and msnbc is going to have special coverage of tonight's hearing, beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern with expert analysis from rachel maddow, joy reid, nicolle wallace, and more, and then tomorrow beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern, andrea mitchell and i will host special coverage of what the committee found and what happens next. that is going to do it for me today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage right now. thank you. we're going to take you back in now to the other big story of the day, president biden testing positive for covid with that briefing still happening over at the white house. let's listen in. >> so isolation, yes, just for everybody, isolation is when you're positive, and you're isolating, quarantining is if you've been exposed. so that's the kind of difference in terminology. the isolation protocols, he's going to stay in his residence, we're going to minimize the -- i don't actually know what the plans are with the first lady in terms of -- i'm assuming she's going to stay isolated from the

president as well. but that's a good -- i don't know if you have anything more on the first lady, but obviously i think she will continue -- stay away from the president as well. smart decision, but we don't try to tell the first lady what to do. i feel some trepidation talking about what the first lady -- >> so, first of all, the first lady spoke to this directly. she's feeling fine. just want to make sure that's clear. she's going to continue to follow the cdc guidance and she's going to continue to wear a mask, and so that's what she is going to -- that's what she's going to do moving forward. go ahead. >> dr. jha, you said -- you talked about the test he had, what is the testing cadence going to be, will he be tested daily, and will it be rapid tests or pcr tests? >> so i don't know that there is much value of a pcr test at this point. it will be positive for a while, right. so i don't actually know what his testing cadence is going to be. cdc does not recommend any

testing for first five days. he will obviously be positive for some period of time, he'll stay in isolation for five days and then get tested after that. and will stay in isolation until he turns negative. but any testing he has moving forward will largely be an antigen test. >> you said his oxygen level was normal. can you be more specific about his oxygen level? >> he's feeling fine, he's breathing fine, his oxygen level is normal. he got a full physical exam, no issues, no concerns in dr. o'connor's assessment of him and his physical exam. >> last question, i'm sorry, cdc guidance says people who are post contact who are up to date on their vaccine, correct me if i'm wrong, dr. jha, are to wear a mask, a well-fitting mask for ten days after being exposed, possibly exposed to someone. you were on the plane with the president yesterday, other members of staff -- >> yeah, that's why when someone was asking me do we have a list of close contact, i am not

considered a close contact. according to the cdc guidance, i am not considered a close contact. >> dr. jha, do you stand on that? >> i can expand on that. >> according to cdc guidance, yes, i was with the president, but it was under 15 minutes, i was with him in short amount of time, i was wearing my mask the whole time, so to your question, peter when you were asking me about that, it is not that simple, not that easy, there is a process that has to go through and just because i was with the president yesterday, you all saw me with the president, i am not considered a close contact. jackie? >> emergency use authorization for patients who are at high risk for -- >> you've been watching, a critical briefing on an important day after president biden tested positive for covid and headlines coming out of this discussion with the white house covid coordinaor dr. ashish jha and karine jean-pierre. the president is feeling fine, they say. the president himself said he

was doing great that the white house released as he's now isolating, apparently the person who shot that video was in an n-95 masks and took the proper precautions. they're not sure yet if the president has the ba.5 covid variant, highly contagious, prevalent in this country right now. they're not going to know the answer to that for another few days. we'll watch for that. you heard the white house press secretary say it doesn't matter where president biden contracted covid, that's another question that folks have. contract tracing is happening. and importantly dr. jha emphasized that what is happening with president biden right now is a case in point as to why all americans should have the kind of care that the president receives. should be able to have access to these vaccines that are preventing the president from having a more serious illillnes. i want to bring in mike memoli who is joining us, scott wong and dr. natalie azar. we are learning a lot, not just from this briefing, but from a

number of different pieces of information regarding president biden here, you can see it on the wall here, we know he tested positive thursday morning, he's experiencing very mild symptoms. he's on paxlovid. this is something dr. jha talked about, interesting, he didn't rule out the possibility that monoclonal antibodies could be used for president biden potentially down the road. he is isolating, but obviously taking meetings, remotely. there is a discussion here that we just heard in the last hour of when we will see him resume his public schedule. for sure, not before the next five days. tbd on what happens after that. we know the white house residence staff is now essential only. and the first lady is continuing on with her planned schedule. she is a close contact, but following cdc guidelines. talk to me about what else you're hearing behind the scenes at the white house and other things we should know. >> there is a lot to unpack from the briefing, still ongoing. first, let's start with the president's condition. that's first and foremost what a lot of americans are concerned about right now.

