this is the katie phang show live from miami, florida. we have lots of news to cover, lots of question to answer. major developments in the january six investigations ahead of next week's officially announced primetime hearing. first, the committees hours long interview with the former ceo of over stock dot com. they are at the now infamous unhinged december 2020 oval office meeting. what came out about testimony? plus, the panel is showing a subpoena to the secret service. they are seeking text messages from january 5th and sixth.

they were said to have been erased. then, new reporting got efforts to get testimony from donald trump and mike pence. one committee member says that it may not even be worth the effort. later, the case of a ten year old girl from ohio that has become a flash point in the debate about abortion. this is how some figures lined up to sell doubt that this child even existed. this is what they are saying now. all that is coming up. so let's get started. >> good saturday morning to you all. welcome to the katie phang show. first, we have some breaking news to get to. president biden is wrapping up his four-day middle east trip. saudi arabia, the president is

expected to give his remarks any moment. for the latest on his trip, we are joined by nbc news white house correspondent carroll of the. she is live. carol, good morning. what are we expecting to hear? what did he achieve with this particular trip? >> the big thing that has happened in the last 24 hours is this meeting that the president had with the crown prince, the de facto leader of saudi arabia. this trip has been sharply criticized from democrats at home. even the president himself has been conflicted about whether or not to make this trip. a number of his advisers how to really persuade him that this was something that was really worthwhile. of that is because of the murder of a washington post columnist. u.s. intelligence officials say

it was approved by the crown prince himself. they exchanged offense bump with the crown prince. it is now causing even more backlash from the presidents critics. the president is saying he raised this issue of the murder of jamal khashoggi at the start of his meeting with the crown prince. take a listen to what he said. >> with respect to the murder of jamal khashoggi, i raised it at the top of the meeting. i made it clear what i thought of it at the time, and but i think of it now. >> there is a response to your comments about jamal khashoggi. >> he basically said that he was not personally responsible for it. i indicated that i thought he was. >> the saudis are refuting the presidents account that he raised it forcefully with the crown prince. the white house says that they stand by the presidents characterization of their exchange on that issue. this is separate from humid night issue.

the president said that this is something that you would have to raise. -- he got a number of things on policy from the saudis during his visit so far. he says there's gonna be an extension of this truce in yemen. the saudis have agreed to open their airspace to commercial airlines from israel. that is seen as a big deal. now the president is heading into meetings with nine other leaders from gulf states. he will deliver that speech that you mentioned. it outlined his vision for the middle east. >> thank you for bringing us that latest. just for everyone watching at home, as soon as president biden begins his remarks we will bring them to you live. searching now here to home, new developments surrounding the indianapolis doctor who helped a ten you'll girl who was a rape victim from ohio get an abortion. the doctor lawyer says that

they sent a cease and desist order to the attorney general. they demanded that he, quote, stop smearing their client. this comes after he publicly questioned whether the ob/gyn, dr. caitlin bernard, follow the legal requirements in indiana to report the procedure. we have a reporter following this story closely. lindsey, good morning. what else is her lawyer saying about what is going on? >> katie, the attorney general was asked to stop making false or misleading statements about dr. bernard and casting her in a forest like. if he continues to do so, his statements may form the basis of a defamation claim. that is according to the doctor's lawyer. let's back up. the 27 year old man from central america admitted to the horrific crime, that is according to prosecutors and court documents filed in ohio. a judge set his bond of $2 million on wednesday. this is all first reported in

the indianapolis star after dr. bernard spoke out because the girl had to travel from ohio to indiana. that was after ohio's law took effect after roe v wade was overturned last month. abortion right advocates show the dangers of ending the constitutional right to an abortion. before news of that arrest, republican politicians, including ohio's attorney general, they actually doubted the girls story. an indiana reporter went on fox news this week declaring he was investigating the doctor who treated the victim to see if she failed to report the treatment. take a listen. >> we have this abortion activist acting as a doctor with a history of failing to report. we are gathering this information. we are gathering the evidence as we speak. we are going to fight this until the end. that includes looking at her license. we want to see if she failed to report it. in indiana, it is a crime to not report.

