that the president is going to use the threat of covid as a way to avoid an mbs handshake, shaking hands with the crown prince of saudi arabia, who, of course, the cia believes is responsible for -- cia and others believe is responsible for the murder of jamal khashoggi. so i have a feeling that it's going to come down to a lot of handshake watching when he gets to saudi arabia. he is going to saudi arabia because we need oil. he needs saudi arabia to pump more oil. that's the only reason he's going. there's a lot of criticism of that, but it is part of a president's job to hold his nose and deal with unpleasant would-be allies, supposed allies. i'm not justifying it or condemning it. i'm just noting that he doesn't actually want to go to saudi arabia and see this guy. on the israel front, israel is going to have another election.

israel has an election every 10 to 12 minutes over the past four or five years. he's going to be meeting a more progressive prime minister. he is happy that he doesn't have to spend much time with netanyahu. and my impression from talking to people in the administration is that, obviously, they would love to see la peed win come the election later this fall, but they're going to play that one fairly subtly. this is more of a maintenance visit. the thing to watch is how he manages -- how joe biden manages his distaste, even loathing, for saudi arabia's ruler. >> jeffrey, you are promoting the newly revamped "atlantic" archives. >> indeed. >> one of the articles you can read in the "atlantic" archive is your interview with mbs. what advice would you have on

how president biden should approach this, based on your experience, being one of the few american journalists to interview mbs after the murder of jamal khashoggi? >> yeah. you know, i don't think that joe biden has to work very hard when he goes to saudi arabia to express displeasure with the decision making and leadership style of mbs. i think, from what i can understand, he's actually repulsed by the guy. he also knows that politics is politics. there's no -- very little chance that mbs won't become king when his father eventually passes. he's already the most powerful person in the kingdom. he's making all of the major decisions. and so i think for audience at home and for human rights activists everywhere, they're going to want to at least see

joe biden, if not get in mbs' face in some kind of public way, they're going to want to see him put khashoggi front and center, even if the actual discourse, the reason he is going, has to do with oil and ukraine and russia. but i think it's not going to be that hard for joe biden to express his actual feelings about the way the kingdom is being run. >> jeffrey, elise mentioned the just launched archives, and it features articles that dates back to 1857, the magazine's inception. tell us about it. >> well, it is tremendously exciting. >> wow. >> you know, you can go now onto the "atlantic" website and find our civil war correspondent, nathaniel hawthorne, reporting on the war. you can find frederick douglass talking about universal suffrage and reconstruction.

you can find earnest hemingway's first published short story. humor pieces by mark twain, dubois and more. it is thrilling. we have more than 30,000 new articles posted up on the website. it's taken us a while to get there, but it's a treasure-trove. i encourage everybody to just go to that search bar and put in something that's interesting to them and something amazing will pop up. >> editor in chief of the "atlantic," jeffrey goldberg. thanks a lot. always great seeing you. we appreciate it. three minutes past the top of the hour. elise jordan and michael steele are still with us. joining the conversation, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. and white house bureau chief at "politico" and the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. >> mike barnicle, let's bring you into this rolling conversation we have been having about the "wall street

journal"'s lead editorial today. it's talking about donald trump and the midterms and brings up what michael steele brought up last hour, this is starting to possibly look like 2010, 2012, when republicans had a chance to do extremely well and they just kept nominating crack pots for the primaries. they appear to be doing it again. donald trump appears to be, as the "wall street journal" editorial page says, appears to be hurting republicans again. they ask their readers, they ask their conservative readers, they ask republicans, what do you make of the fact that joe biden has the lowest approval ratings in modern american history for a president? yet, he still loses to donald trump. >> yeah, you know, what jeffrey had to say about donald trump, i totally agree with. there's a part of donald trump that is truly crazy. the country has witnessed that. more importantly, a lot of republicans have witnessed that, especially over the last year

and a half. but what donald trump has done to himself is perhaps the most interesting aspect of this, joe. in the sense that for the last year and a half, all this ehas he has talked about is the past, about things he felt was stolen from him. his election, his re-election was rigged. it was stolen from him. the stolen election. stop the steal. january 6th, everything around january 6th, all of it revolves around donald j. trump. the reality is you have a man in mar-a-lago who has constructed his own world. there is a part of him, certainly, that is realistic enough to know when he listens to a self-appointed candidate, herschel walker, herschel walker is beyond belief dumb. beyond belief. he is a public figure, and he is running for the united states senate from a critical state as a result of donald j. trump.

trump has to realize, part of him has got to know the reality of the situation. he is in big trouble with republicans because of the way he's behaved and because of everything that he has talked about. has to do with things in the rear-view mirror rather than things people are confronted with on a daily basis going forward. >> certainly, this seems to be the view that's crystallizing in both political parties right now and the white house. though the environment couldn't be friendlier for republicans this fall, and things do, admittingly, look good for them in the house of representatives, the senate is a toss-up. senior white house aides believe democrats can hold on to this. maybe it ends up 50/50 again, but that would still give them control with the vice president breaking the tie. in part, because of what we've been discussing. the republicans have nominated the wrong candidates in a couple of key states, none more blatantly than herschel walker. michael steele, the trump effect looms large on this. not just because walker is his

guy, but because he is still the loudest voice in the party. i think we can admit, and polls suggest this, his grip on the republican party has slipped somewhat, but he is still the biggest voice there is. so if he's unable to look forward, if all he wants the do is look back, maybe to the point where he jumps in and declares his 2024 candidacy ahead of the midterms, how much of a complication is that for republicans who otherwise seem like, hey, things look good this november? >> oh, it's a big complication. it's one that a lot of washington republicans do not want to see materialize at all. i'm sure you know from your conversations, jonathan, and your reporting, how on record and off the record, some of these republicans are like, "nah, we don't need to do that. we want to move on." a lot of folks took that new hampshire poll that "morning joe" highlighted a couple weeks, showing desantis, you know, winning the day, and shopped that around and put that in the

ether among republican intelligence, which may be an oxymoronic term when it comes to anything related to trump. nonetheless, they were trying to emphasize the fact that it's time for us to move on. but here's the rub, folks. in all of this conversation, the one thing we're not taking full account of, is donald trump has not engaged us. donald trump is basically on the sidelines throwing and lobbing in, you know, some points and some ideas, saying some stuff, occasional rally here or there. when the man actually gets back in the game and decides to engage on a day in and day out basis, ramps up appearances, wraps up stumping for candidates, which i understand there is possibility of him doing this fall, that changes the dynamic with respect to those republicans who have fallen off of donald trump. i think that is a lot softer than people may realize.

you need to be prepared for the fact when the man decides to get back in the game full throttle, which he has not done yet, he has not done yet, it will change the way the narrative unfolds. a big culprit in that will be the media. because even without a social media platform, donald trump puts out a piece of paper with some phony, you know, presidential seal on it, puts out something, it is covered like it's real serious news now. what do you think he is going -- what it is going to be like when he's actually in front of microphones around the country on a day in and day out basis? so i think folks need to get realistic about what lies ahead and how that may play with those so-called soft republicans moving off of trump going into the fall. >> you know, willie, i think, actually, that it just makes -- i just think it is going to make it even more difficult for those candidates if donald trump is on twitter saying crazy things

every day. if donald trump is focused on the past, which he is. i think it actually -- michael may be right, and we'll talk about it later on. i personally think the more he is exposed, the worse it gets for him now because he cannot stop obsessing over losing. he lost. he can't get past the fact that he's a loser, and he carries that around with him every day. he makes republican candidates who did not lose in 2020 talk about him losing and claiming that he didn't lose. so that's his obsession. i'm not so sure somebody obsessed with his loss is going to be good on twitter. i'm not so sure somebody who is obsessed with the fact that he's a loser and he lost an election to joe biden, and he's still a

loser, still losing, as the "wall street journal" says, still losing to the least popular president in modern polling history, i'm not sure that somebody that has that massive loss hanging over him every day is going to be able to help the republican party. just my opinion. >> lost the popular vote twice. impeached twice. one-term president. you're exactly right, joe, those candidates last time around in georgia would have loved to have talked about the economy and their own campaigns rather than answering for everything donald trump did. glenn youngkin, who won in virginia, was able to kind of keep donald trump at arm's length and talk about issues in his state. he won. candidates don't want to have to talk about the 2020 presidential election. we'll see if he comes back on the scene. today, on capitol hill, there will be more conversation about what he did leading up to the attack on january 6th. today will be the seventh hearing of that committee.

