getting up "way too early" on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. whether they were lost in the story because of negligence or willfully we have yet to determine, but there's a very strong conflict between what we're hearing from the inspector general, the department of homeland security and what the secret service is telling the public. a big development for the january 6th committee. it will not get the text messages from the secret service, from the day leading up to and the day of the capitol attack. >> how convenient. >> yeah. >> i mean, come on. >> it is incredible. >> adam schiff whether it was through negligence -- this wasn't through negligence. you don't burn papers. >> we'll get there. >> at pearl harbor from correspondents on december 6th, 1941. and december 7th, 1941. you don't burn papers. you don't shred papers. they know what they were doing. this is just -- i mean, i think

they have to be presumed -- you can't presume that this was just something that happens with a bureaucratic snafu, this is outrageous. >> well, the explanation for the quote, lost data sounds more suspicious this morning based on a new time line from lawmakers, julia insley is standing by with more on this story. plus, new subpoenas for supporters of former president trump. good news out of fulton county, georgia. nearly a dozen fake elects from one state could face criminal charges for election interference. things are heating up. meanwhile, trump hasn't given up on overturning the election he lost, apparently. a wisconsin lawmaker says the former president called him just this month, following a court ruling on ballot drop boxes. also, vladimir putin takes his first significant foreign trip since the invasion of ukraine as the russian president looks for an ally in a nation

also isolated from the west. and the bidens meet with ukraine's first lady at the white house olena zalenska will address congress later today. we're going to cover all of that. and a lot more on this wednesday, july 20th. welcome to "morning joe." with joe and me, we have the host of "way too early" and white house chief at politico jonathan lemire. and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments elise jordan. good to have you both with us. we're going to start with the secret service text messages. the secret service now saying those messages that may have been able to corroborate some or all of the events of january 6 are likely gone forever. >> they erased them. >> after being issued a subpoena by the house select committee investigating the attack, the agency had until yesterday to turn over its records from january 5th and 6th of 2021. that it said had been

accidentally erased. but after initially being hopeful that the data could be recovered, committee member stephanie murphy revealed otherwise. >> we received a letter that did provide us with documents and data, however we did not receive the text messages that we were looking for. they received four requests from congressional committees on january 16th to preserve records. and they had this planned migration for the 25th, i believe, of january. and nobody along the way stopped and thought, well, maybe we shouldn't do the migration of data and of the devices until we are able to fulfill these full requests from congress. >> that -- i was just going to say -- i've got to the say, jonathan lemire, that's absolutely outrageous when you have the department of homeland

security's inspector general like also wanting to get the information. and he told the house committee last week that the secret service failed to provide him all material for dhs' own probe into the capitol attack. so archives is going to investigate whether there's unauthorized deletion of these text messages. they're going to give the secret service 30 days to give them a report. but, man, i've got to say, jonathan, this is outrageous. again -- let's -- to put this in perspective, let's talk about the environment in washington, d.c. the environment around the white house. the environment around the capitol. right after the president of the united states tried to overthrow a presidential election. tried to overthrow a

constitutional government. and they decide, oh, you know what, now would be a great time to delete the text messages from the day before when he was planning this overthrow of the federal government. and the day of, when he actually tried to have the mob stop the counting. and tabulation of the electors. this is beyond outrageous, jonathan. >> here, the words "cover-up" continue to be uttered here. it's hard to offer any sort of explanation. it does seem that the secret service's efforts to turn over the messages, there was the maintenance with the phones, that was scheduled for the end of january. and they had received a request to preserve records a solid week to ten days prior to that date of migration was set to begin. january 5th and 6th happened.

the request came in ten days after. the device migration didn't start until a week after that. there's no excuse, officials that i talked to saying there's no excuse that that migration wasn't paused and those records weren't preserved. to your point, joe, you're right. we've lived with january 6th so long it's important to feel the atmosphere and environment around the insurrection in the days immediately after the attack. and in the immediate hours afterwards, after the senate went ahead and certified joe biden's win there were already calls, not just for donald trump's impeachment, but to have a fully comprehensive investigation as to what happened, what led to it and what went wrong. and the actions of the secret service, of course, are part of that. and yet those records still disappeared. and nothing -- the committee is now deprived of important information that would corroborate not just what pled trumble was up to that but the circumstances surrounding vice president pence and efforts to

evacuate him from the capitol from the mob trying to kill him. >> and they destroyed, elise, the records of the people who work for the united states government that was around the guy that was running a fascist takeover of the united states government to get their text messages to get the information on the inside, what was going on, while this fascist attempt to overthrow american democracy was playing out, while it was planned on the 5th and while it was playing out on the 6th. everybody in washington knew the import of those records. of those two days. the importance of getting everything together on january 5th and 6th. this is -- this is just, on its face, it's bad faith. and i can't believe if they're ignoring a request from congress, i can't believe, if

they're destroying documents, despite what an inspector general is asking that there aren't criminal charges attached to this. >> joe, i'm just not going to dismiss at hand, though, the possibility that the government is just completely broken and can't do anything right here. you look at just how bumbling an idiot -- you know, thisis idiocracy that they go ahead with this migration and it seems like utter stupidity and the incompetence of a government bureaucracy. and the fact that this happened and they've known about it for a while and there wasn't any immediate attempt. i think it's been a year or so that they've known that these records weren't transferred. and yet, now, it comes into the focal spotlight but it take the

urgency andanded me yhency to c. >> it's hard to believe somebody saying we need to preserve these days and if there's a plan or anything on a technical calendar, doesn't matter. >> let's put it in context. >> i got it. >> let's put it in context. because it's very easy for us to talk about this. but put it in context. >> i know. >> on january 6th, donald trump teamed a fascist takeover of american democracy. on january 6th, secret service members were ordered by him to go up to the capitol. so he could take part in the fascist takeover of american democracy. >> where violence was under way. >> according to testimony before

the committee and corroborated by others, donald trump lunged and grabbed the steering wheel and lunged at a secret service member's neck telling him to take him up to the capitol. and that -- that was known within secret service circles. and now, of course, the trumpers that he put in place in the secret service, that politicized the secret service was reported, now, they're denying it. as in the past with donald trump, everybody knows they're lying, but now we're supposed to think that would we have text messages that would back this up from the secret service, we're supposed to think it's a. bureaucratic snafu.

it doesn't work that way. >> no, it's too late. >> they knew, again, this is like the days after pearl harbor. it's like the days after pearl harbor, the people running radar are burning all their documents. >> right. >> at the base there. nobody would believe that was a bureaucratic snafu. it was the destruction of documents that could help us better understand why unfolded as a president who defeated at the polls was attempting a fascist takeover of american democracy. >> and was having a huge fit. there is new reporting to back all of this up. and just to all of your points from "the guardian" from hugo lowell revealing that the secret service turned over just one text message to the january 6th panel. he also reports on the time line that we've been discussing, quote, house investigators also learned that the texts were seemingly lost as part of an agency-wide reset of the phones

on january 27th, 2021. the sources said that's 11 days after, after, congress first requested the communications. and two days after agents were reminded to back up their phones. come on. let's bring in nbc news correspondent julia ansley. she covers the department of justice and the department of homeland security. julia, what more can you add to this? and also, what are the potential next steps here? are there going to be questions asked by the department of justice? >> well, the questions that you all are asking are exactly the questions i think dhs is asking internally today as well as the department of justice. what we understand, or what i understand from my reporting, is that the question here is what was actively deleted and what disappeared. and what could have been done to preserve these records. as we've now learned it wasn't just the dhs inspector general. there were now four requests from congress immediately after january 6th to preserve the text

messages. 93 were flooding in the door. instead, they go forward with this planned migration. and here's the key here. agents were told that they would upload material to a server to be preserved, but a lot of people didn't do that. in other words, rather than going through and actively deleting perhaps it's a step they did not take. you have to think, of course, there should have been someone actively going through and preserving this, considering the magnitude of the importance of these messages and the fact that there have been so many requests. as we've talked about before, when you get a request like this, people in washington know. people in the government should know, you immediately preserve those records if they're in your possession at the time of the request. if those had been deleted as part of routine maintenance during -- way before the request and they simply weren't in their possession, that's another thing but if they're in your possession at the time of request they're expected to be preserved. that will be looked at it's often something that lawyers use

in civil litigation when they can't get discovery, materials they want through discovery. we did hear from alejandro mayorkas last night. he was speaking to nbc's tremendous mayne lee, saying he defended the secret service, probably not over his skis on this but saying that the planned migration was planned well before january 2021. but the planning of it aside, of course, as you all point out, doesn't change the fact that these messages appear to zrb have been deleted after the requests were coming in. those actions are becoming more and more firm as we saw that first from the director of homeland security general, and his committee and now it's clear that those came in before the deletion as well. mayorkas says he doesn't expect dhs to disclose any more over time but i think it's disruptive to the committee and americans

this morning that we don't know more than we ever know. from such a key agency that was so close to the very innerworkings, the president's thoughts, what was happening with the vice president on that crucial day in american history, mika. >> what was happening with the movement of the vice president. the attempted movement of the vice president. what was happening with the president although was trying to join the mob on capitol hill. >> sure looks and feels like -- >> it doesn't look and feel. it is, jonathan lemire, i know you have a question. but first, i just want to say, again, jonathan, following a key event, i mean, you know, i've worked -- i've worked in government. you know, you would -- even as a member, chief of staff would go around if there was something requested. and would tell everybody, hey, get your data together. get your information together. protect it. i mean, this is what happens. not only in government. this is what happens in the private sector, when people

demand document requests. you know, if you destroyed information, there's liability attached to it here. and, again, this whole idea, i mean, did the director of dhs really say, oh, well, this is planned. everything is -- i mean -- i'm sure somebody planned to have tea and crumpets on the white house lawn like, you know, between -- you know, i'm sure that they planned to have some very nice get-together between the president and the incoming president. or they had other things planned under normal circumstances. that presidents do when they're turning over the reins of power to an incoming president. just not applicable here. nothing's applicable here. this was -- this was the first time that we had somebody who lost an election trying to

overthrow the government. trying to overthrow election results. trying to throw out tens of millions of votes so he could -- so, through violence, he could maintain power. the secret service knows exactly what they're doing. why do we have somebody running the department who's pretending like there's nothing to see here, move along, move along. >> tea and crumpets not served at the white house since the war of 1812 but setting that aside, joe, it is -- records here need to be preserved for all matters, even trivial ones, that's the point. >> exactly. >> government records have to be kept. this is far from trivial. this is a significant moment in american history and again even if that data migration was preplanned there was time to stop it. there was time to save the records and because that didn't happen, that is why there's such a cover-up. we know in washington how important it is to maintain

records. i seem to recall a presidential campaign conducted not that long ago all about missing emails. so this is something certainly in the forefront of people's minds here. julia, two questions for you you can give us a quick update, are there any efforts or avenues with the committee or other investigative bodies could use to restore the records or they indeed gone for good? and whether or not they are, do people from the secret service take the fall for this? is there punishment coming at secret service or dhs for what seems like a cover-up or at least gross incompetence? >> well, great question, jonathan. it appears from what we learned yesterday that they're gone. these cannot be recovered. the next steps from the national archives, to go through and see what actually happened here, holding the people responsible for their disappearance who are responsible. figure out exactly what should have happened an what wasn't followed.

