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jansen. there is news that donald trump has decided whether to run for president. he still mulling whether to announce it before or after the midterms? if his answer is yes -- he did not say that out right. he's merely meant to distract as to what is the hottest topic in washington. who was he trying to get in touch with when he reached out to one of the january 6th witnesses. what was he planning to tell them? what they call mark to evidence as witness tampering? it's been confirmed it was a white horse support staff member. white horse support staff according to cnn, it was not someone routinely in touch with the former president. the justice department is not in possession of that information.

one of several threads they are following. the fact that they are coming to the committee for information, has led to a lot of frustration. even from committee members themselves. two they have got potent tools to get information. they can enforce their own subpoenas in a way we can. the idea that a year and a half after these events, they would not have talked to these witnesses. even the fulton county district attorney is way ahead of them. i think that is cause for great concern. >> on wednesday, betty thompson set the doj asked for the evidence that created a plot to create state pro electors in battleground states. it's the only topic that they have raised to the committee. then this revelation from the police officer, the man beaten

so bad by the protesters. he put his life on the line to protect. they seem now wanting nothing to do with them. >> sometimes i run into them in the hallway, they pretend not to see me. they avoid me or bolt to the right, the left, pretend to be doing something else. in a year and a half since i was injured, they know my injuries, only adam kissinger and liz cheney have approached me. i'm not saying that i need that from them, but that shows a lot from the people who claim that they support the police. that are pro-law and order. >> lots to talk about.

journey me, ellie. mary mccord served in the justice department. clint watts worked as a consultant for the anti- terrorism division. he's at the foreign policy resurgence and nbc analyst. i want to start with the phone call. we don't know who the president called. just support staff. how broad of a category is that, and how much access can a person like that have to have heard or seen something that the midi thinks would be critical to their investigation? >> when you consider the way the committee put this out, it's right it the end of their hearing. what we expect to be the final hearing on prime time, next thursday. they will be focused on the minute by minute accounting of january 6th, sl.

the minutes that the capitol was under attack and what was happening in the white house. it is very likely that this is someone who could shed a lot of light on what was happening inside the white house at that time. if they were support staff, they would've had a lot of access to the former president. potentially being able to corroborate. we know for example that the former president spent january 6th watching what was happening on capitol hill from television that he had installed in one of the dining areas in the white house. that could be a point that this potential staffer could've been. this is not someone who was an appointed senior staffer. get away from that speculation and turn our focus to someone who is perhaps someone like cassidy hutchinson. not someone who was flashy in

these meetings, and said, someone who was more there against the wall, taking in the information and details as they came out them. someone who could corroborate some of the things we have already heard. for the committee, is the information that this person could potentially provide. also the fact that they figure it's the pattern of potential witness tampering. from the president himself and others in his orbit. >> mary, if it's reports that this is someone the president was not someone he was normally in touch with, how important is that piece of information? >> obviously, it will be important for the investigation to proceed to figure out if this person had access to the inter-workings of the white house? or conversations the advisors may have had outside of president trumps presence that would have described other interactions with trump, etc.?

i would say sometimes people who are not themselves involved in the conversations, that are more bystanders, overhearing things, and some ways may have a better memory about what they are observing or hearing, because they didn't have a personal stake. they want actually involved in the conversation. they were just taking it all in. we don't yet know who it is should we also don't know yet, what was trump attempting to do with this phone call. i think we can't get ahead of ourselves yet. >> let's talk about something else. the doj is looking into, as well is this call, the scheme for electors. the only specific topic they broached with the committee. why do you think this would be? >> what is the only one they broached? >> yes. >> a month or so ago, they were

also seeking information from the committee. we also know from a month or mow ago, made it clear that they were looking into this, and investigating the fraudulent scheme. that shows that the investigation is continuing. i think it's extremely important. not only did the fraudulent electors themselves break laws, but if it shows that someone was conspiring with them, that's important, too. >> clint, you know how investigations work. they can be slow. when you hear people like adam schiff criticized the doj, we've been hearing for a while frustration from a number of people, do you share the concern? >> yes. what i find interesting, they have gone from the bottom up approach. it could be the sheer volume of