it says it will provide evidence that links close trump allies to the far right extremist groups that led the attack. the panel says it'll show how a tweet from the former president calling for his supporters to be in washington on january 6th was, what they call, a siren call for the militia groups to show up at the capitol, to challenge the certification of the election, and eventually to attack that building. let's bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. you spoke exclusively with committee member jamie raskin. what'd he tell you? >> reporter: a wide-ranging interview yesterday with chairman raskin, who is going to be one of two members who is leading today's hearing, alongside congresswoman stephanie murphy. and you hit it on what this hearing is going to focus on. it is how the mob came to the capitol on january 6th. they're going to be focusing specifically on the ways in which a white house meeting on december 18th translated into an early morning trump tweet on december 19th, that promised the crowd to be there and be wild on

january 6th. that's going to be the thread that this committee follows, bringing us all the way up in their timeline to january 6th itself. it tees up what chairman raskin told me is going to be the final hearing, in his view. that one we expect to come, at this point, next week. most notably is what he told me about the nearly 8 hours of testimony from the former white house counsel, pat cipollone. he said during the nearly 8 hours, that cipollone corroborated nearly everything. listen to what raskin told me. >> white house counsel pat cipollone has corroborated almost everything that we had learned from the prior hearings. and he had clearly tried to talk president trump down from his efforts to override the election. i mean, he had been, apparently, accepting and supportive of the

lawsuits. there were 8 hours of it. i was there for most of it, and i didn't hear him contradict any other witness. well, i certainly didn't hear him contradict cassidy hutchinson and, you know, i think he had an opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say. so i didn't see any contradiction there. >> reporter: we'll see him tomorrow in the hearing? >> he will be part of the hearing in terms of videotape testimony. >> reporter: look, willie, this is going to be the first time we see cipollone as part of these hearings. you'll remember the multiple times committee members even using the floor during these hearings, asked cipollone to come forward. his testimony is going to be critical, and it explains why he was so important. when you understand the focus that's going to be placed in today's hearing on that meeting on december 18th between external lawyers who were trump allies, internal lawyers at the trump white house, and trump himself, this is how raskin

explained that meeting and why it is so important to today. >> we will tell the story after what has been called the craziest meeting in the trump presidency, something that was not normal, that was hot-blooded, contentious, deranged. basically, they had some last-minute hail mary desperation ploys they wanted to advance, including the military seizing the election machinery and appointing sidney powell as a roving special counsel with the power to prosecute people for imagined or real election offenses. this was opposed strongly by the white house counsel and by others on the white house staff. the meeting went for more than 5 hours. at the end of this contentious and strange meeting, that went to the wee hours of the night, donald trump apparently resolved to do what his final course of

action was. he sent out, in the middle of the night, after 1:00 a.m., the tweet that would be heard around the world. that tweet asserted that there was no way he could have lost the election. there was definitive proof on it now. then he said that there would be a big rally in washington. be there. we'll be wild. >> reporter: willie, you and i over the years that we were covering the trump white house probably had sources describe a lot of meetings to us as the craziest meeting ever. so the fact that raskin is saying that this is that meeting that they're going to spotlight today, very notable. just to bring you inside the room for that meeting, i know you've interviewed raskin many times, as have i. as soon as i walked in the room yesterday, i walked into him typing in his office furiously on his computer. as soon as i left, he went right back to it. he told me that with all of the influx of information they've been having, the committee is not just rescheduling hearings, as we reported yesterday, but that he, himself, has had to

rewrite his script for this hearing six or seven times. they are trying to bring the most fresh and up-to-date information as they get it. this has always been the challenge for this committee, conducting active public hearings while also still actively privately investigating behind the scenes. >> yeah. those 8 hours of testimony from pat cipollone, obviously, figuring into all the rewrites now, with the new information. ali vitali with a great look ahead to the hearing today. thanks. mika, a crazy meeting in the white house, a high bar. to have sidney powell, in the category of mr. pillow in terms of her grasp of reality, leading a conversation about seizing voting machines, we'll hear much more about that today. >> for sure. now, here's a look at some of the other stories we're following this morning. the father of a student killed at marjorie stoneman douglas high school interrupted president biden yesterday at an event meant to celebrate the newly signed bipartisan gun law.

the president touted the law's passage in front of an audience filled with victims, survivors, and family members of several mass shootings. before the ceremony, manuel oliver, whose 17-year-old son joaquin was killed in the 2018 shooting, took issue with the use of the word "celebration" at the event. tweeting, quote, the word "celebration" has no space in a society that saw 19 kids massacred just a month ago. oliver shouted over president biden at the white house, saying the administration needs to do more. take a look. >> will we match thoughts and prayers with action? i say yes. and that's what we're doing here today. today is many things. it's proof that, despite the naysayers, we can make meaningful progress on dealing with gun violence.

make no mistakes -- [ inaudible ] [ applause ] >> let me finish my comments. let him talk. make no mistake about it, this legislation is real progress. more has to be done. >> yeah. the parent whose child was killed in the parkland shooting, fred guttenberg, was at the ceremony, as well, and said the law was an important first step. after, he tweeted, i always promised i would publicly embrace anyone on the right side of this legislation. i am proud to say that i just gave texas senator john cornyn a big bear hug. a new, dominant omicron strain is driving up cases and reinfections of covid in the

united states. more people are contracting the ba.5 variant multiple times in quicker sequences, compared to previous subvariants, officials say. this version of the virus is highly transmissible and immune from prior infections and vaccines -- immunity from prior infections and vaccines doesn't help as much as it used to. so far, there is no evidence that the ba.5 causes more serious illness, but the cdc still recommends wearing masks in public indoor settings. president biden has unveiled the first ever image from nasa's new space telescope. it offers the deepest look at the universe ever recorded. nasa administraor bill nelson said, quote, if you held a grain of sand on the tip of your finger at arm's length, that is the part of the universe you are seeing. just one little spec. part of it shows life from

nearly 13.8 billion years ago. the image was taken by the james webb space telescope, the largest ever space telescope ever built. nasa is expected to release four more galactic images later today. absolutely fascinating. it is like a time machine. still ahead on "morning joe," president biden will confront a slew of challenges when he leaves for the middle east today. john kirby joins us to discuss that trip, including biden's controversial meeting with the saudi crown prince. also ahead on "morning joe" -- >> the bullet that hit this little boy, cooper roberts, in the mass shooting at highland park's fourth of july parade, tore a very perilous path through his small body. you see, the military assault weapon which was used by the shooter is not just another gun. it's a military style weapon. >> majority whip dick durbin on

the senate floor yesterday calling for action on assault weapons in the wake of the highland park shooting in his state of illinois. he'll be our guest this morning. and the american economy is at an inflection point. there is plenty to worry about. there's also a lot to celebrate, as well. steve rattner joins us next with charts. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

i look back with great satisfaction on my 32 years of active duty. i understand the veteran mentality. these are people who have served, they'e been in leadership positions, they're willing to put their life on the line if necessary and they come to us and they say, "i need some financial help at this point in time." they're not looking for a hand out, they're looking for a little hand up. my team at newday usa is going to do everything we possibly can to make sure that veteran gets that loan.

