we appreciate that and appreciate you being with us again this morning. certainly, democrat in a neighboring state, joe manchin, remains in the spotlight this week, submarining, again, president biden's agenda late last week. now suggesting that maybe he is open to some sort of deal. but white house aides i talked to on the subject last night, let's just say, not holding their breath. right now, pursuing a skinny deal and perhaps climate change provisions via executive order. we'll talk about that, as well as the upcoming january 6th hearings here on "morning joe," starting in a moment. thanks so all of you getting up "way too early" with us on this tuesday. we're going to "mj" right now. we are a nation of laws. and if a person breaks the law or is accused of breaking the law, he's not one who can just do what he chooses because he is running for president. so donald trump is just like

every other american citizen in this situation. >> that was the chairman of the january 6th select committee, bennie thompson, weighing in on the report that former president trump plans to run for president again to help him avoid criminal charges. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." we've got a lot to get to on this tuesday, july 19th. in a moment, we're going to talk about the two trump white house officials who will testify in thursday's primetime hearing by the january 6th committee, as the panel shifts its focus to the three hours of inaction by former president trump during the attack on the capitol. plus, a defendant without a defense? opening arguments in steve bannon's contempt trial get under way in a few hours, despite the judge dismissing almost all of bannon's legal options. meanwhile, senator lindsey graham is fighting a subpoena in

georgia, but the court documents only refer to him as mr. graham. we'll explain why that's significant. dozens of devastated and furious members of the uvalde community lashed out at the school board, demanding new leadership and the firing of the school district's police chief. the contentious meeting in texas came after the release of a damning report and dramatic body cam video. we'll talk about that. over in the senate, joe manchin is now claiming he has not written off any key parts of president biden's domestic agenda. where did that come from? we'll have the latest on where the negotiations stand now. and we are dealing with extreme heat in parts of the u.s., but it is nothing like what's happening overseas. we're talking about temperatures never felt by humans in the uk. what does it all mean? what is being done about it, and how does climate change, of course, play into all of that?

along with joe and me, we have the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. also with us, prize-winning columnist and associate ed to have of the "washington post" and msnbc analyst, eugene robinson. we're going to start with the latest on the january 6th information. nbc news confirmed two witnesses expected to testify for thursday's primetime hearing. former national security member matthew pottinger. and press secretary sarah matthews will sit before lawmakers for the final public hearing on the schedule. pottinger, whose resignation was announced one day after the capitol attack, has already spoken to the committee for video recorded testimony. among the things discussed there, according to the "new york times," was a visit he made to the oval office while the insurrection was under way.

although donald trump was in the white house, the dining room, actually, at the time, pottinger reportedly spoke to former chief of staff mark meadows about efforts to deploy the national guard to the capitol, which would seem obvious. matthews also resigned in the wake of the insurrection and has been vocal in her criticism of trump's actions since then. she has also voiced her support for her former colleague, cassidy hutchinson, who delivered that damning testimony before the panel last month. thursday's hearing is expected to focus on what the committee members are calling trump's dereliction of duty and give a minute-by-minute account of the former president's actions or inactions during the insurrection. >> jonathan lemire, you obviously covered the white house during this time. matthew pottinger, going to be fascinating. former "wall street journal"

reporter. he usually got policy right, was a steadying hand for the trump administration. also is one of the few very early on, before the beginning of the year 2020, that saw covid coming. stayed on until the end, a loyalist. but january 6th was just too much. what can you tell us about him and what we should expect from the testimony? >> pottinger is a name, joe, that many in the audience will know because of the role he played in the early days of the pandemic. he is, as you said, a former "wall street journal" reporter, once based in china with a network of contacts there. it was the contacts, the sources he knew in china in late 2019 sounding the alarms on the virus, then early 2020, pottinger told the administration, hey, this is something we need to be concerned about. back when china itself, the government in beijing, was not being particularly forthcoming as to the state of this new

virus. pottinger spentntire -- spent four years in the trump administration. key member of the national security council. presence in terms of asia. he was in the building on january 6th. that is noteworthy because few senior aides were because of how hollowed out the trump west wing was at that point. people had resigned. people had left. it was two weeks before inauguration day. there had been a covid outbreak not long before, so people were home. pottinger was there. and we know from reporting that he tried to go into the oval office. he tried to see the president. he did see chief of staff mark meadows, telling them how dire things looked at the capitol, pleading for intervention. obviously, those cries fell on deaf ears for hours. he will probably give damning testimony when we hear from him thursday night in primetime. >> so the select committee is expected to issue a preliminary report later this year and may also hold more hearings. there is reporting that evidence

is still coming in, so they may have more hearings. committee chair bennie thompson told reporters last night, the panel intends to release a scaled-back, interim report in september. then a final report sometime after that. thompson said the committee will hold a public hearing on the scaled back report, and most likely another one after the full report is out. as for the hearings that have taken place so far, the recount has put together this one-minute compilation of the most important things we have learned. >> the claims of fraud were [ bleep ]. >> my sentiment probably prior, as well. >> ms. mceneny responded. >> we weren't finding anything. >> if i was trump and knew my rhetoric killed something. >> giuliani. >> they're not here to help me. let me people in. >> did rudy giuliani suggest he

was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6th? >> he did. mr. meadows did seek the pardon. >> asked for a pardon, too. >> stone communicated with both the proud boys and outkeepers. >> threw his lunch against the wall. >> dollars to the trump hotel collection. >> president trump tried to call a witness in our investigation. >> the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. >> you know, gene, that was just a little bit of it. obviously, i mean, those are highlights, but you can probably do ten minutes of highlights cut just like that. pretty remarkable. what i loved seeing in that one-minute compilation is i loved seeing all the people who were talking, these were trump's most loyal foot soldiers. they stayed with him through hydroxychloroquine. they stayed with him through

bleach. they stayed with him through hundreds of thousands dead after he lied one after another. he stayed with them through impeachment. they stayed with him through the lowest point. you know, charlottesville, the lowest points of the campaign, where he's telling his attorney general to arrest joe biden and joe biden's family. they stayed with him and were loyal. this is like when steve bannon is going outside of the courtroom, we need to hear the other side. this is the other side. we are not hearing from liberals and democrats. we're hearing not only from republicans, we're hearing from the trumpiest trump republicans that were left remaining in the white house. >> exactly. we're hearing from the people who stuck it out to the bitter end. that is what has made, i think, the committee's presentation so effective, is that it is not a

lineup of left-leaning democrats or rhinos or whatever anybody wants to call them. it is not a lineup of trump opponents telling about his crimes, let's be honest what they're talking about, but it is his most loyal people, the people who really stuck with him, at a time when, i think, most public servants would have said, you know, i can't take this anymore. >> right. >> bleach would have done it for a lot of people, but it didn't do it for these folks. so for them to be as strong and definitive in terms of describing their own horror and shock at what was happening on january 6th, and their disgust with the president's inaction

and, let's, again, call it what it is, the encouragement of the insurrection, is remarkable. i mean, these hearings have been the most compelling, limited television series of the summer, by far. i think that thursday is going to be a sort of blockbuster season ender for now. i do predict there will be more hearings as the investigation continues, as they get more information. >> opening -- then there is the issue of steve bannon. we are our opening arguments expected today in his contempt of congress trial, because he would not testify. first, both sides need to finish jury selection. justice correspondent pete williams has the details of the trial. >> reporter: from the moment the charges were filed, steve bannon vowed to turn the case into an attack on the january 6th committee, the democrats and the

biden administration. >> i'm telling you right now, this is going to be the misdemeanor from hell hr n for pelosi and joe biden. >> reporter: he is charged with contempt of congress for refusing to obey a subpoena from the committee for documents and testimony. he insists he couldn't comply, saying a lawyer for former president trump directed him not to, citing executive privilege. but the judge, nichols, a trump appointee, tossed out the defense, saying it is not at all clear that mr. trump's lawyer ever told him not to cooperate at all with the committee. the judge also ruled that bannon cannot argue he was following the advice of his lawyers or the justice department policies against subpoenaing administration officials applied to him. and bannon has been barred from calling member of congress as witnesses. the judge says that's irrelevant to whether he failed to honor the subpoena. >> bannon is pretty well out of defenses at this point, and really all the posturing we're

seeing, this is setting up an appeal down the road after he's convicted. it's not really about a trial defense. >> so if he has no defense and no -- i'm confused, joe, is it just to use this trial to do more showboating? isn't there the potential of going to jail here? >> yeah. i mean, he's running out of option. last year, he said it was going to be the misdemeanor from hell. talked about going medieval on everybody. we should pray for his enemies because they're going after him. he is going to be going after them hard. he was going to turn this into a show trial. the judge said, no, you're not. all the defenses he brought up, the trump-appointed judge said, no, those aren't defenses. so he is really at the end of the line. the only thing he seemed to do yesterday was weakly thank the jurors and say it looked like a fair selection of jury members. that's where we are right now.

i mean, it's cut and dry. all of this is cut and dry, from contempt, steve bannon's contempt, to the treason of the president of the united states. former president of the united states. of course, as the old book says, none dare call it treason, but this is straightforward. we saw it with our own eye on january 6th. we see it when these people, these trump sycophants decide they're not going to follow orders of the court. never ends up. former attorney for the district of columbia, now a legal analyst, glenn kirschner. he was in the courtroom for day one of steve bannon's trial and will be there throughout the proceedings. glenn, tell me what you saw. >> joe, a couple of overarching observations about yesterday's jury selection. one, there were lots and lots of

jurors who knew steve bannon. they knew him and had strong opinions about steve bannon, and they were comfortable expressing them. i will say, i sat in there almost the entire day. i may have missed one or two jurors. everybody who expressed an opinion about steve bannon had a negative opinion. many of them said some variation of the same thing. look, i don't have any specialized legal knowledge, but even i know, if i get a subpoena from congress, i need to comply or i'm wrong. i'm in trouble. several jurors actually came right out and said, i think steve bannon is guilty. not surprisingly, those jurors, particularly the ones who said, "i have such strong feelings that i don't think i can set them aside and be a fair and impartial juror" those jurors were excused by the judge. the other thing i'll say, joe, is there were just as many people who didn't seem to know anything about steve bannon. they didn't know the name. i'm going to say, sadly, many of them said, i don't know anything

about the january 6th select committee public hearings. i haven't watched any and, frankly, i didn't pay much attention to what happened january 6th. that was kind of surprising, that people could be so civically sort of disengaged. the problem becomes those jurors easily qualified to sit on steve bannon's jury. why? because they brought no preconceived notions into the trial with them. so when the jury selection dust settles first thing this morning before opening statements, i suspect we're going to see a number of those jurors seated who told the court they really don't know anything about this case. >> hey, glenn, it is jonathan lemire. disheartening to hear how many people don't know about january 6th. i'll resist asking how many shirts steve bannon was wearing at a time, and i'll ask about the timeline of the trial. once it gets rolling, how long do we think it'll take? what penalty, if bannon were to

be convicted, does he face? >> jonathan, the prosecutors at a previous hearing announced they thought they could get all of their evidence presented to the jury in their case in chief in about one trial day. i suspect the entire trial will last about two to three trial days. of course, you can never predict how long a jury will have to deliberate before resolving the case. the pennelpenalties he's facing counts of contempt of congress, one for refusing to testify, a second for refusing to produce documents. each count carries a maximum of one year but a minimum of 30 days in prison. so the judge, if he is convicted of both counts, could run the sentences consecutive to one another, on top of one another, and he could be facing two years in prison with a mandatory minimum of 60 days. >> glenn, steve bannon refused to testify and refused to produce the documents.