>> that was earlier this week. msnbc has since returned that terminated pregnancy the port from indiana health. it shows that it was reported within two days of the procedure. that is well within statute. in a statement to msnbc yesterday, the doctors employer, are you health, they say they have found no wrongdoing in their investigation. on fox news, they had no evidence of wrongdoing when they made the statements. here is what dr. bernard's attorney told people yesterday. >> doctor bernard is an amazing, compassionate, well trained person. she has seriously taken a lot of hits over the last few days. you know, she has had to have security at her home. she has had to take other steps. at the same time, we have been overwhelmed and gratified by the outpouring of support for her that we have received from all across the country and around the world.

>> katie, we should mention yesterday that the house passed a bill that prevents people from punishing -- it does not look like it is going to go anywhere. katie? >> lindsay riser, thank you. we have more on how they have been trying to spin the story on a ten year old dictum after they reported it was true. a person who's running for governor will join me to discuss. moving on now to the january six investigation, the committee has confirmed that they will hold a key primetime public hearing on thursday focusing on donald trump tasha in zoriana action on january six. we are also learning more about patrick burn. he is the former ceo of overstock dot com. he testified before the committee for more than eight hours yesterday. he was, quote, on heinous in an

office meeting in december of 2020. trump awe his -- . ,? -- --take a look at the testimony from last week that was played at the hearing. >> -- [inaudible] i never know who this guy was. the first thing i did, i walked in and looked at him, who are you? he told me. >> burn was on capitol hill for his testimony. nbc news reporter had a chance to ask him if there are any charges that the committee would look at him for instead of donald trump. burn maintained that he was just the idea guy. >> i was the guy who put on the table a range of options for the president. we thought the president had the authority to order a quick

investigation. that is all it was about. >> when asked if he is in touch with the fbi or just department about january six, byrne had no comment. he had a healthy dig into all of this. washington post national political reporter isaac -- isaac, good morning. most the country had not heard of burn until this week. what could be so special about this man's testimony? what is going to set it apart from other trump allies that we have already heard from? >> like you mentioned, katie, he was in that meeting that we heard so much about. >> sorry, isaac, i'm gonna cut you off. i apologize. isaac, i am so sorry. i apologize. we do -- we are gonna come back you. we are gonna go to president biden. he is speaking right now. he is live in saudi arabia. >> we have a course of action in the indo-pacific and beyond. russia's brutal and unprovoked war against neighboring ukraine. they're trying to stabilize

activity in the middle east. we have also seen some critical changes. for the first time since 9/11, the american president is visiting this regime without american troops being engaged in combat in the region. we will always honor the bravery and selflessness of the sacrifices of the americans that served, that includes my son, major beau biden. he was stationed in iraq for a year. we will never forget the memory of the 7000 americans who made the ultimate sacrifice in iraq, afghanistan, and elsewhere over the last two decades. today, i am proud to be able to say that the era of wars in the region, wars involving a huge number of american forces, it is no longer underway. we maintain both the capacity and determination to suppress the terror threat wherever we find it. we demonstrated that this year.

we eliminated the isis in a daring operation. just this week, we took out another key leader of isis. we are going to continue our counterterrorism efforts working on a broad coalition of countries. that includes everyone around this table. we will turn our attention and resources to supporting our partners, strengthening our alliances, and building coalitions. we want to solve the paul blooms facing this region of the world. we are clear about the challenges in the middle east. we know where we have the greatest capacity to help drive positive outcomes. our objective, are focus is on being realistic and achievable. we want to target resources, rebuild trust, and deliver real results. we will operate in the context of the middle east as it is today.

it is more united than it has been in years. the gcc is a prime example of that. former rivals reestablished diplomatic and i'm no ties. new memberships are being forged. we are starting to see the middle east through the lens of opening an opportunity. let me state is clearly, the united states is going to remain active and engaged partner in the middle east. as a world goes more competitive, the challenges that we face a more complex. it is becoming clear to me that our interests are interwoven with the middle east. we will not walk away and leave a vacuum to be filled by china, russia, or iran. we will seek to build on this moment of leadership.

