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investigations into january 6th and based on the evidence we saw last night, he might not be the last given that blockbuster hearing from the january 6th select committee in prime time last night. the committee put in place critical building blocks in its case against donald trump having criminal exposure as the leader of the plot against the government he led. in a hearing focused on what was unfolding inside the west wing of the white house on january 6th and in the days immediately following. the committee laid out in extraordinary detail everything that was happening as donald trump holed up in the white house dining room in front of the tv and barred photographers from the room as the mob he riled up attacked the united states capitol. the committee delivered evidence proving trump repeatedly and consistently resisted pleas from just about everybody on the white house staff for a forceful statement of condemnation. that would have the effect of calling off and stopping the attack. something he could have done in a matter of seconds.

his deputy white house press secretary sarah matthews testified to last night, but instead of stopping or slowing or ending the insurrection, something that trump's allies and advisers knew only he could do, here's what trump was doing according to the committee. >> he was calling senators to encourage them to delay or object to the certification. here's kailey mcenany his press secretary to explain. >> he wants a list of senators and he's calling them one by one. do you know which ones he called? >> to the best of my recollection, no. as i said in my notes he wanted a list of senators and then i left him at that point. >> because the presidential call log is empty, we do not yet know precisely which senators president trump was calling, but we do know from rudy giuliani's phone records that president

trump also called him at 1:39 after he had been told that the riot was under way at the capitol. mr. giuliani was president trump's lead election attorney. at 1:49 here's what was happening at the capitol with president trump's fired up supporters. >> we will try and get compliance, but this crowd is effectively a riot. >> declaring a riot. >> hold the line! hold the line! hold the line! >> what did president trump do at 1:49 as the d.c. police at the same time were declaring a riot at the capitol? as you can see on the screen he tweeted out a link to the recording of his ellipse speech. this was the same speech in which he knowingly sent an armed mob to the capitol. >> his staff repeatedly came

into the room to see him and plead that he make a strong, public statement condemning the violence and instructing the mob to leave the capitol. >> and here's how white house counsel pat cipollone described the efforts to get trump to stop the attack. >> many people suggested that, not just me. many people felt the same way. i'm sure i had conversations with mark about this during the course of the day and expressed my -- my opinion very forcefully that this needs to be done. >> so your advice was tell people to leave the capitol and it took over two hours when there were subsequent tweets put forth and in your words were insufficient and he continues, mr. cipollone, throughout the period of time up until 4:17, continued you and others to push

toward a stronger statement? >> yes. >> were you joined in that effort by ivanka trump? >> yes. >> eric hirscher in? >> yes. >> mark meadows? >> yes. >> they're still startling. all these months later despite an incredible amount of still-missing evidence that the committee hasn't been able to get their hands on and that includes that there's nothing in the white house call log for an eight-hour period and nothing in the presidential daily diary, about the same amount of time. no photos of the ex-president in the white house except for this one taken 11 minutes after trump left his rally at the ellipse as well as those missing text messages from secret service agents from january 5th and 6th and even after the brutal and shocking violence that day failed to do what trump wanted it to do, failed to stop congress from certifying president joe biden's election victory, donald trump still

refused to tell the truth and say this it was over, that he lost the 2020 election pair and square. take a look at the extraordinary outtake posted by trump the day after on the 7th. >> this election is now over. congress has certified the results. i don't want to say the election's over. i just want to say congress has certified the results without saying the election's over, okay? >> i don't want to say it's tuesday. i just want to say the sun came up. what? all of it was intended to drive the public and the justice department to one undeniable, crystal clear and inescapable conclusion. here's how adam kinzinger put it last night in the end of the hearing. >> i think the president certainly has criminal exposure. i'm not a prosecutor. i'm not doj, but i certainly think if you look at what we presented tonight and in all these hearings, that cannot be acceptable from a president of the united states. like, the worst thing we can do is put out something to say that

the president is above the law because i guarantee you it will happen again if we say that. >> jonathan karl is here and the author of the new york times best-selling book "betrayal" which covers an awful lot of what we've seen in the prime time hearings and daniel goldman for the southern district of new york. the former majority counsel during donald trump's first impeachment trial. he's now running as a candidate for congress in new york. pete strzok is here former fbi counter intelligence agent and michael steele is back, former rnc chairman and msnbc political analyst. i am so excited to talk to all of you. i want to start where congressman kinzinger left us last night. all of the public hearings had been these taut, narrative cliffhangers. they have also served to dump into the buckets of acts and criminal intent that they

revealed that donald trump committed obstruction of an official proceeding and defrauding the u.s. government and seditious conspiracy, and i wonder with, daniel goldman if the effect of turn around this narrative that trump did nothing and revealing what he did do, he did call senators and he did bar photographers from the office. he was doing nothing. he was doing something, and it just wasn't stopping a deadly insurrection. >> oh, this is very important evidence to show his state of mind. you know, in conspiracies you will often put in evidence long after the object of the conspiracy was completed to show state of mind, to show consciousness of guilt, to show a cover-up because it's such damaging evidence of the actual conspiracy and the knowledge that what you were doing was wrong. let's just take a look at what we don't have. the fact that the photographer was barred from the dining room.

the fact that we don't have the calls and the presidential daily diary and now even the secret service texts and we need to find out who authorized the deletion of those texts, and that goes a very long way to show that somebody is hiding something and there's a reason why somebody's hiding something and doj would get to the bottom of that, but it's very damaging evidence of his state of mind and of his intent, but i do just want to take a step back, and i know i'm the prosecutor here so i'm supposed to be focused on his criminal culpability, but it is just mindblowing to me that the president of the united states sat there for three hours, watching his own supporters invade the capitol in a violent way to try to stop a congressional proceeding that he poured gasoline on the fire to encourage them to go after mike pence who his vice president

whose life was in danger, and he sat there with popcorn watching it on television and the commander in chief did nothing to stop it. this is not so much about a criminal accountability which should come later, but in many ways, this is even worse. this is a depraved individual who just sat there watching his own vice president suffer real danger to his life and he did nothing to help it. i know you want my legal analysis, nicole, but i just can't get over that fact. >> it's a perfect place to turn to. i mean, i think that jon karl, your book and your reporting covered so much of this terrain, but it is still shocking to see the evidence and the novel witnesses and the witness with the voice shielded describing what dan goldman is alluding to, that the vice president's detail according to a national security

official whose identity was protected by the january 6th committee said he was aware of calls coming in from pence's detail which were like the 9/11 airplane calls. that's the only modern historical reference where they were calling and asking people to send messages to their families, to their spouses and children because they thought they might die. >> and the actual audio they had of the radio traffic of the secret service of pence's detail, stuff that was preserved by the secret service and turned over to the committee where you hear the secret service agents and you hear the anguish in their voice and saying that the mob was a mere five feet away from where they were and they were clearly fearful. they didn't move him out quickly, they would not be able to move them out which then prompted those calls, the anguished calls to family maybes that their lives could be in danger. i think this was an incredibly

high-impact hearing because although we knew on january 6th that trump did nothing to stop what was going on, here you saw the detail of what he was doing. you mentioned the calls to senators. the calls to rudy giuliani, two separate phone calls. think about that. two separate phone calls to rudy giuliani while his supporters were rampaging through the capitol while they were inside that building, he was calling the person that was leading his effort to overturn the presidential election, and then, nicole, to me maybe the single most chilling detail is donald trump's final words before he leaves the west wing that night to retire to the residence, when he turns to somebody that i understand the valet and they didn't identify who it was, they just said a white house employee, but it was his valet and said mike pence really let

me down. so after all of that, after all that the world saw, that he saw take place on january 6th, his single takeaway is that mike pence let him down. >> it is an unbelievable window into his state of mind at the end of a deadly insurrection and it stands in such stark contrast so that the other never before seen footage of the other law makers, michael steele. i think they were in mitch mcconnell's office, chuck schumer and speaker pelosi and others, huddled in there with the acting secretary of defense trying to find out when the capitol would be secured and what's amazing is the range. it was five to six hours in the words of the acting secretary of defense and chuck schumer's question was is it days, five to six days. in the moment they didn't know when they could resume their responsibilities as lawmakers.

