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selfishness or to stay in power. >> president trump did not fail to act during the 187 minutes between the lips and telling the mob to go home, he chose not to act. >> it included gripping new interviews detailing just how scared secret service agents protecting vice president mike pence were about the situation on capitol hill on january 6th. watch this. >> it was disturbing, i don't like talking about it. there were calls to say goodbye to family members. he was getting -- for whatever reason it was on the ground. the vp detail it was about to get very ugly. >> and details about what trump refused to do on that day and the day after, and beyond that. >> this election is now over. congress is -- has certified the results.

i don't want to say the election is over, i just want to say congress has certified the results, without saying the election is over, okay? >> after eight hearings, a wealth of evidence mounting against the former president, and a promise of more to come. >> as we made clear throughout these hearings, our investigation goes forward. we continue to receive information every day. we continue to hear from witnesses. we were -- we will reconvene in september to continue laying out our findings to the american people. >> ahead this hour, look at the key questions so many are asking out of all of this. is it finally enough for the department of justice to charge donald trump with a crime? >> but i want to begin this hour with thursday's primetime hearing which focused on those 187 minutes. that is the amount of time the former president spent glued to his television, watching the

events on hold at the capitol, and refusing multiple increasingly frantic efforts by his staff, his family, members of his own party, and others to do something. to stop at all. >> your advice was -- and it took over two hours, when their subsequent statements made, tweets put forward that interview was insufficient. did you continue, mr. cipollone, up until -- to push for a stronger statement? >> yes. >> we are joined in that effort by ivanka trump? >> yes. >>? mark meadows? >>. yes >> >> rather than help stop -- stop it the president made it worse. the infinite -- the incidentthe incident --

as rioters were entering the building, the secret service held vice presidents pant for 13 minutes, as they worked to clear a safe path to a secure location. now look to -- listen to some of that radio traffic, as the protesters got just feet away from where the vice president was holding. >> hold, we need to move now. if we lose any more time we may lose the ability to leave. so we're going to leave, we need to do it now. they've gained access to the second floor and i've got public about five feet from me below. okay, copy. they're on the second floor. moving in now. you may want to consider getting out and leaving now, copy? we've encountered the people once we make our way.

>> repeat? >> counter any individuals that we make our way to -- [bleep] >> their six officers between us and the people that are five feet away. go ahead. we have a shot, we have smoke downstairs, stand by unknown smoke downstairs. by the protesters? >> is that rope compromised? we have the [bleep] is secure. however we will bypass some protesters that are being contained. there is smoke. unknown, kind of smoke it is. copy? >> clear, we're coming out now. all right, make away. >> all right, so the fears from veterans, secret service agents, went beyond just the vice president's safety. >> the members of the vp detail at this time we're starting to fear for their own lives. there is a lot of yelling, each

of a lot a very personal calls over the radio, so, it is disturbing, i don't like talking about it. there were calls to say goodbye to family members and so forth. it was getting, for whatever reason it was on the ground, the vp detail thought there was going to get very ugly. >> did you hear that over the radio? what was the response by the secret service agents over there? >> everybody kept saying you know, at that point-y -- i think there were discussions that were coming, again it was just chaos. >> so the efforts to get trump to do more continued, but he refused to ask the mob to leave. finally sending this message to respect the capitol police who

were at that point fully under attack. >> miss matthews, miss mac community -- said she came right back to the press office about this particular tweet. where did she tell you about what happened in the standing room? >> when she got back, she told me that a tweet had been sent out. and i told her that i thought the tweet did not go far enough. and there needed to be a call to action and he needed to condemn the violence. we are in a room full of people, but people weren't paying attention, and so she looked directly at me, and in a hush tone, shared with me that the president did not want to include any sort of mention of peace in that tweet. it took some convincing on their part, those who were in the room, and she said there was a back and forth, going over different phases to find something that he was comfortable with. it wasn't until ivanka trump suggested the phrase, stay peaceful, that he finally agreed to include it.