so this would seem to an outside observer, not a lawyer, a pretty open and shut case. what is bannon or could bannon realistically hope for here? is anything he does in court now looking toward an appeal? is he hoping for nullification, for maybe one juror who knows nothing about january 6th and would have doubts or who somehow is trumpy? what is he hoping for here? >> i think you are precisely right. i think he is looking to maybe pick off one or two jurors, hang the jury, and then force the government into having to make a decision. in the jury hangs, do we proceed to a retrial? this old prosecutor would say, yes, proceed to a retrial, given the nature of bannon's crimes against the united states. i'm going use a well-worn saying. when you have the facts on your side, pound on the facts. when you've got the law on your

side, pound on the law. when you've got neither on your side, just pound on the table. yesterday was a very quiet affair, but i suspect today we may see some table pounding by the defense authorities. i think that's all they have. i'm also keeping my eye out for anything medieval. there was nothing medieval that unfolded in court yesterday. i didn't see any catapults or cross bows or any such thing. >> weird. >> we'll see if steve bannon pulls anything medieval out of one of his many shirt pockets today. >> former assistant u.s. attorney for the district of columbia, glenn kirschner, thank you very much for being on this morning. see you soon. still ahead on "morning joe," it appears doing the right thing comes with political consequences. a republican lawmaker who testified before the january 6th committee says it will take a miracle for him to win re-election. plus, a rare split from former president trump by mike

pence. we'll tell you which election the former vice president is now getting involved in. and ukraine's first lady brings her country's cause to washington, d.c. more about her high-profile visit next on "morning joe." can slow me down. now, skyrizi helps me get going by treating my skin and joints. along with significantly clearer skin, visit next on "morning joe." with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after two starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi, 90% clearer skin and less joint pain is possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections

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24 past the hour. russia orders its troops to target long-range missiles and weapons recently provided to ukraine by western countries. moscow gave the order to a battalion currently fighting in the eastern donbas region. according to the russian defense ministry, targeting the western suppied missile systems will field russian troops from being

shelled. this comes after the pentagon approved an $820 million weapons package for ukraine earlier this month. meanwhile, ukraine's first lady, olena zelenska, is in washington, d.c. and will meet with first lady jill biden later today. zelenska's visit a series of high-profile meetings with american officials this week. she met with secretary of state antony blinken where the two discussed the human cost of russia's invasion on ukraine. officials say blinken assured her of america's commitment to the war-devastated country. zelenska will address congress on capitol hill tomorrow. white house chief medical adviser dr. anthony fauci will likely retire by the end of president biden's current term in office. fauci says he does not have the specific date in mind, but he told nbc news, quote, sometime between now and then, i likely will step down and move on to

the next phase in my professional career, whatever that may be. for the virus, dr. fauci has spent much of the last two years fighting, the subvariant continues to spread across the country. experts are not as worried as they were two years ago. some health officials are avoiding issuing new restrictions, hopeful that vaccines, treatments, and rising immunity will help fight the virus. but at least how states are seeing a rise in reinfections, especially in the great plains, west, and south. the number of people being hospitalized with the virus and those dying from it are also up. we'll be watching that. brutal heat wave is gripping much of the country this week, bringing misery to tens of millions of people who are suffering through oppressive triple digits. some numbers they've never felt before. it's turned deadly in europe.

nbc news national correspondent miguel almaguer has the details. >> reporter: shattering records and threatening lives, this is the brutal broil baking tens of millions. >> it's sweltering. what's the worst is there's no air moving. >> reporter: the blistering heat wave turning much of the nation into an oven. 141 million people experiencing temperatures above 90 degrees. 51 million sweltering in triple digits. >> i make sure to bring water, take breaks. >> reporter: setting records across much of the country, heat alerts for at least 20 states from california to mississippi. salt lake city tying their all-time high sunday, 107 degrees. memphis, houston, and san antonio having their hottest summers on record. >> without a doubt, it is a life and death situation. >> reporter: dallas hitting 106, where michael steed is suffering

from health problems and living on a fixed income could face a deadly summer. >> it'd have me over 100 degrees inside of the house. >> reporter: in fresno, california, where it will be triple digits all week, the fire department is responding to dozens of calls for heat exhaustion. >> how quickly can this weather turn deadly? >> you know, it could be, depending on your age, within a half hour. >> reporter: in scottsdale, a rain camera captured a delivery driver collapsing in the heat. record temperatures and historic draught also forcing cash-strapped cattle ranchers to sell their herds, which will drive up beef prices later this year. >> they're out of grass, out of water. nobody is making any hay. >> reporter: with drought also crippling europe, the uk is poised to be hotter than 99% of the planet. up to 30 degrees above average, forcing the closures of airport runways crumbling in the summer

weather. our nation already feeling the heat with the hottest weeks still to come. >> that was nbc's miguel almaguer with that report. joe, we're going to look at numbers in europe. this is, for some areas, apocalyptic. people are dying from the heat. >> yeah, it really is. record-breaking heat in texas. as we've heard. temperatures getting up well over 100. you actually had a meteorologist at ktrk, travis herzog was doing the 3:00 news and talking about the weather and said it was so hot that the power grid might not be able to handle it. while he was talking, the studio went dark. the texas power grid. >> frightening. >> once again not able to handle the crush here. can't handle the heat in texas. like you said in europe, people are dying.

the temperatures keep going up. records keep being broken. yet, we've seen one poll after another where -- >> i know. >> -- people are unmoved. congress is doing nothing, despite the fact we're in the middle of this dire crisis, which, you know, we're going to look back on 10, 20 years from now, if even that, and people are going to just ask, what the hell were we doing? why did we do nothing? >> this is often with many issues frustrating. i mean, we saw this with things like covid or other things, where it took a long time for people to see it. but this is right in our face. if you look at -- i mean, if you look what's going on in europe, get ready. temperatures in britain are expected to reach 104 degrees today. that's a peak for britain, according to the "washington post." not seen since modern recordkeeping began a century and a half ago. this comes the morning after the

country's warmest ever night. and record temperatures on monday, when flights were stopped at luton airport after heat melted the runway. hello. much of the uk is under its first warning of extreme heat, meaning there is danger of death even for healthy people. hot weather has gripped southern europe since last week, triggering wildfires in spain, portugal, and france. over 1,100 heat-related deaths have been reported in spain and portugal, as temperatures there have reached as high as 117 degrees. >> gene. >> this is called burning up. >> yeah, we're burning up. the planet is burning up, gene robinson. >> yeah. >> of course, idiots next week when temperatures go down will say, see, it's gone. we keep breaking records every year. this is undeniable.

>> right. >> again, americans are unmoved. congress is doing nothing. all i will say is that you hear from mika's script this, it is so hot in britain, cold, rainy britain, right where you worked, and i'm sure in july there were many days you were wearing an overcoat because it was raining. >> practically, yeah. >> it was so hot in britain yesterday, an airport runway melted. they had to stop flights. >> yeah. this is just ridiculous. the idea of triple digit temperatures in britain is absurd. it just doesn't happen. it certainly didn't happen when i was over there. as you say, you know, it's a july day, you could be putting on a sweater, certainly. the forecast, weather forecasts were always the same. either sunshine with periods of rain or rain with periods of sunshine. those were the only two

forecasts, but it was always cool. nobody in britain has air-conditioning because you don't need it. but you need it now. you're going to need it in the future. the thing is, this is tragic because this is going to get worse. we know it's going to get worse. we know this is not going away. it is getting worse and worse and worse, and we are doing nothing about it. it is -- we will be condemned and cursed by future generations for our stupidity in not addressing climate change, trying to arrest it, and not even effectively adapting to climate change, which is happening now. we're going to have to deal with this. if we stopped emitting carbon tomorrow, we'd have to deal with the accumulating carbon we've already put in the atmosphere

and the way it is warming the planet. we're doing basically none of that. it is just a tragedy. it really is. >> and it was only a couple of weeks ago that the g7 met in europe, in germany. g7 that was supposed to be dedicated to fighting climate change. having the seven wealthiest democracies band together with new climate change commitments. none of that happened. it was overshadowed by russia's invasion of ukraine and, in fact, more need for more fossil fuels to make up for the oil that is being taken away from the market because russia is -- no one is buying russian oil, at least not these democracies. that is putting in stark contrast here, even when an effort was made to combat climate change, derailed by other events. that's why, to the frustration of the biden white house, shifting domestically, they hoped in the reconciliation package they could pass through

democrats, that there will be climate change provisions. that's no longer going to happen because of west virginia senator joe manchin, who put the kabosh on that yesterday. he said, let's revisit this down the road. short-term issues getting in the way of long-term climate change solutions. white house aides not holding their breath it'll happen. the president looking to take executive action on the issue, but those can't go nearly as far as they would from an act of congress. >> we're going to -- >> mika, we break new records every year. >> i know. it's frightening. >> that's year was one of the hottest years ever observed. 25 countries broke records for their hottest year ever. and the past seven years. this is not cyclical. the past seven years have been the hottest seven years ever recorded. and so, again, things just keep

getting worse and, you know, you look at what's happening in china. you look at what's happening in india. you look at other countries that are industrializing at a rapid pace, that are adding so much to the carbon footprint. >> yeah. >> you look at the fact that we have done better over the past 20 years. we're still only part of the population, contributing 20% to the carbon footprint. we have to work collectively as, you know -- >> with the world. >> with our allies, with the world. >> yeah. >> because, again, every year gets worse. by the way, this doesn't just impact you if you're in blue states. this impacts you if you're in red states. this impacts you if you're in california. this impacts you if you're in texas. >> it's like covid. >> this impacts you, yeah, wherever.

it is. it is like covid. where, of course, you look at the rates of where people died at a higher rate, and it's not hard to pick out those trends. we need to act. i don't know what it'll take for congress to do something. i'm not saying this because of joe biden -- because of joe manchin and what he did the past couple days. he needs to step up because he said he'd do something about this. i'm not just saying this because of what happened yesterday, but what's happened, you know, over the past year, what's happened over the past decade. >> absolutely. >> we have to move. we're out of time. we're not running out of time. we're out of time. >> yeah, we're past time. we'll be continuing to cover this story as it develops. also still ahead, if gas prices are plummeting, why is inflation still rising? if jobs are growing, why is the economy shrinking? if consumers are miserable, why

are so many people enjoying vacations? the "atlantic's" derrick thompson joins us to talk about the everything is weird economy. that's next on "morning joe." we. that's next on "morning joe.