>> no, you know, just to pick up on dan's point of where this is rid now. tying it into the point you just made, are we -- are we now clear that donald trump didn't give a damn about being president of the united states and certainly didn't give a damn about being president of this country, didn't care about the country. are we now better republicans? you understand now what this -- what happened? because when you take -- when you take the evidence that has been presented and you juxtapose it up against what republicans did in the moment, right? in the moment, nicole, they responded as legislators, as frightened citizens, as americans in the moment and then to subsequently even to this very week still promote and say i would vote for this man again. yes, if given a choice between donald trump and a capable,

competent, you know, candidate for president, i'll take donald trump? what does that tell you about where we are and what does -- what has this committee put in front of the country in such a stark, naked way that you can't turn your eyes away from and that signature moment and what the capstone of the day, walking into the residence, the sun is set, the fires are still burning up on the capitol and the president's response is damn, you know that mike pence really disappointed me. so i don't know what more clarity we need. we have his mind, the mens rea, we understand it now was i don't want it say i lost the elections. after everything we've been told, everything we know, i don't want to say that. republicans mccarthy. you told him and he's still saying i don't want to say it. so what's your response?

okay. okay. we just won't talk about it, mr. president. >> yeah. >> this is where we are. we have an election coming up and people have got to look at this. >> yeah. i mean, look, pete strzok, i want to show you congressman raskin makes a similar point in terms of the mystery is solved as michael steele is saying we got it. we got him. let me show you that. >> we solved the mystery tonight, i would say. sherlock holmes had the story of where the dog that didn't bark was the key to solving the case, and here was the president who didn't act, and that was the key to solving this case, and this is like i was thinking about it tonight kind of a moral trial of the president where the whole country just gets to use their common sense and figure out what happened and there can be no question that donald trump was at the absolute center of the conspiracy to overthrow the election and to assault our

democracy. >> so he's talking about a moral trial. it's obviously very different from a criminal trial with the fbi and doj running the investigation and prosecution. have you seen enough to be convinced that an investigation into donald trump should be open? >> oh, no doubt. there's no doubt in my mind that there should be an active investigation going on by the fbi and another investigative components of doj and the u.s. government. that is a necessary first step before we get anywhere near discussing between elements of the crime were met to bring charges and for several months at this point well beyond the place where a good, reasonable debate within the halls of doj involving the senior leadership and others, can look at the facts and can look at the things that donald trump has done and demonstrated on the record and all of the evidence that's been collected certainly among the conspirators, the proud boys and oath keepers, people like rudy

giuliani. remember, rudy giuliani had his devices and they seized them for over a year now. so that material has gone through a filter team and has been exploited and there's little doubt in my mind that there's more than sufficient evidence to open a case on donald trump. the question is, of course, what worries me is in "the new york times" reporting wyndham, heading up the entire investigative effort expresses frustration of not being able to mention trump a name until the past few january 6th committee meetings where suddenly that seems to break the silence in the upper levels of doj, but i do take heart. attorney general garland this week and was in a restrained way and he said in unequivocal terms this is the most significant and largest investigation in doj's history, and there has been hedging about what it was and wasn't, but his statements made it clear they understand exactly

what they're looking at and he was adamant that he won. he's been listeninging to some of the criticism because he took on these questions about whether do, j was looking at it appropriately and he sig will nahhed clearly, they are well aware of it and they are examining every aspect of all of this and they're not going to stop until they get to the end of it. >> yeah. i, dan geldman, he's not the the end of it. he's the beginning, the middle and the end of it including pat cipollone by not saying anything at all outs donald trump and he was the only person that was pro-insurrection and pro-violence and pro-hanging mike pence. let me play that. >> and you and the staff did not want people to leave the capitol? >> on the staff? >> in the white house -- >> i don't -- i can't think of

anybody, you know, on that day who didn't want people to get out of the capitol particularly once the violence started, no. i mean, -- >> what about the president? >> yeah. >> she said the staff. so i answered it. >> no, i said in the white house. >> oh, i'm sorry. i apologize. i thought you said who else on the staff. [ no audio ] >> i can't with communications, and honestly, i think -- yeah.

>> so what pat cipollone testifies to there, dan goldman, is that only donald trump wanted people to stay at the capitol and continue their violent siege of the u.s. capitol that imperiled the life of not just vice president mike pence, but of all the lawmakers and now we have very real evidence that's been entersed into the public arena that the secret service agents were so afraid for their lives that they were sending good-bye messages to their families. what do we do with this piece of evidence now? >> you know, it is a remarkable escalation, i think, of these hearings where donald trump is increasingly isolated and isolated. we have that in the last hearing. we had the december 18th meeting where he had the crazy sydney powell, rudy giuliani, patrick byrne from overstock and pat cipollone had to run into the office to sort of save it and

now we're left in this last hearing with donald trump all alone. he's all alone in the dining room and he is all alone as the only person left who wants to see what is going on at the capitol go on. his children are urging him to stop it. sean hannity, his allies are urging him to stop it, every single staff member and senior adviser is desperately trying to get him to stop the rioters, to say something, bub he is sitting there alone, the last man standing, the last man trying to hold on to his ultimate objective and that's what this was. he was just trying to delay. delay, delay, delay, because it wasn't working with pence now and the only thing he had was to delay the certification, and i would just add one more thing, nicole. i think we're at a point right now and as a former prosecutor it's unusual for me to even say this because there is a presumption of innocence in this country. i think for doj right now

there's a presumption of guilt or at least a presumption of charging him, and they would have to uncover unknown or unseen evidence or potentially a legal defense though i can't imagine one that is, that would prevent them from charging him, but based on what we know right now, donald trump committed a series of crimes in his effort to overturn the election in 2020. >> jon karl, i found the sound that i asked you about before. i want to play it, and i want to ask you about something i hadn't heard before that this witness is in your reporting, the valet. this is congresswoman luria drawing out this piece of evidence in the committee. >> here's what they had to say about their boss.