>> so those inside the capitol, they got the message loud and clear. the former president was not suggesting that they stop. >> trump just tweeted, please support our capitol police. they are on our side. do not harm them. >> that's saying a lot about what he didn't say. he didn't say not to do anything to the congressman. >> he did not ask them to stand down, he just said stand by the capitol police. they're on our side. they're good people. >> so beyond these tweets that we've been talking about, trump was doing none of the things you expect from a commander of chief, watching the capital building under siege. >> are you aware of any phone call by the president of the united states to the secretary of defense that day? >> not that i'm aware of, no. are you aware of any phone call by the president of the united states to the attorney general

of the united states that day? >> now. >> are you aware of any phone call by the president of the united states to the secretary of homeland security that? >> i'm not aware of that, no. >> did you ever get the vice president, or the president asked for national guard? >> no. >> did you ever hear the president asked for law and forceful response? >> no. >> so if president trump wasn't calling on law enforcement or military leaders, what did president trump spend his time doing that afternoon? he settled into the dining room. he was calling senators to encourage them to delay or object to the certification. he was kayleigh mcenany, his press secretary to explain. >> that says back there, and he wants a list of senators -- he's calling them one by one. do you know which ones he called? >> to the best of my recollection, no. >> so trump reaching out to the

senators who supported his efforts to overturn the election, urging them to stick with the plan. to contest the valid electoral count. it was only after the former vice presidents efforts to get the national guard to the capitol, we're -- at 4:17 the president issued the video asking his supporters to leave, telling them he loved them, and they were special, as well. as that was happening, congressional leaders moved forward to make sure the president and those rioters did not to get get to what they wanted. >> other leaders honored their oaths and acted to clear the capital and resume the joint session. for instance, here and never before seen photos and videos of congressional leaders in action during the attack. the video is a portion of the call they had at approximately 4:45, with acting secretary of defense, chris miller. >> we're not gonna let these people keep us from finishing

our business. we need you to get the building cleared, so we go back insist session and finish out the business as soon as possible. >> mister secretary, it's senator schumer. some people here in the capital police believed it would take us several days to secure the building. do you agree with that analysis? >> i'm not on the ground i do not agree with that analysis. >> so it is the earliest then that we could safely resume our proceedings in the senate and house chambers? the earliest we can safely resume? >> here's my assessment, i prefer to be on the ground which i personally would prefer to be right now, i would say the best case we're looking at 4 to 5 hours. >> so despite the best efforts of trump, they went ahead with the count, officially certified

president joe biden's win just before 4 am on january 7th. >> our special coverage is continuing throughout the hour ahead. stick with me, if you do, what we've learned from all the evidence released thus far, plus this. >> for 187 minutes on january 6th, this man of unbridled destructive energy could not be moved. >> the big question is the decision by the former president to not act proof of criminality? former -- miles taylor, are going to weigh in, we'll be right back. back. back. leaving clothes so soft, wrinkles don't want to stick around. make mornings smoother with downy wrinkle guard fabric softener. so, you're 45.

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and losing weight. go to golo.com and see how golo can change your life. how quickly could the president that's g-o-l-o.com. have gotten on camera in the press briefing room to deliver a statement to the nation? >> so as you outlined, it would take probably less than 60 seconds from the oval office dining room, over to the press briefing room. and for folks that might not know the briefing room is the room that you see the white house press secretary do briefings from, with a podium, and the blue to black drop -- backdrop, and there's a camera that's on at all times. if the president had wanted to make a statement and address the american people, he could have been on camera almost instantly. and conversely, the white house press corps has offices that

are located directly behind the briefing room. so if he had wanted to make an address from the oak oval office, we could've assembled the white house press corps probably in a matter of minutes. >> so, instead of that, though, as the committee laid out, the former president not only spent those 187 minutes watching the riot unfold, on fox news, but ignored these pleads, repeated pleas, from top aides to call his supporters off. and even attempted to call gop senators to convince them to delay the vote count. there's a hearing presenting bombshell testimony from white house counsel pat some cipollone, smart questioning seem to imply, what we know already, the president was the only one at the white house who did not want to call off the rioters. the only one. i want to play a portion of this for. you look >> who on the staff did not want to have people leave the capitol?

