and the idea that a year and a half after these events, they would not have talked to these witnesses, that even the fulton county district attorney is way ahead of them is, i think, cause for great concern. >> congressman adam schiff on the slow pace of the justice department's investigation into high-level figures connected to the january 6th attack on the capitol. now, there is more for the doj to consider, after the january 6th committee reports a possible case of witness tampering by donald trump. this morning, we are learning more about the person the committee says the former president tried to contact. plus, new concern this morning that the u.s. could be headed toward a recession after another dismal report on inflation. we'll discuss the pressure this puts on the fed to help get things under control. and how they do that. and president biden on the

move in the middle east this morning. he began a meeting with the prime minister of israel just a few moments ago. we're following that. a news conference is set to begin in about an hour. we'll be monitoring. of course, all of this happening ahead of tomorrow's unprecedented, direct flight to saudi arabia. good morning. a lot to cover this morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, july 14th. joe is off. later this hour, we'll speak with capitol police sergeant gonell, who was forced to retire after the injuries he sustained by the pro-trump mob on january 6th. he's testified before the committee. on tuesday, he embraced one of the rioters and accepted his apology. ahead this morning, former oath keeper spokesman jason van tatenhove, who testified before the committee on tuesday, will also be our guest. he broke from the group in 2017 and is now speaking out about why.

willie. a lot to get to this morning. let's begin with the latest on the january 6th investigation and that new revelation from the committee, that former president donald trump tried to make contact with a witness. a source telling nbc news the person is a member of the white house support staff. committee vice chair liz cheney said trump called the witness sometime after the bombshell june 28th testimony of former aide cassidy hutchinson. the person declined the call and told their attorney about it. the lawyer then alerted the committee, which, in turn, alerted the justice department. sources tell cnn the person was concerned about he or she is not someone who routinely communicated with former president trump. when asked to respond, trump's spokesperson pointed to a tweet that criticizing congresswoman cheney but doesn't answer the question. joining us now, capitol hill correspondent ali vitali and white house bureau chief at "politico" and the post host of

"way too early," jonathan lemire. we know white house staff is a pretty broad term. do we have a sense of who this person might be, how much access they had to what was going on around january 6th? >> willie, it is a broad term. our source was willing to go there with us, but the larger concern for the committee is the security piece of this. it's not the first time we've heard that either. you'll remember, part of the reason why they popped up that emergency hearing around cassidy hutchinson was, in part, because of concerns they had over her safety. now, again, this is a witness who we have not yet heard from publicly, that they are now trying to make a point of showing that it is a pattern of outreach from, in this case, the former president, allegedly, but other members of his orbit. they have said and been public about the fact that other members of trump's orbit have been in contact with other witnesses, specifically in the case of cassidy hutchinson. that's just one example the committee has shared publicly.

so this marks a pattern. but what we docategory, althoug broad, is a little less broad and allows us to be more focused and targeted in how we're thinking about who this witness could be and why the former president might want to be in touch with them. especially since pieces of cassidy hutchinson's testimony brought us inside the room at the white house, not just in key meetings with officials, but the aftermath of emotional outbursts from the former president, things he was doing, like throwing plates at the wall. we are in the room because of the committee's ability to get people to cooperate. this could be an example of the way the committee is in the room in a way we don't yet know of publicly, but they are planning to tease out, especially since this next hearing is going to be about those key 187 minutes that the capitol was under attack. they want to heavily juxtapose the chaos we all experienced through our television screens. many of our colleagues and these

lawmakers experienced themselves. what they want to know is juxtapose all that imagery, experience, and violence with the lack of activity and urgency to stop it within the trump white house. it would make sense it was someone who was close to the president in that way, potentially, who could lend credibility to people like cassidy hutchinson and others, who were in those corridors of the white house and can lend a little bit of insight into what was happening there that day. >> and that hearing ali is describing takes one week from tonight in primetime, which will be gripping to hear about the three hours, just over three hours. jonathan lemire, important detail in ali's reporting here is that this is a person who declined the call from president trump because he or she was not regularly in touch with him. this was not a buddy of donald trump's who are talking about their backswing or something. this was clearly something donald trump heard through the grapevine, through attorneys, other witnesses, perhaps, was going to testify, and got a call, brazenly, some might say

stupidly, because we'd just heard days before that that cassidy hutchinson had gotten some pressure and others had gotten pressure. liz cheney and others made a point that witness tampering wouldn't be tolerated. donald trump still picks up the phone. >> the guy can't stop committing crimes, willie. yeah, just in the face of those warnings, apparently, the former president picked up the phone anyway. we know that is what he does. he's on the phone constantly, calling allies, calling former aides, calling those close to him. but it is striking that this is someone who is not regularly on his call list. this person, he or she, a member of the support staff, does indeed have firsthand knowledge of what the president was up to on january 6th? that's a pretty small pool of people. the white house was largely hollowed out by then. a lot of staff had departed. it was two weeks before joe biden's inauguration. there had been a covid outbreak not long before that, and some people simply never came back.

they either left their jobs or were working remotely to finish out their two weeks. some were still in quarantine or sick themselves. so this is a person, if he or she has firsthand knowledge, it's a small list. it'll be potentially very gripping testimony. we know through media reports and conversations with lawmakers that the former president spent much of january 6th in a private dining room that's just off the oval office. accessible basically only to him. he installed a bank of televisions, and he'd often go in between meetings throughout his time there, either to actually eat or just to catch up on his favorite cable news shows. that's where he spent basically those entire three hours. his dereliction of duty. we know he watched the proceedings at the capitol, and as the rest of the nation was horrified by the volence we saw, he, heartened by it, cheered by it, rewinding to watch it again and again. no question, the committee has

been building to this moment. the finale all along was going to be what he was up to that day. it'll be a damning indictment on a president abandoning his duty. >> 100%. jonathan lemire, one more point on the witness tampering. it seems from the experience that joe and i have had, willie perhaps, as well, with donald trump, it fits a pattern. making a call, thinking you can try and talk someone into maybe, you know, trying to smooth something over. i remember time and time again, the man being shocked that a phone call wouldn't change the way we covered a story. he is extremely undisciplined and has this sort of sense of power of himself that he thinks he can push through whatever he wants done, even if it's not correct. it'll be very interesting to hear more about that phone call and who that witness is. next thursday's primetime hearing is the last one on the schedule, but the committee is not ruling out future hearings this summer.

they're wide open to more. the chairman pointed out to that surprise june 28th hearing with cassidy hutchinson, saying, quote, something could come up. another member of the committee said additional hearings would, quote, depend on where the evidence takes us. ali, i've heard that tons of evidence is still coming in, and that they're pouring through it all. is there a sense that the committee would have to, you know, have, at some point, a deadline to finish these hearings, as we get into the fall? also, as we get closer to the midterms. >> look, that's the question that i keep asking chairman thompson and other committee members. that's what we told me. when i said to him, "is this the last hearing next thursday in primetime?" he said probably, and that he hoped so, but he is open to the possibility of more. it's the same thing congressman jamie raskin told me when i asked him that question. it is because they've been operating on these two parallel tracks for the entire summer.

actively laying out their public investigation findings while also actively finding more things to publicly report. this is the balancing act that the committee has been doing all summer, and they are trying to leave themselves open so that they can tell the fullest version of this story, while also sticking to the timeline they laid out the beginning of the summer. these public hearings, you'll remember, we started the year thinking we were going to see them in march or april. then it became may or june. >> right. >> now, here we are, sitting in july, squarely in the middle of the committee's schedule. they have, though, also left open the possibility, and chairman thompson told me this after the last hearing, after they release the final report they continue to drive us to, they'll probably do a hearing around that. even if it is not another series of hearings, we will at least likely see one more hearing when they release their final report. again, this committee has really wanted to control its own narrative and be the one to lay out what they have found. it makes sense then that they

might want to do that around their final report. again, i did ask the chairman. i said, at what point do you put down the pen? none of then have a concise answer to that because information feels flowing. >> ali vitali, thank you very much. of course, we'll be watching this. we appreciate it. we have the latest now on soaring inflation as prices are rising at the fastest pace in 41 years. this as the consumer price index shows americans paid more last month for just about every necessity, from gas prices to rent. nbc news correspondent tom costello has the details. >> reporter: for anyone struggling with daily expenses, especially seniors on fixed incomes, the inflation report is not just an economic stat. it's very real. the highest inflation in 41 years. in del ray beach, florida, the cost of electricity to keep the a/c on is crushing 66-year-old

veronica. she received the bill, but she's a month behind. >> $592.11 for two months. >> reporter: $592. veronica has a disability and is raising a granddaughter after her son's untimely death. >> reporter: my social security is not getting higher, but my bills are getting higher and higher. >> reporter: too high. >> i didn't mean to do this. >> reporter: veronica among the tens of millions struggling with ballooning prices for just about everything. housing and shelter up 5.5% in one year. electricity up 13.5%. natural gas up almost 40%. breakfast, lunch, and dinner is more expensive, food up 10.5%. but this is where inflation is really biting. gasoline in june cost nearly 60% more than a year ago. oil up almost 100%. in maryland, alex neilson runs a

landscraping business with 45 employees. he says this summer, he's spending $3,000 more each week for fuel and oil. you've gone from $1,000 a week in fuel costs to $4,000? >> yeah, the price of mix of oil, chainsaw oil, 50/50 mix for the weedwhackers and the blowers, all gone up. the price of diesel, everything has gone up. >> reporter: forced to pass a fuel surcharge onto his customers. there is some good news. gas prices dropped 38 cents in a month. the hope? inflation may have peaked in june. >> there is no question that we still have work to do. >> the fed is going to say, oh, my goodness, we've got to stop this snowball from getting bigger and bigger and turning into an avalanche. >> nbc's tom costello reporting there. let's bring in cnbc's senior markets correspondent, dominic chu. dom, good morning. there seems to be no area of the economy that inflation has not touched. the white house pointing to gas prices ticking down for the last

month or so, but as tom just showed in his report, still 60% higher than last year. oil almost 100% higher than it was last year. so what is the fed's move here? >> the fed's move now is to raise rates, and it is a certainty, willie, that they will. it is going to happen at the meeting they're going to have later on this month. the question now is by how much. the issue for the baseline scenario on inflation is that the fed is going to continue to raise interest rates. and the consensus prior to yesterday, and i'll get to the reason why i mentioned yesterday, the consensus prior to yesterday was the fed would raise interest rates by another three-quarters of 1%, or 75 basis points. well, yesterday, the markets repriced everything because of comments from atlanta fed president bostick, who left open this idea, this notion that the 100 basis point, or one full percentage basis point rate

