when you have technology that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling] good afternoon. i'm chris jansing. with eight hearings now on the books, the january 6th committee have left all of us, including their own investigators with a lot to absorb and a lot more to dig into. just as they have predicted,

they've uncovered new avenues of investigation, most recently those missing secret service text messages from january 6th. the d.a. inspector general is now launching a criminal investigation into what happened. as a former dhs official quote "almost nothing about this makes sense. at best the loss of these texts is evidence of astonishing incompetence. it is indicative of darker motivations." i want to bring in ali vitali, barbara mcquade is a professor at the university of michigan law school, donelle works as a senior policy researcher at the rand corporation, katie benner is the justice department reporter for "the new york

times." donel, you've been watching this unfold. could simple incompetence explain what happened here. >> at worst it's a conspiracy, at best incompetence. this is unconscionable to find that some of the evidence of a crime, and this wasn't a small crime, a large crime that happened at the capitol. any evidence should have been secured. the secret service is a soft advertised sophisticated agency. i don't understand what's going on over there. but i'm glad and welcoming the internal investigation going on. >> what do you think it will find? are you confident they'll get to the bottom of this? >> you mentioned in your lead the parade of errors. there are so many bad stories coming out of the secret service just in the last few years, i

have no idea what's going on over there. they're a secret service. what we do know from the outside is that it seems to be a litany of problems, internal issues and every time the secret service says there's nothing to see here. i'm glad someone is looking at this. i can't imagine how valuable informing, they may not think it valuable, anything part of the record of january 6th was deleted or eliminated or can't be found. i'm aghast at this. >> so, barbara, what are the potential crimes the i.g. might be looking at here? and also, what are just the questions that they're looking at? where do you even start with something like this? >> it is a violation of the federal records act. all agencies are supposed to retain all of their records. it is a criminal offense for someone to deliberately destroy

them. it's punishable by up to three years in prison. a more nefarious crime would be obstruction of justice, i knew there was an investigation going on and i deliberately hid evidence and because i knew it would be bad for me or someone i know and i want to help. that is a 20-year crime. you begin by the people charged with this work. it might be people at the highest levels and might be simply some tech people. tell me how this works, how do you retain these? is there an automatic backup? i'm not sure i would give up so easily and accept the answer that it can never be retrieved. the secret service is the premiere agency for cyber security investigations and so if there are investigative tools that could be used to retrieve some of these tech messages, i think i would be inquiring about that as well. >> and speaking of the people they might want to talk to, ali,

zoe loftgren says many have hired private counsel. and that's that. >> reporter: that's that. we've seen them put new information and depositions and testimonies into the public record and now they'll have a month to gather that new information. they did say the fact that they've retained private counsel, those three people, is a bit unusual but nevertheless we will potentially see what the committee can get from them, even with the counsel that they have retained. because of course what the committee wants to tease out from those three men in particular is what was actually happening in the presidential limousine, one of the central pieces of allegations made by cassidy hutchinson. we did see pieces of that bolstered yesterday by the now retired metro police officer who spoke with the committee about what he saw in the presidential motorcade that day.

but again, all of this is just trying to make these stories as airtight as possible. the committee's already done a good job of that, but for them the more people they can get that speak to this the better. it sounds like they're going to use the next month to try to do just that. >> ali, i know you have to go on to some other work you need to do. katie, i want to talk about the backdrop of all of this, which was absolutely stunning, the kinds of calls going out from secret service agents on 6th fearing for their own lives. here's part of what we heard. >> i don't like talking about it. but there were calls to say good-bye to family members and so on and so forth. for whatever the reason was on the ground, it was about to get very ugly. >> so they're making phone calls to their families because they think this might be the last time that they have a chance to talk to them. even if you're just talking about an after action report,

how is it that given everything that went on, nobody preserved the text messages on a day like that? >> i cannot tell you why nobody preserved the tech messages on a day like that but certainly that was really chilling and i think it drove home the seriousness of what's happening on the ground and how it appears to officials like former vice president mike pence and how it appeared to people in the capitol who we saw fleeing for their lives as the rioters entered the building. one of the things the community has been skillful at doing is using moments like that to stand up this idea that the former president did not believe in defending and upholding the constitution full stop. liz cheney has been very skilled at making almost a two-pronged appeal. she's saying to the justice department, if this is the case we have now several republican witnesses who ardently wanted donald trump to win and he's saying he did not want to uphold the constitution.