7:26. little cloudy over new york city. we had some ominous looking shots over the past couple days. it's like -- >> beautiful. >> yeah, sort of looks like filming locals for the "matrix." los angeles yesterday just smoggy-licious. >> let's get to steve rattner. >> this is new york city, after all. of course, the kids, certainly over the past ten years or so,

since he's been coming on and doing the charts, they call it the city that rattner built. let's bring in steve rattner, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst. steve, i'm just a simple caveman lawyer, as you know, and i see these charts and i see the economy. and i even talk to people who weren't reading "sports illustrated" in the back row of their university of alabama economics class, and they don't seem to know what is going on with the economy right now. you get some great news, grea ns more confident, but then you hear the news. we're covering this all with your charts, but, boy, if you can briefly talk about how confusing, how difficult it is to follow all the cross-currents of the current economy.

first of all, let's start out with the good, which is the job news. >> first, joe, even people who sat in the front row in their economics class, did the homework, listened to the professor instead of checking the sports scores are finding this the most incredibly confusing economy. it is a strangest i've ever seen. we have good news and bad news. we'll show you strong jobs numbers, some concerns. it is a confusing time. so to start with the jobs side, some little gremlin put the wrong headline on my chart today, but we'll put that aside for the moment. what you can see on the left is that we've had really strong job growth. in fact, last month, we passed the highest number of private sector jobs that the economy has ever had. fully recovered the private sector and continue to show grows at an extraordinary pace. 3 million new jobs in this year alone. on the right side, you can see

that wage growth has also remained constant and consistent. we are consistently growing wages. the ying and the yang of this is wage growth has slowed down. that doesn't sound like good news. we want wages to go up for americans, but we need wages to moderate to get inflation under control. the good news is it has begun to do so, and it is around the 4% range. still growing but not quite as fast. >> yeah. steve, you know, i've talked about this on the show. i know you'll agree with me. we in america, and we've done it for a very long time, we have presidents getting way too much credit with the good of the economy, way too much credit for the bad things that happen with the economy. this isn't a knock or an alibi for the current occupant of the white house. i say it with every president. unless they're just extreme policies that cause some damage. but you look at the fact that we have more jobs now in our economy than we did before covid

hit, that speaks, i believe at least, and i'm always a cheerleader for the united states and the u.s. economy, i think that speaks to the extraordinary resiliency of american capitalism. yes, i just said it. american capitalism, with its flaws, it is pretty damn extraordinary, especially when you compare what we are doing right now compared with the rest of the world. >> absolutely. absolutely. look, we have the most resilient, the most flexible economy in the world. i do think -- i agree with you, the president generally gets more credit, more blame than he deserves. i do think president biden gets a good amount of credit for creating all those jobs this year and staying very focused on creating jobs and expanding the economy. compared to europe and other developed countries, we are certainly in a far stronger position. >> let's talk about commodity prices. they've rolled over, as you say in your next chart. it looks like we may be getting

a little bit of relief when it comes to gas prices. >> yes, that's the other piece of good news for the day, which is that there are some, and call them green shoots if you want, but slightly hopeful signs on inflation. the challenge we have, of course, at the moment is trying to manage inflation. it is a bit like trying to land a 747 on an aircraft carrier, to get it on top of the aircraft carrier without it crashing into a recession. that'll be tricky, as we'll see in a second. in any event, inflation seems to be showing hopeful signs. commodity prices are like an early warning indicator of what is going to happen. they've rolled over. lumber is down well below where it was before all of this started. copper is back to where it was before the pandemic. wheat is back to where it was before russia invaded ukraine, and so forth, all good news as you can see on the right in gasoline prices, which dropped for 27 straight days. it's gone from over $5 now to $4.68 as a national average, as

crude oil has also settled back. these are all hopeful signs the inflation problem isn't getting out of problem and is, indeed, starting to moderate a little bit. >> you know, steve, on your next chart, we talk about consumers, about consumer spending and consumer confidence. i must say, we've always looked at, what is it, the university of michigan always had the consumer confidence studies. they seem so disconnected, not only from where the economy is going, but also they seem disconnected from what consumers themselves are doing. they're spending more, much more than they were at the depths of covid. yet, those numbers keep going down on the confidence side. >> they are spending more than the depths of covid, and that, of course, is part of the working shortage problem, the fact you still can't get a lot of things, the fact we have this unbelievable mess in the airports and the air travel system is a function of consumers spending more. at the same time, joe, look at retail sales on the next chart, very recently, you've started to

see, and this is, again, ying and a yang of good news/bad news, you've seen consumer spending moderate. the turquoise line at the top is actual dollars, but you really have to inflation adjust this to find out what consumers are really doing. as you can see in the red line i circled, the last month it did go down a little bit by 0.4%. first time since december that's happened. that is a sign that consumers are starting to pull back and are starting to spend less. again, a ying and a yang to this, we want consumers to spend money, have more times and enjoy their life, but we need there to be less spending to cool off this inflation. hopefully without tipping us into recession. so it is a number we watch closely. the interesting number, as you eluded to, to me, anyway, is on the right, which is the university of michigan consumer sentiment number. it's hit an all-time low. data collected since 1978. even in the depths of the

financial crisis in the late '70s when they started doing it, even after the dot com, after 9/11, it's never been this low. this is, of course, a little above my pay grade, for everybody else here, symptomatic of the right track/wrong track of the country, the president's approval numbers, people are not happy. we can contribute an awful lot to inflation. most people alive today have never experienced the double digit inflation that mr. barnicle and i enjoyed in the late '70s. maybe it's a shock to the system. there are other things that have caused americans to be so, so pessimistic about the economy and everything else. >> actually, there's nothing else. obviously, inflation is terrible. people go and fill up their gas tank and, again, they're paying less now than they were before. grocery stores, there's supply chain problems. but this is nothing compared to what it was in september of 2008 when our entire economy was

melting down. this is nothing compared to '78 and '79 when inflation and interest rates went up into the mid teens. 15%, 16%, 17%, 18%. i mean, seriously, you can't throw a job at a building where somebody doesn't -- you can't throw a rock at a building where somebody doesn't run out and say, "hey, i'll hire you and five of your closest friends." people can't find workers, mike. >> no. >> this is one of the strongest job economies that we've ever had. yes, consumer spending is going down a little bit, but, again, if we want to land the plane and beat inflation without wrecking the economy, then, as steve said, a gradual decline in that area would make sense. but seeing on this chart an all-time record for a lack of consumer confidence, there's no reasoning there. it is not connecting with any of the data. it is not connected to the

economy. yes, interest rates are a little bit higher. they're historically low. yes, gas prices have gotten high higher, but they've been going down. they're lower than any other country in the west. not exactly sure why those numbers are plummeting to record lows. >> well, i think, joe, you know, we know two things. we certainly know two things. as americans, we have very little attention span, given that we have everything instantly at our disposal through our iphones and things like that. we are also clearly not a reflective nation. inflation in europe, steve, i think is higher than it is here. prices in europe are higher than they are here. unemployment in europe is higher than it is here. so you can make a case that we have a very strong economy still going on. but it's the little things, i think, to joe's point, that cause anxiety among people. that's why the university of michigan poll, i would think,