hike, was an option, still on the table. when the comments came out, the futures markets rejiggered everything, and now there is a 50/50 chance in the markets right now, that's what is being handicapped, of either a 75 basis point or three-quarters of a percentage point hike, or a one full percentage point hike. by the way, willie, mika, that's important. because the fed has not hiked interest rates by a full percentage point since going all the way back to the early 1990s when it started to first use interest rate policy on the overnight interest rate policy as a real way of influencing money in the marketplace. so this would be, hypothetically, a very significant step by the fed if it -- again, if it were to hike rates by a full percentage point. that's the reason why this is so important right now. but i will point out that many parts of the market are looking at inflation as possibly peaking. that narrative from the white house right now is key heading into this midterm season. by the way, you cannot juxtapose

all of this with any more clarity than what president biden is doing right now in the middle east, where many investors view this particular trip to saudi arabia specifically with the intention to try to lower gasoline and oil costs for many parts of the world, especially for americans, guys. >> yeah. so, jonathan lemire, when the president hops over to saudi arabia, and he's there tomorrow, clearly, he's going to have to at least display and show he is putting some pressure on the saudis to help with this problem. the fact of the matter is the fed is the big solution to this problem. the fed is the backstop to this. nothing the white house has tried in the last few months has done anything to bring inflation down. >> yeah. and the white house has pointed to the fed as being the lead on inflation, but they also recognize that they know how it works. if prices are up, the president is going to take at least some of the blame. we're seeing that in biden's poor poll numbers. it is important, the white house believes, for him to demonstrate that he is trying his best, with whatever limited tools he has.

one of which, of course, is pushing saudi arabia to get more oil in the market. dom, there has been skepticism about how much saudi arabia is actually able or willing to do, and what sort of impact it may still have. what is the sense from the experts you talk to as to what sort of relief we may get, if, let's say, in the weeks ahead, saudi arabia agrees to do more? >> so, i mean, saudi arabia does have some spare capacity, as do its partner countries in opec and some others. of course, the big variable for the last several months has been russia because russia is one of the biggest producers out there. there are sanctions in place, given the war in ukraine. the supply side is part of the discussion with regard to lowering oil prices. remember, jonathan, if we look at oil prices, futures contracts for u.s. benchmark oil, we're almost around $130 a barrel in the last couple months here. they've now fallen below $100. that is a big move lower.

a lot of that is not necessarily supply related, right? it is not saudi arabia possibly pumping more or the even pumping more. it is now the idea that there's an inflation narrative or story that is maybe shifting a little more toward a recessionary narrative. that is the demand side of things. if the economy really does start to slow down, not just here in america but around the world, as well, especially in places like europe, does that mean fuel demand will ultimately go lower as a result? if it does, oil prices have to come down. gasoline prices have to come down. if that's going to be the case, maybe this fixes itself. the issue becomes how you kind of put it in terms of a view for the american public. because if you are to bring down prices, that's good for everybody, for food, for fuel, for everything else. if you do so by stoking an economic recession, is the cure worse than the disease? that's the real story that many investors and traders are dealing with right now, trying

to figure out if a recession, which would bring down prices, is ultimately better than trying to have maybe the modest level of inflation that people are trying to work toward target wise right now. that's certainly what the fed is thinking about right now, guys. >> 9.1% inflation, the highest in more than 40 years. now, dom, you're talking about perhaps a one point hike in the interest rate, the highest in 30 years. dom chu, thanks so much for breaking it down for us. mika. >> we'll be coming back to the economy throughout the show. right now, let's talk about president biden's trip to the middle east. let's bring in -- it is related, of course -- columnist and associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius. david, i'd like to start with the latest news out of the trip, which is president biden's bilateral meeting with the prime minister of israel. they talked about the iranian threat. the president made some pretty clear comments on iran, making clear the deal should be back on and that there should not be a nuclear iran.

even force would be necessary. what do you make of the president's trip to israel and these comments on iran? >> mika, two basic points. i think biden is trying to reestablish the fundamental importance of the u.s./israel relationship. he has been a strong supporter of israel for decades. when he arrived, he said the relationship was bone deep, in his words, he meant it. he is arriving in israel at an interesting time of transition. israel is between elections. the prime minister he is meeting with, lapid, is a transitional figure. he's someone biden can talk easily with. netanyahu, the former and perhaps future prime minister, waits in the wings. that's a much more problematic relationship. biden said once, i may not agree with him about a damn thing, but

i love him. a classic biden comment. so israel is in this transitional status but, as ever, a key ally. u.s. and israel talked about major defense projects. i think on iran, the question is, what will the u.s. and israel do if a deal can't be reached? will they take action, military or other, to try to forestall the iranian nuclear program? those discussions could take place between the countries. i'm sure they've come up. >> here's the president. he did an interview with israeli tv channel, and he talked about force only as a very last resort. but his comments on iran were quite forceful. take a listen. >> you, in the past, said you'll do anything. and you say it again, you'll ensure iran would not acquire nuclear weapons. does that also mean, sir, you'd use force against iran? is that what that means, if

needed? >> as a last resort, yes. >> if you could, david, talk about what he is navigating here in terms of the relationship with israel, who he is meeting with, and then the next trip. which, in some circles, is quite controversial. >> so biden is trying to meet with the range of current and possible future israeli leaders to maintain this stability and continuity to the relationship. biden believes in it. interesting that this is a rare trip to the middle east, mika, in which a strong effort by the u.s. on palestinian peace issues simply isn't part of the trip. so often when presidents go, it is with a new palestinian peace plan. it's part of a broader diplomacy. not so here. biden is being very pragmatic. we knows there is not a chance for a breakthrough. i think the big news on this trip is going to be the saudi

arabia part of it. biden is going in a classic exercise of what the diplomats call real politic. i looked it up in the dictionary, mika, and the definition is it is policy that is premised on power, raw power and the needs of power, opposed to values and principles. that's what the president is doing. he thinks american power requires a relationship with saudi arabia, especially during the ukraine war, especially at a time when gas prices are so high, so he is going to do what's necessary to reestablish a reasonable relationship with saudi arabia. i don't think we'll get the news about oil and increased saudi oil production until the end of the trip. i think he wants bin salmon, the savvy prince, wants his handshake before he says anything about oil. what i hear is the saudis are likely to agree to a gradual expansion of oil production. they have easily an extra

million barrels a day they could produce, but i don't think they'll increase the production immediately. one important thing is they'll open the way for the united arab emirates to produce another 500,000 barrels a day, probably more quickly, which will immediately ease the markets some. oil prices are already coming down. i think the effect of this trip will lead to accelerate that downward movement in oil prices. but this is a meeting between a president who called saudi arabia and bin salman a pariah. he will be in the kingdom shaking hands. it'll be a moment that biden will have to take a deep breath, swallow some of his pride, and shake hands. >> totally agree that this will be something to watch, for sure, with all the different dynamics at play. the top of the hour, there is going to be a news conference with president biden and the israeli prime minister. david will be with us for that. david, thank you. still ahead on "morning

joe," republican senator lindsey graham launches a new effort to avoid that subpoena to testify before a special grand jury investigating election interference in georgia. we'll have the latest on that legal fight. plus, new reporting this morning about president trump's potential plans for 2024, and secret dinners with big donors. here we go. also ahead this morning, we'll be joined by one of the officers who defended the u.s. capitol on january 6th. sergeant gonell, who can no longer work because of his lingering injuries, will be our guest in a few minutes. we'll also talk to the former spokesman for the soex keepers, who appeared before the house select committee this week. you're watching "morn joe." we'll be right back. watchin

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more now on the new surveillance video obtained and released by a texas newspaper and tv station, showing the moments inside robb elementary school in uvalde, during the standoff with the gunman who still was shooting. some of the grieving families are angry the video was not shown to them first before it went public. nbc news correspondent sam brock has more. >> reporter: more fallout from the stunning video posted by the austin american statesman, blindsiding and devastating grieving families. >> reliving the day all over again, and i'm stick of it. i'm tired of it. so tired. >> there is a video now out there in the world floating around on the internet for the remainder of my days and my children's days, of their

sister's last moments. >> reporter: that video shows law enforcement trying to reach the classroom minutes after the massacre started, only to retreat after a barrage of bullets and not approach the classroom again for more than 40 minutes. that's when more shots ripped through the hallway. rodriguez's daughter was killed. she hasn't been able to bring herself to watch the video. >> they failed our community. they failed our kids. >> reporter: ultimately, a heavily armed border patrol team took down the gunman an excruciating hour and 14 minutes after police first arrived. when you hear the timeline, though you haven't seen it, what do you make of it? >> they're cowards. i understand you're being shot at. back away, regroup, what is plan b? >> furious, furious, furious, we are. >> reporter: also fueling the community's anger. >> that was the most chicken way to put this video out today. >> reporter: is the statesman's decision to public the video just days before the state was planning to release it to families and then the public. the paper writing, we have to

bear witness to history and transparency and unrelenting reporting is a way to bring change. >> who do you think you are, to release footage like that, of our children who can't even speak for themselves, but you want to go ahead and air their final moments to the entire world? >> to the person who leaked it, screw you. >> reporter: now a city in anger turning into action. >> i was in the robb school shootout. >> reporter: people of all ages marching. >> so no one has to go through what i went through. i felt sad because most of my friends passed away. >> reporter: this memorial, flowers replaced with stuffed animals, but children no longer there to hold them. >> sam brock from uvalde. mika, you can understand the

outrage of the families, having their children's final moments, or the hallway outside where they died, broadcast to the world. but, boy, you watch that again, and you say, what am i looking at? there are kids whose lives could be saved, and you have police officers milling around the hallway for an hour, again, in a way that violates every protocol that has been established in the united states about active shooters in the last 25 years, really since columbine. >> and it reveals something that might be important in the overall gun debate, just about where cops stand against these weapons of war. that young people can just walk into a store and walk out with weapons. buy two in the course of a month on their 18th birthday or whatever. listen, the parents, i mean, i remember in local news, there's so many faucets to these stories. you think, oh, it's good we're seeing the video, but you don't realize maybe the impact it has

on the very people that are impacted personally, that have had personal losses there. it is multi-faceted to say the least. the big story out of this are guns in america. senators and congressmen who are still against massive gun reform, and i mean anything. put it all on the table. they need to listen to the parents, see the video, and see how many mass shootings we have every day, every week across america. you know, like a lot of things during the trump presidency, it's obvious how it ends. there is going to be more, and more needs to be done, even if you don't like it. at this point, we have children getting shot up in schools. children are getting massacred. it's not one event, it is multiple, and there are more coming. so, for me, i just pull back to 20,000 feet as best i can and try and implore to leaders who

may not agree with, you know, most of what the democrats have to offer on this issue, americans want change. all americans want their children to be safe, and they don't want weapons of war being used by 18-year-olds coming into their schools and shooting up their kids. we can agree on this. we can agree this should never happen again. and we can also know the reality, it will. until we do more. >> it will and it has since that shooting in uvalde. mika, we heard just two days ago from senator john cornyn of texas. this is his home state, of course. robb elementary school shooting. we're done. he said, we are done, i worked with chris murphy. nothing on semiautomatic weapons or raising the age of purchase from 18 to 21. he says, we are done. coming up, one of the most

notable moments from tuesday's january 6th hearing was a capitol rioter apologizing to officers in the gallery. we'll hear more about that interaction from sergeant aquilino gonell, who listened to the apology. republicans appear to be warming up to a policy long pushed for by democrats. we'll explain when "morning joe" comes right back. just for kids. comes right back

