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texts by tomorrow. just in time for what may be the summer finale of their public hearings. what we are learning about new witnesses, including somebody the committee we found out will meet with tomorrow. that's just coming in to us, all of it as across town in d.c. inside the building you're looking at live here, you've got steve bannon in court, getting ready to learn which of his peers will decide whether he's guilty or not in his contempt of congress trial. also this hour, breaking new details out of indiana, with police revealing more about the shooter who went on a rampage inside a mall, and the man who stopped him. and our nbc news team dropping a new investigative piece out of texas. what one conservative group is blaming for a recent school shooting, not guns, per se, but what they call a woke teaching philosophy. we'll explain that later in the show. i'm hallie jackson in washington. with me now are my correspondents.

allie, let me start with you and this new reporting. who is showing up in front of the committee tomorrow? what do we know? >> we're hearing from our sources that garrett ziegler, who was a former white house aide to peter navaro, is going to come in for a transcribed interview for the committee tomorrow. he is involved in some way with that december 18th meeting that the committee has done so much work teasing out. they talked about a junior aide that may have let sidney powell and other lawyers into the white house. it's possible that could be something that he could talk to the committee about. though we should note our friends at the rachel maddow blog said they heard from ziegler after they published a story on this and he said he wasn't at the white house for that meeting. of course, this does present the reality of what has been true the entire time these hearings have been going on. the committee is fact finding actively, even as it's actively

laying out the facts it's already found. >> stand by for one second, because we have a simultaneous split screen happening. you have this new reporting, and ken, you're outside the courthouse where steve bannon has his trial going through jury selection right now. what has it been like considering bannon and his legal team said that in the district of columbia, it would be impossible to get a fair and impartial jury. >> reporter: not impossible, hallie, but tougher than normal. they selected 14 jurors so far of the 22 qualified panelists they were trying to get to whittle that down to 12 jurors. what's been remarkable is the extent people have been paying attention, and some small segment have small opinions about steve bannon. one said they thought this case would be cut and dry, a guilty verdict that is. that person was struck. another person said they didn't

believe anything steve bannon had to say. so there's been a hostile reception, but they've been able to find a set of impartial jurors and will continue tomorrow. >> leeann, we reported over the weekend that peter navaro rejected a plea deal that would have granted him leniency. how do you see that when we talk about the steve bannon trial and the differences here? >> reporter: i think with steve bannon, he came under too much pressure and he is trying to say he has no defense, so why move forward with the trial? it seems like the prosecution is urging him to plea, to settle in this case. but what has become clear is that there are people who are cooperating with this committee, and there's just a few people who aren't. overall, the committee has been quite pleased with the number of interviews that they have gotten, and the number of people who have come forward since they have been holding these hearings. so we'll see a lot of that moving forward on thursday, we're told, that the committee

we're going to hear from people who the committee has not yet presented yet. there's going to be new evidence. and so i think that that has become very clear with the committee, and they are still very much investigating while they are presenting the facts. >> to segue back to you, allie, they're investigating not just with ziegler, as you were reporting, but also this deadline that is coming up tomorrow. i put deadline in quotes, for the secret service, that has this subpoena deadline tomorrow, close of business, to turn of those deleted texts from on around january 6th. any reason to think that the secret service is going to put up a fight? >> reporter: well, they say publicly that they are cooperating with the committee. and look, in regards to these text messages, i'm glad that you look at tomorrow as sort of the deadline-ish. because what we have seen with this committee when it comes to

subpoena deadlines, they're willing to be flexible if they think they're going to get the information and the cooperation they want. so they are saying, members over the course of the weekend, making clear they think they're going to see these text messages recovered by that deadline tomorrow. of course, if they think there's a chance to get them, and it means a few more days, there's no reason for us to believe that the committee is not going to give the time it needs to get what it wants. of course, when it comes to these text messages there are questions why the committee is in this position to begin with, because of how important those days were and how important those text messages are to a commit fi that wants as much information as possible, not just around what was happening in the white house, but around the security posture on the 5th and the 6th, especially when they have people like cassidy hutchinson, who made clear there were things happening allegedly with the secret service and the former president that range from him wanting to go to the capitol, and even potentially lunging at a steering wheel or a secret service agent.