the health of the president, 79 years old. the white house emphasizing that this is a president who is double vaccinated, double boosted, and now getting the best care possible, including that treatment of the paxlovid. one question that we had going into the briefing that dr. jha was able to answer, we know from the president's very detailed physical that was released last fall that he does take regular medication, el quist and crestar, and because out of the abundance of caution he's no longer taking those medications now that he's receiving care for paxlovid. there has been a lot of questions about the timeline of the president's symptoms. i was on the lawn around 5:30 when we saw the president return from the trip to massachusetts. he seemed in good spirits, waving at reporters, had just spoken to another group of reporters on the plane with him before he took off from andrews. and, you know, sounds like, especially after a day in which he, as the white house pointed out, was standing out in 90 degree heat, did not really begin to feel symptoms until overnight when as dr. jha said

he was told by the president directly he had a restless sleep. the president was tested this morning, as part of his regular testing regimen, antigen test that showed up positive. dr. o'connor, the presidents' personal physician, said they followed up with the pcr test that confirmed his positive diagnosis. and since then we have seen the white house going into sort of a mode of seriousness, but not one of a crisis atmosphere. they're trying to emphasize this is a moment they have been prepared for, we have seen a steady stream of information throughout the day, including statements from the first lady within minutes of the news being broken by the white house, about 10:20 this morning. the vice president later continuing with her schedule, unimpeded, speaking at the top of her remarks saying she had been speaking with the president, he's feeling fine is the line from the white house. he's not resting comfortably as dr. jha put it, but working comfortably. they're trying to emphasize the president is continuing to go about the business of his work. and we heard dr. jha talk about

this as something of a, you know, teachable moment for the country about what moment we are in with covid. let's listen to part of what dr. jha said along those lines. >> this is a reminder of the reason that we all work so hard to make sure that every american has the same level of protection that the president has. that every american has the same level of immunity, and why we have worked so hard to make sure that people have access to life saving treatments like paxlovid. these are incredibly important things for the president to have, and they're incredibly important things for every american. >> now, hallie, questions we still will be asking about in the days ahead, when did the president contract this diagnosis, this virus, he just returned from a middle east trip in which he was interacting with a number of foreign leaders, in saudi arabia, a lot of discussion around that fist bump which was attributed at the time rather than a handshake because

of precautions from the coronavirus. the president had a light schedule on monday and tuesday. the only time we have seen him before yesterday, that event in massachusetts, was when he greeted the first lady of ukraine, of course, when she arrived at the white house. the contact tracing we understand is under way now. the white house released the president's diagnosis, but now following up with other staff who were with him and the lawmakers who travelled with him yesterday. >> thanks. dr. azar, let me bring you into the conversation here. we know what the president's symptoms are, we know when he started feeling some of the symptoms including that dry cough that dr. jha described last night. give us the doctor's perspective here. what did you hear when your ears perked up? at what point did you think, let me follow up on that or as a doctor i would have more questions on x. >> yeah, i mean, dry cough is certainly something that i would expect and doesn't necessarily make me nervous. we know obviously that the virus enters the human body through the upper air way. it is very likely to cause some irritation in the large tube,

called the broncous, bronchitis. the concern is in certain individuals that the virus will start to travel and go into the actual lung tissue and set up house there and cause pneumonia. that's why everyone is so vigilant about asking about oxygenation and are you feeling short of breath and how is your cough progressing, are you having fever, because those are the kinds of things that, you know, finding symptoms when they start to go in the wrong direction, we start to get worried about actual pneumonia. there is a whole host of potential things that can go wrong in someone who is infected with covid-19. his age is, of course, his biggest risk factor. if you stratify deaths over the last two and a half years, you'll see the lion's share of deaths occurred in individuals who were older, but, again, his vaccination status will protect him hopefully from severe disease. it is impossible for me to talk about president biden without thinking back to when we talked about president trump, when he was admitted to the hospital.

