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believes you have to basically burn the system down to rebuild it and fix it. >> steve bannon on trial in the first of several major developments this week related to the capitol insurrection. right now the secret service is getting ready to hand over subpoenaed text messages as the january 6th committee gets red for thursday's primetime hearing on the 187 minutes when trump did nothing to quell the violence. in uvalde, texas it was 77 minutes that police, hundreds of them, did nothing has children were being murdered. what a damning report reveals about policing in uvalde and beyond. we begin with a day in court for steve bannonch the right wing podcaster and one-time adviser to the twice-impeached former president. his trial for contempt of congress got under way today. jury selection wrapped just a short time ago after two last-minute attempts by bannon's team to delay the trial, including an offer to testify

before the january 1th committee. narrowing the jury pool from the 22 eligible jurors will resume tomorrow. bannon faced two misdemeanor contempt charges for his refusal to comply with an order to turn over records to the committee. true to form after today's proceedings wrapped, the podcaster said he's looking forward to tomorrow and then he attacked the committee's work. >> i think it would have been more productive if we were on capitol hill in front of open mics addressing the nation with exactly all this nonsense this, show trial that they have been putting up on capitol hill. it's nothing but had a show trial. it's time they start having other witnesses that can give other testimony other than what they have been putting up, and so we'll see you here tomorrow morning. want to thank the judge, thank everybody >> bannon did not offer to turn over documents and last week the committee laid out two key reasons why he's on their witness list. >> the committee has learned

from the white house phone logs that the president spoke to steve bannon, his close adviser, at least twice on january 5th. the first conversation they had lasted for 11 minutes. listen to what mr. bannon said that day after the first call he had with the president. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it's all converging, and now we're on, as i say, the point of attack. >> the committee is also seeking other communications from january 5th and 6th subpoenaing the united states secret service over deleted text messages from those two days. the agency has been asked to provide the committee with those records by tomorrow. those deleted texts could provide key information for witnesses to the former president's behavior, not least wit alleged altercation between trump and two secret service agents in an suv described by white house aide cassidy hutchinson. the committee is wrapping up for a blockbuster hearing on

thursday focusing on the former president's 187 minutes of inaction as the mob laid siege to the capitol. one of the members leading thursday's hearing, republican adam kinzinger says the committee will fill in those blanks. >> this is going to open people's eyes in a big way. the reality, is i'll give you this preview, the president didn't do very much but gleefully watched television during this time frame. we're going to present a lot more than that, but i can only imagine -- i mean, i knew what i felt like as a u.s. congressman. if i was a president sworn to defend the constitution, that includes the legislative branch, watching this on television, i know i would have been going ballistic to try to save the capitol. he did quite the opposite. >> the other member leading thursday's hearing democrat elaine luria who like kinzinger is a military veteran says the committee will provide a minute-by-minute accounting. >> not only was it a situation not doing anything. the infamous tweet at 2:24, he

actually egged on by saying vice president pence did have the courage to do the right thinking? i look at it as a dereliction of act. he had a duty to act. we will address that in a lot of detail. >> she also said the panel will present more testimony from former white house counsel pat cipollone and new witnesses that we haven't heard from. yet another sign that the committee is zeroing in on the former president's inner circle, especially in the lead up to the 6th the committee will interview garrett ziegler, a former aide to trusted adviser peter navarro, tomorrow. that's relevant because the members of the so-called team crazy, michael flynn and sidney powell showed up at the white house for the december 8 meeting to push the voter fraud story line. that aide garrett ziegler let them in. in the wee hours of the morning following that meeting, the former president sent out the now infamous be there. it will be wild tweet summoning the mob to washington on the 6th. all the more reason that the former president should be

concerned about his legal liability even as he's reportedly preparing to announce a 2024 presidential run. according to a new "rolling stone" report he's planning to run to run away from various legal troubles. in recent months he's made clear that the legal protections of occupying the oval office are front of mind people with none of the situation telling "rolling stone." trump acknowledges potential problems and said something like prosecutors couldn't get away with this while i was president. with me now paul butler, professor at georgetown law school and kurt bardella adviser to the dddnv. trump upses he's much less likely to be indict federal he's a candidate for president. the already cautious merrick garland probably would not go after him if he were running or am i getting that wrong?