you have to imagine there would be text traffic about that. it makes sense why the committee wants to get their hands on these. >> and it's possible, and if they do, we may see some drips and drabs about that on thursday, which you framed, and i love this, thursday night's hearing as a season finale, and not a series finale, because there's been so much discussion that there will be more to come. so leeann, i'll give you the final word here. >> the text messages could fit in, because part of what this hear willing cover is those 187 minutes that there was a gap, no one knew what the president did from the time he finished speaking at the ellipse until he sent out the video, calling on his supporters to go home. so committee members say that they are going to lay out a minute-by-minute timeline of what he was actually doing that day, that they are able to fill

in those gaps, perhaps these secret service text messages from january 6th will even be more illuminating. but it's going to be, you know, every single one of these hearings has provided more information, more insight, and more things that we did not know. so perhaps thursday is going to be the same, hallie. >> thanks to all of you for starting us off on this monday afternoon. more in the last hour. police giving an update on that shooting in an indiana mall that killed three, and left the attacker dead. the police identified a 20-year-old local man who came out of the bathroom and opened fire. the shooter was killed by somebody police called an armed good samaritan, who was in the mall with a weapon that he legally owned. we don't know much about the motive piece of this. i want to bring in our correspondent.

maggie, bring us up to speed. >> reporter: sure, we'll start with the victims here. i want to show you their names and ages listed here at this press conference. we just got these in. conference we just got these in >> reporter: again, three people killed by the shooter in the shooting yesterday evening at the mall here near indianapolis. those are the first three names they wanted to highlight. then there came a fourth name that authorities just louded multiple times as being a true hero in this scenario, who stepped in with a hand gun and confronted the shooter at a distance, taking him out. his name, elijah dicken. he's 22 years old. here's part of what the mayor had to say about him earlier. take a listen. >> we're very thankful for young

22-year-old man who stopped this violent act. this young man, greenwood's good samaritan, acted within seconds, stopping the shooter and saving countless lives. >> reporter: again, authorities say this happened at a food court in a mall that was just kind of generally busy on a sunday evening. elijah dicken just had a handgun on him, legally. it's legal in the state of indiana to carry it as he was. he confronted the shooter who authorities say had multisemiautomatic hand guns. elijah does not want to talk publicly at this time. they gave us some details on the shooter in this case. 20-year-old jonathan sapirman. he is known to authorities. he has a juvenile record with things like getting into a fight at school, running away at one

point. but they say he doesn't have an adult record with authorities. he had been let go from his job at a warehouse. family told them he may have been, he believe, evicted from his apartment at the time of the press conference. they were going there to investigate that tip. they also told us more about how he carried out the shooting, that he brought three legally purchased, authorities say, weapons, including two ar-style rifles, one hand gun, and he brought several magazines of ammunition, including more than 100 rounds, which he had bought over the past few years. they said he had been practicing at a local shooting range to get better at shooting. they said he had no military background or police training. same goes for the good samaritan in this case. so just two civilians here. they say he entered the food court yesterday evening as the mall was getting ready to close, stayed in there for about an hour. came out of the bathroom and began shooting people inside

that food court. again, you can see at this point, no indication of mental illness or of a motive. nbc news has reached out to elijah dicken, the good samaritan, as well as the family of the perpetrator. neither wanting to talk at this point. they said they're just going through a lot and need some time. back to you. >> maggie live for us there, thank you. a quick break. next up, what to expect when the uvalde school board meets with more and more fury over that blistering report showing systemic failures at every level. and the house republican that has been subpoenaed in georgia's investigation into the push to overturn the 2020 election there. plus, the move putting mike pence at odds with his former boss today, as they get ready to face off on the campaign trail in one key state. stay with us. in one key state it disrupts my skin with rash.

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now, we're expecting an emotional and intense and unpredictable school board meeting in uvalde, texas, one day after a new, scathing report has come out. the most comprehensive one so far, finding what a texas house committee calls, and i'm quoting here, systemic failure and what they're calling egregiously poor decision making by law enforcement and by school officials. we're also getting our first look at some terrible scenes at the horror that unfolded in the hallways. police have released body cam footage. it's upsetting, some of the images are graphic. they're important to show folks so that hopefully something like this can be prevented. it shows some of the early moments of the police response, with the new report revealing nearly 400 officers ended up on scene, but the officers failed to prioritize saving the lives of innocent victims over their own safety. the report is also critical of officials at the school, school

officials pointing out there were three unlocked doors to the outside of the building, ahowing the killer to get in easily. and there was a bad wi-fi connection, which probably is what delayed a lockdown alert for some teachers. nbc's priscilla thompson is in uvalde, texas, and we're joined by a former fbi special agent, head of the bureau's active shooter program. priscilla, let me start with you. i imagine that tonight we will see more reaction to this report at the school board meeting in uvalde, no? >> reporter: absolutely, hallie. this community is angry. especially after seeing that report and seeing the failures one after another that happened during this tragedy as all of this unfolded. that is going to show up at the school board meeting tonight. for weeks, people in this community, the families of the victims have been told to wait to pass judgment until they had