he got remdesivir, iv antiviral therapy and joe biden got the oral antiviral therapy. president trump wasn't vaccinated. president biden is. and so i think he's going to stay out of the hospital because of that. but, you know, god fobid if he gets sicker, we know how to treat covid-19 in the hospital with a whole variety and range of medications to treat the potential complications from covid-19 infection. >> scott, to you on capitol hill, we know and heard again in the last hour how the president was in close contact with a number of members of congress over the last few days. you're hearing from some of them on the hill. >> that's right. a number of members of the massachusetts delegation did travel back to massachusetts to their home state with the president yesterday. this was so the president could talk and talk about his executive order on climate change. a number of those lawmakers have talked to us this morning and

said that they are taking precautions. senator elizabeth warren was one of those. she said i'm wearing a mask, i'm getting tested and i have no symptoms. senator ed markey from massachusetts said he is -- spokesman said he's testing this morning as he does regularly and will remain masked and socially distanced per public health guidelines. jake ottenclaus said he tested negative ahead of his trip with the president yesterday, as was the protocol and he tested negative again this morning. again, this doesn't really feel like two years ago when president trump tested positive for covid-19 because we know so much more now. we have the vaccinations, we have the boosters and so many of the lawmakers have, in fact, gone ahead and gotten vaccinated and boosted and many of the leaders on capitol hill have already experienced this. nancy pelosi talked about her experience getting covid earlier

this year. we know the vice president had covid. chuck schumer, the senate majority leader is just coming back from getting covid-19. we are gearing up for this january 6th hearing in a few hours now and we also know that bennie thompson, the chairman of the committee, tested positive for covid earlier this week. he is going to be proceeding in a virtual fashion in leading or participating in that hearing. so business is still happening on capitol hill. they are still moving forward with the january 6th committee, and obviously lawmakers are concerned about president biden, but they are sending their best wishes to the president as he deals with -- becomes just the latest political official to have to fight covid-19. hallie? >> scott wong, mike memoli, dr. natalie azar, thank you to

all of you. the white house chief of staff ron klain will be on deadline white house coming up after this show for an exclusive interview on president biden's condition, how he's doing and what happens next. here on this show, for the next 45 minutes, we have a big one coming up with the primetime january 6th hearing a mat of hours away, less than five, really, we'll talk about the new footage we expect to see and the closer look at these two trump us who insiders we'll hear from. and we have got breaking news into our newsroom on the missing secret service text messages. what our team is learning now about a new criminal investigation. plus, later, one on one with capitol hill police officer harry dunne expected to be in the room tonight at the hearing. stay with us. e expected to be i e expected to be i th such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma, or smoking. stay with usositive -

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we have got some breaking news on the deleted january 6th secret service text messages. it is now apparently a criminal investigation. that's according to two sources familiar with the matter who tell nbc news the department of homeland security's inspector general has launched that

criminal probe. let me bring in nbc news investigative correspondent julia ainsley with the latest. you're behind this reporting, along with our colleague pete williams. tell us what you know. >> well, hallie, we are now learning that as of last night the secret service became aware that the investigation into those missing text messages by the dhs inspector general is a criminal probe. when exactly it turned criminal, we're not sure. but the secret service learned about it last night. they received a letter telling them to preserve the communications, of course, and to stop trying to do internal investigations. in other words, they needed to not get in the way of what the dhs ig is calling an ongoing criminal investigation. i have to point out that just because it is a criminal investigation does not necessarily mean that there is, a, evidence of wrongdoing, it could turn out to not result in charges and it also, even if it does result in charges doesn't necessarily mean that there is a

nefarious actor here that intentionally deleted text messages. they could simply be in violation of the federal records act for not holding on to those very important text messages, which we now know are permanently wiped. it certainly ups the tension and the eyes and the scrutiny around why the secret service allowed almost all, all but one of the text messages sent between their agents on january 5th and 6th to disappear during a preplanned systems reboot without preserving those text messages. as we reported yesterday, they were warned twice before that deletion to hold on to their records and they were even told in early february, specifically to hold on to those january 6th messages. all of this coming now certainly turns up the heat on the secret service. >> julia ainsley, thank you for bringing us that reporting. these developments on these texts come ahead of what you know is going to be this high stakes, high drama primetime house hearing. the last for now of the

committee's planned hearings in the summertime, though they're leaving the door open for more. this is the last for now, but not for good. want a viewer's guide? here's what to watch for tonight, 8:00 eastern. this will focus on what former president trump and did not do for the 187 minutes from the attack started until he delivered a message to his followers telling him to go home. we heard from committee member adam kinzinger, he thinks this hearing will in his words, open people's eyes in a big way. he'll be one of the people leading tonight's hearing along with congresswoman elaine luria. we'll hear from a couple of key witnesses from the trump white house, former press aide sarah matthews and deputy national security adviser matthew pottinger, both resigned after the attack. also expect tonight's hearing to kind of recap the story that the panel has been telling from the very beginning. including that donald trump was told that his claims of widespread voter fraud were false, was told his lies were not true, but he pushed him anyway. the committee says without any