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welcome back to "morning joe." as we look at new york city, it spares repeating, mika, last year, europe had its hottest year on record. that was last year. canada had its hottest year on record. 400 different weather stations had their hottest years ever. >> crazy. >> eight of the last ten years, mika, have broken records for the hottest year ever recorded on this planet.

we look at this extraordinary world we live in and the gift we've been given. we have to work harder to save it than we are. it's just -- again, the fact that congress is stumbling over themselves and can't get anything done, it's just unacceptable. >> it is. while this is something that requires a world response, and what frightens me so much is having watched how the world stumbled around over covid, how this country stumbled around covid and doesn't see science as a serious set of facts and, instead, debates science, puts off science, and people die. i just -- i'm not sure what it's going to take. when you have people literally dying, burning, like in europe,

burning to the point where there are more than 1,000 people dead because of the heat, this is as in your face as it gets, or as i'd like it to be. i don't need any more information. it is something that needs to be taken seriously. it's a question we have to repeatedly ask. >> yeah, i mean, if you need more information about whether we're in trouble or not, if you're still debating the science of this -- >> buy a ticket to europe. >> statistics are over 400 different weather locations, weather stations, recorded record-breaking heat last year, and we're going through it now. runways are melting in england. texas power grid melting down. again, can't handle the heat. i mean, enough's enough. we have got to move. eight of the last ten years have been the hottest years ever recorded.

this is not hard, shouldn't be a partisan issue. >> we have a guest standing by, but, first, white house economic adviser jared bernstein briefing reporters yesterday, touting a 34-day decline in gas prices across the country. take a listen. >> we're very happy to report the current drop in the price of gas down 50 cents per galon over the past 34 days is one of the fastest decline in retail gas prices in a decade. according to an industry analyst, 20,000 gas stations across over 30 states are now charging less than $4 per gallon. now, we know this is a volatile market. that's one reason we're highlighting a trend here and not a blip. we think it is reasonable to expect more gas stations to lower their prices in response to lower input costs and, thus, barring unforeseen market disruptions, to see average prices fall below $4 per gallon in more places in coming weeks. >> obviously, this is a good

report. the prices are going down. i'm sure if we played a lot more of what jared had to say, he'd also point out we're still struggling. i just worry about the white house touting any good news right now because of the inflationary struggles that americans are feeling right now. joe, what do you think? >> i think the biggest problem is -- i mean, that's what you do if you're at the white house and nobody is reporting on this. everybody is reporting when it goes up. nobody is really reporting about when it goes down. >> right. >> you have a press conference like that, you run the press conference. we talk about it. we debate it. i would guess most americans, again, probably haven't focused on the fact that it's gone down on average 50 cents. they just know it's still way too expensive. but the real question is, are they setting themselves up for problems in the fall? we're hearing that gas prices may go back up in the fall. >> right. >> if they continue down between now and the end of the year, that is great news for the consumers.

i would guess that's great news for the politicians, too. but, yeah, always have to be careful. >> joining us now, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. also, staff writer for the "atlantic," derrick thompson, writing about if the the everything-is-weird economy." derrick, let's start with that. everything is weird. do you know why? >> yeah, everything is period because we're coming out of a pandemic economy. i've likened it to a pinched hose effect, right? you're watering the garden in the backyard. turn on the water, pinch the hose. what happens when you un-pinch the hose? it flops all over the place. you don't know where the ose is going to do. that's the after-pandemic economy. we shut off demand, shut town the world, and as we opened up, the demand recovery accelerated faster than the supply recovery. we started asking for things faster than the world's ability to provide them. it's led to cascading failures. look, flying around the country is really difficult right now.

you had supply chain bottlenecks and microchips. we had a shortage of babe by baby formula. inflation is 9.1%. when you look for the original sin of these, it is the pandemic and our response to it. >> rapid fire, if gas prices are plummeting, why is inflation rising, derrick? >> easiest answer, gas prices have been falling from the end of june to july. the inflation report in july is for the month of june. so we should, hopefully, fingers crossed, toes crossed, see official inflation, headline inflation fall in the next month's report and the report after that. it is very possible that all these commodity prices we saw falling, including oil, those are going to be registered in the july report. we just got the last, hopefully, peak inflation report for the month of june. >> steve, does that make sense to you? >> yeah. look, we are in the strangest

economy of my lifetime, in terms of some of the factors that derrick is talking about. we've never had a pandemic, a shutdown, a reopening like this, all the government stimulus that went on, everything the fed did, all at the same time. so, yes, the economy is behaving, to use a technical term, weirdly. and all the things that derrick said are absolutely factors here. in terms of the outlook, it is hard to say. crude stabilized, even has gone up a little since they -- from the low point when they started dropping. yes, we'll get some relief at the gas station, but it's not going back to $3 or $3.50 any time soon. and you have other prices that are continuing to rise. prices for housing. prices for certain kinds of food. prices for manufactured goods that people are still buying are rising. inflation is going, i think, to peak somewhere along here, but we're obviously over 9%.

the question is how far and how fast does it drop? i don't see it dropping down to anything like 2%, which is the fed's adamant goal, any time in the immediate or medium term future, for that matter. >> we don't know what's going to be happening in the future. steve, as you know, i'm usually perhaps too -- on the american people. curious what your thoughts are. it's shown surprising resilience. unemployment half the rate as it was when ronald reagan was running around talking about mourning in america in '89. this last week, the u.s. dollar is the strongest as it's been in well over a generation against other currencies. our economy relative to other economies seems to be doing very well, doesn't it? >> no question about that. our economy, you could say that it's the best house in a bad neighborhood. you have terrible problems in europe at moment.

some of them self-inflicted by bad energy policies, by bad other kinds of policies. some of them the fact they are so close to ukraine. so dependent on russia for their gas and for a lot of their oil. they have drawn the short straw, if you will, in the current fallout from ukraine. no question about that. japan has been struggling a long time to try to get its economy moving again. so, yes, our economy is the most flexible, the most resilient economy in the world, and it has shown that here. we've also used very, very healthy measures, more than any other country, of government stimulus in order to bring this economy back. that has, of course, contributed, not insignificantly, to the inflation problem we have. >> derrick, this is a weird economy. i definitely take your point. so what makes it un-weird? how do we get out of this sort of weird cycle? >> so you've seen the federal

reserve try to, right now, destroy demand. they're trying to bring down inflation by destroying demand. that totally makes sense, right? raising interest rates to reduce demand for housing, reduce demand for car loans, things that are sensitive to rising interest rates, that is the top playbook you want to use when you have inflation. the problem is inflation is not nearly caused by the fact americans are spending a lot of money. it is also caused by global factors. it's caused by, as steve talked about, supply of oil, wheat, corn. so they're trying to bring down one side of the equation here. the worry is that they succeed in destroying demand, but the demand falls below 0%. that's what we call a recession. so it's very likely. i mean, i don't know exactly what the likelihood is, but it is very possible that what we see is the federal reserve, in an attempt to reduce inflation, stabilize prices, close down demand enough that we actually enter recession. steve mentioned the fact we're

the best house in a bad neighborhood. it is very literally like that. this neighborhood is terrible. europe is going to enter a recession. japan has all sorts of problems. what happens for the u.s. economy that is at least slightly dependent on exports is -- like all our trading partners fall apart, exports go down, the high dollar makes it harder for other people to buy our stuff, and that means we could have a recession here that's not like 2008 but maybe like 2000/2001. >> wow. staff writer for the "atlantic" derrick thompson, thank you very much. we appreciate it. steve, actually, you have charts for us, but on another topic. i feel like there's a theme this morning. of things we cannot, because of politics, collectively act on, whether it be climate change or covid. this morning, you're looking at guns and mass shootings. we had another one at a mall in indiana yesterday. yet, the action we've seen in congress, we have had a first step. there's been a bill.

but democrats will say it is so far short of what is needed. republicans still holding to their position that seems to really feed into a gun culture in this country, that surpasses every country in the world. give us a sense of what your charts are looking at this morning. >> mika, this is incredibly frustrating, i think, to all of us, especially when the data is so unbelievably clear. facts are stubborn things, and it wouldn't take a lot to make a difference in the mass shootings going on out there, like the one at the mall at indiana, and, yet, we do nothing. you can see what's going on out there. the first thing is mass shootings continue to rise. this shows you year by year for the last five years almost, including part of 2022, what's been happening. you can see each year has been higher than the year before. much of the increase from 2019 to 2020 and then to '21 has been

acontributed attributed to covid. you had people locked down, schools closed, public workers focusing on other things other than public safety. you had economic distress, all of which people said contributed to the big rise in mass shootings over the last two years. but you can see this year is right on track to be just as bad as last year, even though all the covid stuff has certainly eased dramatically. so it just keeps going up and up, and nobody really seems to want to do anything about it. 692 mass shootings, which we define as four or more people being shot, not necessarily all killed. four people involved in gun violence. that was 13% more than 2020. we just keep going from there. >> if you look at your next chart, talk about data that is depressing, let's get that up. this is the number of gun-related deaths per 100,000 people. sadly, the united states off by

itself. more guns, more death. there's just not a comparison with so many other countries in the west and across the world. it's -- i -- it's grotesque. it is grotesque. >> really, that's fair. >> that we're out there and that we seem to have just accepted the fact that kids are going to be shot in schools, that people or parishioners are going to be shot in church, shot in synagogues, shot in country music concerts, shot in malls, shot in food courts. what the hell is wrong with republican members of congress? what the hell is wrong with state legislators that won't move on universal background checks, that won't move on weapons of war, when you look at

the data that's so clear. as mika said, there were some republicans that stepped forward, an important first step, and we want to commend them for that. but we need universal background checks and certainly more aggressive public safety legislation on state levels, as well. >> joe, in a perfect world, you'd just get rid of a bunch of guns. we have 4% of the world's population, and we have 46% of the guns owned by civilians. 400 million guns in civilian hands, more than one per american. so what this chart shows you is that if you look at the guns per 100 people, which is the axis across the bottom, you can see 120 guns per 100 americans. ie, more guns than people. we are all the way on the right, as you said. then if you look at the vertical ax axis, you can see that leads to far more deaths.

you can see in the lower left-hand corner, maybe not as visible on the screen, but places like singapore and the united kingdom that essentially have no guns, no deaths. you know, for those of us who believe in data, the data seems pretty overwhelming as to what you need to do. >> right. steve, that's the struggle lately. i mean, that's the struggle of the past few years, maybe has been a struggle longer than that. even with covid and climate change, people don't want to look at data. yet, here's data right here. your third start showing gun control works. >> in 1996, australia had a mass shooting in tasmania. 35 people were killed and 18 others were injured. they said, unlike us, they said, enough of this. let's go deal with it. let's pass some gun control. so you can see the red lines, the red bars, are before they passed their gun control. the blue bars are after they passed their gun control. you can see the number of gun

deaths dropped by half. by the way, the other thing that happened was that the number of fire -- of homicides with guns dropped by 40%. even the number of suicides with firearms dropped by 50%, all because of this. again, for those of us who live in the world of data, the data seems unbelievably compelling. the mystery, of course, which i would leave to you guys, is why nobody in washington is willing to accept these facts and deal with it. >> yeah, it really is -- it makes absolutely no sense. the bad news continues. we have to do something on public safety. mika, the data, you just can't debate it. you look at countries, look at states. more guns, more deaths. >> we're a failure in the world on this. it is obvious. we'll keep fighting. steve rattner, thank you for being on this morning and

bringing us the data. still ahead, florida's republican governors been bitterly criticized for his education policies and rhetoric. but as speculation continues over whether ron desantis will announce a presidential run, battleground voters appear to favor much of what he's been saying and doing. nbc's marc caputo joins us with the new reporting. we're back in just a minute. wi the new reporting. the new reporting. we're back in just a minute. the insurance company enwasn't fair.ity y ca i didn't know what my case was worth, so i called the barnes firm.

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tied at 18. >> i think he went to 19. now, this is 20, as a matter of fact. >> it keeps going. he is down on a knee. he's got it. that is flipped sky high! juan soto is your 2022 home run derby champion. >> all right. days after turning down a massive long-term contract extension for the washington national slugger, soto shook off the trade rumors and won the home run derby last night. 53 total homers, beating each of his three opponents by one home run, including the final round against seattle mariners rookie julio rodriguez. rodriguez knocked down two-time reigning champion pete alonso. pete had a rough night last night in the semifinal round. more than doubles his rookie salary as a derby runner-up,

which comes with a payout of $750,000. we've got jonathan lemire and eugene robinson with us. also, let's bring into the conversation msnbc contributor mike barnicle. former u.s. senator and now an msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill. we have to go to gene robinson who suffers with washington. you guys get to hold on to juan soto? >> i sure hope so. you know, this is a guy who can do anything he wants to do. i mean, he is just the most amazing hitter. i saw him play on sunday in a game, miraculously, that the nationals won against the braves, who are just really hot and really good. he went 1 for 4. it was, you know -- the one was a solo home run late in the game. that's kind of an off day for him. this guy is the best pure hitter i've ever seen. >> incredible.