is there a criminal statute that meets this and can be used in order to say this is wrong? and she's saying to voters, particularly republicans, this is a man who republicans say did not want to defend and protect the constitution and is this the man you want to continue to be your standard bearer? >> we heard merrick garland say we're doing our job. he knows people want it to move more quickly. what are his investigators saying? what in last night's hearing might have been of particular interest to those investigators? >> we know that the justice department, the top leaders, prosecutors are all watching these hearings with great interest. one of the things that they are looking at, they're trying to figure out what did trump know, what did he think.

what was interesting last night was how many officials said things like we argued with donald trump because he didn't want to defend the constitution because that's what we wanted. we argued with donald trump. other officials saying he just doesn't want to do anything to stop the riot because he believes the rioters are not doing anything wrong. that does speak to a state of mind and that's the sort of things prosecutors are very interested in if they're trying to build a case against anyone, particularly something so sensitive against former white house officials or even a former president. >> what occurred to me as i was watching some of the new and very disturbing obvious video last night is that they knew that there were weapons in that crowd. they knew that the people who were marching toward the capitol were armed. how do you even let them get that far? ultimately who made that decision to not stop them from getting there? the intel was all there and the facts were all there. they saw with their own eyes

that these were armed insurrectionists marching toward the capitol. >> i'll tell you who the person is who did not stop it, it's donald trump. we heard mark milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff saying this is the commander and chief of the armed forces. he did not call up the national guard. he did nothing, zero. we heard adam kinzinger say donald trump didn't fail to act, he chose not to act. to my ear that suggests evidence of the crime of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. there is a proceeding scheduled on january 1st at 1 p.m. to count the votes and certify the election and donald trump did whatever he could to make sure that did not happen. he chose not to call the national guard and activate them. he chose not to go on television asking the crowd to disperse. he chose not to send a tweet asking them to go home. he knew they were armed. he called rudy giuliani and he's

workings phones and calling senators to use this opportunity to delay the certification. to me that is additional evidence of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding and i think that hearing last night advanced the investigation of that crime. >> did you -- did your radar go up legally when you heard that the president kept the motorcade on standby for 45 minutes because he wanted still to get to the capitol? >> yes. and he kept his coat on. don't turn off the engine, keep the car warmed up. i might want to head up there. yeah, and i also think that we heard something interesting from that distorted voice who was a member of the white house security team who is so fearful for violence against him and repercussions that he had his voice distorted for his testimony. butch he talked about this, that if donald trump went up there, we were concerned not only for safety but also that what had been a political rally now turns into a coup.

and so i think that people correctly recognized that he could not go there because that's what it would become. i don't know what their master plan was but i'd sure love to know when rudy giuliani told cassidy hutchinson isn't it going to be great at january 6th, trump's going to be there at the capitol with the members and the senators and he's going to look so strong. what was the theory? he was going to ride in there on his horse and take back the presidency? it's really frightening to think about but i think we're only scratching the surface of what that plot really was. >> the one thing the secret service did do as we circle back to where we started, they kept the president from going, marching, further inciting anything that might have happened there. the last line of the article i read from the dhs official in "the atlantic," the secret service is in need of serious reform. do you think institutional reform can be at the bottom of

this and can changing be made? >> i think an investigation needs happen. there was another wrinkle to the testimony last night that i thought about is to your point, donald trump's secret service detail had full knowledge, had full situational awareness of the threat actors in the crowd with weapons, but it seems like mike pence's secret service detail didn't have that or didn't have advanced notice. they were taken completely off guard. was that information relayed between the secret service units or from the secret service central command? i'm interested to find out what information was given to mike pence's secret service detail and what was with holded. otherwise we need to do a real deep dive into what's going on. you see stories after stories, secret service being sent home from foreign details for misconduct, secret service agents being infiltrated by foreign actors. it's just a treasure trove of mishaps and unfortunate occurrences with them. >> that is such a great question

about what the vice president's detail knew. i thought it was absolutely chilling when he said there's smoke but we don't know what it is, right? thank you all so much for a great conversation. i appreciate you coming out. coming up, a bipartisan path forward for same-sex marriage protections looking promising in the senate. how soon we might see a final vote. >> and the political fallout following president biden's covid diagnosis. that's coming up. you're watching msnbc. you're watching msnbc. but colon cancer took him from us, like it's taken so many others. that's why i've made it my mission to talk about getting screened and ask people to share their reasons why. rls. they're always surprising me. to talk about getting screened