regard for democracy or the people who were affected. they say his words and his actions incited the capitol riot and you'll see some cliff hangers. among them, might the committee say they're calling donald trump or mike pence to testify? i want to bring in our reporters who have been all over the story, ali vitali in the capitol, joined by msnbc political contributors betsy woodruff swan, national correspondent for politico and punch bowl news founder jake sherman. ali, one thing i think is important for people to know, this is not just about donald trump's inaction, the committee says, on the day and the evening of january 6th, it is also about what they say is the fact that he enjoyed watching this happen, and that is going to be a through line tonight, ali. >> yeah, that's going to be a through line, something that congressman kinzinger said. he described it as former president trump gleefully watching on television. when i sat down yesterday with elaine luria, who is going to be leading that hearing alongside kinzinger, she made the point they're going to try to show clips from fox news, the former

president's preferred news channel, that showed the chaos and violence, that he was watching from the dining room, and that he was not acting on even as people around him urged him that he had to do something to stop the violence and tell people to go home. it is part of the teaser as the committee tries to establish that the former president was just sitting in that dining area, and, again, they used people who were in the white house and close to trump in order to do that, this is a sneak peek from congressman kinzinger he tweeted out a few hours ago. look. >> was the president in that dining room the whole time that the attack on the capitol was going on, or did he ever go to -- to your knowledge -- to the oval office, to the white house situation room, anywhere else? >> to the best of my recollection he was always in the dining room. >> mr. meadows, to the president, at all during that brief encounter that you were in the dining room? >> i think he was watching tv.

>> do you know whether he was watching tv in the dining room when you talked to him on january 6 th? >> it is my understanding he was watching television. >> you were in the dining room in these discussions, was the -- was the violence at the capitol physical on the screen, on the television? >> yes. >> and i think as ever there is this juggling act for the committee between the moral that they're trying to show, and the legal aspects that they're trying to show. the fact that we're going to seat former top white house counsel pat cipollone talking about maybe potentially advice he was giving to other people and the former president's orbit about exposures they could have if he didn't do more, that's going to be significant for people who are watching for the legal aspect of this. but the phrase that i keep hearing from members on the committee is this idea of a dereliction of duty and certainly the two people leading this hearing tonight are people who know what it means to honor an oath to this country, they're veterans themselves and it is something that congresswoman

luria and i spoke about. >> i think you're right. that's a phrase we hear again, probably repeatedly tonight. jake, let me bring you on this and what you're watching for. i know you've been working your sources on the hill too. >> yeah. a few things that we're watching for. number one, we just had someone almost walk in front of the camera, i'm a little frazzled. a few things, number one, this will highlight again, hallie, how much republicans are in a disadvantage. you'll have a parade of people suggesting that the president was watching violence unfold at the capitol and did absolutely nothing about it. there is no pushback here, not going to be any pushback, i'm not sure there is any pushback. there likely isn't. he was watching an insurrection at the capitol, an insurrection he in part fomented and did nothing about it. put that together, hallie, with the testimony we already have, that he did not call his attorney general, he did not call the fbi, he did not call the national guard, he did not

call the secretary of defense, and you have a portrait of a president, of a man, sitting in his dining room, watching an attack on the citadel, on the beacon of our democracy and doing absolutely nothing. that is a tragic image for the republican party that has just stood steadfastly and firmly and unflinchingly behind donald trump and it is just quite damning. that's the number one thing. number two, sarah matthews and matthew pottinger as we discussed, these are two people in the white house on january 6th, more people we had cassidy hutchinson, we had pat cipollone, we had all these people who were in the white house, a party to the president's thinking, seeing what he was saying, seeing his mood, understanding what he was going through, and these are two people who resigned afterwards, sarah matthews has been an aide on capitol hill, somebody who a lot of reporters interacted with at the white house. she is somebody who was a loyal soldier to donald trump and is

now going to testify, presumably, we have to assume, against him, in this setting. so and also and ali alluded to this and she's right, this is going to be not the last hearing, we don't think. this probe keeps ballooning and keeps getting more and more expansive and more and more people keep coming out of the wood work to suggest that they want to tell the information that they have to this committee. so we were talking about this today internally, hallie, with my colleague john bresnahan, i think they could go right up through if democrats -- if republicans take the majority. i think they're going to keep on plowing ahead without any real thinking and consideration, but not that they should, but without any real thinking of time because the majority could be fleeting and this committee could be gone next congress. >> they're talking about people inside the white house on the day of the attack, when it went down. mark meadows was.