that's why you bring in the national archives who are the experts on records preservation on a situation like that. but they're not, they have to restore the text messages at this point those appear to be lost. of course, we have the committee to compel testimony, that may be what they can get for people to recall the conversations but of course it's not as strong as getting the realtime minute-by-minute exchange of dialogue and perhaps fears between the secret service agents on that key day. and then as far as any kind of accountability, yes, we do believe that the department of homeland security inspector general is going to keep looking into exactly who is responsible for this. what steps weren't taken. could it be a matter of negligence. i think the key of all of this here, maybe it sounds like it's getting too into the weeds but i actually think it's part of the bigger picture, it's that is there a step taken to destroy the information? or is it that there were steps simply never taken and it's really a matter of negligence

and incompetence like elise was saying? is it just a matter of a bumbling government agency one that has been embroiled in scandal. one that's been absorbed into this larger agency where a lot of people argue it doesn't get the oversight it needs and deserves, given its role in the american government, is that what's going on here or something more malicious. we've heard time and time again, secret service agents on the record saying this is not malicious. i think time will tell as the investigation continues. >> julia, thank you so much for being with us. greatly appreciate it. >> yeah. >> you know, meek kargs, i just don't believe it's not malicious. it is malicious. nobody's that stupid, not even bureaucrats that are the worst of the worst. are that stupid. nd especially when -- >> i think more will come out. >> especially when there are books written about how donald trump politicized the secret service. >> yeah. well in a statement yesterday, the secret service says it will

continue to, quote, scrutinize its records to ensure full compliance with the house january 6 probe including takes steps such as forensic investigations and other investigative -- >> it's a little late. you deleted -- you deleted the texts that would have shown us realtime correspondence with people who were getting choked by donald trump. people that were like, you know, having to try to protect the life of a vice president from the mob that donald trump was sending his way. tweeting out, we would have seen that in realtime, mika. it would have all been revealed. and this agency which needs a top-to-bottom review, top-to-bottom, and everybody on -- on the top level should be fired for this. everybody. everybody. this is not about the secret service. this is not about donald trump. this is about american

democracy. we need transparency. we need accountability. and the secret service decided protecting donald trump is more important than protecting american democracy. i can't imagine, i can't imagine, how the department of justice wouldn't launch an investigation today. hey merrick wake up, hey, merrick garland, wake up. hey, merrick, wake up. investigate this cover-up. let me put it in stark terms for you, in case you're afraid to break marcus of queensbury rules in boxing there was an attempted fascist overthrow of american democracy. the people, the taxpayers pay to protect the presidency, not donald trump, but the presidency, they destroyed text

messages that would have taken us to the heart of the fascist conspiracy to overthrow american democracy. this isn't a normal day office, merrick. this isn't a normal day at the office for the head of dhs. this is a cover-up of a fascist takeover of american democracy. that failed. and it failed in part, it failed in part because some secret service members did the right thing. did the right thing. they didn't take the president up to the capitol. but now they're lying about it. we need the truth. >> well, it's not over. >> we need the truth. >> one could come forward. >> by the way, by the way, if trump's lackees inside the secret service keep lying, they need to be charged with perjury,

they need to be convicted, they need to be thrown in jail, if they're not going to help americans get to the bottom of this farcist overthrow of american democracy that failed, it's ridiculous. coming up on "morning joe," we have much more related to the january 6th investigation including what we can expect -- >> there's the fascist, by the way, there's the fascist who tried to overthrow american democracy. >> and doesn't care who loses their job. >> who doesn't care who lives, who dies it's the guy that set up january 6, he's sitting around, eating, getting fatter, on jets, playing golf, while working class americans believe his lie. the jim and tammy faye bakker of our time, they're sitting in jail now because they believe his fascist lies to try to

overthrow the federal government. >> so, we'll talk more about what we can expect from tomorrow's hearing. the prime time hearing, as two former white house staffers give accounts of what happened inside the west wing that day. >> wake up, merrick. plus, he thought he was above the law. that's what federal prosecutors told jurors about former trump adviser steve bannon. we'll have more on his contempt trial. he was angry yesterday. >> oh, poor, baby. one of his shirts got stained. and a reporting on a potential standoff between germany and russia connected to a vital fuel pipeline. >> by the way, steve bannon, there's a guy if you called him a fascist, he takes it as a compliment. if somebody said you play bass like -- i'd say, really -- but steve bannon, you're a fascist -- he'd say well thank you very much. we'll be right back. thank you very much. you very much. we'll be right back.♪

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welcome back. 29 past the hour. fulton county prosecutors have issued subpoenas to the 16 trump loyalists who worked as fake georgia electors in 2020. the move was made public by a court filing from lawyers from nearly a dozen of them asking for a judge to rule against the subpoenas. the lawyers argue that fulton county district attorney fani willis, her office initially said their clients were witnesses, not subjects or targets of the investigation. and that the electors had agreed to voluntarily interview them with a team of investigating election interference, beginning in april. according to the attorneys, the electors had the right to cast contingent electoral votes. drawing similarities between the 2020 actions and those made by democratic electors in the judicially contested 1960

presidential contest between jfk and richard nixon. the case stems from a plan devised after president biden won the state of georgia and its 16 electoral votes. some of the former president's advisers created groups of alternate electors in swing states with false allegations of voter fraud. nbc news has reached out to the fulton county district attorney's office for comment. and it feels, joe, like things are really heating up in fulton county. >> yeah, they really are. jonathan lemire, we've been talking about the inaction and other -- in other parts of this conspiracy by the justice department. but certainly can say that the d.a. of fulton county that case continues to move forward. it's moving forward actively. they're asking all the right questions. they're subpoenaing all of the right witnesses. and it appears that right now,

you at least have one officer, one d.a., who actually knows what they're doing. >> yeah, certainly, joe, there's been a lot of frustration among democratic circles here in washington about the department of justice. you don't hear that about the fulton county d.a. the district attorney there has been extremely aggressive in subpoenaing members of congress even. let's remember, we just talked yesterday about how senator lindsey graham is trying to fight efforts there because of a phone call he made to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger asking about ballots and whether or not some should be tossed out and donald trump's call to raffensperger is at the heart of this particular investigation. and now, the scope has broadened and we're hearing about this alternate set of electors which just to remind viewers were part of the trump world plan, all of those memos being thrown around the white house in the days and weeks after the election to try to get an alternate set of

electors seated for the battleground states. for the plan being come january 6th in the battleground states to point out, hey, we got elector to say biden won, sure. and some that say trump won, if that's the case, well, donald trump would get re-elected and mike pence would certify that. that, of course, did not come to be, it was farcical at best and which is why it's gotten at d.a. attention. >> and it will cooperate with the subpoena by the fulton county. and senator graham will file a future challenge. the court filing challenges any future that senator graham will make will be made in georgia. the last argument was made in his native south carolina committee fulton county d.a. said was improper. senator graham will answer questions related to phone calls he made to georgia secretary of

state brad raffensperger and his staff about georgia's 2020 election ballots. and, joe, my question for you, what could be worse than the call the president made? i mean, what more do they need? find me, find me 795 more votes -- >> that's what the kids call a smoking gun. elise jordan, you have the georgia secretary of state saying it can't be -- find me one more vote. and then you have lindsey graham calling up the georgia secretary of state, who, by the way, voted for trump, life long republican, loyal republican his entire life. and he out and out says lindsey graham was trying to get me -- i have the impression lindsey graham was trying to get me to throw out legally cast votes. it's frick and frac. they stumbled into the wrong fascist conspiracy together. and they talked to the wrong guy

because raffensperger has the receipts. >> first of all, joe, i have to say, i agree with mika, what else do you need than the president himself calling and saying can't you just, you know, finagle a few more votes for me? and then the lindsey graham element. and the smalltown mississippi girl thinks, wow, this is expensive to be donald trump's friend and plotting to dismantle a free and fair election at this stage with graham being called now into georgia. and he's going to have to, you know, go before the court and talk about what his role was. and you know, what is the point at the end of the day for these republicans who have just sullied themselves to help, you know, help donald trump -- trump's fantasy, his coup fantasy. and that's where we are. and luckily, georgia, they have prosecutors and the d.a. is

taking this seriously. and they're trying to have accountability. and to take it seriously when someone tries to steal an election. >> yeah. well, former president trump, you guys, apparently, is still at it. still trying to overturn the 2020 election that he lost. that everybody around the world knows he lost. >> well, that everybody inside the white house knew he lost. >> and they knew at the time that he lost. >> that's why he started calling in mr. pillow and -- >> trying to make up stuff. >> and sidney powell, kraken lady who ginni thomas thinks -- it's sad. very sad. anti-democratic. >> it's a strange need not to be seen as a loser, well, when you lose, you lose. wisconsin's republican house speaker robin voss said the former president called him

earlier this month earlier this month urging him to -- earlier this month. >> oh, man, get a life. get a life. >> to take back wisconsin's electoral college votes for president biden. get a life. >> and when did you talk to former president trump? >> last week. >> before or after he tweeted? >> before. >> what was that conversation like? >> it's very consistent. he makes his case which i respect. he would like to us do something different in wisconsin. i explained that it's not allowed in wisconsin. he has a different opinion. he put the tweet out. >> oh, my god. >> my god. >> i explained that it's not allowed under the constitution. he has a different opinion. >> trump has claimed the recent wisconsin supreme court ruling that the decision on the use of drop boxes is that the legislature, not the state's election commission would have retroactively changed the outcome of the 2020 election. the former president has alleged

with no evidence that drop boxes were used in wisconsin to rig the race against him. >> he needs to get a hobby. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. >> this is bad. this happens to retirees sometimes, they move to florida. they lose -- no, they lose meaning in their life. and they're wandering and, you know, some -- here's the thing. >> okay. >> here's the thing. >> okay. >> some pick up shuffle board. >> right. >> that's all right to pick up shuffle board. >> bingo. >> some do like bingo. bingo is very popular. and you can get swept up in the excitement of bingo. >> oh, my gosh, pickle ball. >> pickle ball is another. >> my friend jackie loves pickle ball. >> well, and this is something again that a senior who is on, let's just say the back nine of his life and has failed at just about everything he's ever tried, maybe they can pick up

pickle ball. canasta. my grandparents loved that. and then -- what's that other thing -- what is that -- >> it's a card game. if you're in florida -- >> marjon. >> if you're a retiree in georgia, you know it. okay. >> these are noble pursuits of retirement that somebody could pick up but continuing to attempt to overthrow american democracy. through a fascist takeover of congress. and continuing those efforts, you know, a year and a half later. that's not cool. >> yeah. >> and if you're a florida retiree and you're thinking that this is going to go well for you, well, look at your tv screen and understand. sometimes you have to let it go

and the immortal words of american poet don henley, don't back -- >> well, instead of -- >> hold on, hold on, we need to pause here. the dramatic pause, don't look back. you can never look back. >> i just want to say for the record if donald trump tried to play pickle ball, jackie would beat him. >> that wouldn't work. that wouldn't work. now, there are -- by the way, there are people who are dead because of what this florida retiree tried to do on january 6th. and let me say this, and maybe people will disagree with me, there are good people that are sitting in jail right now. that were swept up by the lies of this man.