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40 past the hour. a live look at the white house. a beautiful shot in washington, d.c., this morning. a lot going on. new this morning, "politico" reports former president donald trump has recently been holding a series of private dinners with some of his wealthiest and higher profile supporters, to quietly discuss plans for the 2024 election. discussions have included when and if he should make his expected comeback bid official. the dinners have taken place in

recent weeks, in both houston and nashville, with the latest happening last friday in las vegas. that's where "politico" reports billionaire, casino mogul, and long-time trump friend urged trump to launch another run for the white house and do it soon. the meals are hosted by trump's leadership pac, save america, and have included around 12 to 16 people per dinner. it's a big sign that he's looking at running again, which is the big question, about how this would work a second time around. joining us now, the co-founder of "axios," mike allen. mike, he is also expected to return to washington later this month for the first time since the end of his presidency. so that, combined with this "politico" report on the donor dinners, what do you make of it? >> mika, it's obvious he is planning to make a big move.

this is a scoop by "axios'" alayna treene. coming to washington on july 26th, the first time coming back since skipping president biden's inauguration. he'll be the keynoter at a group for some former administration officials, america first policy institute. mika, why this matters, even among trump supporters, washington is very different than when he left. a lot of people who worked in his administration are still here and, day by day, are seeing those revelations from the house 1/6 committee. but back in the swamp for an event where his supporters will be heralding him. it is invitation only, but it'll be livestreamed and open to the press. >> wow. jonathan lemire, you can take it to mike, but, i mean, most

discussions around the issue of trumpism, even during these january 6th hearings, and a certain section of americans who are stalwart trump supporters, that won't even listen to these hearings. i mean, donald trump still has a following, and many would argue that we're not done with trumpism at all, especially since so many republicans in washington are afraid to talk about him in a realistic manner. >> yeah, donald trump still has a significant following, even if polls suggest his popularity among republicans has declined slightly. he is still, by far, the loudest voice in the party. we are hearing some republican candidates eyeing 2024, a few of them might even be willing to take on trump, were he to run again. i don't think that list is going to be lengthy. he would be the ooverwhelming favorite for the nomination. mike allen, great scoop by axios, that trump is coming back to d.c. but he's been having these meetings elsewhere, talking to

donors, talking to influential party members and allies about a potential 2024 run. he hasn't committed to it yet, but he is sure leaning that way. give us the debate within the republican party as to when, if he were to do so, when he should announce. there are a lot of republicans who are very leerily, if trump jumps in ahead of the midterms, that could be an unwanted distraction for a party that seems poised to do well in november. >> oh, absolutely, jonathan. if you're a republican running for office, running for the house or senate, you want him to wait until midterms, but there is no sign of that. the signs, in fact, all of our reporting shows donald trump is likely to announce sooner rather than later. i can give you a rule of thumb. this is what we've long said, the worse donald trump's legal problems are, the more likely he is to announce. i think the worse the revelations out of the january 6th committee, the more traction, the more viewership, the revelation from the january

6th committee get, the sooner he's likely to announce. he sees it as cover. he sees it as a way to project himself. but those people who are running, and your question about the timing, if you're running for office and donald trump announces for president in 2024 in 2022, what are you going to be asked about any place you go? republicans want to talk about inflation, but they'll be talking about donald trump if he is announced. >> yeah. and, you know, it is interesting, i wonder if some of these folks are saying, could you hold off? >> they are, for sure. >> it might be helpful. >> no question. >> listen, mike, some republican lawmakers are taking a renewed interest in paid family leave. where does this come from? does it have anything to do with the roe decision? >> a massive change, mika, and you're exactly right. it is the post roe dynamics that are causing this.

republicans want to be seen as pro-family. they know they're being accused of caring about babies only before they're born, caring about mothers before birth, and so "axios" has picked up on a number of republican senators, telling sophia kai and emily peck, they want to look at family leave. it's long been a democratic priority. senator chuck grassley, senator marco rubio, big voices in these debate, all telling "axios" that they're looking at this. the way they would probably do it, mika, and, of course, this brings back a priority of ivanka trump, but the way they would do it is, rather than direct payments, an example would be marco rubio and the branding he has shows what they're thinking about. he calls it his pro-family framework. that's very much a post roe

reference. it'd take the child care tax credit and also make it applicable to people before they're born. mika, a p.s. to this, don't forget, paid family leave, one of the first elements to drop out of president biden's build back better. >> okay. well, we'll be following that. mike, as you know, a lot of politicians watch the show. business leaders and also up-and-comers. you are the co-author of "smart brevity: saying more with less." i love this book. i try to send along to people in "know your value," communicating effectively. give me 10 seconds on -- give me some brevity on "smart brevity." >> any communicator, whether you're just graduating, an intern, a mogul, we show the secret sauce of how to say more with less and be heard.

all we have is noise coming at us, right? you need to punch through. "smart brevity" shows what we've learned in 15 years of starting two media companies, about how to be heard. whether you are writing something, giving a presentation, whether you're zooming. >> i love it. congratulations on the book, "smart brevity." mike allen, thank you. up next, one of the january 6th witnesses joining us this morning. sergeant aquilino gonell is joining us. a piece he wrote is entitled "i was betrayed by president trump." we'll be right back. "i was betrayed by president b trump. trump. we'll be right back.

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continue as a police officer. he must leave policing for good and figure out the rest of his life. >> an emotional moment during tuesday's january 6th committee hearing, when congressman jamie raskin revealed the toll of the injuries inflicted upon u.s. capitol police sergeant aquilino gonell last year. after the hearing ended, witness steven ayers, who took part in the capitol attack, apologized to gonell and his fellow officers in attendance that day. sergeant gonell joins us today. we'll note, he is here in his own capacity and not speaking for the capitol police department. sergeant, thank you so much for taking some time with us. your piece in "the new york times" was extraordinary and important, because there has been so much whitewashing. entitled, "i was betrayed by president trump." so much whitewashing of what happened that day. people dismissing of how bad it really was, it was a regular tourist visit, all the things

we've heard for apologists for donald trump. you wrote in specific debate about what happened that day and the toll it took on you. i think it's important, and i apologize, i know it is painful, i think it is important to recount your experience. you're a combat veteran from iraq. you were on the front lines, trying to hold a tactical line. what was it like for you on january 6th? >> good morning. thanks for having me. on january 6th, it was horrible. i mean, you have a lot of people still downplaying that horrific day. if it wasn't horrible for them, it was horrible for myself and many of my colleagues, especially at the entrance on the west front. where i spent almost five hours fighting with the mob on and off. for some people, that day came and went. for me, to many this day, i'm

still dealing with those ramifications. you know, you try to adapt to your new normal, but it's hard. you know, when you have multiple number of rioters attacking you, taking turns, beating you up, and you have a lot of the people we protected on that day downplaying what happened. sometimes i run into them in the hallway, and they pretend not to see me. they avoid me or bolt to the right or the left or pretend to be doing something else. i'm not going to be confrontational. if you ask me in a year and a half since i was injured, do they know my injuries? only adam kinzinger and liz cheney have approached me from

the other side. i don't hold any grudges. i'm still going to be respectful to them. but they don't want to talk to me. i still am going to do my job, like i did on january 6th. for me -- in order for me to do my job, i don't need to express my opinion. i mean, if they want anymore confirmation of that, they can take a look at my injuries as proof that i could do my job and protech them without any political opinion expressed of my own. >> sergeant gonell, are you saying only adam kinzinger and liz cheney among republicans have checked in on you, seen how you were doing, maybe apologized for that day, they're the only two republicans? >> that is correct. >> disgraceful. >> cowards. >> sorry about that. >> that's coming from all the

people protected, whether elected officials or not. you know, it is disheartening. i'm not saying that i need that from them, but that shows a lot from the people who claim that they support the police and back the blue and are pro-law and order. you know, it's a -- it's the way they treat us. if you look at the bill yesterday they passed for helping the veterans, 88 of them voted against that particular bill, helping the veterans. i'm a veteran, too. then they go out and publicly say, "well, thank you for your service," this and this and that, and it's not true. i don't know why people keep believing that they are for something.