>> on the staff? >> in the white house? i can't think of anybody. you know, on that day, who didn't want people to get out of the capital once the violent started, no. i mean -- >> would about the president? >> she said the staff. so i answered. >> no, i said in the white house. >> oh i'm sorry, i apologize. i thought you said, who else on the staff. ayo >> i don't -- i can't reveal communications. but obviously, i think, you know.

up a >> yeah. up a >> quite a moment with that -- i want to bring in miles taylor, former dhs creek chief of staff -- all right guys thanks for joining us appreciate. let me start with you. we appreciate you joining us on this saturday afternoon. talk to me first about that moment, right, it seemed as if they skirted him around the executive privilege issue, there, with pat cipollone, asking him that question, who in a way gave the answer, really, without answering it, with those long positives, of course, the distinction between staff and the president, and the consultations with his own attorney. what did you make of that moment? >> you know it wasn't all that difficult to read between the lines, of pet cipollone's

testimony, yasmin. he said basically everyone on staff, everyone in the white house was of one position. will you stop the attack on the capital? well how about the president? you could see he wanted to answer the question. no one will accuse passive polonium acting heroically. the fact that he invoke privilege, which, frankly i don't think he had to because there is a crime fraud exception to all of the privileges in essence. but he was doing the hyper caution thing -- and he declined to answer. but he did answer, as you said. everybody at the white house wanted to stop the attack on the capitol, except donald trump. donald trump was not acting as the leader of the country. he was acting as the leader of the coup for those hundred and 87 minutes. >> miles taylor, want to read for you a quote from the washington post editorial bill. mr. trump had the power to start wet occurred january six,

and he had the power to stop at having exercise the farmer, he withheld the letter. talk about the implications of the former presidents in action during that 187 minutes. >> well from a national security standpoint, it's extraordinary. i went into government in the wake of 9/11 to prevent another 9/11 from happening again. a lot of people wanted to with me at the time, that was the express purpose to do it. this was the greatest attack on the heart of our democracy, greatest terrorist attack since that day. instead of responding, we had the president of the united states sit idle, and in many ways, attempt to foment further violence. he had in the beginning -- i want to point to one thing that's interesting about sarah matthews testimony. when they talk about the locations inside the white house. i wanna take you inside the white house, because there's a misperception that the situation room is the most secure place for the president to go, and the hardest place to

reach. it's not true, a lot of us had badges and the ability to swipe into the white house situation room. there's one place where the president goes if you really doesn't want to be disturbed. that's the little tiny dining room, just off of the oval office. why is that? because when staff wants to go see the president, first they have to go to the utter room, and the inner sanctum is the oval office itself. then there's another door to go to that tiny room. it was very telling that donald trump was in that dining room. it's the place that presidents for a long time had gone to escape their staff, escape the tension. it is telling us before this began, he placed himself there, and not somewhere where he was reachable. and even more revealing with the fact that his aides did indeed -- and sarah matthews, attempt to get the president to call off the rioters. but because of where they position himself, they found it difficult to get to the commander-in-chief. it's not so much what he said, it's wet he didn't do, and

where he was. >> and in a way trying to isolate himself from anyone to weigh in on wet he should do, so you completely see the whole thing play out. let's ask you the million dollar question that we're gonna talk to you about later on in the hour. any criminality that could come from this inaction -- ? >> so, yasmin, here's how i'll put. it this is more evidence of donald trump's crimes. the reason i put it that way is, because you and i have been playing this parlor game for years. we learn something about donald trump's conduct, and then we spent time discussing whether it was criminal or not. but we need to recall is that a federal judge in california, david carter, has already ruled, by preponderance of evidence, let's talk about that for ten seconds, by prop preponderance of evidence that donald trump with john eastman committed to federal offenses, obstructing a

proceeding, the certification of joe biden's win, and a conspiracy to defraud or commit offenses against the united states. a three 71 conspiracy. he made those findings by a preponderance of evidence. it's an important legal standard. it's 51% of the evidence. more likely than not. we have to realize that to arrest and indict someone, or only required to meet the burden of a preponderance of evidence -- i'm sorry probable cause, well below a preponderance of the evidence. i would say this is more evidence of criminality, because it feeds into what was that ongoing conspiracy to defraud or commit offenses against the united states. we have to hope, some point soon, the department of justice will move from the parlor into the courtroom, and begin to hold him accountable for these crimes. >> all right, so we're actually gonna talk more about this later on, in the hour, because

as we wrap up this summer series of testimony, i think a lot of americans are wondering if in fact the former president is actually going to be held accountable. will the doj do? and what's going into their decision-making? so a leave it there glenn and miles, thank you for now. i'll see more in about 30 minutes or so. coming up, everybody, we have some revealing outtakes from the former presidents video messages to his supporters. >> this election is now over. congress has certified the results. i don't to say the elections older -- over. >> i'm gonna speak with filmmaker alex holder who has testified before the committee after spending weeks up to an after january 6th. we'll be right back. a after january 6th.

we'll be right back.