>> he is 23 years old. the nationals need to pay him. now, they offered him $440 million, which is a fair chunk of change. >> there you go. >> offered that over 15 years, however. the per year salary would put him maybe, say, 20th all-time in terms of the amount of money he is getting. he needs to be higher up that chain, i think. >> yeah. >> maybe fewer years, same amount of money. i know these are ridiculous sums. he's that good. he's that good. give us a reason to keep going to the ballpark. keep juan soto. >> he is one of the most exciting, young talents out there, we'd say. we've got a little aaa team in boston, and we got a player named devers, who is pretty good, too. we need to resign devers. of course, xander. now, mike is always our go-to guy for anything mlb, but he's going to be third today because

i had to ask you about soto. claire, i have to ask you about albert pujols. yesterday, jack and i were looking down the list. we go, pujols, isn't he, like, 75 or something? he's on medicaid. what are they letting him go out -- and, boy, did he light it up, huh? >> yeah. we're having so much fun in st. louis with pujols and adam wainwright and molina. then we have the youngest manager in baseball. it's the tale of two extremes. every time pujols comes up in st. louis, the crowd just loves him up. at a level that's so fun to be a part of. it is really pretty amazing, when you realize, you know, he ain't 23, folks. he is really old for baseball. >> really, mike. what were your thoughts last night? >> gene mentioning juan soto is really interesting because of one aspect.

the club, the washington nationals, is for sale. the learnlerner family has the on the block. i don't know what the impact of juan soto perhaps being traded or dealt this year would do for the sale of the club. might reduce the cost of buying the club. we'll see. the other thing is, albert pujols, that's the flip side of it. albert pujols is finishing his career where it began, with the st. louis cardinals. that's just a great thing for the fans, for major league baseball. you'd like to see it happen more often. in boston, we're dealing with two pillars of the team. both youngsters, really. xander bogaerts, shortstop. devers, maybe one of the most -- two or three most dangerous hitters in major league baseball. young kid, 24 years old, i think he is. you have to resign him. it might not happen, and that is the weakness of major league baseball compared to, like, the

nba or the nfl, where players are signed with teams and usually extend their careers with the same teams. major league baseball, for some reason or another, can't lock down some sort of salary structure where the players can stay with teams and make an enormous amount of money. >> i'll add, in recent years, mike, nba players more prone to changing teams, but that would have been the tradition a long time. guy starts with the team and ends the team. we should see it more in mlb. we talked about the need to resign devers. it's not like the red sox can't afford him. of course they can. they just need to be able to do it. i guess on a happier note, the home run derby last night really showcased the extraordinary amount of young talent in the game right now. we'll see more of it in the actual game tonight. rodriguez for the mariners, a rookie. mariners have won now, i believe, 13 in a row. he is a driving force behind that. devers himself, i believe, is only 24. juan soto is 23. the list goes on and on.

the game is in a good place with these young players. it is just a shame that the red sox decided to end the first half with a clunker this weekend in new york. for us, it'll be a time to start preparing maybe for the world cup in november. >> yeah, maybe. >> hate to break all your hearts, but we're going to get to the news. thank you for that. nbc news has confirmed two of the witnesses expected to testify this thursday before the january 6th house select committee's next hearing will be former national security council member matthew pottinger and former deputy white house press secretary sarah matthews. pottinger, whose resignation was announced one day after the capitol attack, has spoken with the committee for video recorded testimony. among the things discussed there according to the "new york times" was a visit he made to the oval office while the insurrection was under way.

although donald trump was in the white house dining room at the time, pottinger reportedly spoke with former chief of staff mark meadows about the efforts to deploy the national guard to the capitol. matthews also resigned in the wake of the insurrection and has been vocal in her criticism of trump's actions since then. she has also voiced her support for her former colleague, cassidy hutchinson, who delivered that damning testimony before the panel last month. in that emergency hearing. thursday's hearing is expected to focus on what committee members are calling trump's dereliction of duty and give a minute-by-minute account of the former president's actions or lack thereof during the insurrection. claire mccaskill, these hearings have been incredible. they've been very fact driven. no drama brought to the table by

anybody, specifically just the facts are incredibly dramatic. what do you expect this thursday, and how do you think the committee has done, trying to communicate so far what has happened? >> i think they've done an incredible job. first, they've been strategic about how this information has been brought forth. not only has it been compelling and put in a format that is easily digestible, it is all trump's people. we've said this over and over again, one need to say it over again. this is trump's cabinet officials, the innermost circle. they were falling on a sword for him day-day. these were not people who didn't support trump. thursday will be important. i hope they do this, there is a critical moment of about a half hour before trump sent the tweet attacking pence. at, like, you know, 1:24 -- or 2:24. i forget which it was.

the half hour before, he was watching television. people need to be reminded what he was seeing. i'll never forget it. but he was watching these people attack police officers and break the capitol down and desecrate it. and he was doing nothing but tweeting criticisms, pouring gasoline on the fire, providing that timeline in a really clear way is what i think they're going to do thursday night. i think it will be very powerful. >> claire, it's awful that he was doing nothing. it's awful that he was watching. i think many can agree on that, maybe not all. criminal, though? as a former prosecutor, what stands out to you blatantly here? >> well, it shows his state of mind, mika. intent is an important part of any crime that would be charged. there are several that could be charged in the federal system.

very important, especially in a conspiracy, is can you prove the state of mind of a co-conspirator? what he did during that time speaks volumes to a jury about his state of mind and what he wanted to happen. he thought this was good, period. >> and he was watching on television and even rewinding the, quote, best parts, and gleeful about what he was seeing. mike barnicle, what has been impressive about these hearings, it's been a mix of really compelling video testimony. we're seeing snippets from senior advisers' depositions that have been damning to the former president, but also the in-person testimony. cassidy hutchinson chief among them. i think we stand poised to get some equally compelling thursda. he was an early warning sign in the trump administration about the pandemic. former "wall street journal" reporter. he had extensive contacts in china. he tried to tell the white house, hey, take this seriously.

they didn't listen. january 6th, he tried to tell the white house, hey, things are going off the rails at the capitol. they did not listen. what do you expect we'll hear thursday? >> first of all, matthew pottinger's testimony is going to be devastating. guess what? like the testimony of so many others, it's not from a sworn enemy of donald trump. it's from people who have worked alongside donald trump for years in the white house. matthew pottinger, as you eluded to, former reporter for the "wall street journal," but more importantly, an officer in the united states marine corps. tour in iraq, afghanistan, and a tour in the white house. a knowledgeable guy. so i think his testimony will be critical thursday night. the larger theme, though, i think the one that more people have to focus on, and i don't know that the justice department is focusing on it as much as the january 6th committee is, is the

enormous damage this one man, trump, has done to this country, to our government, to the institutions of government, to the morale of the people of the united states of america, and to claire's point, the issue of intent. we know now and have known for quite some time what his intent was. to do something to save himself. not the country, not the people, himself. >> for sure. and a lot of people who stayed in there, stood by him, losing their jobs now, just for the sake of telling the truth. republican arizona house speaker rusty bowers testified to the committee about the pressure campaign he faced from trump and his allies to help subvert arizona's 2020 election results. now, he could be fighting for his political life. bowers is running for state senate in an overwhelmingly

pro-trump district. he told nbc news, quote, it is so hostile. if i pull this off, it's going to be a miracle. next month's primary will be a test to see whether a republican can win a gop primary after testifying to the committee. for a lot of people, gene robinson, this is the choice they have to make. >> yeah. >> it doesn't seem to be a fair one at all. but they do put their jobs on the line if they want to tell the truth about donald trump. >> right. it may not be fair to have to make that choice, but that's the right choice. the right choice is to stand up for the country. >> yeah. >> and for democracy, rather than standing for donald trump. it's fascinating, though, because the reason bowers is in trouble is that the republican base is still a cult of personality for donald trump.

it's a fascinating sort of chicken and egg question. did trump create this cult, or was the cult already there? was the base already in this sort of crazy place and just waiting for donald trump to come along and inspire it? i think political scientists will be writing books about that for many years, assuming we're still able to write books in this united states of america. >> or people can read books. >> the way things are going, it is nuts. >> it is. speculation continues over whether florida governor ron desantis will announce a 2024 presidentialpolling suggestions republican voters in battleground states approve of his controversial education policies. a poll conducted by heart research found that voters by a 32-percentage point margin, said

they were more likely to vote for candidates who believe public schools should focus less on teaching race and more on core subjects. by 27 points, they said schools should be banned from teaching sexual orientation and gender identity to kids in kindergarten to third. i still want to know, do they teach that? do they teach that? >> the thing is -- >> in kindergarten. >> the thing is, what americans have said, boy, i sure do wish they would teach sexuality to my 5-year-old. >> okay. >> see, again, this is the thing we're going to talk about in a second. >> i agree with this. >> desantis is really great at baiting the left. he brings up this nonsensical issue, mika, that -- i say it is nonsensical because 5-year-olds? nobody. i've never met a parent, democrat, republican, independent, that says, "i would love my 5-year-old or 6-year-old or 7-year-old to be taught

that." suddenly, you know, out of that becomes this great reaction, this don't say gay slogan, making it sound like this is for all students. desantis gets his issue. he gets the media. he can attack. he gets some people on the left that he can attack. it's kind of like the mlb not even reading the georgia voting bill before they took the all-star game away from atlanta. again, playing right into trump and desantis and people like that, playing right into their cultural grievances when, of course, it is still easier to vote in georgia than it is new york city. if you don't believe that, please register to vote in new york city. but it is not just this issue, mika. it is other issues. >> yeah. >> it's the cultural issues that are trapdoors for, i'll say not

just democrats but a lot of people in the media, who oversimplify an issue. >> twitter. >> play right into desantis' hands. >> yes. at a time when we're facing, you know, crises of actual existence, we're talking about these issues. here's another one. 28-point margin, voters said transgender athletes should be banned from competing in girls sports. most voters said they'd be less likely to back candidates who want to prosecute teachers for instructing students on critical race theory and gender identity. here we go again. joining us now -- >> you say here we go again. i think there is a poll. 82%. let's go back to the last poll, then get to marc caputo. this is something people don't talk about on television. maybe they're afraid. 82% of americans said they don't think that a man who transitions

post puberty should be able to compete in girls' sports or in women's sports. now, that's a position 82% of americans agree on. again, it's set up as a left versus right. it pushes democrats into a corner. now, i understand, there are one in four americans who think that should be allowed to happen. i understand there are one in four americans, if you look at these polls, that think that people in kindergarten should be taught sexuality. but, again -- >> what are we doing? >> -- desantis is great at setting this up, so he gets to take on the media. take on the supposed left when it is only the most progressive wing of the democratic party. suddenly, he's the savior of the great, you know, moral majority

or whatever he'd want to call it. it's just -- desantis baits the left. it's why he has over $100 million right now in his campaign. >> amazing. should we go to marc caputo now? >> we can. >> joining us with more on his latest reporting on this, senior national political reporter marc caputo. >> marc, listen, you know, what's so interesting about this is, this was a poll done by democrats. peter harding, democratic pollster. actually, we're doing the social issues here because that's what made the headlines, but there's actually a lot of good stuff in here for democrats. so much so, a teachers union is actually sending this poll around. so it's not all great news for trumpy governors and trumpy legislators, but those are some of the headlines that stand out. there's good news for democrats in this poll, too, right? >> as mika mentioned, in the more likely/less likely