>> it's just pathetic. these are the same people who talk about law and order and, as you say, have a "back the blue" sticker on their car but won't back you at this pivotal moment in american history. what has it been like for you, sergeant gonell, sitting through the hearings? you were there and lived it, but you didn't know the inaction happening down the street at the oval office. president trump not only driving people to the capitol that day. we're told in testimony he wanted the magnetometers dropped so the mob could be armed as they approached the capitol. we've been told by liz cheney the president made no effort to call on the national guard, the military, the attorney general, as he watched it unfold from his dining room. what has it been like for you to sit in the room and hear about what was happening as you were defending the capitol and, in your words, being savagely beaten? >> to be honest, it's been hard. learning firsthand all of the information and hearing it from

people who were liking him, selected to work around him, who he called the best people in the white house. you know, these are people who were advising him otherwise not to do certain things or do certain things to help us. i know on january 6th, based on the evidence the committee presented, when he tweeted about mike pence, that's when the fiercest fighting began at the west front where i was. that's when mike fanone got dragged out in the crowd. myself got hurt on my shoulder and my arm and my feet. it's outstanding, that the lack of urgency and the oath

disregard he had to protect the capitol, protect the national security of this country. he had the next three people in line to the succession of the presidency, the vice president, the speaker of the house, and the senate pro tem, plus the nuclear football inside the building when the attack was happening. he didn't lift a finger to even try to influence those people, knowing he had influence over the mob. it was stated two days ago. this is the same person they want to put back into the presidency, knowing full well that he had been emboldened since the impeachments. if he gets away with getting back into politics and into the

oval office, probably going to be a lot worse, not only for our democracy but a lot of -- all the things, as well. >> sergeant, you immigrated to this country from the dominican republic, as you write in your piece, and that was a big win for our country, must say. you served the country in the united states army. you fought in iraq. then you joined the capitol police force where you served many years. then as congressman raskin described in the hearing two days ago, you sat down with your doctor who told you your injuries are too grave, the injuries you suffered on january 6th, for you to continue your work as a police officer. what was that moment like with your doctor? >> very emotional. not just on one time but two times. you know, i had been working for the capitol police for 16 years. i expected to be there for

another eight before my mandatory retirement. i took a test for the lieutenant test last -- couple of months ago. i did very well on the test, and i passed it. instead of planning a promotion to lieutenant, i have to plan my life outside police work. you know, i'll be detailing a lot of those things, my journey from coming to the united states, my service in an upcoming book i am writing. as of right now, i have it titled "american treason." hopefully people will read it because i will be detailing a lot of things that happened on january 6th and onward. you know, january 6th, for me, hasn't been easy. i'm still dealing with cases,

investigations, and also having to learn how to live with my new disabilities, not only for myself but my family, as well. >> so we are talking right now with former u.s. capitol police sergeant aquilino gonell. >> i'm still at the -- it takes time for the process to go through. >> good, okay. thank you for that. and as our conversation continues, i just want to tell our viewers, we are three minutes past the top of the hour. we're awaiting a joint news conference with president biden and the prime minister of israel. any moment now, we will be going to that when that happens. a lot happening in the middle east with the president's very big visit there, controversial to some. we'll be covering that, as well. but continuing our conversation,

sergeant, i'm kind of stuck on the fact that you revealed at the very top of the interview, when willie asked you, you know, who has talked to you, from republicans in congress and the senate, and you had two names. and i guess, what would you want to say to them if they wanted to listen to you? >> i don't know. they're the ones who have to live with themselves. i hear some people defending the political prisoners. to me, that tells me they consider me the bad guy of the whole story. and it's not only me who feels that way. i think there's a lot of disheartening by the way they are going about fighting for the

people who attacked the police officers at the capitol. continually defending the whole chaos, the insurrection, whatever they want to call it. it was bad, not only for myself or the other officers, for the country, for democracy, but, yet, those are the people that they are defending. the people who attacked the police officers in full uniform who were defending the capitol on that day. >> i think what is so frustrating about this is that this is so obvious. this is so obvious, what you were doing and what they were doing. i don't know why you can't get an apology or a thank you for your service from republicans. it's why i ask this question every day, who are these people? >> mika, to be honest, i'm not looking for an apology. just hold people accountable. >> i know. >> that's what i want. again, what i had done in the

past, i fulfilled my oath, both overseas and here in the united states. especially on january 6th. for the past 16 years, they all, all took the same oath. again, i'm not looking for an apology. >> yeah. >> what i find disfranchising and demoralizing is that we defended the capitol. capitol police defended the capitol, along with metropolitan police and, subsequently, the other law enforcement agencies that show up afterwards. including the national guard. those are the people who they should be fighting for, not the people who attacked the police officers. those people who attack us, they made the decision to attack the police officers, knowing we were doing our duty, knowing that we were keeping our responsibility

to defend the capitol. >> yeah. >> it's unheard of, that they're defending those people instead of the police officer who did -- because on january 6th, they were scared. the members and everybody inside the capitol was scared. i was scared, to be honest. guess what? i did my job. i risked my life. i put myself on the line to give them a chance to get to safety and continue doing their duty as elected officials. and i feel abandoned regarding that. they are regarding our sacrifices, especially like billy evans, jeff smith, and all the other officers who perished on that day, because we believed that they would do the right thing in the aftermath. they haven't. >> and to put a frame around

what you're saying, you're not looking for an apology, you're looking for accountability. and i understand that. willie geist, it's, i guess, for me, the feeling of abandonment this man is experiencing, there's such a lack of humanity at play here. >> yeah. >> among trump's followers. i include top-ranking republicans who won't speak out or reach out to someone like sergeant gonell and thank him for his service and validate what happened. i mean, this is not human. this is a lack of humanity that i'm shocked by. i really am. >> and sergeant aquilino said it so well, they are the ones who will have to look themselves in the mirror. they are the ones who have to figure out how to sleep at night, living with the fact that they were abject cowards and can't even reach out to tell him how grateful they are that he helped to save their lives, perhaps.

sergeant, i want to ask about a moment two days ago in the hearing room, after steven ayers, a man who attacked the capitol, one of the people who rushed in there past you and committed violence that day, approached you and your colleagues to offer apologies. mixed reaction. some of the officers wanted none of it. they didn't accept the apology. some were probably actively angry with him and maybe didn't even want to shake his hand. but you did accept that apology. why? >> to be honest, it caught me off guard. but, like i said to other news agencies, i'm not a vindictive person. i might be upset at you for a moment, and that's it. you know, i let it go. i could live with myself with the actions i took on january 6th. i know what i did was right. the first person he should have

apologized in that room, even when he was doing his testimony when he began, it should have been to aaron smith, who was -- erin smith, who was right next to me. she lost her husband because of what happened january 6th. mike fanone, he passed and almost got killed on that day. i almost got killed several times. he passed everybody else. i'm not saying that don doesn't deserve it. i'm not saying that. that i'm saying is the first person who he should have apologized in that room should have been erin smith. i don't know whether he did that for a photo-op or for seeking leniency against the judge. i did notice his attorney kind of, like, telling him to look one way or the other. that's up to him and his maker. i know i can live with myself with those decisions that i did.

at the end of the day, he had to answer to the judges in his criminal cases and to his maker when everything is said and done. >> well said. sergeant aquilino gonell, thank you so much for your service to the country. thank you for what you did that day. i'm so sorry that it's caused you so much pain and cost you your job in law enforcement. but you have done nothing but serve this country since the day you got here. just know that the vast majority of us are still very grateful, even if a few cowards won't say the same to you. thank you, sergeant, for being here today. we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. have a good day. >> thank you, sergeant. >> mika. we have a lot to cover. i want to continue this coverage. by the way, we have live pictures we're monitoring right now at the waldorf hotel, where president biden is expected to

host a conference with lapid at my moment. biden spoke about the importance of israel being integrated into the region. the prime minister said they discussed the threat from iran and the president's upcoming visit to saudi arabia. tomorrow, biden will be the first president to take a direct flight from israel to saudi arabia in an effort to build ties, even though the arab state does not recognize israel's existence. that is a very tricky situation to navigate. a lot of different issues at play. we'll be talking about those are jonathan lemire and david ignatius, who are still with us. and joining the conversation is msnbc contributor mike barnicle. mike, before we move on, and if we can sneak this in before the news conference begins, i would love to ask you for your thoughts on what we just heard from the capitol police sergeant, his experience, and

this feeling of aabandonment tht he still experiences today. >> to put it simple, mika, we listened to a man, sergeant gonell, 16 years in the capitol police force, iraqi war veteran, who did his duty all day long on that dangerous day of january 6th. >> yeah. >> he did his duty. he helped protect people who dropped their duty and are dropping their duty each and every day as we sit here. that's the vast majority of republican members of congress, republican members of the senate, who knew what happened, who saw what happened, who were threatened by what happened, and were saved only because of the actions and behavior of men like sergeant gonell. >> mike, thank you. we have a new development this morning with the january 6th investigation, and a revelation from the committee. former president donald trump tried to make contact with a

witness. a source tells nbc news the person is a member of the white house support staff. committee vice chair liz cheney said trump called the witness sometime after the bombshell june 28th testimony of former white house aide cassidy hutchinson. cheney said the person declined the call and told their attorney. the attorney then alerted the committee, which, in turn, alerted the justice department. sources tell cnn the person was concerned because they are not someone who routinely communicated with the former president. when asked to respond, trump's spokesperson pointed to a tweet criticizing congresswoman cheney. jonathan lemire, as we follow these hearings, what comes to mind when i hear about the potential witness tampering, sure looks and feels like witness tampering, and if you know donald trump, he doesn't have a lot of discipline.

he does think making phone calls can smooth things over and get people to do things they don't want to do, even lie for him. it fits a pattern. we don't know if that was the case, but it was so interesting that liz cheney made a point of announcing that at the end of the last hearing. sort of, i don't know, a tip to donald trump, back off, or maybe the justice department. >> it is only 7:15 a.m., but the statement, donald trump doesn't have a lot of discipline wins the understatement of the day award there. >> yeah. >> mika, you're right. this is what he does. he tries to pick up the phone and smooth things over. he tries to get people to get him out of trouble. he tries to ask people for favor. we know about that. and, you're right, i mean, congresswoman cheney made a big point a few hearings ago about preventing this from happening after cassidy hutchinson testified that she had received some potential witness intimidation. now, this person, this white house staff member, and we don't have an identity, didn't answer the phone, so it is not quite

clear they'd be able to prove what trump wanted there. unlikely a criminal charge will come from this, but it does speak to inappropriate interaction, if nothing else. now, chairman thompson suggested we won't be hearing from this person next thursday, but left the door open that he or she, this support staff member, could be a witness down the road. they've suggested there could be more hearings after next week's, which is, for now, the last one on the schedule. we're looking at this person who has firsthand knowledge of what happened january 6th, it's a short list. the white house was empty at that point. a lot of staff had left, and those that were there, who we heard from through accounts with lawmakers, they painted a picture of the president standing in the dining room off the oval office watching with glee as his supporters commit violence in his name, abandoning his duty to the lawmakers and his own vice president, whose life was in danger.