murrtag said the death of a police officer. he responded, that's enraging to me. everything he said was a lie to which he replied, you know what this is, of course, if he acknowledged the dead cop he'd be implicitly faulting the mob, and he won't do that because they're his people. and he would also be close to acknowledging that what he lit at the rally got out of control. no way he acknowledges something that could ultimately be called his fault. no way. >> jon karl that wasn't it, i called up the wrong one, but this moves us forward. this seems to fall under the bucket of evidence the committee has presented to squarely out the knowledge and the corrupt intent that they were so confident that trump was

responsible. he lit and it is disgusting that they describe it as a dead cop. these are private text messages and that's how they talked and it was a reveal in and of itself, in the moment they were aware of his culpability. >> brad pascal said he was a shamed and felt guilt they he helped elect him president and this was a text chain on january 6th and they knew what happened, happened by donald trump and back to the valet for a moment and in the previous hearing liz cheney said that a member, a white house employee, donald trump had attempted to call a white house employee and the lawyer for that employee had informed the committee about this, and it was clear evidence that liz cheney was suggesting

of witness tampering, the former president himself to tamper with a potential witness, and i don't know. we don't know who she was talking about, but i think the way the description in the last hearing of who donald trump attempted to call and the description of who said this is very, very significant and it's notable that they decided not to name that individual, but one other point, they made it clear there will be more hearings in september. this committee is going to run out of time before it finishes its investigations. as you know, i wrote a book about this entire process, and i've seen the committee go almost chapter by chapter and reveal new details about what i saw as donald trump's betrayal of american democracy, but there is stuff they haven't gotten to yet that i think is potentially very significant. one is what was going on at the

pentagon? as you remember, right after the election there was the purge of the civilian leadership and one detail that i reported in betrayal was of michael flynn calling his former employee who was now the under secretary of defense for intelligence. that's the person that has oversight over special operations forces at the pentagon. michael flinn calling that american, ezra cohen trying to get his help to attempt to overthrow the election and cohen refusing and there's a lot more to be revealed than what we've seen already. >> it's such a good point. we've barely scratched the surface. that call with secretary miller, and i guess we heard from general milley, as well and not a deep dive. everyone is going to stick around. when we come back, a call for accountability from a first responder and we'll hear how the dereliction of duty has affected

those who served to protect him, plus how the secret service is handling those deleted text messages and not very well so far with every new development making the disappearance of those messages more suspicious. we'll have a chance to speak to a former top official from that agency about what should happen next. later in the program we reported at the top of the hour, a jury has found steve bannon guilty who chose an allegiance to trump over the law and our friend will have more on that, and all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. stay with us. house" continues after a quick break. stay with us that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling]

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[ ominous music playing ] it's here. are you ready? let's go baby! [ screaming ] what happens next? you'll know soon enough. it's not just about a lack

of action, but the lack of action is in itself an action and a choice. he chose not to do anything even though he knew the power his words had over his people, and it's just -- it's a dereliction of duty. he knows that he could have stopped the attack on this branch of government at any time, and he didn't. i have no doubt that trump is going to run again because he feels he's insulated in the political office from many legal ramifications for his actions and you know, so far he's been proven correct about that, but i'm hoping the justice department takes -- takes everything that they've been investigating hopefully and everything that the committee has been putting forward and puts it together and puts a case together that will defend the country against the current and likely future attacks on democracy. >> it is a near-perfecten capsulation of this moment and

that was metropolitan police officer daniel hodges right here on msnbc calling forring had that harry dunn called for last week, accountability, for the attack in which he nearly lost his life. michael steele these amount to almost victim statements and they had the effect of cutting through the noise and the humina, humina, humina. he said i looked into the eyes of those that were there to kill me and their brazenness to carry out these crimes and obviously they're responsible for what they did, but it came from trump and it's liz cheney's frame on this whole thing, until you deal with the head of the fish, it's going to continue to swim. >> that's exactly right. everybody there, everybody's presence on the hill that day including the officers who were later called in, the d.c. police who were called to the hill to

defend the capitol. they all have an origin story, and at the center of the origin story regarding this event is trump, is that white house, and those within that orbit that allowed this to go on as it did, from the chief of staff who by hook or crook was not able to pull the president back from the brink, and gave into it as we are now learning more and more about. so for these officers when they're sitting there and they're listening to this narrative play out inside that building, inside the white house given what they were doing on the hill to defend the capitol and to protect each other's lives, it has got to be painful. it has got to be very hard and accountability is the only island they have for refuge. it is the only space that they can go to where they can begin

to feel that what they did that day has been officially acknowledged by the country and by this legal system by holding the president and those others accountable. >> pete strzok, the only part of what doj is doing that we have much visibility into, the only thing we know for certain to be under investigations is the violence carried out by the insurrectionists. let me play some of the oath keeper radio traffic that ties donald trump to their every move on january 6th. >> trump just tweeted, please support our capitol police. they are on our side. do not harm them. >> that's saying a lot, but what he didn't say, he didn't say not to do anything to the congressmen. [ laughter ] >> well, he did not ask them to stand down. he said stand by the capitol police. they are on our side and they are good people.

>> i want to pick up on something you said in your last answer, but i don't want to pile on -- oh, heck, i will. it's a friday. why don't these investigationses go up more quickly to donald trump? i mean, with the oath keepers are saying they did what they did because they thought they were there on orders by donald trump and they adjusted their battle plan. they veered off the medieval hand to hand combat with capitol police officers and they thought they had a green light to hunt mike pence and members of congress. >> nicole, i think it takes time to get there. doj has been building first individual charges and then we have two right now well-developed conspiracies where we have oath keepers and the proud boys charged with obstructing a proceeding in front of congress. what i would expect to see in the next instance is some of those people who were charged facing 20 or more year prison

sentences deciding they don't want to wear an orange jump suit for the rest of their natural life and they wrap up roger stone. they wrap up rudy giuliani and they wrap up mike flinn and from there that process and they potentially face charges and there you get to people directly in charge of trump, and one thing i don't want to leave here unaddressed and i appreciate, one, the police officers there bearing witness to what happened because it is absolutely not part of the culture. the culture is you bear the mission silently and you don't talk about these things and understanding all about trump, i was struck last night by josh hawley and the fact that it was brought up, the testimony as he's pumping his fists and watching the gavel and with bear spray and to have a senator

encouraging that and then to see him scurrying out like ned flanders out to safety, and as a police officer and know that these are the people you are protecting, but it enraged me and i cannot imagine there is a police officer there on the ground that yes, let's talk about trump and let's talk about the extraordinarily irresponsible senators and congressmen that are the direct beneficiaries of these law enforcement officers and how we hold them accountable, as well. >> and the officers, of course, who lost their lives to suicide and other injuries as well as the officers who won't get to be law enforcement officers anymore because of the injuries they sustained to say nothing of the ptsd that affectses countless officers who were there that day engaged in medieval hand to hand

combat in their own words, pete strzok, jonathan karl, peter goldman, michael steele, i am so grateful for each and every one of you. we are learning more about those purged january 6th secret service messages. a top official and how the agents have now retained private counsel, have lawyered up in the criminal probe. that's next. counsel, have lawyered up in the criminal probe criminal probe that's next. and lost some weight. announcer: ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1ct att, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds.