category, a voter in these battleground states, when polled, would be 19 percentage points less likely to a politician who favors giving parents the ability to ban books. that's happened here in florida. also, voters just overwhelmingly want smaller class sizes. they want more money spent on schools. florida quite hasn't obeyed a 2002 class-sized reduction law passed by voters 20 years ago. the schools, if you talk to teachers -- i'm married to one, two kids in public schools -- by and large, they're underfunded, especially in poorer schools. with the teachers union, the american federation of teachers was doing, they were message testing and polity testing, saying, how do we talk about these properly and not lose? what they found is that, now, when voters are asked in these battleground states, overall, hey, who do you trust more on education, republicans or

democrats, it's basically even now. it didn't used to be that way. democrats used to be far more associated with supporting the classroom, supporting teachers, and supporting school kids. certainly, recently, that advantage has eroded, and it's been an alarm bell for the american federation of teachers, various teachers unions, because they are democratically aligned and don't like what they're seeing. >> yeah. gene robinson, of course, on the bread and butter issues, more funding for schools. democrats support more funding for schools. ron desantis, you can look at his budget. look what democrats ask for. class sizes. republicans aren't going to get class sizes smaller because it's always about cutting education for most governors. that's how they prove themselves. but it is the social issues. it is these wedge issues. we can talk about, again, transgender swimmers and track

athletes post puberty who transition, and i think most people, again -- i know overwhelmingly number of americans and the international association says, well, no, that's not fair. that's an unfair advantage. but even if you want to put some of these other issues, like teaching sexuality to 5-year-olds. i know you didn't want your kindergartener taught sexuality. nor did i. >> no. >> even second or third grade. but the thing that i know concerns you, and it concerns me, and it should concern all americans, that issue on race. >> yeah. >> we're just now starting to talk about race. you know, we've had the white version of american history for 220, 230 years. now, we're starting to talk more about tulsa. willie and i, when we talk about tulsa 100 years ago, we had

never heard of the tulsa race riots. i majored in history. i studied history. i've read history my whole life. >> right. >> you look at 1619. yes, there was some language that may not have been exactly right, but you look at what 1619 has brought to the debate. suddenly, teachers are afraid to talk about race in classes? that does seem outrageous, doesn't it? >> it is crazy because all we're talking about is teaching american history in its totality, in its entirety. yes, that's a way it has not been taught before. a lot of that history has been excluded. so now, it is being included. that's all that's happening. it's fascinating, the way that question in the poll was phrased. it was phrased, i think, cleverly, the way republicans were trying to frame it. should the schools spend more

time on race or the core subjects? of course more time -- >> if you're going to have an either/or -- >> exactly. >> so you have the core issue. then you have the or. you can put anything in that position and go, no, the coir core issues. >> of course, you are going to teach the core subjects. >> right. >> yet, that's the way republicans are framing it. democrats, you know, have to find a way to frankly and openly push back against that and reframe these questions. don't accept the republican framing of these questions. you know, republicans, frankly, are very good at this. they're great at baiting democrats. you're absolutely right about desantis, teaching sexuality to kindergartners. nobody does that. >> nobody wants that. >> right. >> but he made a big deal of it, and he has $100 million in his

campaign fund, largely because of it. you know, this is not rocket science, but you have to actively push back against this and reframe these questions and just show, in many cases, how ridiculous they are. >> by the way, mike barnicle, it's very easy to say, well, yes, we believe in teaching core subjects. it's not, we can teach core subjects or we can teach race. race is in the core subject of history. we can discuss the brilliance of our founders. we can discuss how they created documents that freed more people than anybody else in the history of the planet. at the same time, we need to also discuss the fact they were slave holders. that most of our early presidents were slave holders. that's something that we can grapple with. we can debate. that we can hold. we can hold both competing

thoughts in our mind. actually, what you do when you do that is you actually have students, you teach them to think critically. >> yeah. you know, joe, what we're talking about here really, in essence, is a theme that is rattling the foundation of our democracy and of country. claire mccaskill, you've been on the ballot. you've run for office. between the two of us, claire, we've raised a lot of children. as you go around, as you went around when you were a candidate and as you go around today, what's your thought about the really evil genius that some republicans -- we're talking about ron desantis in this case -- have managed to inflict issues that have nothing to do with the daily education of students. in other words, you know, if you talk to a parent of a fourth or fifth grade student, they're concerned about class size. they're concerned about the fact

their kids might be coming home at the end of the fifth grade not knowing what 10 and 10 is. not knowing how to decline an english sentence. not reading the books they ought to be reading. no one is talking about transgender children in fifth grade. republicans have inflicted culture into the most important aspect of raising a family, public education. >> yeah. i think evil genius is the right way to put it. i would have loved to have seen the answer to the question on that poll, do you believe students in school should be taught about slavery? i bet there would be 85% of americans who say yes, they should. but what they've done, and the virginia governor's race is instructive here. during the pandemic, my kids were so frustrated and felt so out of control concerning the education of their children. emotions were maybe at an

all-time high among parents about whether or not they had any control over what was happening with their child vis-a-vis their education. at that moment, these republicans figured out, to make this an issue. when terry mcauliffe stumbld into the answer that parents shouldn't have a say, that was all she wrote. at that moment, parents really felt that things were out of control. and i think desantis has figured this out. i think desantis is an evil genius. joe couldn't be more correct, and i probably don't say that often enough. joe couldn't be more correct about desantis baiting the left into making this about something that isn't real. but the fear is there, and that's what he is surfing, the fear. that's what they all do. and we actually rise to the occasion and, instead of saying, what a stupid thing to talk

about, it's not happening, we start going into it as if kindergarteners are being taught about sexuality. it is just so frustrating to me. >> marc caputo, real or not, desantis has turned this into a real issue. we know he is running for re-election this year, but any conversation about governor desantis is about 2024 right now. he's seen as the most viable contender to trump, were trump to jump in. you're well plugged into trump world, as we. how are they seeing, how is the other florida man in the conversation reacting to what desantis is doing on this issue? >> good question. i think it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that ron desantis is living rent free in between donald trump's ears. it's not the other way around. when you talk to people who talk to trump, he frequently talks about desantis. not necessarily in a completely negative way, but he is looking at him the same way, like, julius caesar looked at cassius

in shakespeare's play. he is a potential threat. one of the reasons donald trump might announce early, this year, is desantis keeps climbing up in the polls. trump figures, look -- and this is according to people who have spoken to him, us, and others -- if i announce now and become the nominee, no one else will run against me. i am among those that believe if the polling holds, and that is a big if, i don't see ron desantis challenging donald trump at the current rates, like trump is still getting half of the republican primary voters. desantis, far less. desantis knows campaigning against donald trump, ask anyone who ran against him in the primary, this guy is a self-immolating arsonist who is wearing an asbestos suit and you burn. if there are enough people who

draft him, the opinion may change. >> nice mental imagery. donald trump gives you a fiery hug. thank you for being with us. greatly appreciate it. >> thank you, marc. recent polling has shown democrats loing support among working class voters. first the first time in the poll, democrats had a larger share of support among white college graduate than among non-college graduates. three things the party can do to win the party back. democratic strategist and partner at impact research joining us now, brian, good to have you. let me read from your latest "new york times" op-ed. you offer this advice. democrats can focus on three things. first, we need to talk of the work we've done to rebuild america. for example, through the infrastructure bill, which has engaged construction in places

all over the country. second, democrats should continue to push legislation that helps the working class, particularly in building things, and point out how it'll make a difference in people's lives. third, democrats need to draw a contrast between themselves and republicans who are all too glad to ship business overseas. >> claire mccaskill? >> brian, on this list, it is interesting, i think you are exactly right about appealing to the people on the basis of what we've actually done and what priorities are. it is interesting to me that health care is not on here. >> yeah. >> you know, appealing to the grievance of the working class has really worked for donald trump and the others. you've seen that. he said things out loud that they agreed with that many of us

find offensive, and he got their votes and their hearts. but the republicans consistently have not delivered on health care. i just noticed that when i talk about health care, people get it. the democrats are more interested in making sure you hold onto your medicare, expanding medicaid, making sure prescription drug companies are brought to their knee. is there a reason that health care is not on your list? >> for sure. i think that health care is an important issue to working people, and you're looking at people trying to deal with the cost of everything. guess what? prescription drugs are a huge portion of that. this was really a reaction to, we'll walk into focus groups these days, or you saw the poll i cited here, and ask people, who does a better job on outsourcing, democrats or republicans? people say, well, republicans. donald trump wants to make things here. that just was never the case.

you know, you'd ask that about mitt romney, people would have laughed, right? so the republican party has been able to get in this space of being the one that's for american jobs, for keeping jobs here. it's not reality, not where the policy is. we're going to have struggles with working class people if they don't think they can keep jobs here. >> that's the biggest question. where is the disconnect? years ago, there was, of course, a book called "what's the matter with kansas?" kansas is just fine, it replied, and continued voting republican. the past several years, you've seen more working class voters go from the democratic party to the republican party. you see people of color going for the democratic party to the republican party in record numbers. what i want to know, what i can't figure out, a light was switched off for working class

voters toward democrats between barack obama and donald trump. barack obama did so well in iowa, in wisconsin, in michigan and pennsylvania two times, and then it was like we had an election in 2016, an entirely different country. why did working class voters flee democrats as quickly as they did? >> well, it's funny you mention that. you go back to your conversation you were just having. we had elections in 2008 and 2012 about the economy and about republican failures on the economy, outsourcing, like, the recession, and democratic successes and policies. the auto rescue, right? other economic policies. health care, very economic in the 2012 and 2008 framing.

i think part of it is we've seen the ground. trump talked about it in a way that midwestern democrats talk about trade and outsourcing. we've kind of let him. once trump says something, we don't want to say it and sound like trump. he's hitting these voters right where they're at. >> brian -- >> mike barnicle, sorry, i wanted to have you comment on this, mike. you look at the state like ohio, which has gone deep red, right? >> mm-hmm. >> well, you have tim ryan who is a moderate to conservative democrat, who is doing very well. nine points ahead in the latest poll. in the same state, you have sherrod brown who is one of the more progressive members, who owns the state of ohio. so this isn't even about ideology, is it? >> no. in a sense, joe, it's about toughness and it's about reality for democratic candidates. tim ryan is talking about things

that matter to people. tim ryan is talking about guns. he's linking his candidacy with the support for the police. in opposition to the de-fund the police this went on a couple years ago. he's talking about what happened when kids in ohio and everywhere else in this country lost maybe two formative years of public school education by not being able to go to school. brian, my question to you is, on a larger scale, the democratic candidates for office, the democrats in office today, what happened to toughness? i mean, trump is living in their heads. they're talking about donald trump all the time. what happened to the toughness that would require a candidate, a democratic candidate, to cut the heart out of republicans in terms of living issues day-to-day to impact people? >> it's a good question. i think that that's a big part of what voters do respond to, is they want someone tough, right?

i mean, tim's got that. it is real tim ryan. he's got that. it's real. it's not an act, right? you look at someone a little north of him, gretchen whitmer. that's someone who is tough and has taken on trump in a way that makes sense while still delivering for michiganders. people ought to be a lot tougher and keep focused on the kitchen table issues that are really important to people. >> brian, thank you very much. we'll read your column for the "new york times." appreciate you coming on. claire mccaskill and eugene robinson, thank you, both, as well. coming up, the granddaughter of winston churchill provides a revealing look at the historic prime minister through the diary entries of his youngest daughter. >> anyone who read "the splintered and viral" knows it is a remarkable book.