>> well, what you're getting right is that trump is trying to play garland by speeding up his announcement about running for president and then if trump is prosecuted he will say it's the biden administration going after him to help biden win re-election. merrick garland should not fall for that. the attorney general will make the decision about whether to prosecute trump in consultation with career lawyers and my former squad, the public integrity section of the united states department of justice based on the guidelines that they use in every case. joy, running for president is not a defense to a crime. if trump is not held accountable in criminal court, the message sent is that a president can commit the most serious crimes, even sedition and get away with it. >> and that is -- that is the challenge, right? of course, kurt, donald trump doesn't care about the law or anything like that, you know, he

hopes that he can get back in office and clear away everything by taking care of the justice department like he tried to do before, but i wonder if he's got to be wondering to him who is loyal. the people in the meetings, december 18 is the one where the so-called crazies were there, sidney powell, michael flynn and the overstock guy and people said who are you, meadowses, cipollone and others saying this is ban nas crazy and shouldn't be done. he has to wonder who is loyal. so far trump's people have stuck with him. peter navarro declined a pretty decent plea offer. he could now face more jail time because he wouldn't take a please, and i guess trump has ton wondering how many people are like that maybe he gets back in office and pardons them. >> well, that's clearly the plan, right? i mean, everything that we're seeing from donald trumpville is trying to regain the reps of

power so he can pardon himself and his accomplices for his crimes and as paul just said running for president doesn't exonerate you from your crimes. it's not a cloak or a shield that can be used. what needs to happen is the prosecutors need to just gather the evidence and decide whether they have the goods to charm him or not and make that decision independent and then there's the political theater that we'll see. donald trump, steve bannon, these people, they are not shy or afraid to try to weaponize the campaign process in order to keep themselves out of prison. steve bannon has made it pretty clear that that's his play for the entire time. that's why it's so important of the trial beginning with his consent of congress proceeding for accountability. if there is is accountable and steve bannon goes to jail that will tell every single person who thinks they are going to stand by donald trump they have to rethink that because i don't think there's anybody that is willing to spend one day in jail for donald trump because we know with donald trump loyalty is not a two-way street. he would throw all of them under a bus to avoid any kind of

accountability. you have to think it would probably be the same if the shoe were on other fight. >> ask michael cohen how that normally works out. let me ask you about that. steve bannon said let me get in there and do my theatrical stuff, a message for donald trump, which the justice department is in the going to let him do, pollutors ain't going to let him doing. maybe he wasn't in on the planning for the insurrection, but he did seem to know all hell would break loose, and he said that the day before. >> yeah. so if bannon had done what anybody else would be legally required to do, show up and tell the truth, the house investigation would have been advanced. we already know bannon and trump spoke twice on january 6th. it was after one of those conversations that bannon said all hell will break loose and we know bannon was in the insurrection war room on january 6th, but at this point, joy, the

trial is not about trying to force bannon to cooperate. now prosecutors just want bannon punished for deliberately ignoring a congressional subpoena. >> let's talk about the. [ speaking french ] you know, who there are these stories, some reporting that there were ultra ultra loyalists to trump and this is what congresswoman lofgren had to say in what they are looking for in terms of the deadline for the secret service to turn over all the data. >> we need a all the texts from 59th and 6th of january. i was shocked to hear that they didn't back up their data before they reset their iphones. that's crazy. i don't know why that would be, but we need to get this information to get the full picture. >> you know, kurt, it is surprising i think to a lot of people that anyone would take risks with there dreers, with

potential prosecution for this guy, but you now have questions whether someone from the secret service or someone therein deleted data and texts which seems completely uning him had had and who donald trump is and his lack of loyalty to anyone. >> yeah. i mean, i would encourage everybody watching to go check out "washington post," carol leoney has a book about some of the scannedalities of the secret service, an administration that's been plagued with scandal, after scandal after scandal. there's certainly people doing things like obstructioning evidence, lying to congress and the committee needs to get to the bottom of it and the secret service should comply immediately with the congressional subpoena and if they don't it begs the question what are they trying to hide? anyone this close to the president and anyone that's responsible for the safety and