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some of the officers who have said that they would be coming and talking, they have not come in and they've recently retained private counsel which is unusual, but they have a right to do that. >> when you say the officers have retained private counsel would that be -- >> and the driver. >> and the driver? >> january 6th committee member congress member zoe lofgren with more detail, secret service agents now retaining private counsel as the probe into those missing text messages turns into a criminal one. anthony ornato, robert engel, the head of trump's security detail on january 6th who trump lunged at who refused to take him to the capitol that day as well as the driver of that vehicle. the news comes amid a new criminal probe by the dhs

watchdog and a requests deadlines from the national archives as to whether federal law was violated. a month's worth of text messages and potential evidence had been purged when the phones of 24 agents that the new york times now says, quote, mostly people involved operationally with january 6th and it includes james murray, the director of the secret service and a member of donald trump's protection detail including one robert engel. joining us now is gordon hidel and served as former inspector general of the labor department. thank you so much for being with us. i say all of the time having been a white house staffer i benefited from being adjacent to protectees as they had a noble mission, but this is a blossoming scandal that nothing else has seemingly damaged the reputation of the secret service. what do you think explains that?

>> well, nicole, it has not been a good four or five years for the secret service for a whole bunch of reasons and it's not necessarily something that it isn't complex because frankly, it is. if we're just talking about the texts, i think the service has not handled that as well as they should have. i mean, the secret service has enjoyed the status of being one of our nation's most elite organizations, and i think it needed to act quickly and response usually and at least from the standpoint of quickly. it didn't do that, and now it's paying the price because suspicion has been created about whether or not these missed text

messages were deleted intentionally or deleted accidentally or is it a matter of simply mismanagement and of course, we don't entirely know yet. we know that the service has to find its way back on this. so, you know, when an inspector general, in this case the dhs inspector general conducts an investigation, he normally -- he or she normally asks an organization in this case, the secret service to halt their own review. so this has created some consternation within the secret service, and i can tell that by reading the news reports, and it may not be what the secret service wants and and the service becomes protected from conflict of interest and the appearance that it might be tampering with evidence or

retaliating against witnesses. so what can happen here is the service or individual involved can begin to see themselves as potential targets here. i don't know that the service has named or that the ig has named any target, but here they have retained attorneys. as an ig i saw many times where people that were not targets, they retained attorneys because they just wanted to play it safe. >> sir, if you don't mind, i'd like to play some of the radio traffic from the secret service agents who were protecting vice president mike pence on january 6th. it's absolutely harrowing. it took place from 2:14 to 2:24 p.m. on the day of the insurrection. >> the members of the vp detail are starting to fear for their own lives. there was a lot of yelling, a

lot of -- a lot of very personal calls over the radio. so -- it was disturbing and i don't like talking about it, but there were calls to say good-bye to family members, so on and so forth. for whatever the reason was on the ground the vp detail thought it was about to get very ugly. >> that was the testimony from an anonymous witness. let me actually play the secret service radio traffic so we hear them in their own voices. >> they've entered the building! hold! >> we need to move now. >> copy! >> if we lose any more time we may have -- we may lose the ability to leave. so if we're going to leave we need to do it now. >> they've gained access to the second floor, and i've got five feet from down below. >> copy. they are on the second floor, moving in now.

you may want to consider getting out and leaving now. copy. >> what should we understand about how extraordinary that is? i traveled with the president for almost five years and can't remember -- i wasn't with him on 9/11, but i can't remember a situation where agents would have called to say good-bye to loved ones or where the margins for error were so slim. what do you hear when you hear that testimony and that traffic? >> yeah. a good question, nicole. >> the outer perimeter of the capitol had been breached. hundreds of attackers had entered the capitol and they were looking for vice president pence. time was not on the side of the secret service. they needed to get the vice president and his family out and they needed to do it quickly, but they were aren't going to just run out into nowhere without a plan and they had to quickly devise a plan, a route

and determine what the expectations were when they got to those locations, but my experience tells me with pretty high certainty, that this was their focus and nothing else and to their credit, they were successful, but look, with respect this frantic radio traffic and i'm using that term only because that's what i hear being used on the news. i'm skeptical. it may have sounded that way to the source who reported it and it may sound that way as you play it for me just now. but let's face it. this was a very unusual day in our history. but it's not consistent what this frantic allegation, it's not consistent with anything i can ever recall in my experience and i had a lot of experience in the secret service. in fact, as a special agent in charge of the vice presidential protective division. however, i will say this.

anyone who says that the secret service openly voiced fear or took time to reach out to family during the insurrection of the capitol hasn't known many secret service agents. i heard the allegation and i'm very skeptical that it happened the way it's being reported. >> that's very interesting. i'm going to ask you the stick around through a commercial. i want to ask you if it's ever appropriate for a secret service agent to go to work in a political post for a sitting president. we have to sneak in a quick break, but we'd love to hear your thoughts on that on the other side. your thoughts on that on the other side

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so you can get going. learn how abbvie can help you save. we are back. gordon, is there any way that you can help us understand how many norms are obliterated when a secret service agent goes to work for the person he's supposed to protect on part of his political staff? >> yeah, nicolle. you know, i mentioned before we went to the break that the situation going on right now has created a tremendous amount of doubt but that, in my opinion, began when the secret service allowed one of its agents to serve a political position in the white house and that doubt has continued up until present time. now, politics is something that

traditionally the secret service has always tried to avoid and yet, of course, there's politics in everything. politics has flooded our government operations. it has no place in our government workplace. particularly not in the secret service where it can erode and distract from an agency's focus. and what happens here, obviously, was the former president who brought a secret service agent, an executive into the white house to serve as chief of staff of operations. that was a tremendous mistake. and at that very moment when that was announced, that should have set off bells, whistles and sirens to cause great concern within the secret service and it's a moment in time where the leadership of the secret service has to put its foot down. has to say it's not right. it's not good. it hurts us. politics distracts from the secret service's mission.

from achieving its goals of protecting and yet i don't know what the director did. maybe he tried and maybe he just wasn't successful. but the result was disastrous. and it accounts for, i'm sorry, it accounts for a lot that i think has happened. >> yeah, he went back, i believe. i believe it was like a revolving door sort of scenario. >> which is the cue degrau. it wasn't right to go over and maybe it wasn't right to come back. >> right. i'm sure we will have more questions for you as we continue to cover this. thank you very much for spending some time with us today. >> thank you, nicolle. up next, a former adviser to the january 6 committee who helped the committee build a case that they presented last night. we're also going to bring you the news we told you about, a

guilty verdict for steve bannon. much more ahead for us. don't go anywhere. annon. much mor or... his nose. don't go anywhere.