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on capitol hill democrats are seeing a path forward for a bill that would protect americans' rights to same-sex marriage after justice clarence thomas suggested the court should revisit that. at this time at least four gop force have signalled they would for a bill to protect same-sex

marriage after receiving 47 votes in the house. 71% of americans say they support it. joining me with more sahil kapur. how soon might we see a vote on it? >> reporter: it's still a bit uncertain in the senate, chris. democrats all 50 on board. they're about halfway to getting the ten they need. there's susan collins of maine, ron johnson, the senator from wisconsin is also willing to support this bill. he's up for reelection this fall. this is nobody's idea of a moderate and that position likely tells more about how he views his reelection in the competitive state of wisconsin than anything else. the fifth is lisa murkowski. she did tell reporters a few days ago she supports same-sex

marriage and has for years. presuming those five are on board, the path to the next five gets much steeper from there. this is where i keep my eyes on senator mcconnell. mcconnell is very sensitive to the fact that democrats are out there eager to paint the republican party as a bunch of perimeter and akronistic people. he wants it to be a referendum on president biden and for mcconnell it would be to take the issue off the table if he can get the ten republicans needed to neutralize it, let democrats pass it and move on. >> a vote to protect america's right to contraception lso passed in the house along party lines. what does it look like in the senate?

>> not very good. for two reasons. the first is religious exemptions. just eight house republicans voted to the contraception bill compared to 47 who voted for the same-sex marriage bill. many want carve-outs for those who oppose it on religious grounds. this one gets messy, it encroaches in the abortion space. there is a faction of anti-abortion movement, the so-called personhood movement that believes life begins at fertilization which could in that case, if that were to be reflected in law lead to certain types of fda approved contraceptives being banned. this is a radical view. this is not the mainstream view in the party or the country. remember with a lot of the power from behind this issue comes from, abortion and contraceptions. republicans are more leery of crossing those groups of voters than they are on an issue like

same-sex marriage where the trend is moving clearly in the direction of support, chris. >> thank you. with us is texas congressman allred. i wonder what you make of where we are now, it does look like same-sex marriage or maybe because it got people worried about it and yet maybe contraception, maybe not. >> good afternoon. it's hard for me to understand not voting for the right for american women not to get access to contraception. i do think it shows how far we've come in the movement of lgbtq equality that we are talking about some smooth sailing in some ways in same-sex marriage. we are having to do this because of the supreme court's action in dobbs and as you said clarence thomas clearly pointing to other

rights he thought should be stripped away. that's not who we are as a country, it's not what the american people want and so we have to enshrine these in law. i hope we can find ten republican senators on contraception and same-sex marriage. >> i want to ask you about what's happening in your home state of texas and it's not great here either, i think dallas, which is your home area, is supposed to be over 100 today. you guys had a run of just 108, 109 degree temperatures. first of all, is your grid going to hold out? >> i don't know. texans don't know if the lights are going to stay on in the energy capital of the world and that's due to republicans who get so many donations from this industry, refuse to regulate it and take the common sense steps to make sure. it's not a surprise when it gets hot in texas, it's not a surprise. we know that's going to happen. the winter storm a couple years

ago, you could say maybe there are some things surprises about that. but we know it going to be over 100 in texas and we are still asking folks to turn up their thermostats to 78 degrees, not to run dishwashers and conserves. >> you saw what happened. joe biden has been pushing for quite a long time to get something done on climate change. this administration has been very forceful. joe manchin, that's a whole separate conversation, but ultimately i think when you look, it may seem disparate but 71% of people supporting gay marriage does have an impact on how members in your house and in the senate vote. are you sensing in change in people's feelings about climate change, the need to do something, the need to pass legislation? >> well, certainly in my office one of the top issues in the

letters we receive, the emails and calls we get is about the environment. texans understand we're experiences severe droughts. hurricane harvey was so much worse than it could have been. i think texans are understand being the actual costs, the costs right now to them and their family of having their pipes burst because we had a statewide winter storm and the power went out or redo their house because it was flooded if you're living around houston or now having to take extreme steps to protect yourself from heat, that if you're out in it too long, it is literally dangerous for you. this is not a future issue. i do think there's movement on it among texans. i don't think this is something we're going to be able to ignore for very long. >> congressman allred, we

appreciate your time on a friday afternoon. as we continue our coverage of the january 6 committee investigation, how are american voters reacting to the latest primetime hearing? we sent our reporters across the country to find out and we've got some results for you next. you're watching msnbc. you're watching msnbc. if you have symptoms of covid-19, even if they're mild don't wait, get tested quickly. if you test positive and are at high risk for severe disease, and now you can too.