we have five key principles that we would like to very briefly share with you today. first, the united states will support the strength and partnerships with countries that subscribe to the rules based on international order. we will make sure that those countries can defend themselves against foreign threats. the united states, and each of the countries around these tables, we reject that order. we reject the use of brute for us to change borders. the entire gcc be voted in the united nations general assembly to condemn russia's invasion of ukraine. it was a watershed moment. each of the core values of sovereignty and territorial integrity are truly universal. i want to be clear, supporting the rules based order does it mean we does not always have to agree on every issue. but it does mean we align around core principles, that

allows us to work together on the most pressing global challenges. for example, on food security, we are collectively committing billions of dollars to alleviate the crisis here in the region. worth more than one billion dollars covering from the united states -- and sure adequate supplies to meet global needs. energy producers have already increased productions and look forward to seeing what is coming in the coming months. and on the climate crisis, we are collectively it investing hundreds of millions of dollars in clean energy initiatives, and placing the climate emissions. and working together to diversify supply chains and invest in infrastructure. we are looking forward the age of the way hosted the next two major un climate conferences. second, united states will not allow for an original powers to

jeopardize the freedom of navigation through the middle east waterways. including the streets of our most -- know more will we tolerate the efforts of any country to dominate another in the region. through military buildup and encouraging and or threats. the free flow of commerce really sources in the middle east is a lifeblood of a global economy. that is a shoe today as it has been for decades. and one nations i dear to the international rules at work, my administration -- we establish a new naval task force of the work in partnership of many of the neighbors to help secure the red sea. that includes the first naval task force to use -- vessels and artificial intelligence technologies to enhance the maritime awareness.

we are also integrating the into defenses and early warning systems to assure that we can defeat airborne threats. third, united states will not just aim to deter threats of resources, we will work to reduce tensions, de-escalate and conference whatever possible. this approach is already reaping dividends as was mentioned -- working closely with saudi arabia, the uae and the un. -- it is now in the 15th week, we have welcomed the leadership of iraqi prime minister conway their brain countries from the region together for talks -- thanks to the months of quiet -- international peacekeepers from the island of the red sea. and transform an area that once sparked wars and do the future

have a peaceful tourism in economic development. and as we continue to work closely with many of you to counter the threats imposed the region by iran, we are also pursuing diplomacy to return constraints on iran's nuclear program. no matter what, the united states is committed to ensuring that they un never gets a nuclear weapon. fourth, the united states will build political economic and security connections between the united states, between the u.s. partners wherever possible. while respecting these country sovereignty and independent choices. -- these are the underlying themes of the day. how many years have we've been trying to correct iraq's electricity to the gcc grids? i remember being briefed on in and 2016 when i was vice

president of the united states. i said let's get it done. well today, finally after years of failed efforts and false starts, thanks to the efforts of so many around this table, it's done. projects like in the region and new free trade deal, investments between neighbors like the saudi investments in asia and europe. more rebuilding these connections, the more we will see the benefits that return to our people annual growth. faith, the united states will always promote human rights in the values and trying to charter. foundational freedoms are foundational to who we are as americans. it's in our dna and it's also because we know that the future will be won by the countries that will unleash to feel potential of the population. -- equal rights and contribute to building stronger economies.

resume societies and more modern and capable military's. where citizens can question and criticize the latest without fear of reprisal. i've gotten plenty of criticism over the years, it's not fun. the ability to speak openly and exchange ideas freely, as one innovation. accountable institutions that are free from corruption, and act transparently and respect the rule of law of the best way to deliver growth. respond to people's needs and i believe and shorter justice. no country gets it right all of the time. even most of the time, including the united states. but our people are the strength. our countries with the confidence to learn, from the mistakes grow stronger. so let me conclude by something all of this up in one sentence. the united states is invested