he's not saying much today in washington. let me play a clip from one of our producers who caught up with him. >> opinions, obviously, speak for themselves. >> would you continue to work for him? >> again, i'm not commenting on anything that relates to the president running for january 6th. i don't comment on anything on january 6th. i don't comment on anything -- >> does it change your mind about what you went through with president trump? >> do you watch the hearings? >> i don't comment on anything on january 6th. i appreciate the job you're doing, but i don't comment on anything. >> so, mark meadows doesn't comment on anything related to january 6th. we know matt pottinger and sarah matthews will. sarah was covered by jake, but let's talk about matt pottinger, he's an interesting person, i think in this. we heard from him a little bit in these hearings, a short clip of pottinger's deposition on tape, where he talked about the impetus for him to resign this tweet that former president trump sent blasting his then vice president mike pence

suggesting pence did not have the courage to go along with this plot to steal the election. pottinger is not just high level, very high level inside the national security council, he's somebody who is in and around the donald trump orbit for years, former marine, former journalist, and now is coming out to sort of share publicly live for the first time what he saw. >> yeah, that's right. he was previously a "wall street journal" reporter based in china, somebody who is acutely familiar with global threats against democracy. and that would have been front of mine for him as he watched the violence unfold on january 6th. what else makes pottinger unique in this whole constellation of characters we have seen come in over the course of the january 6th investigation is that he was likely the longest serving trump administration official who we have yet to see on tape. everyone remembers the national security council is a little bit of a merry-go-round for a lot of the trump administration, trump burned through national security advisers, there was lots of staff turmoil, lots of chaos

within that incredibly important institution. and as all of that unfolded, though, pottinger remained on the nsc staff, and i'm told part of the reason that he -- that his career in the trump administration was both durable and ascendant was because the vice president mike pence advocated for him. pence was an ally of pottinger and played a role in him maintaining and increasing his clout within the administration. so it is no surprise that when pottinger signaled why he chose to resign on january 6th, he specifically pointed to that tweet that trump sent very much trying to impugn the integrity of the then vice president. pottinger just also brings a really detailed knowledge of the relationship between the white house and the national security apparatus more broadly of the u.s. government, given his post as a very senior national security council staffer. one of the big outstanding questions that the committee has yet to drill down on publicly

and in any detail is why it took the national guard so long to reach the capitol building on january 6th. that is likely subject matter that pottinger would have visibility into, the question is just are they going to have room to fit any detail on that, into a hearing that already is likely to be jam packed. >> a good point, betsy. that is another big question that folks have. i think we'll find out more tonight. we'll look for new footage. ali you reported, we'll see never before seen video of the members of congress trying to escape from the house chamber and the house gallery. i'm so glad to have all three of you today on this big day. appreciate it. we have breaking news in from steve bannon's contempt of congress trial. they're done for the day. closing arguments set for tomorrow morning, along with the start of jury deliberations. look at this. you can see some of the video of bannon with his attorney, he has come out every day of the trial to address reporters. yesterday he was whistled down. bannon wanted to testify, but

decided not to, because in his words, he said bannon would be barred from explaining the true facts. worth noting by the way that attorney you're looking at was part of donald trump's legal team during the former president's impeachment proceedings. remember that bannon was indicted by the january 6th select committee for not complying with their subpoena, they wanted to know more about the conversations he had with former president trump the days before the attack. i want to bring in ryan riley. it sounds like it is going to come to a head pretty quickly here, ryan. >> reporter: yeah, tomorrow is really going to be the big day here. this is a fairly straightforward case, so i think that's what essentially the prosecutors are trying to make clear to the jury that this isn't very complicated, don't have to make this a big deal. you have to look at the facts and follow them where they may. it is very likely that we could see a verdict as soon as tomorrow afternoon. if things stay on schedule, that's up on air with the court proceedings, but it could hold over the weekend and perhaps they come back monday with a

verdict then. that's what the timeline that we're looking at based on the court proceedings today. >> ryan riley. can i ask you a question before you go, what is bannon's team getting at here? from a legal strategy perspective, is this about getting through this and getting to an appeal? >> reporter: yeah, actually steve bannon was outside the courthouse a while ago and talking about how he still wants to testify. i believe we have video of that now. >> of any person in the trump administration, steven k. bannon has testified, what, 30 hours in front of the mueller commission, i think 20 hours in front of shift and the house intelligence committee, and then in front of the senate intelligence. 50 hours of testimony, every time the exact same way, executive privilege, a lawyer is engaged, they worked it out, and every time, every single time more than anybody else in the trump administration and quite