goes down in terms of consumer confidence. it is the gas prices that people pay, even if they're a few cents lower than two months ago, it still angers people. but it is also the empty store shelves because of the supply chain, the lack of product that people find in stores. so the question to you is, will we ever, or is there a way for this administration to make people more reflective of how lucky we are, how fortunate we are, compared to global inflation, global economic problems? >> it is interesting because everything you say is correct. i wouldn't trade our hand for europe's in a million years. some of their problems, though, are not their fault. the fact that they are more energy dependent on other countries, including russia, than we are, because of the lack of natural resources. some of them are self-inflicted. they've run terrible energy patrol s policies and are paying the price now. multiple gas prices of what

we're paying with, as you say, more inflation, or as much inflation, a lot from energy. not a great jobs picture. you know, the euro just hit parody with the dollar. the euro is so weak, it's come down to $1 for -- >> what's that mean? >> our economy is much stronger than theirs, basically. foreign currency levels are a bit of a scorecard for how an economy is doing. having your currency back to the same level as the dollar when it was as high as $1.30 or so is not great news for them. look, i was talking about this yesterday to a leading politician, i don't think, in this case, the president, rightly or wrongly, has been able to break through on that message. he's said almost everything you had said. he's said multiple times about our position relative to the rest of the world and how much better we are doing in almost every measure, but it is not getting through. again, i'd deter to the more political experts around this table, joe and mika, has to why

that is. but he just hasn't been able to break through. he has said all that, but it isn't working for him. >> steve rattner, thank you very much for coming on this morning. coming up, the january 6th committee shifts its focus today to trump's tweet that led to the insurrection. our next guest says the post was just part of the former president's cultivation of violence that radicalized his followers. and as we go to break, a look at this date in history, july 12th. in 100 b.c., roman general and politician julius caesar was born. he, of course, would name himself dictator of the roman empire. a rule that lasted less than a year before he was assassinated by political rivals. in 1804, alexander hamilton was killed in his infamous duel with vice president aaron burr. the rolling stones performed for the first time at london's

marquee club in 1962. in 1984, walter mondale tapped ferraro as the first woman to run on a major party ticket for the white house. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." >> and today, i am delighted to announce that i will ask the democratic convention to nominate geraldine ferraro of new york to run with me for the white house. [ applause ] e for the white house. white house. [ applause ] pool floaties are like whooping cough.

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it was a sad day, but it was a day where there was great anger in our country. people went to washington primarily because they were angry with an election they think was rigged. a very small portion, as you know, went down to the capitol. then a very small portion of them went in. but i will tell you, they were angry from the standpoint of what happened in the election and because they're smart and say see and they saw what happened. >> that is donald trump in the new documentary "unprecedented," speaking with a portrait of himself in his tennis whites over his shoulder. joining us now, author and historian ruth ben-ghiat. she writes about threats to democracy and abuses to power in "lucid." also with us, contributor editor at the "atlantic." yasha, you had a recent piece titled "america is headed for disaster." in it, you explain your concern by describing the country as a puzzle consisting of five

pieces. yasha writes this, quote, the first piece of the puzzle, the words and actions of donald trump, demonstrate he is a serious danger to democracy. the second, if trump wins another term, he is likely to do a lot more damage than he did in the first. the third, unless democrats win a resounding victory in 2024, the country will likely find itself in a deep constitutional crisis. the fourth, joe biden, the incumbent president, is old, weak, and deeply unpopular, writes yasha. and the fifth, kamala harris, likely to be the democratic nominee if her boss doesn't seek re-election, is even less likely to beat trump. i must admit, the revelations of the past weeks have shaken me. it's long been evident that trump is reluctant to distance himself from any of his supporters, no matter how unsavory, and that he desperately sought ways to stay in power, no matter how anti-democratic. it was not yet clear he privately cheered the assault on the capitol or he tried to lead the mob in the flesh.

believing that we had learned all there is to know about trump's character long ago, i was convinced that he had lost his ability to shock me. i was wrong. yascha, you're not alone, based on what we've heard these last few weeks. testimony mostly from republicans, aides and loyalists of donald trump about his behavior before, during, and after january 6th. shocked most of the country, frankly. let's dig into your puzzle l that you laid out there. it begins with donald trump running again. you assume he is going to do that? >> i think so. he wants to be the center of attention. he loves political power. he has, frankly, reasons to be in high office, to make it less likely he'll be in legal trouble. unless he has some kind of unexpected health problem, i can't imagine he'll abstain from running. >> yeah. hey, ruth, we're talking about, obviously, something you know very well.

you've talked about strong men. you've talked about strong men's fascist behavior. i jotted down really quickly. on january 6th, donald trump says, you'll never take back our country by being weak. you have to show strength. on june 1st, 2020, remember, that's when he marched over to st. john's church and had his people rough up and push protesters out of the way with military people by his side, to hold the bible upside down or sideways. october 23rd, going back to 2015, i'll be a little more violent with protesters. on february 1st, 2016, knock the hell out of them, out of the protest, i'll pay your legal fees. may 29th, 2020, when looting starts, the shooting starts. told proud boys in a debate, stand by. rudy giuliani talked about combat justice. mo brooks said, we're going to beat the hell out of them.

if this isn't fascist behavior, if this isn't strong men behavior, i don't know that is. >> yeah, it is really important to focus on the rally, because if you think like someone who wants to have a coup, if you have the military, they're already in place all over the country with their bases and installations. but if you don't have the military, you've got to have a reason for people, heavily armed people, to come. so the stop the steal rally was the pretext to get everybody there. but rallies have been important since 2015, as you said, in systematic, not only a cultivation of hatred, but i really think, like the fascists, trump needed to change people's perception of violence. to make violence into something positive and righteous and morally acceptable. that's what he did. so between, you know, already known radicalists like oath keepers and proud boys, he also

had this emotional retraining of the public at his rallies since 2015. here we are, six years later, and so all of this came to a head when he called people to the rally and then jacked them up as fascists also do, and sent them off to the capitol. to the >> yascha, i want to talk about the disaster part of your piece. what do you mean when you talk about america headed toward disaster? i know in your piece, you really take a look at what it looks like if trump were to run again and win. >> it really comes from putting all the different puzzle pieces together. we've seen in the hearings that trump is a real threat to democracy. if he won a second term, he would be more dangerous than the first time around. the first time he came into office, he didn't have any experience of running the federal government, didn't have loyalism. the first people he hired were trying to stop the things from

happening. he didn't have full control of the republican party. all that would change the second time around, he'd come in to concentrate more power in his hands, more loyalists to do his bidding and know more about how the federal bureaucracy works. our best hope of saving the american republic is make sure he doesn't win re-election when he runs and when he will, as i expect, win the republican nomination and that means democrats have to beat him. joe biden is less popular than the last 12 united states presidents. kamala harris actually ends up being less popular in many polls, and so unless we change something very important, we are headed for a disaster of donald trump winning power again and we are headed for a disaster of american democracy being under very, very serious threat from 2024 to 2028. >> to yascha's point, a

historian i spoke to recently said if trump were to be elected again after all that happened, after january 6th and he wins again, the american experiment itself would be in grave danger. ruth, part of that would be seemingly the enabling of these hate groups, these proud boys, oath keepers and the like, to have more space, more ability to express themselves and terrorize others. we know today's january 6th hearing is going to bring them to the forefront. speak to us a little bit about the connections you see from an authoritarian-type leader like trump and groups like that who do his bidding, how worrisome is that going forward? >> so every authoritarian takeover has an alliance of elites and thugs on the ground, extremists. if we think of the gop over the trump years as having become an authoritarian party, a party with authoritarian political culture, the proud boys, the oath keepers, militia, all the various extremists he cultivated

are like a paramilitary wing or a militia wing. that's what in the fascist years you had the brown shirts and the black shirts, and they are the ones that are the enforcers on the ground. the other thing that's happening that i'm very concerned about is in florida and texas, these republican governors are incentivizing citizens to be like vigilantes. that also happened in fascism. it could be over abortion or supposed election fraud, but that's part of it. so it's not just that there are these extreists who are already known like the proud boys, but trump and his allies have radicalized ordinary citizens, and that's -- all of these people could become a kind of paramilitary or militia wing of the party. >> by the way, mika, it's -- this is not just a challenge for

democratic candidates. it's not just a challenge for democracy. it's also a challenge and most of them aren't doing a good job with it, for republican candidates who are being attacked and vilified for entering -- trying to enter into reasonable, rational compromises with democrats. we saw it most dramatically in the state of texas, but that's happening everywhere. if you try to get anything done, this paramilitary wing of the republican party, these extremists will go after you as a republican legislator. >> just look at liz cheney's debate for her primary and listen to those candidates. everything you need to know. ruth ben-ghiat, yascha mounk, thank you for your insight.