cases that they had to pursue. after you had that many people enter the capitol, we are talking in the hundreds, probably approaching the thousands at this point. maybe there are overwhelmed and have not moved to? you do see them pleating out certain cases. you have to wonder, of the cases are they trying to build a broader conspiracy case? for that, you have to flip people that were possibly charged. you have to get phone records and follow-up. while the congressman is right, with the fbi, most cases take many years to lead to prosecution. it is not unreasonable it could take a lot longer. the last point, the investigative style. most of this has been bottom- up. everything is narrowing down to a very central cast of characters. almost like the dirty dozen of the case that other central people that were either corded

meeting, communicating, bringing everybody to the capitol that day. or the stop the steel rally -- i would think they would start moving in a much aggressive way if they were going to put charges against the president. >> let me ask you about the extremist element. we heard from then on morning joe. he talked about the connections that still exist between >> reporter:, at least the trumpworld, and his former organization, the oath keepers. let's take a listen. >> trump kind of give them permission to continue doing what they were doing. >> we know that the president is planning to run again. the oath keepers would support him again in 2024? >> i think so? they are still drinking the

kool-aid. i am thinking that absolutely he will have support from such groups. >> the question, what kind of role could these groups play in 2024? >> that's where i am most scared. not just for 2024 and 2022. when you look across the elector landscape, elections and what you are starting to see, almost 2 or three different scenarios. intimidation of voters and polling places. that should be a much bigger concern. second, the guard situation were candidates are actively working with these election deniers in the militia elements. there are really trying to push their way forward. the last part, those that are running, that her actual extremists that are running, they are going to try to push in 2022 and into 2024, to establish themselves. we are talking about

international histories and, extremism, this is one that we will get a preview of in 2024. we will get it in the local and state races in 2020. >> speaking of 2024, i want to ask about magazine article. donald trump does not come out indirectly say, i am running. he says, he is getting advice -- the article says, he's getting advice related to why he might consider running. let me read from that. a lot of people are saying that you have to announce your protected, meaning from the january 6th revelations. it's a witchhunt. they are trying to do this to you again. the author writes, quote, trump is aware prosecution is not among his reasons to not run for president. he is not at risk for being

prosecuted. but, could the fact that he's worried about this, or maybe that he wants to distract from all of the negative attention that is getting. the concerns that the republicans. he's losing support. >> we watched the investigations from the probe to the impeachment trials against them. in order to boost his own campaign, making him the murder of the campaign trail. this would allow him to do that again. we are talking about 2024, donald trump has flirted with this for months, for the last year on the campaign trail. he is saying that he made his decision, it's a matter of whether he announced his before or after the midterms. what is the attempt to announce before? he believes he could go around the country, like he's going to do in arizona, the secretary of

state candidate, to be able to essentially force the hand of the republican nominees in these various states to stand beside him. if he's the candidate in 2024, will talk about the u.s. senate races, he will be able to stand by them and say that these guys will be allies when i win the white house back. we last talked when i was in nevada, last week, i had a conversation with the nevada chairman and i said, do you really want donald trump to be the guy that you are standing by during the house races? he said, look, we galvanize over the last four years. voters from the republican party that we would not have had otherwise. that's what donald trump and his lic as well. they believe they were successful to bring out in 2020 and the 2018 midterms, millions of republican voters that were not there before. they may not want donald trump, he's of the belief that he

aided the republican party. >> you will never convince him otherwise. thank you. elliott, we will talk to you later on this hour. >> president biden on defense. over his plans to meet with saudi crown prince. we will be joined on that. the goals for the presidents middle east trip. plus, still on answered questions for the families from the uvalde,texas shooting. the uvalde,texas shooting. denied. how do we feel about getting a quote to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? should flo stop asking the same question every time? -approved! -[ altered voice ] denied!