frankly, steven k. bannon testified. >> reporter: so, again, very unusual to have that sort of declarations during an ongoing trial, but that's what steve bannon has been doing here every day and we'll see how this case continues tomorrow and if we see him out there again tomorrow. >> and in the third person, no less. the biggest study less looking specifically at what or who motivated people to storm the capitol on january 6th. our ben collins is joining us in a minute. as the committee gets ready to make its case that donald trump did nothing while the capitol was under attack, we're going one on one with someone who fought to defend it that day. capitol police officer harry dunne joins us live next. ught tt day. capitol police officer harry capitol police officer harry dunne joins us have technology that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds...

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listen. >> fight for trump. fight for trump. fight for trump. fight for trump. fight for trump. fight for trump. >> we want trump. we want trump. we want trump. we want trump. >> i want to bring in now one of the members of our team who broke this story, nbc news senior digital reporter ben collins. it is not that this study is particularly shocking, right, it is not that the conclusion is all that surprising. it is that it is the volume of data the study collected and the way they analyzed the findings, no? >> yeah, i can hear your viewers being like, yeah, of course, this makes a lot of sense to me. but, you know, if you're the doj and you're charging people and very higher end of the government or maybe somebody who has never been charged at that level before, you need hard data like this. this is the largest data set of its kind from capitol rioters, 417 capitol rioters and their charging documents, the stuff

they told the cops when they were arrested. or if they didn't give out their motive straight up, their social media accounts that said their motive in the days beforehand, kelly megs, member of the oath keepers in florida, he interpreted on facebook that twitter tweet from donald trump saying it will be wild, he said it means we need to make it wild, he's telling us to be wild. it is 417 of the rioters, the largest so far, it shows the top reason by a lot is that donald trump expressly told them to go there. >> this study looks at the most shared links among these -- this sort of data set they had, 400 plus rioters. the second most shared link was this video from former president trump where he put on facebook where he lied about voter fraud for 14 minutes. it cites, you live in the world of misinformation, extremism,

online sort of swampy stuff here. what stood out to you on this? >> that's interesting to me, i don't think most people even remember that video. a 14-minute video from donald trump he posted that was like this, you know, i would call it pretty ratchet video where he stood and gave his whole this spiel about every election. this was a real reason for them, it was put out three days before christmas in 2020, couple of weeks before january 6th, and that was a big deal to them. it is a different universe. these documents are really completely different universe, where they felt the revolution was about to happen. in fact, that's the third most viewed motive in these documents is the revolution, there is civil war, these people were ready for the civil war. all of these dwarve the fourth place thing, which is peaceful protests, which is deep down on

the list, 7% of people said they were there to peacefully protest despite what the talking points from the gop tell you. >> what we're going to see at the january 6th hearing, the documents make clear that congressman liz cany, the vice chair of that committee, was mostly correct in her assessment, when she said that, quote, trump summoned the mob, assembled the mob and lit the flame of this attack. ben? >> yeah. they are effectively confirming this thing. look, i talked to joan donovan who ran the study at harvard center and she says that good sociology confirms what you already believe. it puts data and metrics to stuff you can sense and know is about to -- you know is happening. and that's exactly what it is. these documents basically confirm exactly that, donald trump knew what he was doing that day by riling the people up and summoning them to the

capitol. and really, i don't know if you -- if our viewers necessarily need that in data form, but the doj might and the public record does. so that's the fascinating part of this study. >> nbc's ben collins, great work, appreciate it and thank you for being with us this afternoon. as we look ahead to the hearing tonight, i'm joined now by somebody who is expected to be there, capitol police officer harry dunne, who was at the capitol on january 6th, has been, i think, officer dunne, all of the committee's public hearings so far. thank you for being back on the show, especially on a day like today. >> thank you for having me. i've been at all of them. >> i think i've seen you walk in to every single one. we're showing video, stills of you in the audience there. tonight is going to be fairly intense by all accounts, right, by what we're hearing from members of this committee about the attack specifically itself, something i know from our previous conversations is not easy for you.