the security of the president could potential police involved in destroying evidence related to a domestic terrific attack. that's a very terrifying process. i then that it shows there's reason why certain things were done and a reason why certain data may not be where it is. if that's the case they need to be exposed and dealt. >> paul, we've gotten the liz cheney tease maybe we'll find out on thursday who the witnesses are who could the the calls from trump. there seems to be so much that the department of justice is digging into and we do know bonnie -- he's asking questions of representative heiss at one of the meetings at the white

house, one of the people speaking about what to do about the georgia election. his lawyer is complaining that any contact that he made with georgia officials about the election results was part of his job in congress. it was part of his oversight role as a member of congress. that doesn't sound like that's going to wash and members of the congress and senate, thinking about lindsey graham, ought to be worried about her. >> certainly, lindsey graham needs to worry about her. he went to georgia and is directly implicated in that case in which donald trump committed a crime in georgia on audio tape, and so i frankly doubt if any house members are going to be held accountable by merrick garland but our nation turns its lonely eyes to the district attorney of fulton county who even if garland doesn't bring trump to justice maybe she will. >> it is -- it is hard to believe -- it's hard to believe,

kurt, that in a sense donald trump -- it feels like he has more to fear from the district attorney in georgia than he does from merrick garland, and i just wond, i know you talk to a lot of democrats, what's the level of frustration at this point among d.c. democrats with the department of justice? >> well, i think you have to almost go back and look at what happened to hillary clinton to fully appreciate why so many democrats are frustrated right now with just the overall investigative and law enforcement process that's played out when it comes to donald trump. hillary clinton, of course, didn't commit a single crime at all, has never been found to be committing any crime at all and yet the mere appearance of it pretty much detonate her presidential campaign at the 11th hour because of the fbi and here we have donald trump who has committed crimes on tape and isn't really trying to hide that fact or conceal it and he's still walking free without any real consequence or account

ability. it's just kind of mind-bogling. remember saying when he could go out and shoot somebody in the sidle of times square and nothing would happen. that's bearing out right now. hopefully that's not the case. i hope he's held to account and that's the ultimate way we evaluate that period of time. >> your periodic reminder that all the committee can do is all the great investigative work that you are doing. it's up to the department of justice that he's going to be held accountable. >> up next on "the reidout," the damning new report on the uvalde school massacre and what it tells about the unaddressed policing problems in america. "the reidout" continues right after this. america "the reidout" continues right after this even ice cream is like whooping cough, it's not just for kids. sometimes followed by vomiting and exhaustion.

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uvalde. the egregious failures were the fact that there were 376 law enforcement officers on site as teachers and children laid dying with no one from law enforcement making a move on the shooter for nearly 73 minutes. let me say that again. 376 good guys with guns were present and did not stop one bad guy with a gun. as the texas tribune points out, it was a force larger than the garrison that defended the alamo. the report details how no one took command and what was glaringly clear was that law enforcement first responders, law enforcement responders failed to adhere to their active shooter training, and they failed to prioritize saving the lives of innocent victims over their own safety. following the report the ifld mayor released body cam video from officers at the school that day. while some show school law enforcement outside helping to evacuate children out of classroom windows, it also showed those in the hallway right outside the classroom

where the shooter was, waiting, and waiting seemingly unsure what to do. it even shows the much criticized uvalde district police chief pete arredondo not trying to break down the door but rather trying to negotiate with the shooter. >> let me know if there's any kids in there or anything. this could be peaceful. >> we also learned from the body cam footage that at least some of the officers were aware that children inside that classroom were alive and calling 911 for help. >> we have a child on the line. >> what was that? >> [ indecipherable audio ] >> and yet it still took these

overs -- it still took these nearly 400 officers more than an hour to take out one shooter. here's where the disconnect kicks in because we're led to believe from tv shows and movies that the role of the police is to bust in and save the day. but more often than not in the real world what actually happens is that police in these situations go to their training which is to prioritize self-preservation. in another example today was the start of the sentencing trial for the gunman in the 2018 parkland school shooting in florida where 17 students and staff members were killed. if recall there was an armed resource school officer that day but when the shooting started he ran in the opposite direction and what also happens in most cases is often the threat has been cleared before law enforcement even arrived at the scene like what happened last night in indiana where a gunman who opened fire in a mall killing three people in the food court was shot and killed by a civilian, and then there are all