in building a positive future in the region, partnership with all of you and united states is not going anywhere. this is the table full of problem solvers. a lot of good we can do if we could do it together. thank you good for inviting me, we just made the summit today and thank you for many years of partnership between your countries and the united states. god protect our troops, thank you. >> just had the opportunity to hear president biden who is wrapping up his four-day trip to saudi arabia into the middle east. excuse me is top in israel before he ended up in saudi arabia. presently and she had to, saudi arabia. just a couple of kind of highlights from what we heard. he listed five principles that the united states is going to be looking to in terms of the

relationships with the middle east. notably he said, iran will never, ever get a nuclear weapon. i did not say never, he said iran will never get a nuclear weapon. united states commits that -- he also said the u.s. is also and support of human rights and values and the united nations shutter. interestingly, bringing that up as there is criticism of president biden right now in terms of i'm actually going to meet with mbs in saudi arabia. so again, president biden wrapping up his 40th trip to the middle east delivering these live remarks to that particular group. and at this, time the united states is going to remain an active engage partner in the middle east according to president biden with united states interest closely aligned. he also spoke of china, russia russia and iran. making sure the united states does not allow a vacuum to occur or to appear and allowing those three countries stable to gain some type of advantage in

the region. after we take a quick break right now, we will get back to isaac arm strove to talk about january 6th. here we go. >> we don't know who the originating doctor in ohio was. if they even exist. i know our prosecutors and cops in the state, there is not one of them that would not be turning over every rock and their jurisdiction if they had the slightest hint that this had occurred there. >> later in the show, as if the trauma and being raped in terminating the pregnancy a tenure salt is not enough, it's a sample of a concerted effort to discredit the young victims story. but news of an arrest in the rape case exposed rampant lies peddled by republican officials. that coming up later. that coming up

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show. before we cut to the live footage of president biden in saudi arabia, we have the chance to be able to speak with washington post political reporter, isaac -- we are good to have him come back right now. we are mentioning that patrick byrne, the former ceo of overstocked of tom, he testified for more than eight hours, isaac. i had asked you before we cutaway that most of the country did not know who burned was until this week. what is special about burn and what is going to set him apart from some of the other trump allies and cronies that we have heard from already? >> well, the reality is that patrick byrne would talk to a wall if it was listened to his theories about how the 2020 election was a stolen. he is kind of begging for people to listen to his side of the story. that is what happened. this meeting at the white house was so contentious.

we heard about it at the last hearing. he was there with sydney powell and michael flynn. he is a relevant witness. he can add another perspective to what happened at that meeting. he can have the kind of advice that then president trump was getting an interested in. -- we can discuss what he was trying to do in terms of staying in office despite losing the election. >> we know that the justice had a chance to ask him if he looked at himself as a possible person facing charges, he did not answer. he was more than happy to speak for eight hours of this committee. is it really to target donald trump? is it to find out what donald trump heard, what he knew? there is the fact that he was planning to do something on january six. what will be the point in bringing in someone like patrick burn? >> one of the most intriguing

things about this meeting was the suggestion that there was a draft executive order to have the military seized voting machines. this was something that some of the participants were encouraging former president donald trump to do. more detail on that, more documentation on that would really help clarify the video. this has been called a paper coup. it might have gotten close to being like an actual military coup. >> looking ahead to thursday's primetime hearing, it is going to focus on donald trump's inaction on january six. what are you specifically gonna be watching or listening for to come out during that hearing? >> this next hearing is billed to be 187 minutes between when

the public did not see trump during the riot. there is a lot that we don't know about what he was doing, who he was talking to. the committee already discovered that the phone logs are blank in that period. we have heard testimony from some white house aides who were there. you know, they were not able to get with him. they were afraid of going in and talking to him. he just wanted to be alone. again, you know, anything that we can learn about his mindset, how he was reacting to what he was seeing, congressman cheney has mentioned repeatedly that he never was in touch with any part of the government about this. and the more detail about what was brought to him, this is something that he actively refuses to do. that would all help get to this

core point of, what did he want to happen that day? what was he trying to accomplish? >> isaac, we know that trump is crashing with his big lie. he wants to do and a legit announcement that he is going to be running again for the white house in 2024. in your opinion, what would happen with a trump 2024 announcement in the coming weeks in terms of may be changing and moving the needle for the outcome of november midterms? >> this is a debate that is happening among former presidents own advisers. we have been told that there is some interest that if he announces early, it will help clear the field. they are anticipating that republicans do well in the midterms. he wants to be front and center in being able to take credit for that. on the flip side, the democrats are going to blame trump. they are going to try and make the midterms about trump.