how are you bracing yourself for tonight? >> i don't know. i'm just trying to figure it out. i anticipate it being difficult, i anticipate it being challenging to watch those videos and those clips of, you know, those terroristic actions that day. they don't get easier to watch. and the -- when i actually do sit down and see them, it is in the committee, i don't, you know, in my free time, look at these videos. a lot of these video clips, these are the first time i'm seeing them. so it is like raw, fresh emotion, and i don't anticipate it being easy to sit through. >> so given that, why is it important for you to be there in person? to be there tonight and to be at every single one of these? >> well, from the start, when i was asking for was accountability. and justice for the officers and people of this country. i want everybody who was responsible for that day to be

locked up. that's my selfish wish, my desire. it is important for me to be there because i want to see it all the way through. i've said over and over again, we did our jobs that day and now it is time for the committee to do their job. i do believe that they are. i think they're doing a fantastic job at presenting the facts and the evidence. just in plain layman's terms about what happened that day. and like i said, it is difficult, but it is necessary to see it all the way through, like, you know, this was an attack that, you know, we, yo you know, me and my co-workers we defended the country, the congressmen, the staff, that we defended the country against, and it is important to see it all the way through, no matter how painful and triggering it may be. >> what has been the thing that has surprised you the most about the hearings that you watched so far? >> you know, i've been trying to think about what has been surprising, nothing, really,

like, tonight if somebody sits there and says that donald trump invited three of his closest friends over, and they took a shot every time, i wouldn't be surprised. it wouldn't be surprising to me. nothing at this former president has done has been surprising. but it is all coming to light and it doesn't surprise me. but it is hurtful. it is a betrayal. but, you know, low expectations, i guess, i don't have -- i didn't have high expectations from him. and everything that we're experiencing -- that we're finding out is kind of just confirming those expectations that i had to not be really existing at all. >> and when you say that, you're referring to what the committee has said they would lay out, the inaction, what president trump at the time, then president trump did not do during the th. >> right. with regards to him calling off the riot and telling the people to go home, sending the national

guard or not sending, whatever, just getting us help and bringing us into it, into something he created. >> you said something, officer, you said you believe the january 6th committee in your view, here we are heading into hearing eight, is doing a fantastic job. their goal has been to show this link that to demonstrate that donald trump incited this insurrection. do you believe they have done that? do you believe they have delivered that message effectively or do they have a bridge to cross in your eyes? >> i believe they have done a good job. it is literally all about the facts, nobody is out there giving their opinion or a thesis or a hypothesis. it is all firsthand fact witnesses about what happened. it is very matter of fact. and the investigation is. it is not, you know, this fishing expedition and they're

literally just reiterating the stuff that people are telling them, who were there, the facts that those people, cassidy hutchinson, you know, the -- raffensperger and all those who will testify tonight, it is literally what happened. it is not what do you think, it is what happened. and that's why it is so -- i'm glad these people are coming forward and testifying under oath. it seems all the naysayers prior to these hearings, they have gone quiet because now it is like, wait, we have people that are getting facts here and just feeling their opinions on social media somewhere. >> let me bring it back to where we started this conversation, officer dunn, looking ahead to tonight and your description of how you are in some ways trying to brace yourself. you know it will be an intense and emotional evening. one thing that struck me about you, you talked very openly about the racism you experienced

the day of the capitol riot, you talked about the mental health journal y journey for you. can you share how that journey has been going, the help that you're getting, and the importance and i know it is important to you of trying to take some of the stigma away from being open about mental health struggles. >> you know, i try to be as transparent and authentic about everything, how i'm feeling, how i'm doing, what i'm doing, why i'm doing what i'm doing, because it is just being real, it is important to just be real and authentic. so many people are going through so many things, and once you realize that you're not out there, alone, going through these things or am i the only one who feels this way, no. i get messages from people all the time, and just saying that they're behind me or just sharing personal stories of things that they're going through, and it is just, like, wow, it is not just me. i said this earlier in the show, there is nothing new that can be

said or done to, you know, reduce the stigma of mental health. there is nothing new about it. but we just need to keep on doing it, and we need to be louder about, you know, making normalizing, seeking help and not being okay. every time that you are going through something, you every time you're going through something you have to realize it's not always going to be this way, whether it's good or bad, and we'll have to get through it, and you don't want to stay in one place too long whether it's a high place or a low place. live in that moment and then you move on to the next one because life ain't going to wait for you. it's not going to wait. it keeps going. >> capitol police officer harry dunn. officer dunn, i'm grateful it you for being back on the show tonight. i know you're heading back to the capitol this evening. i appreciate you very much. >> thanks for having me. good talking to you. >> a poll about how americans