yascha's greatest book "the great experiment, why diverse democracies fall apart and how they can endure." there is new aid coming for the war in ukraine, but it's to help russia. we'll ask the national security council's john kirby about iran working to provide moscow with armed drones. we'll also talk about president biden's upcoming trip to the middle east. plus the chair of the senate minority committee dick durbin joins us on post roe america. "morning joe" will be right back. >> proud boys, stand back and stand by. back and back and stand byriodontal disease, and i just didn't feel well. but then i found clearchoice. [ forde ] replacing marcia's teeth with dental implants at clearchoice was going to afford her

the ability to take on the world. i feel so much better, and i think that that is the key. is this where your grandparents cut a rug with a jitterbug? or return from war, dreaming of the possibilities ahead. the 1950 census adds new detail to your family's story. explore it free on ancestry.

a live look at the white house right now. president biden is set to depart tonight for a trip to the middle east including that

controversial stop in saudi arabia. john kirby of the national security council joins us in just a moment. we're also following the very latest from capitol hill where the next january 6th hearing gets under way at 1:00 p.m. eastern time. the committee says it will connect the dots between a meeting of top trump allies to a tweet from donald trump and then to the violence at the capitol. >> for telling people to come -- january 6th is going to be wild. steve bannon promising all hell is going to break loose on january 6th. they were planning for it the days before that. michael steele, ruth earlier was talking about -- i thought this was fascinating. she said emotional retraining, as we talked about how not just the proud boys and these paramilitary groups, but also just ordinary americans have been emotionally retrained, and you see that.

starting in 2015 they would go to rallies, donald trump would say, hey, we've got to take them out on a stretcher, beat them up. you beat those protesters up. i'll pay for your legal fees. everybody cheers. donald trump cheers a republican congressman who beats up a reporter because he asks a question. you have people just mobbing -- and jonathan can speak to this more, reporters that are in the middle, the press area. that's just behavior, michael, that just would not ever happen when you and i were active in politics not so long ago. people wouldn't do it. they wouldn't put up with it. and if any republican talked about beating up protesters, everybody would converge on them from the stage. you need to just sit down, maybe

take a valium and think about it for a little while. this emotional retraining -- and from trump, fascist-like behavior. >> i'm so glad you made that point because i thought what ruth ben-ghiat said in the last segment should not be lost on anyone and should not be overlooked because it goes to the essence of what i was trying to say a couple segments before about when donald trump decides to reengage directly on a day in and day out basis, that's what i'm talking about. so everyone is there talking about oh, soft, republicans getting soft. when he decides to ramp it up, he's already laid in place the markers he needs to tap into. from the very beginning of his campaign in 2015, he connected a disagreement with your political opponents with violence. so they were no longer opponents as we saw them on the political

battlefield, joe, when we go up against democrats on some of these issues. they were now enemies. they were now to be owned. there's a rationale behind owning the libs. it's taking them out. there's nothing a liberal can say that these people can find themselves ever agreeing with, and to that extent they need to eliminate them, they will. that's the seed that has been sewed and spawned itself in a way that culminates on jith. my point and i think ruth's point is that's the tip of this very dangerous ugly spear that lies in front of us. i think it's so important to recognize why you have a hard time sitting at thanksgiving dinner tables, why you have a hard time engaging in what used to be just normal political banter with friends and family

that suddenly has turned ugly and personal and in some cases violent. >> it's also why you have members of congress, sitting members of congress who have facebook ads that show them holding an ar-15 saying we need to go after the squad or we need to go after cnn. i forget who gosart acted like somebody getting executed. again, it's a blur now because there's so much violent imagery out there because they're seeing that it works for donald trump or that it worked for donald trump, telling people to beat the hell out of protesters and saluting members of congress that beat up a reporter for asking a question about health care reform.

michael steele as always, thank you so much. sobering words for us to think about. willie. let's turn to president biden's trip abroad. he'll depart tonight for israel to kick off his first visit to the middle east since returning to office. much of the conversation around the trip has been focused on the president's second stop in saudi arabia. there he will come face-to-face with the crown prince believed by u.s. intelligence to have murdered the murder of "washington post" journalist jamal khashoggi in 2013. joining us retired rear admiral john kirby. admiral kirby, good morning. thanks for joining us. let's start in israel. we know the president will meet with the palestinian authority mahmoud abbas. >> in israel, we reaffirm our ironclad commitment to israel's security. the relationship with israel goes beyond just security.

there's a tremendous economic cultural ties. israel has been a supporter of ukraine's efforts in their war against russia on their own turf. there's an awful lot on the itinerary. he's looking forward to meeting with the prime minister to advance again u.s.-israel relations and security across many fronts. with president abbas, i think you can expect that the president will again reaffirm his strong commitment which has held for so many years to a two-state solution. he believes that is the best way forward for peace there between israelis and palestinians and a two-state solution is possible. both sides have to want it. he welcomes the recent conversation that the prime minister has had with president abbas and looks forward to having discussions with him about the possibilities of carrying that forward. >> looking ahead, admiral to the saudi portion of the trip which is fraught, as you know, president biden, then candidate biden said on the campaign

trail, i will make them pay the price and make them the pariah that they are, talking about saudi arabia. will president biden confront the crown prince about the murder of jamal cosh shogi. >> i think human rietsds, civil rights, press freedoms, that's always on the agenda. we lead our policy, the work to get a cease-fire extended in yemen, the longest period of peace in seven years in yemen. i have no doubt that the president will, in every discussion he has on this trip, raise our concerns over values and human rights. i'm not going to get ahead of specific conversations. the president was very clear when he took office about holding saudi arabia accountable for mr. khoshoggi's murder and we wanted to reorient that relationship but not rupture it. saudi arabia is a key strategic partner in the region. there's an awful lot of work to be done, not just bilaterally with the saudis in this trip,

but in the context of the gcc which is really the main purpose here on saturday. >> admiral, i'm curious what -- how do you extract accountability on jamal koesh shogi. i don't know what that conversation looks like. there's clearly going to be a conversation happening. so could you explain the reason why? what is the strategic need for a relationship, for a visit? >> saudi arabia, mika, as you know is a key partner in the region on a lot of issues. obviously energy security will come up in the wake of russia's invasion of ukraine, but counterterrorism, the war in yemen. again, we're on a second extension now of a cease-fire so that real lives, thousands of lives in yemen have been saved. also iran. iran will be a big focus of the jend in the gcc, certainly bilaterally with the saudis, but