the facts and until the investigation was complete and we had a sense of what happened. and now, we have that information and people are saying where is the action, where is the accountability? and specifically, as it relates to the school board meeting tonight, i am almost positive that the issue or the status of the school police chief pete arredondo is going to come up. of course, arredondo said he was not the incident commander, he does not believe he was the person in charge is what he told the texas tribune. but many in this community still feel that he bears responsibility. that is absolutely going to come up. of course, the question is going to be, what is the accountability going to look like? and that is a question that i pose to some of the families of these victims. i want to play a little bit of our conversation. listen. do you think there will be any accountability? >> not really. not what they should do to them. >> which is what? >> in my book?

they should fire them and take their pension away and give it to the parents that lost kids. >> reporter: and the focus of this school board meeting is supposed to be planning for the next school year, with parents allowed to ask questions about safety and things like that. that is going to be a major topic, a major point of concern of parents that i've been speaking to in this community. i want to point out breaking news we got a little while ago. the governor of texas greg abbott responding to this report, calling it "beyond disturbing" and saying it raises serious concerns. he says that he expects the legislature to begin working to take action, focus on mental health resources, public safety, and school safety. hallie? >> priscilla thompson, live for us in uvalde, texas. thank you for being on top of that and being there tonight at

that meeting. catherine, we talked about in the introduction of this discussion here, some of the findings from this preliminary report from the texas house. you ran the fbi's active shooter program and you think there are some implications here for other school districts, some training implications more broadly. talk us through your takeaways. >> thank you for having me on and i appreciate the opportunity. i wanted to share a couple of thoughts. the school board tonight, you know, they created this police department for this school board just a couple of years ago to cover nine buildings with six people. so they're not even in that school. i think that the school board itself needs to decide whether or not they should still have a police department that is separate, which they created in 2018. and they need to think about the fact that the report shows that for the school districts, and i think every school district out there needs to think about things like this. you can set up, they had all kinds of policies and procedures. they had fbi documents saying

going in and do this for the police department. but the school department even though it had poliies and procedures, they didn't enforce them. locks didn't work, doors stuck, policies weren't followed, like the doors weren't kept closed. every school district should be evaluating whether their policies are just paper tigering or whether or not they have some real things on the ground that they can implement, and that their teachers, and their parents will feel safe. >> i want to play for you part of the body cam foot am and what we heard from pete arredondo and another officer. let me play that and i want to ask you about it. lay that and io ask you about it

>> this footage is from fairly early on. and do you think that was the right thing there, or was the time for negotiating long ago? should we be looking at that body footage watching them storm the classroom? >> that should have been classroom storming. after the columbine shooting, we learned a lot. once shooters start, they don't stop until somebody stops them. when don monacu started the program that he started there in texas that many law enforcement officers are trained, in including these law enforcement officers in texas, when those officers are trained, they are not trained to have a discussion with somebody who has already established the fact that he's willing to murder people, including kids. >> you're saying that's just a different level of training that would need to have happened and probably wouldn't have worked any way? >> right.

they have training for barricaded individuals. this wasn't a barricaded individual situation. they knew there was live shooting going on. some of them were engaged in the live shooting when the guy fired back at them in the hallway. they should have moved forward. they should have moved forward first off when we first saw it. they should have moved forward when second rounds came off. before that, we saw those officers charge in there, listening to rounds being fired and did not do what they were trained to do, you know, by their own department. >> i have to think, as somebody who understands the training and response so well, watching this or see thing has to be infuriating for you. >> oh, it's so maddening. and it's so frustrating, not just for me. i spent 20 -- law enforcement has spent 20 years trying to change all of their tactics to make sure they can combine together and go in.

that's one of the most important lessons we learned after columbine, and we followed through on that. and tens of thousands of law enforcement officers get trained every year in this kind of conduct. i heard from so many different law enforcement officers, especially in the training world, fire department personnel saying thank you for speaking out. it's hard to criticize somebody else. you're not in their shoes. but this is such a glaring example. you compare it to what's going on in indianapolis and you see how the officers and chief responded in his press conference. he said this is what we do, we work in the national incident management system. we have an incident command. all of the ways that we normally respond, and the systems that are in place, they have the training. the report released says they had the training, they had the systems in place to do incident command, to do quick reaction. and they didn't do it. and it's not just one chief. it's a lot of officers there who

didn't -- who had to make a decision not to take charge. and making no decision is a decision. >> thank you so much for your perspective and for your expertise here on this, which i know is a difficult one for everybody. thank you. still ahead here on the show, how some conservatives are reducing one of the few bipartisan solutions to school shootings to what some critics see as another cultural war talking point. that's coming up in just a bit. . so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. that's coming up in just a bit and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro. hi, i'm eileen. and i write mystery novels.