who actually believed they were coming to washington, d.c. to save american democracy. they bought into it. i saw this first hand, jim and tammy faye bakker, they would lie on television to get my grandmother's money. my grandmother loved the lord. and jim and tammy faye bakker used the love of jesus christ to get her social security checks from her. much as you're seeing this man on the television right now used good americans' love of this country to rile them up, to buy into lies, to come up to washington, d.c., and to storm the capitol because he kept telling them that the election was rigged.

mika, the consequences have been deadly. consequences -- for too many -- sand too many lives having shattered. and they've been shattered because of that man. because of his lies. >> trump released a statement in response to vos which reads in part, quote, i don't know his opponent in the upcoming primary but feel certain he will do well if speaker vos doesn't move with gusto, robin, don't let the voters of wisconsin down. god. >> just like he beat governor kemp and raffensperger. >> yeah. okay. that's painful. he can't let go. >> no. can't let go. coming up, a potential doomsday scenario for europe, surrounding the shutdown of a major fuel pipeline connecting germany and russia. we'll dig into what might be a signal. vladimir putin is moving to a full-scale energy war with the west wing that could bring down the global economy. plus, the latest from the

fighting in eastern europe, as russia plans to annex more territory in ukraine. okay, is that going to be allowed to happen? the country's former president petro poroshenko is our guest on "morning joe" this morning. we'll be right back. "morning joe" this morning "morning joe" this morning we'll be right back. when uc got unpredictable,... i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. check. when uc held me back... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting, steroid-free remission. and a chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check. check. and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older...

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joining us now from germany, senior national correspondent for cnbc brian sullivan. brian, can putin do this? and what would the ramifications be? >> reporter: hi, mika, yeah, we're in langanfeld, germany, telling the story, yes, he could do this, will he? we don't flow. the next 24, 48 hours is critical to not only germany but the world. germany is the fourth biggest economy in the world. it's the biggest economy by far, and steel mills like this require natural gas to heat that metal up to 1700 degrees which is what you need, by the way. so, that's why we're here. the reality is this, tomorrow, we are expected, hopefully, to get the nord stream pipeline from russia to germany back online. but i want to make it very clear, guys, that even if it comes back, even if they restart it.

it's not if, it's how much. it's unlikely russia is going to restart it to 100% flow if they go 40% which is where they were before, germany is still at a race to fill up its natural gas why which why do we care in america? we care because this is putin playing games, playing sort of puppet master, if you will, with germany, which, by the way, hellet cole, if we're going all the way back in heim, remember that name, helmet cole, he said we should use russian gas bought not more than 25%. germany went to 25% of its that gas coming from russia coming from putin, now that gas is at rick. i snow it's a little wonky, the economists put it on their cover, if that pipeline does not come back tomorrow and there's no indication when it will, you'll see germany immediately ration gas, shut down industries, businesses maybe like this one, and force people

to save gas for winter. it's a dire and scary situation for the next 24 to 48 hours. >> all right. cnbc's brian sullivan. we'll be watching this, not wonky at all. >> let me ask you, brian, brian, are german leaders talking right now to russian officials? obviously, there's great tension between zelenskyy and germany's leaders, because they have forged an economic alliance with russia that zelenskyy feels is getting in the way of them defending democracy. but is germany trying to talk this through with russia? >> reporter: not directly, joe. but i'm going to give you the craziest story that involved everything you just talked about. all right. the nord stream pipeline was down in part because one of its turbines, this big engine, basically, had to be sent to canada to be fixed.

the turbine is german by siemens, the german company. they can only repair it in canada. they had to take it out of the russian pipeline but canada can't take it because of sanctions so it had to go to germany and come back. the canadian people were ticked off at justin trudeau saying we've got these sanctions on russia and now you're allowing a canadian factory to repair one of the machines that makes vladimir putin's energy monopoly operate. but trudeau apologized basically blaming it on germany, germany asked to do it, to keep the gas flowing. vladimir putin has germany on a string, guys, and he's kind of playing with that tap to see how much the west will get back. he's ticked off with ukraine and weapons systems and whatever, he's messing with that and putting literally lives at risk

in germany. if there's not enough gas in the winter, you've got people at high risk, risk of freezing to death. this is not fearmongering, this is not my words, read "the new york times," the economist, it's the story happening in the next 24 to 48 hours. guys. >> thank you so much, brian. >> thank you, brian. >> appreciate the reporting. my god, so much at stake right now. let's get more insight from a man who will knows very well the issues that brian was talking about and that all of the eastern and central europe are grappling with right now. let's bring in poland's former foreign minister and minister of defense, he's the current member of the european parliament and shares with the delegations were the united states. thank you for being with us. >> good morning. >> let's just start. we'll talk just legacies and history a bit here for a second. angela merkel has been seen for

some time as an era-shaping chancellor of germany. how much is her legacy damaged by her overreliance on russian oil and natural gas? >> the simultaneous building of nord stream and shutting down germany's nuclear industry was clearly a mistake. but the pipeline, remember, is a secondary issue. the nord stream mentioned built, there are other pipelines if russia wants to sell germany gas it can do it through the pipeline that goes from ukraine from slovakia and the czech republic. the only purpose of nord stream is to enable russia's war on ukraine. and to deliver the gas directly to germany. our response to this should be that the european europe should

buy its gas jointly from suppliers. the way we buy uranium. then we can be the largest customer for putin's gas. and then we can get the security of supply at a competitive price, because that's key, too. >> yeah. let's talk about what's been happening in poland over the past six months or so. and let me just start with a personal observation. my daughter went over, worked, worked in poland, and worked on the border. spent about a month over there this summer. and was just absolutely blown away by the polish people. how extraordinary they were in helping ukrainians and how welcoming they were. talk about what the past six months, the past nine months, has meant to poland, not just as

indispensable ally of the united states, but just for poland itself that's been through so much over the past 100 years. >> well, it's actually very simple. we feel that if putin succeeds in conquering ukraine, he'll come for us next. so the ukrainians are fighting our fight. and the least we can do is protect their women and children. and, yes, we've taken in 3 million refugees into our homes. i have ten ukrainian refugees in my home at a certain moment. the men, many of them, have gone back to fight. and we hope there will be -- they'll succeed. and push the russians out. and then women and children will be able to go back. but, yes, solidarity is a word that we value a lot in poland. and i'm very proud of my nation that we've shown the hospitality

to the ukrainians. >> it's incredible. >> and for people, mika, i'm too old, and too young to remember the importance of solidarity what happened in 1980 and 1981. it was a democratic revolution that began in poland. and still is, that solidarity, extraordinary. go ahead, i'm sorry. >> of course, mika's father and my friend is a good friend of ukraine. and appreciated ukraine's importance of the balance of power in europe. you no, pro-western and pro-european and ukraine is the best insurance policy against the revival of russian imperialism. >> and by the way, if professor

brzezinski was still with us, he would agree with you. so, we get conflicting signals whether from british intelligence, whether it's from pentagon intelligence, whether it's the continent, about how well the russians are doing. one week, we hear from british intelligence that their supplies are being exhausted, that their manpower is drying up. and that they just can't continue this war. and then a week later, we'll hear a conflicting report. you're on the ground. you're right next door to it. i know you know so much about this conflict and what's going on in this war. what can you tell us? what is your best assessment of the current situation militarily on the ground there? >> well, first of all, russia has already lost strategically. in four months putin has called for two new countries to apply

to join nato. and two new countries, ukraine and moldova have become members of the european union. regarding the military situation, putin has lost the battle for kharkiv, and he's lost and suffering himself and he's suffering a logistical collapse of his armies. and then having to go to the iranians to buy iranian drones -- come on, russia is supposed to have a first class army. and now -- and they can't coordinate their actions at sea and in the air. they don't even have air domination over ukraine. and ukraine is now successfully attacking russian armed depots, munition depots, demand posts. i think the russians are capable of maybe one more push.

and then i think they will have lost this war. >> so, radek, at the same time, we're hearing reports that they want to annex more parts of ukraine, bullet crimea, is this even in the realm of possibilities? and how long can the ukrainians manage dragging out this war, trying to run the russians down, this strategy? >> well, the russians can announce, they will, it will have no legal standings, we don't recognize conquests in europe. and the issue will be settled by whether or not they can get the country back and that will depend on how much we help them. we're very grateful in europe to the united states for the package of economic and above all military assistance to ukraine. we, the european union, are doing a lot, too. we just voted in the european

parliament another billion euros for ukraine. poland, britain, others are rallying around to help ukraine. this will be decided on the battlefield. and if we are to see reforms in russia, putin's armies have to be defeated in ukraine. >> all right. former polish foreign minister radek sikorsky, radek, always good to see you. thank you very much for this update and analysis. it is now exactly the top of the hour on this wednesday, july 20th. just ahead, we have new reports on donald trump's potential bid to retake the white house and why it could back fire. plus, why democrats want to help trump-backed candidates get nominated to the republican ticket in november. jonathan lemire and elise jordan are still with us and msnbc contributor mike barnicle joins the conversation.

>> so, mike, after i sent you the picture of mookie and the all-stars i don't know about lemire, but i just turned off the light, pulled the covers over me and went to bed. i didn't watch the all-star game. were you able to watch the all-star game and watch all of our all-stars in other people's uniforms? >> you know, i hung in there five or six innings which started you in the game, the game to that point, joe, i think i told you this, each time i see mookie betts in dodger blue, i'm happy for him. he's a wonderful human being as well as an extraordinary ballplayer. i can't stand it, i just can't stand it the way we lost him, the way we allowed him to walk away from the boston red sox. anyway -- >> at least, jonathan lemire -- i can't even say it with a

straight face -- >> come on, you idiots. >> at least we held on to chris sale. >> no, you didn't. >> we bet there to deliver a long-term contract. my 7-year-old son's favorite player and frankly favorite person is mookie betts, and it breaks his heart to see him in dodger blue, obviously we still root for him. joe, our great fear, mike shares it too we just lost one transcendent player, the red sox obviously couldn't after to keep mookie betts, now, again, rafael devers and bogaerts, wonderful people, both entering the end of their contracts there are real risks the sox could lose them too. man, that would be really hard to explain to the fan base. >> you can't explain to the fan base, that would be devastating, you might as well turn on dandy don singing "turn out the lights

the party's over" if that happens. here's highlights of the game last night. you were led to identify former red sox players in other people's uniforms. roll it. >> that's slotted up the middle. spear with a back hand by gimenez, what a play. turn two. >> you're going to strike out the side of the all-star game? >> what do you want me to do, john? >> slider, down and low. >> here we go. yeah. >> that ball is hammered to left center field. good-bye! two-run shot, tied game. >> lead the twins to the postseason. >> he turns out a ball. and hits it a mile. and in front, home runs. >> i'm going to the big boys now. look at what i got right here in the building.