president biden is on the world stage working to reconnect america with the rest of the world, strengthen ties with strategic interests. we did receive the two-minute warning, that the bilateral news conference with israel's yair lapid, would start soon. they may just get two questions each. what are we expecting? >> so i think, mika, we're looking for biden to reaffirm the basics of the u.s./israel relationship. we're looking for him to reach out to lapid. i think lapid, certainly opposed to netanyahu, is somebody that biden could work more easily with. i think we'll see a reaffirmation of joint u.s./israeli concern about iran. we're in a moment now where the efforts to reach a nuclear agreement with iran by the united states simply aren't

making progress. the israelis are very weary of that agreement. i think we'll see u.s. and israel standing together, warning iran of the consequences of ignoring international opinion. finally i think there will be some discussion of efforts, perhaps humanitarian efforts to help the palestinians. as i said earlier in the show, this is a rare trip where an american president doesn't come baring a peace plan, a new proposal for dealing with that issue. this is really about the u.s./israeli relationship, our joint defense effort. they may discussion some of the extraordinary technology israel is working on to stop drones coming from iranian proxies, to stop other attacks. israelis are working on directive energy weapons involving lasers that are of great interest to u.s. defense planners. so i think in every way, mika, we'll see a reaffirmation of

what has been a very close relationship, to use biden's words, a bone deep relationship between the u.s. and israel. >> right. again, we're waiting for president biden to emerge here with the israeli prime minister for a joint news conference. we're going to be taking that live. again, david ignatius, when you talk about strengthening ties, there are stumbling blocks, not just with israel but also with his next trip, saudi arabia. i'd love for you to talk about that. and i wanted to note that in an interview earlier this morning with israeli reporter, president biden -- and i hadn't heard this so specifically -- criticized former president trump for his decisions on the iran deal, making it very clear how he felt about that, and what he wants to do moving forward. but, david, what are some of the stumbling blocks in these relationships with israel and also saudi arabia?

>> with israel, there has been, certainly since the days of prime minister netanyahu, a basic disagreement about the wisdom of making a deal with iran. that president obama, with joe biden's strong support, went ahead with that 2015 nuclear deal. president trump walked away from it, scuttled provisions. the problem is that that left iran unconstrained. iran was able to move forward aggressively toward having the material for several nuclear weapons. they've still got some time to actually make a bomb and figure out how to put it on a missile, but they are much closer to nuclear capability than they were before president trump came into office. that's something that worries u.s. defense planners,pentagon, truth, it worries israeli military officials. the opposition to this nuclear

deal in israel has always been more from the political side than from the military and security side. so i think we are reaching a crunch point. the iranians are getting so close to having nuclear capability, that it worries everybody in the region. the question i'm sure biden and yair lapid, the advisers to lapid, have been talking about, you know, in the most secret conversations is beginning to think, what do we do if iran keeps moving toward having nuclear weapons capability? >> jonathan lemire, we're awaiting the press conference and we might hop to it in a minute. i apologize if i interrupt you. there is a sense, even at the white house, that the visit is important, but it is a prelude in terms of what the world will be watching for the visit to saudi arabia coming up next. so how are white house advisers you've talked to, how is this west wing looking at this trip in total? >> yeah, it is a presidential

news conference tradition, the two-minute warning is rarely actually just two minutes. >> that's right. >> certainly, yes, strengthening ties with israel, the looming threat of iran, important for this president's agenda, but this is the opening act for the next stop on this trip. he is going to meet with some palestinian leaders later today, then, tomorrow, he goes to saudi arabia. becoming the first president to go to jetta, which is where the royal family camps during the summer months from riyadh because it is a little cooler there. there is a malott on the agenda. white house aides tell us they do not anticipate the president will publicly chastise the crown prince, bin salman, for the death of jamal khashoggi, "washington post" columnist. it is believed the crown prince ordered that assassination. but he will say so sternly behind closed doors. there won't be a likely one-on-one meeting, but there will be moments when the president and crown prince will be together with other officials, likely more than one. there is a gulf state summit also being held in jetta on

saturday. oil, a big topic of conversation, of course. there is a belief the saudis are going to increase their production, maybe not immediately, probably gradually over a few weeks. but that is a big part of this, as the u.s. tries to get fuel costs to decrease beyond what we're seeing, a little drop in gas prices the last couple of weeks. of course, the saudi/iran relationship will be front and center, as well. this is a moment that the president has, as we've reported, had private misgivings about this trip. he called saudi arabia a pariah, didn't want to make this trip. sometimes in international diplomacy, you have to make deals with the bad guys. that's what white house aides told us. they feel saudi arabia is too important of a strategic partner to abandon. hence the president's visit there coming up. >> the waldorf atoria in jerusalem, where we are waiting for president biden, along with the prime minister of israel. they will be holding a bilateral

news conference after a bilateral meeting this morning. the president will then be taking a historic, direct flight to saudi arabia next on his agenda. a lot of questions may be coming at these two leaders from different directions. david ignatius, i think about, also, elephant in the room for both these countries. there have been reporters murdered or killed or accidentally killed, depending on who you talk about. that is, you know, why these visits are complicated. if you could talk a little bit about how president biden plans to navigate that. >> well, we'll have to see whether president biden in any public way is going to affirm his concern about my colleague and friend jamal khashoggi, who

was murdered in istanbul in october 2018. that's still for us at the "washington post" and i hope for all americans is a matter of deep concern. there also was the death of the reporter, well-known in the arab world as a courageous reporter, killed at the, palestinians allege, israeli bullets. the u.s. is now examining the evidence and is said to have agreed that that's probably how the killing was done. we're waiting for some final dispositive judgment on that case. it is dangerous being a journalist in the middle east. it has been for many years. what's different about the case of jamal khashoggi is it appears, from all the evidence we have, from the judgments that our intelligence agencies made, that there was a deliberate

decision, sanctioned by the crown prince, the de facto ruler of saudi arabia, to send a team to istanbul to capture or kill this journalist, whose crime was to criticize the government in the "washington post." this wasn't an active threat to the regime. this was a journalist trying to tell the truth of a country he came from and loved. any assessment of bin salman, the crown prince, i think has to note he's made some positive changes in the kingdom. the kingdom is a freer place for women than it used to be. social morays have changed. but it is really crucial that president biden try to hold him accountable for what he did to an american journalist, my colleague, jamal khashoggi. >> yeah.

it'll be so interesting to see how he navigates that and also, obviously, addresses the strategic realities of the relationships between these countries. again, we're awaiting a news conference. president biden and the prime minister of israel any moment now. i think we'll take a quick break and dip back in live as soon as it starts. we had been given a two-minute warning. that two minutes turned into ten minutes, which is just fine. we'll get to it when it happens. also ahead on "morning joe," u.s. inflation surged to a new four-decade high last month. we'll go live to the white house for a look at how the administration is responding, and what it means for president biden as we head towards the midterms. plus, we'll be joined by one of the witnesses who appeared before the house select committee this week. former oath keepers spokesman, jason van tatenhove. also ahead this morning, search efforts are under way in virginia after severe flash

flooding left dozens of people unaccounted for. hundreds of homes damaged. some even washed away in heavy floodwaters. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. floodwaters. it's not just for . whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. and it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. you're watching "morning joe." isn't just for kids. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa

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hello! minions: the rise of gru, only in theaters. hey! 31 past the hour. we go straight to jerusalem, where president biden is having a news conference with prime minister lapid of israel. let's listen in. they will be taking questions from reporters. i believe two questions for each leader. >> the prime minister of the state of israel will now sign the jerusalem u.s./israel joint document, confirming the unbreakable bond between the united states of america and the state of israel, and paves the way to a future of increased partnership based on shared values and a shared vision.

[ applause ] >> all right. we're seeing the two leaders, expected to sign this joint do declaration, their commitment to prevent iran from obtaining nukes and continuing ties betweencountries. now, questions from the reporters. >> mr. president, in march 1965, on dr. martin luther king's famous march from selma to montgomery, walking beside him

in the front row was a jewish rabbi. when he returned home that day, rabbi hashel wrote in his diary, today, i felt my legs were praying. in the state of israel, mr. president, our legs pray every single day. nothing is in our lives taken for granted. my father was a jewish child in the budapest ghetto, hiding from those who tried to kill him. the fact that i am standing here today did not happen by itself. we learned the lessons, mr. president, at all times, israel must be strong, free, and safe. with the powerful army that can defend our citizens. be it in joshua crossing the

jordan river or dr. king crossing the river, the principle is the same. if you want your independence, your hands must defend you and legs must pray for you. march fearlessly toward the river. this past year with russia's unjustified invasion of ukraine, with the iranian nuclear threat becoming more dangerous, and with the threats of terrorism worldwide, we were all reminded of something. in order to protect freedom, sometimes force must be used. nobody wants that. but neither can we shy away from it. on the side of terror is people who don't hesitate against weakness, who do not play by the rules. those of us who are fortunate to be born free people sometimes do

not understand the intensity of the hatred behind the attack on democracy. what did we do to them? what make them crash planes into skyscrapers in new york and fire rockets at kindergartners? the answer is fear. what scares them the most is their citizens, their people can see us, can see our quality of life, the dynamism and creativity of our economy, the rights of women and the lgbtq community, the freedom of religion, freedom of speech. our way of life is what threatens them. it's what makes the iranian regime develop its nuclear program.

hezbollah aims missiles at us, and suicide bombings come. they want to destroy the only jewish state in the world. we will never let that happen. words will not stop them, mr. president. diplomacy will not stop them. the only thing that will stop iran is knowing that if they continue to develop their nuclear program, the free world will use force. the only way to stop them is to put a credible military threat on the table. you have said many times, mr. president, that big countries do not bluff. i completely agree. it should not be a bluff, but the real thing, the iranian regime must know that if they continue to deceive the world, they will pay a heavy price.

here in the middle east, we have an alternative now. it is growing and gaining power. we are creaing an alliance of moderate countries that believes in peace, that believes that our children deserve the opportunity to live a better life. from here, from jerusalem, the eternal capital of the state of israel. you will travel to saudi arabia. you will visit saudi arabia, important for israel and for the entire region, for our security and for the future and prosperity of the middle east. we send with you, the all the nations of the region, including, of course, the palestinians, a message of peace. israel wants peace and believes in peace. we will never yield an inch of our security. we are obligated to be cautious

at every step, but to any country, any nation that wants peace and normalization with us, we say -- shalom. welcome. mr. president, you will meet with the leaders of saudi arabia, qatar, kuwait, oman, and iraq. i would like you to pass them all a message from us. our hand is outstretched for peace. we are ready to share our technology and experience, ready for our people to meet and learn about one another, ready for our scientists to collaborate and our businesses to cooperate. the book of psalms says all of this in one verse. chapter 29 reads -- the lord

will give strength to his people. the lord will bless his people with peace. if we are strong, if we are determined, if the world understands we will not hesitate to defend ourselves and our values, peace can come. mr. president, our relationship runs deep. it crosses party lines. it connects not only our governments but both our peoples. this friendship is one of the cornerstones of israel's national security. it is moving, and it is certainly not taken for granted. throughout all your years in public service, you were one of the chief architects of this relationship. for that, you have the everlasting gratitude of the people of zion. thank you, mr. president.