the situations where there's no actual threat where police do not hesitate to use their weapons as appears to be the case with jalen walker where eight ohio police officers emptied their clips into walker as he ran away from them after a brief high speed chase after a traffic stop. over the weekend the medical examiner somehow failed to test walker's hands for gunshot residue so all we have is the word of the department which let's face it has an interest in the outcome. what we do know from the medical examiner's report is that the unarmed door dash driver suffered 46 gunshot wounds, 46. texas state representative james telerico joins me now along with former detroit police chief godfrey. representative, i want to have you start. having more law enforcement officers than forces at the

alamo, seemingly confused what to do, standing around, milling around, they did manage to threaten to arrest people outside including parents who were trying to go in and do it and go into the room and go into the classroom, but they didn't do the things people expect. what do you make of this report and its results and its findings? >> joy, i am -- i'm so full of rage at this story, at this report. i was a middle schoolteacher before i ran for office, and my students were a little bit older than those babies in uvalde. this report shows that uvalde had everything republicans claim we need. we had bun dreads of good guys with a gun. we had hardened security. we had a reduced number of doors. the only thing those students and those teachers in uvalde didn't have was sane gun policy. you know, we as a country are not an outlier in school

security. we're not an outlier in mental health. we are an outlier in the number of readily accessible weapons of war, and until we address, that we're never going to protect our children and our educators. you know, as a teacher, i can say that nothing will ever change. nothing, until we love our children more than we love our guns. >> there's been a lot of criticism of the governor, of greg abbott, including your fellow state senator roland gutierrez. this is what he had to say about governor abbott. take a look. >> since day three he hasn't been back to uvalde, and he's refused to ask for any kind of accountability here and he's done nothing but put obstacles with the district attorney and other people he put in place. never went to a single funeral. he's never come back. >> essentially accusing him of shading the truth. he came out and lied festooned

with police officers all around him and told a story that wasn't true and hasn't been to a single funeral. your thoughts about the governor's response. >> you know me well and try to be careful with what i say but texans are dying. the kids in uvalde, the teachers in uvalde, the hundreds who died during the blackout last year, the texans who died needlessly from covid-19 because our governor chose to open bars too early in the pandemic, greg abbott is the greatest public safety threat in our state. he is the greatest public safety threat to texans right now so we need to elect beto o'rourke our next governor. i don't say that as a governor as a member of the blue team. i say that as a texan who wants to see my constituents, my neighbors kept safe. that's -- that's what is at stake in this election. this is beyond party politics. this is about public safety in every sense of the word.

>> right. you know, i want to bring you in here, chief, because we spoke with a couple of people this morning so i'll take you into our conversation. "rolling stone" wrote about what police officers officers do. they say the police officer's ability to prevent crime is basically zero. the part of the job police are good at is projecting physical force on whatever segment of the society that they deem unacceptable. he said police aren't bad at everything but police are really good at projecting force on civilians who are not really a threat to then. that's what happened to uvalde. outside of the school they were pushing people around. inside when it comes to face gunshots, police don't really do that, right? only 1%, 2%, 3%, 4% of what miss

do is responding to violent assault in which they could get shot. >> joy, that article again is probably a similar article describing what the state of policing is in america. joy, there's a saying we had when i ran recruiting. some police are meant to call the police and some people are meant to be the police. we have a lot of people meant to be a police and never ever have a badge or a gun. the hypersensitivity to perceive threat over the actual response to actual crime committed is so disproportionate, and it goes to training. it goes to who we select as police officers. unfortunately, detroit, we buried today with someone who ran to the danger, killed with a semiautomatic weapon. that's the best of police when we respond and respond in that way. unfortunately, joy, we just don't see that enmars and we have to look at policy. we have to look at laws.