>> oh, yeah. >> what do you call that one? >> 1-2 pitch to jay. got 'em, strikes out the side in the ninth inning. and the american league wins the all-star game for the ninth consecutive season. >> mike, it was cool how they mic the players up. and what a great place for an all-star game. i mean, what a -- we talk about fenway all the time. but, man, what a classic stadium, dodger stadium. >> it is the third oldest ballpark in the major leagues. not many people know that. there's fenway park, wrigley field and dodger stadium built in the 1960s. the clip that we showed the toronto blue jays great right-hander, strong kid, talking back and forth, being micced, talking with john smoltz, the hall of fame

pitcher, that was worth watching, at least the first two innings especially when he asked on live tv the "s" stands for who the batter is coming into the box. he said he'll go for an outside slider. the guy swung at it and missed. it was great. >> that is amazing. that is just amazing. by the way, there's devers, boston superstar still wearing a boston uniform. good news. >> fun, fun. let's get to the news. >> let's get to the news. we're just a day and a half away from tomorrow's prime timer january 6 hearing in prime time. here's what we know so far, the hearing will focus on a minute-by-minute account of what president trump was doing during the 187 minutes during the attack. congressman adam kinzinger, and congresswoman elaine luria will

lead the questioning. and so far, we know of at least two witnesses who will appear live to testify. former deputy national security matthew pottinger and former deputy white house press secretary sarah matthews. both resigned their posts in the wake of the january 6th attack. with pottinger explaining why in previously aired testimony. >> one of my staff brought me a printout of a tweet by the president. and the tweet said something to the effect that mike pence, the vice president, didn't have the courage to do what should have been done. i read that tweet, and made a decision at that moment to resign. that's where i knew that i was leaving that day. once i read that tweet. >> wow.

we can also expect to see more videotaped testimony from former trump white house counsel pat cipollone and congresswoman luria said on sunday there will be testimony from people we haven't seen yet. one of those people could be garrett zigler, a white house aide for peter navarro who sat for a video deposition yesterday. he is reportedly the junior aide that let sidney powell and others into the white house for that heated december 18th meeting at the white house that almost came to blows which the committee detailed in its last hearing. former top aide to then vice president pence olivia troye joins us now. olivia, thank you for being on the show this morning. i'm wondering what more you can add to what we've heard so far about how vice president pence was dealt with, when his life

was being threatened on january 6th? >> look, every time i hear some of these firsthand accounts and these testimonies that are happening and these witnesses, i get chills and it's still very upsetting to me. i just have a hard time accepting the fact that this is the united states of america where the president of the united states at the time set this attack towards his own vice president and the leadership of our country. there's no other way to really capture that. we've seen the dereliction of duty. i think with the upcoming hearing i wrinkle to the voices of matt pottinger who i worked with closely who was a former national security colleague of mine who understands the grave danger of the moment and the movement that moves on, surrounding the entire sequence of events and the big lie of the stolen election and things like

that. that is made across our country. >> olivia, i know you'll have something to say about this next story, the secret service is now saying text messages that may have been able to corroborate some or all of the events on january 6th are likely gone forever. after being issued a subpoena by the house select committee investigating the attack, the agency had until yesterday to turn over its records from january 5th and 6th of 2021, that it said had been accidentally erased but after initially being hopeful that the data could be recovered, committee member stephanie murphy revealed otherwise. >> we received a letter today that did provide us with a lost of documents and some data. however, we did not receive the additional text messages that we were looking for. they received four requests from congressional committees on january 16th, to preserve

records. and they had this planned migration for the 25th, i believe, of january. and nobody along the way stopped and thought, well, maybe we shouldn't do the migration of data and the devices until we're able to fulfill the full requests from congress. >> mike, we've been talking about how this is so open and shut. this wasn't a mistake. this would be like people at pearl harbor burning old documents from december 5th and 6th 1941. this is a critical day in history. they understood that. they were the people with the guy that was attempting a fascist overthrow of american democracy where the mob, a riot, wanted to go up to the capitol, grab secret service members by the throat. grab the steering wheel, demanding that he went up there. and yet the secret service deletes all of these texts, despite the fact that congress

requested it, the i.g. requested it. you know, you just can't put it down to a bureaucratic snafu. especially since, you know, carol leonnig and others have written about how donald trump politicized the secret service. now, we're seeing the consequences of that. no transparency of this investigation over an attempted fascist overthrow of american democracy. and no realtime communication from those who were with the person who was attempting a fascist overthrow of the american democracy. >> joe, you get the sense this is a much larger story than we're talking this morning. i think this is a story that's going to have legs on it and it's going to grow. for instance, one of the specifics of the story, a secret service is agent tony oranado.

and trump made him chief of staff. while he kept his secret service employment, he was deputy chief of staff in the white house. you don't have to be in -- a genius to figure out that he still had ties to the secret service. so, we have this eraing of emails and edict issued 11 or 12 days later asking that all text messages of that day be preserved. and they weren't, they were erased. and you wonder did anyone give the order to erase them? did any secret service agent in charge of the detail then, whenever that was, did they order the erasure of those

messages? this is a big story and only getting bigger. >> well, jonathan lemire, we heard the president's lawyer pat cipollone telling cassidy hutchinson keep him away from the capitol. the president's own lawyer, if he going up to the capitol, we will be charged with everything under the book. so donald trump wants to go up to the capitol. we have cassidy hutchinson testifying about when they came back shaken, telling the story of how trump lunged for the steering wheel. lunged for one of the secret service member's neck. and then, of course, we have secret service off the record lying about that. saying it never happened when, of course, you have d.c. cops and others saying that it did. then, of course, this would have all been cleared up, this would have all been taken care of if we had the text. not because it's a cool story, but because it shows intent. and it shows how rabid he was to

go up and take an active role, on capitol hill, in the fascist overthrow of american democracy. we don't have those records now. >> yeah. those records which should have been preserved sass a routine matter, of course, they should always be preserved. especially when it comes to such a momentous day as january 6th and the day that preceded it. and as we've been talking about the time line is incriminating. yes, it was preplanned to secret service swap over their phones and therefore, data would not be transferred from one to the other. that's fine. that was in the works but it wasn't set to happen until end of january. and a request from investigators to preserve records came a solid week to ten days before that data transfer. there was plenty of time for that to have stopped. and we're being generous in suggesting that it was completely incompetence. far more likely a cover sunny.

cover-up. >> and that's what people are saying here in washington to key evidence of what would have happened as the vice president was doing that day in his threat of his detail to try to evacuate it. and donald trump fighting with agents in that suv and his other movements back at the white house after returning from the ellipse. we should note, mika, the final thought here, cassidy hutchinson when she testified a few weeks ago, remember, we heard from the secret service about the testimony yet we've heard nothing further. agents have not gone up there and discredited what she said. >> i wonder what these revelations of no text messages will compel people to do. olivia, i've got a couple questions for you. you tweeted yesterday, quote, republicans were furious about hillary clinton's emails and personal server. why aren't they screaming from the rooftops outraged about the

secret service texts exchanged on january 6 being purged? from you, from what you've seen, from your very, very significant point of view, inside the white house, working for mike pence, is this surprising to you that the text messages are missing? >> yeah, completely surprising. we keep the preservation of government records very seriously. and i'll be honest with you, i have run technical migrations for the government. and i can tell me you 100% that we plan very ahead for these things. and that everything is mapped out from point "a," point "b," "c" and "d." i mean, we have it all planned out. there's a time line for everything. and i just find it completely just appalling that no one in the leadership thought the same thing. maybe we should have seen it as migration, and maybe we need to preserve these things. even just for historical context

on this movement. on such a very dark day in our country's history, why would you not think to do that? and so, i think the entire scenario -- yes, it could be gross incompetence. but, look, i've worked with the technical people in government and the engineers. they're pretty capable. they really know what they're doing when it comes to this, especially if you're migrating for something like the secret service which is part of a law enforcement endeavor, right? it's part of the department of homeland security. so, you know, when i think about this, my question really is, i want to known the tony ornato text. that's really for the direction ever this. if so, why won't these people come forward and testify? why won't they talk about what was in these messages? >> i'm curious, since you have experience with these migrations, do you have experience, have you seen when something significant happens that a migration is stopped or

held back? and information is preserved. i mean, would it make sense that on january 5th and 6th, somebody along the chain of command would say we need to preserve all the information surrounding these days? is that a fair assumption that that should have been done? >> yes, absolutely. look, i have been in situations where we've been migrating technical capabilities with war fighters overseas where people if leadership stepped in and said, hey, by the way, theres a serious operation happening you cannot do this we have to preserve the data, we have to put a stop on it. there are delays all the time that happen with the technical migrations. it's a very thoughtful process is what i'll reiterate again. so, i just find it completely suspect that this would be the case. and specifically that time period is what is missing now. i'm sorry. i'm just not buying it. you know, i'm operating on facts. that's my background on national

security. but something is definitely amiss here. >> olivia troyer, thank you. come back soon. in steve bannon's contempt file, a federal prosecutor told jurors that bannon, quote, decided he was above the law when he ignored two subpoenas from the january 6th committee. the prosecutor said cooperation with the committee, quote, wasn't a request. and it wasn't an invitation. it was mandatory. bannon's legal team argued that the dates on the subpoena were not fixed and open to negotiation. the government's first witness, a staffer for the january 6 committee told jurors that the panel was investigating accounts that bannon played multiple roles related to the january 6th attack and suggested he may have had advance knowledge of the events that day. that staffer is expected back on the stand when the trial resumes

later this morning. >> yeah. >> joe, you just look at all of this coming together. all of the different ways that people are trying to avoid any type of responsibility or opportunity. >> cover-up. >> yeah. >> yeah, i mean, covering it, i mean, the secret service, they deleted the emails, it's a cover-up. again, again, there's no reason for us to play by marcus of queensbury rules here. >> olivia said, these migrations are thoughtful. she focused on that word. they're constantly being considered whether or not they should go through. there's so many different levers to stop a migration which is what they say deleted the texts. >> yeah. >> that that didn't happen is astounding. >> well, especially when you get letters from congress telling you to preserve all documents. >> that's right. >> to preserve all texts, to preserve all emails.

you get the same thing from your own inspector general. it's crazy. so, jonathan lemire, we think it's a fait accompli, what's going to happen with steve bannon. we'll get to that in a second. first of all, you saw the shirts that bannon wore yesterday. i just want to quote from you, well, first of all, chris hayes has a picture of bannon up and says he's got 99 problems but multiple shirts and pens are not any of them to which michael weis subtweets a fugitive serbian war criminal, next to agent "m" better than steve bannon, the absolute undefeated champion. i'm not going to lie. i love people who break fashion barriers. and i just -- steve bannon has done this. and what i love the most is, i

don't know why he wears so many shirts, but he does. now, listen, we can talk about it. he's going to be found guilty because he broke the law. >> but why do you like that? >> but i'm more fascinated now since we're past a week of this case because he broke the law, he's going to be found guilty, he doesn't have any defense. the multiple shirts. look at this. i love this. i'm not sure what steve's doing. but this is -- this is -- i mean, the hair. the fashion -- come on, man. come on. >> what is truly remarkable - that's what we all aspire to look like. >> i mean, he's adonis. what's remarkable here, i appreciate his commitment to the look. >> yeah. >> this isn't something that he sports now and then. he's known to always wearing multiple shirts, three, four, five, six. >> yeah. >> only question is how many.