>> thank you very much for the statement. i'm honored to be back here in the capital of israel. as i said yesterday, i've met with every prime minister since, and it's a pleasure to spend time with you today and get to know you better. mr. prime minister, a deep love and respect for israel has only taken a deeper hold on my heart, on my gut, since i first visited here back in 1973, as a young senator. i'm returning for my tenth visit as president this time, president of the united states, but i've never forgotten what the prime minister told me when i was a brand-new junior senator from the state of delaware. we just were weeks before the war, and she could see on my face that i was worried.

as we stood before the press, taking questions and pictures, she looked at me, and without pressuring, she said, "don't look so worried, senator. israel has a secret weapon." i looked at her as i turned my head, and i looked at her and she said, "we have nowhere else to go." i'll never forget what she told me, and it was nearly 50 years ago. 50 years ago, the threats then were real and the threats to israel remain real today. the scourge of anti-semitism still marching around the world. we must never forget the horrors which an unchecked hatred can lead. and that's why i immediately -- when i returned, i wanted to bear witness, to remember, to renew our vow of never, never again. at the same time, the israeli --

the israel of today is not the israel of 50 years ago. you've cultivated new resources, capabilities, new relationships, including a growing integration with neighbors in the region. you have new tools to keep israel strong and secure. you have an ironclad commitment from the united states of america to israel's security. an ironclad commitment. we'll make sure that israel can defend itself by itself. when i was vice president, under president obama, we passed a record-setting agreement for israel's security. $38 billion over a ten-year period. i was proud, last year we had an additional $1 million, to replenish the iron dome

supplies. one of the most assistance israel has ever received. yesterday, i viewed some of the israel's iron dome technology, as well as. >> reporter: promising new iron beam technology. a laser-enabled defense system. these technologies and advancements are critical. they're critical because every rocket that is intercepted is a potential life, perhaps more, that has been saved. as we move forward together, partners in both security and innovation, the united states and israel defense sectors will cooperate in new, high energy, laser weapons systems that can defend israeli lives, as well as the lives of american service members. israel and the united states also stand together to defend fundamental values and underwrite global security, prosperity, and freedom, not just for us but for many around the world.

putin's assault on ukraine is a challenge to the peace and stability everywhere in the world. putin's war must be a strategic failure, and the free world must sustain a resolve to help ukraine defend itself democracy. the united states will continue to support ukraine and the ukrainian people who have been devastated and displaced by the russian violence. today, you and i also discussed america's commitment to ensuring iran never obtains a nuclear weapon. this is vital security to both israel and the united states. and i would add, for the rest of the world, as well. i believe diplomacy is the best way to achieve this outcome, and we'll continue to work with israel to counter other threats from iran throughout the region, including terrorism, ballistic missile program that continues, and the proliferation of weapons for proxies like hezbollah. we will also continue building

on the abraham accords, which i strongly support because they deepen israel's integration into the broader region and establish lasting ties for business, cooperation, and tourism. we've just completed the summit among india, united states, and arab emirates, to deepen ties between the middle east and indo-pacific, to tackle global challenges, create partnerships, and regional integration is also the goal of the historic negev forum that took place in israel this past march. israel's integration in the region, israel's peace with its neighbors, these are essential goals. tomorrow, i'll be the first american president to fly from israel directly to jetta, saudi

arabia. that represents important progress. when i see the saudi leadership tomorrow, i'll be carrying a direct message, a message of peace and extraordinary opportunities of a more stable and integrated region could bring to the region and, quite frankly, the whole world. as we work together toward greater integration, i will also continue the work toward a lasting negotiated peace between the state of israel and the palestinian people. israel must remain an independent, democratic, jewish state, the ultimate guarantee and guarantor of security for the jewish people not only in israel but the entire world. i believe that to my core. the best way to achieve that remains the two-state solution for two people, both of them who have deep and ancient roots in this land, living side by side in peace and security.

both states fully respecting the equal rights of their citizens. both enjoying equal measures of freedom. and any more, it takes us further from that outcome, i believe, anything is detrimental to the long-term security of israel. prime minister lapid, the united states and israel are natural partners because we share the same values. our people share the same innovative spirit, the same determination, to preserve and persevere through every single challenge. that's why we're launching a new, high-level strategic dialogue on technology. that's going to help israel and the united states harness critical and emerging technologies and apply them to issues that matter the most to our future. thank you, mr. president, for welcoming me back, for fostering an enduring bond that link the people of israel to the united

states. that's what this visit is about. affirming those ties that stretch back to just 11 minutes, 11 minutes after israel declared statehood, when the united states became the first country in the world to recognize israel. i assure you, it will be the last country in the world ever to walk away from israel. ties that have grown deeper and broader with each passing year, and now they encompass a 21st century partnership, one grounded on ageless values and looking squarely at the future. we're here to stay, mr. president, mr. prime minister, like it or not. we're with you. there's no way out. i want to thank you very, very much for your hospitality, and i mean from the bottom of my heart, that your security, the security will determine the security for jewish people around the world.

it's critical, and we are in it with you. thank you. >> thank you very much, mr. president. before we move on to questions, there was a technical change on the stage. the both make comments as they came out. reaffirming the relationship between the u.s. and israel. the prime minister spoke first and president joe biden honored the president thanking him for the visit and the time together. now they are listening to

reporters questions.>> where do you find a certain stage where you will stay there is no more opportunities to revise the nuclear deal. what will happen afterwards. you will visit tomorrow jerusalem. does this represent a change in your views regarding the recommendation of jerusalem is the capital of israel. thank you. >> did to last question is no. with regard to your first question. we have laid out for the leadership of rain but we are willing to accept. we are waiting for their response. when that will, i'm not certain. we are not going to wait forever.>> you want to:the next

question?>> sure. question?>> sure. >> what would you say to saudi leaders specifically to the crown prince about the murder and other human rights practices. if i may prime minister repeat, how close are you to an agreement. she we expect that soon.>> with regards to the question you asked me. my views have made it positively clear. i have never been quiet about talking about human rights.

the reason i'm going to saudi arabia is to promote u.s. interest. promote u.s. interest in way i think we have an opportunity to reassert what i think we made a mistake of walking away from. our influence in the middle east. i'm going to meet with nine other heads of state. there are so many issues at stake. i want to make clear that we can continue to lead in a region and not create a vacuum. the vacuum is filled by china or russia. against the interest of israel and the united states. the purpose of the visit is to coordinate with the nine heads

of state. >> always bring up. my position has been so clear. if anyone does not understand it they have not around for a while.>> as i was saying in my speech, we're also promoting with every country in the region. since he is going to saudi arabia. there's going to be a finalization of the issue over there.>> thank you prime minister. i'm optimistic. next question.>> hello.

thank you for being in jerusalem. israelis have been waiting to hear developments on the visa waiver program. can you set a deadline as to which is really will be granted with the deadline to into the u.s. will you bring this up when you meet with them today. another question for our prime minister. we hear their technical difficulties. it is most about israel sharing its intel.>> with regard to question to me. we are working very hard to

eliminate the lack of precision many times for the visa program. it is my hope and expectation that in the next several months we will have it worked out. jumping on the subject. to be more responsible and help with the legislation. it is no secret we are doing our best. our american friends who work on the regional security architecture. i am not going to go into details on this but we are working with everyone weekend in order to promote regional security. especially facing iran's regime.

>> nadia. >> thank you mr. president. allow me to depression. if i may. you are visiting the middle east. when you meeting with other leaders. their position. their concern and feel about iran's nuclear program. tangibly, what are you offering them. if there is anything you offering them. to make them feel comfortable that the united states on the same page with them. if i may mr. prime minister.

what are the differences and similarities. if i may, i wanted you to confirm to us today. your position in supporting the two state solution. should to be elected as the next prime minister of israel.>> convincing them that we mean what we say. they have an opportunity to accept the agreement laid down. we will not allow them to acquire a nuclear weapon.>> we

have a open discussion about what is the best way to deal with them. i do not think there is a light between us. in terms of the means to an end. we cannot allow iran to become nuclear. the subject. we are discussing everything with our greatest ally which is united states. it is a guarantee for strong democratic state of israel with the jewish majority.>> thank you very much. this concludes the press conference. please remain seated until they have left the room.>> you have been watching a lateral news

conference. a lot of ground to cover. he came out really strongly. calling on the u.s. for help. in dealing with the iran nuclear threat. president joe biden really focused on the relationship between the two mac countries. announcing some joint partnerships and the fact they have fundamental values to protect. he also laid down to make it clear efforts. the war in ukraine must be a strategic failure. he also reaffirmed the commitment to ukraine along with the fact that iran should never have nukes. he reaffirmed that commitment on that issue. business conference ending with a lot of questions on his next trip to saudi arabia.

also we have with this arthur and political analyst. he is editor at large of the publication jewish current. one of the questions pertaining to the trip. it did bring up your colleague's name. president joe biden seemed pretty blunt and firm on both issues. >> president joe biden repeated . he pretty much said everybody knows my position. he has been public in condemning that murder. he said that would be a pariah. he implied he would repeat those views when he meets with the saudi leaders.

i did not hear anything new. yes, we know those are his views. he is going to see him anyway. he thinks it is important for u.s. security interest. on iran, i think made a strong set of statements. is here we are not going to wait forever. the uss proposals on the table. here's being pretty firm about. then he made a commitment it takes seriously. we will not allow iran to

obtain political course nuclear weapons. finally, it was interesting that he pressed the issue of ukraine. the u.s. foreign policy concerns. transitional prime minister. it gave some language. i wrote his book with russia's unjustified invasion of ukraine. they have taken a somewhat neutral position on this conflict. just step back a moment. it is really significant. some say he is about to fly directly from israel to jeddah.