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i look back with great satisfaction on my 32 years of active duty. i understand the veteran mentality. these are people who have served, they'e been in leadership positions, they're willing to put their life on the line if necessary and they come to us and they say, "i need some financial help at this point in time."

they're not looking for a hand out, they're looking for a little hand up. my team at newday usa is going to do everything we possibly can to make sure that veteran gets that loan. it's unreal to look at the names of the trophy and add mine. it's unreal. i'm lost for words. >> perhaps tell us how you're going to celebrate tonight with the claret jug. >> i'm definitely going to find out how many beers fit in this thing. that's for sure. >> now, an update for the sound bite we played yesterday. open champ champion smith delivered on his promise, to find out how many beers fit inside the jug. >> everyone has been asking the question of how many beers fit

in the claret jug. pretty much exactly two. we had a good night last night. >> very important. jonathan lemire, very important to get that answer. it's like how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. now we know the answer to the question. >> speaks to the quality of the journalism on "morning joe." we don't have one day's headlines. we stay on a story, diving deeper, asking the important follow-up questions and bring them to the viewers. i'll note, i'm surprised it is only two. that falls far short of the amount of beers you can put in the stanley cup. the whole team can get a bite of that. >> exactly. that's good information to know, too. hockey fans out there. >> thanks. how many money are we going to save, mike, the red sox, not having to buy champagne for this fall, for getting into the

playoffs or winning a playoff game or anything? you don't have to buy champagne for a fifth place finish, do you? >> you don't. once again, to jonathan's point, there is no other program on national television, other than "morning joe," that does the analytics, the metrics on how many drinks you can pour into a claret jug. >> all right, idiidiots. >> and the savings you don't have to buy for the red sox. >> it'd be nice if we let mookie go, would be nice if we could keep xander. >> i still can't go there. >> now we're just getting upset. >> exactly. up next, an intimate look at one of history's greatest figures. winston churchill. the granddaughter of the legendary prime minister joining us with a view from inside the churchill family. and as we go to break, we've been talking this morning about

the extreme heat plaguing britain. this just in, a temperature of 102.4 degrees was provisionally recorded in suri. if confirmed, it'd be the highest temperature ever recorded in the uk. temperatures are expected to rise further through today. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." we'll be right bac nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? more "morning joe.

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what was it like growing up with the name churchill? >> well, for a long time it didn't mean anything to me. it might just as well have been brown or smith, because i took it all for granted and them for granted. i had an enchanted childhood. when i started to read the newspaper i would realize that his name appeared a lot in those, but it was only really in the '30s when it really became borne in on me that he was somebody very big in terms of

public life. >> the youngest daughter of winston churchill, mary soames, speaking in 1999 about growing up with one of history's most famous last names. ahead of what would have been mary's 100th birthday this year, her daughter is shining a light on her mother's own impressive legacy. and emma soames joins us now. she is the granddaughter of winston churchill and the editor of the new book "mary churchill's war: the war time diary of churchill's youngest daughter." i wanted to first ask you about the decision to change your mother's youngest diaries. we had a little experience with this in my family, talking about my father's diaries and whether or not to share them with the public.

what was that decision like? how did you come to your decision and was it difficult? >> well, yes, it is always difficult to decide to publish something that somebody's been very intimate document, but they are so charming, the diaries, and she, my mother, wrote a memoire called "the daughter's tale" and she did use some bits of the diaries. but then after her death we as a family sort of looked at the diaries, and they were just -- there was so much more in them than she had used, and i think that actually my mother was for very, very silly sort of reasons embarrassed by some of the diaries because, you know, she was 16 and she had all of the emotions of a 16 year old, and

she sort of thought they were embarrassing or, as she put it, hot making. anyway, we thought they deserved publication and they've been -- anybody who has read them entirely agrees with us. >> so, emma, i read "splendid vile" last year, and there was so much. of course, eric larson writes the introduction to your book and the book here. there was so much that stood out. i must say your mother's diaries were remarkable, they were personal. they were personal, talking about things like romance but also take you to the scene of going out at night in the middle of the war during the blitz and you would read of the absolute horrible things she would see, the horrible things her friends would endure and how she would just keep going day in and day

out. your mother -- this book provides a look into world war ii that we haven't seen. >> i completely agree with you. funny enough, eric larson uses the diaries and being so enthusiastic about them very much encouraged me to keep going because i saw how special her account was. very few people of 17 or 18 who were living interesting enough lives to bear repetition, if you look, 80 years later. but hers was an extraordinary mixture of grand events and spending much time with her father, who i have to say she absolutely adored, and then the normal things that people get -- you know, people of her age did, which was basically keep on

dancing. >> ms. soames, in reading about churchill, multiple works about churchill and thinking about your mother's presence at checkers for state dinners and at 10 downing street, in going through the diaries yourself, what did you learn with your mother, if anything, that surprised you, made you proud, whatever? >> well, the thing is my mother was not a war ball so she did not talk about to us very much about the war. so the fascinating time she spet at checquers, particularly in churchill's sort of exercise of soft power, in the wooing of roosevelt, harry hopkins and

others, i had no idea about that. they were interesting and there were many interesting things like that. really what i saw, what i got from it was she grew up to be a remarkable woman, my mother, and i saw sort of the birth of her huge sense of patriotism, her love of her parents and her very strong feeling that drove her all her life to do her duty to her father. >> emma, finally, you have talked about what you have learned about your mother. what do you think readers that get the book are going to learn, not just about your mother but about the prime minister himself in a war and the battle of britain? what do you think they will come away with the most? >> well, they will come away

with just how agonizing the early years of the war were for churchill, which he could share with very few people, but he could let his guard down with his intimate circle, in which my mother obviously was. you know, she was desperately always trying to support him because he was really sort of terrified of what was going to happen next. but then the other thing is there are some absolutely delightful moments of the two, lovely ones. one is she goes to the boston degree ceremony when my grandfather is made -- in 1943. the other thing is she has lunch with him on their own and she sits on the end of his bare bed and either potted crab and

drinks milk. but then she says, but i'm really -- i'm always very, very aware that i mustn't bore papa or stay too long. so it is full of charming little anecdotes that i have never read in any other account, of which there are so many wonderful ones of my grandfather's life. >> all right. >> all right. the new book is "mary churchill's war: the wartime diaries of churchill's youngest daughter." emma soames, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning and sharing this with us. we really appreciate it. it is fascinating. all right. still ahead, we are going to head to georgia where another trump-backed congressman is in the crosshairs of the grand jury looking into interference in the 2020 election. we'll tell you who is

congressman jodi hice and why the grand jury wants to speak to him. also in georgia, fulton county district attorney bennie willis issuing a blistering response to senator graham refusal to appear before the grand jury, even refusing to refer to him as senator. >> jonathan lemire, there's so much to look at here. we have been focused so much as a country on january 6th, those hearings have garnered the attention of just about everybody except people that are going to be on steve bannon's jury. somehow they didn't even -- didn't know exactly what happened on january 6th based on the reporting, which, again, is really -- i mean do we really have to find the most ignorant people alive to qualify to sit on juries? it is sort of depressing.

but you have january 6th, the justice department is -- obviously we know the justice department is looking at possible crimes that occurred on january 6th. i'm being kind here. we all know crimes occurred on january 6th from the trump white house. but also though georgia, this georgia case is really growing into something significant. >> yeah, the lack of knowledge displayed by that jury pool by the way speaks to the limited reach of steve bannon's podcast i'm sorry to say. but you are right, the georgia scenario has long been what legal experts have said the moment that could provide the most legal peril to donald trump and his inner circle. that, first of all, he is caught on tape talking to secretary of state raffensperger, georgia secretary of state. lindsey graham, senator of south carolina, also calling raffensperger. he wants that federal trial to be conducted in south carolina. the federal government thinks,

wait a minute, this should be in georgia. that's where this happened. >> we saw the unusual step there of not referring to graham by hi honorific of senator. we have seen the district attorney not shy about issuing subpoenas to those sitting in congress. it included someone who is clearly doggedly staying on the matter despite political pressure and headwinds in georgia. it is something a lot of people in trump world are watching nervously even as there's a growing sense throughout washington the department of justice may be more inclined to act now because of how effective the january 6th committee presentations have been. they've been reluctant to do anything to this point and certainly it is not a guarantee they will, but there's a growing sense in the beltway that the department of justice may be moving there as well. >> we will talk about that coming up. there's two witnesses they've

announced for these primetime hearings. bennie thompson says the committee is talking about whether to bring in former president trump or vice president pence for questioning. these are all questions that remain to be answered over the course of the next few weeks. other news we're going to be covering this hour as we launch the third hour of "morning joe," sweltering heat blanketing the country. it is even worse overseas where the united kingdom has recorded its highest temperature ever. over 1,000 people have died. we will be talking about the sweltering heat coming up and what that means and whether or not there is any movement on climate change, which is obviously a major factor in all of this. but let's get back to politics here at home. also, the legal hearings that are underway pertaining to january 6th, opening arguments are expected today in steve bannon's contempt of congress

trial. he refused to testify. both sides need to narrow down the pool of 22 potential jurors to the number of 14. bannon is on trial for ignoring a subpoena from the january 6th committee. bannon claims he couldn't comply with the subpoena because a lawyer for former president trump told him not to on the grounds of executive privilege. >> you know, the trump-appointed judge in the case has actually ruled against that defense saying it is not clear that the trump lawyer ever told him to cooperate. legal experts expect this trial to be finished in a few days. mike barnicle, steve bannon, bro says he's going to go medieval. >> what's that mean? >> he didn't even bring a catapult to court yesterday, and even his defenses aren't holding up. i mean i think this one, this one is a trump judge in there. i think this one is pretty open and shut, isn't it?

>> what does it say about us though, joe, that steve bannon with his three shirts and his heavy sports coat and his failure to shave every other day or whatever, he is suddenly, you know, on everyone's tv screen when he's on nobody's mind really. he is a jackal and he has used his position to promote himself. he comes on as this tough guy, this television tough guy, this talk radio tough guy, and he has basically flaunted the laws of the country and thinks his excuse is because he is, you know, coming off -- trying to come off as someone who is critical to the future of the republic. i mean it is preposterous. we have made this guy into a nationally recognized, sort of nationally recognized. the jurors polled yesterday had no idea who he was, which is really the essence of the case, a nobody on trial for flouting the law. >> well, i actually -- i looked

up jackal here. >> okay. >> and cute little animal. not wearing three shirts, but they're medium sized mammals. >> joe, stop it. >> which also includes wolves and the domestic dogs, among other -- >> ridiculous. sit up. >> i heard the term jackal before. they're very cute. >> all right. >> you don't have to say he is a jackal so much as he is a guy who has a bad hairdo and wears four shirts at the same time. >> okay. >> i'm not exactly sure why. have you figured out, lemere. you have spent time around steve. i have known him off and on for a few years but i don't understand the four shirts. what is that supposed to do? i'm not knocking it. i mean if he has a good reason for wearing four shirts at the same time i may start doing it too. >> often it is five or six shirts at a time. >> that's impressive. >> no, it is. it is one of his greater accomplishments. it is not quite clear why. for a while as we were talking about, mike barnicle, about his

shirts, i feel like once it became noticed in the media that he was doing it he would add a shirt every time. >> the answer the obvious. he's a fat guy who sweats. >> you heard it from mike barnicle. >> my god. >> listen, come on. >> he's a fat guys who sweats. >> listen, i understand the red sox are losing. >> come on. >> but keep it within --. >> joe, you're the one that instigates this. >> i didn't instigate this. call him a jackal, i look up jack will here and it is a cute animal. it is not really an insult. >> i'm going to get to the next story. >> if it rounds out the figure, i may wear four or five shirts. we have to know. >> congressman jody hice, the republican trump recruited to run for secretary of state, he

is now fighting a subpoena. >> he's the guy trump endorsed to be secretary of state, right? so he's secretary of state now? >> nbc reports hice was initially scheduled to appear before the grand jury today. >> wait a second. this man, hice, trump personally picked him because he is an election denier to run against raffensperger. he won, right? this guy won, he's secretary of the state of georgia? >> i'm checking the results here. not only did he lose, he lost. >> was it close. >> he also lost badly. he was crushed. >> really. >> by brad raffensperger who openly defied then-president trump repeatedly. >> so what you're saying is -- what you're saying is he's like the boston red sox at yankee stadium. >> okay. >> yeah. >> wasn't even close. >> it wasn't even close.