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in the course of these hearings, we have received new evidence and new witnesses have bravely stepped forward. efforts to litigate and overcome immunity and executive privilege claims have been successful and those continue. doors have opened, new subpoenas have been issued and the dam has begun to break. and now, even as we conduct our ninth hearing, we have considerably more to do. >> in other words, we're just getting started. hi, again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. at the beginning of last night's hearing, a marker was set. the january 6th select committee's work not even close to being complete. the committee announced that it will reconvene for further public hearings in september as they go through and continue to

gather more evidence. things that have come to light since they began this series of public hearings. there's a lot still ahead for what is already a sprawling inquiry. at this point, the select committee has interviewed more than 1,000 witnesses. it has received nearly 150,000 documents, 4,000 tips, and has issued 98 subpoenas. adam kinzinger has been speaking about the significance of the committee's work, conveyed this frightening warning. >> the forces donald trump ignited that day have not gone away. the militant, intolerant ideology, the alienation, disaffection, the weird fantasies and disinformation. they're all still out there ready to go. that's the elephant in the room. but if january 6th has reminded us of anything, i pray it has reminded us of this. laws are just words on paper.

they mean nothing without public servants dedicated to the rule of law and who are held accountable by a public that believes oath matters, oaths matter more than party tribalism or the cheap thrill of scoring political points. we the people must demand more of our politicians than ourselves. >> called it the elephant in the room. it was a powerful and important warning about the importance of upholding the rule of law in america. as we know, donald trump is likely to announce another candidacy for the presidency in 2024 in the coming months. new reporting in axios pulls back the curtain on the plans to fully surround himself with loyalists should he ever hold office again. moves that would quote, radically reshape the federal government. brings us back to the committee

and its push to hold those responsible for the deadly insurrection to account. liz cheney posing this critical question. >> and every american must consider this. can a president who is willing to make the choices donald trump made during the violence of january 6th ever be trusted with any position of authority in our great nation again? >> it's where we start the hour with former republican congressman. he served as an adviser to the committee. also, former acting solicitor general, now msnbc analyst. denver, watching this last night, i was brought immediately back to your quasi curtain raiser about how much data they have. we really saw the fruits of that. it's probably rather tedious investigative work. the narrative that some did nothing was blown up. trump did something.

he kept the photographers out. the call log is empty. he had the tv on and was calling senators. is the evidence part of what the committee believes is his participation in the seditious conspiracy? >> i think what they really showed yesterday that he was deliberately obstructionist. it's something we've been looking at for a long time. when you showed the data lines, right, with the 150,000 pages of documents, things like that, there's things the committee hasn't released and there's a lot more data than that into the millions of lines of data that the committee has access to. so what they're trying to do is match all that data and what they've had for the first eight hearings, i've been very impressed. they have really set the narrative using facts of the story in order to get to the american people and they have been able to blend those documents with their investigative teams. i didn't know when she said the best was yet to come, she was talking about the january 6th

committee. that's what we're seeing now. we're seeing that the committee, even after eight hearings, still has momentum and i know for a fact, i am not guessing here, nicolle, i know for a fact they have a lot more data. an amazing amount of data and an amazing investigative team that is really doing god's work for this country. i'm just really proud of them and i'm excited to see how they wrap it up come september and also the final reports. >> is some of that data the reconstruction of the phone calls that donald trump made during the insurrection? >> that's what i noticed. love your questions. i love it. fantastic. so, when they talked about the 187 minutes, what i think you noticed is they really talked about the gap in the call logs. there's a big difference between call logs and records and what you see with the gap is the call

logs and diaries are blank for a significant amount of time. i really don't care if it was an accident, cover up or somewhere in between. what i care about is there other data that shows communications in and out of the white house at that time and the committee said there was. whether you're looking at giuliani's calls, the calls he had to senators, those were times where the call logs identify some of those calls. so i would think the american public could make an educated guess that it's possible there could be other communications that the committee has not identified for the public yet. again, that's something the public needs to look forward to see what comes out of that analysis. >> when you were still working on the committee, were you aware of this problem with the data from the secret service? congresswoman zoe lofgren said the ig knew back in february that the texts had been purged

from around january 5th and 6th, but the committee didn't know until recently. as somebody who had eyes and hands on the data, were there holes you were aware of and do you have a theory on why that is? >> they were holes i was aware of. my guess is based on what the committee gave to our teams and what they really trusted me to do, and they would have told me about those text messages if they had known about it at that point. i do want to say this. there seems to be a lot of experts on twitter who seem to know how text messaging works and how to get them. but i want to say this right now. i know a little bit. i have a bit of technology background. i might be old, right, but i'm still okay. i can still swing a baseball bat and i think what people realize now is somebody coming from a technology background like i am, i think you can say at an over 70% clip, there's really no text messages to get.

i know homeland security individuals that text with the secret service, but they don't text. they use encrypted apps. they use signals. this is a low tech thing. so if you're not following the coms or processes identified in your standard operating procedure, there's sometimes no texts to get and it's easier to guard your data on a specific device than people think. so if they're using personal phones or government phones or not following protocols, nobody would know anyway. i just don't want individuals to think you know, that automatically the secret service is culpable for that because it could be that in their sops that they have to use encrypted chats or wipe their phones. we don't know. what's bothersome is that they retained attorneys and what's bothersome is that this looks really bad and i think that right now, it's time for depositions. it's not time for a head herring of sort of a tech rabbit hole.

i think you bring them in and talk to them about whether they were following their own sops or using accredited coms. after that, then you can start looking to some of the technical solutions you might have at your finger tens to see if they're telling the truth. >> neil, as denver said and as zoe lofgren said on the show 24 hours ago, they have retained private counsel. that includes tony ornato, mr. engel, donald trump's lead agent, and the driver of the vehicle that donald trump got into after his rally on the ellipse where the altercation took place when he wanted to go to the capitol and be with his armed supporters. whose mission statement was to hang mike pence. what do you make of the state of the still growing secret service scandal? >> well, i mean, nicolle, it's donald trump keeping the one promise he's been able to keep, which is he does create some jobs. it just happens to be for private lawyers like myself representing people from his

administration. so you know, i think it's flabber gasting quite honestly that the secret service officials have now retained private counsel. this is not something i'd ever seen during my time in government. the whole thing stinks to high heaven. as denver said, there's this gap of seven hours on the phone records in general at the white house. now we also learned there's a gap in the secret service records because they destroyed all this evidence after they were requested to preserve it and to turn it over. so there's a lot going on here and i suspect we're going to learn a lot more and it's not going to be good. >> neal, does it matter who's paying for their private counsel? >> no, i don't think it matters. it's just probably something is untoward. the justice department generally will represent any federal government employee who's done anything as part of their official duties. the reason why you might want to switch to a private counsel or

if there's something you feel like you can't tell your justice department lawyer and i suspect there's probably some of that going on here. >> neal, i want to get both of you on the record on steve bannon's unsurprising but still in the state of the story of the trump presidency, guilty conviction for defying his congressional subpoena. he's someone who "new york times" reporter, jeremy peters, doesn't even believe in the lies of election fraud, but he's heading to jail to defy a subpoena. why? >> well, you know, this was a, i know "the new york times" described it as a low level process crime. i don't think that's right. i think this is really serious. congress made solemn requests to bannon and said we know you have relative information to the january 6th committee. they isolated for example the meeting at the willard hotel on january 5th. they isolated i think 17

different sets of documents that steve bannon had. he turned none of that over and you know, in our democracy, when congress asks for something, you've got to have a really good reason to not turn it over and the good reason can't be i'm afraid to tell the truth or donald trump will get mad at me or things like that. describe that at trial, it went nowhere. this trial lasted just about as long as steve bannon's entire career in the white house. like a couple of minutes, basically. and he's found guilty. each count of contempt, and there are two different ones and he was convicted on both, carries a 12-month jail time. he's looking at as much as 24 months, which means he'll finally get the one that he's always wanted. a captive audience that just happens to be in jail. >> we're not even sure they'll be captive. i've seen some of those press conferences. i want to show you how he was