that is something in the time i covered the middle east several decades ago, that would have been unthinkable. to even imagine that. we have entering the period. there is active normalization. let's not forget how much progress has been made. >> the prime minister turned directly to the president and said this. diplomacy will not stop them. the only thing that will stop them is knowing the free world will use force.>> we have clear evidence that the nuclear

agreement with israel opposed. they were that many officials have said it was disastrous. even israel's own intelligence. said that iran would complain. the tragedy is that the biden administration is not doing everything he can to revive that deal. the terrorist designation of the islamic revolutionary guard. we have many other sanctions on that same entity. because he will take this step, the possibility may be lost. we may be seeing the possibility of war that americans do not want. when they have not posed a direct threat to the united

states. this could be averted if he showed more political coverage.>> we just heard from the president. he said he always brings up human rights on the strips. he did not commit to actually saying it. i expect they're going to be a significant topic as well. what do you think's approach is going to be going in with the relation.>> one of the things. there is also talk the u.s. is going to start reselling offensive weapons to saudi arabia. after the utter devastation that they have left in yemen. what we know about how reckless it is. i cannot understand why the united states would again start reselling offensive weapons. many people wrote publicly that they were ashamed of the fact that the united states did this. why would we return to doing

that?>> our legal analyst. thank you very much for being on this morning as we are covering this news conference. as he works on securing alliances overseas. in washington, the secretary of defense welcomed the dutchmen of direct defense for her first visit to the pentagon. the two mac nations reaffirmed their commitment to help ukraine defend itself. the next step in posing russian aggression. they praised the death for sending military aid. for adding troops to nato's eastern flank. the netherlands defense minister. joins us now. thank you very much for coming on the show. we just heard president joe biden in the middle of his trip to the middle east reaffirming his commitment to ukraine saying it must be a strategic failure for him.

you announce to increase in defense spending up to 40 percent. i'm curious given the threats the netherlands in u.s. that we are facing around the world. building these strong ties together. where will you focus your spending? what will you be doing to increase defense spending given the threats we are facing right now.>> i'm glad we can increase our defense spending now. we are facing real threats. of course there are other threats in the world. we're going to increase our spending. by taking care of our servicemen and women. we have to attract more people.

secondly, but also investing in cognitive abilities. which is of course cyber threat. for that, we also look to the united states. our most important part. we have a very strong relationship with the united states. we already have the fighter jets very important to us. they would want to equip with long-range missile. these things i discussed yesterday with my colleagues. i think we have made good progress.>> i'm looking at your remarks. there is a high priority area. artillery and coastal defense. explain the investments there and why they are important.>> these two issues. as part of what to do to help

ukraine. we have since the beginning decided to drive them with weapons. of course, artillery. really high tech capabilities. we provide them. together with germany. long-range artillery. really important weapons. we really coordinate this effort with the united states. to make sure that we do provide ukraine with what they need. we have to make sure that his aggression is not rewarded. that they can continue to fight to them. they need our training. their military. they need us to be tough on russia and to be able to do that for a long period of time. we do not know when this war is going to end.

we have to think about scenarios.>> that is a important point. i guess some might describe the approach. sort of incrementalist. sort of dragging it out. running out the russians and hope they run out of steam. russia's a very large country with a leader who does not care about his people. are there any signs it is working?>> we know the progress the russian army is making is very slow. it is taking them a long time. i know that they can outnumber the ukrainians. at the same time, i do not think we are seeing the same resilience on the russian side. ukrainians military is extremely motivated. the determination is admirable.

they know they can count on us to provide them with really high tech and very precise weaponry. on the russian side they lack this kind of determination and motivation. as you said, he is not a democratic leader. he can do more or less whatever he wants. he seems pretty determined to just consider continue this war. i think by training them for a long time. providing them with very high tech equipment. that is the strategy we need to keep ukraine in place.>> netherlands defense minister. thank you again in the united states meeting with our secretary of defense to discuss helping ukraine. the increase in defense

spending. the netherlands very involved in supporting ukraine and democratic values. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we come back now to the investigation into the january 6 attack on the united states capital. the oath keepers known as the right wing extremist group. they were among the writers who stormed the capital during that insurrection. their leader has been indicted on conspiracy. a former group insider has become a key witness investigating the events of that day. here is what the former spokesman for the oath keepers told the committee. that the next election could be worse.>> i think we got

exceedingly lucky that more bloodshed did not happen. the potential has been there from the start. we got very lucky the loss of life. the potential was so much more. i we have to look at is the iconic images of that day. i do fear for this next election cycle. who knows what that may bring. if they're willing to try to instill. to encourage. to whip up a civil war amongst his followers using lies and deceit. regardless of the human impact. what else is he going to do.

all bets are off at that point. that is a scary notion. i have a granddaughter. i fear for the world they will inherit if we do not start holding these people to account.>> he joins us now. the author of the upcoming book. the perils of extremism. thanks for being with us this morning. we want to take a step back. you're qualified to give americans a look at a warning about these organizations. what is the organizing principle of the oath keepers. why was that appealing to you at one point?>> is stars at a national level. the founder and the president. he does have a board of

directors. then there are state chapters. broken down further into county chapters. it is all kind of one big umbrella that starts and ends.>> what was the appeal of the message. what is the grievance. why did they stormed the capital and why did they continued to this day to threaten various election officials. politicians and others.>> the message varies. it evolved over time. it is really driven by the conspiracy theorist of the day. back when they were first kind of starting out. it jumped off the tea party movement. we saw the conspiracy theories really drive some of the messages they were doing with the orders they would not follow. we have seen that as they radicalize. that they will not replaces.

we saw them hoarding people like richard spencer. then of course, with the bogus claims of the stolen election.>> they claim to be anti-tyranny. 1776. around january 6. what for you back then. what was going on in your life. what was the appeal of the message you just described.>> i think there is some confusion. i was employed. i was putting out that propaganda. i initially started interacting with the oath keepers. i was independent journalist. working for some online radio outlets. i got embedded during the bunny ranch standoff. then i was invited back. i drove down to bunny ranch

with stuart. i was invited back to the standoff. then, there was a pr statement put out that included my name. stuart was there with employment offer is the national media director. one of the associated editors on the website. it started as more of what you would determine educational outreach. they really claim to be not racist. we saw z found the membership base to grow. the donations to grow. the more important all right. and others. it was kind of a evolution. i walked away because of that radicalization. i had actually walked into a

conversation with some key core members and associates. the public grocery store. where they were discussing the holocaust and never happened. i went back onto my wife. my wife is medically disabled. we do not know what we were going to do with the loss of income. i just put in my resignation.>> between being a follower of the oath keepers. and employee of it. you've certainly heard some of the rhetoric. how did you rationalize working for that group.>> is started off being very antigovernment. i've always had a healthy distrust for government. it kind of started there. as things got more and more racist i just cannot do it.

>> let's talk about the links between organizations like that. former president trump. and the people around him. what you know from firsthand. because you were for time. what was the appeal there? was this a national fit.>> the air of legitimacy. they often times recording local politicians. up in the pacific northwest. they wanted to be seen as aligning with these politicians. it did give them a sense of legitimacy. that could have appealed to the base and eagles. i think trump kind of give them permission to continue doing what they're doing. i see it as much as they want to message that they are not a paramilitary group or not a

militia, they really are. i think stuart had always seen himself as being this clandestine paramilitary leader. having a sitting president directly or indirectly messaging your group and other groups like yours.>> we certainly know members were there on january 6. he has widely established or gave license to some of the hate crimes during his time in office. after what we saw, we know he is considering running again. people used to talk to in the world. would they support him again? >> i think so. that core base is going to be there. they are still drinking the kool-aid. i think absolutely. he will have support from those types of groups.>> there was a time for you to give an opening

statement. we want to read part of what you wrote. it is important for me to be here today. all americans need to pay attention to the genuine danger that extremist groups pose to us in our society. there were times where personally discounted the reach of this group. in the end, there were able to muster group of heavily armed members who have been trained in modern warfare techniques. including those that had explosives to storm the capital. we have been lucky in that we have not seen much more bloodshed. it is not a good strategy. to move forward. as we say goodbye here to you, how do you characterize the strengths of the oath keepers right now. stronger than before? or weakened by the prosecution and the events after.>> i think that remains to be seen.

we're kind of in a holding pattern. what the doj is doing. either way, there will be some questions. if they were able to hold them to account. the real question is who is going to rise up to fill that vacuum. will they be a leader. still was really good at telling that legal line. if we have a leader that is willing to lead the charge, that may change and make things even more dangerous than they already are.>> as we said earlier, here now. former spokesman for the oath keeper. jason, thank you. the upcoming book titled propaganda.>> this goes perfectly into our next guest. throughout the hearings we have are conservatives pushed back against former president donald trump. claims of a stolen election.

perhaps conservatives should be in quotes there. it includes longtime election lawyer who in the committee's second hearing was clear about the winner of the vote.>> the election was not close. in 2000 that was 537. in this election the most narrow margin was 10,000 and something. in arizona. you just do not make up those sorts of numbers. that is the trump campaign on sort of a process of bringing cases without the actual evidence that you have to have. is that it did not make its case.>> he is definitely a conservative. also with this, former judge of the united states court of appeals for the district of

columbia's circuit. they are two of the authors of a new conservative led report out today. debunking each and every legal claim of election fraud made. as it relates to the 2020 votes. thank you for being with us. i was talking about republicans who call themselves conservatives but still believe in the big lie. that is why you are here. i first want to ask you about this report that the two of you have put together. who is it for? been first.>> we wrote this report for conservatives. who may believe the allegations that elections are fraudulent and read. what we wanted to do was to gather a group of conservative political operatives to take a look at every single charge donald trump or his supporters filed in any of the six

battleground states. until we have looked at all 64 cases. and confirmed that he did not make his case.>> if you could explain. if you look at all of these cases. what is it about the way you conducted this investigation. that may help bring those who are still believe in this election was stolen. to reality. how do you think this is going to help?>> we started with the assumption we were not going to rely on anyone else's account of what took place. he made the serious charges of election fraud. out of respect for the office, without those claims deserve investigation and analysis. we were going to rely on anyone else. we did a deep dive ourselves. every claim of fraud or

regular. in all the battleground states. i think it is highly significant that three of the members of this group are former federal appeals court judges. these are two of the most highly respected jurists in american history. they joined in this process. we took a deep dive. a fresh look at all of the allegations. we came up with the conclusion that ben just mentioned. there is no evidence of fraud that would change the outcome in any single precinct. let alone the nation. our hope. hear this from fellow conservatives. when they hear this from people who hold the same values about limited government. judicial conservatism. that they will see what the

truth is. this is the thing i learned most from this process. other than the fact that it confirmed the election was lost and not stolen. what i learned most is we have a election administration system which we can be very proud. the battle days of stuffed ballots and dead people voting, those old days. they're not today. it held up well. in this instance. those who claim that there was fraud in this election. without any evidence are actually doing great damage.>> for sure. we just heard from a former

employee. the core base is still there. people and voters. hootie hope this report will reach. giving new light to help people. voters who have been. misled. down this path to believe our elections process is not secure. >> our hope is of that 30 percent of the american people that they do not believe the election was fair. our hope is when they hear from trusted conservatives. people who have given their lives to conservative movement. when they hear us say we have looked at this. we have done the work. we have taken a deep dive into all of this. we're telling you the election was not stolen.