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last night as he went into the residence. as he was gathering his things in the dining room to leave, president trump reflected on the day's events with the white house employee. this was the same employee who met president trump in the oval office after he returned from the ellipse. president trump said nothing to the employee about the attack. he said only quote mike pence let me down. >> mike pence let me down. that was the former presidents one take away from one of the worst states ever for american democracy. welcome back everybody to the special look at the january 6th hearings. i'm yasmin vesuviana. thank you for joining. us -- never before seen outtakes or former president trump, at times angry, frustrated, taping that video message on january six, finally calling on his mob to get home. and one day after the capitol

attack, a very telling look, former president working on it and address to the nation. >> whenever you're ready sir. >> i would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack yesterday, and to those who broke the law you will pay. you do not represent our movement. you do not represent our country. and if you broke the law, you can't say that. and i already said you will pay. demonstrators who infiltrated the capitol have defied, defiled right, i can see it very well. i'm gonna do. this let's go. this is that this election is now over. congress has certified the results. i don't say the election is over. i just want to say congress has certified the results without saying the election is over,

okay? >> but congress has certify, now congress a certified -- >> let me see. >> let's bring in someone who knows quite a bit about the former presidents demeanor on the days leading up to january 6th and after as well, filmmaker alex holder, spending weeks filming the former presidents inner circle for his documentary unprecedented which premier this month. -- thanks so much for joining us alex. by the way, incredible documentary. thank you for sharing it with us. i watched it from beginning to end. it was fascinating all of it. talk to me about that moment. i know you were not there what was being filmed, but when you saw that footage having spent so much time with him, and the family around him, leading up

to an after january six, what did you make of? it wouldn't you think of it? >> it was fascinating. the other day the best way to understanding donald trump is by seeing those moments through candid few seconds here and there, that's really what you get into his character. and understanding he really is. he was making the podium. or him trying to remove certain words and caring about the stagecraft and how it looks and everything. that's why i saw. that's what i witnessed. that's what you see here as well. it's a fascinating insight into the mind of this man. >> i want to play one of the interviews you had with him, and we'll talk on the other side. >> well it was the same day, but it was a day where there was great anger in our country. people went to washington primarily because they were angry with an election they think was raked. it very small portion went down to the capitol. and then a very small portion

of them went in. but i will tell you, we they were angry from the standpoint of what's happened in the election, because they're smart and they see and they saw what happened. i believe that that was a big part of what happened on january 6th. >> so, you actually told new york magazine that the former president believed his own life. he went on to say this. there was no way to have a rational conversation with him, the position he gave to me is someone who's utterly irrational, someone living in an alternative reality, and there was no way to have a coherent, rational conversation. talk to me as you have seen more footage, more evidence from the january six committee emerge, it specially after spending so much time with him. how do you put it all together? >> in some ways, i put it together in the sense that this man is somebody who quotes his own agenda, attach detached from reality.

he's a very -- he's talked about the sanctity of his election. back in 2016, that famous moment after the, debate hillary clinton, he said he would accept the 2016 presidential election only if he wins. playing this very dangerous game for a very long time. then when i finally came to actually he lost, this idea, an objective defeat for donald trump is something you can't accept. he's always blamed other people throughout his entire life. during his financial issues, bankruptcy, issues et cetera, it was always somebody else's fault. he never took his own responsibility. and some ways he's always gotten away with. in this particular case, the objective scenario that he, lost is that he lost the 2020 election, that's something that doesn't compute. because trump in the brand, all that matters to him is not something that can link to defeat. so we had to then do the very thing which, i've been saying for a long, time it wasn't a