they're gonna blame trump for any losses that the republicans take anyways. he might as well be out there being front and center when trying to turnout his supporters. the argument that is being made against it is, look, you are making it all about you instead of these other issues that republicans think they have a better chance of winning on. we are focusing on president biden's record in office. we are focusing on inflation. there are all of those issues that they would rather talk about. >> isaac, thank you so much for being here this morning. i want to say thank you for being so flexible with our live cut. we appreciate you taking the time. >> absolutely, thank you. >> coming up, former dayton, ohio mayor joins me to talk about the ten year old abortion case that is drawing worldwide attention. this is how the conservative right tried so hard to shut

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already traumatized, forced to travel to another state. imagine being that little girl. i'm serious, just imagine being that little girl. ten years old. >> it was these remarks from president biden that struck a nerve on the right. a story so horrific and damning in its illustration of post world life in america. some conservative media outlets and politicians rushed to pour cold water on the case. some even questioning, one of the girl even existed. >> why did the biden administration speak out of line to repeat a story about a ten-year-old child who got pregnant but and they got an abortion which was not a lot to get one. one the story is not true. >> have you had anybody come to

you and your state to say we are looking into this? police report was filed? >> not a was per. >> but then on thursday, ohio authorities arrested a suspect. blowing up that entire narrative. at ohio state attorney general you just heard from, he later issued a gratuitous statement thanking that police for quote getting a rapist off of the streets. but how did right-wing media handle that? fox news turned its ire on the doctor who treated the victim. the wall street journal editorial board and mitchell around the piecing and abortion story too good to confirm. then changing as soon the next day to correcting the record on a rape case. oh and then, republican congressman jim jordan of ohio, quietly deleted a tweet that dismissed the story as a lie. joining me now is man whaley, -- for governor of ohio. she is suffering them --

in the november election. man, i always enjoy and love having time to speak with you. thanks for being back on the show. you know all of these dots, that went up in smoke. but the reality is, this little girl's ordeal really put the spotlight on the dangers of the overturning of roe v. wade. our efforts are crossed the story prove positive that republicans are not going to have some serious trouble justify the ramifications of their abortion bans? >> absolutely katy as we've said before that the state, ohio where this happened as a pro-choice state. and this extremist politicians like governor no wind and attorney general yost believe that children, ten, 12:13 year old children should carry these pregnancies to term. and they got caught because it's incredibly, incredibly bad policy and very unpopular. and so you see them trying to walk back but the fact of the matter is, this is mike

dewine's ohio. this is dave yes ohio. they pushed and signed the six-week abortion ban. put it in place within hours after roe fell. now we are seeing the dire repercussions of this terrible law affecting our very youngest and most vulnerable. i'm >> ohio state eternal shave yost, he claims that this ten-year-old did not have to leave the state of ohio to get an abortion. please can you set the record straight on that issue? >> yes simply not true. they have put this bill in place, they know the repercussions were. people don't like it and now they're trying to walk it back. the fact of the matter is if you talk to any attorney or any doctor, they will not put up and not follow the law. and fear that will dave yost go after them. dave yost wants to have it both ways just like mike dewine. they want to have extreme agree just laws not pretend that they

are not really for them. when they get in the rooms with antitrust activists who are incredibly extreme, out of step with the rest of the state. they have themselves on the back for these actions. katie, the next bill they are supporting is one that stops abortion i conception. bans iuds, bans and vitro for the-ization. when asked about specifically hypothetical about a 13 year old getting raped. when they have to carry that pregnancy to term? the representative that is in with dave yost and mike dewine said the pregnancy was an opportunity for that young girl. this is what dave yost thanks. he got caught just like mike dewine, his comments back on this issue is two words. likno comment. before they were saying that the young girl did not exist. >> yes you, know they had a lot to. say they can run their mouth and then when the truth comes out, they suddenly don't have anything to say. i wanted to quickly talk about