there's a level of cowardice here and just miss manage president of this situation. you talk to police executives across the country and police officers, it's literally embarrassing, someone getting hand san tires. how do you have the cognition to think about germs on your hands when you have children literally being slaughtered in the midst of 367 police officers and no one is in charge? since september 11th, 2001, the nims systems says about how you handle a scene when something is going on, the protocols after columbine with active shooters. you engage the shooter and eliminate the shooter as quickly as possible. everything that could have gone wrong went wrong and texas has a lot to answer for relative to that, and that goes to the

leadership of the governor can't push that on anybody else. he has to own this because he's the one -- he's the one that's holding the steering wheel and yet he's the one who gave the bad information. joy, so many things that are embarrassing relative to what an appropriate response should have been to this shooting incident in uvalde. >> i want to pint point out that texas spends $8.7 billion on policing. really quickly because we're out of time, chief. in the case of indiana, as of july 1st it's a constitutional carry state. police know if they are going into a situation they could be facing with their .9 millimeters they could be facing someone with an ar-15. police know they are outgun. firefighters are trained to run into a burning building. police officers, the training isn't to run into the fire of an ar-15. police will shoot saying they saw a flash in the car with jalen walker and just let it

off. we have a disconnect with what we think police do. >> it's a complete disconnect and we're not super heroes. it goes right to gun laws. that's the common denominator. if we don't ban assault weapons and police officers will be very reticent to engage. >> thank you both very much. we'll be right back. >> thank you bot "shake your thang" by salt n pepa if you have this... consider adding this. we'll be right back. edicare doe. and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this.

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there is a lot going on in the united states and around the world, especially in ukraine where vladimir putin continues his violent assault on innocent civilians. one of those victims 4-year-old liz whoorks had down's syndrome was filmed by her mom walking to speech therapy moments before she was killed by a russian missile in. an open coffin funeral for this tine child was held on sunday. her mother who was wound remains in intensive care. the family did not tell her that lizza was being buried sunday fearing it could affect her condition. the priest overseeing her burial openly wept and said that eternal hell awaited those who murdered lizza. the ukranian stay far from the front lines was considered relatively safe until thursday when the russian missiles killed at least 24 people, including lizza and two boys ages 7 and 8. more than 200 were wounded. putin's brutality is not slowing

down. earlier today ukranian officials said that russian targeted shelling killed at least four civil yaps and wound 13 more. the russian military has declared a goal of cutting off ukraine's entire black seacoast effectively strangling its ability to control key ports central to its economy and the world's supply of grain. former russian president dmitry medvedev warned ukraine any resistance would result in a, quote, doomsday scenario. meanwhile the dictator behind all this violence vladimir putin is set to meet tomorrow with iran's supreme leader and the new president in a bid to shore up ties with one of america's older adversaries. i'm joined now by the former adviser to ukranian president volodymyr zelenskyy. i want to get to your point of view. there's a sense that rush went through a period of extreme naked brutality and war crimes to be blunt and then i guess from way outside looking in it's

like the war kind of settled into a horrible stasis. where are we on the level of extreme brutality and awful stasis? >> well, joy, it's -- it's turned into terrorism. it's not even a war anymore because, you know, seeing that little girl pushing her stroller and in that video she's asking her mornings mom, where are we going and then seeing her in the dead in the street like 13 minutes, that just broke my back emotionly. you know, to me, she's the girl in the red dress from "schindler's list" and her killer is not only putin or the soldier who pulled the trigger. it's a world of people who care about children living and those who don't. we're seeing pure brutality.

there's fighting at the front line and there are claims of an operational pause but we're seeing acts of brutality. a few hours ago they september a missile into odessa hitting civilians again. >> this is a "new york times" piece. this is by a non-resident scholar at carnegie. putin thinks he's winning. he's thing he's forcing kyiv to exit late as the deukranianization and russianification of the country. capitulation and exhaustion would force the collapse of a weakened government and building a new order where pro-putin western democracies redeem russia and overlook its atrocities. that sounds like the talk of a madman. inside ukraine and the government, what do you think -- who are they negotiating with at this point because it doesn't seem like he's in his rational mind? >> well, at the moment negotiations aren't happening so