frankly, in his meetings in israel as well. iran has been a unifying factor for all nations in that region, their destabilizing activity, our pursuit of a nuclear deal, again, from iran counterterrorism, the war in yemen, certainly on energy security, climate issues, there's an awful lot for the president to discuss with these leaders. the president believes strongly his job is to advance and protect u.s. national interest and there are a lot of u.s. national interests in the middle east right now. >> there are a lot obviously admiral. also a lot of concerns. fred ryan, publisher for "the washington post" published an op-ed this morning. i'd like to get you to respond to this. he said biden's meeting sends a dangerous message about the value united states attaches to a free press. the photo with the mbs signals to autocrats everywhere you can quite literally get away with the murdering of journalists as long as you possess a natural

resource the united states wants badly enough. that, obviously, fred ryan, publisher of "the washington post," the newspaper that mr. khoshoggi wrote for. what would you say to mr. ryan and others who share his feelings? >> i would like to remind mr. ryan and others who feel that way how strongly president biden came out when he took office to make public the intel community's report about the khoshoggi murder, to institute visa bans which have been used more than 70 times. we call it the khoshoggi ban, against countries that want to stifle critics and to sanction, quite frankly, leaders in the saudi government. he was very quick to do that after taking office. i think that spoke volumes about the president's commitment to freedom of the press, not to mention the way this administration and the president treats members of the media in general, the respect with which we try to engage with the press and the fact that we continually raise issues of press freedoms

around the world. i think we're very comfortable that we believe strongly in freedom of the press. but we're also very comfortable with the fact that we have a strategic relationship with sawed saudi arabia. it's a strategic partner in the region on so many issues, whether counterterrorism, iran, yemen, energy security. this is the president's first time as president to visit that region. frankly, we think given the dynamics in the world, given what's going on in ukraine, given the fact that iran still will not take the deal that is on the table to deal with their nuclear weapons program, there's an awful lot for the president to discuss, and this is an important trip. the saudi stop is important, not only bilaterally for our relationship with saudi arabia, but also for the gcc and all the things that are going to be discussed in the context of the gulf cooperation council. >> admiral kirby, it was reported in reuters in recent days that the sales of offensive

weapons could be resumed to saudi arabia and that that's on the table again. is this something that president biden is going to discuss when he meets with the saudis after these are the kind of weapons that have fueled the conflict in yemen for so many years? >> i don't have any announcements to make here this morning about what might come out of this trip specifically. we believe we took a principled stance here with respect to offensive weapons that could be used by saudi arabia with respect to the war in yemen. i think what we really want to do on this trip is see if we can get this cease-fire extended even further and keep peace in yemen and try to get a sustainable peace in yemen through additional reduction of violence. it's notable that this extension now -- we're going on i guess month four year. literally thousands of yemeni lives have been saved. we all recognize the humanitarian catastrophe that

has happened there. >> admiral kirby, good morning. jonathan lemire. yesterday jake sullivan revealed previously classified intelligence that the u.s. believes that iran is expected to supply russia hundreds of drones for use in their war on ukraine. lo and behold, they announced that vladimir putin is heading to iran in the coming days. how is this development going to play into the president's trip? what's the message to both tehran and moscow? >> i think obviously iran will be looming large on this trip. quite frankly, the war in ukraine will be in the context of the discussions that the president will be having with leaders over there. look, russia has expended an awful lot of resource, ground, air, maritime, to this war in ukraine, and this intelligence that jake sullivan talked about yesterday only indicates the degree to which they are grasping to try to replenish some of those resources, some of

those capabilities to continue to propagate this war against ukraine. it should not be too surprising they're reaching out to countries that have not criticized them, have not condemned them, have not done anything to support ukraine. again, i think in the larger context of the trip, clearly the situation with ukraine is going to come up, not to mention the attempts by countries like russia and china to gain growing influence in the middle east. >> admiral, you used the phrase "i think" in response to elise's question. what do you think about the prospect that when the president is in saudi arabia he reminds the saudi arabia royal family that the highway between tehran and saudi arabia could get a lot more dangerous without the help of the united states of america? >> i think it's -- i said "i think" again. the president clearly

understands the power of american leadership in the region, and we have seen in europe on the g7, the nato summit, the summit of the americas when he went to the indo-pacific region, how much american leadership matters. how many nations want american leadership back in the fore. i know the president will be looking for opportunities to again advance our interests in the region, but also to demonstrate that american leadership is still vibrant, is still strong in the region. it still matters. he's going to be looking for all kinds of opportunities to make that clear. >> all right. national security council coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby, thank you very much. we want to turn now to the chairman of the judiciary committee, democratic majority whip senator dick durbin of illinois. i know you're going to be chairing hearings on a post roe america, the legal consequences

of the dobbs decision. senator durbin, thank you for being on today. everybody i talked to is talking about what is going to happen, what has happened to women's rights. can you give us a preview of what you plan to address in these hearings? >> well, there's a great deal of concern. i can tell you one hearing will not be enough. the alito court and their decision in the dobbs case has really called into question some very fundamental decisions, life-and-death decisions being made by doctors and medical professionals. we're going to have one of those doctors testifying today to talk about the dilemma she faces because of this decision. she practices in both missouri and illinois. missouri, of course, is a much different state when it comes to this issue. i believe this is the first of many hearings. we have an established constitutional right for some 50 years of a woman's right to choose, to control her own reproductive health. that has been changed and upset by this alito decision. we have to step forward from

here. we worry about where this is headed. some of the states are just out of control. they certainly would ban abortions if they had the right under any circumstances. secondly, they are pursuing those who are asking for abortion procedure at great lengths and we think in many cases violating their privacy and constitutional rights to do it. >> the state laws are out of control. there are a lot of republicans, a lot of small seat conservatives who are absolutely shocked that a 13, 14-year-old girl who was raped or a victim of incest is going to be compelled by the state to have a forced birth. i know joe biden has been attacked by many people inside the democratic party for not doing enough post roe. but what can the president do? what can you do to stop these sort of heinous laws from staying in effect? >> joe, that's the right

question. of course, we understand the president is considering declaring this is a public health emergency. what that means we're still waiting to hear. this would be the first-of-its-kind in terms of executive orders. i think he's trying to establish the assistance of the federal government in the procurement of abortion procedures outside the states that have banned it. you can see, for example, in illinois, if you take a look at the national map, some people have said for people living in florida, it's the closest state for them to travel to to seek an abortion procedure. so some real hardships are going to be involved here. i think the president is doing everything he can to preserve the basic right that we have enjoyed for some 50 years. >> senator, good morning. we're just eight days removed from that horrific shooting in highland park, illinois, at the fourth of july parade. president biden was talking yesterday about the legislation you passed through on a

bipartisan basis before the highland park shooting. you have said there's not a senator sitting in that body with you who, as a statistical probability, will not face something like highland park in his or her home state. do you believe there's anything more that can be done about guns? it feels like all the political capital was spent on this previous bill that doesn't really get at the problem of those ar-15s, those high-capacity magazines. what else is out there? what else is possible? >> number one in my list in terms of gun safety is to do our very best to control these military assault weapons. i went on the floor yesterday and told the story of an 8-year-old who went with his twin brother to that parade in highland park, a natural place to take your kids on the fourth of july. that poor little boy was hit with one of the bullets from the gun fired by the shooter and sadly at this point it appears he's paralyzed and will be for the rest of his life. i pray that that isn't the case.