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president biden is settling down some major policy markers at his first presidential trip to the middle east. he reaffirmed that iran must never get a weapon. he said everything must be done to make sure that putin's war in ukraine is a failure. he is also pushing back on criticism. >> i always bring up human race. my position on jamal khashoggi has been so clear. if anyone does not understand it, i'm meeting with nine other heads of state. it just happens to be in saudi arabia.

there are so many issues at stake. >> want to and delaware senator. we just heard him say his record on human rights is clear. what do you say to a voter who argues that meeting with and maybe making a deal with jamal khashoggi's killer, isn't what they thought he meant one on the campaign trail when he said, he would make saudi arabia a pariah. >> i have followed and what was former senator biden's long record in the senate of advocating for human rights as a court interest in american foreign policy and how we conduct ourselves at home. one of the things that has changed since the campaign, has changed in recent much, russia

has daily monstrosities against thousands of ukraine civilians. another thing that has changed, it strains the pressure on key allies and partners because the oil prices continue to rise. i believe he made a decision to go to the gulf to meet with nine leaders to sit down to have a conversation about security, iran. israel. the region. yes, human rights. jamal khashoggi's widow had a meeting at the white house with a senior official that reassured her that president biden would raise the issue of her late husband's brutal murder. i am confident that president biden knows fully his responsibility as the american president to ensure our security and values.

there are so many urgent issues in the middle east that need to be addressed. i'm glad he's there and i'm glad a president with decades of experience with human rights and foreign policy interest is at the table. >> to your point and the presidents point on gas prices, realistically, what could he do to ease not just prices at the pump, potentially because of his role with inflation overall, inflation? >> the prices of the pump in my home state of delaware, has come down week after week. >> i think about $1.50 more than it was this time last year. continue, senator. >> figure. i think there are only three countries that i'm aware of, that have significant untapped reserves that could go on the global market. iran, venezuela, saudi arabia.

of those three, i think having the meeting with the saudis makes far more sense than making some accommodation with the dangerous and aggressive regime in iran or with the mature -- it violates norms of human violates for human rights. because it is an integrated global market for oil and gas, it helps with global crisis and inflation. >> all of these programs and many you haven't mentioned, depends on holding control of the senate, the house, and november. limit talk about the impact of inflation. it was a new 40 year high last month, up 9.1% from last year. a pound of chicken, up .36.

how do you counter that on the campaign trail? how do the democrats make the case that they deserve to stay in power in november? >> one of the things that i've heard for years from people from delaware, the price of prescription drugs. those are not optional, you have to take them. family after family, from seniors to parents of infants have said to me, we have to do something on prescription prices. democrats have a plan. we are poised to present. when nori. if you plus. it was passed out of the senate a year ago by a bipartisan

margin. it would reduce the price by increasing their supply. why don't we have enough affordable used cars? currently available to buy? there are not enough semiconductor chips. there are two things the democrats are to move forward that would reduce the price of things that really matter to people. prescription drugs and vehicles. we do not have full cooperation from our colleagues with the republican minority. there are some working well with us on the compete act, and others are trying to fend away to lucky. we have a way forward. the president has a plan forward. we need republicans to join us if we will reduce prices at the grocery store, pharmacy counter and to buy a car. >> the political fallout after a man is charged with the of a 10-year-old girl in ohio. he is forced to travel out of

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the accusedof a 10-year-old girl has been arrested and also confessed. this story with the debate over the impact of a highly restrictive abortion law. does not have exclusions for rape or incest. >> just last week it was reported that a 10-year-old girl was a rape victim. 10 years old. imagine being a little girl, 10 years old -- does anyone believe that this is the highest majority view that that should not be able to be dealt with? >> conservatives were quick to doubt the story. it was headlined as a story that was too good to be confirmed. writing, quote, all types of bands are traveling on social media. you don't expect it to get to the white house. >> marty is a reporter for the capitol journal. reporter for e

capitol journal. >> chris, the wall street journal has a new wall street journal. yes, this is the case, a lot of fast-moving developments. he's being held now on to million dollar bill. the detective went before the courtroom yesterday and talked about how the initial police report for this came in last month. june 22nd, july 6th when the child identified the suspect. july 12th, just a few days ago, he was served with a search warrant and his dna was swot. according to the detective, the child went to indiana late last month, june 30th, i believe, to have the abortion. >> she couldn't have it any longer in ohio.