obviously people want to believe in diplomacy but to understand putin's end game, let me give you a good example. imagine like a mass shooter with a loaded gun walking into a school, killing everyone and if you don't stop him, he's going to move on to the next. he's made up his mind, so there are only two potential outcomes. he runs out of bullets or he is stopped so in a sense like you have to understand that's what ukraine is facing. you know, that's why we keep calling on the world to kind of designate russia as a state sponsor of terrorism to give us the weapons needed to stop him because, unfortunately, for everyone, he's not going to stop here. he's a mad man. he's going to keep going until he runs out of bullets or until he's stopped. >> finland is now joining nato. nato got bigger as a result of what he did, and this is what he had to say. this is the foreign minister. he says the mood in ukraine changed to very bitter after the worst human rights violation of the russian military and, of course, it's clear at some

moment the war will end but it's very clear we have to maintain our support. there is a sense that russia can never redeem itself but they now also have iran which reportedly is thinking about selling them things. they are not completely isolated. is there some other thing that europe or the west could be doing? >> well, i mean, we need to get everyone behind ukraine united and all over the world there are examples of people who just don't care or people who support russia openly. it just blew my mind that likely the rally a few days ago, for example, tucker carlson, said, i don't care what putin does in ukraine and he's a father of four. look, i'm a father and to me it's horrible, a, seeing any kid die is a tragedy and that's the world we should be building for our kids but, unfortunately, there are many people in the world who just don't care, people who want to go about their daily lives and try and pretend it doesn't concern them. let me remind you russia it full of billboard all over the country that says alaska is

ours, so, you know, that's how it started for us, and that guy is not going to stop, unfortunately. >> yeah, well, you did mention somebody who demonstrably doesn't care about anything or anyone. thank you very much, igor. we really appreciate you next. the reversal of "roe v. wade" has shined a big glaring spotlight on some of the existing state laws that strip women of their privacies and freedoms. we'll be back in a sec. their pd freedoms we'll be back in a sec as someone living with type 2 diabetes, i want to keep it real and talk about some risks. with type 2 diabetes

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in the few weeks since the elimination of roe, the utterly harrowing dystopian outcomes are already crashing down. 44 state now prohibit abortions after a certain point in pregnancy, and more bans are expected in the coming weeks. the bans are extreme making no exceptions for rape or incest, and, now brace yourself here, idaho republicans have rejected an amendment to their party platform that would have allowed abortion to save a pregnant woman's life. in post-roe america women are denied abortion and reproductive medicine and care. a woman told the "new york times" that a hospital declined to perform the standard surgical procedure when she had a miscarriage. this was after the restrictive abortion law took effect in texas. instead, the hospital sent her home with instructions to return only if her bleeding filled a diaper more than twice -- more than once an hour. women of child-bearing age are

getting denied access to medication because it can cause miscarriage or ectopic medication, necessary medications for heart conditions and lupus. this sends a clear message that women are not to be trusted to make decisions, even about their own bode bodies and their lives which is why many policies continue to seize their options sum as some doctors requiring a husband's consent to get your tubes tied. back in 2020 a woman's story about needing her husband's consent for needing a tubal ligation went viral. it's not as private us a think. some hospitals are still enforcing it and last year in missouri women who are pregnant cannot get a divorce. that is because courts did not finalize or grant a divorce

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[acoustic soul music throughout] [acoustic soul music throughout] [acoustic soul music throughout] [acoustic soul music throughout] >> the leaders of the naacp,

together we have fought hard to move forward. and yet, we must recognize, there are those who are fighting to drag us backward. extremists, so-called leaders, who are attempting to undermine

our democracy, and assault our most fundamental freedoms. >> today, vice president kamala harris, alluded to republican letter, to restrict abortion access, making the point that they want us back, and i mean way, back. so, joining me now is rhea tobacco, director of the aclu women's rights project. and thank you so much for being here. i want to go through this because this week, it was very illuminating, and learning some of the things that women are literally cannot be doing on their own. the case of the woman who was denied an abortion, and she had had a miscarriage, the one i read in the open it is one, and the previous block is one. here is another. this is a texas woman was denied a miscarriage, from cnn, texas abortion law prevented her from getting timely miscarriage care. she carried her that fetus for two weeks, until she found a doctor who would help her. now, she and her husband are contemplating moving away from texas away from their extended family, just to try to get