there's always one more. he seems to add to the shirt election on special occasions. and joe, we were remarking last night while looking at these photos there are two rules of life here. you don't want to get away and you don't want to get in a shirt-off with steve bannon because he's always got one more than you think. >> well, if you got a fashion statement, i agree. you got to buy into it, buddy. and he bought into it. another trump-backed candidate wins a republican primary as last night elections, don cox shocked off kelly schultz a former secretary of commerce backed by the state party's establishment in maryland's gubernatorial primary. part of a string of victories by maga candidates. >> he's going to lose. >> and it's being funded in some cases by the last people you'd expect. >> yeah, he's going to lose. >> we'll explain that. later, new reporting on an

extreme trend in the wake of the supreme court's decision, more and more women are choosing to be sterilized. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. g "morning " g "morning " we'll be right back. ♪♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa ♪♪ subway's drafting 12 new subs it looks so good it makes me hangry! settle down there, big guy the new subway series. what's your pick?

the national urban league kicks off its 2022 conference this evening in washington, d.c. this year's gathering starts with a rally for civil rights at the memorial for dr. martin luther king jr. joining us now with what else we can expect at the four-day conference the president and ceo of the national urban league, mark morrell. mark, it's great to have you back on the show. >> good morning. >> i'm looking at the rundown for the next few days and it's focused on the aftershocks of the past few years. so, give us a sense of where the national urban league stands on where it wants to put its energy, given all of the

developments of even the last few months. >> mika, all roads lead to the protection of american democracy. the preservation of the right to vote. the protection of individual rights and liberties which are under assault. and you all have had a conversation this morning about january 6th. >> yeah. >> and the attack on democracy and the use of violence. our conferrees are steadfast in their energy and their desire to do everything possible to protect democracy. there are great concerns, and just outrage at the actions of the supreme court, now over a period of years from the shelby decision which stripped away the protections of the voting rights act, to the dobbs decision which has now eroded and eliminated a woman's right to choose, to the attack on gun safety laws being passed by states. so all roads lead to democracy.

if we do not have the right to vote. the right to elect representatives, the right to sit at the table, then we cannot participate and advocate for economic inclusion or educational advancement. or the many other things that are important to us to improve the quality of life for black americans and disadvantaged americans here in the 21st century. so, we are putting so much of our energy behind this protection of democracy, we'll have assertive, aggressive get out to vote campaign in the fall. but we're also educating people. those who participated in january 6th have to be held accountable. and it will be a test of our system whether there's a clear demonstration that no man no woman, no person is above the law. this use of violence to overthrow the government combined with voter suppression,

combined now with the chance for state legislatures the chance to overturn elections are a direct assault on the bake principle of this nation and that is the right to vote and the right to participate in the election of our representatives. so that is central, in addition to a range of other important issues. but it's foundational, it's central and it's front and center as we meet here in washington, d.c. >> i'm curious also, how you will, you know, really energize the urban league and all of the supporters and followers when you named so many different things right now that are going on, january 6th, the argument that some won't even speak of it, the abortion, with roe being overturned. of guns. it sometimes feels and perhaps you could speak to this like we're going backwards. >> there's a deliberate effort

to turn the clock back. to, i think, if you look at the supreme court to repeal the last 50 years of the 20th century. americans must recognize that we are in a fight in a battle for the preservation of the american future. and i think for our conferrees, we're going to ask them to stand on the shoulders of history. the national urban league and the civil rights movement was born of crisis. lynching in early 20th century, the great migration. the 1950s and '60s, the battle against segregation. born of crisis where generations before responded to that crisis with action. this generation, our generation, cannot fall prey to cynicism. to sort of defeatism, or to some sense that these events are preordained and that there's nothing they can do.

so, we're going to be working hard to energize conferrees who are going to be, we have teenagers who are participating in the youth summit, we have young activists and young elected officials. we have men and women who are from the baby boom all the way to the gen-z generation who going to be part of this, we're going to deputize them and challenge them to go back to local communities and bring back the energy needed, the strategy needed and the action needed, in the fall to not only turn out to vote, but to continue to work and fight for the preservation of democracy, the reform of the justice system, working against gun violence. working to protect our civil rights including the woman's right to choose and our individual liberties. this is a fight. it is a battle. it is one we must wage. and we think it's a generational fight. and black americans at the center of it.

but, mika, this is a fight for americans of every race, creed, color, religion. and ethnicity to really, really move this situation towards becoming what it should and needs to become in the 21st century. and that is a multicultural, multiracial, multireligious, multigender identity democracy, where we are all part of a true vision of the american dream. and that's what we're going to be working for and that's going to be central to some great conversations that are going to take place in washington, d.c. people can't make it can tune in virtually. we're going to have 5,000 people, we think, participating. >> wow. >> and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands online also participating in various elements of the conference. we've got a career fair. tech connection. we've got resources for people. so, we are action oriented. we only walk, we talk. we are about doing the hard work and lifting up communities so

we're excited, first time we're together in three years. in person, so it will be great to see people from all over the nation after this three-year challenge, this crisis, this hiatus that we've been through over the last three years. >> the national urban league's 2022 conference kicks off this evening in washington, d.c. in person. the group's president and ceo marc morial, great to see you. >> yeah, thanks. >> congratulations on this. thank you for the hard work for america. and coming up, we're following a shooting that happened of all places on the set of a tv drama "law & order: organized crime" as a crew member is gunned down while sitting in a car. those details are ahead on "morning joe." e details are ahen e details are ahen "morning joe." along with significantly clearer skin, skyrizi helps me move

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election yesterday in the grace for governor it's too early to call on the democratic side between former dnc chair tom perez and combat veteran wes moore. on the republican side, dan cox, a far-right state legislator endorsed by former president trump is the projected winner defeating kelly schulz, backed by the state party establishment. dan cox is the latest in a number of maga candidates that democrats will face in november. in many cases it's been the democrats who have worked to elevate those candidates in the republican primaries. editor-in-chief of crooked media brian beutler writes about this risky strategy in a notpiece for "the new york times." he joins us now. ryan, i want to talk about this

tactic, you hone in on candidates in arizona and pennsylvania being amplified by the democrats. quote, if in some appalling hiccup the current democratic plan fails and ms. lake and mr. mastriano are elected democrats might be able to say they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to empower two republicans who went on to overturn the will of the people in the 2024 presidential election. given that the democrats already have a strong message heading into the midterms, there's no need for the party to pull tricks in republican primaries, and there's certainly no need to pivot away from lurid themes like the attempted coup of last winter to milqutoast and counterproudive appeals about kitchen table issues. all the democrats have to do is tell the truth. whether they play a hand in

selecting their opponents or not, democrats are blessed of a time of great national disquiet, to be running against a party that is reorganized itself around lying, cheating and corruption. brian, i do know about the risk. and i don't think it's honest either. we do want to make a differentiation, between democrats and republicans, and i'm sorry, good and evil at this point. >> well, i don't think there's any way, really, practically, for democrats to remain neutral in any race, even in races in arizona and pennsylvania where the outcomes could be so momentous, they're going to have to comment on the things that doug mastriano and kerry lake say, and that was true before the mastriano primary and when they key in on what lake has to say, a lot of republican voters are unfortunately going to hear that and think that's a good reason to vote for her.

so, there's no way to accept neutrality here. but what i do think there's a way, what democrats can do, tell a consistent story, starting in the primary and going through the general election about what it is about candidates like lake and mastriano that is extra dangerous, especially dangerous. and that story doesn't have to change. it doesn't have to be a core game where you whisper to conservative voters during the primary that this is a really good person and pivot in the general election about infrastructure or any other kitchen table issue. >> brian, specific to these candidates that pose a radical threat to american democracy, you have doug mastriano said he would, you know, overthrow the election results as soon as he's in office. and also, particularly in his case, he says that he would ban roe v. wade immediately if he becomes governor. how do you think democrats did boost his candidacy in the primary? do you think that he was helped

by certain elements of the democratic party that thought that he would be a weaker candidate? >> i don't think it's credible to say that joshua shapiro, the democratic nominee or the democratic party or national party got doug mastriano elected. he was always leading in by a large margin in a crowded field. and nothing that joshua shapiro did tipped the balance whereas in other races, past races, you can definitely say that democratic interventions essentially helped them pick their opponents directly. so, you know, i would say it's fair to say that josh shapiro got the candidate to run against that he wanted to run against. now he leads according to polling by 3% to 4% which is okay. but you could see that election could go sideways for democrats very easily. and suddenly, a person who can single-handedly maybe overturn the 2024 election has become the governor of pennsylvania.

>> so, brian, my question to you is the usage of the word "milqutoast" was in your piece as mika just read one of the excerpts from the "times" piece. why are so many democratic candidate milqutoastish against competing with these people if you look with the exception of ohio, when you look at the candidates running against the right wing republican nut cases for high public office, either govern or secretary of state in various states, why aren't they called out with language, action verbs, that people understand, rather than the mealymouthed approach that so many democratic candidates take? >> first, i want to say that i think josh shapiro as a candidate has pretty good and harsh rhetoric for his republican opponents and in pennsylvania in general. he'll point out if he wins, he'll veto ail bill to strip pennsylvanians of their abortion

rights and doug mastriano will sign. he's pointed out that doug mastriano is an insurrectionist, and he can't be governor of pennsylvania in a real democracy but i think the contrast democrats nationally that they're trying to set up is to draw out the least electable most unappealing republicans who say crazy thing and create a contrast with the democratic candidates who are normal who will talk about gas prices and inflation. and at that point, you're sort of changing the topic how unfit the candidates are. there's an onion side by side, which is going to peel left, jimmy carter saying let's talk gas prices and on the right is ronald reagan saying kill the bastards. the message there is brutal visceral appeals are effectively politically than trying to be normal and fade away in the

background. >> it is a challenge. brian beutler, thank you for being on the show. before we go to break, this story, a man was fatally shot in an ambush on the set of "law & order: organized crime." while working parking enforcement for the show early tuesday in brooklyn. 31-year-old johnny pizarro was sitting in a car in the green point neighborhood when he was attacked around 5:15 a.m., according to the new york city a.m. a suspect opened the car door and fired striking pizarro in the face and neck. according to the police he was pronounced dead at the hospital. a short time later, pizarro, a father of six, was hired to clear parking to make space for trucks. no arrests have been made. and the motive is unknown at this time. we'll keep an eye on that. and still ahead, an early win for twitter in its court battle against the world's richest man. plus, more and more men and

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51 past the hour, more than a dozen lawmakers were arrested outside the supreme court yesterday during an abortion rights protest, wearing specially made green bandannas with the words "won't back down". the democratic members of congress marched from the capitol to the area that's been fenced off since the supreme court's decision of overturning roe v. wade. capitol police ordered them to cease and desist. instead, the lawmakers sat on the street and were led away by officers. capitol police say 35 people were arrested, including 17 members of congress.

among those arrested, representatives alexandria ocasio-cortez and ilan omar. >> morgan, you're looking into some of the ramifications of the overturning of roe. the steps some women are taking to prevent pregnancy amid all the uncertainty about what comes next. >> you captured it, it is a degree of uncertainty that a lot of women are now trying to mitigate in the wake of this decision. we've seen demand surge for the morning after pill and we've seen more women asking about iuds and now there's evidence that women all across the country are seeking out a more permanent option, that's sterilization. we spoke to two women who say the timing is without a doubt tied directly to their state abortion laws and the decision by the supreme court. here at womens health domain, a clinic in austin, texas,

dr. tyler hancock says his team has been fielding more calls than ever. >> they're asking for permanent sterlization. they want something permanent because they feel tomorrow there will be no other option. >> how many were calling for it before the supreme court decision? >> one or two a week, the weekend following there were 200 messages by sunday night. >> reporter: in fact, he says he's received so many requests asking for permanent sterilization they're holding weekly sessions. >> how many at a time? >> over 100 at a time per session. >> this 27-year-old is pregnant with her fourth child and says she's planning to make soon, influenced by the supreme court ruling. >> i'll be 27 in october and i'm just done. >> you're done?