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he's finding some investing ideas with merrill. and third as you know in baseball means three. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop banking. what would you like the power to do? nbc news has confirmed that another ally of former president donald trump, we're talking about congressman jody heiss, he's been subpoenaed by the fulton county d.a. so you're looking at him now. lawyers filed a motion to get this to federal court. he was one of donald trump's most vocal backers, trying to challenge the election, even attending a december 2020 strategy session at the white house. joining us now is our reporter. this is interesting in a couple

of levels. so let's take them in a few buckets. first of all, the fact that this is happening now, the hice pushback trying to move it to federal court, the timeline and why it's significant. >> reporter: that's right. he's been told to appear before the fulton county grand jury tomorrow, july 19th. now, he's fighting the subpoena and asking that his challenge be heard in a federal court in a filing today. his lawyers argued because he's a federal officer, it should be a federal court, not a state court. it's unclear what investigators want to ask the congressman. he's a four-term congressman, a trump loyalist who has spread claims about election fraud. he was the trump endorsed candidate in the republican candidate to take on brad rathlessberger, who trump asked to find 11,000 votes. and the january 6th committee

places hice at the white house in a december 2020 meeting, strategizing with a number of other trump allies about ways to overturn the election. so he's at the center of this broader investigation by the fulton county investigators, that has ensnared numerous trump allies, including senator lindsey graham of south carolina, who is fighting a subpoena that came his way on different legal grounds. we have reached out to jody hice's team for additional comment. >> thank you. appreciate it. coming up next, why new york city is scrambling to contain one of the biggest outbreaks of monkeypox ever. we'll take you live to the city's first mass vaccination site for that, coming up. mass site for that, coming up

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speak with congress wednesday, as her husband, volodymyr zelenskyy, is stripping two top law enforcement officials from their jobs because of suspected treason. he says there are 60 open cases of staffers working against ukraine in the offices of the senior prosecutor and state security chief. more than 650 similar cases have been opened since the start of the war. back here in the u.s., dr. anthony fauci, he says he's going to retire. we just don't know when. the doctor telling nbc news today he will probably step down as head of the nih sometime between now and the end of joe biden's first term. so a rather long runway there. fauci has been leading the national institute of allergy and infectious disease since 1984. the latest on the monkeypox outbreak, with new york city opening mass vaccination sites to slow down how many cases there are in the city. the state's health department says cases are more than 30% of the nearly 2,000 in the entire country. so a lot concentrated in and

around new york. let's bring in our correspondent who is there. talk about the response of the rollout of these monkeypox vaccines and what else officials can do to slow down the spread. >> reporter: well, hallie, right now there's a lot of frustration on the ground frankly. that's because it appears as those monkeypox has been able to get a foothold in new york city before the testing and vaccine infrastructure was ready to meet the challenge. so even though the people getting their shots behind me here are the lucky ones who are able to get some of the precious few appointments, even they are frustrated. they describe having to refresh their pages, try day after day to get one of the few slots. on friday, 9,200 appointments opened at 6:00 p.m. by 6:07, they were all gone. right now, the outbreak is primarily in new york's queer community. but this is not an std, that is, you know, only four queer people. this is a disease that could

spread to anyone from close contact. so while it may be contained, worry is that if new york continues to be behind, thing also get out of control. take a listen to one conversation i had with a gentleman trying to get shots. >> i am frustrated. i am anxious, because you really want to get this vaccine, because the cases are getting higher and higher. i am concerned that we want to protect not only our gay lbgtq community, but the community in general, yeah. we don't want this virus to spread. >> reporter: that gentleman tried to go to the clinic site in queens and then came here to his own neighborhood in chelsea to get a shot here and was turned away in both cases. so he's going to try again when some appointments open up. he knows someone who has monkeypox symptoms but hasn't been able to see a doctor and get it confirmed. so the anxiety is spreading here, and officials, while this