real defeat in fact, in fact he did win the election he says. there is no evidence to support this. it became quite clear to me after having met him, both in the white house as and as the as the incumbent president, and thereafter, worry absolutely -- so much so that he believes it. that is terrifying. when you are the commander-in-chief of the united states of america, and you are sitting in the white house, looking in the five -- five days after his own attorney general said there was no evidence, and he maintains his own position, and actually coming up with his own solutions to allow him to perpetrate a fraud. >> so when it comes to this possible criminal charge of defrauding the american people, dividing the country, you actually believe the former president believed what he was saying? that in fact he won this

election even though his own attorney general told me did not? >> so, i'm not a lawyer, but i can say this. -- if somebody thinks they are their bank's overcharged number $500, and they're actually convinced of that position, they can't then go get their friends to break into chase bank and take the money. the he may believe it, but it doesn't make any difference at this moment or not. -- for me, the point of him believing it is nothing to do whether or not he's trying to defended the position, there is no defense. the guy said something that was untrue. it escalated to the extent where people march to washington, d.c., and invaded the american capital and people died. any attempt to day, attempted to assassinate his own vice president based on this lie, and as we said before, he has

completely accepts this. -- he actually said in mar-a-lago that those people who wanted were angry because the he believes the election were stolen. well he was the one that told them the election was stolen, which is why he went out in the first. place the reason why i think it's important, at least my interpretation of, it is that he believes in the sly, is that it's somebody you cannot rationalize. with it's somebody's he is not possible to have a real conversation. with and for the commander-in-chief of the country, that is something dangerous and terrifying. >> alex holder, the documentaries unprecedented, we thank you for joining us. coming up everybody, a lot of very personal calls over the radio, there were calls to say goodbye to family members and so on and so forth. security officials fearing for their lives as republicans like

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thursday night, there was a slight moment of unexpected levity. it came courtesy of this clip highlighting the actions of republican senator josh hawley. >> senator josh hawley also had to flee. early that afternoon, before the joint session started, he walked across the east front of the capitol. but as you can see in this photo, he raised his fist and solidarity with the protesters, already amassing at the security gates. we spoke with the capitol police officer, who is out there at the time. she told us that senator hawley's gesture riled up the crowd. and it bothers her greatly. because he was doing it in a

safe space, protected by the officers and the barriers. later that day, senator hawley fled, after those protesters he helped to royal up stormed the capitol. see for yourself. but >> that cliff got this reaction inside the chamber. [laughs] okay, don't feel too bad for hally. despite being wildly mocked by late night comics, online as well, he is fundraising off of it, vowing not to run from

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and then worked around the clock to overturn election results. after the same top aide told him it was illegal to do so. the committee also uncovering evidence that trump's calls to supporters to march to the capitol was in fact, premeditated. former aide cassidy hutchinson even saying the mob was armed but sent them anyway, hoping to join him at the capitol, but when he was stopped from doing so, the former president spent those 187 minutes watching fox news as he delayed action. his campaign manager ultimately blaming him for the death on january six. this is just a snapshot. we've already learned just how much of an impact this is had on the people of trump in his orbit targeted, from everyday people like election workers, to top politicians. i want to listen to some of the testimony. >> it's turn my life upside down. don't i no longer give up my

business card, transfer calls. i don't want anyone knowing my name. i don't go anywhere with my mom because she might yell my name over the grocery aisle or something. i've been been anywhere at all. i gained about 60 pounds. i just don't do anything anymore. >> they've had panel trucks proclaiming need to be a pedophiles, a pervert, a corrupt politician. >> i saw friends with blood all over their faces. i was sleeping in peoples blood. i was catching people as they fell. the threats became much more specific. much more graphic. and included not just me by

name, but included members of my family, my name, their ages, their address, pictures of her home. >> some people broke into my daughter's house is home. my son is passed, she's a widow, and has two kids, and we're concerned about her safety. also >> basically our last job since this all happened. pretty much sold my house. so, everything that's happened, with the charges, thank a lot of them did get dismissed. but i was just holding my phone, but at the same time i was there. so it definitely changed my life, you know? not for the good. definitely not for the better. >> all right, let's talk big picture, here. i want to bring back my panel

msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschner, and -- glenn let's get into this, the question, whether the former president will be held accountable, two charges they could feasibly be weight here from my understanding, obstruction of proceedings, and conspiracy to defraud the united states. talk to me about the considerations that go into deciding whether you move forward and criminal charge a former president, and if in fact the case is airtight as a federal rule prosecutor? >> no cases ever airtight. sometimes federal prosecutors pause, in my opinion, a little too long. before they decide to bring charges. there is a fear of failure. there's a fear of embarrassment. there's a concern that if federal prosecutors bring a case, they wanted to be airtight, they wanted to be bulletproof. no cases bulletproof. but i maintain no case is more important than one against a former president who committed

any number of offenses. we can talk about the two you just mentioned. i think there are more. supported by the evidence, and by the revelations in recent weeks from the j select committee. nothing is more important than holding donald trump accountable for these crimes, primarily because if the department of justice gives him a pass, if they decline to hold him accountable, then in a very real sense that's the doj giving its stamp of approval to everything donald trump did, and it's giving permission, even encouragement, to the next presidential candidate to replicate it all in their seal. to acquire power, and yasmin, i don't think the country can survive another go around like we've just been through. >> but they must be considering, if they move forward, and they lose, the consequences of that. because, as you say, it's not necessarily airtight, yet, by

the way. they're not done. they had january six committee investigation is not done. but that consideration has to be there. >> it is there, and what i always taught my federal homicide prosecutors that are supervised, when i was chief of homicide at the d.c. attorney's office is that it's more important to try cases than to win cases. if you try a righteous case, one that supported by the evidence, you are sending a message, that if we have enough evidence to charge, we're going to bring that charge. we are going to force you to stand trial. we're gonna do our level best to convict you and hold you accountable for your crimes. if you happen to win, either a hung jury, because the jurors can't unanimously agree on your guilt, or an acquittal, we have still done our job. the system hasn't failed. but the system fails when we have enough evidence to bring a charge, and we decline to bring it because of the collateral consequences of losing. that's not where the system

needs to operate. >> miles taylor, talk to me about the political implications of not moving forward in criminal legal charging the former president. i know you've written about not holding mark meadows accountable, that was a mistake by the doj. i think doj should be looking at meadows for the crime of contempt of congress, but also the federal offense of accessory after the fact, and miss prison of a felony. that was glenn kershner -- that was not miles taylor, excuse me. so glen -- go ahead. except take it. >> glands are master of his craft, and i will take credit for everything he writes, going forward. thanks for putting that in my voice. but really has been, one thing i would say is i've got a side with glenn on this. i think it's really likely we're gonna see something. just look at the words that the attorney general has used. he has called this the most important investigation in the history of the department of

justice. that's not insignificant. that really signals that the attorney general feels like this is gonna go to the top. i would be stunned if they do not bring charges further up the chain. however, i've set for a very long time that we can't count on the justice department to hold trump accountable. we've spent years fantasizing about doj, or congress, or trump's own cabinet following through with the fifth amendment. all of whom have laid us down. the founders indicated that it was peoples themselves, the democratic process that we could use to hold people accountable. the solution is that we don't let trump come back to elected office. trump's biggest fear is losing. right now he's losing with independence, yasmin, he's losing with republicans and -- he's losing it with his own loyalists. if you look at independence, these hearings have actually had an impact. they're breaking in favor of people believing that january six was an insurrection and a

threat to democracy, especially out among independents. republicans are increasingly saying they want to see someone other than donald trump, which has his and his team very worried. finally, when it comes to his only, as he's seeing some of the people he's counted on the most to come out against. from the political standpoint, the ex president is losing. that's ultimately what's going to save the country from a second term of donald trump. >> miles taylor, thank you, glenn kirschner thank you as well for lending your voice to miles taylor on that one. by the way, don't forget to catch the full eight hearing, again tonight, it's gonna be reassured in its entirety right here on msnbc at 7 pm eastern. you can also hearing to -- listen to all hearings a podcast episodes -- scan the cure code on the screen, and you'll be brought to rachael maddow's podcast where they can be found. coming up in the next hour, americans killed in ukraine. we're live in the capital city of kyiv, with more details on

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