feel about the hearings. more than 50% of independents believe january 6th is a threat to democracy. this is what pundits, et cetera, have asked and we have numbers behind this, it shows that at least among independents, 9% more of them since december say yes, they believe that january 6th was an insurrection. other than that, it seems like a lot of this falls along party lines. 90% of democrats believe it was a threat to our democracy and i want to bring in nbc news yamiche alcindor. 60% of people are watching at least some of the hearings. they are tuning in at least to some degree, yet it doesn't seem to have changed that many minds other than that poll we just talked about, yamiche. >> it's really remarkable when you think about the fact that

yes, people might be tuning into this and whether or not they changed their minds is the question looming here. i talked to judge luttig, the conservative judge who testified publicly and the one who issued the warning saying in 2024 former president trump and his allies may seek to overturn the election if the gop nominee doesn't win. i mentioned him because he is someone who literally is part of the hearings told me he hasn't watched any of the hearings. he still believes that former president trump is a clear and present danger. he tolds me that he hopes the american people are tuning in and taking this in and someone like that who is so connected to all of this, he's saying he's looking at the clips and learning about it, and making sure he's sort of watching along and that tells you how overwhelming some of these hearings can be. that being said, it is striking that there is this shift at least among independents about how they see january 6th, and i also think it's important to

note that lawmakers are trying to do two things here. they were trying to capture the attention of americans while also speaking to the history books and trying to make sure that they documented step by step what they say was president trump's conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election. >> the poll also shows the top mobilizing issue was inflation or abortion rights, vaughn. it's not as if january 6th is the thing that people say will drive them out to the polls. you're out on the field at the time, vaughn. talk to me what folks say when it comes up if it comes up. >> i was just in arizona, and it was 110 degrees out, but we went into a parking lot to go and talk to folks about where their hearts and minds were at and is it related to the statewide governor's race that was taking place and it was not the certification of the election and it was not the january 6th insurrection. a voter who voted for donald

trump in 2020 and voted solidly republican, the one thing she wanted to know was their stance on abortion rights, and i said, wait, would that suggest that you would maybe vote democrat this november? and she said yes. absolutely. it would be very difficult for me to vote for somebody who is against reproductive rights access and where it goes to this layered complex conversation when going out and talking to voters. there are so many issues here that are at play and think, when speaking to the states and what does it mean to be an independent nowadays? there are folks that would consider themselves to be conservative and to be pro-life and they have a hard time stomaching what they saw unfold on january 6th and the efforts to undermine the democracy that have come after this. so i know that these are real conversations that are playing out in households across the country and why so many people are having a hard time determining whether they are

republican and whether they are democrat and what it means to be these things in 2022. >> vaughn, and yamiche, i have one minute left. i'll ask you for a lightning round. 25 seconds each, what you're look for tonight? yamiche, i'll start with you. >> what information will they share and matthew pottinger and what information will they share and what they witnessed. >> vaughn? >> ultimately, to what extent is donald trump all but indicted for his knowledge in those minutes there as he watched this footage apparently unfold here because ultimately we are seeing republican candidates across this country continuing to take the stage with him, but as evidence comes forth and the doj ultimately determines whether to prosecute the former president or not, we will have a better understanding of just how potent he is as a political leader heading to twnts 24 and potentially beyond. >> vaughn hilliard and yamiche alcindor are two reporters who i know have criss-crossed the

country. thank you very much for being with us and appreciate your time and i appreciate you all for watching as we are teeing up to that prime time hearing just hours away. that special coverage beginning at 7:00 eastern right here on msnbc. i'll see you over on nbc news now for show number two in just a little bit, but for now "deadline: white house" with nicole wallace in the studio picks up in just a couple of minutes. in the studio picks up in just a couple of minutes. (cool guy) $30...that's awesome. (dad) yeah, and it's from the most reliable 5g network in america. (woman) for $30 a line, i'm switching now! (mom) yeah, it's easy, you can keep your phone, and verizon helps you with the costs to switch. (geek) wow... i've got to let my buddies know. (geek friend) we're already here! (vo) the network you want. the price you love. only from verizon.

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here we go. it's 4:00 in new york on a very, very busy day of breaking news. president joe biden today becoming the second u.s. president to contract the coronavirus since its arrival in the united states in 2020. president biden who is vaccinated and twice boosted is reportedly experiencing very mild symptoms. he's participating remotely in all of his planned meetings and that's according to the white house. we will speak to white house chief of staff ron klain about all of it about the west wing later in the program and we begin with what's happening tonight the capstone hearing from the january 6th select committee set to start in a few hours focused squarely on the ex-president's conduct on january 6th. it's a hearing on which the committee plans to bring to bear a mountain of evidence to close the case that it has been making for the last several weeks that the brutal and shocking violence that played out on january 6th was