is a two-shot vaccine, are trying to get just one shot in as many arms as possible right now. that's where they want to focus to minimize the spread. >> antonia, thank you. new reporting out today from our investigative team shows why some conservative activists are pointing the finger at something called social emotional learning, or sel, something that can help prevent violence in schools. you might think this doesn't make sense, right? why are conservatives blaming these woke programs that republicans once liked? let me tell you the story. in 2018, there was a shooting at santa fe high school in texas. nine students and one teacher were killed. you see the headlines here. about a dozen others were hurt. after that shooting, texas' republican governor signed a bill into law that added more social emotional learning programs to schools, including things like more counseling, required mental health curriculum that by the way this

law had nearly unanimous backing from republicans, all the way up to president trump. democrats accused republicans of doing this to avoid of doing anything more substantive on guns. but this is not where it ends. it starts there. two years after this law goes into effect, a black student brought a gun to a stool, two teachers and a student were hurt that's when the story takes a turn. after that shooting, people in arlington started getting a flyer in their mailbox that looked like this from a group called patriot mobile action, and on it, the group blames the shooting for the very thing republicans supported in response to the other school shooting, social emotional learning. the flyer says the school district --

>> they have not responded to nbc's interview request, but i want to bring in the senior investigative reporter. so mike, glad to have you in on this. talk through, you know, the way that this culture war talking point is being deployed here by this conservative group, what their goal, is and the apparent irony in this. >> yeah, hallie. the goal here is to elect conservative school board members in this district. this flyer was sent out along with many other flyers ahead of a spring school board election. and it endorsed four candidates who the flyer said would restore sanity and safety to schools. and those four candidates did end up winning. and in terms of the irony, i'm not sure whether this group realized that these principles and policies were part of this republican package in 2018. i do think -- i don't know because they haven't responded to my interview request, but i

would think that their response would be that, you know, there's a lot of concern among the same groups that are opposed to critical race theory in schools are saying, you know, that these social emotional learning programs sound good on paper, but they have become vehicles to indoctrinate kids. when you apply these lessons to discipline, like looking for ways to help kids build their character rather than just disciplining them, they claim it opens a door for districts to stop disciplining kids, and making schools more unsafe in the process. >> based on the reporting that you have done, is there a racial component here to this one, mike? we mentioned that the suspected shooter here, the person who brought a gun was black. does that play into this? >> yeah, parents who i talked to saw that. i mean, this is a school district that has very diverse -- it used to be much more white. it's grown more diverse over the

decades. this particular high school, about half of the students are black. so it's one of the even more diverse district schools in the district. and so when parents, black parents in particular got this flyer in their mailbox, they saw it and to them it looked like this group was implying pretty directly that the school district had stopped disciplining black kids based on critical race theory principles and then kids got hurt. your kids are in danger. you look at the picture of the little white boy cowering in the school. they saw all of that and were outraged. it had the effect of enflaming racial and partisan divisions in this community ahead of a nonpartisan school board election. >> thank you for being that reporting. mike, good to see you. next up, our nbc news new interview with the star january 6th witness. how this long-time arizona republican is now fighting for his political life, next. w figh.

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governor of arizona. you have the state's current governor who can't run again because of term limits. so you have mike pence endorsing karen taylor robeson saying -- >> okay. former president trump on the other side of things, backing her opponent, a 2020 election denier. she's a big-time donald trump supporter. i want to bring in vaughn hillyard. this is an interesting race, one of those ones that people are looking at to see what is it going to tell us more on a national scale about donald trump and mike pence. and this week it's coming into focus with both candidates looking to have events this week. talk to us about what it's like on the ground, the expectation, et cetera. >> both of them. donald trump will be holding a rally for carry leak. and mike pence will take a border stop with robson. this is the situation where

arizona republican voters will be tasked with choosing in a man-to-man battle here. we have seen the likes of wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan governor races, which have been very muddied with several different candidates in the mix here. of course, you have the georgia governor's and you have the georgia governor's race and mike pence showed up with brian kemp there and think, brian kemp was an incumbent. this is a situation in which really it's going to be arizona republican voters who are deciding which road do they want to go down. you have karrin taylor robson who has the backing of former vice president pence and governor doug ducey and jan brewer ands on the other hand you have the likes of carrie lake who is a trump acolyte and an election denier and she was known as a respected voice here and she is someone who has gone