pregnant again, because she's afraid to get pregnant in texas. the previous case that i read about, but i spoke about earlier was a woman was told she needed to fill two diapers with blood. that's how much she needed to bleed before they would treat her. are there any legal protections for women who seem to be, essentially being told, you're gonna have to be near dead before giving you an abortion, to treat a miscarriage? >> the answer is yes, joy. but we know that will become led states are fighting those protections tooth to nail. but we've heard this onslaught of horrific stories in the last three weeks, and i need to understand as the suffering that you've just described. and i use that word, suffering, because that is the word that the supreme court justices who resisted overturning roe, that is the word they used, right? closing our eyes to the suffering while not making go away. and we're not close our eyes. that's why we need to tell these stories. the biden administrations has said, look, when someone shows up in the emergency room, and they have a complication, a pregnancy serious condition,

infection, even death, you have to treat those patients. and what we've seen the states do, we've seen the state of texas so biden ministration claiming, hey, we don't have to do that. we want the right to deny someone lifesaving medical care. >> and you know, the end of roe has sort of illuminated some of the other limitations domes rights. the fact that in missouri, women cannot get a divorce, if they are pregnant until they give birth to the child, because missouri views a fetus as a life for the purposes of restricting abortion, but not alive for the purposes of getting a divorce. it's like, somebody on twitter said is like shrouding her fetus. it's a life only to the extent that it can limit women's rights. how can those two things be true? >> well, it's possible to separate the fight for abortion, from the subjugation of women. i think you put it perfectly in the intro, joy. this is about subjugating woman. this is about subjugating our bodily autonomy, and our ability to live our lives as full and free humans. the supreme court wants to take

us back to 1868. they said that in the opinion, right? i'm not making things up. this is six members of the united states court, saying we think the proper way to the constitution as we look into who had rights in 1868? well, guess what? some people have always had the right to determine when and where to form a family, who to marry, when to have children, right? those people were not on. they did not include the majority of us. and so, now, the question is, who among us will be able to hold on to those rights, but we've been enjoying for the last 50 years? >> missouri, i want to note here, missouri governor mike parson on thursday said that he would not call a special session to pass legislation to protect access to contraceptives. and we build on that, because he really actually doesn't care on that, yet in mississippi, the speaker saying that he would not allow abortions for a 12 year old incest victim, but that would have their baby. last question to you, microbial has said he would now like to have child support we can get a moment of conception.

what kind of legal minefield cut that open? >> i think his proposal was absolutely too cute, you know? this idea that somehow, actually banning abortion is going to help women. but we know that's not how we help women, and that's not how we further our freedom, right? it's about trusting each of our selves to make the right decisions, the decisions that are right for us, not the government. >> and at the bottom line is, if you did that, then what would happen if there was a miscarriage? you get through the pregnancy, you've gotten child support, well, one of the person is an abuser? would that person then have a right to the citation of the fetus? because that means visitation of a woman, right? >> i mean marco rubio once to invite the state even further into surveilling women's lives. and we know who is going to fall harshly on. it's gonna fall on black women, other women were subjected to daily surveillance. the scrutinizing shunts of the way they won their families, we don't need to invite the government into our families anymore. >> and i highly doubt that there are a lot of men out there that are relishing the

idea that the government could begin garnishing their wages at conception, regardless of how that pregnancy turns out. marco rubio says you need to start writing checks, so that's how that works out, if they even tried to enforce it. rhea, and do so much. and it's gonna tweet out. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in -- >> all i know about that day is that he was in the dining room, briefly that gleefully watching on his tv, as they often did, looking at the people fighting, hitting rewind, watching it again. >> the committee prepares for the next hearing. the trial of steve bannon begins in washington, and new reporting on donald trump's plan to run for office so he can keep running from the law. then, meet the second member of congress who was getting a subpoena over georgia election interference. plus, the head of the american medical association on the unseen reality of post roe america. and as paris boils and