she was three days too late. a legal update, thank you for that. >> with abortion shaping up to be a big issue for the midterms, the democrats are already putting out ads on it. >> if republicans get their way, abortion will be the end nationwide with no exceptions. medicare and social security will end in five years with no replacement. elections will be decided by politicians with no regard for your vote. if republicans get back in power, your rights, benefits, freedoms, will be in danger. democrats will protect your rights. the only way to stop the republicans is to vote for democrats. >> the democrats see this as a lifeline, essentially, the head of the midterms? especially when you can look at extreme cases like these? >> yes. democrats have always, as long

as i have been on the campaign trail, reproductive rights has always been a guardrail in democratic politics. democrats for a long time have talked about the potential for republicans and conservatives to overturn roe. most voters never had to grapple with the idea and could actually happen. women for the last 49 years have never had to think about whether or not they had a fundamental right to access abortion care. this is really an untested moment in politics. abortion has always been a galvanizing issue for voters. what we are seeing with the polling, this is rising in the ranks for voters as they consider their top issues going into the returns. that's exactly what the democrats want. they see it as a moment to energize and elect for it that democrats badly need to energize. i can say when it comes to this horrifying story out of ohio, it does strike me that the knee- jerk reaction is to doubt the

girl at the center of it. we have seen this time and again with women and in this case, someone who is not even a woman of age yet. being galvanized in the press. >> we should've seen this coming. we were bound to see cases like this. in 2021 alone, ohio fought 6000 cases for sexual victims with children under 18. could this be potential political quicksand for republicans? >> i think very possibly. i think our state leaders don't want to talk about, what age should a woman or a girl be required to have a baby? i have asked several times and i'm not getting answers to it. >> on the hill, where you are,

highly emotional hearing yesterday. tell us what's happening on the hill? >> two hearings yesterday. the third this week. we see democrats coming back to town, very focused on this issue. continuing to do a blitz legislatively. there is attempt to do legislation that will not end up getting done. trying to protect women's ability to move over stateline if they need to access abortion care. exactly like this case in ohio. on the other side, we will see how democrats will be able to pass it and then run into a brick row like they always do. they are also going to try to add protection for women traveling across the state line. there's also another push around data privacy. democrats publicly and privately say they are frustrated by the administration not doing more. the reality of course, the federal government from white house to congress is largely

outside of movie legislatively on this issue. the democrats are left in the position of trying to keep the attention on this issue while trying to drive ahead to november. >> there is the secondary issue. it was touched on in the last answer. you talked to a local pro- abortion rights group. is she concerned this will have a chilling effect on katrina pierson victims? rape victims? >> certainly. i think that the possibility is actually -- the attorney general of indiana is talking about going after the medical

license of the doctor there, katelyn bernard who initially reported this. this will have a chilling effect up and down the line. >> we are also seeing the number of doctors saying they might leave the profession because of all of this. we have much more, many more conversations in the days and the weeks ahead. earlier today, kevin spacey pleaded not guilty to sexually assaulting three men a decade or more ago. his trial sets to start on june 6th of next year. officials and west virginia say that dozens of people have fear after a torrential downpour. the storm, tuesday, started with six inches of rain. within a few hours it spiraled to an extreme flash flood. >> it was receiving. all of a sudden, it made

another big surge and came back. it wiped everything out. >> damage was one strong storm. from virginia, west virginia, kentucky. who's going to be on the ballot in 2024? after the new hints that president trump is getting ready to jump in the race, are we looking at a 2020 rematch? who else is sending signals that they want in? look at this. the book supermom. it happens at the time when the antlers of dears grow to their largest. don't worry, you can see it tonight. largest. largest. don't worry, you can see it so you can go and see... or taste or do absolutely nothing

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people who might challenge him is going up. just a short time ago that was turned into a bit of a political frenzy with new york magazine reporting, quote, trump what it disclose what he decided. not at first. then, he couldn't help himself. i would say that my big decision will be whether i go before or after, he said. you understand what that means? his tone was conspiratorial. if he is running, that is still a question, it would shake up 2024. it's already dizzy with speculation. take california governor, gavin newsom. >> freedom is under attack in your state. republican leaders are banning books. making it harder to vote. restricting speech and classrooms. even penalizing women and doctors. i urge all of you who live in florida to join the fight. join us in california were we still believe in freedom.