to the far right here, but i want to let you look at the polling because this is why these next two weeks ahead of the august 2nd primary because kari lake has been the front-runner throughout the year and a half. karrin taylor robson has put millions behind her candacy and this will be in the weeks to come in the proxy battle and this will be the duel in the desert and it will be the chance for mike pence, the doug ducey, the chair of the republican governor national association to really stake the claim that the republican party, republican voters not democrats, but republican voters are looking to move beyond donald trump. this is that chance for them. >> vaughn hilliard, perhaps nobody knows arizona at msnbc news like you, my friend. thank you for being on top of it. also in arizona, rusty bowers, remember him? he's telling msnbc news that it would take a miracle to win re-election. you might remember his emotional testimony in front of congress

about the very intense pressure that he faced from donald trump to try to change the results of the 2020 election. if he were to win, right, bowers here it would show republicans could publicly cross the former president in a very high-profile way and still hang on to their seat and if he doesn't win and he says it's a miracle if he does, the opposite. i want to bring in msnbc news political reporter allen smith and it's great to see you as always. based on the reporting that you've done, do you think bowers is right here? talk to you what it would mean for the gop if he were to win after what he did so publicly in that setting talking about the former president? >> great to be with you again, hallie. coming back from arizona here. it's very clear this testimony is weighing heavily on voters' minds as they're making a decision in this race. this is really the only test of whether a republican can testify before the january 6th panel and survive a primary. this is happening weeks after his testimony, it's still very fresh in voters' minds here and

it's putting a number of things to the test. if he is able to pull this out, it will be another example of an incumbent being able to fend off a primary opponent endorsed by the former president. the difference here is he's actually running for a different offers. he's running for the state senate or he's currently the house speaker, but people in his district have known him for a while and this is the thing that's playing to his advantage if he were able to make it out. there are a lot of people in the district that have a personal relationship with him. i managed to speak to one voter in front of the grocery store here unprompted. the only person he would vote for on the ballot is rusty bowers because he knows him and the kind of man that he is. he needs independent-minded voters to know if they'll cast ballots for him and that will decide his fate here on august 2nd. >> it's a great piece and great interview on msnbc.com. thank you for being back here. we appreciate it. >> not too long ago we heard

from president biden's economic advisor about an issue that affects your life, gas. we talk so much with gas prices go up, up, up hitting $5 a gallon. guess what they're doing now? they're going down and he says he expects those price drops to continue. watch. >> we think it's reasonable to expect more gas stations to lower their prices in response to lower input costs and thus, barring unforeseen market disruptions to see average prices fall below $4 per gallon and more places in coming weeks. >> i am joined by cnbc senior analyst ron insana. >> we talked about when gas prices hit $5 a lie and it was the lead to another show and it was a big deal. do you share jared bernstein's optimism that we may see gas prices under $4 in most states in the weeks ahead. >> again, barring unforeseen circumstances and oil happens to be up $4 a barrel and that could be slightly problem attic and

we've been down $33, as oil has moved $125 a barrel and those input costs that jared talked about mean that gas stations will, in fact, have some maneuvering room to lower prices going forward and the switch in oil prices to gasoline prices and it's also downward pressure over the last month, month and a half that we've seen in oil that should, at least for the moment have pressure to the down side and we're somewhere between summer driving season. >> because he's right, gas prices have been going down over the last month and is that a leading indicator to you in any sense that perhaps it's a good sign for, like, the recession outlook and that recession watch? >> well, you have to flip that around. it's a good sign for inflation and the question is is there what they like to call the economic world demand structure. does the price of oil get so high that people are curtailing their purchases of gasoline and

is that because the economy is slowing and the fed raises interest rates. so it's a double-edged sword and on the one hand it's very good news for inflation and good news for consumers and gives them more disposable income, but the question is are they slowing those purchases because the economy's getting weaker and it will take some weeks to some mothers to figure that out. >> ron insana. thank you very much for being here with us. >> i think you have a call coming in. >> no, it's an emergency alert. >> thank you for the breakdown and thank you for watching this hour on msnbc. thank you for watching hallie on msnbc and watch us for show number two at 5:00 eastern. "deadline: white house" with nicole wallace starts right after the break. house" with nicole wallace starts right after the break.

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♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. a startling revelation by the january 6th select committee just days ahead of a prime time hearing focused on one of the biggest questions still surrounding the deadly capitol insurrection. what, if anything, does donald trump actually doing while a mob of his supporters breached the u.s. capitol and sent lawmakers as well as his own vice president running for their lives? one of the two republicans on the 1/6 committee adam kinzinger telling cbs news that the committee has, quote, filled in the blanks on that very question. here's what