entered into evidence yesterday as evidence of a premeditated conspiracy, and knowledge that trump was going to lose and they all knew it. >> at one point in 2016 when he was first running for office, donald trump said this. i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters. that quote came to mind last week when audio from trump adviser, steve bannon, surfaced. from october 31st, 2020, just a few days before the presidential election. let's listen. e presidential >> and so they're going to have a natural disadvantage and trump's not taking advantage. so you wake up wednesday

morning, it's going to be a fire storm. also if trump is losing by 10:00 or 11:00 at night, it's going to be even crazier. if biden's winning, trump is going to do some crazy [ bleep ]. >> it's the plan all along, neal. what's the significance of that? >> it's huge. it's premeditation. it's not a requirement, nicolle, to show a crime. only a formal requirement for first degree murder, but what it does is it really exploded the idea that this is either some accident or some you know, just inaction on january 6th that just happened to be rather bannon is saying the quiet part out loud. any investigator would want to know when you said that, steve bannon, had you already talked to trump about this? how did you know that? that's exactly the kind of stuff that he's now being convicted of today for not going and telling

congress and the american people. the thing stinks to high heaven. it's absolutely right that steve bannon goes to jail for this, but i hope as he looks in his jail cell and into his heart, he realizes he's got to come clean to the american people and tell us what happened. when did donald trump talk to him about this, what was going on there. and fill in these missing gaps of which there are so many because donald trump is behaving again like a mob boss. trying to destroy evidence, intimidate witnesses, and the like. >> neal, i know you crammed us in between other obligations. thank you so much. denver, i want to follow up with you on this evidence. bannon saying the quiet part is one point. another, they were giant leakers. there were things we didn't tell

trump because he couldn't keep a secret. going up the levels of serious to classified information. i mean, what is the significance of an october public statement about what the plan was for election day and beyond? >> it's pretty incredible. we first got the meadows text, really from early november through january, but we had open source intelligence. there's some pretty savvy individuals out there and i was part of the research institute. so we saw this well before november. the stop the steal type of push or making sure that if there was election deniers in place. but you talk about going back to 2016, that's when roger stone really started to -- you're talking about mike flynn, alex jones, steve bannon. roger stone. which is a personal i like to dig in deeper to at some point when i can.

but when you're seeing what they're saying or what they did before november 3rd, this is something they had been planning for some time. that's why when you look at the people around trump, you look at these individuals, the documents and day that we have, that's why liz can pronounce with such confidence what she's saying on that podium. talking about trump saying in 2016, he could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue, you've had his grifters and confidants rolling around him like roger stone. also, you've got to look at the part of bannon. this is his business plan. how he makes money. he's going to thump his chest. going to say stupid things like he did today where the committee was afraid to go down and testify and this coward wouldn't even come and talk to the committee and wouldn't testify at his own trial. it's like he brought a pole to an ax fight. when they pump their chest up, it's part of their business plan, but i think he's scared s-less. didn't want to say a bad word,

but i think he's afraid because you know, an orange jump suit, a shirt change you only get to do once. he's looking at more criminal charges. more issues. also sadly, this is part of his business plan and now he can say he's a political prisoner to the maga verse and the other grifters that surround him. >> do you have roger stone, does the committee have roger stone's phone records? they produced as evidence two phone calls to rudy giuliani and it seems like filling in the missing not call logs, but phone call records is going the other direction. if they don't have trump, they recreated it from rudy's end. have they recreated it from roger stone's end? >> publicly, he's fighting a cdr. i don't know if they received those or not at this point. so i probably couldn't tell you anyway, but i actually don't

know if they have since that time. but a lot of people who know how to do tellny analysis, i'm sure the committee is all over that. >> just tell our viewers what cdr is. >> you're talking about the actual phone records of those, i'm sorry, nicolle. we talked about this. but the actual phone records and the data. that really represents those phone calls. >> and interesting historical echo. those call records. the actual call data is what the mueller obstruction of justice investigators were pursuing into the final seconds through don mcgwan. so one end or the other as you're saying. always riveting. sorry. >> i was just going to say for your viewers, just look at the people fighting their call detail records and that should tell you a lot of what you need to know. >> line up with a lot of the people who have taken the fifth and received pardons.

so lots of smoke. denver, thank you so much for starting us off. great to see you today. >> thanks. when we come back, our full panel will join us after where the committee goes from here after last night's blockbuster hearing and whether the ball is now squarely in merrick garland's court. plus, nothing epitomizes the takedown quite like this video played of senator josh hawley running from the mob he helped incite with his own raised fist. we'll be back after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ised fist. we'll be back after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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i sure as hell hope that merrick garland has an open criminal investigation into donald trump. with what they've laid out there, with all the information that is publicly available as well because your earlier guest said this was just all done in public. like, no one needs to wait for some formality from our committee to tap that ball in motion. >> merrick garland, if you're listening, a member of the 1/6 select committee saying don't bother waiting for a criminal referral from us because when it comes to the president's criminal conduct, he did it out in the public. it is a pattern. joining us now, katie benner, "new york times" justice reporter, also msnbc contributor. charlie sykes is here, msnbc contributor and the editor at large of the bull work. ben rhodes is back. former obama deputy national security adviser, also an msnbc political contributor. and a.b. stoddard is here. katie, on this question of how

difficult it is to prove the criminal acts and intent, the committee's response to that seems to be challenge accepted. >> well, i think the committee's response is challenge accepted indeed, but keep in mind their committee works differently from a trial. nobody has cross examined their witnesses. nobody has produced exculpatory evidence. nobody has produced new evidence and nobody questions the central premise of the committee's mission, which is something federal prosecutors would all face should they enter a court of law including any investigation that could lead to charges against the former president. that's one of the reasons the committee can be pretty confident in their ability to show donald trump has done something wrong but what i think we know that is going on inside of the justice department is they're not only watching hearings closely, but they're talking about the hearings, talking about the evidence being entered into public view. we know they have been alarmed by some testimony and we know they themselves are reconsidering whether or not

resources should be brought to bear to broaden the investigation even beyond the two things they are looking at, which is the use of a fake slate of electors to try to upend the election, the use of officials inside the justice department to undo the election, and the rally itself. >> i want to show you some evidence the committee showcased yesterday. this is sergeant mark robinson, d.c. police officer who was assigned to trump's motorcade on the day of the deadly insurrection. >> at the end of the speech, what was the plan supposed to be? >> so at the end of the speech, we do know that while inside the limo, president was still adamant about going to the capitol. that's been relayed to me by the ts agent. so we did depart the ellipse and we responded back to the white house, however, we, the

motorcade was placed on stand by. so we were told to stand by on the west until they confirmed whether or not the president was going to go to the capitol. and so i may have made it -- i would just estimate maybe 45 minutes to an hour. waiting for secret service to make that decision. >> charlie, west exec is the driveway between the west wing of the white house and the oeob, which is where a lot of the offices are. and a motorcade sate there waiting for donald trump who thought he could go in there and convince him he was going back into the motorcade and up to the united states capitol. what is your sense of how much the committee turned this narrative that for three hours he did nothing? he did a whole lot of things. he kept photographers out of the room. he watched television.