>> i'm done. >> so are you for sure it's something you want to do or something you want to learn more about? >> it's something i'm sure i want to do. >> reporter: she's not alone. google searches for procedures surged by as much as 200% after the supreme court decision. and membership in some facebook support groups for women seeking procedures has nearly doubled with one group growing by 2,500 members since the ruling came down. >> so, megan, you already had your tubes removed? >> yes. >> and, ashley, you're about to begin a procedure? >> i'm in the process with consultations. >> what was behind the timing of when you decided to have this procedure? >> after the draft decision was leaked i decided to schedule the procedure sooner than i had originally anticipated. >> what was it about that leak that made you say, i'm going to do something for myself now? >> well, i've always known i didn't want children and i didn't want to be in a position where i didn't want children and

would lack access to contraception as well. >> so like megan, i have always known that i didn't want kids and when we started seeing more of the restrictions coming through, that's when i scheduled my first consultation appointment. >> reporter: they say others like them are often dismissed by doctors who are reluctant to perform the procedure. >> you're told that you are too young to make this decision or what if your significant other wants children one day. >> what if you change your mind. >> what if you regret this some day. >> let's be honest, there's a lot of judgment around the decision to have this procedure. what do you say to people who don't understand? >> permanent contraception is just as permanent as choosing to have a child. so a lot of the arguments against it, like what if you regret it, you could say the same thing about having a kid. >> reporter: it's a choice they expect to see even more women making in the days ahead. >> nobody wants to be put in a situation where they have to

make a choice between, you know, the medical health of whoever is having that kid and the kid itself. so a lot of people are just saying, okay, we're not going to. we're going to go for sterilazation instead. >> vasectomy requests have reached an all-time high and the post popular searches were in states like ohio, missouri, indiana, all places with current or likely bans on abortion. >> wow. nbc's morgan radford, thank you very much for that report. still ahead, the secret service says it cannot find texts from its agents around the january 6th attack on the capitol. now another government agency will begin investigating. a writer who wrote a book about

the fall of the secret service will be our guest this morning. plus, why democrats might be begging president trump to announce his 2024 candidacy early. and in just over two hours, the house judiciary committee will consider a bill to ban assault weapons. one of the authors of that bill, congressman cicilline, will join us. we're back in two minutes. us we hit the bike trails every we we're back in two minutes.care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but, no matter how healthy you feel, your immune system declines as you age increasing your risk for getting shingles.

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no text messages, they're gone. that's the big headline this morning connected to the january 6th investigation. >> wow. >> the secret service says it could not recover messages leading up to and from the day of the insurrection. we'll talk to an expert on the agency in just a moment. plus, a group of fake electors from georgia will soon find

themselves in front of a grand jury. it is the latest big development in a criminal investigation into the 2020 election. >> who would have ever seen, like agreeing to be a fake elector? who would have ever seen that would get you in trouble? well, i guess just about everybody. so these fake electors are in trouble. and, by the way, unlike the doj, georgia is actually aggressively pursuing -- fulton county is aggressively pursuing an investigation into the attempted fascist overthrow of american democracy. i'm glad somebody is. >> meanwhile, donald trump has another state he lost on his mind. last week he called a wisconsin lawmaker trying to get ballots cast more than two years ago, decertified. my god. >> needs a hobby. what were some of the hobbies we talked about?

>> we talk about pickleball. i've got a great pickleball teacher. >> okay, great. >> what else? >> bingo. >> shuffle boarding. bingo, very good. they love that in the west palm beach area. bingo is very big in west palm beach. he can go right across the bridge in his subaru and go to the bingo parlor. what was that game -- >> alex sent it to you. >> what is it called? >> majong. it's a tile game. there's a solitaire version of aarp, also. >> this is so helpful. >> a lot of different things. but, mike, despite all of the things that a florida retiree can do, donald trump continues

hectoring elected people who won their elections in 2020, trying to get them to overthrow american democracy, overthrow a presidential election. it's quite stunning, even by trump-ian standards. >> yeah, that's just the beginning. i mean, he's energized. he's ready to go. we reported earlier today that within a few days past, he called the wisconsin speaker of the house trying to get wisconsin legislature to overturn the results of the election. i mean, just a few days ago. so clearly he's got his mind on big things. he's the energizer bunny. >> it's helpful, just more evidence, i guess. >> i don't know about the energizer bunny. maybe the hogan's heroes. jonathan, he's rushing, he's trying to stay active, he's

trying to stay in the mix. i mean, there's a poll that was just out, state of michigan, republicans, he and desantis are tied there. i know national polls show he has a pretty big lead. you look at states like new hampshire, states like michigan, you've got ron desantis who is running neck-in-neck or ahead of donald trump in many states. when you're a florida governor and you've got over $100 million in the bank, you're not walking away from that opportunity. we hear it time and time again, and it's true, when your time comes to run for president you've got to walk through the door. and there have been people along the way who miss that opportunity and they never got it back. >> yeah, chris christie, one of the prime examples of that. he should have run in 2012, and didn't, it was too late for him in 2016. there are very few republicans that want to see donald trump announce a presidential run any

time soon. they fear that if he jumps in before the midterms it will be an unwelcome distraction for a party that seems poised to do fairly well, at least in the house. but there are two reasons why he's accelerating the timetable. one is to try to combat momentum felt by governor desantis and other republicans willing to stand up to him, at least a little. and secondly about the january 6th hearings and the investigations both in d.c., georgia, other places. they feel like if he's a declared candidate, maybe those prosecutors will take their foot off the gas. so many republicans are fearful that he's just going to want to keep talking about the past. it is july 20th, 2022, and he's talking about an election that was more than 18 months ago, still trying to relitigate that, thinking he can get back in office. that's not a message most republicans want to hear. >> no, they want to talk about the future, not the past. and donald trump is just talking about the past. he's also, though -- you look at

a lot of bad news that's come his way over the past six months. of course, you've got the hearings that twitter was mocking, everybody was mocking, and now we see, of course, massive interest in it by americans. we've seen polling on the congressional ballot test and it shows that especially among seniors a huge drop in support for republicans. you look at the investigations that are going on across the country and you look at the numbers inside the republican party, it's bad news. you look at if the midterm elections were held today, which party's candidate would you vote for, and everybody is focusing on the biden numbers, and they're saying, man, they're bad. but look at this, in the democratic party in may republicans led democrats by 12

points, 49% to 37%. it was their largest margin of victory. now in july it's completely reversed. you have actually democrats -- i'm sorry, i think i messed that up, didn't i? yeah, you have democrats who were behind 62% to 37%. now democrats leading republicans as far as voters over 65, 49% to 47%. just a huge, massive shift. and of course the midterm elections, this carries out because voters who are over 65 have a much, much higher propensity to vote in midterm elections. >> joe, jonathan pointed out that there are plenty of republican strategists who don't want donald trump to announce before the midterms, as common sense would dictate. but we all know that donald trump is only going to do what

he thinks is best for donald trump, and that's a good thing for democrats. you look at how donald trump has intervened in countless contests and has supported the wrong guy or has gotten a candidate in that's going to have a tougher general election fight against someone that the mainstream republican leadership would have preferred. this is going to be just like that. donald trump is going to make his decision based on what suits him and suits him and himself alone. >> that is for sure. let's get to our top story as we roll into the third hour of "morning joe." the secret service now says text messages that may have been able to corroborate some of the events of january 6th are likely gone forever. the request for those records initially came from the department of homeland security's inspector general. before the january 6th committee issued a subpoena for them last week. now, new reporting from "the

guardian" reveals the secret service turned over just one text message and exchange to the january 6th panel. he also reports on the timeline. house investigators also learned that the texts were seemingly lost as part of an agency-wide reset of phones on january 27th, 2021, the sources said, 11 days after congress first requested the communications and two days after agents were reminded to back up their phones. joining us now, pulitzer prize reporter, who wrote a book specifically on the secret service. what questions do you have given the latest information that they only could provide one text exchange and the others are gone? >> yes, mika, it's really,

really a mess. secret service sources told me late -- let's say early yesterday morning and late the night before that there would be basically no new information coming to congress. they knew after scouring their records all weekend long, allegedly scouring, that they didn't have anything new or exciting to turn over because they said all of these texts that began vanishing when they reset phones in january were basically gone by the time an inspector general made his request for records in february. but as you rightfully point out, congress had other requests already pending in january, and the messiest part for the secret service about this, mika, also you're well aware of, maybe the viewers are not, is that every agency has a requirement to back

up government records, one way or another. and in this instance the secret service was merely incompetent or sloppy as heck and individual agents were given a choice, do you want to back up these cell phone texts, do you think they're government business, you make the decision and we'll abide by that. >> oh, come on. that's just ridiculous. >> how is this possible? especially if you look at the secret service in terms of forensic recovery, they're very good at this, as you know. >> that's a good point. sorry, such a good point. when you said forensic recovery i immediately started thinking about all the ways the secret service catches bad guys by recovering their cell phone data. >> okay, so how is it possible that all of these phones were deleted as part of this migration? we heard earlier from olivia

troy, who has been part of these aspects of restoring information, who says there is a lot of thought that is put into device resets, we have the national archives now asking questions about this. how is it possible they are gone? how is it possible that this is a mistake, an honest mistake? >> i don't like to speculate unless i can put it in the paper, you know, the place that i work, the "washington post," or in the update to my book, which now it looks like i might have to do. i don't like to speculate. but i'll say that based on all of the interviews i've done thus far, mika, it seems to me the secret service was incredibly lazy about making sure these were kept and there may have been people that i won't name at this moment, i will wait until i