indiana state attorney general. as state attorney general is not going after the doctor who performed the abortion in indianapolis. i want to ask you, is this just a canary in the coal mine for what is in store sadly for abortion providers across the country? how do we protect them from this type of draconian action? >> it is very scary right now. the abortion providers did everything right. this is my point with attorney general dave yost. he would do the same thing in ohio, going after these doctors and you know we are in the midwest and the canary in the coal mine about these issues right? these are economic issues to for our state. do you think women from 20 to 40 years old are going to want to live in a state where they can't even get full health care. the thing doctor is a want to move into places like ohio and indiana when they have these lawyers on them constantly? they can't provide the care that people need? lifesaving care, they cannot

provide it to women. it is going to have a significant effect in ohio. and we are just beginning to see these issues. this is the most agree to this, we have had in the past in 2020 over 50 abortions not have been documented of children. this isn't going to stop and for these man to think this is not a repercussion of what they have done, this is their. choice this is what they have done to women, and girls across ohio. it will continue to get worse. >> man yesterday, the house passed two bills, the women's health protection act which would codify abortion rights protections into federal law. and the ensuring access to abortion act which would protect a person's ability to travel across state lines for purposes of obtaining an abortion. what happens to american women when these two bills sadly, inevitably fail in the united states senate? >> like the supreme court made it clear that this is a states issue. now that is why we are super

focused on what we can do in ohio. why this governor's race is so key, abortion is on the ballot, this november and a very real way in ohio. it is why you know we have said as soon as we are elected governor, we are going to move to codify this by putting it in the ohio constitution. so no matter who is a legislature in the future, no matter who won extremist come into office here in ohio, 15 or 20 years down the road. we will have women's rights protected in the state of ohio. and i think that's what we need to do is get into that level to protect women's choice because the supreme court has completely changed moves with roe and moving it into the state. sadly, i think that is what will happen but it makes these governors races, including ohio governor's race really important for women to access to women's rights. >> you are right, now the focus is on the states. what's races like yours as you run to be the next governor of the state of ohio. become so critical for people to get out and vote, especially in november. --

as always thank you for taking the time to join, us i appreciate it. >> thank, you katie. >> coming up, it is a question on everybody's mind. who is following the january six investigation? while donald trump or mike pence actually testified before this committee? a member of the committee says, that possibility is still on the table? we will discuss it with joyce fans coming up next. we will discuss it with suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” fans comin and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro. language when you use dove dry spray? [laughing] it shows. try dove dry spray. our weightless formula with

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not going to want donald trump to be anywhere near being sworn under oath. he is a compulsive liar. i think that he was lying at the rate of something like eight or ten lies a day before he left office. >> representative jamie raskin has a point. getting a former president to testify under oath would be huge. many this morning are wondering whether or not it will be a pointless exercise. committee chair benny thompson told nbc news just last night of the panel is still deliberating on whether they will subpoena trump and his vice president, mike pence. the interest hearing from pence has been heightened since pat cipollone praised pence for fusing to meddle in the electoral college certification. >> i thought that the president did not have the authority to do what was being suggested. i think he understood my opinion, i think he understood my opinion afterwards as well.

i think he did a great service to this country. >> of course, it would also be a great service to this country if the former vice president were to testify under oath to the 16 committee so they can get a complete picture of what happened on january 6th. for a lot of january 6th updates that you might have missed last night, i am joined by my friend -- she is an attorney for alabama's northern district. she's a professor at the alabama school of law. she is also on an msnbc legal analyst. joyce, thank you for joining us. is it clear that crucial, joyous, for us to have the january six committee speak with both trump and pence under oath? that legal battle to make it happen, i don't know if it is worth it. >> i think, katie, we all have a sense in how this plays out. they will both be subpoenaed. neither one of them will end up testifying. perhaps it is that fact that contributes to the historical