he called senators and as denver just said, the data mining process is a very active part of this investigation. >> well, yes. and importantly, i mean, given what we've learned, it would be interesting to see these secret service text messages. the secret service agents who were around mike pence as well as those in that detail. look, that testimony you just played does go some way to corroborate what cassidy hutchinson had said, however, keep in mind this is still here say evidence, but i don't think there's any doubt that any fair minded viewer what the former president intended to do. think about this. the president of the united states leading tens of thousands of protesters. many of them angry and armed. up to the capitol. as bad as january 6th was, donald trump's plan was even more extreme and i think that's what we need to keep in mind. all of the close calls we had.

that the president of the united states actually wanted to march up to the capitol. maybe go into congress himself. no one would have stopped him. and i think we're getting a complete picture of that. this is another indication of the work that the committee and justice department need to do to get the people who have a firsthand evidence on the record and under oath. >> yeah, a.b., i understand that the parameters of a congressional investigation, particularly its public phase, are different than the justice department, but a firsthand witness is a firsthand witness. the entire pretext for exonerating donald trump from what even republicans acknowledge was clear abuse of power, no firsthand witnesses. all this committee has produced are firsthand witnesses to donald trump's criminal, corrupt conduct. here's liz cheney explaining how her witnesses would do under cross-examination and further

scrutiny. >> the case against donald trump in these hearings is not made by witnesses who were his political enemies. it is instead a series of confessions by donald trump's own appointees. his own friends, his own campaign officials. people who worked for him for years and his own family. they have come forward and they have told the american people the truth. and for those of you who seem to think the evidence would be different if republican leader mccarthy had not withdrawn his nominees from this committee, let me ask you this. do you really think bill barr is such a delicate flower that he would wilt under cross-examination? pat cipollone, eric hirshman, rosen? of course they aren't. >> i did not have bill barr as a delicate flower as anything i would ever hear, but there you have it. >> i love the way liz cheney's

statements are written. she's quite a writer. quite a lawyer and a very strategic thinker. you can see the design of the hearings and her remarks. i'm glad she made this point last night. i'm not a lawyer. from here, it looks like you know, former president trump will try to announce another presidential run very soon. likely in september, in order to outrun merrick garland, and intimidate him because once he believes he is an official candidate, everything the justice department could do or would do to him would like political. merrick garland cannot wrap things up by september no matter what the scope of what he's looking at. but it really hit me, nicolle, this morning, that this is just different. seeing what we have seen and heard from all these hearings. particularly last night. it's just different that republicans are still somewhere

hiding today, pretending they don't have to answer these questions. it is ludicrous that swing voters will take them seriously if they do not have a response to this. so we don't know what's happening in the department of justice, but in the court of public opinion, these witnesses are compelling. they didn't come forward and they should have and shame on them for keeping these secrets, but now they have made these confessions and these stories are real from people who were at the trump administration loyal to the end. not people who came in and left disappointed at the end of 2017. this is as credible a roster of people making these confessions in detail as these people could imagine and i cannot believe that republicans can sustain silence until november 8th about what we have learned no matter what is going on behind closed doors with regard to

investigation and prosecution. >> i mean, ben, a.b. makes such a good point. this is the ride or die crowd. the people in the end are in some ways, the most loyal. they stay until the end while others go out and look for new jobs or they leave to spend more time with their family. these are the die hards. the people who were there until january 6th, 2021. i want to show you what one of those die hards, someone who i remember being at the podium after trump lost the election, really broadcasting to the world trump's election lies. she turned into a witness for the 1/6 committee. here's what her deputy said about her disputes or the reason she had such a hard time rallying support for getting the president to stop the insurrection. they didn't want to hand the media away. >> a conversation started in the press office after the president sent out those two tweets that i

deemed were insufficient and a colleague suggested that the president shouldn't condemn the violence because they thought it would be quote, handing a win to the media. if you were to condemn his supporters. and i disagreed. i thought that we should condemn the violence and condemn it unequivocally and motioned up at the tv and i said, do you think it looks like we're f-ing winning because i don't think it does. i again reiterated that i thought the president needs to condemn the violence because it didn't matter if it was coming from the left or the right. that you should condemn violence 100% of the time. >> in a normal white house, there would be a lot of people that saw it the way she did, but there was not a normal white house, ben. >> no, this is a deep, deep conspiracy theory laden bunker mentality they have in this white house. and it kind of complete absence of any consideration of a broader public good beyond

donald trump's grievances or donald trump's political interests. and what's interesting is that these people like you said who stayed until the bitter end. i did that myself in the white house. the fact that it broke them, i mean tells you that some people, not all of them, some people reached a breaking point and i think a really important thing is that the most important witnesses, i think people need to understand. these are the kind och people that are the backbone of any white house operation. when you're talking about deputy white house press secretary. talking about someone like cassidy hutchinson who works for the chief of staff. talking about people in the counsel's office. these are the kinds of people that see all the paper. that know the movements of the president. that know the chatter around the white house. and there were enough of those people willing to testify, compelled to testify frankly, and piece together a picture that is more damning than self-serving leaks that might come out in books.

even though there are still profound gaps because we know for every one of those people who did testify, there's a handful of people who really know the absolute darkest reality of what happened who we still have not heard from. that's an important reason why this investigation isn't over yet and why this investigation has led us to things like the historic corruption of the secret service embodied in the delusion of those text messages that we have a right to know what they said. >> to ben's point, we have to sneak in a break, but on the other side, we're going to talk about the committee's, call it, we're going to need a bigger boat moment to deal with all the evidence pouring in. liz cheney described it as a dam breaking scenario. don't go anywhere. described ity that's easier to control...

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we have more information and lots of questions about the secret service and deleted text messages. we have new witnesses who have direct observations on that day who provided us additional things we need to follow up. then there's witnesses who have come in before. knowing what we know know, we probably need to go back and call those people again because we have a better understanding of the circumstances so we can go back and ask more pointed questions. >> last night's hearing was akin to at best, pulling back the

curtain. more appropriately perhaps flipping over the slimy rock by the edge of the swamp. the committee doing an extraordinary job cutting through some of the bs we've heard from republicans. basically every day since the attack by showcasing what the lawmakers felt, what they said, what they did. right there in the moment of the attack on the ground in realtime. we just heard the concern from leaders mccarthy and mcconnell in those moments. at least they weren't caught on camera fleeing in terror after raising their fist like josh hawley who decided and we're glad he didn't get hurt. we're glad he decided to run away from the mob he helped incite. as funny as that video is to watch over and over again, especially with some of the sound tracks that have been put to it, it's important to remember the way remembers would return to the senate chamber.