it wasn't even close. we talked about -- i mean we are still reeling from this. my poor son's birthday party was the yankee game and he had his brand-new chris sale jersey on and chris sale made it two outs. >> no, no, no, you look at chris sale. he's like a small, delicate glass figurine. >> this is a guy that has to take a lot of heat. >> i'm not sure why the red sox paid him 110. >> 145. >> 145. we knew then chris sale was a small, glass figurine whose arm would fall off every july or august. like, you know, my boys kept saying, oh, but sale is coming back. i'm like, yeah, we'll get him for a couple of days. it is like jacoby elsbury, you

look at him, a leg would break. i feel sorry for him. >> okay. >> but when are red sox fans going to learn, mike? tell me this. i want to get to this jody hice thing. >> i'm trying. >> who, by the way, he got torched. he got torched. >> hammered. >> he got hammered. >> pummelled. >> this is like brad raffensperger was a harlem -- >> obliterated. >> he was the harlem globe trotters and this jody hice was the washington generals. it wasn't even that close. it was just crazy, mika. >> okay. thanks. >> this guy was supposed to win. >> yeah, well, hice -- >> he got destroyed. got crushed. >> hice was initially scheduled to appear before the grand jury today. >> crushed. he was an election denier. who saw this coming? >> after fulton district

attorney's office agreed to delay the deposition pend of the outcome of a july 25th hearing on the case in federal court. >> you can say loyalty to donald trump ended his career. i'm sad for him, sad of anyone whose career ended. >> -- follow on january 6, he objected to the election results in pennsylvania and his own state, in a since deleted instagram post he called january 6th our 1776 moment. >> now, when you seaside "our 1776." you mean like benedict arnold in 1776? >> and he continued to push the big lie. >> or the side for america? >> joining us now, washington correspondent for "the atlanta journal constitution." please excuse my husband. >> i'll be stepping away from the microphone here. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> tell us about this case and what is expected to happen

moving forward. >> yeah, the fulton county district attorney has a special grand jury that's investigating the attempts to influence the outcome of the 2020 general election, particularly in fulton county which is atlanta, georgia. so, you know, they have been subpoenaing witnesses. they recently subpoenaed several members of trump's inner circle and now we know that they have subpoenaed u.s. rep jody hice. the documents that are publicly available right now don't tell us much about what the grand jury is looking for from representative hice. we know as you have already said that he was very prominent in stop-the-steal efforts. attended at least one strategy meeting at the white house after the general election, and he was the one who led the charge on january 6th to try to overturn or reject the electoral college ballots from georgia that day. he wasn't successful because senator loeffler would no longer go along with the plan, but he

was the one kind of leading that effort. >> there's another person in the news with the grand jury and that's senator lindsey gra whom who is additionally fighting the subpoena from the grand jury. fulton county district attorney willis wants him to answer questions about a pair of phone calls he made. raffensperger and his staff were the subject of the phone calls. in a court filing willis said senator graham's objections should be thrown out for several reasons including he should be challenging the subpoena in georgia, not his native south carolina. willis's team repeatedly accused to call graham senator in the filing saying calling him mr. graham they disagree with his argument that he was working in his official capacity as a senator when he called raffensperger. now, the hearing on graham's case is scheduled tomorrow indeed in a south carolina

federal court. tia, give us the latest here. is there a chance, first of all, with a venue change and we could end up back in georgia for that and how much trouble is senator or mr. graham in? >> yeah, so what fanny willis's office is saying is that the speech or debate clause which shields legislative members in congress and a lot of states from being sued as things they do as part of their job, they're saying that doesn't apply here because his efforts to overturn the election were political activities, not official senate activities. that's why they're saying we're going to make it clear that we don't think this has to do with his role as a senator by not using that honorific as we, you know, urge the judge not to quash this subpoena. so that's what they're going to court, as you said, this week about. we don't know if senator graham is the target of the investigation. three georgia-based lawmakers

have been told they are the potential targets. they could potentially be indicted. we have not heard that about senator graham. so right now it looks like he is more as a witness. they want to understand why he placed those calls to secretary of state raffensperger, what he hoped to accomplish and who else he was working with. >> okay. so tia mitchell, thank you so much for updating us on both of these stories. we appreciate it. thanks for coming on this morning. staying in georgia, former football legend and republican senate candidate from georgia herschel walker has raised eyebrows several times for his exaggerated and sometimes shocking comments. >> rambling comments, i mean at times. >> we can show them. >> here are some of the recent takes on important issues from gun control to climate change. >> you don't control the air. our good air decided to float over to china's bad air. so when china gets our good air,

they're bad air got to move. so it moves over to our good airspace and now we got to clean that back up. >> cain killed abel, you know, and that's the problem that we have. i said what we need to do is look into how we can stop those things. you know, talked about doing disinformation. what about getting a department that can look at young men that's looking at -- or women that's looking at just social media? what about doing that, looking into things like that and we can stop that that way? yet they want to just continue talking about taking away your constitutional rights. >> so now think about this. at one time science said man came from apes, did it not? >> i've -- >> you go to science -- >> every time i read that i think, you just didn't read the same bible i did. >> this is interesting though. if that is true, why are there still aprils? >> all right. you know, when i hear this, this

makes me think of like listening to donald trump saying man, person, woman, whatever he said, he sounds like daniel webster there. i listen to herschel walker and i swear i feel like i need my ovaltine decoder ring because i have no idea what he's saying. there have been conservatives to where for "the national review" who said the mere fact this guy has been selected by any major party speaks ill of this country. let's bring in the dean of colombia journalism school and staff writer for the new yorker, julani cobb's whose new piece for "the new yorker" is titled "herschel walker's deficits are not the only cause for concern." give us your take because i

don't understand his takes on climate change or evolution or anything. >> i think it is a strange them that the georgia republican party was well aware of these things well before. there was an internal resistance to him being in anything, but he had enough support from donald trump which put enough wind in his sails to make him the nominee. his obvious deficits don't need to be explained much more than those clips did. they show themselves. but the other side of it is that this is happening -- we have semi qualified, less-than-qualified, less-than-articulate candidates who run for office all the time. herschel walker happens to be doing this in a state at the center of a criminal probe about an effort to overturn an election and he would be in office ahead of the next presidential election. that has really grave implications and complications i think we should be thinking

about. there's a kind of comical element of some of his inarticulation but there's serious concerns beneath that. >> you know, your "new yorker" piece on this, does herschel walker's candidacy raise a larger issue in terms of the damage that's been done to this country via the former guy, trump? >> sure. >> i mean the celebrity aspect of it, you know, just get a famous person out there, act tough or whatever and you might get elected, too, and who can say he might not get elected? i mean anybody can become president, anybody did become president. >> sure, in polls he is about three points behind the current senator raphael warnock. he has more than a reasonable chance of being elected. in the piece i pointed out his most obvious qualifications for the senate seem to be his 5,000 rushing yards at the university of georgia. >> yeah. >> and his heisman trophy, if we think those are things that make you suitable to conduct public

policy. >> and it also seems like he had a number of revelations in recent weeks, embarrassing ones, including the number of children he did not previously admit to. are we seeing any impact on his poll numbers about that? secondly, what does it say about a republican party that seems to be compromising itself on family values to support this candidate? >> it is interesting. two things. one, it illustrates yet again the influence donald trump has on the kind of rank-and-file republicans, but statement many republicans in the georgia party understood this a long time ago. even some of the stuff about the domestic violence allegations, the kind of devastating ad launched by one of his primary opponents and that didn't stop him. it really kind of in a microcosmic way it reminds you of the trail, that series of controversies and all of the kind of outrages we saw in 2016 that didn't stop donald trump from reaching the white house. >> all right. jelani, stay with us, if you

can. a couple of other stories we would love to discuss with you. still ahead on "morning joe," sweltering heat blanketing the country but it is worse overseas where the uk has just recorded its highest temperature ever. plus, how can an activity book written by a comedian and a children's author help fight racism? we will explain when they both join us, next on "morning joe." h join us, next on "morning joe. your projects done right

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26 past the hour. it has been two years since the murder of george floyd, and the racial reckoning that followed with people taking to the streets to protest racial injustice in america. but now that the demonstrations have largely ended, how can the average person stay engaged? joining us now r.w. kamil bell and kay chats, the co-author of the new book out today entitled "do the work!" and anti-racist activity book.

>> do the work. >> do the work. >> some of them tongue planted firmly in cheek, you have the separate, but not equal cross word puzzle, one i'm looking forward to. actually, my kids and i are going to get around the table and play bootstrapping, the game. what exactly is bootstrapping, the game? >> it is about -- bootstrapping the game is about the myth of meritocracy in america, the myth about how we are all born with bootstraps and we can lift ourselves up, and some of us who look like me don't want to do that for some reason. >> yeah. you know, it is so interesting. as a former republican i always say that democrats have a problem. they scold too much on a variety of issues and at times they need to mock republicans more because that's actually how you get to people like donald trump. it seems that's exactly what you two are doing here, and i'm just

wondering, how do you come up with this great idea? who came up with the great idea? >> truthfully, we both came up with it together. we both wanted to bring a book together and when we sat down to brainstorm we both pitched an activity book. that's in large pafrt because we're both parents. speaking of knowing that scolding does not always work, you have to find other ways to get your children or your audiences engaged with difficulty des, and we were both home schooling, zoom schooling our kids during the pandemic. we thought, how can we communicate these ideas that a lot of people don't want to confront, don't want to think about? what about an activity book. >> yeah. you know, it is interesting. there's a -- mike barnicle, it is an old bruce springsteen lyric from "blinded by the light," "hit them in the finney funny bone, that's where they expect it the least." that's what this book is doing. >> yeah, if you can lighten

thing up, get ahead of it. what do we do as a nation when the other side has been working harder for a much longer time in opposition to what we're talking about here? >> well, first of all, this book is actually for all of the sides, for all of the sides. because i think we are really trying to invite people to the table who feel like i know something is wrong in this country but i can't quite put my finger on it and people who went through the racial reckoning of 2020 and think that actually it worked. what we're trying to say is that didn't work. those of us who are interested in the future of this country as a country, as a united states of america need to do the work. the only way you're going to keep -- there's books written by august people like jelani cobb, there's shows, movies, but we want people to sit down and do some work. disconnect your brain from the scariness of it and go through this book and get better at understanding racism. >> jelani, go ahead and jump in. >> well, i do have a question

for you, which is how many southern legislatures have pre-banned this book? >> it just comes out today, so let's see in a few hours. >> exactly. the first page of the book, just to show you, is a giant poster that says "end white supremacy." so i'm sure it will be popular around many southern legislatures. i do wonder about this, in all kind of seriousness, one of the things that happens is people are really uncomfortable in talking about the subject matter. i wonder if you have a kind of target audience for this or who you think the person who will pick this up will be? >> i do have a target audience. one of the things that people who know my work know about me is that i'm married to a white lady. so my target audience is my mother-in-law. my mother-in-law is a great person. she is a great-grandmother, she is awesome. she's also a person who went -- who like sewed the