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millions of americans have watched each of the eight january 6th hearings and we are keeping our finger on the pulse of voters in our county-to-county series. shaquille brewster joins us from florida's duval county. what kind of impact are these hearings having on folks who are watching them? >> reporter: based on my conversations this morning and throughout the day, you really get a sense that people are watching and that mirrors the national polling. folks know there's an investigation going on. some aren't watching at night, in one case a woman was listening to analysis in her ear as i was asking her what she thought about it. we'll start with one who said they're conservative, independent, then a democrat and another republican. mr. >> i'm not supporting president trump in the upcoming elections

but it has nothing to do with the january 6th hearings. >> it's a good example of due diligence trying to get to the bottom of everything. >> i think congress should spend their time bringing to light more important issues. >> i think president trump was derelict in his duty as president, that he icited the riot and there are charges that can stick. >> that last man you heard from, about half of the americans say they want a charge to come from this. it's clear there are people who are watching this. what impact it will have on the mid-term elections is less clear, especially when you talk to some folks they say, yes, they're paying attention, they're watching what's happening, they have strong opinions on what's happening but it's not rising to the level that issues like inflation or

abortion are in their own personal lives. so this is something we'll continue to watch, especially since we know that there will be more hearings closer to the mid-term elections. >> yeah, it's going to be interesting. shaq, thank you for that. we also have breaking news related to the january 6th hearing. steve bannon is on trial because he defied a subpoena from the committee. now we are told there is a verdict in the contempt trial. the judge we believe is not in the courtroom yet. we're waiting to hear what the ruling is. a verdict in the case of steve bannon. we'll bring it to you as soon as we have it. meantime, if democrats lose their majors in the senate and house this november, it won't be because of a lack of money. democrats have a big advantage over republicans with big and small donors. a new analysis from "the washington post" shows democrats through their online platform act blue have seen a surge in donations of $200 or less, from $44 million in january to nearly

65 million in june. republicans on the other hand have seen a small decline in small dollar donation, down from around 30 million in january to 27 million last month. i'm joined now by the author of the article, "the washington post" senior political reporter aaron blake. good to see you, aaron. why is this surge in small-dollar donations so significant and is there a sense of really what's behind it? >> that's a really good question. i think that we often look at these numbers not necessarily to say which party is going to have more money when it comes to the elections because there are many different ways to raise money. you can raise large amounts, you can have super pacs, wealthy benefactor can bankroll an entire campaign these days and often do, but i do think the significance of this is when it comes to base mobilization, republicans in recent years, especially when donald trump came on to the scene, really closed the gap when it came to

small dollar fund-raising. they launched their own platform and that platform was very competitive with democrats. but what we've seen over the course of this year is even as republicans have demonstrated some momentum in the mid-term elections, many people expect that they will probably reclaim both chambers of congress. over the last couple months especially, democrats have really surged in these small dollar donations whereas republicans haven't seen an increase. they've been pretty flat with their numbers, similar to january. this raises questions about what the actual enthusiasm gap is between the two parties and maybe it's not as much in republicans' favor as we might have assumed. >> and it's not just the grass roots-type donations. senate democrats have actually been raising $53 million more than republicans in the last quarter, same in the house.

democrats raking in more money. what do we make of that? >> it really is pretty remarkable. it's not just small dollar donations. it is all money. the democrats in the senate races especially, the house is a little bit closer. in the senate races especially, there is a large imbalance, especially between what the democratic incumbents have and what some of these even, you know, trump supported candidates are raising, like j.d. vance not racing a whole lot of money. i think money matters less in politics than it did before. we're very polarized and people vote according to the national environment. i think it's worth asking the question is this indicative of an enthusiasm thing? is this republicans assuming they're going to do well in november but democrats being a little bit more mobilized to and

maybe since the overturning of roe v. wade. >> and money going to donald trump, his various fund-raising messages, they're constant and they have a lot of people who regularly give $5, $20, $50, money that might otherwise go to candidates that is instead going for stop the steal or whatever else that particular fund-raising e-mail happens to say. >> yeah, it's a really good question and i should emphasize that the numbers we have here, the blue and win red numbers include numbers for president biden and donald trump, so the joint fund-raising committee that those candidates have are included and we've seen even donald trump's news fall off,

especially in 2022. it's not just a matter of people necessarily shifting to other races, it is more of a large-scale thing and does raise issues of with trump maybe out of the picture a little bit, is enthusiasm for small dollar donors going away and maybe they're not even giving to him so far? of course all that could change the moment that donald trump were to really reenter the political picture in a big way if he were to run for president again. >> folks can see more of it. they can read the article on "washington post".com. appreciate you coming on. >> a tale of two presidents positive for covid. how biden's diagnosis is playing out much differently than what we saw unfold with donald trump back in 2020. a former covid response official who has been in close touch with the white house since the news broke is ahead. you're watching msnbc. ahead ahead you're watchin