it was lost. when you have 30 percent of the american people who do not have confidence in our election system, that is dangerous. he said recently. he is dumb or work on the polarization of america. recently he predicted a catastrophic failure of american democracy because he said we just do not know what happens when you drain all trust out of a democracy. we are hoping to tell people that we persuaded. there is a lot of reasons to trust in our democratic system. conservatives are known for preserving institutions. our hope is the conservatives will preserve the good institution we have right now of free fair and honest election. not tear them down with

baseless claims that have no evidence.>> thank you both for taking the time to do this. it is painstaking work and crucial to our understanding of what happened. there is absolutely no evidence of fraud in the 2020 presidential election. let alone the nation as a whole. there was no fraud that change the outcome. even a single precinct in the united states. the follow along question. what about next time around. there's a lot of people running for office is. there is election officials who share that view that the election was stolen. they still say it. do you worry next time around they will not be the guard rails. and people like him to stop the election from being overturned.>> that is a really important point. the answer is yes of course you had to be concerned about it

because of what we just saw. i think we were encouraged by the testimony on tuesday. a witness as well who said if i had known there was no evidence for the charges that he was making, i never would've been at the capital. we hope in this message by conservatives to conservatives that those voters will understand it. the cure for this ailment is the ballot box. it is not reports or rhetoric. it is actually going out and voting. but yes it is a concern because the people who are running for office. who said they will not certify results as well as voters who do not accept the results. a democracy where 30 percent of the population does not believe in it election results is not

sustainable in the long run. of course that will impact republicans if they take power in contested elections. something that my fellow republicans seem to not be fully aware of now.>> we are hoping that conservatives will run campaigns on positive messages. preserving our institutions. religious liberty. let's run on those issues. instead of looking to the past and making claims that just are not true. that undermine confidence.>> really quickly working people access this report?>> lost not stolen. we hope they will. it does go into great detail and comes to the conclusion

that donald trump did not have grounds to say that the elections were fraudulent and rig. thank you both very much. thank you for doing this. still ahead. inflation just hit a 40 year high. meaning we are paying more for just about everything. gas prices continue to drop. we will look at whether or not it is a sign. the secret dinners with big- time donors. the first trip back to washington since he lost the presidency. we will be right back. will be.

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political report former president donald trump has recently been holding a series of private dinners with some of his wealthiest and highest profile supporters to quietly discuss plans for the 2024 election. discussions have included when and if he should make is expected come back beneficial. the dinners have taken place in recent weeks. in houston and nashville with the latest happening last friday in las vegas. that is where longtime trump friend of hers the former president to launch another run for the white house and do it soon. the meals were hosted by's leadership pack. have included around 12 through 16 people for dinner. it is a big sign he is looking at running again which is the

big question. about how this would work a second time around. joining is now, the cofounder. is also expected to return to washington. that combined with this political report on the donor dinners. what do you make of it?>> obviously he is planning to make a big move. coming up two weeks from now. for the first time since he took off on inauguration day. he will be back in dc. at a conference for some of his former administration officials. why this matters. washington is very different when he left. a lot of people are still here.

they are saying those revelations. back in the swamp. for a event where his supporters will be. it is invitation only. it will be live streamed and open to the press.>> you can take it to mike. most discussions around the issue even during the january c- series. the certain sections of americans who are trump supporters that will not even listen to these hearings. he still has the following. many would argue that we are not done at all. especially since so many republicans in washington are afraid. a realistic manner.>> he still has a significant following. even they suggest the popularity has declined

slightly. he is still by far the loudest voice in the party. we are hanging some republican candidates. a few of them may even be willing to take on trump or run again. he would be the overwhelming favorite for the nomination. they said trumps flying back to dc but has been having these meetings elsewhere. talking to donors and influential party members about a potential run. there is a lot republicans were very leery if he jumps in ahead of the midterm be one distraction.>> absolutely. there is no sign of that.

all of our shows he likely denies sooner than later. the worst his legal problems are. the more likely he is to announce. the worse the revelations. the more traction. the more viewership. the sooner his likely to announce. he sees it as a way to project himself. your question about the timing. if you're running for office. and he announces for president. what are you going to be asked about. any place you go. they will want to talk about inflation. if he is announce. >> coming up, he is said to meet with saudis arabia crown prince. taking a deep breath and

swallow his pride. a preview of that meeting is straight ahead. meeting is straight ahead.

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grabbing. all the secret meetings on the golf course that i was not invited to. so how about giving the little things to the women like me who built the ladder that you use to get up onto your soapbox. you stop complaining and just man up. that is right. you hurt me.>> on hbo's heat. discussing the hard work that women often put in just to get as far as their male colleagues. our next guest has a broadway comedy that showcases the very point. joining is now. the tony award winner and saturday night live alumni. the tony award nominee. they costarred in the broadway comedy. behind every great are seven

women tried to keep them alive. it is a bad farce about seven female staffers. after the commander-in-chief use of a certain four letter word. it is august 14th and they've already had some very high-profile audience members including hillary clinton and others. i love it. this is also the first farce in broadway history starring all women, written and directed by all women. so kudos to you all. rachel, i'll start with you. you are stephanie. and tell me about stephanie and what compelled you to do this and what do you hope audience members will come away with. >> well stephanie is -- stephanie is this white house secretary and she starts out

very meek and mild and trying to get the job done right and then through a series of events she ends up ingesting some hallucinogenics and in the second act i'm off the rails. what appeared was cast. suzanne stoneman the director and just it is a big broad comedy but it also has little messages woven throughout but i get to be a big clown so it is a lot of fun. >> and julia white, you are harriet. tell us about harriet and this looks really fun by the way. >> yeah. it is really, really fun. and harriet is the chief of staff. and normally in a farce, the role that is the engine of the farce who kind of gets it started and is definitely a guy and it would be zero moftel or

nathan lane or gene wilder and i get to be that. i get to be that loud and that crazy. and it is just a tremendous cast. it's terrifically fun i. it is definitely the funniest thing running right now. and we specifically didn't think it was political when we started it. i was like this is just funny. it is a farce and set in the white house but it is a fictional white house. but the way that things have unfolded, mika, it has become this place where people are coming and expressing this kind of solidarity in their outrage and somehow through laughter, it is actually kind of cathartic. and i'm really, really happy that we're doing it. and i wish we could do it longer. but we've got to stop on august 14th. >> oh, my gosh.

yeah, we got to get people in there. and rachel, she was talking, julia about this being cathartic. i was just thinking, probably sitting in the audience, as a woman, it would feel so validating. >> yeah. well when we started in april, with previewed, even then at first people were laughing because you could feel the pandemic is over and i'm so happy to be out. and that type of laugh. but then as things started unfolding politically and what it is like to be a woman right now in this country, the whole thing kind of morphed and it feels like this lady power. >> oh, my god. i love it. >> guys are loving it too. >> there is a line in the play where vanessa williams who plays the first lady said that someone asked her why aren't you president. and she said that is the eternal question, century it. and the audience in the middle of the show rose to her feet and turned towards hillary and applauded her for --

>> oh, my god, that is amazing. >> for over a minute. which is a long time in the theater. >> that is amazing. >> also the potus that is referred to this, you never see the president. it is an amalgamation of a bunch of past presidents. so it doesn't really -- some people are like is this trump. it is not trump. it is not red or blue. it is just women trying to make it in this political atmosphere. >> and like trying to -- harriet is waiting her turn to get to be the boss but meanwhile doing all of the work to keep this guy in power who really doesn't deserve it any more. >> and you both were nominated for tonys. congratulations for your performance. and rachel, this is your first time in broadway. you stepped on stage the first time and they nominate you for a tony. it is so cool. what was that like. >> oh, my gosh, we had only been

open for ten days or something so i was already like, i'm on broadway. i had those moments, walking down the streets of new york city, i've achieved my dream, simon broadway and then boom, double down on the dream. that wasn't even inform the list. but that was really amazing and julie was as well. so we got to go to the tony's. >> we got all dressed up and then we didn't win. >> we didn't win. but in our hearts we won something. >> i don't know what that was about. >> as someone who covered a couple of white house's now, the farce element sounds more like the trump one than the current one but let's end on a serious note. there is a lot of political narratives in the real world and it is pretty clear the supreme court's decision about roe v. wade has put a spotlight on women in in country. are you finding it was resonating with the audience? >> terrifically so. there was also a moment in the play where a young character

that you would not think does say something about safe reproductive health care as a basic human right. it was initially a throwaway. but now after roe went down, people stood up. it reminds me of you showing selena myers, that character on veep. she said if men could get pregnant you could get an abortion at an atm so -- the arts does help us have a place to express these things. and we'll be okay. we just got to keep fighting. >> we sure do. julie white and rachel dratch. thank you very much. and thank you for the laughs. catch "potus", on broadway now through august 14th, absolutely worth getting in there. congratulations to both of you. coming up our next guests has met with saudi arabia crown prince and said he's a force to

be reckoned with. retired admiral james stavridis previews biden's high-stakes sitdown just ahead on "morning joe." sitdown just ahead on "morning [acoustic soul music throughout] ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] joe. discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish]

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live shot of los angeles this morning. welcome back to "morning joe." it is 9:00 a.m. in the east, 6:00 a.m. out west. we've got a lot to get to this hour. president biden is on day two of his trip to the middle east. meeting with israeli leader this is morning. in an attempt to calm fears of a possible nuclear deal with iran. it comes in advance of his controversial stop in saudi arabia. we'll bring you the very latest. also ahead, the latest on the war in ukraine. our weapons supplied from the west helping. we'll be joined by james stavridis to break down the