freedom to choose, and the freedom to love. don't let them take your freedom. >> that add aired in florida. of course florida is a critical presidential state and home to governor ron desantis. let me bring in, the majority leader from 2016 to 2020. the youngest in state history. michael starr hopkins, worked on the obama and clinton campaigns. michael, we talked a short time ago about how the speculation that drum is an bingo might be the detractor from his january 6th woes. look at it realistically. what would it mean if you do decide to get into the race? not just for republicans, could you be biden's dream opponent? >> it means a couple things. first, it could have a detrimental effect on republicans in the midterms if

you were to announce before the midterm election. the last thing that the republicans want is a referendum on donald trump in 2022. i think what he's trying to do is clear the field. he knows that ron desantis is a tough candidate. as someone who kind of balances out the weaknesses of drum. i think as a potentially heads into a third presidential race, he's nervous about the prospect of running against ron desantis. running against ron >> a new polling is showing job biden at the lowest approval rating. lower than trump or obama at their lowest. our polls like this driving not just trump but frankly anybody looking at the race? >> is certainly has an impact. on the democratic side, there's a frustration that there is a

lack of leadership. a vacuum of a strong message that could push back against a lot of the policies that the republicans are passing across the country. at the same time, almost the ceiling that democrats have to own the positions when it comes to the economy, a lot of the circumstances that led to where we are at frankly have happened under the trump ministration. we really would like for there to be more of a strong message, rather than feeling like we are on defense all the time. i think you will see a lot of democrats energized by what governor newsom is doing. >> let me ask you about him. i think when you were the majority leader, you know him, you worked beside him, you know his political ambitions. when you see his ads and his rhetoric, does he look more and

more like somebody who might run for president? >> i think it would be foolish for anybody who could be a contender to not think of it. it certainly is an option for him. i think his actions are more based on his frustration of the vacuum that i talked about. feeling that there is not somebody stepping up and dropping out these messages. is this the future that you want for yourself, your families and your kids? i certainly think that is something on the table. i don't think people should be lightly overlooking the vice president and the role she can play. that race is two years away. a lot can happen. >> michael, look, lots of people could be a headache for president biden. let's talk about some other things. the new york times shows the number one issue driving the democratic voters of running a different candidate is age. young voters are particularly

fed up with older politicians. i guess that raises the question, not just biden, trump as well, how old is too old? >> is not about the number but more about the energy factor. for americans, especially young democrats, the democratic party that doesn't reflect what the democratic voters look like. the president has really lost an opportunity here when it comes to being able to excite the votes. the base. for example, he could announce that he was going to federally make marijuana legal. he would be able to box in joe manchin on the build back better. instead, we have seen the president fall behind and his response to abortion. failed to accurately respond to things like crt. not aggressively take on

republicans in a way that i think democrats need. when he called mitch mcconnell a man of honor, i think a lot of democrats are scratching their heads and wondering that if mitch mcconnell is a person of honor, what are we doing here? >> thank you so much. more questions and no clear answers. healthy victims of uvalde,texas and how they are dealing with the shootings. you are watching, chris jansing reports. only on msnbc. msnbc.d ph il. he forgot a gift, so he's sending the happy couple some money. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop banking.

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i always used to blame on their watch. i don't see how they can sleep at night. i wouldn't be able to. >> chris, the woman who you just saw there at the end, she was at the city council meeting earlier this week and she was fiery, holding the mayor and all of the council members accountable and really demanding that they do more, directly for the families and the community here but also in terms of physical representations and a reminder of what happened here. and people feel the obligation to remember the children and the

people lost but many just have been given the answers that they deserve. >> chris. >> and that's going to do it for this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every day weekday. don't go anywhere "katy tur reports" starts next. don't go a reports" starts next that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. (vo) right now america deserves the network more people rely on. introducing welcome unlimited from verizon. yeah, we got that. at our best price ever. just $30 per line. (joe) wait, did he just say $30 dollars? (vo) yep. $30 dollars a line for the whole family. (fran) for real?

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. we now know who donald trump was trying to reach. a white house support staffer was the one who rejected donald trump's call. the january 6 panel worries the call was an attempt to witness tamper and has referred it to the justice department. we do not know if d.o.j. is looking into it. we also don't know what this staffer might know or testify to. the committee has not even confirmed if that person will end up testifying. so temper your expectations. so far it's a lot of excitement for a lot of big question marks. the d.o.j. has narrowed down its initial request for documents from the committee. they are zeroing in on material focus on the fake slate of electors. prior to this, the d.o.j. asked the committee for every transcript of each of the more than 1,000 interviews it has conducted, which was not a small job. but that, so far,