publish a story, but there may have been people in the secret service who were blissfully happy this was happening because a lot of things would disappear if they didn't store them. i'll also remind viewers that i've written about text messages on secret service agents' phones that i ultimately received and was able to write about. these were not government records. in fact, most of them were salacious efforts by different agents to hit on women that were their subordinates or try to make dates with their colleagues or their bosses, and so there's a lot of non-government stuff on these texts. and i can see why agents wouldn't say, oh, i would like to upload all of this to our agency file. a lot of it that i've read was pretty damning and humiliating, and i've published some of it in my book. >> carol, i'll go, we have a

slight delay, and then i'll let you finish up. so obviously you can't draw the conclusions that we can draw while you're following the story until, like you said, you can write it and publish it and get it past editors at the "washington post." but that said, for most americans that are looking at this, you have a secret service that knew they were at the heart of what happened on january the 6th. they understand, like we all understood at the time, that this was an unprecedented event where the president of the united states attempted what i call a fascist overthrow of an american election, and that he wanted to go up to capitol hill, he wanted to join the rioters, he wanted to lead them in to the

capitol, and he wanted to stop the vote of the electors. and his own lawyer said, stop that from happening, because if it happens we're going to be charged with every crime under the book. and so cassidy hutchinson talks about the conversation that was had after they came back that he was grabbing at the wheel to get to the capitol, he was lunging at secret service members, and we could have known all the details behind that, we could have known all the details about the movement of mike pence, how they were trying to get mike pence out of there. and under normal circumstances it could be put away to laziness, sloppiness, bureaucratic bungling, but this was january 6th. this was a one-off event, and you have the secret service that has been politicized based on great work by reporters like you, politicized by donald

trump. so how do americans not draw the conclusion that this was a cover-up? >> joe, those are exactly the right questions. and i'll tell you this, there's an arrogance that runs through the secret service and an effort, always, to cover up, always to cover up anything that would be embarrassing, humiliating, or just as importantly, to cover up anything that's bad about the president. because, remember, sometimes the secret service becomes kind of -- not just a protector of the president's body, but a protector of the president's secrets. and as you know, and as i've reported, the secret service was tragically to a degree never seen before politicized by donald trump. people around him, his secret service detail, and of course, as you've noted, tony ornato, who became temporarily a white house political adviser to trump

and an enabler of everything trump wanted to accomplish, who got the secret service in line to deliver what trump needed, even if it violated rules, protocols and possibly laws, the effort by the secret service is always -- these are our secrets, you don't have any claim to them. but, actually, the law says we do have a claim to them, and i can imagine a lot of secret service executives, even the director, wanting to put this chapter behind them. not saying delete the records, but, oh, isn't it convenient this stuff is going to go away. and they were then going to be the new employees of joe biden, who was already distrustful of the secret service. but it's the arrogance and the desire to keep their own secrets by the secret service that have us in this mess. and you mentioned four things we could figure out or potentially corroborate, all of them pretty important. did the president attack a secret service agent and lunge

for a wheel inside his suburban on january 6th because he was so angry he couldn't join his supporters, did he say he wanted his supporters to be armed with firearms when they came to the ellipse on january 6th, and to march with him, with heat packing? what else could we have learned in these texts that even goes beyond the amazing points that you raised? >> "washington post" -- oh, go ahead. >> mike, sorry, go ahead. >> carol, as you know, more than most, the white house protective detail, they're human beings and they come to like some presidents and dislike other presidents. i'm thinking in terms of the like category george h.w. bush, who was beloved by his secret service detail, to your point of working for a human being we

really like. my question to you is on this one, as the politicized protective detail around donald trump and what happened has happened and we've been talking about it all morning, you're an expert on it. what's your instinct on this? is it the secret service detail trying to protect itself, trying to protect trump or both? >> the deletion of the records, mike, i'm going to put aside for a moment to answer your question, because we don't know whether or not this was just a stupid screw-up or something a little more intentional. we don't know yet. and i, again, won't speculate. but it is clear to me that senior leadership and several -- and i'm not talking like half, i'm talking about the majority of president trump's detail were in the tank for him. they preferred his conservative positions, they usually are viewed, the secret service, as

putting politics at the door when they walk into the white house to protect the man, the office, and democracy. but in this case i have seen numerous texts, social media postings by members of the president's protective detail in which they were essentially cheering on the insurrectionists on january 6th, they were posting pictures on their social media platforms of an upside down flag when biden was allegedly, in their view, elected president. these were people with maga hats in their offices. so it was clear that they were very much on trump's side and not opposed to the challenge of the rightful fair and free election. and that is chilling and worrisome and raises new questions afresh about this episode involving the deletion of records. >> all right, the "washington

post" carol leennig, thank you so much. i want to follow up with what carol said before, so many of the secret service detail were trump supporters. i've heard the same thing from capitol police, there were a lot of people not only during the insurrection, but after the insurrection, there were capitol police officers who actually were cheering on the insurrectionists and we have the same thing, obviously, inside the secret service. and that being the case, it makes it all the more distressing that you have the head of the dhs saying, oh, this was just a bureaucratic snafu. it wasn't a bureaucratic snafu. we all know what happened here. >> to your point about the capitol police, first of all, so many of them performed so bravely on january 6th, but the actions of some were questioned

and came under real scrutiny. the same for the secret service. i've covered the white house for years now and my own experiences and also talking to people throughout washington, there's a political lean to many secret service agents, many of them conservative in their politics, many of them very, very fond of trump. and we know tony ornato was moved from secret service to a high profile west wing job, a reflection of how close he had grown to the now former president. these are people, people in the secret service detail surrounding the white house today, some of them still very fond of donald trump, and that's why the deletion of these text messages is so outrageous and raises so many questions, as we've been saying all morning. preserving records is a normal matter of course for a typical day, but particularly for these january 5th and january 6th, of the most vital importance. even if routine maintenance was

scheduled, it was ten days later, there was plenty of time to stop that. those records should have been preserved. >> mike barnicle, let's ask a difficult question right now. how does joe biden deal with the secret service? how does the biden administration deal with the secret service that was so politicized by donald trump? he's got to trust his family's life with these guys and women. how does he do that if they're so in the tank for donald trump? and, by the way, the reason we're having this conversation is because they deleted texts that would have revealed exactly what donald trump did when he was attempting a fascist overthrow of the united states government. >> you know, joe, that's an interesting question. i do know that when president biden was vice president his secret service detail, i think they truly enjoyed protecting them and being with him. i'm also led to believe that at the inception of the biden

presidency, the first six or seven months, that there were questions they had about the protective detail surrounding him. not that they wouldn't do their jobs and an example of potential danger, but that they were politicized by the former guy and that they were somewhat distrusting of a progressive method of government that joe biden embodied. but i don't know what the deal is today on that. i think the detail has changed a bit. it's turned over a bit as to the ideology of the detail, i have no idea. but i do know that there were concerns early on in the protective detail that he was handed when he became president. >> let's bring in senior political correspondent for "the washington examiner" and white house editor for politico, both are reporting on the possibility and potential timing of trump announcing another run for the presidency. david, i'll start with you.

you've got a piece in the "washington examiner" exploring the potential fallout if trump announces before the midterms. timing is everything. you write, in part, trump would begin any presidential primary with overwhelming advantages in popularity, name identification, and resources. but pulling the trigger on a third white house campaign prior to election day this november, as trump concedes is possible, might boomerang. rather than box out potential 2024 opponents and clear the field, such a move by the former president could reek of fear, inviting more competition for the republican nomination. i don't know, david, because i think some of the ways donald trump fights back is to behave in a manner that is so shocking that everyone is stunned into silence. and for him to announce right now that he's running in the

midst of these hearings and everything else would be, i think, very true to form. >> well, it would be true to form. he doesn't follow tradition and does things his own way and he's always looking to control the news cycle, control what you and i are talking about, control what people are thinking and distract from events he doesn't find particularly helpful. i think what is interesting here is not so much how voters might react to this. as i write there, he has enviable name i.d., popularity and resources. when you're looking to run for president, those three things are super critical. but that, of course, raises the question, if he is in such a good position, which i believe he is, why would he bother announcing this early? why does he need to box other people out by going before this year's midterm elections, risking the ability for republicans to not just win control of congress, but to win big governing majorities, which is very possible. i think other republicans

looking at running in 2024 are looking at that and saying, if he thinks he needs to do this, then he must not be in as good a position as i believe he is, as others believe he is, and it's not going to dissuade me from giving it a shot. now, do other republicans ultimately beat him in a primary, he's the overwhelming favorite, we don't know that. but i would like to differentiate between what voters are thinking about trump and what trump's potential competitors are thinking about him. because if they run against him, you never know what can happen. obviously if he clears the field, it's a fait accompli and there's nothing to talk about. >> i think he could. just from knowing him, it seems to me that there are republicans that are still afraid to speak out against donald trump. there are republicans who are afraid to speak out about january 6th. if he lets a lot of time go by with these prime-time hearings and anything else that might come out, they might become less afraid later. and so i could see trump jumping

the gun on everything to get out there, to turn the noise machine up, to show that contrast, that split screen, the hearings and him on the campaign trail. that's vintage trump. sam stein, you're looking at this as well. join the conversation. i think you have polls of the potential of trump jumping in. >> yeah, we did a morning consult poll that looked at the sort of state of play of the 2024 primary. it's painfully far off, but we're still talking about it. and david is right, trump is the overwhelming favorite. the numbers show if they were to run today, trump at 53% among republican voters, desantis at 23%. mike pence at 7%. this shows you, even in this weakened state, and these hearings have weakened him, but even in this weakened state, he is the favorite and the biggest

force in the republican party. the only thing i would add on this idea that he would announce a run before the midterms, there's two things to consider. one is he might do it because he senses he's vulnerable, not just politically but legally, and getting into the race allows him to push these investigations away and skirt them through that means. the second thing is basically every republican that my colleague talked to and every democrat, too, all the republicans think it's a horrible idea. they're petrified of the idea of him announcing before the midterms. they knee absolutely no upside to it. every democrat is praying to the heavens that he does it because it would absolutely upend the midterm narrative and make it all about trump and it would take all the things we're talking about around these january 6th hearings and put them front and center of midterm voters. and that could not be a bigger gift for democrats. >> note to democrats, don't pray for that, with donald trump you never underestimate and, joe, i

can already see it. he jumps in while these hearings are still playing out, the hearings, the very hearings that are damaging him, he will take advantage of that. he will bring that whole witch hunt, this is political, they're out to get me, and he will, you know, get that base riled up, the same way he has before. >> yeah, you had elvis before he went into the army and you had elvis after he came out of the army. elvis before the army, and you've got an elvis in '77, fat elvis, sweaty elvis in '77. the dreams is over for donald trump. i mean, part of the problem is, part of the problem for trump is, he hasn't updated his music catalog, he hasn't updated his set list. he's only talking about 2020. so there are republicans who are already saying, democrats want

trump to run so they can talk about the past instead of the future. well, it's donald trump that orders republicans to talk about the past. i mean, i would guess this would be mitch mcconnell's worst nightmare. >> there is no republican focused on 2022 and that includes many advisers in his circle that agrees it is a good idea for him to announce a campaign before the midterm elections. and they are all, as i reported in my piece, trying to come up with ways to convince him to delay. it's classic, it's like, look at the toy over here, johnny, stop crying, let me distract you. by the way, trump knows exactly what they're doing, he likes the attention. but there's no republican who thinks this is a good idea and your point about trump's stale act is important in this regard.