record as much as anything. we all remember when hillary clinton testified in the very silly hearings, she testified for 11 hours straight. she answered every question, she cleared the record. the fact that neither the former president or vice president would sit down and speak with congress about an event that is so central to the future of the country, it came very close to being an armed insurrection. that fact deserves to be on the historical records of these subpoenas may serve a purpose that far transcends any hope of actual testimony. >> breaking overnight, the january six committee subpoenaed the secret service after learning that the agency allegedly a raised text messages from january 5th and sixth of 2021. talk to us about why the committee has now moved to subpoena these missing text messages. what could possibly come of all of this? >> we don't really have clarity

on what happened here. there are two different versions. it looks awfully suspicious that messages that were sent on the fifth and 6th of january, right as the insurrections are happening, those messages were destroyed. honestly, katie, if you step back from what we know about this situation, what we know about the secret service, they were entering into a long planned migration. any erasure in their view was inadvertent. someone in the secret service should've had a good sense to pump the brakes. wait a second. we need to preserve everything for the last couple of days. this will be a crucial part of the records. the fact that that alone does not happen, i think it is suggestive of some lack of vision of the top of the organization. what we -- we don't know the truth here. congress's intent at getting to the truth. was there some form of inadvertent failure to save these messages? was there something more

deliberate going on? in my experiments in government, this is not in frequent. there is a lot of problems we have east sorts of migrations. typically, these sort of messages can be recovered because of government records and retention policies. they require attention, particularly to support criminal prosecution. i would be surprised if we don't see these records emerge over the next few days. if congress doesn't ultimately get everything that is entitled to hear -- >> to your point about timing, the letter that was sent from chair betty thompson says that they wanted the records by tuesday. that is in advance of anything that is going to come out in thursday's primetime hearing. joyce, also breaking overnight, the justice department is saying that the january six committee has adequately justified its subpoena. former white house chief of staff, mark meadows, he sued the committee late last year. he claimed executive privilege. the doj conclusion is coming a month after it is trying to

hold meadows in criminal contempt for his noncompliance with subpoenas. what should we make a choice of this latest development. -- they declined to charge mark meadows with contempt. >> this is a perplexing situation. katie, you and i have discussed this. you know my feeling, the doj got the balance wrong here. they declined to enforce against meadows. likely, what they had in mind why they made this consideration, whether or not we agree with them, it is the difference in the burden of proof that they have in the civil case. they are seeking to enforce the subpoena. congress only has to establish that it is more likely than not they had a good thing. they had reasons for issuing the subpoena. in a criminal prosecution, the doj would bear the burden of proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. that is the only logical distinction here.

it is pretty weak sauce in this incident. it seems that proof of one is tantamount to proof of the other. >> joy, is very quickly, i have less than a minute. in other january six news, we know that steve baron fired a hail mary. it was an 11th hour motion to dismiss the indictment again. what do you think? are we going to see him go to trial on monday, july 18th? >> yes. >> you just made everyone on my production screen so happy. you made a lot of americans happy. joy vance, she said yes. i say yes. monday, steve bannon, you will be picking a jury on monday morning. joyce, thank you so much for being here. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> a quick note, do you need to catch up on these january six hearings, including one from tuesday? msnbc continues to drop each hearing in fall. we also give our analysis

before and after each hearing. scan the qr code on your screen. you will be brought to the podcast feed. that is the right spot to be. listen there so you don't miss a moment of the hearings. we'll be right back. ment of the hearings we'll be right back.

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-- starts right now. >> donald trump summoned a mob to washington, d.c.. ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. all i can say is strap in. >> donald trump won 40 2 am tweet electrified and galvanized his supporters. >> president trump tweeted that he wants the american people till march on washington d.c.. >> the president had everyone had on, down we basically just fouled what he said. >> did you think the president would be marching with you? >> yes, i thought every thought he thought he would be coming down. >> as a result, people died. >> every president is willing to whip up a civil war amongst his followers, with lies in the seat and snake oil. well