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first, again we have a verdict in the steve bannon contempt of congress trial. and we're expecting an update on the president and his physician provided this update saying the president's symptoms have improved and he tolerating his paxlovid doses well. he is still dealing with a runny nose, some fatigue and an occasional cough. despite those symptoms, the president is maintaining his schedule virtually today. it's all part of the white house strategy that's been months in the works, shifting the narrative from a health scare to a teachable moment, showing president biden, like most americans, can get through covid with minimal suffering because they're fully vaccinated and the

treats are good. i'm joined by andy slavitt. good to see you again. i know you've talked to people at the white house. what are you hearing? >> as you reported, the president, most importantly, is feeling well. there are plans to continue to work uninterrupted is working well. the lesson i take away from this and i hope most people do is that with the tools we have available, getting vaccinated, getting boosted and having paxlovid, you are in a very different place with this virus. i guess we have lots of cases but the vast, vast majority can have the outcome president biden is having. >> when you look at the youngest kids where it was just approved, it's minimal the number of

children who have been vaccinated. what does the message need to be or we past being able to convince people? >> starting with over 50, it's really important that you have been vaccinated and boosted recently within the last number of months. that's one of the reasons why we can look at the president sitting at the desk today, why paxlovid is available. there's a world of difference. it's no fun to miss work, it's no fun to miss this trip to pennsylvania. in the scheme of things being able to be at home, do his job, stay connected to people for a small number of days and basically feeling well is a better place for us to be as a country and as individuals. >> he does seem to be responding well to paxlovid. a number of my colleagues have

used it and speak highly of it. there is a growing issue of something called rebound. symptoms improve but within days later symptoms returned. how serious of a concern is this in. >> i don't think that we should be interpreting from that that paxlovid causes another case. in some case, undoubtedly less than 10%, somebody gets covid that takes paxlovid but there's a little bit hiding so when you get off it, you still have some remnant symptoms. that wouldn't discourage me from taking paxlovid. >> as you're looking at this overall in the couple of days to come, what is of most concern to you with a 79-year-old man, even

though by most accounts he takes fewer medicines than most people his age and is in better physical health than most people his age? >> yeah, or my age. i think he does more pushups than me and probably takes fewer medications than i do. i think the lessons that the country should draw is how do you behave when something like this happens. what you don't do, as i think president trump did, know you're positive, decide still to travel around the country to minnesota, to a presidential debate, put people at risk because you're embarrassed to tell people you have covid. if you have covid, tell people. that's i think most important. let people know as soon as you know. the president did that, i think that transparency and disclosure is important. hopefully the white house will keep that up, it enables trust. you asked whether people are choosing to get vaccinated or

not. a lot of it comes from are they trusting information they hear. so you need to put out truthful information, it's really important for this white house. >> good to see you again today. thank you. appreciate it. >> and still to come, major news from the u.n. that could help alleviate the global food crisis. we have details live from ukraine coming up. and triple digit temps making their way east. we have the forecast for another sweltering weekend ahead after this. you're watching msnbc. you're watching msnbc.aches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start—with about 10 minutes of treatment once every 3 months. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

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i stil the verdict being announced right now in steve bannon's contempt of congress trial for defying a subpoena from the january 6th committee, let go to pete williams who has the latest for us. what's the verdict? >> the verdict is guilty on both counts. steve bannon was charged with two counts of contempt of congress, one for refusing to

testify before the january 6th committee and a second for refusing to provide documents to the january 6th committee. this jury just returned guilty verdicts on both counts. now we're waiting to find out what the judge says about a pending motion that had been made by bannon's lawyers who said that the case should be dismissed or a judgment of acquittal should be entered because he was never able to question in court any members of the january 6th committee or the chairman, bennie thompson. it's what's known as the constitution speech or debate clause and secondly because the government said it wasn't necessary to know what they said or did when it was the entire congress who voted to find bannon in contempt. so that's the last thing that we're waiting to find out,

whether -- that's the only other shoe that has to drop here. in theory, chris, even though in theory, chris, even though the jury has returned a guiltyay

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