very popular with the republican base, would be the overwhelming favorite. but there's an interesting thing here about a third white house campaign. he's no longer the fresh face of change, the new voice that he once was, and his insistence on focusing on 2020 rather than even just looking ahead to 2024 entirely is a vulnerability, i like to call it a soft spot between the armor plates that a republican or two may be able to exploit if they bother to try. and so i do not think as strong a figure in the republican party as trump is -- and, again, no doubt how strong he is, he's not quite the same figure he was in 2016 or 2020. >> the "washington examiner's" david drucker and politico's sam stein. nearly a dozen fake electors who falsely certified donald trump as the victor of the 2020 election in georgia, and now targets of a criminal probe.

it doesn't stop there. the former president is still trying to overturn the 2020 results. a republican official in wisconsin says trump called him just last week. and before we go to break, a special moment after last night's major league baseball all-star game. dodgers pitcher clayton kershaw was just about to make his media appearance when he was alerted to a 10-year-old inside the interview room. >> oh, what's up, dude? [ inaudible ] >> oh, wow.

oh, come here, dude. great to meet you. thanks for coming up. that took a lot of courage, man. that was awesome. thanks for coming. do you have a parent here or anything? [ laughter ] >> that is so cute. >> you can't hear much of it, but you kind of get what's going on there. >> it's a good thing the kid and kershaw weren't playing for the red sox because they would have traded them both for a couple of hamburgers. >> mike, explain what was going on there. it was hard to hear. >> it was a young boy, 10 years of age. his grandfather's hero was clayton kershaw and his grandfather had always thought it would be the greatest moment of his, the grandfather's life, if he ever got to meet clayton

kershaw. so his 10-year-old grandson was standing in for him as he was announcing why he was there, and you see clayton kershaw when the boy begins to cry and get up and do what you hope every athlete you like would do. clayton kershaw is a hall of fame pitcher, but now the american public knows he's a hall of fame human being. >> nice guy. i love it. >> and it's the magic-filled things, we look at this picture about baseball, that it is a love of a sport that's passed down from generation to generation. after the red sox finally won the series in '04, you would hear stories of people that sat in the stands with their parents, grandparents their entire life in boston at fenway and never, ever saw the sox win a world series. then after they finally did, they would visit the grave site, take the program or some other memento and just sit there with

them. did you do that, mike? >> i did. i brought the final scorecard from the old bush stadium in 2004 with a little canister of infield dirt that i scooped up from the infield after the game was over, and left it on my mother's grave. >> oh, my gosh. >> that's remarkable. >> that's the magic of baseball. >> we'll be right back. c of bas. >> we'll be right back

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fulton county prosecutors have issued subpoenas to the 16 trump loyalists who worked as fake georgia electors in 2020. the move was made public by a court filing from lawyers from nearly a dozen of them, asking for a judge to rule against the subpoenas. the lawyers argued that fulton county district attorney willis, her office, initially said their clients were witnesses, not subjects or targets of the investigation, and that the electors had agreed to

voluntarily interview them with a team of investigating election interference beginning in april. according to the attorneys, the electors had the right to cast contingent electoral votes, drawing similarities between the 2020 actions and those made by democratic electors in the judicially contested 1960 presidential contest between jfk and richard nixon. the case stems from a plan devised after president biden won the state of georgia and its 16 electoral votes. some of the former president's advisers created groups of alternate electors in swing states with false allegations of voter fraud. nbc news has reached out to the fulton county district attorney's office for comment and it feels, joe, like things are really heating up in fulton county. >> yeah, they really are.

jonathan omeire, we've been talking about the inaction and other parts of this conspiracy by the justice department, but you certainly can't say that for the d.a. of fulton county. that case continues to move forward. it's moving forward actively. they're asking all the right questions. they're subpoenaing all of the right witnesses. and it appears that right now you at least have one officer, one d.a. who actually knows what they're doing. >> yeah, certainly, joe, there's been a lot of frustration among democratic circles here in washington about the department of justice. you don't hear that about the fulton county d.a. the district attorney there has been extremely aggressive in subpoenaing members of congress, even. let's remember, we just talked yesterday about how senator lindsey graham is trying to find efforts there because the phone call he made to georgia's secretary of state, brad

raffensperger, asking about ballots and whether some should be tossed out. donald trump calling raffensperger is at the heart of this investigation. now the scope has broadened and we're hearing about this alternate set of electors, which was part of the trump world plan, all of those memos that were being thrown around the white house in the days and weeks after the election to try to get an alternate set of electors seated for the number of battleground states, with the plan being that come january 6th, in those battleground states, republicans could point out, we've got some electors that say biden won, and some that say trump won. therefore, we should toss them out and in that case donald trump would get re-elected and mike pence would certify that. it was farcical at best, but still potentially criminal. >> so senator lindsey graham has reversed course and will cooperate with the subpoena by the fulton county grand jury. as part of the agreement, senator graham won't waive his

ability to file a potential future challenge. the court filing also specifies any challenges that senator graham may make to the subpoena will be made in georgia. his last argument was made in his native south carolina, which the fulton county dea said was improper. senator graham will answer questions related to phone calls he made to georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger and his staff about georgia's 2020 election ballots. joe, my question for you is, what could be worse than the call the president made? >> well, i'll tell you -- >> what more do they need? find me 795 or whatever votes, a specific number. >> that's what the kids call a smoking gun. you have the georgia secretary of state being told it can't be that hard, find me one more vote than i lost by, and then you have lindsey graham calling up the georgia secretary of state,

who, by the way, voted for trump, lifelong republican, loyal republican his entire life. and he just out-and-out says, lindsey graham was trying to get me -- i had the impression l lg was trying to get me to throw out legally cast votes. it's frick and frack, they stumbled into the wrong fascist conspiracy today and they talked to the wrong guy. because raffensperger has the receipts. >> first of all, joe, i just have to say i agree with mika. what else do you need other than the president himself calling and saying, can't you just finagle a few more votes for me. but then you add the senator lindsey graham element and, wow, this is expensive to be donald trump's friend and plotting to dismantle a free and fair election at this stage with graham being called now into

georgia, and he's going to have to, you know, go before the court and talk about what his role was. what is the point at the end of the day for these republicans who have just sullied themselves to help donald trump's fantasy, his coup fantasy? and that's where we are. and luckily, georgia have prosecutors and a d.a. who is taking this seriously and they're trying to have accountability and to take it seriously when someone tries to steal an election. coming up, one of our next guests says the united states has a hostage crisis, a journalist who was incarcerated in an iranian prison for 18 months will join us with his new piece for the "washington post." we'll be right back with more "morning joe." right back with "morning joe."

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go to the out of state corporations. a tiny share goes to the homeless, and even less to tribes. and a big loophole says, costs to promote betting reduce money for the tribes, so they get less. hidden agendas. fine print. loopholes. prop 27. they didn't write it for the tribes or the homeless. they wrote it for themselves. former president trump

apparently is still at it, still trying to overturn the 2020 election that he lost, that everybody around the world knows he lost. >> everybody inside the white house knew he lost. that's why he started calling in mr. pillow and sidney powell, the kraken lady who jenny thomas thinks hung the moon. so bizarre and sad, anti-democratic. >> hubris, a strange need not to be seen as a loser. well, when you lose, you lose. wisconsin's republican house speaker, robin voss says the former president called him earlier this month, earlier this month, to take back wisconsin's electoral college votes for biden.

take a listen. >> when's the last time you talked to the former president trump? >> within the last week. >> before or after he tweeted about you? >> before. >> what was that like? >> it's very consistent. he makes his case, which i respect. he would like us to do something different in wisconsin. i explained it's not allowed under the constitution. he has a different opinion, so he put the tweet out. >> i explained that it's not allowed under the constitution. he has a different opinion. >> trump has claimed the recent wisconsin supreme court ruling that the decision on the use of drop boxes is up to the legislature, not the state's election commission, would have retroactively changed the outcome of the 2020 election. the former president has alleged with no evidence that drop boxes were used in wisconsin to rig the race against him. >> he needs to get a hobby. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. >> it's sad.

this happens to retirees sometimes. they move to florida, they lose meaning in their life and they're wandering. here's the thing. >> okay. >> some pick up shuffleboard. that's all right. >> bingo. >> some do like bingo. it's very popular. you can get swept up in the excitement of bingo. >> there's pickleball. >> a senior who's on let's just say the back nine of his life and has failed at just about everything he's ever tried, maybe they could pick up pickleball. kenasta. >> mahjong? >> what is that? >> mahjong, it's a card game.

if you're a retiree in florida, you know what mahjong is. >> see, these are all noble pursuits in retirement that somebody could pick up. but continuing to attempt to overthrow american democracy through a fascist takeover of congress and continuing those efforts, you know, a year and a half later, that's not cool. if you're a florida retiree and you're thinking this is going to go well for you, well, look at your tv screen and understand sometimes you have to let it go. in the immortal words of american poet don henley, don't look back.

we need the pause there. don't look back. you can never look back. >> i just want to say for the record that if donald trump tried to play pickleball, jackie would beat him. >> that wouldn't work. now, by the way, there are people who are dead because of what this florida retiree tried to do on january 6th. let me say this. and maybe people disagree with me. there are good people that are sitting in jail right now that were swept up by the lies of this man, who actually believed they were coming to washington, d.c. to save american democracy. they brought into his lies. i saw this firsthand.

jim and tammy faye baker would lie every day on television to get my grandmother's money. my grandmother loved the lord. jim and tammy faye baker used that love of jesus christ to get her social security checks from her, much in the way that this man that you're seeing on the television right now used good americans' love of this country to rile them up to buy into lies to come up to washington, d.c. and storm the capitol, because he kept telling them that the election was rigged. >> coming up, today the house judiciary committee is scheduled to consider new legislation that would ban certain assault weapons. we'll be joined by the bill's sponsor democratic congressman

david sicily knee ahead of this hearing. david sicily knee ahead of this hearing.

♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it is the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe," 9:00 a.m. on the east coast, 6:00 a.m. out west. live pictures of los angeles for you this morning. jonathan lemire and elise jordan are still with us for the hour. we have a lot to get to, including the big story we've been covering all morning. the secret service text messages from around the time of the january 6th attack on the us capitol were deleted despite requests from congress and federal investigators that they be preserved. we'll have the latest on that in just a moment. also ahead, new details on the war in ukraine as the white house says it has intelligence indicang