but that's been reported. the damage which is done by those assault weapons is far beyond any common firearm. it enters the human body at two or three times the velocity of a handgun and does damage all the way through the body. i read into the record the medical report on the surgery that that poor little boy has already gone through and has to face even more just to try to make it clear to people that these are not guns that should be even considered under the second amendment. they have no hunting purpose, they have no sport purpose, they are simply killing machines that were invented by our military to win a war. the war, unfortunately, is against people sitting on the sidewalk waiting for the fourth of july parade in highland park. it's time for us to come to our senses as a nation. this is the type of thing we ought to address and make it one of our highest priorities. >> senator, the january 6th committee sessions resume this afternoon. i'm wondering, if you look at

this as an assault on the constitution, as an assault on our democracy, there are a lot of accessories both before and after the fact of this assault who still remain at large untouched by what happened, literally untouched. many are your colleagues in the united states senate and united states house of representatives. what are your thoughts of the people who knew what was going on, who knew what they were dealing with in terms of donald j. trump and said little about it? >> thank god for the january 6th committee. remember there was a proposal for a bipartisan commission that and that idea was killed by republicans, particularly by senator mcconnell. luckily we went forward with the january 6th committee in the house which has done a great service in our nation. i want to salute my colleague adam kinzinger from illinois as well as congresswoman cheney for stepping up to make this a

bipartisan effort. yes, there should be accountability. if it goes to the top, if it goes to colleagues in the house and the senate, so be it. there's no reason they should be absolved from responsibility if they can be found to have engaged in that activity on january 6th. >> chairman of the judiciary committee, senator dick durbin, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," the next shows select committee hearing kicks off in just a few hours. we'll have new reporting on what to expect this afternoon when the panel tries to tie the trump white house to the extremist groups that stormed the capitol. plus, a legal fight for steve bannon and hisawyer asking the judge what's the point of going to trial, and the judge seemed to agree. we'll explain that -- >> that's not a good sign. >> no, it's not. as we go to break, willie, today is pub date for a fabulous children's book author and the

book itself. tell us about it. >> you're nice to mention it. my wife christina geist's new book "buddy's new buddy" is out. now a new buddy named sonny who is based, we're happy to say, is braced on one of our great friends, darby lamb who is the star of the book. it's about making new friends, moving new places. a lot of us have been displaced and moved around. kids out of school, starting new schools, there's anxiety about all that, even al of us adults, toeing our feedback into the water and making friends and all the things that go with it. very proud of christina. her third book out today. >> christina's books give kids a reason to be proud and to see the bright side. like parents, you can't come to school with us, it's for us.

i love that whole concept. congratulations to christina geist, and i love the new book "buddy's new muddy." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. watching "" whooping cough. amusement parks are like whooping cough. even ice cream is like whooping cough, for people of any age. and it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. sometimes followed by vomiting and exhaustion. ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination because whooping cough isn't just for kids.

january 6th attack on that building will be held this afternoon at 1:00 with a focus on the violent mob the committee says it will examine how former president donald trump summoned supporters to the capitol to threaten the certification of the election when he tweeted, big protest in d.c. on january 6th. be there. will be wild. his words. the committee says that tweelt was the siren call for extremist groups like the proud boys and the oath keepers whose top members have been charged by the justice department with seditious conspiracy for their

roles in the attack. an aide on the committee says it also will present evidence of ties between these groups and trump associates like roger stone and michael flynn. in terms of witnesses, a source close to the investigation says we'll hear from former oath keeper spokesperson jason van state en hoegt who has been critical of the group since walking away in 2017. a ohio man named stephen airs who pleaded guilty to storming the capitol will also testify. he posted an image to facebook days before the attack saying trump was, quote, calling on us to come back to washington on january 6th and then quoted the president's "be there, will be wild" tweets. we expect to see portions of pat cipollone's testimony who met with the committee last friday. joining us from the guardian hugo lowell. it's been a couple weeks since

the committee was in session. pick up where we left off and how does this hearing today agent the oath keepers, about the other groups that arranged to come to the capitol, brought there by president trump, how the committee sees this fitting into its larger story. >> so we left off with republicans seeking pardons, with john eastman seeking pardons and rudy giuliani seeking a pardon. now we're going to focus today at the hearing on this tweet that trump sent on december 19, committee members see this as a clarion call to the extremist groups that stormed the capitol and the far right groups that were organizing protesters surrounding january 6th. they're going to start first with the 18th of december meeting at the white house, according to my reporting. they're going to talk about how mike flynn, trump's former national security adviser, patrick burn, the former ceo of overstock, emily newman, this trump aide, and sidney powell all showed up at the oval office

uninvited and unannounced and tries to get trump to seize voting machines. they go to the residence. at some point a decision gets made, whether by trump or his aides we're not entirely clear. at 1:42 in the morning trump sends this tweet on the 19th of december saying big protests, it's going to be wild, see you on january 6th. all the machinery springs into action. cindy chapin changes the date to january 6th. the proud boys start prepping, group chats literally hours after trump sends that tweet. it sends us down the path toward january 6th. the committee is going to say trump was responsible because he sent that signal and green-lighted the operation. >> so hugo, steve bannon's contempt of congress trial will go forward as planned next monday.

a trump-appointed federal judge rejected bannon's request to delay the trial. the former trump advisor was indicted last year for ignoring a subpoena from the january 6th committee. the judge dismissed several motions from bannon's legal team leading to bannon's lawyer asking the judge, quote, what is the point of going to try if there are no defenses? the judge agreed and told bannon's team to consider that. meanwhile, the justice department says bannon's sudden wish to testify before the january 6th committee is nothing more than a last-ditch attempt to avoid accountability. over the weekend bannon's legal team said he would give testimony after former president trump waived executive privilege. but a new filing from the doj says there was never any privilege to begin with. a trump lawyer told the fbi the former president never actually invoked executive privilege over any particular information or materials.

the justice department also says bannon's willingness to comply now will not help him, writing, the criminal contempt statute is not intended to procure compliance. it's intended to punish past non-compliance. hugo, how much trouble is steve bannon in? >> judge nichols yesterday eviscerated his defenses. the only defenses he has left is he somehow misunderstood the deadlines in the subpoenas, misinformed about the deadlines in the subpoena and he might have interpreted the committee coming back to him after the deadline when they sent the letter saying we hope you still cooperate, somehow he was not in willful default or non-compliance of that subpoena. those are the only avenues left for him to argue. there's just nothing left for him. judge nichols stripped every other legal defense he had. of course, his legal lawyer was aghast. i think he made a very

interesting point, though -- judge nichols made an interesting point about the executive privilege. he said even if there was executive privilege concerns or arguments to be made, they wouldn't apply in bannon's case because the doj legal memos that his lawyers are citing don't apply to a private sit seen like steve bannon who was in no position to be ignoring a subpoena. i think bannon's next option is either to take his chances and go to trial and try to convince a jury and that when he loses, to go to the appellate court and try to overturn the compelling case law. >> "the guardian's" hugo lowell, thank you very much. coming up, we'll go live to the white house ahead of the president biden's trip to the middle east. how much will gas prices drive the prices overseas? a full preview is straight ahead on "morning joe." a full previewd a full previewd on "morning joe..