he was so eager to escape, and vote to overturn the election. after nearly three hours of testimony about the violence inflicted by trump supporters including testimony about the vice president's security detail, calling family members to say good-bye maybe for the last time, the threats facing law enforcement continue. take what happened last night, michael fanone as he left the hearing, "the washington post," quote, a woman is seen asking why he was at the capitol on january 6th and questioning his credentials as she points two phone cameras at him. he was not a capitol police officer. he responded to a city wide emergency. he was pummelled unconscious with fists and poles and repeatedly stunned with a taser on his neck. he suffered a heart attack during the riot. yesterday, he testified in a d.c. court about the injuries he received that day saying this, quote, i was dragged from the front, pulled into the crowd and

violently beaten and electrocuted. i was dragged to the police line by demonstrators who intervened. it is likely without the intervention, i would have lost my life. it is important to always come back to the officials from the hearing, that the committee showcased almost a year ago. but their refrain is now deeply consistent with liz cheney and adam kinzinger's and that is do where he live in a country where the rule of law applies to everyone or not? how do their statements, their statements as victims, bounce around the justice department? >> you know, i think that people find the testimonials by witnesses in the first hearing what has happened extremely compelling. they prosecuted many people for

attacking the police that day. this is something they take incredibly seriously. and the attacked on the police resonate with some of the bigger comments made in the hearing yesterday where former officials said one at another point-blank that former president trump did not believe in defending and protecting the constitution. he did not believe in defending and protecting law enforcement officers. so this is a really interesting question and it goes to the clips you played of republicans earlier lamenting what trump had done, but then no longer wanting to talk about him. it's sort of like, it reminds me of 2016 when republicans' feet were held to the fire again and again, do you support donald trump as candidate. they didn't really want to answer the question because he seemed like such an inappropriate and strange candidate. they eventually fell in line. it's like they're being asked to do this again and now they know the result of a donald trump presidency and they know it would be somebody who wouldn't want to defend and protect the constitution and law enforcement officers. so you find that kind of silence more striking this time around.

>> the enabling is happening today. today, right now. that hearing gave republicans if they wanted to plenty to hang their hats on if they were done. if they wanted to do what graham did for about 45 minutes and say it was a fun ride, but it's over. nobody did that. mitch mcconnell featured prominently. he took to the floor of the senate and basically referred him for criminal prosecution and i believe the committee played some of that last night. it is the criminal referral that essentially the 1/6 committee is bookending here with that they're saying they don't need to do at this point. talk about the stakes of doing nothing to hold trump accountable? >> well, it is extraordinary how many off ramps they have ignored but i guess muscle memory now that kicks in that no matter how bad it is, how egregious it is,

they go along. like 2016, they're waiting for somebody else to solve this for them. that somebody else is going to stop him. maybe a meteor will hyb somethi with a big mac, but again, you know, you are seeing that we are being told you know over and over and over again not just how bad it was, but how bad it will be in the future. because donald trump, every single day, you know, will remind us how, i'm sorry, deranged his view of the election is and we're learning more and more about what a return to the white house would mean. putting donald trump back in the oval office with access to nuclear codes, control of the department of justice, the irs, the fbi, the cia. so it does feel like 2016 but

like times 100. and i think it would be naive to think the republican party would draw the line. stay silent and maybe we'll win the majority and things will be okay or we'll speak out and be annihilated, be defeated like liz cheney is about to be, but at some point, they have to ask what's the point. what's the purpose? how do you want to be remembered? i'm not sure they're asking themselves that question anymore. >> all right. we'll adjust our sneakers so we can run as fast as josh hawley does. we'll deal with that part of last night's testimony on the other side of a break with ben and a.b. don't go anywhere. and a.b. don't go anywhere.

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>> it was, i thought it would get easier after two years of this but it is getting harder and harder as we learn new things that are coming out. >> i cannot comprehend him not doing a thing to stop that. he knew what was going on. we saw the testimony minutes after his little rally. >> that is a family of fallen police officer brian -- talking

all our about the end of the day , dereliction of duty. there were real victims of people who lost their lives and loved ones which makes the conduct of josh hawley reprehensible and worthy of our time. i can figure that out with first-class -- he tweeted he lit the fuse and ran away from the explosion and this is the video seen around the world by now. josh hawley with his fist raised while he was within the safety and security of the perimeter and then once the very people he incited with that raised fist while he was excited by the law enforcement officers, officer -- people that got past brian sicknick, the picture is him running behind the police line. they were there to engage in medieval hand to hand combat while he flees.

there it is again. we can talk about the disgrace of the dishonor of the republicans but when it is in your face it is stop funny and sick and scary. >> it is and i am amazed because i still believe these republican officeholders, they do laugh at their voters. they take them for suckers and they think they won't be found out and they won't be discovered and it is a theme that they play and it is truly grotesque. what is so frightening is i don't know if donald trump -- in that dining room could comprehend what was going on on the ground and how dangerous it could have been and what a massacre it could have been if the capital police who were being mutilated and used their guns. i truly think he is so unwell that i don't know what he can

comprehend beyond the end of his nose but josh -- josh hawley performative insurrectionists who started this very effort -- joe biden's win in the senate before january 6 absolutely do know. they know they are protected every day by these men and now ignore them in the hallways and cannot look at them. they don't respect the honor of the people who fought so bravely and were injured and lives that a been ruined and those who lost their lives. it is really a sickness, people heckling the officer outside the capital and i find it hard to digest. it speaks to the fact that they are playing a game and playing a role and they don't really back the blue. >> and then i guess my question is how do you get the truth bomb through to the whole country about what hypocrites republicans are on this question

and support for the law enforcement officials who protect them. >> i think that was a good start last night. they did not have to show that video of josh hawley but what the committee recognizes is they have an audience who is -- legal question justice department about whether to bring charges against trump and have the audience of the american people and people like josh hawley, make no mistake, he may not have the same legal culpability of trump but he is morally and politically responsible for what happened on january 6. not just because he was the one who is going to go forward with the decertification of the election and the legitimization of trump's conspiracy theories, but because he is a perfect encapsulation of the mindset in the publican party that says it is okay to burn it all down so long as i survive. i think the case that needs to be made is time and again the people that are left holding the bag are the very people that the josh

hawley's of this world are appealing to so they will blow a bunch of smoke about law enforcement on the campaign trail and then they will literally turn their back and run when the actions that they incited leave those officers to be put in fatal danger. they will incite a mob as it suits their political purposes, but when that bob shows up in the capital they are the ones who are going to face justice, not people like josh hawley and i think it is really important that the committee, the democratic party, people outside of the democratic party who care about democracy do not remove the spotlight from people like january 6. they are tending to put it all on trump. here's trump and his crating meetings and the crazy characters that showed up on december whatever and shouting, none of that is possible without the josh hawley's of this world who enabled us at every step of the way and who know that a second trump presidency or trump -like presidency will not

end well. because they know how to do this better now. so we have a window of opportunity in this country to get rid of these people who are arsonists in our democracy but only if enough of us care about it. >> katie brenner, charlie sykes, thank you so much for spending the hour with us. we are grateful. a quick break for us. we will be right back. back.

>> thank you so much for letting us into your homes during this extraordinary time. we are grateful to be -- starts right now. happy friday. >> happy friday. welcome to the beat. we are reporting this breaking news in the trial of steve bannon. trump white house veteran steve bannon was found guilty today on both counts. the first trump aid kit convicted in connection to the