hats after trump won, went to the women's march and is like, how do i help, and never thought about being an activist or anti-racist until the country got so racist. she doesn't know what to do. she already asked my wife, can i get four books for free? she's my mother-in-law so she asked. it is for white people who see the problems in the country and go, what can i do, what can i do. you can do the work. >> do the work. >> kate, obviously this is going to be -- the issues that the book addresses will be a backdrop to another presidential election which will be here before we know it. how do you see -- how can it be helpful for, say, let's say young folks who want to be able to play a role in the political process next time around? how do you think it can help inform their thinking? >> you know, one of the things we try to get across in this book is activism and change making happen on a vast spectrum. it looks like a lot of things, and i think so many of us feel

like it just looks like one thing, right. it just looks like going to a march or a demonstration or making a sign or donating money or voting, right. those are all pieces of a much larger puzzle. so if anything, i hope that this book shows people the importance of doing one thing, doing a few things, but just doing something consistently on a regular basis. so the election is far off, also not that far off. so for people who are concerned about the election, the time to get involved is now and there are so many things you can do, especially on a local level in your community to get involved. that's the kind of things we talk about in the book. you know, if electoral politics, if the election is what you are concerned about, again, start now. what is on your ballot? what campaigns do you support? what campaigns do you not want to support? this is the time to get involved and do something. >> the book is titled "do the work: an anti-racist activity book." kate [ indistinct chatter ] and w. kamil bell, thank you for

being on this morning. congratulations on the book. thank you both as well. >> we, of course, will be keeping a running tab on southern legislators. >> see how it goes there. still ahead, russia is trying to make gains in ukraine. we'll look at moscow's new effort to target weapons provided by western allies. plus, extreme heat is being felt across much of the country this week. not just the u.s., europe also seeing record-breaking heat. at one airport in the uk flights were put on pause because a runway was actually melting. we'll have the very latest on these historic temperatures. keep it right here on "morning joe." e historic temperatures. keep it right here on "morning keep it right here on "morning joe. for the all-new subway series menu the new monster has juicy steak and crispy bacon. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry!

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russia has ordered its troops to target long-range missiles and weapons recently provided to ukraine by western countries. moscow gave the order to a

battalion currently fighting in the eastern donbas region. according to the russian defense ministry, targeting the western-supplied missile systems will help shield russian troops from being shelled. this comes after the pentagon approved an $820 million weapons package for ukraine earlier this month. meanwhile, ukraine's first lady, olena zellenska is in washington d. and will meet with the first lady. she met with secretary of state antony blinken yesterday where the two discussed the growing human cost of russia's invasion of ukraine. officials say blinken assured her of america's commitment to the war-devastated country. zellenska will address congress on capitol hill tomorrow. white house chief medical

advisor dr. anthony fauci will likely retire by the end of president biden's current term in office. fauci says he does not have a specific date in mind but he told nbc news, quote, sometimes between now and then very likely will step down and move on to the next phase in my professional career, whatever that may be. as for the virus, dr. fauci has spent much of the last two years fighting the new highly contagious subvariant continues to spread across the country but experts are not as worried as they were two years ago. some health officials are avoiding issuing new restrictions hopeful vaccines and rising immunity will help fight the virus, but at least 40 states are seeing a rise in infection especially in the great plains, west and south. the number of people being hospitalized with the virus and those dying from it are also up. we will be watching that. coming up, a look at the growing

fall-out in uvalde, texas, after a scathing new report revealed failure after failure by law enforcement during the mass shooting at rob elementary school. parents and community members are demanding accountability. we will have the very latest from uvalde ahead on "morning joe." y latest y latest from uvalde ahead on "morning but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day, that's effective joe. without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight ions, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach

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[ cheers ] are we actually going? yes!! and once in a lifetime moments. two tickets to nascar! yes! find rewards like these and so many more in the xfinity app. a brutal heatwave is gripping much of the country this week, bringing misery to tens of millions of people who are suffering through oppressive triple digit, some numbers they've never felt before. it has turned deadly in europe. nbc news national correspondent miguel almaguer has the details. >> reporter: shattering records and threatening lives. this is the brutal broil baking tens of millions. >> it is sweltering, and what is the worst is there's no air moving. >> reporter: the blistering heatwave turning much of the

nation into an oven. 141 million people experiencing temperatures above 90 degrees, 51 million sweltering in triple digits. >> i make sure to bring water, take breaks. >> reporter: setting records across much of the country, heat alerts for at least 20 states from california to mississippi. salt lake city tying their all-time high sunday, 107 degrees. memphis, houston and san antonio having their hottest summers on record. >> without a doubt it is a life and death situation. >> reporter: dallas hitting 106, where michael steve, suffering from chronic health problems and living on a fixed income, could face a deadly summer. >> i don't have central air and it would have me at over 100 degrees inside of the house. >> reporter: in fresno, california, where it will be triple digits all week, the fire department is responding to dozens of calls for heat exhaustion. >> how quickly can this weather

turn deadly? >> you know, it could be -- depending on your age it could be within a half hour. >> in scottsdale a ring camera captured a delivery driver collapsing in the heat. record temperature and historic drought forcing cash-strapped cattle ranchers to sell their herds, which will inevitably drive up beef prices later this year. >> they're out of grass, out of water, nobody is making hay. >> reporter: the uk is poised to be hotter than 90% of the planet, up to 40 degrees above average forcing the closure of airport airways crumbling in the summer weather. our nation feeling the heat with the hottest weeks still to come. >> all right. that was nbc's miguel almaguer with that report. joe, we will look at numbers in europe. this is -- for some areas it is apocalyptic. people are dying from the heat. >> yeah, yeah. no, it really is. i mean

record-breaking heat in texas, as we've heard. temperatures getting up well over 100. you actually had a meteorologist what, at krtk, travis herzog, was doing the 3:00 news and talking about the weather and said it was so hot that the power grid might not be able to handle it. while he was talking the studio went dark. texas, the texas power grid. >> frightening. >> once again not able to handle the crush here. can't handle the heat in texas. like you said, in europe people are dying. the temperatures keep going up, records keep being broken, and yet we have seen one poll after another where -- >> i know. >> -- people are unmoved and congress is doing nothing despite the fact we're in the middle of this dire crisis which, you know, we're going to look back on 10, 20 years from

now, and people are going to just ask what the hell were we doing, why did we do nothing. >> i mean this is -- this is often with many issues frustrating. i mean we saw this with things like covid. it took a lot time for people to see it. but this is right in our face. if you look at -- i mean if you look at what is going on in europe, get ready. temperatures in britain are expected to reach 104 degrees today. that's a peak for britain according to "the washington post." not seen since modern record keeping began a century and a half ago. this comes the morning after the country's warmest ever night, and record temperatures on monday with flights at luton airport were stopped after the heat melted the runway. hello. much of the uk is under its first warning of extreme heat, meaning there is danger of death even for healthy people. hot weather has gripped southern

europe since last week, triggering wildfires in spain, portugal and france. over 1,100 heat -- 1,100 heat-related deaths have been reported in spain and portugal as temperatures there have reached as high as 117 degrees. this is called burning up. >> yeah, the planet is burning up. gene robinson, of course idiots next week when temperatures go down will go, see, it is gone, it has passed. >> yeah, right. >> average temperatures for this planet, we keep breaking records every year. >> yeah. >> this is undeniable. >> right. >> and yet, again, americans are unmoved. congress is doing nothing. it is really depressing. all i will say is you hear from mika's script this. it is so hot in britain, cold, rainy britain right where you worked. i'm sure in july there were many days you were wearing an

overcoat because it was raining and 50 degrees. >> practically, yes. >> it was so hot in britain yesterday that an airport runway melted and they had to stop flights. >> yeah, this is just ridiculous. the idea of triple digit in bri absurd. it just doesn't happen. it didn't happen when i was over there. and as you say, and in a july day, you could be mutting on a sweater certainly and it was the forecast, weather forecast were always the same. either sunshine with periods of rain or rain with periods of sunshine. that is the only two forecasts. but it was always cool. nobody in britain has air-conditioning. because you don't need it. but you need it now. and you're going to need it in the future. and the thing is this is tragic because this is going to get worse. we know it is going to get worse. we know this is not going away.

it is getting worse and worse and worse and we're doing nothing about it. it is -- we will be condemned and cursed by future generations for our stupidity in not addressing climate change, trying to arrest it and not even effectively adapting to climate change which is happening now. we're going to have to deal with this if we stopped emitting carbon tomorrow, we still have to deal with the accumulated carbon we've put in the atmosphere and the way it is warming the planet. and we're doing basically none of that. it is just a tragedy. it really is. >> and it was only a couple of weeks ago that the g7 met in europe in germany. a g7 that was supposed to be dedicated to fighting climate change. the 7 wealthiest democracies ban

together and none of that happened, and it was overshattered by russian's invasion of ukraine and more need for more fossil fuels to make up for the oil that is being taken away from the market because russia is -- no one is buying russian oil right now. at least not these democracies. so that is in stark contrast. to try to combat climate change to derail other events and that is why to the frustration of the bide, shifting domestically, they had hoped in the new reconciliation package they could pass through democrats that there would be significant climate change provisions. that is not going to happen because of joe manchin who put the kibosh on that. and he said maybe we could visit climate change measures down the road and let's see the inflation numbers first. but certainly white house aides i talked to last night not holding their breath that will

happen and instead the president looking to take executive measures and they couldn't go nearly as far as an act from congress. >> mika, we break new records every year. >> i know. it is frightening. >> last year was one of the hottest years ever observed. 25 countries broke records for the hottest year ever. this is not cyclical. the past seven years have been the hottest seven years ever recorded. and so, again, things just keep getting worse. and you know, you look at what is happening in china, you look at what is happening in india and look at other countries that are industrializing at a rapid pace and look at the fact that we have done better over the past 20 years sore so but

we're still just 4.5% of the population and probably contributing i think 20% to the carbon footprint. we have to work collectively as -- >> with the world. >> with our allies, with the world. because, again, every year gets worse. and by the way, this doesn't just impact you if you're in blue states. this impacts you if you're in red states, this impacts you if you're in california, this impacts you if you're in texas. >> it is like covid. >> yeah. wherever. it is like covid. and where you look at the rates of where people died at a higher rate, and it's not hard to pick out those trends. we need to act. and i just don't know what it is going to take for congress to do something. and i'm not saying this because of joe biden -- because of joe

manchin and what he did in the past couple of days. he needs to step it up because he said he would do something about this. i'm saying this not just because of what happened yesterday, but what's happened over the past year, what has happened over the past decade. >> absolutely. >> we have to move. we're out of time. we are not running out of time. we're out of time. >> coming up, opening arguments are scheduled to begin today in steve bannon's criminal context of congress trial. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams will join us with what we could expect from court resumes in just a few minutes from now. "morning joe" is coming right back. now [ heavy breathing ] [ heavy breathing ] [ heavy breathing ] [ ominous music playing ] "morning joe" is coming right back

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and welcome back to "morning joe." it is 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. and as we roll into the fourth hour of "morning joe," it is 6:00 a.m. out west. these are live pictures of san francisco at this hour. >> i promise you. >> it really is. >> the fog has rolled off the pacific in san francisco. >> and it is 6:00, time to wake up and get to work. we have a lot to get to this hour. two former white house aides are expected to testify on thursday's prime time hearing as the january 6 committee focuses on what donald trump was doing as a mob of his supporters assaulted the capitol. plus, opening arguments are set to get underway in steve bannon contempt of congress trial as jury selection wraps up and nbc's pete williams will have the very latest for us. also ahead, "wall street journal" reporting that air travel is broken in the u.s. with pilot