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a couple of polls on the state level. in ohio an online survey conducted by center street pac found democratic representative tim ryan with a wide lead over republican candidate j.d. vance, 49 to 40%. in pennsylvania, suffolk university poll from last month found democratic john fetterman with a lead over his republican opponent for u.s. senate mehmet oz, 46/37 there. those are one poll in each state. we have the one out of georgia last week where it showed raphael warnock beating herschel walker by ten points. you're seeing snapshots inside the states before some voters are starting to say this candidate, now that he's been nominated, he's too extreme

compared to what i'm seeing on the democratic side. >> no doubt about it. of course, "the washington post" has written about this, about republicans having concerns about their chances of retaking the senate amid what -- and this is what's important. what i've got to say, mika, is the most positive political climate for any party, republicans should be rolling up massive victories this fall. perhaps they will. i still think they're going to win in the house, but they're making it so much harder in the senate and making it so much harder in these governors erases that aren't gerrymandered, because that's, of course, only in the house and you see it. the further you get away from the gerrymandered house races, the harder it becomes for democrats in these swing areas where they should be rolling up huge numbers because joe biden is doing so poorly with voters in especially indepdent states. >> but is he really?

while democrats are nervous about the impact of inflation, rising crime and persistently high gas prices, republicans are worried about some of their candidates. with gop operatives growing increasingly nervous behind the scenes. one strategist who spoke to the paper on the condition of anonymity likened the situation to 2010 and 2012 when the party fell short of winning the senate majority because of undisciplined and polarizing candidates. one of those big concerns is over the republican senate nominee herschel walker in georgia. over the last several days, news reports have come out about three children he fathered but had not acknowledged publicly. he also continues to face scrutiny over his business dealings as well as past domestic violence accusations that surfaced before the primary. walker has denied any criminal wrongdoing. he's also making headlines this morning for comments he made during a recent campaign stop

regarding air pollution. the trump-endorsed republican spoke to a group of supporters in hall county georgia over the weekend and presented a unique argument for not enacting clean air laws. listen. >> if we don't control the air, our good air will float over to china and be bad air. when china gets our good air, their bad air got to move. so it moves over to our good airspace. now we've got to clean that up. >> you know, i've seen so many clips of herschel walker, gene, and i never know what he's saying. i always thought donald trump was impossible to interpret. you wrote a piece for "the post" titled "if herschel walker wins

in georgia, america will have lost its mind." you write, the flashing red lights and blaring sirens are not just about the former football star's myriad ofhypocr. that kind of stuff doesn't necessarily trouble gop voters in the least given their continued devotion to donald trump who counts walker as a longtime friend. it's walker's combination of utter ignorance and total confidence which challenges even that of the president. mind you, walker does challenge even trump's record of dubious achievements on the lies and hypocrisy score. i'm old enough to remember when one secret love child was enough to end the political career of john edwards who twice was a credible candidate for the democratic presidential candidate. three secret offspring haven't slowed walker down more than would-be tacklers did when he was barreling down the field for touchdowns at the university of

georgia. to an alarming degree, walker seems to believe he knows everything about everything when words suggest he knows nothing about everything at all. i've seen conservatives say that america is in a very, very dire state, especially the republican party when the party can nominate somebody like this to represent them in the senate. >> it's unbelievable, joe. it's absolutely unbelievable. this is a major state, this is georgia, in many ways ground zero for american politics these days. if republicans nominate a normal, sensible republican candidate for senate, they have a really, really good chance of taking that seat away from raphael warnock. but with herschel walker, i think they're going to lose that seat. the reason is that herschel

walker, it's scandal after nonsensical rambling about this or that, after questions about higgs business practices, questions about this, questions about that. as you said, when he talks, you have no idea what he's talking about. it's worse than trump. in many ways he's trumpier than trump. this is the problem for the republican party. they are nominating senate candidates who potentially cannot win. can mehmet oz beat john fetterman in pennsylvania? i don't think so. can j.d. vance really beat tim ryan? j.d. vance is a novice candidate. i don't think he's got the moves. we'll see. if it's a huge gop wave in the fall, then that's one thing. but elections are choices and

voters are going to have to make these choices, and they're not going to choose wackos to represent them. those independents in the middle trying to take an honest look at the candidates are going to say we cannot elect this republican because this is just not a senator. that's certainly the case in georgia. as far as where the democrats stand right now, i think your analogy of the college basketball team that shoots 14% and is one point ahead at half-time is about right. democrats and president biden have had crisis followed by catastrophe followed by calamity all along to this point and biden still beats trump in head-to-head match-ups. if you assume the next two years

can't get any worse in terms of circumstances, democrats are not looking that bad for '24 and not looking near as bad as many people thought they would for '22. coming up, even a little league game isn't spared from the threat of gun violence in america. shots rang out near a field in north carolina on sunday. we'll cover that story next on "morning joe." r that story nextn r that story nextn "morning joe." i tried everything with diet and exercise, and nothing worked. there was just kinda this stubborn area on my stomach. but coolsculpting worked for me! coolsculpting targets, freezes and eliminates me common side effects include temporary numbness, but coolsculpting worked for me! discomfort and swelling. you've come this far... coolsculpting takes you further. visit coolsculpting.com

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welcome back to "morning joe." now to a frightening scene at a little league game in nrk. kids, coaches and fans sent scrambling when gunshot rang out near the field. morgan chesky reports. >> reporter: this morning growing outrage for parents across the country over gun violence. from uvalde, texas, where controversy grow over video of the key moments during the school shooting, to the white house, where a parent confronted president biden.

parns confronting the violence that seems to be a part of american life. even during america's past time. this weekend gunfire at a little league baseball game in wilson, north carolina. >> get down! >> players and crotches caught on camera hitting the dirt. coaches seen shielding the kids with their own bodies. police confirmed three shots were fired but no arrests so far. >> i don't know how to explain that to my children. why somebody would act this way and why people would act this way. why there would be these continuous acts. sflfrnl these frightening moments reminiscent of a similar scene in south carolina. where dozens of gunshots and players and parents scrambling. and in this latest incident, the community still searching for an explanation. though thankfully no children were injured. in uvalde, parent are demanding

answers on the response and surveillance from inside of the school during the devastating attack that left 19 children and two teachers dead. nbc news has not viewed the video but according to the austin american statesman, it shows the shooter walking through the hallway and holding police back with gunfire. later according to the paper, footage shows officer massed in the hallway and increasingly armed with she'lls and high powered weapons, but not entering the classrooms. until they finally take the gunman down at the end of the 77-minute sequence. parents and the uvalde mayor and local representatives pushing for the video release. while the district attorney has resisted. it is part of uvalde parents long push for accountability in the seven weeks since the massacre. in the wake of uvalde and other mass shootings, congress did pass a gun control law with new restrictions on gun purchases. yesterday at the white house, the event to mark the bill, parental anger again boiling

over. >> sit down and hear what i have to say. >> the father of a parkland shooting victim interrupting the president to call for more action. saying that gun violence in america cannot be ignored. >> reporter: morgan chesky report for us there. the des pat hours, one hospital's fight to save a city on the pandemic front lines. that is just ahead on "morning joe." on "morning joe.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 9:00 a.m. on the east coast and 6:00 a.m. out west. look at live shot of los angeles. the sun is coming up. kind of a cloudy day. we have a lot to get to this hour. including the house select committee investigating the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol prepares for its seventh

hearing for just a few hours from now. today's focus is on the ties between donald trump, his allies, and extremist groups. also ahead, wildfires continue to threaten ancient sequoias in yosemite national park. we'll bring you the very latest on that. and what they're doing to try to preverve these massive trees. and the justice department is investigating the pga tour over potential anti-trust violations as it faces new competition from a saudi-backed tour. willie. >> and by the way, tiger woods just this morning had some pointed thoughts about that saudi-backed tour. well geet into that. but we start with what could be another explosive day of testimony on capitol hill. just about four hours from now, the january 6 house select committee will hold its 7th public hearing. the panel said today's hearing will show direct links between trump allies and the extremist groups who attacked the capitol.

there are new developments on whether steve bannon will testify before the committee. and nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker has the latest. >> reporter: in just hours, the committee's 7th hearing will butt the spotlight on members of extremist groups who stormed the capitol, aiming to show their ties to trump world and link the forrer president's words and their actions. a source familiar with the process telling nbc news, stephen ayres is skpeblted to test. last month he pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct and admitted he reposted mr. trump's december 19th tweet encouraging supporters to go to the capitol hill on the sixth saying it will be wild. no comment from his lawyer. another major focus, taped testimony from pat cipollone who answered questions for more than eight hours last week. committee member jamie rask inteling